From sundaram at redhat.com Tue Nov 1 00:49:38 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 06:19:38 +0530 Subject: Fedora user testimonials In-Reply-To: <3ea997540510242002v4d574e90q7314b0c220c3d371@mail.gmail.com> References: <3ea997540510242002v4d574e90q7314b0c220c3d371@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4366BBA2.5020902@redhat.com> John Mahowald wrote: >I propose collecting user testimonials as a way to promote Fedora. >Actual people commenting on their experience can be a powerful >persuader. > >Of course these would have to be anonymous unless otherwise specified. > > Anonymous testimonals might get complaints of being faked. Otherwise a good idea. >Ways of collecting them could include an email address, web >forum/comment form, etc. > > Are you willing to do this? regards Rahul From gdk at redhat.com Tue Nov 1 15:48:41 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 10:48:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Talking Points Message-ID: OK, gang. I'm working on a set of talking points for Fedora. Think of these as "sound bites". Imagine having a deck of cards, each with a few sentences, each of which describes an important Fedora message. Here's the start: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/TalkingPoints I could really use some help. Either: a. Fix a FIXME; or b. Add a talking point that you think is vitally important. Remember: NO MORE THAN A SHORT PARAGRAPH, unless you ABSOLUTELY can't help yourself, in which case I'll probably edit it down brutally. :) --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan From jpmahowald at gmail.com Tue Nov 1 17:08:04 2005 From: jpmahowald at gmail.com (John Mahowald) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 11:08:04 -0600 Subject: Fedora user testimonials In-Reply-To: <4366BBA2.5020902@redhat.com> References: <3ea997540510242002v4d574e90q7314b0c220c3d371@mail.gmail.com> <4366BBA2.5020902@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3ea997540511010908y1b3754dau827826d7775761ce@mail.gmail.com> On 10/31/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Are you willing to do this? > Yes, I will persue a public page on the wiki. From chitlesh at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 12:50:12 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 12:50:12 +0000 Subject: let's do marketing in Strasbourg ! Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511030450h56dc575fye18eb15a6a3f85ed@mail.gmail.com> Hai there, I read a linux magazine. In this particular magazine, it compared between some various Linux OS. In the fedora section, it identifies fedora as a least-stable OS of any RPM Based OS. And fedora has not yet really impressed europeans. In my local LUG , im the only one with the FC OS, most of them are using debian based OS. We are planning in this february an "OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE DAY" on 5-7 May 2006. similar to the german's "LINUXTAG". Im not yet communicated about the amount of money being invested. In June 2005, in karlsruhe there was a linuxtag. And fedora core was part of the red-hat advertissement team. some developpers were present. Since i stated before (from the particular magazine) that fedora core has not yet impressed europeans, I wonder if there is a way to advertise fedora core. I mean if i can ask some kind of association/company to send me free stickers or any promotional material associated to FC to this open source event. Yes, I live in France (Strasbourg ). I wish to know a little more about how it goes with the invitation of the FC developpers and Marketing teams to our event knowing the fact that we don't have a big budget, so that I could talk to the other members of my lug about my plan to have a Fedora Core booth with real FC developpers and Marketing teams. The presence of a Fedora Core booth (even if its with the Red Hat Team) could really attract and make aware to the public that Fedora Core is not only a platform for developping the RHEL. Thanks Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gerold at lugd.org Thu Nov 3 13:48:01 2005 From: gerold at lugd.org (Gerold Kassube) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:48:01 +0100 Subject: let's do marketing in Strasbourg ! In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0511030450h56dc575fye18eb15a6a3f85ed@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0511030450h56dc575fye18eb15a6a3f85ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1131025681.2865.15.camel@NB-Fedora.homenet.local> Excuse, ... but the next LINUXTAG in Karlsruhe -just as information- will be held from May 3rd till May 6th 2006 in WIESBADEN instead of Karlsruhe as you can read on the homepage of the "Linuxtag" (http://www.linuxtag.org/2006/) .... Just because of your planing in France. Kind regards Gerold Linux Usergroup Loerrach e.V. http://www.lug-loerrach.de > We are planning in this february an "OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE DAY" on 5-7 > May 2006. similar to the german's "LINUXTAG". Im not yet communicated > about the amount of money being invested. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From chitlesh at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 13:52:03 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 13:52:03 +0000 Subject: let's do marketing in Strasbourg ! In-Reply-To: <1131025681.2865.15.camel@NB-Fedora.homenet.local> References: <13dbfe4f0511030450h56dc575fye18eb15a6a3f85ed@mail.gmail.com> <1131025681.2865.15.camel@NB-Fedora.homenet.local> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511030552w311b69fax437654e08533c810@mail.gmail.com> On 11/3/05, Gerold Kassube wrote: > > Excuse, ... > but the next LINUXTAG in Karlsruhe -just as information- will be held > from May 3rd till May 6th 2006 in WIESBADEN instead of Karlsruhe as you > can read on the homepage of the > "Linuxtag" (http://www.linuxtag.org/2006/) .... > Just because of your planing in France. > Kind regards > Gerold Thanks; one of my lug members pointed that to me too:) till we manage to schedule a date for our event, let's talk about what can be done in respect to do marketing for FC :) Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Nov 3 19:36:39 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 11:36:39 -0800 Subject: Fedora websites team Message-ID: <1131046599.5130.12.camel@erato.phig.org> We have formed the Fedora websites team, which discusses things on fedora-websites-list[1]. Some have asked me who really owns/controls the websites. Is Marketing accountable? Documentation? How about Infrastructure? Here's how I see it, using this model: * FDP is the umbrella project that is accountable for all content and knowledge management across Fedora. We are growing as fast as we can to cover all these areas. * Marketing is accountable for our message, focus, goals, direction, attitude, etc. As such, they are often responsible for the content and design within the various formal Fedora sites[2]. * Infrastructure is responsible for maintaining the current backends of the sites, and developing new stuff from their own ideas and as responses to RFEs that are filtered to them by FDP and Marketing. Does this make sense to you all? Other thoughts? cheers - Karsten [1] http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list This list is for developers, maintainers, designers, and content managers to discuss the various formal Fedora sites. [2] Formal being a better word than 'official', and the formal sites right now are fedora.redhat.com and fedoraproject.org. -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Fri Nov 4 01:01:18 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 06:31:18 +0530 Subject: Kennards shifts 400 desktops to Linux (Fedora) Message-ID: <436AB2DE.3060208@redhat.com> Hi Yet another big Fedora deployment "Holmwood wrote that the full rollout will take place in January and will involve more than 400 machines running Fedora Linux on the desktop across about 80 branches nationally. The Fedora Project is a community-driven Linux distribution started by Red Hat. Although not supported by Red Hat, company engineers work on Fedora, which is "one of the sources for new technologies and enhancements that may be incorporated into Red Hat Enterprise Linux in the future", according to the project's Web site." http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?id=1767259526&eid=-255 regards Rahul From marc.w at smlintl.com.au Fri Nov 4 05:54:04 2005 From: marc.w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 13:54:04 +0800 Subject: Kennards shifts 400 desktops to Linux (Fedora) In-Reply-To: <436AB2DE.3060208@redhat.com> References: <436AB2DE.3060208@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1131083644.18361.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> One of the few progressive companies in Australia that is doing it well. I have personally used them a fair bit and can honestly say when it comes to progression this is a company that looks forward. Regards, Marc On Fri, 2005-11-04 at 06:31 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Yet another big Fedora deployment > > "Holmwood wrote that the full rollout will take place in January and > will involve more than 400 machines running Fedora Linux on the desktop > across about 80 branches nationally. > > The Fedora Project is a community-driven Linux distribution started by > Red Hat. Although not supported by Red Hat, company engineers work on > Fedora, which is "one of the sources for new technologies and > enhancements that may be incorporated into Red Hat Enterprise Linux in > the future", according to the project's Web site." > > http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?id=1767259526&eid=-255 > > regards > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list From sgk284 at gmail.com Fri Nov 4 15:18:00 2005 From: sgk284 at gmail.com (Stephen Krenzel) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 10:18:00 -0500 Subject: Kennards shifts 400 desktops to Linux (Fedora) In-Reply-To: <1131083644.18361.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <436AB2DE.3060208@redhat.com> <1131083644.18361.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1fa01fe80511040718w41a1303fy6526b79524fe30f3@mail.gmail.com> Submitted the story to slashdot, I guess we'll see if it gets through. Regards, Steve On 11/4/05, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > One of the few progressive companies in Australia that is doing it well. > I have personally used them a fair bit and can honestly say when it > comes to progression this is a company that looks forward. > > Regards, > > Marc > On Fri, 2005-11-04 at 06:31 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > > > Yet another big Fedora deployment > > > > "Holmwood wrote that the full rollout will take place in January and > > will involve more than 400 machines running Fedora Linux on the desktop > > across about 80 branches nationally. > > > > The Fedora Project is a community-driven Linux distribution started by > > Red Hat. Although not supported by Red Hat, company engineers work on > > Fedora, which is "one of the sources for new technologies and > > enhancements that may be incorporated into Red Hat Enterprise Linux in > > the future", according to the project's Web site." > > > > http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?id=1767259526&eid=-255 > > > > regards > > Rahul > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Fri Nov 4 21:19:05 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 02:49:05 +0530 Subject: Kennards shifts 400 desktops to Linux (Fedora) In-Reply-To: <1fa01fe80511040718w41a1303fy6526b79524fe30f3@mail.gmail.com> References: <436AB2DE.3060208@redhat.com> <1131083644.18361.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1fa01fe80511040718w41a1303fy6526b79524fe30f3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <436BD049.9010401@redhat.com> Stephen Krenzel wrote: > Submitted the story to slashdot, I guess we'll see if it gets through. > Regards, > Steve Hi Steve, Thanks. Other news sites which can be used to spread the news http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/SpreadingNews regards Rahul From sundaram at redhat.com Sat Nov 5 12:42:59 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 18:12:59 +0530 Subject: Fedora websites team In-Reply-To: <1131046599.5130.12.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1131046599.5130.12.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <436CA8D3.9070107@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: >We have formed the Fedora websites team, which discusses things on >fedora-websites-list[1]. > >Some have asked me who really owns/controls the websites. Is Marketing >accountable? Documentation? How about Infrastructure? > >Here's how I see it, using this model: > >* FDP is the umbrella project that is accountable for all content and >knowledge management across Fedora. We are growing as fast as we can to >cover all these areas. > >* Marketing is accountable for our message, focus, goals, direction, >attitude, etc. As such, they are often responsible for the content and >design within the various formal Fedora sites[2]. > >* Infrastructure is responsible for maintaining the current backends of >the sites, and developing new stuff from their own ideas and as >responses to RFEs that are filtered to them by FDP and Marketing. > >Does this make sense to you all? > >Other thoughts? > > We need a concrete list of things we need to do before making http://fedoraproject.org the primary website and a transition plan from http://fedora.redhat.com with redirects where necessary.Some of the content in the wiki pages belongs to marketing and some to docs and some are in the Fedora communities's hands. We need to find out a list of wiki pages maintained and unmaintained (if any). Thats the action plan. Interested people get yourself subscribed to the fedora-websites list and post suggestions and feedback. Do we need better content? better design? a combination of both or something else entirely? regards Rahu; From sundaram at redhat.com Sat Nov 5 12:44:55 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 18:14:55 +0530 Subject: Talking Points In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <436CA947.2070606@redhat.com> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: >OK, gang. I'm working on a set of talking points for Fedora. Think of >these as "sound bites". Imagine having a deck of cards, each with a few >sentences, each of which describes an important Fedora message. > >Here's the start: > >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/TalkingPoints > >I could really use some help. > > You got it. I fixed the "FIXME's" and put in references or created new ones as appropriate. Review it. Spice it up more if you want to and Get us the cards ;-) regards Rahul From lxmaier at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 23:06:27 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:06:27 -0500 Subject: Fedora at FOSS.in/2005 In-Reply-To: <4363B524.50300@gmail.com> References: <43639F5D.3030006@gmail.com> <7f617d270510290954r317eaeabt5d70a971b78145d9@mail.gmail.com> <4363B524.50300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270511051506r779c525ctb70e4cd04410d58e@mail.gmail.com> Tejas, all, I have recoverd the files and they are all available again at the FUDCon Karslruhe 2005 page: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDCon2 Sorry about the mixup, won't happen again :) Cheers, a On 10/29/05, Tejas Dinkar wrote: > Alex Maier wrote: > > >Great job Tejas! > > > > > Thanks Alex > > >If you are looking for ready-made presentations and ideas for talks, > >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon > >will help you. > > > >Please follow the links to the individual FUDCons to download slides, > >wherever availabe. > > > >I will gladly go over your slides when you have a draft ready. Simply > >contact me off-list. > > > >Cheers, > >a > > > Unfortunately, all of the links on this page: > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDCon2 > > return a 404 > > Is there anyway I can borrow Mr Warren Togami's Slides (fedora overview) > so that I can base my own on them? > > Thanks Again > Tejas Dinkar > > Perhaps just mail it to this email, if slides are under 10Mb, else put > it up online > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From lxmaier at gmail.com Sun Nov 6 05:01:31 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 00:01:31 -0500 Subject: Press coverage of Fedora Message-ID: <7f617d270511052101u48395a61h29412a884a826e9f@mail.gmail.com> Hey folks, Here is what I've done: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/PressArchive If you see media covering us, please post a link to the article, a webcast, etc to this page! Thank you, Alex -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From lxmaier at gmail.com Sun Nov 6 16:15:08 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 11:15:08 -0500 Subject: How about in Strasbourg ? In-Reply-To: <436E0157.7090700@yahoo.com.au> References: <436E0157.7090700@yahoo.com.au> Message-ID: <7f617d270511060815p1c3907d6k285c03fca90cb1bf@mail.gmail.com> Chitesh, Thank you very much for your request. If you wish to represent Fedora to Europeans and to French people in particular, this can be arranged :) You can become Fedora Ambassador and we will help you out with materials as far as we can. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Ambassadors http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/HowTo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Conduct Please read the HowTo page carefully and be sure you have the time and resources to be an Ambassador. If you think you are up for it, please send me an email off-list and I will get you all set up. Please also pay special attention to who else is already active in your region. You may want to get in touch with them for guidance as you get started. Thank you, Alex On 11/6/05, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > Hai there, > my profile in brief can be found at : > http://fedoranews.org/mediawiki/index.php/Chitlesh_Goorah > Well its not the first that im in search for information how to market > fedora in France. > below is what i wrote to fedora-marketing list, but no one answered to me: > > I read a linux magazine. In this particular magazine, it compared between > some various Linux OS. > In the fedora section, it identifies fedora as a least-stable OS of any RPM > Based OS. > And fedora has not yet really impressed europeans. > In my local LUG, im the only one with the FC OS, most of them are using > debian based OS. > We are planning in this february an "OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE DAY" on 5-7 May > 2006. similar to the german's "LINUXTAG". Im not yet communicated about the > amount of money being invested. > > In June 2005, in karlsruhe there was a linuxtag. And fedora core was part > of the red-hat advertissement team. some developpers were present. Since i > stated before (from the particular magazine) that fedora core has not yet > impressed europeans, I wonder if there is a way to advertise fedora core. I > mean if i can ask some kind of association/company to send me free stickers > or any promotional material associated to FC to this open source event. > > Yes, I live in France (Strasbourg ). > I wish to know a little more about how it goes with the invitation of the > FC developpers and Marketing teams to our event knowing the fact that we > don't have a big budget, so that I could talk to the other members of my lug > about my plan to have a Fedora Core booth with real FC developpers and > Marketing teams. > > The presence of a Fedora Core booth (even if its with the Red Hat Team) > could really attract and make aware to the public that Fedora Core is not > only a platform for developping the RHEL. > I did wrote to > http://forums.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=83407 > > till you have any suggestions to help me with it > Thanks > Chitlesh GOORAH > > ps: the schedule days for the event day is conflicting with the linuxtag in > Wiesbaden, so consider it as temporary > -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From lxmaier at gmail.com Sun Nov 6 16:44:24 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 11:44:24 -0500 Subject: Kennards shifts 400 desktops to Linux (Fedora) In-Reply-To: <436BD049.9010401@redhat.com> References: <436AB2DE.3060208@redhat.com> <1131083644.18361.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1fa01fe80511040718w41a1303fy6526b79524fe30f3@mail.gmail.com> <436BD049.9010401@redhat.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270511060844q51d2cb57obd36b002f1999dee@mail.gmail.com> I have also started a page where you can post links to news coverag of Fedora: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/PressArchive Kennards story is up there already :) Cheers, a On 11/4/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Stephen Krenzel wrote: > > > Submitted the story to slashdot, I guess we'll see if it gets through. > > Regards, > > Steve > > Hi Steve, > > Thanks. Other news sites which can be used to spread the news > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/SpreadingNews > > regards > Rahul > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From lxmaier at gmail.com Sun Nov 6 17:10:29 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 12:10:29 -0500 Subject: Fedora user testimonials In-Reply-To: <3ea997540511010908y1b3754dau827826d7775761ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <3ea997540510242002v4d574e90q7314b0c220c3d371@mail.gmail.com> <4366BBA2.5020902@redhat.com> <3ea997540511010908y1b3754dau827826d7775761ce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270511060910o413e5f94o603a09be3852ed3c@mail.gmail.com> Please add your user testimonials to this page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/UserTestimonials Two little rules: 1. Spell-check your post and read it twice before posting! 2. If you want to post a story already in existence on other site, please LINK to it, but do not copy-paste the story on the page. Thank you, Alex On 11/1/05, John Mahowald wrote: > On 10/31/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Are you willing to do this? > > > > Yes, I will persue a public page on the wiki. > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From nman64 at n-man.com Sun Nov 6 17:46:08 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 11:46:08 -0600 Subject: Fedora user testimonials In-Reply-To: <7f617d270511060910o413e5f94o603a09be3852ed3c@mail.gmail.com> References: <3ea997540510242002v4d574e90q7314b0c220c3d371@mail.gmail.com> <4366BBA2.5020902@redhat.com> <3ea997540511010908y1b3754dau827826d7775761ce@mail.gmail.com> <7f617d270511060910o413e5f94o603a09be3852ed3c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <436E4160.2020607@n-man.com> Alex Maier wrote: > Please add your user testimonials to this page: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/UserTestimonials > > Two little rules: > > 1. Spell-check your post and read it twice before posting! > 2. If you want to post a story already in existence on other site, > please LINK to it, but do not copy-paste the story on the page. > > Thank you, > Alex > > On 11/1/05, John Mahowald wrote: > >> On 10/31/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> >>> Are you willing to do this? >>> >>> >> Yes, I will persue a public page on the wiki. >> >> -- >> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list >> Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list >> >> > > > -- > New content on FUDCon page! > http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon > > FUDCon: > Fedora Users and Developers Conference > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > Hmm, John had already created a stub for such a page at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UserTestimonials. I've redirected that location to this new one. We need to be more careful about duplicating things, though. :-P -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From fedora at leemhuis.info Sun Nov 6 18:30:25 2005 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 19:30:25 +0100 Subject: Navigation in the wiki (Was: Re: Fedora user testimonials) In-Reply-To: <436E4160.2020607@n-man.com> References: <3ea997540510242002v4d574e90q7314b0c220c3d371@mail.gmail.com> <4366BBA2.5020902@redhat.com> <3ea997540511010908y1b3754dau827826d7775761ce@mail.gmail.com> <7f617d270511060910o413e5f94o603a09be3852ed3c@mail.gmail.com> <436E4160.2020607@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1131301825.2808.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Am Sonntag, den 06.11.2005, 11:46 -0600 schrieb Patrick Barnes: > Hmm, John had already created a stub for such a page at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UserTestimonials. I've redirected that > location to this new one. We need to be more careful about duplicating > things, though. :-P Side note: We also need a better Web-Site navigation IMHO -- a sidebar similar to the one on http://fedora.redhat.com/ (or something like that) would be very helpful. Even I sometimes can't find information in the wiki even if I know they are there somewhere. Just my 2 cent. -- Thorsten Leemhuis From nman64 at n-man.com Sun Nov 6 18:33:30 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 12:33:30 -0600 Subject: Navigation in the wiki (Was: Re: Fedora user testimonials) In-Reply-To: <1131301825.2808.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3ea997540510242002v4d574e90q7314b0c220c3d371@mail.gmail.com> <4366BBA2.5020902@redhat.com> <3ea997540511010908y1b3754dau827826d7775761ce@mail.gmail.com> <7f617d270511060910o413e5f94o603a09be3852ed3c@mail.gmail.com> <436E4160.2020607@n-man.com> <1131301825.2808.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <436E4C7A.2070200@n-man.com> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > Am Sonntag, den 06.11.2005, 11:46 -0600 schrieb Patrick Barnes: > >> Hmm, John had already created a stub for such a page at >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UserTestimonials. I've redirected that >> location to this new one. We need to be more careful about duplicating >> things, though. :-P >> > > Side note: We also need a better Web-Site navigation IMHO -- a sidebar > similar to the one on http://fedora.redhat.com/ (or something like that) > would be very helpful. Even I sometimes can't find information in the > wiki even if I know they are there somewhere. > > Just my 2 cent. > That's one of the first items on the agenda when the new fedora-websites-list is working properly. The issue of difficult navigation of the wiki hierarchy will be addressed. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lxmaier at gmail.com Sun Nov 6 18:56:57 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 13:56:57 -0500 Subject: Navigation in the wiki (Was: Re: Fedora user testimonials) In-Reply-To: <1131301825.2808.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3ea997540510242002v4d574e90q7314b0c220c3d371@mail.gmail.com> <4366BBA2.5020902@redhat.com> <3ea997540511010908y1b3754dau827826d7775761ce@mail.gmail.com> <7f617d270511060910o413e5f94o603a09be3852ed3c@mail.gmail.com> <436E4160.2020607@n-man.com> <1131301825.2808.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <7f617d270511061056k5ca323d6y76ebe75e124c4e9@mail.gmail.com> +1 At the moment our only hope is to group pages under the categories, such as Marketing Marketing/Press Marketing/Ambassadors etc. As soon as a page is out there "by itself," its chances of being found rapidly decline. a On 11/6/05, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > Am Sonntag, den 06.11.2005, 11:46 -0600 schrieb Patrick Barnes: > > Hmm, John had already created a stub for such a page at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UserTestimonials. I've redirected that > > location to this new one. We need to be more careful about duplicating > > things, though. :-P > > Side note: We also need a better Web-Site navigation IMHO -- a sidebar > similar to the one on http://fedora.redhat.com/ (or something like that) > would be very helpful. Even I sometimes can't find information in the > wiki even if I know they are there somewhere. > > Just my 2 cent. > -- > Thorsten Leemhuis > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 7 01:14:24 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 06:44:24 +0530 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one Message-ID: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> Hi Here is a set of modifications of the first proposal and a new one by Diana Fong http://www.isity.net/appeal/ Courtesy: http://fedoraproject.org/people regards Rahul From jkeating at j2solutions.net Mon Nov 7 01:50:30 2005 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 17:50:30 -0800 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1131328231.3195.24.camel@yoda.loki.me> On Mon, 2005-11-07 at 06:44 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Here is a set of modifications of the first proposal and a new one by > Diana Fong > > http://www.isity.net/appeal/ I like some of the alterations. The Feather though, Feather Linux uses almost that exact same feather as the background of their logo. I wouldn't want to confuse the issue. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 7 01:55:01 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 07:25:01 +0530 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <1131328231.3195.24.camel@yoda.loki.me> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <1131328231.3195.24.camel@yoda.loki.me> Message-ID: <436EB3F5.1070704@redhat.com> Jesse Keating wrote: >On Mon, 2005-11-07 at 06:44 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > >>Hi >> >>Here is a set of modifications of the first proposal and a new one by >>Diana Fong >> >>http://www.isity.net/appeal/ >> >> > >I like some of the alterations. The Feather though, Feather Linux uses >almost that exact same feather as the background of their logo. I >wouldn't want to confuse the issue. > > > Never heard of Feather Linux before but if you are talking about this one http://featherlinux.berlios.de/ , they dont seem to be using a feather but a variation of tux. regards Rahul From jkeating at j2solutions.net Mon Nov 7 02:03:07 2005 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 18:03:07 -0800 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <436EB3F5.1070704@redhat.com> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <1131328231.3195.24.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB3F5.1070704@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1131328987.3195.26.camel@yoda.loki.me> On Mon, 2005-11-07 at 07:25 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Never heard of Feather Linux before but if you are talking about this > one http://featherlinux.berlios.de/ , they dont seem to be using a > feather but a variation of tux. > Look to the right of Tux (: -- Jesse Keating RHCE (geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 7 02:05:40 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 07:35:40 +0530 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <1131328987.3195.26.camel@yoda.loki.me> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <1131328231.3195.24.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB3F5.1070704@redhat.com> <1131328987.3195.26.camel@yoda.loki.me> Message-ID: <436EB674.7010008@redhat.com> Jesse Keating wrote: >On Mon, 2005-11-07 at 07:25 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > >>Never heard of Feather Linux before but if you are talking about this >>one http://featherlinux.berlios.de/ , they dont seem to be using a >>feather but a variation of tux. >> >> >> > >Look to the right of Tux (: > > > Thats barely visible. While we have to avoid confusion with other projects, we cant choose to use any elements at all if we are going to nit pick at this level. regards Rahul From jspaleta at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 02:15:11 2005 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:15:11 -0500 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <436EB674.7010008@redhat.com> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <1131328231.3195.24.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB3F5.1070704@redhat.com> <1131328987.3195.26.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB674.7010008@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910511061815n3cc64a3epe73820dbe9f0095@mail.gmail.com> On 11/6/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Thats barely visible. While we have to avoid confusion with other > projects, we cant choose to use any elements at all if we are going to > nit pick at this level. how about instead we just keep dragging this process out..with more and more ideas... every month..a new logo idea. At some point we have to stop searching for the perfect logo and just move on with a logo that is "good enough". In my mind the feather is a non-starter.. simply because its too damn late in the process to keep brainstorming more "new" ideas. How about we focus on the presented modifications and alternations to "f is for frelling freedom" draft that takes up the top part of the page and just forget the feather is there at all. -jef"I'm just thankful you didn't post a link to the jackass mascot logo idea"spaleta From luya at jpopmail.com Mon Nov 7 04:41:04 2005 From: luya at jpopmail.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 20:41:04 -0800 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one Message-ID: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> Problem is the symbol does not really attract anyone. We have seen the reactions on fedoraforum.org. I even show it to my family and friend, overall they didn't like it. We are on November yet there is no other draft available before Fedora Core 5 Test 2. Making a set of three or five logo drafts would be a better way to receive a feedback then choose to enhance that draft. ----- Original Message ----- From: fedora-marketing-list-request at redhat.com To: fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com Subject: Fedora-marketing-list Digest, Vol 17, Issue 6 Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 12:00:05 -0500 (EST) > > Send Fedora-marketing-list mailing list submissions to > fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fedora-marketing-list-request at redhat.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > fedora-marketing-list-owner at redhat.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Fedora-marketing-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Fedora at FOSS.in/2005 (Alex Maier) > 2. Press coverage of Fedora (Alex Maier) > 3. Re: How about in Strasbourg ? (Alex Maier) > 4. Re: Kennards shifts 400 desktops to Linux (Fedora) (Alex Maier) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:06:27 -0500 > From: Alex Maier > Subject: Re: Fedora at FOSS.in/2005 > To: Discussions on expanding the Fedora user base > > Message-ID: > <7f617d270511051506r779c525ctb70e4cd04410d58e at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Tejas, > all, > > I have recoverd the files and they are all available again at the > FUDCon Karslruhe 2005 page: > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDCon2 > > Sorry about the mixup, won't happen again :) > > Cheers, > a > > On 10/29/05, Tejas Dinkar wrote: > > Alex Maier wrote: > > > > >Great job Tejas! > > > > > > > > Thanks Alex > > > > >If you are looking for ready-made presentations and ideas for talks, > > >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon > > >will help you. > > > > > >Please follow the links to the individual FUDCons to download slides, > > >wherever availabe. > > > > > >I will gladly go over your slides when you have a draft ready. Simply > > >contact me off-list. > > > > > >Cheers, > > >a > > > > > Unfortunately, all of the links on this page: > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDCon2 > > > > return a 404 > > > > Is there anyway I can borrow Mr Warren Togami's Slides (fedora overview) > > so that I can base my own on them? > > > > Thanks Again > > Tejas Dinkar > > > > Perhaps just mail it to this email, if slides are under 10Mb, else put > > it up online > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > -- > New content on FUDCon page! > http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon > > FUDCon: > Fedora Users and Developers Conference > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 00:01:31 -0500 > From: Alex Maier > Subject: Press coverage of Fedora > To: Discussions on expanding the Fedora user base > > Message-ID: > <7f617d270511052101u48395a61h29412a884a826e9f at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hey folks, > > Here is what I've done: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/PressArchive > > If you see media covering us, please post a link to the article, a > webcast, etc to this page! > > Thank you, > Alex > > -- > New content on FUDCon page! > http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon > > FUDCon: > Fedora Users and Developers Conference > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 11:15:08 -0500 > From: Alex Maier > Subject: Re: How about in Strasbourg ? > To: Chitlesh GOORAH , Discussions on expanding > the Fedora user base > Message-ID: > <7f617d270511060815p1c3907d6k285c03fca90cb1bf at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Chitesh, > > Thank you very much for your request. If you wish to represent Fedora > to Europeans and to French people in particular, this can be arranged > :) > > You can become Fedora Ambassador and we will help you out with > materials as far as we can. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Ambassadors > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/HowTo > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Conduct > > Please read the HowTo page carefully and be sure you have the time and > resources to be an Ambassador. If you think you are up for it, please > send me an email off-list and I will get you all set up. > > Please also pay special attention to who else is already active in > your region. You may want to get in touch with them for guidance as > you get started. > > Thank you, > Alex > > On 11/6/05, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > Hai there, > > my profile in brief can be found at : > > http://fedoranews.org/mediawiki/index.php/Chitlesh_Goorah > > Well its not the first that im in search for information how to market > > fedora in France. > > below is what i wrote to fedora-marketing list, but no one answered to me: > > > > I read a linux magazine. In this particular magazine, it compared between > > some various Linux OS. > > In the fedora section, it identifies fedora as a least-stable OS of any RPM > > Based OS. > > And fedora has not yet really impressed europeans. > > In my local LUG, im the only one with the FC OS, most of them are using > > debian based OS. > > We are planning in this february an "OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE DAY" on 5-7 May > > 2006. similar to the german's "LINUXTAG". Im not yet communicated about the > > amount of money being invested. > > > > In June 2005, in karlsruhe there was a linuxtag. And fedora core was part > > of the red-hat advertissement team. some developpers were present. Since i > > stated before (from the particular magazine) that fedora core has not yet > > impressed europeans, I wonder if there is a way to advertise fedora core. I > > mean if i can ask some kind of association/company to send me free stickers > > or any promotional material associated to FC to this open source event. > > > > Yes, I live in France (Strasbourg ). > > I wish to know a little more about how it goes with the invitation of the > > FC developpers and Marketing teams to our event knowing the fact that we > > don't have a big budget, so that I could talk to the other members of my lug > > about my plan to have a Fedora Core booth with real FC developpers and > > Marketing teams. > > > > The presence of a Fedora Core booth (even if its with the Red Hat Team) > > could really attract and make aware to the public that Fedora Core is not > > only a platform for developping the RHEL. > > I did wrote to > > http://forums.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=83407 > > > > till you have any suggestions to help me with it > > Thanks > > Chitlesh GOORAH > > > > ps: the schedule days for the event day is conflicting with the linuxtag in > > Wiesbaden, so consider it as temporary > > > > > -- > New content on FUDCon page! > http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon > > FUDCon: > Fedora Users and Developers Conference > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 11:44:24 -0500 > From: Alex Maier > Subject: Re: Kennards shifts 400 desktops to Linux (Fedora) > To: Discussions on expanding the Fedora user base > > Message-ID: > <7f617d270511060844q51d2cb57obd36b002f1999dee at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I have also started a page where you can post links to news coverag of Fedora: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/PressArchive > > Kennards story is up there already :) > > Cheers, > a > > On 11/4/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Stephen Krenzel wrote: > > > > > Submitted the story to slashdot, I guess we'll see if it gets through. > > > Regards, > > > Steve > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > Thanks. Other news sites which can be used to spread the news > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/SpreadingNews > > > > regards > > Rahul > > > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > -- > New content on FUDCon page! > http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon > > FUDCon: > Fedora Users and Developers Conference > > > > ------------------------------ > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > End of Fedora-marketing-list Digest, Vol 17, Issue 6 > **************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://mymail.jp.popstarmail.org From tejasdinkar at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 08:26:49 2005 From: tejasdinkar at gmail.com (Tejas Dinkar) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 13:56:49 +0530 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <436EB674.7010008@redhat.com> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <1131328231.3195.24.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB3F5.1070704@redhat.com> <1131328987.3195.26.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB674.7010008@redhat.com> Message-ID: <436F0FC9.3060003@gmail.com> Hmmm, for many people, including myself, feather == Apache, even if the color of the feather is different, as may be the angle. Tejas From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 7 08:33:57 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 14:03:57 +0530 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <436F0FC9.3060003@gmail.com> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <1131328231.3195.24.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB3F5.1070704@redhat.com> <1131328987.3195.26.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB674.7010008@redhat.com> <436F0FC9.3060003@gmail.com> Message-ID: <436F1175.7020309@redhat.com> Tejas Dinkar wrote: > Hmmm, > for many people, including myself, feather == Apache, even if the > color of the feather is different, as may be the angle. > > Tejas I havent heard much about the different modifications to the existing logos. regards Rahul From luya at jpopmail.com Mon Nov 7 08:50:09 2005 From: luya at jpopmail.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 00:50:09 -0800 Subject: Fedora User Testimonials Message-ID: <20051107085009.C12DF23D02@ws5-3.us4.outblaze.com> A fedoraforum.org started the thread on http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=83525 That should be good for the marketing page. -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://mymail.jp.popstarmail.org From jwulf at redhat.com Mon Nov 7 11:09:17 2005 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 21:09:17 +1000 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <604aa7910511061815n3cc64a3epe73820dbe9f0095@mail.gmail.com> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <1131328231.3195.24.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB3F5.1070704@redhat.com> <1131328987.3195.26.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB674.7010008@redhat.com> <604aa7910511061815n3cc64a3epe73820dbe9f0095@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <436F35DD.2010102@redhat.com> > how about instead we just keep dragging this process out..with more > and more ideas... every month..a new logo idea. Are there some links to the other logo ideas? I've seen Diane's and the donkey (I think that was gdk's child), and the capstrat one. That makes three. From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 7 11:13:08 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:43:08 +0530 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <436F35DD.2010102@redhat.com> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <1131328231.3195.24.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB3F5.1070704@redhat.com> <1131328987.3195.26.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB674.7010008@redhat.com> <604aa7910511061815n3cc64a3epe73820dbe9f0095@mail.gmail.com> <436F35DD.2010102@redhat.com> Message-ID: <436F36C4.8030403@redhat.com> Joshua Wulf wrote: > >> how about instead we just keep dragging this process out..with more >> and more ideas... every month..a new logo idea. > > Are there some links to the other logo ideas? I've seen Diane's and > the donkey (I think that was gdk's child), and the capstrat one. That > makes three. Here http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/LogoIdeas This probably doesnt include everything. check this list archives and fedoraforum for others regards Rahul From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Nov 7 12:05:58 2005 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 14:05:58 +0200 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <436F35DD.2010102@redhat.com> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <1131328231.3195.24.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB3F5.1070704@redhat.com> <1131328987.3195.26.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB674.7010008@redhat.com> <604aa7910511061815n3cc64a3epe73820dbe9f0095@mail.gmail.com> <436F35DD.2010102@redhat.com> Message-ID: <436F4326.1000406@nicubunu.ro> Joshua Wulf wrote: > >> how about instead we just keep dragging this process out..with more >> and more ideas... every month..a new logo idea. > > Are there some links to the other logo ideas? I've seen Diane's and the > donkey (I think that was gdk's child), and the capstrat one. That makes > three. Ops! I was sure the donkey was just a joke from reading your blog and that made me to draw the cartoon. -- nicu my hats collection: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/hats Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From lxmaier at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 12:14:08 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 07:14:08 -0500 Subject: Fedora User Testimonials In-Reply-To: <20051107085009.C12DF23D02@ws5-3.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20051107085009.C12DF23D02@ws5-3.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270511070414v7c27f02xfe8135a8e9d4342d@mail.gmail.com> Then add the link to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/UserTestimonials with a brief comment! Cheers, a On 11/7/05, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > A fedoraforum.org started the thread on > http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=83525 > > That should be good for the marketing page. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://mymail.jp.popstarmail.org > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 7 12:40:11 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 18:10:11 +0530 Subject: FUDCon London 2005: Free Software Magazine report Message-ID: <436F4B2B.4040708@redhat.com> Hi If you havent read this already, you should http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/free_issues/newsletters/fudcon/ regards Rahul From jspaleta at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 15:07:27 2005 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:07:27 -0500 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <436F35DD.2010102@redhat.com> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <1131328231.3195.24.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB3F5.1070704@redhat.com> <1131328987.3195.26.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB674.7010008@redhat.com> <604aa7910511061815n3cc64a3epe73820dbe9f0095@mail.gmail.com> <436F35DD.2010102@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910511070707q243c9c4fq9ee36ef0834b32c5@mail.gmail.com> On 11/7/05, Joshua Wulf wrote: > > > how about instead we just keep dragging this process out..with more > > and more ideas... every month..a new logo idea. > Are there some links to the other logo ideas? I've seen Diane's and the > donkey (I think that was gdk's child), and the capstrat one. That makes > three. man, you are extremely late to this party. The logo brainstorming discussion was started on this list in june!!!!!!! The strength of that discussion led to farming out to an actual design team and we got the f is for freedom draft in september. If you missed the brainstorming portion of this process, I'm deeply sorry...but its time to move on. Now that the design group has reported back with a draft, its time to focus on that draft instead of continuing to propose wildly different ideas. From this point in, I consider only discussion which is narrowly focused on the draft design to be constructive. If i see another "this would be a good logo" post without constructive comment aimed at the draft to move the discussion forward.. I will be doing the mailinglist equivalent of ripping out your spleen. Reference on this list, thread from june-july with the subject: Logos: everybody wants one but nobody seems to have any constructive comments. (was Re: Cool Fedora schwag idea) -jef From lxmaier at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 18:22:00 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 13:22:00 -0500 Subject: FUDCon London 2005: Free Software Magazine report In-Reply-To: <436F4B2B.4040708@redhat.com> References: <436F4B2B.4040708@redhat.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270511071022v7dd38157of49cde27940bee44@mail.gmail.com> Rahul, Good catch! Why don't you post it on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/PressArchive Cheers, a On 11/7/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > If you havent read this already, you should > > http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/free_issues/newsletters/fudcon/ > > regards > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From lxmaier at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 20:53:25 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 15:53:25 -0500 Subject: Calling all Ambassadors Message-ID: <7f617d270511071253y1bbdbfb9tba2d6914e49859ff@mail.gmail.com> Hello Ambassadors! As our work group is growing, we have created a special mailing list for us to conduct our business on. Please visit https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list and subscribe to the list. Only approved ambassadors will be subscribed. Thank you, Alex -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From nman64 at n-man.com Mon Nov 7 21:04:22 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:04:22 -0600 Subject: Calling all Ambassadors In-Reply-To: <7f617d270511071253y1bbdbfb9tba2d6914e49859ff@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f617d270511071253y1bbdbfb9tba2d6914e49859ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <436FC156.6060909@n-man.com> Alex Maier wrote: > Hello Ambassadors! > > As our work group is growing, we have created a special mailing list > for us to conduct our business on. > > Please visit https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list > and subscribe to the list. > > Only approved ambassadors will be subscribed. > > Thank you, > Alex > Will subscribers to the old CMC list be mass-subscribed? -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From behdad at cs.toronto.edu Mon Nov 7 21:06:13 2005 From: behdad at cs.toronto.edu (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 16:06:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Calling all Ambassadors In-Reply-To: <7f617d270511071253y1bbdbfb9tba2d6914e49859ff@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f617d270511071253y1bbdbfb9tba2d6914e49859ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Humm, I sent an email to Colin about becoming the first Canadian ambassador with no response.. behdad On Mon, 7 Nov 2005, Alex Maier wrote: > Hello Ambassadors! > > As our work group is growing, we have created a special mailing list > for us to conduct our business on. > > Please visit https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list > and subscribe to the list. > > Only approved ambassadors will be subscribed. > > Thank you, > Alex > > -- > New content on FUDCon page! > http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon > > FUDCon: > Fedora Users and Developers Conference > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > --behdad http://behdad.org/ "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill" -- Dan Bern, "New American Language" From lxmaier at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 21:16:16 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 16:16:16 -0500 Subject: Calling all Ambassadors In-Reply-To: <436FC156.6060909@n-man.com> References: <7f617d270511071253y1bbdbfb9tba2d6914e49859ff@mail.gmail.com> <436FC156.6060909@n-man.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270511071316y634a0a8ama3a41601eafc37b1@mail.gmail.com> No, because we need to "weed out" inactive subscribers. Sorry for added work, but we need to be sure only active members are on the list. a On 11/7/05, Patrick Barnes wrote: > Will subscribers to the old CMC list be mass-subscribed? From lxmaier at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 21:19:16 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 16:19:16 -0500 Subject: Calling all Ambassadors In-Reply-To: References: <7f617d270511071253y1bbdbfb9tba2d6914e49859ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270511071319v259d0301rf5ac87dd1ec0eb3e@mail.gmail.com> On 11/7/05, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > Humm, I sent an email to Colin about becoming the first Canadian > ambassador with no response.. > > behdad Please register for fedoraproject.org wiki, and add yourself to the Ambassador list. That simple. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList Please be sure to read "How to be an Ambassador" and "Ambassador best conduct" though! These guidelines will rule your life as long as you want to be an Ambassador. Seth will give you editing privileges once you are registered. Cheers, a From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Mon Nov 7 21:24:01 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:24:01 -0500 Subject: Calling all Ambassadors In-Reply-To: <7f617d270511071319v259d0301rf5ac87dd1ec0eb3e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f617d270511071253y1bbdbfb9tba2d6914e49859ff@mail.gmail.com> <7f617d270511071319v259d0301rf5ac87dd1ec0eb3e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1131398641.25414.46.camel@cutter> On Mon, 2005-11-07 at 16:19 -0500, Alex Maier wrote: > On 11/7/05, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > > > Humm, I sent an email to Colin about becoming the first Canadian > > ambassador with no response.. > > > > behdad > > Please register for fedoraproject.org wiki, and add yourself to the > Ambassador list. That simple. > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList > > Please be sure to read "How to be an Ambassador" and "Ambassador best > conduct" though! These guidelines will rule your life as long as you > want to be an Ambassador. > > Seth will give you editing privileges once you are registered. No, I won't. :) You, Alex, however, can add people to the EditGroup page if you'd like, you have permission to do that in the configuration. Thanks! -sv From lxmaier at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 21:49:24 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 16:49:24 -0500 Subject: Calling all Ambassadors In-Reply-To: <1131398641.25414.46.camel@cutter> References: <7f617d270511071253y1bbdbfb9tba2d6914e49859ff@mail.gmail.com> <7f617d270511071319v259d0301rf5ac87dd1ec0eb3e@mail.gmail.com> <1131398641.25414.46.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <7f617d270511071349k491b2e6fg4394de1563045286@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Seth. I will help set you guys up with Edit access. You need to be registered users for that though. So go ahead and get registered. Cheers, a On 11/7/05, seth vidal wrote: > On Mon, 2005-11-07 at 16:19 -0500, Alex Maier wrote: > > On 11/7/05, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > > > > > Humm, I sent an email to Colin about becoming the first Canadian > > > ambassador with no response.. > > > > > > behdad > > > > Please register for fedoraproject.org wiki, and add yourself to the > > Ambassador list. That simple. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList > > > > Please be sure to read "How to be an Ambassador" and "Ambassador best > > conduct" though! These guidelines will rule your life as long as you > > want to be an Ambassador. > > > > Seth will give you editing privileges once you are registered. > > No, I won't. :) > > You, Alex, however, can add people to the EditGroup page if you'd like, > you have permission to do that in the configuration. > > Thanks! > -sv > > > > > -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From lxmaier at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 22:20:16 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 17:20:16 -0500 Subject: Calling all Ambassadors In-Reply-To: <7f617d270511071253y1bbdbfb9tba2d6914e49859ff@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f617d270511071253y1bbdbfb9tba2d6914e49859ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270511071420x1822b1echbf255fa931059fa9@mail.gmail.com> By the way, I have sent invitations to join the list to all folks who a) have their names listed on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList b) have an emai address on their personal wiki pages If you are not one of this select group, do not despair, and simply visit https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list to subscribe to the new Ambassadors list. Alex On 11/7/05, Alex Maier wrote: > Hello Ambassadors! > > As our work group is growing, we have created a special mailing list > for us to conduct our business on. > > Please visit https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list > and subscribe to the list. > > Only approved ambassadors will be subscribed. > > Thank you, > Alex > > -- > New content on FUDCon page! > http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon > > FUDCon: > Fedora Users and Developers Conference > -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From jwulf at redhat.com Tue Nov 8 00:06:40 2005 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 10:06:40 +1000 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <604aa7910511070707q243c9c4fq9ee36ef0834b32c5@mail.gmail.com> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <1131328231.3195.24.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB3F5.1070704@redhat.com> <1131328987.3195.26.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB674.7010008@redhat.com> <604aa7910511061815n3cc64a3epe73820dbe9f0095@mail.gmail.com> <436F35DD.2010102@redhat.com> <604aa7910511070707q243c9c4fq9ee36ef0834b32c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <436FEC10.4030402@redhat.com> Thanks for the links Rahul and Jeff. --josh Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On 11/7/05, Joshua Wulf wrote: > >>> how about instead we just keep dragging this process out..with more >>> and more ideas... every month..a new logo idea. >>> >> Are there some links to the other logo ideas? I've seen Diane's and the >> donkey (I think that was gdk's child), and the capstrat one. That makes >> three. >> > > man, you are extremely late to this party. The logo brainstorming > discussion was started on this list in june!!!!!!! The strength of > that discussion led to farming out to an actual design team and we got > the f is for freedom draft in september. If you missed the > brainstorming portion of this process, I'm deeply sorry...but its time > to move on. Now that the design group has reported back with a draft, > its time to focus on that draft instead of continuing to propose > wildly different ideas. From this point in, I consider only > discussion which is narrowly focused on the draft design to be > constructive. If i see another "this would be a good logo" post > without constructive comment aimed at the draft to move the discussion > forward.. I will be doing the mailinglist equivalent of ripping out > your spleen. > > Reference on this list, thread from june-july with the subject: > Logos: everybody wants one but nobody seems to have any constructive > comments. (was Re: Cool Fedora schwag idea) > > -jef > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From jwulf at redhat.com Tue Nov 8 00:27:14 2005 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 10:27:14 +1000 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <436FF0E2.7030209@redhat.com> F is freedom is a cool idea. Here are my thoughts about the current proposal: It's too clever. Infinite freedom is a clever concept, which requires some explanation. ("Why doesn't it let me play my mp3s and DVDs - where's the freedom to do what I want?") The idea of combining the f for Fedora and freedom with the infinity symbol by twisting it onto its side is clever, but it requires even more explanation. Especially since the infinity symbol (not widely known outside geek circles) is rotated at a 45 degree angle, drastically reducing its intelligibility even for those who would otherwise recognize it. The Nike logo doesn't require an explanation: it's obviously a swoosh. The Ubuntu logo doesn't require an explanation: it's obviously about community and solidarity. The current Fedora proposal is not visually clear, bold and striking, it's confusing. The symbolism and its significance are obscure. It's too clever. When you look at it the two elements of f and infinity compete with each other. Your mind is trying to figure out what it's looking at. What we're doing there is creating a new composite symbol. The symbolism of infinity is distorted through rotation and the symbolism of both the f and infinity are further abstracted through superimposition. The effect of compositing these symbols in this way is to reduce the intelligibility of both of them. The elements have been destroyed through combination and the symbol has to stand alone as a composite. But as a symbol in it's own right it's not particularly powerful. Take away the preconceived "infinite freedom" association and look at it as a brand mark from a purely visceral first sight gut response angle. I don't think it flies. It relies on too many steps and too much familiarity with the process that lead to its creation to be intelligible. While the outer form is bold and clear, it's internally complicated. I bet if we did a test where we flashed these three logos - Nike, Ubuntu and Fedora in front of people for ten seconds, they would have difficulty drawing or even recalling the Fedora one. It's too clever. What I think would be a lot clearer, if we are going to stay with this whole concept, is "f to the power of infinity" in that same speech bubble type thing. It clearly communicates the f and the infinity and people are not going to have to become initiated into the cult to be able to grasp it. --josh Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Here is a set of modifications of the first proposal and a new one by > Diana Fong > > http://www.isity.net/appeal/ > > Courtesy: http://fedoraproject.org/people > > regards > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 01:06:32 2005 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 20:06:32 -0500 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <436FF0E2.7030209@redhat.com> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <436FF0E2.7030209@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910511071706m1d0bf829y6b2cf5630ced8e1d@mail.gmail.com> On 11/7/05, Joshua Wulf wrote: > I bet if we did a test where we flashed these three logos - Nike, > Ubuntu and Fedora in front of people for ten seconds, they would have > difficulty drawing or even recalling the Fedora one. It's too clever. Nope.. sorry you can't throw in nike's symbol at this point and call the results of a focus group valid. nike as a brand as way too much recognition in popular culture, you aren't going to be able to distinguish brand exposure and "obviousness." But feel free to contact a native tribe in the congo which hasn't had contact with western culture and conduct your test.. just make sure you aren't wearing nike's when you wander into their tribal grounds and that there isn't in nike factory in the area exploiting the available human capital. Personally the ubuntu symbol looks like some sort of biohazard sticker to me so chalk me up as a dissenting opinion on your claim to obviousness on that point as well. If you are serious about conducting focus group sessions I'm all for it... just as long as the methodology is well described so the experiment can be repeated and there is consensous that the approach limits inherent bias. Though i think such a focus group experiment would be most useful if the goal was to qualify competing design drafts for the fedora mark instead of doing what you propose. I find very little worth comparing draft fedora logos to competing trademarks. It doesn't help to know if the fedora draft is more obvious or less obvious than pepsi's logo or HP's logo or even ubuntu's logo. If you are serious about this idea, what we need are 3 drafts for 3 different designs which all attempt to express the same idea. Look here's the deal... at the rate we are going.. its going to be a frelling year before we get any logo blessed... if it takes that long...waiting for a damn logo is pointless... we sure has hell better be spinning up press material for the ambassadors to use well before a year from now. If it takes 2 release cycles to perfect the logo...screw it. -jef"You go to press with the logo you have.. not the logo you want."spaleta From jwulf at redhat.com Tue Nov 8 01:14:08 2005 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 11:14:08 +1000 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <436F4326.1000406@nicubunu.ro> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <1131328231.3195.24.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB3F5.1070704@redhat.com> <1131328987.3195.26.camel@yoda.loki.me> <436EB674.7010008@redhat.com> <604aa7910511061815n3cc64a3epe73820dbe9f0095@mail.gmail.com> <436F35DD.2010102@redhat.com> <436F4326.1000406@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <436FFBE0.6060702@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Joshua Wulf wrote: >> >>> how about instead we just keep dragging this process out..with more >>> and more ideas... every month..a new logo idea. >> >> Are there some links to the other logo ideas? I've seen Diane's and >> the donkey (I think that was gdk's child), and the capstrat one. That >> makes three. > > Ops! I was sure the donkey was just a joke from reading your blog and > that made me to draw the cartoon. > What? I thought your design was the new logo proposal that was supposedly discussed at the last fedora-marketing meeting on IRC. Is there any way that someone can log those meetings and we can put the logs on the wiki each week, for those of us who live in the Antipodes and from time to time inadvertently miss the 2am meetings? (I'm often busy at that hour... rushed off my feet in fact ;-) --josh From jwulf at redhat.com Tue Nov 8 02:39:09 2005 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 12:39:09 +1000 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <604aa7910511071706m1d0bf829y6b2cf5630ced8e1d@mail.gmail.com> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <436FF0E2.7030209@redhat.com> <604aa7910511071706m1d0bf829y6b2cf5630ced8e1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43700FCD.1010608@redhat.com> Jeff Spaleta wrote: > If you are serious about this idea, what we need are 3 > drafts for 3 different designs which all attempt to express the same > idea. > > Heh. Let's do it. Let's get some variations on the theme. --josh From mattdm at mattdm.org Tue Nov 8 04:40:59 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 23:40:59 -0500 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <436FF0E2.7030209@redhat.com> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <436FF0E2.7030209@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20051108044059.GA19470@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Nov 08, 2005 at 10:27:14AM +1000, Joshua Wulf wrote: > Infinite freedom is a clever concept, which requires some explanation. > ("Why doesn't it let me play my mp3s and DVDs - where's the freedom to > do what I want?") (It does!) > The Nike logo doesn't require an explanation: it's obviously a swoosh. Errr, but what was a "swoosh" before Nike made it? Kinda a weird-lookin' checkmark, is all. > The Ubuntu logo doesn't require an explanation: it's obviously about > community and solidarity. Or biohazard? > I bet if we did a test where we flashed these three logos - Nike, > Ubuntu and Fedora in front of people for ten seconds, they would have > difficulty drawing or even recalling the Fedora one. It's too clever. The Nike one only works 'cause you're so used to it. The Ubuntu one is nice but nothing special. > What I think would be a lot clearer, if we are going to stay with this > whole concept, is "f to the power of infinity" in that same speech > bubble type thing. It clearly communicates the f and the infinity and > people are not going to have to become initiated into the cult to be > able to grasp it. But why do you need to grasp it? You don't "grasp" the Nike logo; you just instantly recognize it. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From jwulf at redhat.com Tue Nov 8 05:07:00 2005 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 15:07:00 +1000 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <20051108044059.GA19470@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <436FF0E2.7030209@redhat.com> <20051108044059.GA19470@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <43703274.60101@redhat.com> My main concern with the present design is the confusion caused in the cortex by the superimposition of the f and the infinity sign. Having the two elements there in that way causes neither of them to be striking and the brain to prevaricate between the two. It makes the effect weak. The faded infinity detracts from the f. The f detracts from the infinity effect. The net effect of the two is cognitive confusion for the brain. It's not good to make things confusing for people. I can see how if you look at it with the right brain waves going it looks leet. But for most people at a glance the visceral response seems to be confusion. In an informal survey I haven't been able to get many good reactions from people. --josh Matthew Miller wrote: > On Tue, Nov 08, 2005 at 10:27:14AM +1000, Joshua Wulf wrote: > >> Infinite freedom is a clever concept, which requires some explanation. >> ("Why doesn't it let me play my mp3s and DVDs - where's the freedom to >> do what I want?") >> > > (It does!) > > >> The Nike logo doesn't require an explanation: it's obviously a swoosh. >> > > Errr, but what was a "swoosh" before Nike made it? Kinda a weird-lookin' > checkmark, is all. > > > >> The Ubuntu logo doesn't require an explanation: it's obviously about >> community and solidarity. >> > > Or biohazard? > > >> I bet if we did a test where we flashed these three logos - Nike, >> Ubuntu and Fedora in front of people for ten seconds, they would have >> difficulty drawing or even recalling the Fedora one. It's too clever. >> > > The Nike one only works 'cause you're so used to it. The Ubuntu one is nice > but nothing special. > > >> What I think would be a lot clearer, if we are going to stay with this >> whole concept, is "f to the power of infinity" in that same speech >> bubble type thing. It clearly communicates the f and the infinity and >> people are not going to have to become initiated into the cult to be >> able to grasp it. >> > > But why do you need to grasp it? You don't "grasp" the Nike logo; you just > instantly recognize it. > > From fedora at nodata.co.uk Tue Nov 8 09:19:39 2005 From: fedora at nodata.co.uk (nodata) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 10:19:39 +0100 (CET) Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one Message-ID: <10566.213.164.3.90.1131441579.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> Hello, I read about the new logo on Fedora People. Might as well throw in my opinion :) > It's too clever. The first time I saw the proposed logo I thought to myself "Why on earth is there a M?bius strip in the logo?". I don't want to have to understand a logo. What about a logo that can be good both with and without understanding it? FedEx does this with their logo: http://tinyurl.com/dqegd At first look, it simply says "FedEx". On closer look, it describes their business. Look at the arrow between the "E" and "X". Mod01, mod02, mod03 are all improvements because they try to hide the difficult-to-explain part of the logo. I don't like the alt logos at all. From sundaram at redhat.com Tue Nov 8 09:49:23 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 15:19:23 +0530 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <10566.213.164.3.90.1131441579.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> References: <10566.213.164.3.90.1131441579.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> Message-ID: <437074A3.20404@redhat.com> nodata wrote: >Hello, I read about the new logo on Fedora People. Might as well throw in >my opinion :) > > > >>It's too clever. >> >> > >The first time I saw the proposed logo I thought to myself "Why on earth >is there a M?bius strip in the logo?". >I don't want to have to understand a logo. > > Logos dont necessarily require a meaning to be immediately visible to everyone. Just a unique identity and familiarity would be enough. Familiarity would arrive over a period of time depending on the visibility. Once we decide on the logo, thats where the attention would be on. regards Rahul From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Nov 8 09:51:27 2005 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 11:51:27 +0200 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <10566.213.164.3.90.1131441579.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> References: <10566.213.164.3.90.1131441579.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> Message-ID: <4370751F.1000507@nicubunu.ro> nodata wrote: > > Mod01, mod02, mod03 are all improvements because they try to hide the > difficult-to-explain part of the logo. I disagree: why have a logo in the first place if you try to hide it? The logo should stand on its own and be recognizable even without the 'fedora' word - this is what i don't like at mod01 and mod03 -- nicu my hats collection: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/hats Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From fedora at nodata.co.uk Tue Nov 8 09:52:45 2005 From: fedora at nodata.co.uk (nodata) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 10:52:45 +0100 (CET) Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <437074A3.20404@redhat.com> References: <10566.213.164.3.90.1131441579.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <437074A3.20404@redhat.com> Message-ID: <35654.213.164.3.90.1131443565.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> > nodata wrote: > >>Hello, I read about the new logo on Fedora People. Might as well throw in >>my opinion :) >> >> >> >>>It's too clever. >>> >>> >> >>The first time I saw the proposed logo I thought to myself "Why on earth >>is there a M?bius strip in the logo?". >>I don't want to have to understand a logo. >> >> > Logos dont necessarily require a meaning to be immediately visible to > everyone. Just a unique identity and familiarity would be enough. > Familiarity would arrive over a period of time depending on the > visibility. Once we decide on the logo, thats where the attention would > be on. > > regards > Rahul > But not understanding a logo is distracting and annoying. Is that good? From sundaram at redhat.com Tue Nov 8 10:05:39 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 15:35:39 +0530 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <35654.213.164.3.90.1131443565.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> References: <10566.213.164.3.90.1131441579.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <437074A3.20404@redhat.com> <35654.213.164.3.90.1131443565.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> Message-ID: <43707873.9090203@redhat.com> Hi >But not understanding a logo is distracting and annoying. Is that good? > > Is it really?. Examples have been given before. What your understanding of the Nike logo?. Is that somehow immediately visible to anyone who sees it?. Fedora represents many things to many different people. Its my opinion that providing a simple visual identity is more important rather than trying to capture something as diverse as the nature of Fedora within a single image and have it immediately recognizable to everyone who sees it. regards Rahul From fedora at nodata.co.uk Tue Nov 8 10:19:20 2005 From: fedora at nodata.co.uk (nodata) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 11:19:20 +0100 (CET) Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <43707873.9090203@redhat.com> References: <10566.213.164.3.90.1131441579.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <437074A3.20404@redhat.com> <35654.213.164.3.90.1131443565.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <43707873.9090203@redhat.com> Message-ID: <61766.213.164.3.90.1131445160.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> > Hi > >>But not understanding a logo is distracting and annoying. Is that good? >> >> > Is it really?. Examples have been given before. What your understanding > of the Nike logo?. Is that somehow immediately visible to anyone who > sees it?. > > Fedora represents many things to many different people. Its my opinion > that providing a simple visual identity is more important rather than > trying to capture something as diverse as the nature of Fedora within a > single image and have it immediately recognizable to everyone who sees it. > > regards > Rahul I look at the Nike logo and see a tick. That's all the thought I gave to it. I looked at the proposed Fedora logo, and saw a M?bius strip, with white and light blue, then wondered why it had two colours, then saw the "f", then wondered why the rest of the strip was light blue, then wondered why there is a M?bius strip at all, then wondered why fedora legacy had green, then wondered what the light blue meant if legacy meant green. From sundaram at redhat.com Tue Nov 8 10:27:28 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 15:57:28 +0530 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <61766.213.164.3.90.1131445160.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> References: <10566.213.164.3.90.1131441579.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <437074A3.20404@redhat.com> <35654.213.164.3.90.1131443565.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <43707873.9090203@redhat.com> <61766.213.164.3.90.1131445160.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> Message-ID: <43707D90.7090406@redhat.com> Hi >I look at the Nike logo and see a tick. That's all the thought I gave to it. > >I looked at the proposed Fedora logo, and saw a M?bius strip, with white >and light blue, then wondered why it had two colours, then saw the "f", >then wondered why the rest of the strip was light blue, then wondered why >there is a M?bius strip at all, then wondered why fedora legacy had green, >then wondered what the light blue meant if legacy meant green. > > Blue for Fedora. Green for Legacy and rest for your imagination. Have fun! regards Rahul From fedora at nodata.co.uk Tue Nov 8 10:42:10 2005 From: fedora at nodata.co.uk (nodata) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 11:42:10 +0100 (CET) Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <43707D90.7090406@redhat.com> References: <10566.213.164.3.90.1131441579.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <437074A3.20404@redhat.com> <35654.213.164.3.90.1131443565.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <43707873.9090203@redhat.com> <61766.213.164.3.90.1131445160.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <43707D90.7090406@redhat.com> Message-ID: <18502.213.164.3.90.1131446530.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> > Hi > >>I look at the Nike logo and see a tick. That's all the thought I gave to >> it. >> >>I looked at the proposed Fedora logo, and saw a M?bius strip, with white >>and light blue, then wondered why it had two colours, then saw the "f", >>then wondered why the rest of the strip was light blue, then wondered why >>there is a M?bius strip at all, then wondered why fedora legacy had >> green, >>then wondered what the light blue meant if legacy meant green. >> >> > Blue for Fedora. Green for Legacy and rest for your imagination. Have fun! > > regards > Rahul Err- thanks for that, but the point of my e-mail wasn't to get it explained, it was to show the questions others might ask themselves when seeing the logo. A loop with an f in it? From sundaram at redhat.com Tue Nov 8 10:54:01 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 16:24:01 +0530 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <18502.213.164.3.90.1131446530.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> References: <10566.213.164.3.90.1131441579.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <437074A3.20404@redhat.com> <35654.213.164.3.90.1131443565.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <43707873.9090203@redhat.com> <61766.213.164.3.90.1131445160.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <43707D90.7090406@redhat.com> <18502.213.164.3.90.1131446530.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> Message-ID: <437083C9.8000201@redhat.com> Hi >Err- thanks for that, but the point of my e-mail wasn't to get it >explained, > It wasnt a explanation of the logo but the colors associated with the project. >it was to show the questions others might ask themselves when >seeing the logo. > >A loop with an f in it? > > If thats the impression it gives you then thats fine. Those who are really curious and obsolutely require a explanation can read up on the design. Rest of them just need a visual identity and any logo would serve that purpose. Some would like it and some would not. A logo is only part of what provides a good impression. At some point we just need to decide on one, stick with it and move on. regards Rahul From sundaram at redhat.com Tue Nov 8 11:12:53 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 16:42:53 +0530 Subject: Linux Desktop Pocket Guide Message-ID: <43708835.3030404@redhat.com> Hi Orielly Linux Desktop Pocket Guide has a freely available chapter on Linux distributions with a breif introduction to Fedora and a comparison with a few others. Take a look at it. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/linuxdesktoppr/index.html regards Rahul From fedora at leemhuis.info Tue Nov 8 11:42:46 2005 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 12:42:46 +0100 Subject: Linux Desktop Pocket Guide In-Reply-To: <43708835.3030404@redhat.com> References: <43708835.3030404@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1131450166.2755.38.camel@thl.ct.heise.de> Am Dienstag, den 08.11.2005, 16:42 +0530 schrieb Rahul Sundaram: > Orielly Linux Desktop Pocket Guide has a freely available chapter on > Linux distributions with a breif introduction to Fedora and a comparison > with a few others. Take a look at it. > > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/linuxdesktoppr/index.html Only took a quick look and noticed in Table 1-2 (Page 4(written) or 5(evince)) a footnode for Fedora that says: > i386-compiled distributions will run just fine on Pentium and higher > processors but might not be as optimized as they could be. Could someone tell the author that this is not correct? This argument is so old and still wrong -- someone with a deep knowledge on the subject should write down the truth* into the wiki so we can point people to it. CU thl *that is afaik: Fedora is optimized for up to date processors like the Pentium 4 but still compatible with i386 (hence the i386 in the postfix in the rpmname). Compiling for i586 might even be slower than that was fedora does. From sundaram at redhat.com Tue Nov 8 11:55:35 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 17:25:35 +0530 Subject: Linux Desktop Pocket Guide In-Reply-To: <1131450166.2755.38.camel@thl.ct.heise.de> References: <43708835.3030404@redhat.com> <1131450166.2755.38.camel@thl.ct.heise.de> Message-ID: <43709237.70403@redhat.com> Hi >Could someone tell the author that this is not correct? This argument is >so old and still wrong -- someone with a deep knowledge on the subject >should write down the truth* into the wiki so we can point people to it. > >CU >thl > >*that is afaik: Fedora is optimized for up to date processors like the >Pentium 4 but still compatible with i386 (hence the i386 in the postfix >in the rpmname). Compiling for i586 might even be slower than that was >fedora does. > > Not sure on reaching the author but information about optimization and performance with reference to the i386 instruction set is available from: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraMyths regards Rahul From byte at aeon.com.my Tue Nov 8 11:35:53 2005 From: byte at aeon.com.my (Colin Charles) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 22:35:53 +1100 Subject: Calling all Ambassadors In-Reply-To: References: <7f617d270511071253y1bbdbfb9tba2d6914e49859ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1131449753.3009.621.camel@potter.soho.bytebot.net> On Mon, 2005-11-07 at 16:06 -0500, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > Humm, I sent an email to Colin about becoming the first Canadian > ambassador with no response.. As Alex mentioned, its time for the weeding. Just re-do it and all will be well. Behdad is a good guy ;-) -- Colin Charles, http://www.bytebot.net/ From fedora at leemhuis.info Tue Nov 8 12:28:02 2005 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 13:28:02 +0100 Subject: Linux Desktop Pocket Guide In-Reply-To: <43709237.70403@redhat.com> References: <43708835.3030404@redhat.com> <1131450166.2755.38.camel@thl.ct.heise.de> <43709237.70403@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1131452882.2755.54.camel@thl.ct.heise.de> Am Dienstag, den 08.11.2005, 17:25 +0530 schrieb Rahul Sundaram: > >Could someone tell the author that this is not correct? This argument is > >so old and still wrong -- someone with a deep knowledge on the subject > >should write down the truth* into the wiki so we can point people to it. > > > >*that is afaik: Fedora is optimized for up to date processors like the > >Pentium 4 but still compatible with i386 (hence the i386 in the postfix > >in the rpmname). Compiling for i586 might even be slower than that was > >fedora does. > > > Not sure on reaching the author but information about optimization and > performance with reference to the i386 instruction set is available from: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraMyths Quoting: >As mentioned in the release notes, Why is there no link? Okay, I can find them fast via google but I looked two minutes at http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/fc4/errata/ and could not find detailed informations. I suppose a normal book author would get disappointed at this point, too, and proceed without further investigation. The whole section IMHO misses links to some background information -- as its now it looks a bit "We say so, trust us". Ohhh, boy, seems I need to fix this myself. Later. CU thl From sundaram at redhat.com Tue Nov 8 12:29:51 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 17:59:51 +0530 Subject: Linux Desktop Pocket Guide In-Reply-To: <1131452882.2755.54.camel@thl.ct.heise.de> References: <43708835.3030404@redhat.com> <1131450166.2755.38.camel@thl.ct.heise.de> <43709237.70403@redhat.com> <1131452882.2755.54.camel@thl.ct.heise.de> Message-ID: <43709A3F.2070703@redhat.com> Hi >Why is there no link? Okay, I can find them fast via google but I looked >two minutes at > >http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/fc4/errata/ > >and could not find detailed informations. I suppose a normal book author >would get disappointed at this point, too, and proceed without further >investigation. > >The whole section IMHO misses links to some background information -- as >its now it looks a bit "We say so, trust us". > >Ohhh, boy, seems I need to fix this myself. Later. > > Go ahead. Thats why we have a wiki. ;-) regards Rahul From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 13:47:08 2005 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:47:08 -0500 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <35654.213.164.3.90.1131443565.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> References: <10566.213.164.3.90.1131441579.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <437074A3.20404@redhat.com> <35654.213.164.3.90.1131443565.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> Message-ID: <604aa7910511080547w2d770b2hca5aee0d72aa9f19@mail.gmail.com> On 11/8/05, nodata wrote: > But not understanding a logo is distracting and annoying. Is that good? I'm not distracted... nor am I annoyed... perhaps the fault lies inward and not with the logo. If you choose to go back and read up on the initial discussion when this draft was presented... you'll find the link to http://capstrat.com/development/fedora/ which has several images as links to tell the logo development story. Several people agreed in the first round of discussion about the draft in september that http://capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_10.jpg makes a particularly good "slogan" that could be used initially as banner material and as a t-shirt design to dissiminate the underlying message. This level of discussion is not moving things foward. If you have different modifications to present.. do like dfong did..create a set of modifications to the draft and present them. -jef From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 14:04:03 2005 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 09:04:03 -0500 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <43703274.60101@redhat.com> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> <436FF0E2.7030209@redhat.com> <20051108044059.GA19470@jadzia.bu.edu> <43703274.60101@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910511080604k190ddcb8s4dfcb6661c251933@mail.gmail.com> On 11/8/05, Joshua Wulf wrote: > My main concern with the present design is the confusion caused in the > cortex by the superimposition of the f and the infinity sign. Having the > two elements there in that way causes neither of them to be striking and > the brain to prevaricate between the two. It makes the effect weak. > > The faded infinity detracts from the f. > > The f detracts from the infinity effect. look back at discussion... this has come up before... and modifications have been presented which use in-lining and out-lining to make the f more distinct... but are still within the framework of the original design. If you have a different tweak in mind, break out your favorite drawing tool and mock up a modification. If you have to throw away any of the 3 composite symbols, you aren't thinking hard enough. > > The net effect of the two is cognitive confusion for the brain. It's not > good to make things confusing for people. I'll believe there is cognitive confusion here, when you have MRI data of people while looking at the draft logo which clearly shows increased activity in the anterior cingulated cortex. > > I can see how if you look at it with the right brain waves going it > looks leet. But for most people at a glance the visceral response seems > to be confusion. I refuse to let ANYONE in this discussion get away with backhanded comments concerning what "most" people think. That is a debate parlor trick that only serves to prolong this discussion. If you want to talk from personal experience fine...but don't claim to know the thoughts of the collective hivemind of the unwashed and the uninitiated unless you have some very hard and very statistically significant data to back that crap up. > In an informal survey I haven't been able to get many > good reactions from people. Yippie frelling do-da.... i have done several different informal surveys among friends,co-workers and church members. I showed them the combined symbol as well as http://capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_10.jpg no one reacted strongly to the symbol itself. and everyone got the 'important' message from fedoraLogo_10 What's this prove... absolutely nothing. Neither of us have used a repeatable survey methodology nor have either of us made any attempts to limit surveyor bias. -jef"you can ask any group of people anything and get the answer you wanted to get beforehand"spaleta From chasd at silveroaks.com Tue Nov 8 18:26:13 2005 From: chasd at silveroaks.com (chasd at silveroaks.com) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 12:26:13 -0600 Subject: Fedora-marketing-list Digest, Vol 17, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: <20051108170006.B268A736E1@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20051108170006.B268A736E1@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: Has anyone compared the proposed Fedora logo idea(s) to the logos used for Quark and the Scottish Arts Council? Or Google for more on the issue Charles Dostale System Admin - Silver Oaks Communications http://www.silveroaks.com/ 824 17th Street, Moline IL 61265 From luya at jpopmail.com Tue Nov 8 18:51:49 2005 From: luya at jpopmail.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 10:51:49 -0800 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one Message-ID: <20051108185149.16DE82394A@ws5-3.us4.outblaze.com> I made a quick sckethy modification of the draft with a stylist "f" and a subtle infinity symbol. http://finalzone.webmasterswebworkshop.com/Fedora/fedora_logo_draft_scketchy.png I didn't intend to make if perfect but that is a suggested idea. Luya -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://mymail.jp.popstarmail.org From luya at jpopmail.com Tue Nov 8 19:16:39 2005 From: luya at jpopmail.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 11:16:39 -0800 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one (slight variation) Message-ID: <20051108191639.4318423D02@ws5-3.us4.outblaze.com> Another modification attempt. http://finalzone.webmasterswebworkshop.com/Fedora/fedora_logo_draft_scketchy01.png Luya -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://mymail.jp.popstarmail.org From rodrigopadula at sagraluzzatto.com.br Tue Nov 8 19:20:36 2005 From: rodrigopadula at sagraluzzatto.com.br (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 17:20:36 -0200 Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil Message-ID: <4370FA84.60504@sagraluzzatto.com.br> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi All!! We need a list of users in Brazil, still we do not have none. Is possible to create the list fedora-users-br and they will place me as moderator? We need a communication channel on the Fedora in portuguese-br language. Thanks! - -- +================================================+ RODRIGO PADULA DE OLIVEIRA (o- BACHAREL EM SISTEMAS DE INFORMA??O //\ FACULDADE METODISTA GRANBERY - FMG V_/_ PostgreSQL - PHP - Linux +================================================+ Membro Fundador do Gunix Linux http://www.gunix.com.br -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDcPqE8arYxsJpZ0URAtwMAKC2IemO+BovuQqhXsjcXqD1G6IqTwCfetxv Ug1lNjdHMgENfQbqnTuI+pI= =WNbQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Nov 8 23:21:34 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 15:21:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil In-Reply-To: <4370FA84.60504@sagraluzzatto.com.br> Message-ID: <20051108232134.85852.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > Hi All!! > We need a list of users in Brazil, still we do not have > none. You're going to speak English and you're going to like it! Sorry, couldn't resist. Seriously now, I agree. There probably should be regionalized lists for Portugese, Espa?ol, etc..., if not by country code. -- Joe American Equal Opportunity Offender -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Nov 8 23:26:00 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 15:26:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil Message-ID: <20051108232600.7476.qmail@web34111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > Seriously now, I agree. There probably should be > regionalized lists for Portugese, Espa?ol, etc..., if not > by country code. I probably should have taken that one step further. Given the speaking populous of the United States, and the infiltration of Linux in the Americas outside the US as well as international business with the US, it probably wouldn't hurt to consider even a list that targets the US business and end-consumer who's primary language is Espa?ol. Living in Florida, I'm quickly running into such opportunities -- both local and abroad. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From nman64 at n-man.com Tue Nov 8 23:31:28 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 17:31:28 -0600 Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil In-Reply-To: <20051108232134.85852.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051108232134.85852.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43713550.6020008@n-man.com> Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > >> Hi All!! >> We need a list of users in Brazil, still we do not have >> none. >> > > > You're going to speak English and you're going to like it! > > > Sorry, couldn't resist. > > Seriously now, I agree. There probably should be > regionalized lists for Portugese, Espa?ol, etc..., if not by > country code. > > -- Joe American > Equal Opportunity Offender > > > > Whether or not we should have i18n lists, we already have several. We don't yet have a list in Portuguese. The real question is this: do we want lists only by language, as we currently have, or do we go ahead and break it down by region, too? Dialects are quite different among the same language, so the latter probably makes more sense, IMHO. So, do we have fedora-pt-list, or do we go for fedora-pt-br-list? -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Nov 8 23:38:59 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 15:38:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil In-Reply-To: <43713550.6020008@n-man.com> Message-ID: <20051108233859.8491.qmail@web34102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Patrick Barnes wrote: > Whether or not we should have i18n lists, we already have > several. We don't yet have a list in Portuguese. Given the Brazilian market for Linux, that's probably a good start. > The real question is this: do we want lists only by > language, as we currently have, or do we go ahead and > break it down by region, too? Dialects are quite different > among the same language, so the latter probably makes > more sense, IMHO. I said "region" for a reason -- as you'll want several for each language. Brazil should clearly have its own list. I guess I just cross a couple of ideas simultaneously (see my next post). I mean, here in the SE US, my employer is clearly seeing a lot of business opportunities outside the US in the immediate, surrounding Latin American market (although not nearly far enough south that you cross too many dialects, or see Portuguese). > So, do we have fedora-pt-list, or do we go for > fedora-pt-br-list? I'd say just "br" for Brazil. How it breaks down for everything else, I leave to you'all. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From jwulf at redhat.com Tue Nov 8 23:59:02 2005 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 09:59:02 +1000 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <604aa7910511080547w2d770b2hca5aee0d72aa9f19@mail.gmail.com> References: <10566.213.164.3.90.1131441579.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <437074A3.20404@redhat.com> <35654.213.164.3.90.1131443565.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <604aa7910511080547w2d770b2hca5aee0d72aa9f19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43713BC6.4030508@redhat.com> > This level of discussion is not moving things foward. If you have > different modifications to present.. do like dfong did..create a set > of modifications to the draft and present them. > Jef, it's not my intention to derail the process, so please don't misread me. I respect the work that you and others have done to move this forward to this point, and I'm not trying to move things backwards. Not everyone is happy with the logo as it stands now (wait....) As you are well aware, 100% consensus is a pipe dream, and there are always going to be people who don't like it. At the same time, some people are at ill at ease with the logo, but aren't able to put it clearly into words. I know that we are annoying with our drive-by opinions, "it just doesn't look right" whining, and lack of a concrete proposal, but please humor me while I make an attempt to crystallize my own thoughts, and coalesce the concerns of others into *something that can be a valid and useful input into further development of the logo*. Please let me be clear: I understand the need for putting the stake into the ground at some gosh darned point to *make it happen*, and to be completely frank with you, I really admire and appreciate your focus and your intensity (spleen ripping and all :-), which are making it happen. I'm right behind you, with the rest of the stragglers. Please be patient with me. - josh "don't shoot - i'm on your side!" wulf From rodrigopadula at sagraluzzatto.com.br Wed Nov 9 00:22:30 2005 From: rodrigopadula at sagraluzzatto.com.br (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 22:22:30 -0200 Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil In-Reply-To: <20051108232134.85852.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051108232134.85852.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43714146.5050201@sagraluzzatto.com.br> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > >>Hi All!! >>We need a list of users in Brazil, still we do not have >>none. > > > > You're going to speak English and you're going to like it! > > > Sorry, couldn't resist. > > Seriously now, I agree. There probably should be > regionalized lists for Portugese, Espa?ol, etc..., if not by > country code. > > -- Joe American > Equal Opportunity Offender The Portuguese of Brazil is different of the Portuguese of Portugal, therefore I suggested fedora-users-br. - -- +================================================+ RODRIGO PADULA DE OLIVEIRA (o- BACHAREL EM SISTEMAS DE INFORMA??O //\ FACULDADE METODISTA GRANBERY - FMG V_/_ PostgreSQL - PHP - Linux +================================================+ Membro Fundador do Gunix Linux http://www.gunix.com.br -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDcUFG8arYxsJpZ0URAmGZAKDW2aFmDe4f/Sczez1ZexaeyM+/iwCgjGwU KwKVLMntF30FtzmhrVQ33hw= =uyxK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rodrigopadula at sagraluzzatto.com.br Wed Nov 9 00:27:03 2005 From: rodrigopadula at sagraluzzatto.com.br (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 22:27:03 -0200 Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil In-Reply-To: <43713550.6020008@n-man.com> References: <20051108232134.85852.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <43713550.6020008@n-man.com> Message-ID: <43714257.3070702@sagraluzzatto.com.br> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Patrick Barnes wrote: > Whether or not we should have i18n lists, we already have several. We > don't yet have a list in Portuguese. The real question is this: do we > want lists only by language, as we currently have, or do we go ahead and > break it down by region, too? Dialects are quite different among the > same language, so the latter probably makes more sense, IMHO. So, do we > have fedora-pt-list, or do we go for fedora-pt-br-list? I suggest fedora-pt and fedora-pt-br. He has a gigantic difference enters the Portuguese of Portugal and the Portuguese of Brazil - -- +================================================+ RODRIGO PADULA DE OLIVEIRA (o- BACHAREL EM SISTEMAS DE INFORMA??O //\ FACULDADE METODISTA GRANBERY - FMG V_/_ PostgreSQL - PHP - Linux +================================================+ Membro Fundador do Gunix Linux http://www.gunix.com.br -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDcUJX8arYxsJpZ0URAnpeAJ4jWY8W1ZphCKusfYq/6VbjFut0kwCcDX5v i6RsvQ5EHxaDTYPlnIqey8s= =IHPq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rodrigopadula at sagraluzzatto.com.br Wed Nov 9 00:39:36 2005 From: rodrigopadula at sagraluzzatto.com.br (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 22:39:36 -0200 Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil In-Reply-To: <43713550.6020008@n-man.com> References: <20051108232134.85852.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <43713550.6020008@n-man.com> Message-ID: <43714548.5090506@sagraluzzatto.com.br> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Patrick Barnes wrote: > Whether or not we should have i18n lists, we already have several. We > don't yet have a list in Portuguese. The real question is this: do we > want lists only by language, as we currently have, or do we go ahead and > break it down by region, too? Dialects are quite different among the > same language, so the latter probably makes more sense, IMHO. So, do we > have fedora-pt-list, or do we go for fedora-pt-br-list? To be more clearly, it would not be better FEDORA-USERS-BR ? FEDORA-USERS-BR = Brazilian Users List - -- +================================================+ RODRIGO PADULA DE OLIVEIRA (o- BACHAREL EM SISTEMAS DE INFORMA??O //\ FACULDADE METODISTA GRANBERY - FMG V_/_ PostgreSQL - PHP - Linux +================================================+ Membro Fundador do Gunix Linux http://www.gunix.com.br -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDcUVI8arYxsJpZ0URAlksAKCTzsJjcntKWhALdvH4TZLytslujgCdHVSY o/xKFyFlQ3x9LD2BnpQcQCY= =YX7Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Nov 9 00:49:47 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 16:49:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil In-Reply-To: <43714548.5090506@sagraluzzatto.com.br> Message-ID: <20051109004947.47349.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > To be more clearly, it would not be better FEDORA-USERS-BR > ? No. We need to add all sorts of letters after the original to differentiate it from the "Real Fedora" which is always in English and in the "Real America." So how's "pt-br-youbenotus-howsthattaste-etc"??? Seriously now, I completely agree with you. Brazil clearly has the market that doesn't need anything other than "br" attached. It's redundant to add anything to designate Portuguese. I shouldn't have brought up segmenting by language with regards to your post. As I mentioned in my other post, I started crossing ideas with your request (which wasn't keeping focus). I.e., we could really use a Spanish marketing list just for the US and surrouding Latin American consumers for those of us who touch both local and surrounding international markets. Sorry I took this on a bit of a tangent, and crossed my idea with your request. I'm sure that caused someone to start turning it into "pt-br-mo-mo-mo". ;-p -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Nov 9 00:53:34 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 16:53:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil In-Reply-To: <43714146.5050201@sagraluzzatto.com.br> Message-ID: <20051109005334.51283.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > The Portuguese of Brazil is different of the Portuguese of > Portugal, therefore I suggested fedora-users-br. Just is various dialects of Espanol versus Espana. Again, I kinda crossed another idea I had with your request probably at the wrong time. Brazil clearly should have its own "br" -- just out of the pure market-size aspect. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From nman64 at n-man.com Wed Nov 9 00:54:31 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 18:54:31 -0600 Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil In-Reply-To: <43714548.5090506@sagraluzzatto.com.br> References: <20051108232134.85852.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <43713550.6020008@n-man.com> <43714548.5090506@sagraluzzatto.com.br> Message-ID: <437148C7.605@n-man.com> Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Patrick Barnes wrote: > >> Whether or not we should have i18n lists, we already have several. We >> don't yet have a list in Portuguese. The real question is this: do we >> want lists only by language, as we currently have, or do we go ahead and >> break it down by region, too? Dialects are quite different among the >> same language, so the latter probably makes more sense, IMHO. So, do we >> have fedora-pt-list, or do we go for fedora-pt-br-list? >> > > To be more clearly, it would not be better FEDORA-USERS-BR ? > > FEDORA-USERS-BR = Brazilian Users List > The existing i18n lists use "fedora--list", and I see no reason to break from that. The translation lists use the form "pt_br", and that would probably be the way to go. That would mean that a list for Brazilian Portuguese would become "fedora-pt_br-list". Changing the naming scheme would be a big policy decision, but if we are going to make any changes, now is better than later. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Nov 9 00:58:29 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 16:58:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil In-Reply-To: <20051109004947.47349.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20051109005829.52281.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > > No. We need to add all sorts of letters after the original > to differentiate it from the "Real Fedora" which is always > in English and in the "Real America." So how's > "pt-br-youbenotus-howsthattaste-etc"??? > Just in case anyone didn't get my few jokes, it's basically a self-realization and humor at my own, land-locked, American expense. Far too often we Americans make other market considerations as after-thoughts. In fact, we should consider that any new Fedora list in the future have at least an "en" if not a "us" or "en-us" after it. Especially since Fedora is not a product from an American company, just largely sponsored by an American company at this time. Just some considerations. Sorry I interjected a couple of different ideas all at once -- like maybe creating an "es-us". ;-> -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Nov 9 01:16:24 2005 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 20:16:24 -0500 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <43713BC6.4030508@redhat.com> References: <10566.213.164.3.90.1131441579.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <437074A3.20404@redhat.com> <35654.213.164.3.90.1131443565.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> <604aa7910511080547w2d770b2hca5aee0d72aa9f19@mail.gmail.com> <43713BC6.4030508@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910511081716t3f5c5460hb03a0513c3d277dc@mail.gmail.com> On 11/8/05, Joshua Wulf wrote: > Not everyone is happy with the logo as it stands now (wait....) I dare say an equal or fewer number of serious people would be happy with any of the community supplied drafts that came before as part of the list discussion. Nicu is a pretty good artist, and did a reasonable job turning presented ideas into drafts.. but nothing fit any better than the 'official' draft did. This discussion can not linger for a year while we nitpick a visual design. > > As you are well aware, 100% consensus is a pipe dream, and there are > always going to be people who don't like it. At the same time, some > people are at ill at ease with the logo, but aren't able to put it > clearly into words. Words words words... a picture is worth a thousand of them. If you want to discuss modifications to the draft logo we have now.. break out gimp or inkscape and draw the mock up which fixes the problem. What dfong presented as modifications is exactly where discussion needs to go at this late date. And let me remind you again that the draft we have in hand now was communicated on sept 16th, nearly 2 months ago... 2 months...2. As reference the thread from Sept 16th, "Meeting minutes - 16/09/2005" Several people spent time giving feedback in that thread.. most of those people have been involved in the discussion in july and august. Several people produced mocked up examples modifications to tweak the design in that thread. I belive both Toshio and Tejas mocked up modifications to address the concern you raise with regard to the f not being distinquishable nearly 2 months ago... 2 months...2. Though they were able to do it without using the word "prevaricate" so i guess you get sole credit for increasing the unique word count for the list. > I'm right behind you, with the rest of the stragglers. Please be patient > with me. I refuse to be patient.. especially when I'm suffering from low blood sugar right before dinner. -jef"i need a cookie"spaleta From rodrigopadula at sagraluzzatto.com.br Wed Nov 9 02:01:41 2005 From: rodrigopadula at sagraluzzatto.com.br (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 00:01:41 -0200 Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil In-Reply-To: <20051109005829.52281.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051109005829.52281.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43715885.60702@sagraluzzatto.com.br> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bryan J. Smith wrote: > "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > >> >>No. We need to add all sorts of letters after the original >>to differentiate it from the "Real Fedora" which is always >>in English and in the "Real America." So how's >>"pt-br-youbenotus-howsthattaste-etc"??? >> > > > Just in case anyone didn't get my few jokes, it's basically a > self-realization and humor at my own, land-locked, American > expense. Far too often we Americans make other market > considerations as after-thoughts. > > In fact, we should consider that any new Fedora list in the > future have at least an "en" if not a "us" or "en-us" after > it. Especially since Fedora is not a product from an > American company, just largely sponsored by an American > company at this time. > > Just some considerations. Sorry I interjected a couple of > different ideas all at once -- like maybe creating an > "es-us". ;-> The question is that we have one f?rum with 1300 users of the Fedora and a community in the ORKUT with 1200 users and no list of quarrel! Independent the name to be fedora-br or fedora-pt_br or another thing, we need with urgency of this list :-) I suggest to identify lists of users of this form: FEDORA-USERS-COUNTRY Then the list of Brazilian users would be FEDORA-USERS-BR Exactly that they do not modify the existing lists already, would be interesting that the new lists followed this standard. Ahhh! We also are American.... not only who we are born in the USA we are American, you they are Americans of the North and us we are American of the South heheheh :-) - -- +================================================+ RODRIGO PADULA DE OLIVEIRA (o- BACHAREL EM SISTEMAS DE INFORMA??O //\ FACULDADE METODISTA GRANBERY - FMG V_/_ PostgreSQL - PHP - Linux +================================================+ Membro Fundador do Gunix Linux http://www.gunix.com.br -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDcViF8arYxsJpZ0URApP2AJ92ABRU9zk2drb+uxK0y7UIOi5doACgy2F+ PTebhrpRA38/r8/cj7DV5dE= =JLFK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mmunoz at capstrat.com Wed Nov 9 16:49:05 2005 From: mmunoz at capstrat.com (Matt Munoz) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 11:49:05 -0500 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications to the "f" and color Message-ID: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> Here's the direct link: http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_21.jpg It's also at the end of the presentation under "modifications": http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora We've revised the color and shapes so the "f" stands out more. Best, matt ??? Matthew Mu?oz | Capstrat | 919-882-1975 From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Nov 9 17:04:33 2005 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 12:04:33 -0500 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications to the "f" and color In-Reply-To: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910511090904v7e3d0934h6379f134fa4e7eff@mail.gmail.com> On 11/9/05, Matt Munoz wrote: > Here's the direct link: > http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_21.jpg > > It's also at the end of the presentation under "modifications": > http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora > > We've revised the color and shapes so the "f" stands out more. While I agree that the change in shape helps here, I am concerned that the effect relies too heavily on color shading. If the secondary color palette of the infinity symbol is meant to be extensible for subprojects, we run the risk of limiting the number of useful secondary colors to those few which enhance the contrast. It looks to me that this modification drops the idea of the secondary color completely, I'm not sure that's the best trade-off. I'd like to avoid a situation where new subprojects have to nitpick between 72 different shades of orange to find just the right one that has reasonable contrast but still provide a way for subprojects to make a distinction between themselves in the framework of the logo. I'd also enjoy seeing this in grey scale to see if the change in color continues to aid in contrast. I still feel that a sort of narrow outline/inline which has been presented earlier would provide the most robust solution without overly restricting the secondary color palette and as an added bonus you might be able to recover a version of the logo that has a distinct f even in 2-tone black and white instead of grey scale. -jef From gdk at redhat.com Wed Nov 9 17:08:10 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 12:08:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications to the "f" and color In-Reply-To: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Matt. These modifications are what we're going with. We're in a position now where it's time to get on with things. We'll be seeing new logos on fedora.redhat.com and fedoraproject.org as soon as is practicable -- hopefully within the week. Some people will love this logo, and some people will hate this logo. That's simply the way things work. I certainly hope that more people love it than hate it, but really, it's just a symbol. What matters is how people will feel when they see that symbol. While the right image can help set the tone, that feeling has *much* more to do with how we serve the people who use Fedora, and contribute to Fedora. I'd like to say that we did this "the right way." I think we did, but where there are so many opinions, one never has the luxury of being completely sure. So I'd like to ask some questions of you all, now that we're basically at the end of this particular project: * Should we have gone through more iterations, or would more iterations have dragged things out even longer? * Should we have exposed the logo to more people for comment, or should we have restricted comment to this list -- which is composed of people who clearly take a more active interest in the well-being of Fedora? --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Wed, 9 Nov 2005, Matt Munoz wrote: > Here's the direct link: > http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_21.jpg > > It's also at the end of the presentation under "modifications": > http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora > > We've revised the color and shapes so the "f" stands out more. > > Best, > matt > > ??? > Matthew Mu?oz | Capstrat | 919-882-1975 > > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From gdk at redhat.com Wed Nov 9 17:15:58 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 12:15:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications to the "f" and color In-Reply-To: <604aa7910511090904v7e3d0934h6379f134fa4e7eff@mail.gmail.com> References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511090904v7e3d0934h6379f134fa4e7eff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Nov 2005, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > It looks to me that this modification drops the idea of the secondary > color completely, I'm not sure that's the best trade-off. I'd like to > avoid a situation where new subprojects have to nitpick between 72 > different shades of orange to find just the right one that has > reasonable contrast but still provide a way for subprojects to make a > distinction between themselves in the framework of the logo. This modification does, in fact, drop the idea of a secondary color completely. I do think there's plenty of debate, long-term, to be had around how individual subprojects are branded. But the imperative was to nail down this first logo, and the prospect of maintaining a complex color palette for all the colors of the rainbow simply didn't seem practical in the end. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Wed Nov 9 18:02:31 2005 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 10:02:31 -0800 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications to the "f" and color In-Reply-To: References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> Message-ID: <1131559351.3216.35.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2005-11-09 at 12:08 -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > Thanks, Matt. > > These modifications are what we're going with. We're in a position now > where it's time to get on with things. We'll be seeing new logos on > fedora.redhat.com and fedoraproject.org as soon as is practicable -- > hopefully within the week. > > Some people will love this logo, and some people will hate this logo. > That's simply the way things work. I certainly hope that more people love > it than hate it, but really, it's just a symbol. What matters is how > people will feel when they see that symbol. While the right image can > help set the tone, that feeling has *much* more to do with how we serve > the people who use Fedora, and contribute to Fedora. > > I'd like to say that we did this "the right way." I think we did, but > where there are so many opinions, one never has the luxury of being > completely sure. So I'd like to ask some questions of you all, now that > we're basically at the end of this particular project: > > * Should we have gone through more iterations, or would more iterations > have dragged things out even longer? I don't think more iterations would necessarily have helped. But a broader call to submit logos would have been good. If people on fedora forums, etc had been asked if they would like to provide logo samples before decisions had been made that would have allowed some of these "popular alternatives" to surface at a point in time when it would have been useful. > * Should we have exposed the logo to more people for comment, or should we > have restricted comment to this list -- which is composed of people who > clearly take a more active interest in the well-being of Fedora? Is the logo for the product to represent itself or for the community to unite under? I think, in a community project, the logo is something the community needs to want to associate themselves with. Do I belong to the "speech-bubble-infinity-stylized-f-group", the "red-swirl-group", or the "silver-pacman-group". So it would been better for the community to have had a more active role in this particular decision. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Nov 9 18:39:08 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 00:09:08 +0530 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications to the "f" and color In-Reply-To: <1131559351.3216.35.camel@localhost> References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <1131559351.3216.35.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <4372424C.3010907@redhat.com> Hi >I don't think more iterations would necessarily have helped. But a >broader call to submit logos would have been good. If people on fedora >forums, etc had been asked if they would like to provide logo samples >before decisions had been made that would have allowed some of these >"popular alternatives" to surface at a point in time when it would have >been useful. > > Apart from this open mailing list with public archives, it was mentioned in Fedora News atleast twice. Weekly issues are announced both in the fedora announcement list and to the frontpage newssection in the Fedora forum among various places such as lwn.net and distrowatch.com. Such announcements to the forum were originally done by Thomas Chnug. Luya Tshimbalanga posts these to the forum and I move it to the news section everytime these days. http://fedoranews.org/mediawiki/index.php/Fedora_Weekly_News_Issue_4 http://fedoranews.org/wiki/Fedora_Weekly_News_Issue_11 >Is the logo for the product to represent itself or for the community to >unite under? I think, in a community project, the logo is something the >community needs to want to associate themselves with. Do I belong to >the "speech-bubble-infinity-stylized-f-group", the "red-swirl-group", or >the "silver-pacman-group". So it would been better for the community >to have had a more active role in this particular decision. > > Its for the project to represent itself. As a community project, interested people can always participate in it. Those who had enough interest in the marketing aspects of Fedora subscribed themselves and took part in the discussions and proposed various logos. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/LogoIdeas The discussion has been going on for months in a open and public list. I am not sure what exactly could have been done to publicize such efforts better. Suggestions? regards Rahul From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Nov 9 19:53:35 2005 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 14:53:35 -0500 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications to the "f" and color In-Reply-To: References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> On 11/9/05, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > * Should we have gone through more iterations, or would more iterations > have dragged things out even longer? Strictly speaking I think neither. I think the missing element isn't iterations or time per iteration.. but an aspect of choice, limited choice. Whether it be a discussion of default background, or codename, or logo. I'd like to see 2 or 3 reasonable choices presented for feedback before the final decision. To me most discussion should run sort of like this: 1) very free-form brain-storming discussion with lots of crazy crap from this debate comes a sense of bounds as to constraints on the solution space. The more variety of out of bounds ideas you can generate the better you understand the boundary of the problem. And you hope to get a sense of important themes that a solution should try to incorporate.This is the discussion that puts the item on the map as an action item. No-one should expect a solution to come fully formed from this discussion. 2) applying the constraints, task a team or individual to spin up 2 or 3 solutions which individually meet the constraints but provide different interpretations as to mix of important themes. Make sure its clear how the final decision is going to be made at this point. 3) focused feedback discussion on those specific 2 or 3 choices. This allows for some ability to compare and contrast between the presented choices, instead of degrading into a simple "this sucks." Most likely, all choices will be equally recieved across the spectrum of interested people.. publicly validating the fact that any of the set of choices will serve equally well/poorly. 4) final decision is made however was decided in step 2. If we fell down in this discussion, its in the fact that we only had one draft for consideration which met the constraints at step 2. -jef From jeremy.hogan at gmail.com Wed Nov 9 21:51:50 2005 From: jeremy.hogan at gmail.com (Jeremy Hogan) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:51:50 -0500 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications to the "f" and color In-Reply-To: <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <556f970a0511091351w5f33149pab86be0b1a517848@mail.gmail.com> On 11/9/05, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > > 1) very free-form brain-storming discussion with lots of crazy crap > from this debate comes a sense of bounds as to constraints on the > solution space. I thought we did that. We had puppies and goats and periodic tables and all sorts of stuff flying around. The bounds were things like "we're sticking to blue" and "no hats". 2) applying the constraints, task a team or individual to spin up 2 > or 3 solutions which individually meet the constraints but provide > different > interpretations as to mix of important themes. We did that too, before and after Matt's design. After his design there were some suggestions made (make the f look more like an f, pronounce the infinity symbol more). Of the community submitted variations on Matt's design, the only ones near professional enough to even consider were the ones from earlier this week that looks like rain dropping into a pond. If you mean that Matt or Red Hat should have produced more than one version, I think that would have only encouraged apples to oranges discussions. You simply can't look at a nike style swoop v. Adidas three stripes, and start a discussion about which is "better" and make any sense of it. RH took the requirements, distilled the high points of teh discussion and likely went over tons of iterations internally. Someone had to make final cut or or we'd all still be explaining to new list members that a blue hat with a puppy in it wasn't gonna fly. 3) focused feedback discussion on those specific 2 or 3 choices. I don't know that this was run any differently than say deciding which packages to include in Core. The people who cared were consulted. Those who cared the most, gave the most feedback. But at the end of the day, this is a legal issue as well as a branding issue, and RH is the sugar daddy, so it's their call. They have to hire the lawyers to protect it, they have to live with it as an extension of their brand. When you compare RH sales to their market cap, you realize their brand is worth a couple of billion dollars. So I think they could have handled the task very well with out without the immense and multi-month consultation they facilitated about it. And if this was about the software, and not about tradmarks and legal issues and marketing and branding I would have welcomed a massive referendum. But it is about all those things as well as making everyone feel as included as we can. > If we fell down in this discussion, its in the fact that we only had > one draft for consideration which met the constraints at step 2. I dunno, I saw 5-6 designs come out after Matt's. He doesn't have to produce multiple logos for us to have seen multiple logos. Now, we stopped posting all of them at some point I noticed, but we had an awful lot of input and opportunity in the last several months to register our feelings. --jeremy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Nov 9 22:31:06 2005 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 17:31:06 -0500 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications to the "f" and color In-Reply-To: <556f970a0511091351w5f33149pab86be0b1a517848@mail.gmail.com> References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> <556f970a0511091351w5f33149pab86be0b1a517848@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910511091431g117fd7d3gfedd0844dc8cb51c@mail.gmail.com> On 11/9/05, Jeremy Hogan wrote: > I dunno, I saw 5-6 designs come out after Matt's. He doesn't have to > produce multiple logos for us to have seen multiple logos. Now, we stopped > posting all of them at some point I noticed, but we had an awful lot of > input and opportunity in the last several months to register our feelings. I was talking about 2 or 3 'tasked' designs... the key here being 'tasked'... where specific people are asked to report back within constraints. The 5 -6 modifications we saw from people committed to the discussion after the single 'tasked' design is modification feedback. Those aren't the people I'm trying to address in step 2. When presented with a choice, casual and yet opinionated observers I feel are more likely to give feedback of the form "I like A over B" instead of simply "the single choice blows monkey chunks, i hate you..die." I want a process that fights the tendency to reach backwards as new people discover the discussion half-way through the process but still gives those people a way to voice an opinion that is constructive in aggregate and does not make them feel excluded. Is what I propose in step 2 strictly necessary to get the job done.. no. In most cases the duplication of effort is just going to be awash, every tasked item should be equally palatable to the community at large. I know and you know that these sort of non-technical touchy-feely decisions have multiple reasonable solutions, and that the bar to be met is "good enough." The problem is the 90% of the community doesn't necessarily get that. The processes we use need to make the general community feel/taste/see the same thing that we as englightened indviduals "know". I believe a little duplication at the task assignment step dampens whatever rash and irrational accusations about process exclusion find their way into the larger community who have no been following the process discussion and helps prevent the appearence that final solutions are being completely dictated. -jef But I feel the extra effort appeases the ever present demons of general community upkeep over the decision making process. From stuart at elsn.org Wed Nov 9 22:49:30 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 22:49:30 +0000 Subject: Talking Points In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1131576570.3026.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-11-01 at 10:48 -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > OK, gang. I'm working on a set of talking points for Fedora. Think of > these as "sound bites". Imagine having a deck of cards, each with a few > sentences, each of which describes an important Fedora message. > > Here's the start: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/TalkingPoints > > I could really use some help. > > Either: > > a. Fix a FIXME; or > b. Add a talking point that you think is vitally important. I added this link to the page, but I thought it may be of wider interest too. TIOBE Programming Community Index, which attempts to measure the popularity of programming languages: http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm Fedora supports all of the top 4 languages, and 7 out of the top 10 (the other three are C#, classic VB, and Delphi). Java is number one. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From barzilay at redhat.com Thu Nov 10 03:23:59 2005 From: barzilay at redhat.com (David Barzilay) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 13:23:59 +1000 Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil In-Reply-To: <43715885.60702@sagraluzzatto.com.br> References: <20051109005829.52281.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <43715885.60702@sagraluzzatto.com.br> Message-ID: <1131593040.4896.25.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> OK Guys and Gals, I also love jokes, but who can actually make this happen and create the Brazilian Fedora users list? Thanks, -- David Barzilay Technical Translator Brazilian Portuguese Red Hat Asia-Pacific On Wed, 2005-11-09 at 00:01 -0200, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Bryan J. Smith wrote: > > "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > > > >> > >>No. We need to add all sorts of letters after the original > >>to differentiate it from the "Real Fedora" which is always > >>in English and in the "Real America." So how's > >>"pt-br-youbenotus-howsthattaste-etc"??? > >> > > > > > > Just in case anyone didn't get my few jokes, it's basically a > > self-realization and humor at my own, land-locked, American > > expense. Far too often we Americans make other market > > considerations as after-thoughts. > > > > In fact, we should consider that any new Fedora list in the > > future have at least an "en" if not a "us" or "en-us" after > > it. Especially since Fedora is not a product from an > > American company, just largely sponsored by an American > > company at this time. > > > > Just some considerations. Sorry I interjected a couple of > > different ideas all at once -- like maybe creating an > > "es-us". ;-> > > The question is that we have one f?rum with 1300 users of the Fedora and > a community in the ORKUT with 1200 users and no list of quarrel! > > Independent the name to be fedora-br or fedora-pt_br or another thing, > we need with urgency of this list :-) > > I suggest to identify lists of users of this form: > FEDORA-USERS-COUNTRY > Then the list of Brazilian users would be FEDORA-USERS-BR > > Exactly that they do not modify the existing lists already, would be > interesting that the new lists followed this standard. > > Ahhh! We also are American.... not only who we are born in the USA we > are American, you they are Americans of the North and us we are American > of the South heheheh :-) From luya at jpopmail.com Thu Nov 10 07:59:14 2005 From: luya at jpopmail.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 23:59:14 -0800 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications to the "f" and color Message-ID: <20051110075914.85804CA0A3@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com> The logo kinda reminds something that comes from a videogames. I think the logo matches with the fonts. Now I can't wait to see the final version. Luya > Here's the direct link: > http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_21.jpg > > It's also at the end of the presentation under "modifications": > http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora > > We've revised the color and shapes so the "f" stands out more. > > Best, > matt > > ??? > Matthew Mu?oz | Capstrat | 919-882-1975 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > End of Fedora-marketing-list Digest, Vol 17, Issue 12 > ***************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://mymail.jp.popstarmail.org From nman64 at n-man.com Thu Nov 10 09:07:42 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 03:07:42 -0600 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications to the "f" and color In-Reply-To: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> Message-ID: <43730DDE.8030807@n-man.com> In order to see what this logo would look like with reduced colors, I grabbed the image and started playing. Although it would have been nice to have access to the master materials (including the _free font_ -- hint, hint), I didn't. The curious can see these versions on the wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PatrickBarnes/Logo -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Nov 10 09:57:27 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:27:27 +0530 Subject: New Fedora Logo and Fedora Forum discussions Message-ID: <43731987.9080308@redhat.com> Hi http://fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=84424 regards Rahul From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Nov 10 10:08:37 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:38:37 +0530 Subject: Fedora Logo - Spreading the news, licensing Message-ID: <43731C25.3050505@redhat.com> Hi So the Logo has been decided upon. We need to announce that and spread the news. Should that coincide with Fedora Foundation announcements? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/SpreadingNews Some questions: What about the word mark?. Same as the original draft? What are font and logo licensing terms? . How broad should they be?. regards Rahul From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Nov 10 12:53:03 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 04:53:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil In-Reply-To: <1131593040.4896.25.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20051110125304.78247.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> David Barzilay wrote: > OK Guys and Gals, > I also love jokes, but who can actually make this happen > and create the Brazilian Fedora users list? Surely not I. ;-> "If you build it (that list), they will come." -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From rodrigopadula at sagraluzzatto.com.br Thu Nov 10 14:16:27 2005 From: rodrigopadula at sagraluzzatto.com.br (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:16:27 -0200 Subject: FEDORA PROJECT BRAZIL Message-ID: <4373563B.6020308@sagraluzzatto.com.br> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 We will launch in briefing the official site of Brazilian Fedora Project. I found a good server for hosting of the site (http://www.chihost.com/vipplan.php). I had an idea to finance the Brazilian project, are thinking about ordering to manufacture adhesive and shirts of the Fedora Core to commercialize to collect money for the Project. Exists some restriction? I can use the current logo? - -- +================================================+ RODRIGO PADULA DE OLIVEIRA (o- BACHAREL EM SISTEMAS DE INFORMA??O //\ FACULDADE METODISTA GRANBERY - FMG V_/_ PostgreSQL - PHP - Linux +================================================+ Membro Fundador do Gunix Linux http://www.gunix.com.br -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDc1Y68arYxsJpZ0URAqFBAJ9feWcvdgtrI83iu5Sn65y5MDf4wwCgrpvR mGWdE/P9OPGvIurTyorXTE4= =QlQ3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gdk at redhat.com Thu Nov 10 15:26:45 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:26:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Logo lessons In-Reply-To: <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: To reiterate: the logo is done. I know that everyone would like "just a little more time," but a little more time will satisfy no one, because "a little more time" will not result in substantial changes. It's time to put this episode behind us, and figure out what we've learned. As the new logo continues to make its way through the world, the opinions will vary widely. As always, the people who hate the new logo will be the ones who voice their opinions the loudest. Get ready to hear that the logo is a horrorshow, because you'll hear it a lot -- for about a week. Again: the community will not rally round the flag, or refuse to rally round the flag, because this logo is or isn't perfect. They will, however, judge us on how we chose to come up with this logo. If we made some mistakes, and I believe we did, then we should acknowledge them. I think that Jef is correct in his analysis. In hindsight, we should have: a. Had more than one concept for the community to examine; b. Advertised more widely that we were working on the logo -- and also, advertising that the place for those logo discussions was this mailing list. So we'll learn those lessons and we'll move forward. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Wed, 9 Nov 2005, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On 11/9/05, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > * Should we have gone through more iterations, or would more iterations > > have dragged things out even longer? > > Strictly speaking I think neither. I think the missing element isn't > iterations or time per iteration.. but an aspect of choice, limited > choice. > > Whether it be a discussion of default background, or codename, or > logo. I'd like to see 2 or 3 reasonable choices presented for feedback > before the final decision. > > To me most discussion should run sort of like this: > > 1) very free-form brain-storming discussion with lots of crazy crap > from this debate comes a sense of bounds as to constraints on the > solution space. > The more variety of out of bounds ideas you can generate the > better you understand > the boundary of the problem. And you hope to get a sense of > important themes that a > solution should try to incorporate.This is the discussion that > puts the item on the map > as an action item. No-one should expect a solution to come fully > formed from > this discussion. > 2) applying the constraints, task a team or individual to spin up 2 > or 3 solutions which > individually meet the constraints but provide different > interpretations as to mix of > important themes. Make sure its clear how the final decision is > going to be made at this > point. > 3) focused feedback discussion on those specific 2 or 3 choices. > This allows for some ability to compare and contrast between the > presented choices, > instead of degrading into a simple "this sucks." Most likely, all > choices will be equally > recieved across the spectrum of interested people.. publicly > validating the fact that any > of the set of choices will serve equally well/poorly. > 4) final decision is made however was decided in step 2. > > If we fell down in this discussion, its in the fact that we only had > one draft for consideration which met the constraints at step 2. > > -jef > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From chitlesh at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 15:38:04 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:38:04 +0000 Subject: FEDORA PROJECT BRAZIL In-Reply-To: <4373563B.6020308@sagraluzzatto.com.br> References: <4373563B.6020308@sagraluzzatto.com.br> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511100738o532bd5bbh57158e4d6333288d@mail.gmail.com> By the way how come fedora can ship these t-shirts for free? Red hat sponsoring or any other company ? Chitlesh GOORAH On 11/10/05, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > We will launch in briefing the official site of Brazilian Fedora Project. > I found a good server for hosting of the site > (http://www.chihost.com/vipplan.php). > > I had an idea to finance the Brazilian project, are thinking about > ordering to manufacture adhesive and shirts of the Fedora Core to > commercialize to collect money for the Project. > > Exists some restriction? I can use the current logo? > -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Nov 10 15:41:45 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:11:45 +0530 Subject: Logo lessons In-Reply-To: References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43736A39.4030001@redhat.com> Hi > a. Had more than one concept for the community to examine; > > I agree with this. > b. Advertised more widely that we were working on the logo -- and > also, advertising that the place for those logo discussions > was this mailing list. > > We really need to think about how to do this better in generic terms. How do we ensure that the initiatives, new projects and sub projects, upcoming releases, updates and various other news bits like reviews, PR etc reach the community in a better way? I have added a proposal to the schedule to be discussed during the upcoming meetings http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Schedule regards Rahul From jspaleta at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 15:41:42 2005 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:41:42 -0500 Subject: Logo lessons In-Reply-To: References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910511100741u48462189gb6f26ea459040bb8@mail.gmail.com> On 11/10/05, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > b. Advertised more widely that we were working on the logo -- and > also, advertising that the place for those logo discussions > was this mailing list. If only we had known about Wulf's absolutely burning desire to dissiminate information through the blogosphere 4 months ago. Now that he's made a belated appearance.. I suggest we shackle him with some sort of official sounding title and make him accountable for getting the word out about other marketing initiatives that are in process now. The user testimonial collection concept spring easily to mind as something Wulf could wax eloquent about right now across a variety of mediums and drive a summary of community input back to the marketting group and have it actually be timely. -jef"tag you're it"spaleta From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Nov 10 15:46:44 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:16:44 +0530 Subject: FEDORA PROJECT BRAZIL In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0511100738o532bd5bbh57158e4d6333288d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4373563B.6020308@sagraluzzatto.com.br> <13dbfe4f0511100738o532bd5bbh57158e4d6333288d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43736B64.90606@redhat.com> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > By the way how come fedora can ship these t-shirts for free? > Red hat sponsoring or any other company ? > Chitlesh GOORAH Red Hat does sponsor such efforts. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Ambassadors http://fedoraproject.org/forms/AmbassadorForm.html regards Rahul From chitlesh at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 15:50:25 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:50:25 +0000 Subject: FEDORA PROJECT BRAZIL In-Reply-To: <43736B64.90606@redhat.com> References: <4373563B.6020308@sagraluzzatto.com.br> <13dbfe4f0511100738o532bd5bbh57158e4d6333288d@mail.gmail.com> <43736B64.90606@redhat.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511100750o4f2e4666i46dc0f81496dc2a5@mail.gmail.com> Last night, ive requested 30 dvds and 30 t-shirts normally, i should have an e-mail to confirm shipment but till now nothing. is it automated? Chitlesh GOORAH On 11/10/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > > By the way how come fedora can ship these t-shirts for free? > > Red hat sponsoring or any other company ? > > Chitlesh GOORAH > > Red Hat does sponsor such efforts. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Ambassadors > http://fedoraproject.org/forms/AmbassadorForm.html > > regards > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdk at redhat.com Thu Nov 10 15:54:35 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:54:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: Logo lessons In-Reply-To: <604aa7910511100741u48462189gb6f26ea459040bb8@mail.gmail.com> References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910511100741u48462189gb6f26ea459040bb8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: LOL! Mr. Wulf, looks like you're being drafted. That's what you get for being so damned eloquent. :) --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Thu, 10 Nov 2005, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On 11/10/05, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > b. Advertised more widely that we were working on the logo -- and > > also, advertising that the place for those logo discussions > > was this mailing list. > > If only we had known about Wulf's absolutely burning desire to > dissiminate information through the blogosphere 4 months ago. Now > that he's made a belated appearance.. I suggest we shackle him with > some sort of official sounding title and make him accountable for > getting the word out about other marketing initiatives that are in > process now. The user testimonial collection concept spring easily to > mind as something Wulf could wax eloquent about right now across a > variety of mediums and drive a summary of community input back to the > marketting group and have it actually be timely. > > -jef"tag you're it"spaleta > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Nov 10 16:09:44 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:39:44 +0530 Subject: FEDORA PROJECT BRAZIL In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0511100750o4f2e4666i46dc0f81496dc2a5@mail.gmail.com> References: <4373563B.6020308@sagraluzzatto.com.br> <13dbfe4f0511100738o532bd5bbh57158e4d6333288d@mail.gmail.com> <43736B64.90606@redhat.com> <13dbfe4f0511100750o4f2e4666i46dc0f81496dc2a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <437370C8.1040500@redhat.com> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > Last night, > ive requested 30 dvds and 30 t-shirts > normally, i should have an e-mail to confirm shipment > but till now nothing. > is it automated? No. Its not automated and the processing takes time as indicated in the page. If takes way too much time, send a note to alex AT fedoraproject.org regards Rahul From chitlesh at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 16:59:07 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 16:59:07 +0000 Subject: Frankfurt: Linux World Expo Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511100859o41d32704g291a5a3a332b57df@mail.gmail.com> hello again, are you people heading to frankfurt for the linuxworldexpo next tuesday? or will fedora be part of the red hat ream ? I will be there, but as a normal guest. Chitlesh GOORAH-- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sopwith at redhat.com Thu Nov 10 17:46:49 2005 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:46:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: FEDORA PROJECT BRAZIL In-Reply-To: <4373563B.6020308@sagraluzzatto.com.br> References: <4373563B.6020308@sagraluzzatto.com.br> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Nov 2005, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > We will launch in briefing the official site of Brazilian Fedora Project. > I found a good server for hosting of the site > (http://www.chihost.com/vipplan.php). Hey Rodrigo, would you or other Brazilian Fedora hackers talk with David Barzilay about hosting the site for free on the Fedora machines? It is helpful to have official Fedora sites hosted together to enable better integration between the sites... Best, -- Elliot From tejasdinkar at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 19:06:01 2005 From: tejasdinkar at gmail.com (Tejas Dinkar) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 00:36:01 +0530 Subject: SDK running under Fedora core 4 for the Cell Broadband Engine Message-ID: <43739A19.80401@gmail.com> I'm too lazy and too sleepy to figure out if this is useful, or if it is even relevent. It was on /. and had the words Fedora Core 4 in it http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/10/1318202 Tejas Dinkar From stickster at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 21:35:07 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 16:35:07 -0500 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> References: <436EAA70.3010206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1131658507.2970.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2005-11-07 at 06:44 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Here is a set of modifications of the first proposal and a new one by > Diana Fong > > http://www.isity.net/appeal/ > > Courtesy: http://fedoraproject.org/people I really like Mod02. It keeps the symbol on the same footing as the name, and leaves room underneath for further branding ("legacy," et al.). I appreciate the various "Alt" renderings -- great work, Diana -- but don't think they provide any better branding than the simplicity of Mod02. As for people who say they have to spend too much time scratching their heads about the "infinity" logo, well, at least now you'll certainly remember it. :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jwulf at redhat.com Thu Nov 10 22:32:33 2005 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:32:33 +1000 Subject: Logo lessons In-Reply-To: References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910511100741u48462189gb6f26ea459040bb8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4373CA81.9040604@redhat.com> Heh, thanks for the shout out Jef, and the guidance. Much appreciated. Greg, let me send you my resume and put in an official sounding application for the official sounding title, with Jef as my referee. Testimonials it is. Let me use my powers for good, and try to coordinate my madness a little better so that people don't have to change their pants or take a double dose of their medication after I fire up the browser (sorry about that guys...) On the logo, let me make a humble contribution to the process dialog. Let me preface this by saying: "In my humble opinion" Let's let the community mother our little tyke before we present him to the wider world. Let us comb his hair down, wipe that smudge off his face with a handkerchief and straighten his shirt collar before sending him out on stage. Let us stand around him and say: "That's our little boy!". Someone else will be standing there and may be thinking: "(He sure is one butt-ugly mofo, but....) yep, that's our boy alright - you go get 'em champ!" Whatever differences we might have within the community over the logo are our business, and we talk about that at home. Once the logo goes live to the wider world, if anyone mouths off over it, that person above will the first to snarl: "You watch your mouth about my kid!" Because then it's no longer about visual design, it's about community. It's about sitting around the table on an afternoon with a pot of a hot drink and sharing feelings, swapping nonsense stories, and mouthing off about what you think about the world. That logo is not simply a collection of vectors or rasterized bits, it's a visual representation of our community. Let's help to percolate that, and try to avoid people feeling that they were left out somehow. When the logo is unveiled to the world, our community is in the know, part of the surprise, rather than the surprised. Whatever aspects could have been done better up to this point are already there, but I think a significant opportunity is still open to us at this point. Anyway, that's my 10c contribution to the last leg of the process. Others are driving this process, I'm just giving suggestions from the cheap seats. Now, let me see about these Testimonials.... --josh Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > LOL! > > Mr. Wulf, looks like you're being drafted. That's what you get for being > so damned eloquent. :) > > --g > > _____________________ ____________________________________________ > Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have > Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the > Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the > ] [ dumb. --mcluhan > > On Thu, 10 Nov 2005, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > >> On 11/10/05, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: >> >>> b. Advertised more widely that we were working on the logo -- and >>> also, advertising that the place for those logo discussions >>> was this mailing list. >>> >> If only we had known about Wulf's absolutely burning desire to >> dissiminate information through the blogosphere 4 months ago. Now >> that he's made a belated appearance.. I suggest we shackle him with >> some sort of official sounding title and make him accountable for >> getting the word out about other marketing initiatives that are in >> process now. The user testimonial collection concept spring easily to >> mind as something Wulf could wax eloquent about right now across a >> variety of mediums and drive a summary of community input back to the >> marketting group and have it actually be timely. >> >> -jef"tag you're it"spaleta >> >> -- >> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list >> Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list >> >> > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From jspaleta at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 22:47:49 2005 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 17:47:49 -0500 Subject: Logo lessons In-Reply-To: <4373CA81.9040604@redhat.com> References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910511100741u48462189gb6f26ea459040bb8@mail.gmail.com> <4373CA81.9040604@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910511101447j7bf62e6bme57bf6c759a6f3e2@mail.gmail.com> On 11/10/05, Joshua Wulf wrote: > Testimonials it is. Let me use my powers for good, and try to coordinate > my madness a little better so that people don't have to change their > pants or take a double dose of their medication after I fire up the > browser (sorry about that guys...) See the thread from Oct 24th "Fedora user testimonials" and get in touch with people who are already talking about it. John Mahowald seems to be the defacto "owner" of the idea right now. Though this hasn't actually been tasked as an action item as far as i know. -jef From jwulf at redhat.com Thu Nov 10 23:06:06 2005 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:06:06 +1000 Subject: Talking Points In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4373D25E.20105@redhat.com> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > OK, gang. I'm working on a set of talking points for Fedora. Think of > these as "sound bites". Imagine having a deck of cards, each with a few > sentences, each of which describes an important Fedora message. > > Here's the start: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/TalkingPoints > > I could really use some help. > > Either: > > a. Fix a FIXME; or > b. Add a talking point that you think is vitally important. > > Remember: NO MORE THAN A SHORT PARAGRAPH, unless you ABSOLUTELY can't help > yourself, in which case I'll probably edit it down brutally. :) > > --g > > _____________________ ____________________________________________ > Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have > Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the > Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the > ] [ dumb. --mcluhan > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > Testimonials will be a good source of these.... From barzilay at redhat.com Fri Nov 11 01:11:30 2005 From: barzilay at redhat.com (David Barzilay) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:11:30 +1000 Subject: FEDORA PROJECT BRAZIL In-Reply-To: References: <4373563B.6020308@sagraluzzatto.com.br> Message-ID: <1131671490.4964.6.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> Hi Elliot, Thanks for you e-mail. We have been talking (Rodrigo, and I) and we'll probably go with this option. As this has been a long road to something supposedly simple, some guys are very eager to make it happen ;) Thanks for your support, Dave Barzilay On Thu, 2005-11-10 at 12:46 -0500, Elliot Lee wrote: > On Thu, 10 Nov 2005, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > > > We will launch in briefing the official site of Brazilian Fedora Project. > > I found a good server for hosting of the site > > (http://www.chihost.com/vipplan.php). > > Hey Rodrigo, would you or other Brazilian Fedora hackers talk with David > Barzilay about hosting the site for free on the > Fedora machines? > > It is helpful to have official Fedora sites hosted together to enable > better integration between the sites... From stickster at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 14:46:33 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:46:33 -0500 Subject: Logo lessons In-Reply-To: References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1131720393.2964.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2005-11-10 at 10:26 -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > To reiterate: the logo is done. I know that everyone would like "just a > little more time," but a little more time will satisfy no one, because "a > little more time" will not result in substantial changes. It's time to > put this episode behind us, and figure out what we've learned. Is there a good chance the new logo will replace the current red fedora icon on the "Applications" menu in FC5? Should I BZ this or is it already underway? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Nov 11 15:12:13 2005 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:12:13 +0200 Subject: Logo lessons In-Reply-To: <1131720393.2964.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> <1131720393.2964.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4374B4CD.7040901@nicubunu.ro> Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Is there a good chance the new logo will replace the current red fedora > icon on the "Applications" menu in FC5? Should I BZ this or is it > already underway? https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2005-November/msg00312.html fedora-logos-1.1.33-1 --------------------- * Thu Nov 10 2005 John (J5) Palmieri - 1.1.33-1 - Add symlinks for the panel icons to be the fedora logos * Thu Nov 10 2005 John (J5) Palmieri - 1.1.32-1 - Add new fedora logos to pixmap and icons/hicolor redhat-artwork-0.130-1 ---------------------- * Thu Nov 03 2005 John (J5) Palmieri 0.129-4 - Add fedora logo instead of the redhat hat -- nicu my hats collection: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/hats Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From gerold at lugd.org Fri Nov 11 15:13:32 2005 From: gerold at lugd.org (Gerold Kassube) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:13:32 +0100 (CET) Subject: Logo lessons In-Reply-To: <1131720393.2964.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> <1131720393.2964.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3024.217.193.142.66.1131722012.squirrel@www.gbc.net> please excuse, .... I know, the logo discussion is already done, but today I stumbled on http://www.freewarenetz.de/ which lookes realy similar ... Only wanna you you that ;-) Kind regards Gerold From sundaram at redhat.com Fri Nov 11 15:16:36 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:46:36 +0530 Subject: Logo lessons In-Reply-To: <3024.217.193.142.66.1131722012.squirrel@www.gbc.net> References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> <1131720393.2964.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3024.217.193.142.66.1131722012.squirrel@www.gbc.net> Message-ID: <4374B5D4.8020206@redhat.com> Gerold Kassube wrote: >please excuse, .... > >I know, the logo discussion is already done, but today I stumbled on >http://www.freewarenetz.de/ which lookes realy similar ... > >Only wanna you you that ;-) > > I am sure there are some logos which look similar. Thanks for the note though. regards rahul From tejasdinkar at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 15:13:33 2005 From: tejasdinkar at gmail.com (Tejas Dinkar) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:43:33 +0530 Subject: Logo lessons In-Reply-To: <3024.217.193.142.66.1131722012.squirrel@www.gbc.net> References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> <1131720393.2964.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3024.217.193.142.66.1131722012.squirrel@www.gbc.net> Message-ID: <4374B51D.5090505@gmail.com> Gerold Kassube wrote: >I know, the logo discussion is already done, but today I stumbled on >http://www.freewarenetz.de/ which lookes realy similar ... > It isn't so similar that people will confuse the two. It is simply a f in a silver circle Tejas Dinkar From gdk at redhat.com Fri Nov 11 15:16:15 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 10:16:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Logo lessons In-Reply-To: <1131720393.2964.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> <1131720393.2964.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Yeah, we need to get that stuff moving for FC5. I'd say bugzilla it. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Fri, 11 Nov 2005, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Thu, 2005-11-10 at 10:26 -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > To reiterate: the logo is done. I know that everyone would like "just a > > little more time," but a little more time will satisfy no one, because "a > > little more time" will not result in substantial changes. It's time to > > put this episode behind us, and figure out what we've learned. > > Is there a good chance the new logo will replace the current red fedora > icon on the "Applications" menu in FC5? Should I BZ this or is it > already underway? > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ > From sundaram at redhat.com Fri Nov 11 15:23:43 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:53:43 +0530 Subject: Logo lessons In-Reply-To: References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> <1131720393.2964.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4374B77F.8090400@redhat.com> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: >Yeah, we need to get that stuff moving for FC5. I'd say bugzilla it. > >--g > > The logo changes are already reflected in rawhide. Any plans to do a formal announcement for this logo? regards Rahul From gdk at redhat.com Fri Nov 11 15:24:40 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 10:24:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Logo lessons In-Reply-To: <4374B77F.8090400@redhat.com> References: <34727867-9C19-4BF1-884F-5609DEA897DE@capstrat.com> <604aa7910511091153k55d18d2bub9f6cbd74945c971@mail.gmail.com> <1131720393.2964.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4374B77F.8090400@redhat.com> Message-ID: There will be an article discussing the new logo in the upcoming Red Hat Magazine. That's all that's planned currently. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Fri, 11 Nov 2005, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > >Yeah, we need to get that stuff moving for FC5. I'd say bugzilla it. > > > >--g > > > > > The logo changes are already reflected in rawhide. Any plans to do a > formal announcement for this logo? > > regards > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From lxmaier at gmail.com Sun Nov 13 01:54:13 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 20:54:13 -0500 Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil In-Reply-To: <20051110125304.78247.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1131593040.4896.25.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <20051110125304.78247.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270511121754q32a8fcedu745e9d8babd66c46@mail.gmail.com> Okay, I think I have the authority to make this happen and this is how I see this happening (and please tell me if you think i am wrong): As Fedora community is a global one, and regions can all learn from one another, I see no benefit in breaking the lists down by country, but rather by language. So I suggest that we have a PT list for all Portuguese speakers, because even if there are large language differences between different dialects, the information will still flow, and the benefit from exchanging this information globally might outweigh the language difficulties. What do you think? a On 11/10/05, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > David Barzilay wrote: > > OK Guys and Gals, > > I also love jokes, but who can actually make this happen > > and create the Brazilian Fedora users list? > > Surely not I. ;-> > > "If you build it (that list), they will come." > > > > -- > Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail > mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any > http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From sundaram at redhat.com Sun Nov 13 01:59:51 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 07:29:51 +0530 Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil In-Reply-To: <7f617d270511121754q32a8fcedu745e9d8babd66c46@mail.gmail.com> References: <1131593040.4896.25.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <20051110125304.78247.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7f617d270511121754q32a8fcedu745e9d8babd66c46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43769E17.2020206@redhat.com> Alex Maier wrote: >Okay, I think I have the authority to make this happen and this is how >I see this happening (and please tell me if you think i am wrong): > >As Fedora community is a global one, and regions can all learn from >one another, I see no benefit in breaking the lists down by country, >but rather by language. > >So I suggest that we have a PT list for all Portuguese speakers, >because even if there are large language differences between different >dialects, the information will still flow, and the benefit from >exchanging this information globally might outweigh the language >difficulties. > >What do you think? > Yes. Languages lists are usually straightforward. Country lists and worse language sublists is sometimes sensitive and political. We really dont want to get involved in that mess. regards Rahul From lxmaier at gmail.com Sun Nov 13 02:04:34 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:04:34 -0500 Subject: FEDORA PROJECT BRAZIL In-Reply-To: <437370C8.1040500@redhat.com> References: <4373563B.6020308@sagraluzzatto.com.br> <13dbfe4f0511100738o532bd5bbh57158e4d6333288d@mail.gmail.com> <43736B64.90606@redhat.com> <13dbfe4f0511100750o4f2e4666i46dc0f81496dc2a5@mail.gmail.com> <437370C8.1040500@redhat.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270511121804r56099b5dpe9ab2f3a63cc1481@mail.gmail.com> Correct. To be more precise, it is Alex-automated. I have the DVDs ready and will mail them out on Monday or Tuesday. We are working on some automation, but it might take a while. Cheers, a On 11/10/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > > Last night, > > ive requested 30 dvds and 30 t-shirts > > normally, i should have an e-mail to confirm shipment > > but till now nothing. > > is it automated? > > No. Its not automated and the processing takes time as indicated in the > page. If takes way too much time, send a note to alex AT fedoraproject.org > > regards > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From lxmaier at gmail.com Sun Nov 13 02:14:30 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:14:30 -0500 Subject: Frankfurt: Linux World Expo In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0511100859o41d32704g291a5a3a332b57df@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0511100859o41d32704g291a5a3a332b57df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270511121814i4aa04d2dmfe5b577bb3908338@mail.gmail.com> Red Hat will be present at LWE DE, but Fedora will not. Please report to the list how the show goes. Cheers, a On 11/10/05, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > hello again, > > are you people heading to frankfurt for the linuxworldexpo next tuesday? > or will fedora be part of the red hat ream ? > > I will be there, but as a normal guest. > > Chitlesh GOORAH-- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From lxmaier at gmail.com Sun Nov 13 02:16:49 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:16:49 -0500 Subject: Fedora Logo - Spreading the news, licensing In-Reply-To: <43731C25.3050505@redhat.com> References: <43731C25.3050505@redhat.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270511121816s46702e95tf0134fb36288e8dd@mail.gmail.com> Yes Rahul, we are almost there. Be ready to go ahead and spread the news soon. I will send a separate alert to both lists (sorry for cross-posting) to make sure we all are ready :) a On 11/10/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > So the Logo has been decided upon. We need to announce that and spread > the news. Should that coincide with Fedora Foundation announcements? > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/SpreadingNews > > Some questions: > > What about the word mark?. Same as the original draft? > What are font and logo licensing terms? . How broad should they be?. > > regards > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From lxmaier at gmail.com Sun Nov 13 02:27:14 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:27:14 -0500 Subject: User Testimonials Message-ID: <7f617d270511121827v1ef6f4b1gc1d6203878e29e80@mail.gmail.com> Josh, John, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/UserTestimonials This is currently the page to post user testimonials. If you wish to change the format or do whatever, please feel free to--I have only started this page to have a place for the testimonials to live until someone takes ownership. Would be cool if you guys would own this project. Cheers, a On 11/10/05, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On 11/10/05, Joshua Wulf wrote: > > Testimonials it is. Let me use my powers for good, and try to coordinate > > my madness a little better so that people don't have to change their > > pants or take a double dose of their medication after I fire up the > > browser (sorry about that guys...) > > See the thread from Oct 24th "Fedora user testimonials" and get in > touch with people who are already talking about it. John Mahowald > seems to be the defacto "owner" of the idea right now. Though this > hasn't actually been tasked as an action item as far as i know. > > -jef > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From tejasdinkar at gmail.com Sun Nov 13 18:31:41 2005 From: tejasdinkar at gmail.com (Tejas Dinkar) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 00:01:41 +0530 Subject: http://foss.in/2005 slides Message-ID: <4377868D.3010509@gmail.com> Ok, the slides for my talk at foss.in/2005 (first draft) can be found over here: http://tejas.nipl.net/pub/Presentation.odp http://mutt.in/~tejas/Presentation.odp feel free to yell back about what a terrible job I'm doing, and how I can't spell ;-) Anyway, tell me what I can modify to represent Fedora Better Tejas Dinkar (gja) From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 06:47:33 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:17:33 +0530 Subject: New Fedora Logo : Fedora forum discussions Message-ID: <43783305.4020805@redhat.com> Hi http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?p=400658#post400658 Interesting information - " By the way: Fedora also means "Gift of God". Fedora is a Greek variant of Theodora, which means gift of God :-)" Since the logo isnt associated with a hat, it makes sense to use this meaning in Fedora messages. regards Rahul From nman64 at n-man.com Mon Nov 14 08:06:27 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 02:06:27 -0600 Subject: New Fedora Logo : Fedora forum discussions In-Reply-To: <43783305.4020805@redhat.com> References: <43783305.4020805@redhat.com> Message-ID: <43784583.2020907@n-man.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?p=400658#post400658 > > Interesting information - > > " By the way: Fedora also means "Gift of God". Fedora is a Greek > variant of Theodora, which means gift of God :-)" > > Since the logo isnt associated with a hat, it makes sense to use this > meaning in Fedora messages. > > regards > Rahul I really don't think we want to tread in that territory. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Nov 14 08:32:55 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 00:32:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora: A gift from the G(r)eek gods! -- WAS: New Fedora Logo : Fedora forum discussions In-Reply-To: <43783305.4020805@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20051114083255.45884.qmail@web34102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Interesting information - > " By the way: Fedora also means "Gift of God". Fedora is a > Greek variant of Theodora, which means gift of God :-)" Excellent discovery! One of my big problems with Fedora as a separate entity from Red Hat, from a legal standpoint, was the use of the name, but not anything related to the hat. I don't blame anyone for it, I just saw it as a major, future issue should anyone offer commercial services, products, etc... built around Fedora, while still abiding by all Fedora requirements. It would really put the project into a pickle. But by finding another, visual representation of what a "Fedora" is, if it is so adopted, Fedora can have a sound, unambiguous, well-defined visual association with the name. Any entity who tries to > Since the logo isnt associated with a hat, it makes sense > to use this meaning in Fedora messages. I would focus on the historical Greek meaning in the context of "a gift from the gods." That way there is not the associated emotional, theological or political garbage that comes with it -- most everyone feel safe and easy since the overwhelming majority of the world believes in only one God, and the Greek theology is considered only history. Now let's play on that ... - A gift from the G(r)eek god Torvalda? Now line up the Geek gods, Torvalds, Cox, Morton, etc... Now talk about some great ideas for box art!!! - Before there could be Enterprise Linux ... Oh man, start the whole "epic build-up"! - The "f" is the lower-case Phi in the Greek alphabet Hmmm, there's gotta be some stories there too! Keel it *SMALL* g and *PLURAL* and we don't have a problem? Patrick Barnes wrote: > I really don't think we want to tread in that territory. Don't go into the "big G" territory, I agree. But com'mon, this is *GOLD*! Heck, you can play off of the outcast of it all! "In a world where the majority worships only one god and does only his bidding, and all others are considered heretics, a band of outcasts all over the world works together ..." Man, this stuff is *GOLD*! You keep is "paraody-level" and it's not a problem! And most importantly, it provides a direct reference that is completely independent of Fedora as a hat. That's what those of us who offer commercial services, products, etc... built around Fedora _need_! -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Nov 14 08:39:49 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 00:39:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora: A gift from the G(r)eek gods! -- WAS: New Fedora Logo : Fedora forum discussions Message-ID: <20051114083949.22687.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > - A gift from the G(r)eek god Torvalda? > Now line up the Geek gods, Torvalds, Cox, Morton, etc... > Now talk about some great ideas for box art!!! > ... > "In a world where the majority worships only one god and > does only his bidding, and all others are considered > heretics, a band of outcasts all over the world works > together ..." > > Man, this stuff is *GOLD*! You keep is "paraody-level" and > it's not a problem! Seriously now, if you keep it "parody-level" you don't have to worry about too many trademarks. We need serious characterizations of Linus, Cox, Morton, etc... -- stuff that is not a clear representation of them (for ownership/rights issues), but still gets the point across -- that would make some great box art! IN FACT, LET'S TAKE THIS ONE STEP FURTHER! You could call "the supposed one god" of software a fraud. And one way Torvalda and others dispelled the notion of being gods was by creating something and given mere mortals to use, because he was no better than them! Com'mon man, this stuff is *GOLD*! > And most importantly, it provides a direct reference that > is completely independent of Fedora as a hat. That's what > those of us who offer commercial services, products, etc... > built around Fedora _need_! This was my primary issue with Fedora(TM) prior, that visual relationship. With this, it totally _removes_ the issue! Theodora, Fedora; Torvalds, Torvalda, etc... Com'mon, get in the spirit of the comical aspects of this! There is _so_much_ to build on! -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Nov 14 08:56:43 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 00:56:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora: A gift from the G(r)eek gods! -- Feodora, Theodora and the Byanztine Empre In-Reply-To: <20051114083949.22687.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20051114085643.50279.qmail@web34102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> FYI, I did a little Googling and the name is "Feodora" that means "God's Gift." Theodora is the female name of Theodore. The Greek relationship comes in to the Byzantine empire. If anything, the Byzantine Empire -- after centuries -- became almost a bridge between western and eastern cultures, believes, etc... It adopted many aspects of cultures, such as the removal of worship of idols (BG anyone?), etc... Art and life transgressed cultural barriers like never before. Now I do _not_ suggest that anyone consider this with regard to playing off the Theodora/Feodora origin. What I'm saying is if someone _wanted_ to demonize any parody of Feodora, they would only be exposing the fact that Byzantine was a bridge of many cultures, and probably the best example of cultural moderation. "... as people thought Feodora was a gift from a new god, but only because they had been taught that software came only from the gods -- namely one god. It was only through Feodora that the people learned the truth. That the creators of software were not the first, for software was of man for man, and those who stole and plundered the first software put themselves wrongly on a pesdestal as gods. Feodora branches across cultures, across the globe, and brought the best of all software known to man under one, for all. Feodora showed the world not to worship false gods who did not create software, but to appreciate those whose merits created the software for all to use. A world of many cultures, united under one goal ..." -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 09:03:17 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:33:17 +0530 Subject: New Fedora Logo : Fedora forum discussions In-Reply-To: <43784583.2020907@n-man.com> References: <43783305.4020805@redhat.com> <43784583.2020907@n-man.com> Message-ID: <437852D5.1050507@redhat.com> Patrick Barnes wrote: >Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > >>Hi >> >>http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?p=400658#post400658 >> >>Interesting information - >> >>" By the way: Fedora also means "Gift of God". Fedora is a Greek >>variant of Theodora, which means gift of God :-)" >> >>Since the logo isnt associated with a hat, it makes sense to use this >>meaning in Fedora messages. >> >>regards >>Rahul >> >> >I really don't think we want to tread in that territory. > On second thought, you are right. That's a can of words. regards Rahul From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 09:04:53 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:34:53 +0530 Subject: New Fedora Logo : Fedora forum discussions In-Reply-To: <437852D5.1050507@redhat.com> References: <43783305.4020805@redhat.com> <43784583.2020907@n-man.com> <437852D5.1050507@redhat.com> Message-ID: <43785335.103@redhat.com> Hi >> > On second thought, you are right. That's a can of words. err. I meant worms of course regards Rahul From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Nov 14 09:07:48 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 01:07:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: New Fedora Logo : Fedora forum discussions In-Reply-To: <43785335.103@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20051114090749.53130.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On second thought, you are right. That's a can of words. > err. I meant worms of course I think playing off of the "Feodora" name would be good. We could quickly make it about the fact that it's _not_ a gift from the gods or "God's gift." In fact, it's more about not being from a "god" for that matter ... unlike other software. ;-> -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 09:21:28 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:51:28 +0530 Subject: Logo FAQ Message-ID: <43785718.3010105@redhat.com> Hi I have added a FAQ on the logo. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/LogoIdeas regards Rahul From bill at dunriteprinting.com Mon Nov 14 14:52:41 2005 From: bill at dunriteprinting.com (Dunrite Printing) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 09:52:41 -0500 Subject: tshirts Message-ID: <200511141553.jAEFrQ0p013999@mx3.redhat.com> I was at fedoraforum.org reading about the t-shirts that are available from expresscafe, and someone referred me to this list. I am interested in printing t-shirts for fedora. I have been in and out of the project since it started, and I recently just got back into it with core 4. I am 34 years old, an IT administrator by day, and I own a Screen Printing business on the side. I have been in the printing industry for almost ten years, and owned the screen printing business for about 5 years going on 6. Anyways, this is not a hopeless plug for business, I don't need additional business, I stay busy enough, but I do believe in the quality of the shirts my shop can produce, and I want a high quality shirt available for not only myself, but everyone. You can check out my webpage if you want to know about my business. Keep in mind I do not update the website or even sell off it anymore, I normally stick with resellers, schools, fire houses etc. A couple of my bigger clients right now are Coke and Little Caesars. I am the screen printer, I have a couple of people that work for me, but there would be no middleman, and I would be printing the shirts myself, so the quality would be guaranteed. We could also have other than white colored t-shirts, since this is a real screen printing process, not an inkjet or anything like that. How could I find out more about who I should talk to about printing t-shirts? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sgk284 at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 18:08:20 2005 From: sgk284 at gmail.com (Stephen Krenzel) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 13:08:20 -0500 Subject: Fedora: A gift from the G(r)eek gods! -- WAS: New Fedora Logo : Fedora forum discussions In-Reply-To: <20051114083949.22687.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051114083949.22687.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1fa01fe80511141008u63b7740as3886ba3f7513216f@mail.gmail.com> Considering the huge amount of controversy with evolution and ID recently in the states, we could have some fun calling Torvalds, Cox, Morton the intelligent designers. Either that or play off the fact that open source evolves. It could go either way as long as we keep it fun and in the spirit of a parody. I agree, associating this new meaning with the Fedora name could be gold. Regards, Steve On 11/14/05, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > > "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > > - A gift from the G(r)eek god Torvalda? > > Now line up the Geek gods, Torvalds, Cox, Morton, etc... > > Now talk about some great ideas for box art!!! > > ... > > "In a world where the majority worships only one god and > > does only his bidding, and all others are considered > > heretics, a band of outcasts all over the world works > > together ..." > > > > Man, this stuff is *GOLD*! You keep is "paraody-level" and > > it's not a problem! > > Seriously now, if you keep it "parody-level" you don't have > to worry about too many trademarks. We need serious > characterizations of Linus, Cox, Morton, etc... -- stuff that > is not a clear representation of them (for ownership/rights > issues), but still gets the point across -- that would make > some great box art! > > IN FACT, LET'S TAKE THIS ONE STEP FURTHER! > > You could call "the supposed one god" of software a fraud. > And one way Torvalda and others dispelled the notion of being > gods was by creating something and given mere mortals to use, > because he was no better than them! > > Com'mon man, this stuff is *GOLD*! > > > And most importantly, it provides a direct reference that > > is completely independent of Fedora as a hat. That's what > > those of us who offer commercial services, products, etc... > > built around Fedora _need_! > > This was my primary issue with Fedora(TM) prior, that visual > relationship. With this, it totally _removes_ the issue! > > Theodora, Fedora; Torvalds, Torvalda, etc... > Com'mon, get in the spirit of the comical aspects of this! > There is _so_much_ to build on! > > > -- > Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail > mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any > http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Nov 14 18:12:49 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:12:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora: A gift from the G(r)eek gods! -- WAS: New Fedora Logo : Fedora forum discussions In-Reply-To: <1fa01fe80511141008u63b7740as3886ba3f7513216f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051114181249.50777.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Stephen Krenzel wrote: > Considering the huge amount of controversy with evolution > and ID recently in the states, we could have some fun > calling Torvalds, Cox, Morton the intelligent designers. > Either that or play off the fact that open source evolves. Oh man, this just gets better! > It could go either way as long as we keep it fun > and in the spirit of a parody. > I agree, associating this new meaning with the Fedora name > could be gold. Parody, parody, parody. It works everytime! Red Hat used it to great success with Shadow Man and other things. We can be serious with the name (Fedora) from a professional standpoint. But with the origins and visuals and other things, you can have a lot of fun with Feodora, the "G(r)eek gods", etc... Was Fedora just the resulting evolution of Linux? Or of an intelligent design from the Geek gods? Damn, I love that! -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From thulshof at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 18:24:07 2005 From: thulshof at gmail.com (Thijs Hulshof) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:24:07 +0100 Subject: Fedora: A gift from the G(r)eek gods! -- WAS: New Fedora Logo : Fedora forum discussions In-Reply-To: <1fa01fe80511141008u63b7740as3886ba3f7513216f@mail.gmail.com> References: <20051114083949.22687.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1fa01fe80511141008u63b7740as3886ba3f7513216f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9590b2a80511141024q2dae6d02wae1eea45d890ce54@mail.gmail.com> Hi, It's funny that "Fedora" means "gift from a god", but I think we should not associate a God with Fedora. I don't think very religious groups will appreciate it. P.S.: I'm the guy who posted that definition on FedoraForum yesterday, I didn't expect that it would cause a new discussion on the Fedora-marketing-list :-) Regards, Thijs On 11/14/05, Stephen Krenzel wrote: > > Considering the huge amount of controversy with evolution and ID recently > in the states, we could have some fun calling Torvalds, Cox, Morton the > intelligent designers. Either that or play off the fact that open source > evolves. It could go either way as long as we keep it fun and in the spirit > of a parody. > > I agree, associating this new meaning with the Fedora name could be gold. Regards, > Steve > > On 11/14/05, Bryan J. Smith < b.j.smith at ieee.org> wrote: > > > > "Bryan J. Smith" < b.j.smith at ieee.org> wrote: > > > - A gift from the G(r)eek god Torvalda? > > > Now line up the Geek gods, Torvalds, Cox, Morton, etc... > > > Now talk about some great ideas for box art!!! > > > ... > > > "In a world where the majority worships only one god and > > > does only his bidding, and all others are considered > > > heretics, a band of outcasts all over the world works > > > together ..." > > > > > > Man, this stuff is *GOLD*! You keep is "paraody-level" and > > > it's not a problem! > > > > Seriously now, if you keep it "parody-level" you don't have > > to worry about too many trademarks. We need serious > > characterizations of Linus, Cox, Morton, etc... -- stuff that > > is not a clear representation of them (for ownership/rights > > issues), but still gets the point across -- that would make > > some great box art! > > > > IN FACT, LET'S TAKE THIS ONE STEP FURTHER! > > > > You could call "the supposed one god" of software a fraud. > > And one way Torvalda and others dispelled the notion of being > > gods was by creating something and given mere mortals to use, > > because he was no better than them! > > > > Com'mon man, this stuff is *GOLD*! > > > > > And most importantly, it provides a direct reference that > > > is completely independent of Fedora as a hat. That's what > > > those of us who offer commercial services, products, etc... > > > built around Fedora _need_! > > > > This was my primary issue with Fedora(TM) prior, that visual > > relationship. With this, it totally _removes_ the issue! > > > > Theodora, Fedora; Torvalds, Torvalda, etc... > > Com'mon, get in the spirit of the comical aspects of this! > > There is _so_much_ to build on! > > > > > > -- > > Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail > > mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any > > http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From byte at aeon.com.my Mon Nov 14 19:05:21 2005 From: byte at aeon.com.my (Colin Charles) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 06:05:21 +1100 Subject: Passing the baton to Alex Message-ID: <1131995121.3122.849.camel@potter.soho.bytebot.net> Hey all, A quick few things: - We are to have regular meetings every Thursday. - I'm passing the baton on to Alex, and dropping to co-Lead - In lieu of this, Alex will chair Thursday's meetings, with regards to my occassionally erratic schedule - I'll be getting to my tasks in due time - its all in the name of GTD[1] and good time management - I have a change in affiliation - I no longer am a professional bum, and apparently dig databases Alex, your hero, and mine! Give her a warm round of applause ;-) [1] - getting things done -- Colin Charles, http://www.bytebot.net/ From barzilay at redhat.com Tue Nov 15 04:37:22 2005 From: barzilay at redhat.com (David Barzilay) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 14:37:22 +1000 Subject: Fedora Users - Brazil In-Reply-To: <7f617d270511121754q32a8fcedu745e9d8babd66c46@mail.gmail.com> References: <1131593040.4896.25.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <20051110125304.78247.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7f617d270511121754q32a8fcedu745e9d8babd66c46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1132029442.14599.23.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> Hi Alex and list, On Sat, 2005-11-12 at 20:54 -0500, Alex Maier wrote: > Okay, I think I have the authority to make this happen and this is how > I see this happening (and please tell me if you think i am wrong): > > As Fedora community is a global one, and regions can all learn from > one another, I see no benefit in breaking the lists down by country, > but rather by language. Correct! > So I suggest that we have a PT list for all Portuguese speakers, > because even if there are large language differences between different > dialects, the information will still flow, and the benefit from > exchanging this information globally might outweigh the language > difficulties. Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese are different languages per se (caution: we are not dealing with different dialects here). >From my experience in the Fedora translation community, separate lists are the way to go. BTW, in the Localization arena (i18n-related projects) we got a master list, fedora-trans-list at redhat.com, for discussing overall translation issues in English, and also localized lists, like fedora- trans-pt_BR at redhat.com (for Brazilian Portuguese) for local matters. More details at: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/translations/ It has been working well and I do recommend this approach for the users lists. Thanks for listening, -- David Barzilay From jwulf at redhat.com Tue Nov 15 07:32:43 2005 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:32:43 +1000 Subject: Fedora: A gift from the G(r)eek gods! -- WAS: New Fedora Logo : Fedora forum discussions In-Reply-To: <20051114181249.50777.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051114181249.50777.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43798F1B.5010808@redhat.com> Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Was Fedora just the resulting evolution of Linux? > Or of an intelligent design from the Geek gods? > > Now *that* rocks. :-) Fedora: Evolution or Intelligent Design? From jwulf at redhat.com Tue Nov 15 07:37:43 2005 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:37:43 +1000 Subject: User Testimonials In-Reply-To: <7f617d270511121827v1ef6f4b1gc1d6203878e29e80@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f617d270511121827v1ef6f4b1gc1d6203878e29e80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43799047.3050008@redhat.com> OK, we've got it. I'll see if I can gather a few testimonials. --josh Alex Maier wrote: > Josh, John, > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/UserTestimonials > > This is currently the page to post user testimonials. If you wish to > change the format or do whatever, please feel free to--I have only > started this page to have a place for the testimonials to live until > someone takes ownership. > > Would be cool if you guys would own this project. > > Cheers, > a > > > On 11/10/05, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > >> On 11/10/05, Joshua Wulf wrote: >> >>> Testimonials it is. Let me use my powers for good, and try to coordinate >>> my madness a little better so that people don't have to change their >>> pants or take a double dose of their medication after I fire up the >>> browser (sorry about that guys...) >>> >> See the thread from Oct 24th "Fedora user testimonials" and get in >> touch with people who are already talking about it. John Mahowald >> seems to be the defacto "owner" of the idea right now. Though this >> hasn't actually been tasked as an action item as far as i know. >> >> -jef >> >> -- >> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list >> Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list >> >> > > > -- > New content on FUDCon page! > http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon > > FUDCon: > Fedora Users and Developers Conference > From lxmaier at gmail.com Tue Nov 15 14:21:01 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:21:01 -0500 Subject: User Testimonials In-Reply-To: <43799047.3050008@redhat.com> References: <7f617d270511121827v1ef6f4b1gc1d6203878e29e80@mail.gmail.com> <43799047.3050008@redhat.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270511150621o7061dc86j20f39a69b03690c8@mail.gmail.com> This is wonderful! Keep 'em coming! a On 11/15/05, Joshua Wulf wrote: > OK, we've got it. I'll see if I can gather a few testimonials. > > --josh > > Alex Maier wrote: > > Josh, John, > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/UserTestimonials > > > > This is currently the page to post user testimonials. If you wish to > > change the format or do whatever, please feel free to--I have only > > started this page to have a place for the testimonials to live until > > someone takes ownership. > > > > Would be cool if you guys would own this project. > > > > Cheers, > > a > > > > > > On 11/10/05, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > > >> On 11/10/05, Joshua Wulf wrote: > >> > >>> Testimonials it is. Let me use my powers for good, and try to coordinate > >>> my madness a little better so that people don't have to change their > >>> pants or take a double dose of their medication after I fire up the > >>> browser (sorry about that guys...) > >>> > >> See the thread from Oct 24th "Fedora user testimonials" and get in > >> touch with people who are already talking about it. John Mahowald > >> seems to be the defacto "owner" of the idea right now. Though this > >> hasn't actually been tasked as an action item as far as i know. > >> > >> -jef > >> > >> -- > >> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > >> Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > New content on FUDCon page! > > http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon > > > > FUDCon: > > Fedora Users and Developers Conference > > > > -- New content on FUDCon page! http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon FUDCon: Fedora Users and Developers Conference From kwade at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 07:14:05 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 23:14:05 -0800 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2005-11-06 at 20:41 -0800, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > Problem is the symbol does not really attract anyone. We have > seen the reactions on fedoraforum.org. I even show it to > my family and friend, overall they didn't like it. I've been catching up on the discussions from last week on this subject. I sympathize with people who are coming later into this discussion and still feel there is a wide open field for debate. However, your comment above is in the category of saying, "Most people feel that ..." Really, the only person you can talk about is yourself. Even if you read every single forum entry looking for feedback on the logo, you are still drawing from a self-selected survey. These are people who cared enough to write something. It could be that the people who liked the logo said, "Looks great," and went on with their day. We'll never really know. Where is the real traction? It is from the people who read announcements, came to this mailing list, and got involved. Nothing occurred in secret, a good effort was made to seek out feedback Back then, when it was time for All New Ideas. Now we are here. I'm interested in seeing actual layouts using the new logo. Anyone have some drafts they care to share? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marketing-list at fedoralinks.org Wed Nov 16 07:34:00 2005 From: marketing-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 01:34:00 -0600 Subject: Fedora Logo: Modifications and a new one In-Reply-To: <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1132126440.4214.7.camel@cbcclt02.cbcchome.cbccgroup.com> On Tue, 2005-11-15 at 23:14 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sun, 2005-11-06 at 20:41 -0800, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > > Problem is the symbol does not really attract anyone. We have > > seen the reactions on fedoraforum.org. I even show it to > > my family and friend, overall they didn't like it. > > I've been catching up on the discussions from last week on this subject. > > I sympathize with people who are coming later into this discussion and > still feel there is a wide open field for debate. > > However, your comment above is in the category of saying, "Most people > feel that ..." Really, the only person you can talk about is yourself. > > Even if you read every single forum entry looking for feedback on the > logo, you are still drawing from a self-selected survey. These are > people who cared enough to write something. It could be that the people > who liked the logo said, "Looks great," and went on with their day. > We'll never really know. > > Where is the real traction? It is from the people who read > announcements, came to this mailing list, and got involved. Nothing > occurred in secret, a good effort was made to seek out feedback Back > then, when it was time for All New Ideas. > > Now we are here. > > I'm interested in seeing actual layouts using the new logo. Anyone have > some drafts they care to share? > > - Karsten I have to admit I did not care for the the logo in the beginning. But as time has gone on I have either started to like it or just resigned my self to living with it. I am really not sure which. Karsten you asked for example layouts, a few of us from #fedora have started a project to bring content together under one roof if you will. We are just getting started but we have our main site up but have yet to pick a CMS that we want to live with. http://fedoraunity.org/ I pilfered the header background from the Wiki and modified the final logo to work on the dark background. Feel free to give us feed back on the site. Robert 'Bob' Jensen Complete Business Computer Consulting Fedora Community Member http://fedoralinks.org/ http://fedoraunity.org/ From barzilay at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 11:15:42 2005 From: barzilay at redhat.com (David Barzilay) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:15:42 +1000 Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> Hello Everyone, Every time I read a post from this list I ask myself "why do we keep banging our heads against the wall?" Truly, for how many months have we been discussing the logo??? I believe I am not the only person here feeling that this is a lovely place to discuss ideas, but a "not very lovely" place to get things done, am I? The only answer I could find is "because we don't have cut-clear project management guidelines", thus the decisions are not based on previously agreed frames. If you are with me keep reading, otherwise just press delete and add my email address to your filters. In some previous posts I suggested we have a more professional approach towards our activities. What I meant by that is defining a few variables before every project execution. In other words, carefully planning and backing our moves, and understanding its consequences. Say the project is NEW FC LOGO (just brainstorming, ok?): PROJECT VISION: establish a new FC visual identity in accordance with the Fedora Foundation goals and community aspirations PROJECT OVERVIEW: . discuss, vote, and agree upon FC new logo and visual identity PROJECT GOALS: . create a new FC logo . create a new FC visual identity (logo variants) . establish usage guidelines PROJECT SCOPE: . discuss main logo aspects . produce layouts . layouts voting by community . layout final definition by advisory board . create logo usage guidelines . promote new FC logo and visual identity worldwide PROJECT TIMELINE: . define EXACT DATES for each of the steps outlined in the scope (this way we have a base schedule for our activities, and avoid "going backwards" ACTION PLAN: . break down each of the scope tasks into smaller and detailed activities, and again: establish exact dates, considering possible delays COMMUNICATION TOOLS: . outline all communications tools and their purposes within the project scenario, so all members know how to interact in the project PROJECT RESOURCES: . outline all participants and their responsibilities for the project completion ## COMMITMENT IS KEY! . also include all other resources to be utilized PROJECT COSTS: . better talk to finance geek, not me...but I cannot imagine a successful project without a defined budget PROJECTS RISKS: . nominate all, even the ones with lesser probability to occur, and study their consequences . counter actions, contention plans, etc I didn't get these guidelines out of my mind. They are part of the PMI (Project Management Institute) courses, world widely known and recognized. So, are we changing our approach or continue wondering about the new FC logo for another semester? Thanks for listening! Best, -- David Barzilay Red Hat Asia-Pacific From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 11:38:23 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 17:08:23 +0530 Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> Message-ID: <437B1A2F.2090001@redhat.com> Hi >So, are we changing our approach or continue wondering about the new FC >logo for another semester? > > Nope. we arent. Whats the next items on the agenda? regards Rahul From nman64 at n-man.com Wed Nov 16 11:46:11 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 05:46:11 -0600 Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> Message-ID: <437B1C03.80706@n-man.com> David Barzilay wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > Every time I read a post from this list I ask myself "why do we keep > banging our heads against the wall?" > > Truly, for how many months have we been discussing the logo??? > > I believe I am not the only person here feeling that this is a lovely > place to discuss ideas, but a "not very lovely" place to get things > done, am I? > > The only answer I could find is "because we don't have cut-clear project > management guidelines", thus the decisions are not based on previously > agreed frames. > > If you are with me keep reading, otherwise just press delete and add my > email address to your filters. > > In some previous posts I suggested we have a more professional approach > towards our activities. What I meant by that is defining a few variables > before every project execution. In other words, carefully planning and > backing our moves, and understanding its consequences. > > Say the project is NEW FC LOGO (just brainstorming, ok?): > > PROJECT VISION: establish a new FC visual identity in accordance with > the Fedora Foundation goals and community aspirations > > PROJECT OVERVIEW: > . discuss, vote, and agree upon FC new logo and visual identity > > PROJECT GOALS: > . create a new FC logo > . create a new FC visual identity (logo variants) > . establish usage guidelines > > PROJECT SCOPE: > . discuss main logo aspects > . produce layouts > . layouts voting by community > . layout final definition by advisory board > . create logo usage guidelines > . promote new FC logo and visual identity worldwide > > PROJECT TIMELINE: > . define EXACT DATES for each of the steps outlined in the scope > (this way we have a base schedule for our activities, and avoid "going > backwards" > > ACTION PLAN: > . break down each of the scope tasks into smaller and detailed > activities, and again: establish exact dates, considering possible > delays > > COMMUNICATION TOOLS: > . outline all communications tools and their purposes within the project > scenario, so all members know how to interact in the project > > PROJECT RESOURCES: > . outline all participants and their responsibilities for the project > completion > ## COMMITMENT IS KEY! > > . also include all other resources to be utilized > > PROJECT COSTS: > . better talk to finance geek, not me...but I cannot imagine a > successful project without a defined budget > > PROJECTS RISKS: > . nominate all, even the ones with lesser probability to occur, and > study their consequences > . counter actions, contention plans, etc > > I didn't get these guidelines out of my mind. They are part of the PMI > (Project Management Institute) courses, world widely known and > recognized. > > So, are we changing our approach or continue wondering about the new FC > logo for another semester? > > Thanks for listening! > > Best, > -- > David Barzilay > Red Hat Asia-Pacific > > +1 We really need to come up with more formal processes than what we have in place. Improvement in this area has been slow. We've jumped in to several different projects without really knowing where we are going. There are obviously some things we can't predict, and we are doing a bit of experimentation, but we really need to work on formalizing and outlining our strategy. I know that waiting for the logo and other 'official' materials and information have put some projects on the back-burner, but it's time to start moving forward. No more excuses. The Ambassadors and Mentors programs are started, now we need to get them moving. We've got the logo now, so we need to start using it. We've got coordinated efforts coming together for the website and other things, we need to start producing more content. Everyone should pick something and exercise some initiative to make it happen. We've got a lot of talent going to waste, and a lot of projects waiting for that talent. I realize that many of us are already taking on some new and interesting projects, so we should try to build these into a framework to make sure nothing is forgotten about or dropped aside. Anyone else have any thoughts on how we can better organize our projects into a structured framework? -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stuart at elsn.org Wed Nov 16 12:16:54 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:16:54 +0000 Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: <437B1C03.80706@n-man.com> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437B1C03.80706@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1132143414.17634.247639327@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 05:46:11 -0600, "Patrick Barnes" said: > We really need to come up with more formal processes than what we have > in place. Improvement in this area has been slow. We've jumped in to > several different projects without really knowing where we are going. I think that processes in themselves don't get things done... Ultimately, things happen when a small group of people have a common goal, and do whatever tunrs out to be necessary to make it happen. The processes and infrastructure tend to follow after, e.g there is now a mailing list for Websites because enough people became committed to the idea of sorting out Fedora's Web presence. > There are obviously some things we can't predict, and we are doing a bit > of experimentation, but we really need to work on formalizing and > outlining our strategy. One way would be start with five or six concrete goals that have support, and then go from there, e.g. "Have a Fedora presence at every major Linux event in 2006", or "Hit 10,000 maintained packages in Extras". What needs to be done then becomes obvious. It almost doesn't matter if the goals aren't achieved - they provide focus. Example: GNOME's 10x10. Will GNOME actually have 10% share by 2010 ? Dunno, but it gives the project specific something to shoot for. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA From gdk at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 18:42:10 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:42:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: FEDORA AMBASSADORS. (Was: Slow actions? Time to move on!) In-Reply-To: <1132143414.17634.247639327@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437B1C03.80706@n-man.com> <1132143414.17634.247639327@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: Kudos to David Barzilay on his impatience about Fedora Marketing efforts. My comments inline below: * * * On Wed, 16 Nov 2005, Stuart Ellis wrote: > I think that processes in themselves don't get things done... > Ultimately, things happen when a small group of people have a common > goal, and do whatever turns out to be necessary to make it happen. The > processes and infrastructure tend to follow after, e.g there is now a > mailing list for Websites because enough people became committed to the > idea of sorting out Fedora's Web presence. This is exactly right. PMI ideals are great, but they are secondary. Leadership comes first. I haven't had much time to participate; I've been mostly an observer, with some items on my plate, but mostly my focus has been on other things. That's about to change. > One way would be start with five or six concrete goals that have > support, and then go from there, e.g. "Have a Fedora presence at every > major Linux event in 2006". I have come to believe that the marketing list, as useful a forum as it is for exchanging ideas, is not a project, has not been a project, and will not be a project. If someone wants to step up to lead Fedora Marketing as a project, I'm happy to be proven wrong. But for now, realistically: it's a mailing list. Fedora Ambassadors, on the other hand, has CLEAR AND QUANTIFIABLE GOALS: * HAVE A PRESENCE AT EVERY LINUX EVENT WORLDWIDE IN 2006. That means: + Know where the events are and document them on the wiki. + Match up at least one Ambassador to every one of those events. + Make sure that every one of those Ambassadors has what they need to represent Fedora: a good message, DVDs, schwag, signage... and ideally, in the future, ca$h to make things happen. * REPRESENT FEDORA LOCALLY. That means: + Getting Fedora installed on systems. + Going to your local LUG/school/church/whatever and representing Fedora. + Spreading the word about Fedora in ANY WAY YOU SEE FIT. + Keeping the other ambassadors up-to-date on your doings. To further those goals, we need: * A chair. For now, Alex Maier is it, because she has put together the past two FUDCons, essentially by herself. If there are disagreements, join the Ambassadors project, and let's discuss it. * A steering committee. This should be the group of people who (a) (a) can meet every week or two, (b) can take action items and *complete* them, and (c) can attend events and act as the exemplars of the Ambassador program generally. Therefore: let me announce the official formation of the Fedora Ambassadors Project Management Committee. If you want to be part of this committee, please let Alex know. * Work items on a standing agenda. What do we need to do *every week*? Extras and Docs both have this, and have been very successful in driving these agendas. * A weekly meeting. Where we hold one another accountable, *every week*. Extras and Docs both have this, and they've been effective. Time zone is an issue, particularly for a worldwide ambassador program. For now, we've got a meeting time, but I think that we may want to alternate meeting times to suit different geos. === So. If this approach makes sense to you, then join the Ambassadors program RIGHT NOW: 1. SUBSCRIBE! https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list 2. PUT YOUR NAME ON THE WIKI! http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList 3. BE AT OUR FIRST IRC MEETING! WHERE: irc.freenode.net, channel #fedora-mktg. WHEN: Thursday 17 November. 16:00 UTC, 11:00 Eastern US time. (Your timezone: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html) --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan From filbar at linpro.cz Wed Nov 16 18:46:59 2005 From: filbar at linpro.cz (Filip Bartmann) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:46:59 +0100 Subject: ***SPAM*** Ditribution of Fedora Message-ID: <20051116194659.63b7my5ydlg08kko@horde.miramo.cz> I want distribute your downloadable version of Fedora Core.How can I do it? Regards Filip Bartmann --------------------------------------------------------------------- Tento e-mail byl odeslany postovnim systemem https://horde.miramo.cz/ From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 18:59:25 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 00:29:25 +0530 Subject: ***SPAM*** Ditribution of Fedora In-Reply-To: <20051116194659.63b7my5ydlg08kko@horde.miramo.cz> References: <20051116194659.63b7my5ydlg08kko@horde.miramo.cz> Message-ID: <437B818D.70608@redhat.com> Filip Bartmann wrote: >I want distribute your downloadable version of Fedora Core.How can I do it? >Regards >Filip Bartmann > > Download them. Burn them. Put a CD label. Distribute Profit? See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution for more details and let us know if you need any further clarifications on this. regards Rahul From chitlesh at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 19:05:03 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:05:03 +0000 Subject: ***SPAM*** Ditribution of Fedora In-Reply-To: <20051116194659.63b7my5ydlg08kko@horde.miramo.cz> References: <20051116194659.63b7my5ydlg08kko@horde.miramo.cz> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511161105n114846a1ub5563abe9b3cdd5b@mail.gmail.com> On 11/16/05, Filip Bartmann wrote: > > I want distribute your downloadable version of Fedora Core.How can I do > it? > Regards > Filip Bartmann > first you must know to whom you want to distribute it. the first targeted public for ME would be the local lug members. It might be hard to convince them to try FC because they will answer that their experience with their actual distro is simply immence. Note that there are two types of lug members: 1. those who participate in the mailling lists and 2. those who read the posts silently. The second option is my favourite target. Because these people think that they are somehow "inferior" to option one. And hence if you "go" and "talk" to them (i.e. helping them to give FC a try) just like spoonfeeding them, you will make them pass the barrier. Thus they will post on local lug mailling list with FC4 as subject. while reading the posts, Other readers would THINK and SAY "I heard a lot about Fedora Core" o their friends. In the end it would be like point to point advertising. well the main thing afterwards is that we have to keep that image!! well this was more or less how I got my gf use linux :) Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From filbar at linpro.cz Wed Nov 16 19:34:25 2005 From: filbar at linpro.cz (Filip Bartmann) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 20:34:25 +0100 Subject: ***SPAM*** Ditribution of Fedora Message-ID: <20051116203425.w9tv6qli578c4ooc@horde.miramo.cz> Can I use logos of Fedora on boxes with Fedora CD/DVD in my e-shop? Regards Filip Bartmann --------------------------------------------------------------------- Tento e-mail byl odeslany postovnim systemem https://horde.miramo.cz/ From kwade at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 19:58:23 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:58:23 -0800 Subject: FEDORA AMBASSADORS. (Was: Slow actions? Time to move on!) In-Reply-To: References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437B1C03.80706@n-man.com> <1132143414.17634.247639327@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1132171104.3572.93.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 13:42 -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > Kudos to David Barzilay on his impatience about Fedora Marketing efforts. That said ... One cannot be overly impatient with volunteers. It is all well and good to put forward our best effort, to follow good project management practices, and the like. But don't forget ... Grassroots projects are successful without excessive project planning. They do this creatively and spontaneously. This is orthogonal to the way military, corporate, and other formal and professional organizations do it. The latter works because the human element is buried underneath the organization structure. For grassroots efforts, we need to embrace that difference. It is the nature of our success, and part of what makes us attractive to humans. What I suggest to David and others who are impatient, stop saying how impatient you are. Just do something. For example, it has been in your power all along to form a Brasilian based mailing list. You've never needed permission. It helps to discuss with others to agree upon our naming convention, but otherwise, what is holding you back? > 3. BE AT OUR FIRST IRC MEETING! > WHERE: irc.freenode.net, channel #fedora-mktg. > WHEN: Thursday 17 November. 16:00 UTC, 11:00 Eastern US time. > (Your timezone: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html) According to Alex via f-amb-l, this is actually 24 November, next week, which is a holiday in the US, during a different time (14:00 UTC). - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gdk at redhat.com Thu Nov 17 16:25:59 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 11:25:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Minutes from the Ambassadors meeting Message-ID: Posting these minutes to get everyone up to speed. In future, minutes will be posted to the Ambassador list only. Join. :) --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 11:24:36 -0500 (EST) From: Greg DeKoenigsberg To: fedora-ambassadors-list at redhat.com Subject: Minutes from the FIRST EVER MEETING! These "minutes" are boiled down from about 2 hours of conversation. :) 1. EVERY EVENT IN 2006! The stated goal of the Fedora Ambassadors program is to have a presence at every significant Linux / open source event in the world in 2006. Everyone present agreed to this goal. 2. PUT THE EVENTS IN THE WIKI! In order to accomplish our goal, we need a comprehensive list of events, and we need to know who's planning on attending them. This list will be kept up-to-date at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents It is EVERY AMBASSADOR'S RESPONSIBILITY to keep this list updated! 3. SPREAD THE WORD! Time to notify everybody about the Ambassadors program. Email, blog, whatever. Spread the word. 4. ARGUE MORE ABOUT FUNDRAISING! A crucial question. It costs money for people to go to events, and we can ask them to: * Do it out of the goodness of their hearts; * Get their company to pay for it; * Sell Fedora-themed schwag onsite to get reimbursed; * Use Fedora Foundation budget to get them there. It's a crucial issue that we'll need to continue to discuss. 5. NEXT MEETING TIME! Probably the original meeting time as suggested by Alex. Which, for Americans, is Thanksgiving... so the Americans can suck it up, or not be present, heh. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan From barzilay at redhat.com Fri Nov 18 08:14:59 2005 From: barzilay at redhat.com (David Barzilay) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:14:59 +1000 Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: <437B1A2F.2090001@redhat.com> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437B1A2F.2090001@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1132301699.8404.102.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 17:08 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > >So, are we changing our approach or continue wondering about the new FC > >logo for another semester? > > > > > Nope. we arent. Whats the next items on the agenda? Hello Everyone! I want to suggest a deadline for the new FC logo. How about 9 December? This is in 3 weeks time... Cheers, -- Dave Barzilay From sundaram at redhat.com Fri Nov 18 08:35:41 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:05:41 +0530 Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: <1132301699.8404.102.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437B1A2F.2090001@redhat.com> <1132301699.8404.102.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> Message-ID: <437D925D.4050902@redhat.com> Hi >Hello Everyone! > >I want to suggest a deadline for the new FC logo. How about 9 December? >This is in 3 weeks time... > I am not sure if you are following all the discussions in the list but we met the deadline about a week or so back. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/LogoIdeas regards Rahul From barzilay at redhat.com Fri Nov 18 08:43:31 2005 From: barzilay at redhat.com (David Barzilay) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:43:31 +1000 Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: <437D925D.4050902@redhat.com> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437B1A2F.2090001@redhat.com> <1132301699.8404.102.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437D925D.4050902@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1132303411.3428.2.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 14:05 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > I am not sure if you are following all the discussions in the list but we met the deadline about a week or so back. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/LogoIdeas Hi Rahul, Sorry if I misunderstood the wiki content "What about the source formats, font, logo license and guidelines? We are working on providing these after we discuss the requirements in detail carefully. We request your patience." Thanks for the update, -- Dave Barzilay From sundaram at redhat.com Fri Nov 18 08:48:54 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:18:54 +0530 Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: <1132303411.3428.2.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437B1A2F.2090001@redhat.com> <1132301699.8404.102.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437D925D.4050902@redhat.com> <1132303411.3428.2.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> Message-ID: <437D9576.5010904@redhat.com> Hi >Hi Rahul, > >Sorry if I misunderstood the wiki content "What about the source >formats, font, logo license and guidelines? > Yes. The guidelines have not been decided but the logo has been. Deciding on the proper guidelines probably requires some legal advice and we dont decide the deadline on that. Lets talk about agendas which arent Dependant on external factors such as these. regards Rahul From barzilay at redhat.com Fri Nov 18 09:06:12 2005 From: barzilay at redhat.com (David Barzilay) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 19:06:12 +1000 Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: <437D9576.5010904@redhat.com> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437B1A2F.2090001@redhat.com> <1132301699.8404.102.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437D925D.4050902@redhat.com> <1132303411.3428.2.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437D9576.5010904@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1132304772.3428.20.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 14:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Yes. The guidelines have not been decided but the logo has been. > Deciding on the proper guidelines probably requires some legal advice > and we dont decide the deadline on that. Lets talk about agendas which > arent Dependant on external factors such as these. Sure! I thought of creating some simple step-by-step instructions for someone willing to promote FC in their market from scratch. Some basic grassroots stuff... E.g. 1) Get together 5 people from your language and send an email to blah at blah requesting the creation of a translation list (without having the distro in their own language I cannot see the point for promoting it in the country) 2) Get familiar with translation process..... 3) Promote the yourlanguage translation project 4) Mingle with other OSS-enthusiasts in your country (union brings power) and invite them to participate... 5) Create a localized website.... 6) Ambassadors... Friday night here and I gotta go. Hope these are of interest. Have an awesome weekend everyone! Best, -- Dave Barzilay From cnegus at mwt.net Fri Nov 18 13:43:00 2005 From: cnegus at mwt.net (Chris Negus) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 07:43:00 -0600 Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: <437D925D.4050902@redhat.com> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437B1A2F.2090001@redhat.com> <1132301699.8404.102.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437D925D.4050902@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1132321380.3187.447.camel@einstein> On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 14:05 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > >Hello Everyone! > > > >I want to suggest a deadline for the new FC logo. How about 9 December? > >This is in 3 weeks time... > > > I am not sure if you are following all the discussions in the list but we met the deadline about a week or so back. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/LogoIdeas Sorry if I missed it, but I have a question about the logo. Is this now the official logo? If so, could someone like myself, who has written a book that describes Fedora (and actually delivers it with the book) use that logo on the book cover? For example, I know I can use the Open Use Debian logo because it says so here: http://www.debian.org/logos/ Any guidance would be appreciated. -- Chris Negus From sundaram at redhat.com Fri Nov 18 13:45:48 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 19:15:48 +0530 Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: <1132321380.3187.447.camel@einstein> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437B1A2F.2090001@redhat.com> <1132301699.8404.102.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437D925D.4050902@redhat.com> <1132321380.3187.447.camel@einstein> Message-ID: <437DDB0C.4070409@redhat.com> Chris Negus wrote: >On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 14:05 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > >>Hi >> >> >> >>>Hello Everyone! >>> >>>I want to suggest a deadline for the new FC logo. How about 9 December? >>>This is in 3 weeks time... >>> >>> >>> >>I am not sure if you are following all the discussions in the list but we met the deadline about a week or so back. >> >>http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/LogoIdeas >> >> > >Sorry if I missed it, but I have a question about the logo. Is this now >the official logo? If so, could someone like myself, who has written a >book that describes Fedora (and actually delivers it with the book) use >that logo on the book cover? > >For example, I know I can use the Open Use Debian logo because it says >so here: > >http://www.debian.org/logos/ > >Any guidance would be appreciated. > > See the FAQ in the link above. You would have to wait for the guidelines to be published. regards Rahul From cnegus at mwt.net Fri Nov 18 14:21:20 2005 From: cnegus at mwt.net (Chris Negus) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:21:20 -0600 Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: <437DDB0C.4070409@redhat.com> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437B1A2F.2090001@redhat.com> <1132301699.8404.102.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437D925D.4050902@redhat.com> <1132321380.3187.447.camel@einstein> <437DDB0C.4070409@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1132323680.3187.457.camel@einstein> On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 19:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Chris Negus wrote: > >Sorry if I missed it, but I have a question about the logo. Is this now > >the official logo? If so, could someone like myself, who has written a > >book that describes Fedora (and actually delivers it with the book) use > >that logo on the book cover? > See the FAQ in the link above. You would have to wait for the > guidelines to be published. Yes, I see the line you are referring to now. No problem, I can wait. I don't need to know for another week. ;-) -- Chris From mattdm at mattdm.org Sun Nov 20 02:21:10 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 21:21:10 -0500 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 Message-ID: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> We are preliminarily "go" for FUDCon Boston 2006, on April 7th, after the big LinuxWorld Conference & Expo. Apparently, that conference has moved to Boston Convention & Exhibition Center, which isn't quite as convenient to BU as the Hynes Convention Center (last year's LW Conf&Expo location). However, it's still a relatively easy trip on public transportation. Well, mostly -- it involves a very short ride on the Silver Line (which has a stop right at the BCEC), a very short ride on the Red Line, and a medium-length ride on the Green B Line. (As opposed to last year's short trip on the Green B Line, or even walking.) Since we'll have more advance planning this time around, we should be able to accommodate more people -- probably around 180. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From gdk at redhat.com Sun Nov 20 11:44:40 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 06:44:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: <1132301699.8404.102.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437B1A2F.2090001@redhat.com> <1132301699.8404.102.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Nov 2005, David Barzilay wrote: > Hello Everyone! > > I want to suggest a deadline for the new FC logo. How about 9 December? > This is in 3 weeks time... I can appreciate your sense of urgency, David, but what deadline are you looking for, exactly? We have a logo. Are you looking specifically for an announcement of the new logo? Usage guidelines? We'll be putting up the new logo on f.r.c and fp.o within the next several days, I think. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan From lxmaier at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 00:48:31 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:48:31 -0500 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> Hey folks, If you feel like owning the FUDCon, please visit http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/Organization for HowTo and suggested ETAs. Cheers, a On 11/19/05, Matthew Miller wrote: > We are preliminarily "go" for FUDCon Boston 2006, on April 7th, after > the big LinuxWorld Conference & Expo. > > Apparently, that conference has moved to Boston Convention & Exhibition > Center, which isn't quite as convenient to BU as the Hynes Convention Center > (last year's LW Conf&Expo location). However, it's still a relatively easy > trip on public transportation. Well, mostly -- it involves a very short ride > on the Silver Line (which has a stop right at the BCEC), a very short ride > on the Red Line, and a medium-length ride on the Green B Line. (As opposed > to last year's short trip on the Green B Line, or even walking.) > > Since we'll have more advance planning this time around, we should be able > to accommodate more people -- probably around 180. > > -- > Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org > Boston University Linux ------> > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- New content on Fedora Project page! http://fedoraproject.org Fedora Ambassadors From lxmaier at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 00:56:34 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:56:34 -0500 Subject: ***SPAM*** Ditribution of Fedora In-Reply-To: <20051116203425.w9tv6qli578c4ooc@horde.miramo.cz> References: <20051116203425.w9tv6qli578c4ooc@horde.miramo.cz> Message-ID: <7f617d270511201656p519ff56n211879ce0166f830@mail.gmail.com> You may use the Fedora Project logo, but you cannot use any Red Hat logos. Please refer to http://fedora.redhat.com/about/trademarks/ for details. Thank you, a On 11/16/05, Filip Bartmann wrote: > Can I use logos of Fedora on boxes with Fedora CD/DVD in my e-shop? > Regards > Filip Bartmann > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Tento e-mail byl odeslany postovnim systemem https://horde.miramo.cz/ > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- New content on Fedora Project page! http://fedoraproject.org Fedora Ambassadors From lxmaier at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 01:05:59 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 20:05:59 -0500 Subject: tshirts In-Reply-To: <200511141553.jAEFrQ0p013999@mx3.redhat.com> References: <200511141553.jAEFrQ0p013999@mx3.redhat.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270511201705t59129377p13bf9028a67daa1e@mail.gmail.com> Bill, I would be your contact for merchandise production. At the moment, we do not have an official merchandise store set up--not on cafepress.com, not anywehere else. I would be delighted to find out more about the conditions you could offer Fedora. Thanks, a On 11/14/05, Dunrite Printing wrote: > > > > I was at fedoraforum.org reading about the t-shirts that are available from > expresscafe, and someone referred me to this list. > > > > I am interested in printing t-shirts for fedora. I have been in and out of > the project since it started, and I recently just got back into it with core > 4. I am 34 years old, an IT administrator by day, and I own a Screen > Printing business on the side. I have been in the printing industry for > almost ten years, and owned the screen printing business for about 5 years > going on 6. Anyways, this is not a hopeless plug for business, I don't need > additional business, I stay busy enough, but I do believe in the quality of > the shirts my shop can produce, and I want a high quality shirt available > for not only myself, but everyone. You can check out my webpage if you want > to know about my business. Keep in mind I do not update the website or even > sell off it anymore, I normally stick with resellers, schools, fire houses > etc. A couple of my bigger clients right now are Coke and Little Caesars. I > am the screen printer, I have a couple of people that work for me, but there > would be no middleman, and I would be printing the shirts myself, so the > quality would be guaranteed. We could also have other than white colored > t-shirts, since this is a real screen printing process, not an inkjet or > anything like that. > > > > How could I find out more about who I should talk to about printing > t-shirts? > > > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > -- New content on Fedora Project page! http://fedoraproject.org Fedora Ambassadors From barzilay at redhat.com Mon Nov 21 03:18:46 2005 From: barzilay at redhat.com (David Barzilay) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:18:46 +1000 Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437B1A2F.2090001@redhat.com> <1132301699.8404.102.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1132543126.3334.4.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> Hi Greg and All, Would be great to know how to use the new logo in the Brazilian Fedora users website ;) Many thanks, Dave On Sun, 2005-11-20 at 06:44 -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > On Fri, 18 Nov 2005, David Barzilay wrote: > > > Hello Everyone! > > > > I want to suggest a deadline for the new FC logo. How about 9 December? > > This is in 3 weeks time... > > I can appreciate your sense of urgency, David, but what deadline are you > looking for, exactly? We have a logo. Are you looking specifically for > an announcement of the new logo? Usage guidelines? > > We'll be putting up the new logo on f.r.c and fp.o within the next several > days, I think. > > --g From kwade at redhat.com Mon Nov 21 07:36:13 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:36:13 -0800 Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: <1132304772.3428.20.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437B1A2F.2090001@redhat.com> <1132301699.8404.102.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437D925D.4050902@redhat.com> <1132303411.3428.2.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437D9576.5010904@redhat.com> <1132304772.3428.20.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1132558573.935.33.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 19:06 +1000, David Barzilay wrote: > On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 14:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Yes. The guidelines have not been decided but the logo has been. > > Deciding on the proper guidelines probably requires some legal advice > > and we dont decide the deadline on that. Lets talk about agendas which > > arent Dependant on external factors such as these. > > Sure! I thought of creating some simple step-by-step instructions for > someone willing to promote FC in their market from scratch. Some basic > grassroots stuff... [snip ideas] Maybe you want to populate a Wiki page with these ideas? Perhaps, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/GettingStarted ? (Just a name suggestion.) Hopefully Alex and others are watching the content that is created in the Ambassadors namespace. They do this by putting Ambassadors.* in their list of subscribed pages through this page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UserPreferences Then it is easy to watch the changes you make and make their own changes to the same page. Similarly, per-language pages could be created under Ambassadors/, or by language code, e.g., wiki/ptBR/ ... or ? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From barzilay at redhat.com Mon Nov 21 07:56:23 2005 From: barzilay at redhat.com (David Barzilay) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:56:23 +1000 Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: <1132558573.935.33.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437B1A2F.2090001@redhat.com> <1132301699.8404.102.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437D925D.4050902@redhat.com> <1132303411.3428.2.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437D9576.5010904@redhat.com> <1132304772.3428.20.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <1132558573.935.33.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1132559784.3334.42.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> Hi Karsten, Thanks for your feedback and suggestions! I'll create the document locally in the next two weeks, then think of its best fit. Is anyone else interested in co-writing or editing this document? Stories and experiences for promoting FC in other countries are welcome! Best, -- Dave Barzilay On Sun, 2005-11-20 at 23:36 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 19:06 +1000, David Barzilay wrote: > > On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 14:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > Yes. The guidelines have not been decided but the logo has been. > > > Deciding on the proper guidelines probably requires some legal advice > > > and we dont decide the deadline on that. Lets talk about agendas which > > > arent Dependant on external factors such as these. > > > > Sure! I thought of creating some simple step-by-step instructions for > > someone willing to promote FC in their market from scratch. Some basic > > grassroots stuff... > > [snip ideas] > > Maybe you want to populate a Wiki page with these ideas? > > Perhaps, > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/GettingStarted ? > > (Just a name suggestion.) > > Hopefully Alex and others are watching the content that is created in > the Ambassadors namespace. They do this by putting Ambassadors.* in > their list of subscribed pages through this page: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UserPreferences > > Then it is easy to watch the changes you make and make their own changes > to the same page. > > Similarly, per-language pages could be created under Ambassadors/, or by > language code, e.g., wiki/ptBR/ ... or ? > > - Karsten From mattdm at mattdm.org Mon Nov 21 12:34:22 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 07:34:22 -0500 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051121123422.GA9527@jadzia.bu.edu> On Sun, Nov 20, 2005 at 07:48:31PM -0500, Alex Maier wrote: > Hey folks, Which folks? -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From gdk at redhat.com Mon Nov 21 13:22:25 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:22:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Slow actions? Time to move on! In-Reply-To: <1132543126.3334.4.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> References: <20051107044104.1CF4D7B4E4@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> <1132125245.3572.23.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132139742.24485.43.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <437B1A2F.2090001@redhat.com> <1132301699.8404.102.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> <1132543126.3334.4.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> Message-ID: I've got a discussion with our counsel tomorrow afternoon. Logo usage policy is item number one on the discussion list. After that meeting, I'll have a better answer for you -- promise. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Mon, 21 Nov 2005, David Barzilay wrote: > Hi Greg and All, > > Would be great to know how to use the new logo in the Brazilian Fedora > users website ;) > > Many thanks, > Dave > > On Sun, 2005-11-20 at 06:44 -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > On Fri, 18 Nov 2005, David Barzilay wrote: > > > > > Hello Everyone! > > > > > > I want to suggest a deadline for the new FC logo. How about 9 December? > > > This is in 3 weeks time... > > > > I can appreciate your sense of urgency, David, but what deadline are you > > looking for, exactly? We have a logo. Are you looking specifically for > > an announcement of the new logo? Usage guidelines? > > > > We'll be putting up the new logo on f.r.c and fp.o within the next several > > days, I think. > > > > --g > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 21 18:38:32 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:08:32 +0530 Subject: Distrowatch: Tidbits on Fedora logo and FC5 test 1 release Message-ID: <43821428.801@redhat.com> Hi http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20051121 regards Rahul From jeremy.hogan at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 18:46:03 2005 From: jeremy.hogan at gmail.com (Jeremy Hogan) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:46:03 -0500 Subject: tshirts In-Reply-To: <7f617d270511201705t59129377p13bf9028a67daa1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <200511141553.jAEFrQ0p013999@mx3.redhat.com> <7f617d270511201705t59129377p13bf9028a67daa1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <556f970a0511211046q14b2688cv9f224cf74fbe947f@mail.gmail.com> He must mean this: http://www.cafepress.com/buy/fedora/-/pv_design_details/pg_1/id_6252266/opt_/fpt_/c_/hlv_t Which he indicates is from fedoraforum.org , but I can't find it mentioned there anywhere. --jeremy On 11/20/05, Alex Maier wrote: > > Bill, > > I would be your contact for merchandise production. At the moment, we > do not have an official merchandise store set up--not on > cafepress.com , not anywehere else. > > I would be delighted to find out more about the conditions you could > offer Fedora. > > Thanks, > a > > On 11/14/05, Dunrite Printing wrote: > > > > > > > > I was at fedoraforum.org reading about the > t-shirts that are available from > > expresscafe, and someone referred me to this list. > > > > > > > > I am interested in printing t-shirts for fedora. I have been in and out > of > > the project since it started, and I recently just got back into it with > core > > 4. I am 34 years old, an IT administrator by day, and I own a Screen > > Printing business on the side. I have been in the printing industry for > > almost ten years, and owned the screen printing business for about 5 > years > > going on 6. Anyways, this is not a hopeless plug for business, I don't > need > > additional business, I stay busy enough, but I do believe in the quality > of > > the shirts my shop can produce, and I want a high quality shirt > available > > for not only myself, but everyone. You can check out my webpage if you > want > > to know about my business. Keep in mind I do not update the website or > even > > sell off it anymore, I normally stick with resellers, schools, fire > houses > > etc. A couple of my bigger clients right now are Coke and Little > Caesars. I > > am the screen printer, I have a couple of people that work for me, but > there > > would be no middleman, and I would be printing the shirts myself, so the > > quality would be guaranteed. We could also have other than white colored > > t-shirts, since this is a real screen printing process, not an inkjet or > > anything like that. > > > > > > > > How could I find out more about who I should talk to about printing > > t-shirts? > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > > -- > New content on Fedora Project page! > http://fedoraproject.org > > Fedora Ambassadors > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeremy.hogan at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 19:57:21 2005 From: jeremy.hogan at gmail.com (Jeremy Hogan) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:57:21 -0500 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <20051121123422.GA9527@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051121123422.GA9527@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <556f970a0511211157l4a0e3b0eu2751425a3844cd03@mail.gmail.com> In prior posts, I poo pooed the notion that we need to make videos/documentaries of these events. Something about ompholoskepsis. But, I've since been keeping a close eye on www.current.tvthe site and CurrentTV the cable/satellite station. I think now would be a good time to submit them a viewer created "pod". Right now their audience is very techy/geeky. They've run documentary pods on ComicCon, as well as an RPG group, and a third on a lan-gaming group. Not to mention the whole stations reeeeks of Google. If we did something that captured the flavor of these events, and the movement they represent, my bet is that it would get "greenlighted" from the website to the TV channels. It'd be cool if we worked in one of the RH videos, or even better, one created for FUDCon use. They repeat the crap out of content they have, so this might be a ringer. A nice soldier's eye view of the war, and a commercial for Fedora all at once. --jeremy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lxmaier at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 20:40:06 2005 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:40:06 -0500 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <20051121123422.GA9527@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051121123422.GA9527@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <7f617d270511211240s58abaa34kd7f5d3e3bfb39105@mail.gmail.com> On 11/21/05, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Sun, Nov 20, 2005 at 07:48:31PM -0500, Alex Maier wrote: > > Hey folks, > > Which folks? The ones you referred to as "we" in your post. I assumed there was a group of people for which you were speaking. On 11/19/05, Matthew Miller wrote: > We are preliminarily "go" for FUDCon Boston 2006, on April 7th, after > the big LinuxWorld Conference & Expo. > Since we'll have more advance planning this time around, we should be able > to accommodate more people -- probably around 180. If however, there is nobody organizing the FUDCon at the moment, then it is about time someone felt responsible for it :) Greg and I of course will be involved, but a larger team means we can get more stuff done. Consider this a call for action. a From gdk at redhat.com Mon Nov 21 20:39:45 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:39:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <556f970a0511211157l4a0e3b0eu2751425a3844cd03@mail.gmail.com> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051121123422.GA9527@jadzia.bu.edu> <556f970a0511211157l4a0e3b0eu2751425a3844cd03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: We actually did pretty good video at the first FUDCon. Good tip -- maybe worth a repeat performance. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Mon, 21 Nov 2005, Jeremy Hogan wrote: > In prior posts, I poo pooed the notion that we need to make > videos/documentaries of these events. Something about ompholoskepsis. > > But, I've since been keeping a close eye on > www.current.tvthe site and CurrentTV the > cable/satellite station. I think now would be a > good time to submit them a viewer created "pod". Right now their audience is > very techy/geeky. They've run documentary pods on ComicCon, as well as an > RPG group, and a third on a lan-gaming group. Not to mention the whole > stations reeeeks of Google. If we did something that captured the flavor of > these events, and the movement they represent, my bet is that it would get > "greenlighted" from the website to the TV channels. It'd be cool if we > worked in one of the RH videos, or even better, one created for FUDCon use. > > They repeat the crap out of content they have, so this might be a ringer. A > nice soldier's eye view of the war, and a commercial for Fedora all at once. > > --jeremy > From jspaleta at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 20:48:16 2005 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:48:16 -0500 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051121123422.GA9527@jadzia.bu.edu> <556f970a0511211157l4a0e3b0eu2751425a3844cd03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910511211248m57a84399u2cea61529e418231@mail.gmail.com> On 11/21/05, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > We actually did pretty good video at the first FUDCon. Good tip -- maybe > worth a repeat performance. Is there going to be a pydance dance-off this year? -jef"will dance for food or a t-shirt"spaleta From mattdm at mattdm.org Mon Nov 21 20:50:03 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:50:03 -0500 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <7f617d270511211240s58abaa34kd7f5d3e3bfb39105@mail.gmail.com> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051121123422.GA9527@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511211240s58abaa34kd7f5d3e3bfb39105@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051121205003.GA30427@jadzia.bu.edu> On Mon, Nov 21, 2005 at 03:40:06PM -0500, Alex Maier wrote: > > > Hey folks, > > Which folks? > The ones you referred to as "we" in your post. I assumed there was a > group of people for which you were speaking. Ok. :) Last year, those of us here at Boston University organized the space and some snacks, and people from Red Hat and Fedora volunteers organized the content and schedule of the conference itself. (Specifically, an advisory board of Michael Tiemann, Greg DeKoenigsberg, Havoc Pennington, Paul Nasrat, Warren Togami, Colin Charles, and Jack Aboutboul, plus some involvement from Dave Lawrence and Elliot Lee.) I expected a similar arrangement this time around, since it seemed to work very well even with the short notice. > If however, there is nobody organizing the FUDCon at the moment, then > it is about time someone felt responsible for it :) I've already talked a little bit with Jack, and with people at BU -- hence my post. :) > Greg and I of course will be involved, but a larger team means we can > get more stuff done. > Consider this a call for action. Yep! -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From mattdm at mattdm.org Mon Nov 21 20:50:45 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:50:45 -0500 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <604aa7910511211248m57a84399u2cea61529e418231@mail.gmail.com> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051121123422.GA9527@jadzia.bu.edu> <556f970a0511211157l4a0e3b0eu2751425a3844cd03@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910511211248m57a84399u2cea61529e418231@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051121205045.GB30427@jadzia.bu.edu> On Mon, Nov 21, 2005 at 03:48:16PM -0500, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > We actually did pretty good video at the first FUDCon. Good tip -- maybe > > worth a repeat performance. > Is there going to be a pydance dance-off this year? We could probably arrange for that. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From mattdm at mattdm.org Mon Nov 21 20:54:17 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:54:17 -0500 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051121123422.GA9527@jadzia.bu.edu> <556f970a0511211157l4a0e3b0eu2751425a3844cd03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051121205417.GC30427@jadzia.bu.edu> On Mon, Nov 21, 2005 at 03:39:45PM -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > We actually did pretty good video at the first FUDCon. Good tip -- maybe > worth a repeat performance. We're planning to contract with BU's (internal) Media Support Services this time around -- they're the people with keys to the projector room and soundboard, and cameras, and mike hookups, and, of course, an overwhelming sense of their technical superiority. :) Things came out pretty well last time, but this should make it a bit less ad-hoc. And, y'know, maybe that technical superiority will help against that horrible squealing feedback issue we had during the keynote. :) -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From jkeating at j2solutions.net Mon Nov 21 21:22:32 2005 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:22:32 -0800 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <7f617d270511211240s58abaa34kd7f5d3e3bfb39105@mail.gmail.com> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051121123422.GA9527@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511211240s58abaa34kd7f5d3e3bfb39105@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1132608152.23142.4.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> On Mon, 2005-11-21 at 15:40 -0500, Alex Maier wrote: > If however, there is nobody organizing the FUDCon at the moment, then > it is about time someone felt responsible for it :) > > Greg and I of course will be involved, but a larger team means we can > get more stuff done. > > Consider this a call for action. I plan on being heavily involved. I should be moved up there by then anyhow. I figured I would be helping in the boot at LWCE as well, although now that I work for RH I will have to clear this with my new management. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating From gdk at redhat.com Tue Nov 22 15:13:19 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:13:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora logo update Message-ID: The Fedora logo is now in the hands of counsel. It cannot be said to be truly "official" until it clears this process successfully. One of the side effects of developing the logo under the watchful eye of the public is that everyone sees it before it's cleared the entire process, and since it has approval, everyone wants to use it immediately. Therefore, there are people using the logo now -- some even with our tacit approval. This is a mistake. Hold off. I don't want to go all fascist and say "everybody take down the logo NOW!" But I will request that if you're using the logo currently, and if you can reasonably replace it until we've got full logo clearance, please do so. The legal process looks something like this: * Design search. This is where we make sure that no logo in any field looks too much like this one. In process, should be done by end of next week. * Trademark application. Obviously, this is where we make sure that the mark is Fedora's. Should be on file within a couple of days after design search is complete. I'll continue to keep everyone updated on the logo's progress through the process. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan From gerold at lugd.org Tue Nov 22 15:39:13 2005 From: gerold at lugd.org (Gerold Kassube) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:39:13 +0100 (CET) Subject: Fedora logo update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1707.217.193.143.106.1132673953.squirrel@www.gbc.net> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > The Fedora logo is now in the hands of counsel. It cannot be said to be > truly "official" until it clears this process successfully. great job Greg! +1 Gerold From byte at aeon.com.my Tue Nov 22 15:45:05 2005 From: byte at aeon.com.my (Colin Charles) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 23:45:05 +0800 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <20051121205003.GA30427@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051121123422.GA9527@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511211240s58abaa34kd7f5d3e3bfb39105@mail.gmail.com> <20051121205003.GA30427@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <43833D01.20307@aeon.com.my> Matthew Miller wrote: >>>>Hey folks, >>> >>>Which folks? >> >>The ones you referred to as "we" in your post. I assumed there was a >>group of people for which you were speaking. > > > Ok. :) Last year, those of us here at Boston University organized the space > and some snacks, and people from Red Hat and Fedora volunteers organized the > content and schedule of the conference itself. (Specifically, an advisory > board of Michael Tiemann, Greg DeKoenigsberg, Havoc Pennington, Paul Nasrat, > Warren Togami, Colin Charles, and Jack Aboutboul, plus some involvement from > Dave Lawrence and Elliot Lee.) I expected a similar arrangement this time > around, since it seemed to work very well even with the short notice. Hello people. Did someone say FUDCon Boston 2006? *grin* From mattdm at mattdm.org Tue Nov 22 16:07:24 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:07:24 -0500 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <43833D01.20307@aeon.com.my> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051121123422.GA9527@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511211240s58abaa34kd7f5d3e3bfb39105@mail.gmail.com> <20051121205003.GA30427@jadzia.bu.edu> <43833D01.20307@aeon.com.my> Message-ID: <20051122160724.GA5920@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 11:45:05PM +0800, Colin Charles wrote: > >Dave Lawrence and Elliot Lee.) I expected a similar arrangement this time > >around, since it seemed to work very well even with the short notice. > Hello people. Did someone say FUDCon Boston 2006? > *grin* Why, yes, I think I did hear that. Got any schemes? -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From jeremy.hogan at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 16:20:17 2005 From: jeremy.hogan at gmail.com (Jeremy Hogan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:20:17 -0500 Subject: Fedora logo update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <556f970a0511220820g4ba38954yd125eba54b7975f@mail.gmail.com> On 11/22/05, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > * Design search. This is where we make sure that no logo in any > field looks too much like this one. In process, should be done by > end of next week. I'd expect them to look at the new Quark logo as the most likely deal killer. Though it's more likely that the Scottish Arts Council will take umbrage. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/14/new_quark_logo/ --jeremy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdk at redhat.com Tue Nov 22 17:03:35 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:03:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora logo update In-Reply-To: <556f970a0511220820g4ba38954yd125eba54b7975f@mail.gmail.com> References: <556f970a0511220820g4ba38954yd125eba54b7975f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ...which is precisely why we want to cross the ts and dot the is. :) --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Tue, 22 Nov 2005, Jeremy Hogan wrote: > On 11/22/05, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > > * Design search. This is where we make sure that no logo in any > > field looks too much like this one. In process, should be done by > > end of next week. > > > I'd expect them to look at the new Quark logo as the most likely deal > killer. Though it's more likely that the Scottish Arts Council will take > umbrage. > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/14/new_quark_logo/ > > --jeremy > From paulds at bu.edu Tue Nov 22 17:13:15 2005 From: paulds at bu.edu (Paul Stauffer) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:13:15 -0500 Subject: Fedora logo update In-Reply-To: References: <556f970a0511220820g4ba38954yd125eba54b7975f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051122171315.GE18484@prozac.horde.com> On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 12:03:35PM -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > ...which is precisely why we want to cross the ts and dot the is. :) A potentially confusing task, in the case of "Fedora". :) I guess we have to cross our Fs... -- Paul Stauffer Manager of Research Computing Computer Science Department Boston University From filbar at linpro.cz Tue Nov 22 17:29:18 2005 From: filbar at linpro.cz (Filip Bartmann) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:29:18 +0100 Subject: ***SPAM*** Fedora in e-shop Message-ID: <20051122182918.1129lp8m128kg8s4@horde.miramo.cz> I have else one question, about Fedora in e-shop. If I download Fedora and in unmodified form I burn it on CD's/DVD, it's right(I'm sorry for my question, but I'm not so good in English to full understand your guidelines.) Where I can find logos of Fedora, which I can use with Fedora CD's/DVD? With best regards Filip Bartmann --------------------------------------------------------------------- Tento e-mail byl odeslany postovnim systemem https://horde.miramo.cz/ From sundaram at redhat.com Tue Nov 22 17:32:45 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 23:02:45 +0530 Subject: ***SPAM*** Fedora in e-shop In-Reply-To: <20051122182918.1129lp8m128kg8s4@horde.miramo.cz> References: <20051122182918.1129lp8m128kg8s4@horde.miramo.cz> Message-ID: <4383563D.705@redhat.com> Filip Bartmann wrote: >I have else one question, about Fedora in e-shop. If I download Fedora >and in unmodified form I burn it on CD's/DVD, it's right(I'm sorry for my >question, but I'm not so good in English to full understand your guidelines.) > > Yes. The guidelines are simple. You are allowed and encouraged to distribute and Fedora. If you are modifying it just dont call it Fedora. >Where I can find logos of Fedora, which I can use with Fedora CD's/DVD? > > We are still working on the logo guidelines. Expect a announcement in this list shortly. regards Rahul From mattdm at mattdm.org Tue Nov 22 20:49:36 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:49:36 -0500 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051122204936.GA17476@jadzia.bu.edu> On Sun, Nov 20, 2005 at 07:48:31PM -0500, Alex Maier wrote: > Hey folks, > If you feel like owning the FUDCon, please visit > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/Organization > for HowTo and suggested ETAs. So, anyway, on this chart, we're pretty solid with #1 and #2 -- leaving the next important step of: who is going speak at this thing? -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From jkeating at j2solutions.net Wed Nov 23 00:56:29 2005 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:56:29 -0800 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <20051122204936.GA17476@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051122204936.GA17476@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1132707389.4037.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 15:49 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > So, anyway, on this chart, we're pretty solid with #1 and #2 -- leaving the > next important step of: who is going speak at this thing? I'm hoping that by then I'll have something neat and fun to talk about re working @ Red Hat and the impending or just released FC5 and looking forward to FC6. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mattdm at mattdm.org Wed Nov 23 03:53:57 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:53:57 -0500 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <1132707389.4037.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051122204936.GA17476@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132707389.4037.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20051123035357.GA4310@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 04:56:29PM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote: > > So, anyway, on this chart, we're pretty solid with #1 and #2 -- leaving the > > next important step of: who is going speak at this thing? > I'm hoping that by then I'll have something neat and fun to talk about > re working @ Red Hat and the impending or just released FC5 and looking > forward to FC6. Or in a different direction, maybe something on Fedora Legacy? (Which, by the way, I will talk to you about more after Thanksgiving.) -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From jkeating at j2solutions.net Wed Nov 23 05:07:26 2005 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:07:26 -0800 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <20051123035357.GA4310@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051122204936.GA17476@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132707389.4037.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051123035357.GA4310@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1132722446.4037.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 22:53 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > > Or in a different direction, maybe something on Fedora Legacy? > > (Which, by the way, I will talk to you about more after Thanksgiving.) Hrm, good point. We are making some moves w/ Legacy, just not sure if it is that entertaining of a topic (; -- Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mattdm at mattdm.org Wed Nov 23 13:53:27 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:53:27 -0500 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <1132722446.4037.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051122204936.GA17476@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132707389.4037.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051123035357.GA4310@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132722446.4037.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20051123135327.GA22122@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 09:07:26PM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote: > Hrm, good point. We are making some moves w/ Legacy, just not sure if > it is that entertaining of a topic (; Yeah, I think that's the problem. :) -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Nov 23 13:57:58 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:27:58 +0530 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <1132722446.4037.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051122204936.GA17476@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132707389.4037.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051123035357.GA4310@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132722446.4037.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43847566.7020403@redhat.com> Jesse Keating wrote: >On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 22:53 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > > >>Or in a different direction, maybe something on Fedora Legacy? >> >>(Which, by the way, I will talk to you about more after Thanksgiving.) >> >> > >Hrm, good point. We are making some moves w/ Legacy, just not sure if >it is that entertaining of a topic (; > > What sort of moves? I am not sure about the entertainment value but it would be informative. It might generate more interest and potential contributors regards Rahul From jkeating at j2solutions.net Wed Nov 23 19:49:15 2005 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:49:15 -0800 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <43847566.7020403@redhat.com> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051122204936.GA17476@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132707389.4037.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051123035357.GA4310@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132722446.4037.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43847566.7020403@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1132775355.23142.41.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> On Wed, 2005-11-23 at 19:27 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > What sort of moves? I am not sure about the entertainment value but it > would be informative. It might generate more interest and potential > contributors Tighter integration with Fedora * shipped repo file for Legacy in off state * Legacy info in release notes * Legacy takeover announcements sent to Fedora lists w/ EOL announcement Migration to a new build system * Sources put into CVS (possibly RH's own cvs system) * Use of plague/mock from Fedora Extras Enhancing contributor process * Clear progress of User->QA->Builder->Publisher promotions * Make use of Extra's Mentor/Sponsor ideals Interaction with Fedora Foundation * work out some way that FF can take donations in the name of Legacy for those that wish to donate something other than time * Forming something of a steering committee for Legacy to leverage community input for decision making I think thats whats on my plate thus far... -- Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Nov 23 20:08:10 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 01:38:10 +0530 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <1132775355.23142.41.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051122204936.GA17476@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132707389.4037.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051123035357.GA4310@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132722446.4037.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43847566.7020403@redhat.com> <1132775355.23142.41.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> Message-ID: <4384CC2A.7020600@redhat.com> Jesse Keating wrote: >On Wed, 2005-11-23 at 19:27 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > >>What sort of moves? I am not sure about the entertainment value but it >>would be informative. It might generate more interest and potential >>contributors >> >> > >Tighter integration with Fedora > * shipped repo file for Legacy in off state > > I think we discussed this before but why does it needs to be off by default? When packages are available they will be higher versions that core and updates repository. If the community trusts Fedora Core and Extras, they can very well trust Fedora Legacy. The release notes can mention its now available for default. If someone doesnt really want for some odd reason that let them disable it themselves. > * Legacy info in release notes > > Legacy just needs a beat writer. Preferably someone who is part of the build team. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats (snipping out the rest of the excellent ideas) regards Rahul From jkeating at j2solutions.net Wed Nov 23 21:19:33 2005 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:19:33 -0800 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <4384CC2A.7020600@redhat.com> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051122204936.GA17476@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132707389.4037.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051123035357.GA4310@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132722446.4037.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43847566.7020403@redhat.com> <1132775355.23142.41.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> <4384CC2A.7020600@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1132780773.23142.56.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 01:38 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > I think we discussed this before but why does it needs to be off by > default? When packages are available they will be higher versions that > core and updates repository. If the community trusts Fedora Core and > Extras, they can very well trust Fedora Legacy. The release notes can > mention its now available for default. If someone doesnt really want for > some odd reason that let them disable it themselves. Well this is a decision I have been struggling with, and I would hope a steering committee would help with this. Because we aren't Core, and we aren't Extras, there is some risk using our packages, some cases where an update may go out that causes problems that aren't caught by normal QA. However there is the same risk w/ Extras and Core too. One argument is that it would be one less repo that is checked for each yum action (or each yum action after the cache timeout). It would also add load to the master download server. We have a large number of mirrors, however I'm not entirely pleased with the way that mirrorlists work in yum. Far too often a user in West USA may get handed a mirror in Russia or France or something. I guess the long/short of it is that the decision to enable/disable by default is up in the air. With Pup there is a pretty easy interface to enable/disable repositories so changing state shouldn't be that difficult. As it stands right now, I do believe I"m waiting for RH Legal to give go ahead to even ship a repo file that points to Legacy content. If they say no, everything above is rather moot. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Nov 23 21:36:52 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 03:06:52 +0530 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <1132780773.23142.56.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051122204936.GA17476@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132707389.4037.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051123035357.GA4310@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132722446.4037.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43847566.7020403@redhat.com> <1132775355.23142.41.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> <4384CC2A.7020600@redhat.com> <1132780773.23142.56.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> Message-ID: <4384E0F4.70502@redhat.com> Hi >Well this is a decision I have been struggling with, and I would hope a >steering committee would help with this. Because we aren't Core, and we >aren't Extras, there is some risk using our packages, some cases where >an update may go out that causes problems that aren't caught by normal >QA. However there is the same risk w/ Extras and Core too. One >argument is that it would be one less repo that is checked for each yum >action (or each yum action after the cache timeout). It would also add >load to the master download server. We have a large number of mirrors, >however I'm not entirely pleased with the way that mirrorlists work in >yum. Far too often a user in West USA may get handed a mirror in Russia >or France or something. > > > I would like the rationales behind the decisions to be made transparent for the community either way. If its about performance of yum, I see a mention about "fastest mirror routine" support to yumex on https://bugzilla.redhat.com/173708. Yum has a fastestmirror plugin as part yum-utils in Fedora Extras. Not sure how good that would be include by default. Seth? Also yum recently seems to have gotten better cache support. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/173708 Better mirror management on the server side seems to be on the plate too as part of FAIP http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora >I guess the long/short of it is that the decision to enable/disable by >default is up in the air. With Pup there is a pretty easy interface to >enable/disable repositories so changing state shouldn't be that >difficult. > > > Fedora Legacy users are probably server side. Pup doesnt usually help there. >As it stands right now, I do believe I"m waiting for RH Legal to give go >ahead to even ship a repo file that points to Legacy content. If they >say no, everything above is rather moot. > > > Ok. regards Rahul From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 21:37:56 2005 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 16:37:56 -0500 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <1132780773.23142.56.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051122204936.GA17476@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132707389.4037.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051123035357.GA4310@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132722446.4037.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43847566.7020403@redhat.com> <1132775355.23142.41.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> <4384CC2A.7020600@redhat.com> <1132780773.23142.56.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910511231337h18f409c8h6468a80c57b74c9@mail.gmail.com> On 11/23/05, Jesse Keating wrote: > One argument is that it would be one less repo that is checked for each yum > action (or each yum action after the cache timeout). It would also add > load to the master download server. compromise that does not address the issue of "trust" but addresses the issues of unnecessary server load and client activity. legacy off by default through the normal release cycle and the last official package in the normal lifespan is a new fedora-release package that switches the legacy repo on and the updates-released and updates-testing off? -jef From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Nov 23 21:44:40 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 03:14:40 +0530 Subject: Impressions: Fedora Core 5 Test 1 Message-ID: <4384E2C8.9070906@redhat.com> Hi http://www.distroreviews.com/index.php?view=296 Comments? regards Rahul From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 21:54:39 2005 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 16:54:39 -0500 Subject: Impressions: Fedora Core 5 Test 1 In-Reply-To: <4384E2C8.9070906@redhat.com> References: <4384E2C8.9070906@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910511231354h765ce6c0pc492e541d1110f45@mail.gmail.com> On 11/23/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > http://www.distroreviews.com/index.php?view=296 > > Comments? I'm disgusted by what passes as a review these days. I think I'm going to go hire myself 100 chimps give them thin clients and accounts on distroreviews and just let them bang away. The result could be no worse. -jef"j-a-d-e-d, j-a-d-e-d, j-a-d-e-d and jaded was his name-o"spaleta From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Nov 23 22:55:25 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 04:25:25 +0530 Subject: Fedora Bookmarks. Fedora Magazine? Message-ID: <4384F35D.3050608@redhat.com> Hi Just a note that Firefox in Fedora Core 5 test 1 and development releases now includes Fedora related bookmarks instead of Red Hat stuff as pointed out in this list earlier. The following is provided as bookmarks currently. Fedora Project Portal - http://fedoraproject.org/ Latest Release Notes - http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes Fedora Community (bookmark group) - Fedora Weekly News (http://fedoranews.org) and Fedora Forum.org (http://fedoraforum.org). Might drop the .org from the link name? Red Hat Magazine - http://redhat.com/magazine. Probably deemed appropriate since it has a Fedora section every month and general includes very good information almost always applicable to Fedora too. How about having a Fedora Magazine or Journal? . If there is enough interest in this, I can do some of the work regularly. Is there any other bookmarks to add? regards Rahul From tchung at fedoranews.org Wed Nov 23 23:10:34 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:10:34 -0800 Subject: Fedora Bookmarks. Fedora Magazine? In-Reply-To: <4384F35D.3050608@redhat.com> References: <4384F35D.3050608@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20051123230354.M59769@fedoranews.org> On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 04:25:25 0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote > Hi > > Just a note that Firefox in Fedora Core 5 test 1 and development > releases now includes Fedora related bookmarks instead of Red Hat stuff > as pointed out in this list earlier. The following is provided as > bookmarks currently. > > Fedora Project Portal - http://fedoraproject.org/ > Latest Release Notes - http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes > Fedora Community (bookmark group) - Fedora Weekly News > (http://fedoranews.org) and Fedora Forum.org (http://fedoraforum.org). > Might drop the .org from the link name? > Red Hat Magazine - http://redhat.com/magazine. Probably deemed > appropriate since it has a Fedora section every month and general > includes very good information almost always applicable to Fedora too. > How about having a Fedora Magazine or Journal? . If there is enough > interest in this, I can do some of the work regularly. > > Is there any other bookmarks to add? > > regards > Rahul Instead of adding individual websites for bookmarks, how about we point to a page such as http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate ? Or we could create a new page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraBookmarks Fedora Magazine sounds good. Is this going to be a monthly publication? -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From mattdm at mattdm.org Wed Nov 23 23:22:03 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 18:22:03 -0500 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <1132780773.23142.56.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051122204936.GA17476@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132707389.4037.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051123035357.GA4310@jadzia.bu.edu> <1132722446.4037.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43847566.7020403@redhat.com> <1132775355.23142.41.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> <4384CC2A.7020600@redhat.com> <1132780773.23142.56.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> Message-ID: <20051123232203.GA10422@jadzia.bu.edu> On Wed, Nov 23, 2005 at 01:19:33PM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote: > steering committee would help with this. Because we aren't Core, and we > aren't Extras, there is some risk using our packages, some cases where > an update may go out that causes problems that aren't caught by normal > QA. However there is the same risk w/ Extras and Core too. One FWIW, I've had worse experiences with bad updates from Core than I ever have from Legacy. :) > action (or each yum action after the cache timeout). It would also add > load to the master download server. We have a large number of mirrors, > however I'm not entirely pleased with the way that mirrorlists work in > yum. Far too often a user in West USA may get handed a mirror in Russia > or France or something. There's some work on yum plugins which deal with this; I think by the timeframe we're talking about, that won't be an issue. But hey, this is off-topic. :) -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Nov 23 23:27:10 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 04:57:10 +0530 Subject: Fedora Bookmarks. Fedora Magazine? In-Reply-To: <20051123230354.M59769@fedoranews.org> References: <4384F35D.3050608@redhat.com> <20051123230354.M59769@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <4384FACE.3050408@redhat.com> Hi >Instead of adding individual websites for bookmarks, how about we point to a page such >as http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate ? > > > The idea is to highlight whats important instead of just provide a laundry list of websites. However the above link could be the last link >Fedora Magazine sounds good. Is this going to be a monthly publication? > > We could do that. I am just asking if we want to do that and checking interest. Doing it like Red Hat Magazine with quality articles every month is a huge amount of work. regards Rahul From Frederic.Hornain at GB.BE Wed Nov 23 23:27:16 2005 From: Frederic.Hornain at GB.BE (Hornain Frederic) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 00:27:16 +0100 Subject: Could I say a Word ? Message-ID: Dear all Marketing Members, Firstly, I would say that Fedora Community is doing a real good Job ! Yes, it is what I think ! In addition, I know that "Rome was not Built in one Day" and I respect religiously what have been done. Howerver, I think we should do an effort on our communication to people who are not coming from or born in computers world : ) For instance, just do the exercice, try to be a newbies knowing nothing about Fedora and wanting to help or to try the distribution, just for one minute. I beleive you should quickly ask you theses questions : What is Fedora ? {Yes, I know if am going to the Fedora site I thinks that I already know what Fedora is.:} - How can install it ? How to use it ? Who is doing what ? Who should I contact in order to help developpers and others ? How should I help developpers and others ? etc... Ok, I know that almost all the basic information already exists but for the moment it is not so clear than that. The newbies will have to search a long time before to discover what he was looking for, won't they ? Maybe we should create a dedicated site for developpers - Fedora guys I mean - and an other for the rest of the world which is I thinks represent the bigger part ; ) where the last one can retreive in a easier way what they are looking for. It is just an idea. Or pheraps another solution. BTW, the thing here is just to open the discussion and to advance the thing. If you have any remarks feel free to contact me. BR Fred -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mattdm at mattdm.org Wed Nov 23 23:29:51 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 18:29:51 -0500 Subject: Impressions: Fedora Core 5 Test 1 In-Reply-To: <4384E2C8.9070906@redhat.com> References: <4384E2C8.9070906@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20051123232951.GB10422@jadzia.bu.edu> On Thu, Nov 24, 2005 at 03:14:40AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > http://www.distroreviews.com/index.php?view=296 > Comments? Sounds like we ought to change up the initial boot screen. Plus I think it's funny that the installer is described as having "obvious additional polish", when actually what it has is additional huge rough edges. :) -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Nov 23 23:35:15 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 05:05:15 +0530 Subject: Could I say a Word ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4384FCB3.3050903@redhat.com> Hi > Howerver, I think we should do an effort on our communication to > people who are not coming from or born in computers world : ) > > For instance, just do the exercice, try to be a newbies knowing > nothing about Fedora and wanting to help or to try the distribution, > just for one minute. > > I beleive you should quickly ask you theses questions : > > What is Fedora ? {Yes, I know if am going to the Fedora site I thinks > that I already know what Fedora is.:} - > How can install it ? > How to use it ? > Who is doing what ? > Who should I contact in order to help developpers and others ? > How should I help developpers and others ? > etc... > > Ok, I know that almost all the basic information already exists but > for the moment it is not so clear than that. > The newbies will have to search a long time before to discover what he > was looking for, won't they ? > Yes. The presentation you have created does a excellent job conveying some of this information and we should be creating a standard presentation based on that. (I will post my detailed comments on it later ) but a ongoing effort in reaching out to completely new users requires communicating more of what Fedora is capable of without putting a lot of jargon in it. Spreadfirefox.com is a nice model to aim for. regards Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Thu Nov 24 00:22:45 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:22:45 -0500 Subject: Fedora Bookmarks. Fedora Magazine? In-Reply-To: <4384FACE.3050408@redhat.com> References: <4384F35D.3050608@redhat.com> <20051123230354.M59769@fedoranews.org> <4384FACE.3050408@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1132791765.2990.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 04:57 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >Fedora Magazine sounds good. Is this going to be a monthly publication? > > > We could do that. I am just asking if we want to do that and checking > interest. Doing it like Red Hat Magazine with quality articles every > month is a huge amount of work. Just ask the folks who have to take over while RHM editor Tammy Fox is on leave. ;-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mattdm at mattdm.org Thu Nov 24 03:02:04 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:02:04 -0500 Subject: fudcon wiki Message-ID: <20051124030204.GA17240@jadzia.bu.edu> So, to prevent confusion and craziness in the future (basically the same reason everyone stopped referring to years as things like "in the 8th year of the reign of king so-and-so" and switched to a universal system), I intend to make the next FUDCon wiki entry be not FUDCon/FUDCon4 but rather FUDCon/FUDConBoston2006. Does anyone have a problem with that? Like, I mean, a problem with a rational basis? :) -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From tchung at fedoranews.org Thu Nov 24 03:18:58 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:18:58 -0800 Subject: fudcon wiki In-Reply-To: <20051124030204.GA17240@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20051124030204.GA17240@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <20051124031659.M34587@fedoranews.org> On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:02:04 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote > So, to prevent confusion and craziness in the future (basically the same > reason everyone stopped referring to years as things like "in the 8th year > of the reign of king so-and-so" and switched to a universal system), I > intend to make the next FUDCon wiki entry be not FUDCon/FUDCon4 but rather > FUDCon/FUDConBoston2006. > > Does anyone have a problem with that? Like, I mean, a problem with a > rational basis? :) > > -- > Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org > Boston University Linux ------> Go for it. Let's also create a redirect in FUDCon/FUDCon4 #redirect FUDCon/FUDConBoston2006 -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From barzilay at redhat.com Thu Nov 24 03:21:56 2005 From: barzilay at redhat.com (David Barzilay) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:21:56 +1000 Subject: Could I say a Word ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1132802517.7573.30.camel@maxwell.brisbane.redhat.com> On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 00:27 +0100, Hornain Frederic wrote: > Howerver, I think we should do an effort on our communication to > people who are not coming from or born in computers world : ) +1 What I usually do is targeting communications to dummies, no matter what the product is. Then here, the starting point is putting myself (or at least try) in their shoes, and imagine they got no clue about nor ever heard of Fedora. Start from the basics... From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Nov 24 06:47:38 2005 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 08:47:38 +0200 Subject: Impressions: Fedora Core 5 Test 1 In-Reply-To: <4384E2C8.9070906@redhat.com> References: <4384E2C8.9070906@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4385620A.8070204@nicubunu.ro> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > http://www.distroreviews.com/index.php?view=296 > > Comments? I think with reviewers like this is easy to score a few points: once the logo is cleared (this should be next week, right?) we should produce updated new versions for the grub screen, gdm screen and default background - this would get us rid of the "overall there was nothing new to see on the desktop" -- nicu my hats collection: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/hats Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From sundaram at redhat.com Sat Nov 26 00:06:22 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 05:36:22 +0530 Subject: Impressions: Fedora Core 5 Test 1 In-Reply-To: <4385620A.8070204@nicubunu.ro> References: <4384E2C8.9070906@redhat.com> <4385620A.8070204@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <4387A6FE.4070302@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Hi >> >> http://www.distroreviews.com/index.php?view=296 >> >> Comments? > > > I think with reviewers like this is easy to score a few points: once > the logo is cleared (this should be next week, right?) we should > produce updated new versions for the grub screen, gdm screen and > default background - this would get us rid of the "overall there was > nothing new to see on the desktop" > I think refreshing the visual appeal of Fedora now and then if not for every release is important anyway. regards Rahul From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Sat Nov 26 08:55:49 2005 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:55:49 +0200 Subject: Impressions: Fedora Core 5 Test 1 In-Reply-To: <4387A6FE.4070302@redhat.com> References: <4384E2C8.9070906@redhat.com> <4385620A.8070204@nicubunu.ro> <4387A6FE.4070302@redhat.com> Message-ID: <43882315.6000208@nicubunu.ro> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Nicu Buculei wrote: > >> I think with reviewers like this is easy to score a few points: once >> the logo is cleared (this should be next week, right?) we should >> produce updated new versions for the grub screen, gdm screen and >> default background - this would get us rid of the "overall there was >> nothing new to see on the desktop" >> > I think refreshing the visual appeal of Fedora now and then if not for > every release is important anyway. OK, if we agree about it, what can be done? Where is the right place to talk about this, here, on the desktop list, elsewhere? Who can lead the initiative? From sundaram at redhat.com Sat Nov 26 14:07:54 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:37:54 +0530 Subject: Impressions: Fedora Core 5 Test 1 In-Reply-To: <43882315.6000208@nicubunu.ro> References: <4384E2C8.9070906@redhat.com> <4385620A.8070204@nicubunu.ro> <4387A6FE.4070302@redhat.com> <43882315.6000208@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <43886C3A.5050300@redhat.com> Hi >>> >> I think refreshing the visual appeal of Fedora now and then if not >> for every release is important anyway. > > > OK, if we agree about it, what can be done? Where is the right place > to talk about this, here, on the desktop list, elsewhere? Who can lead > the initiative? Its getting done for this release. I have already talked to the powers that be. For future releases, fedora-desktop list would be appropriate. regards Rahul From gajownik at fedora.pl Sat Nov 26 15:06:25 2005 From: gajownik at fedora.pl (Dawid Gajownik) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:06:25 +0100 Subject: Security features Message-ID: <438879F1.3050101@fedora.pl> Hi! I've been reading recently lwn.net and I've found this article ? http://lwn.net/Articles/160380/ I knew about this patch restricting acces to /dev/mem but I did not know that it prevents rootkits! IMHO this should be mentioned in the Release Notes: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/fc5/test1-latest-en/#sn-security Actually, there should be more hype about Fedora's security features?. For instance, FC5 uses Stack Smashing Protector. I think that it's worth mentioning it in the Announcement of Fedora Core 5?. Information about updated KDE, Gnome, kernel, etc. will not encourage users to change the distribution. I know that it's also important, but only cool new features may change their decisions :) Without it we will see more Fedora's reviews similar to this: "The wallpaper is the same. Nothing to see here, move along." ;) ? Yes, I know about SELinux, but why not to tell people about other technologies? ? http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2005-November/msg00064.html Regards, Dawid -- ^_* From sundaram at redhat.com Sat Nov 26 15:28:15 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:58:15 +0530 Subject: Security features In-Reply-To: <438879F1.3050101@fedora.pl> References: <438879F1.3050101@fedora.pl> Message-ID: <43887F0F.9050107@redhat.com> Dawid Gajownik wrote: > Hi! > > I've been reading recently lwn.net and I've found this article ? > http://lwn.net/Articles/160380/ I knew about this patch restricting > acces to /dev/mem but I did not know that it prevents rootkits! IMHO > this should be mentioned in the Release Notes: > http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/fc5/test1-latest-en/#sn-security > > > Actually, there should be more hype about Fedora's security > features?. For instance, FC5 uses Stack Smashing Protector. I think > that it's worth mentioning it in the Announcement of Fedora Core 5?. Fstack-protector is already mentioned in http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/fc5/test1-latest-en/#sn-security. I will include more comprehensive information about the other security features to the wiki and link from the release notes - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Security. Could highlight such overviews better in further announcements. You are already in the edit group for the Fedora wiki. If you want to include such information yourself see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing Thank you for bringing this up to the list. regards Rahul From gajownik at fedora.pl Sat Nov 26 16:06:37 2005 From: gajownik at fedora.pl (Dawid Gajownik) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:06:37 +0100 Subject: Security features In-Reply-To: <43887F0F.9050107@redhat.com> References: <438879F1.3050101@fedora.pl> <43887F0F.9050107@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4388880D.3090203@fedora.pl> Dnia 11/26/2005 04:28 PM, U?ytkownik Rahul Sundaram napisa?: > Fstack-protector is already mentioned in > http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/fc5/test1-latest-en/#sn-security. Yes, I know, but IMHO it's important to mention it in annoncements. Just take a look a recent articles about Fedora on /. or osnews.com: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/25/1454209&tid=110 http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=12761 Authors just summarize official announcements. They won't even bother to read Release Notes :( > I will include more comprehensive information about the other > security features to the wiki and link from the release notes - > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Security. Thanks! > You are already in the edit group for the Fedora wiki. If you want to > include such information yourself see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing Well, I'm not a native English speaker and right now I don't feel so comfortable in writing official texts. My grammar sucks and I don't want people to laugh at me ;) Writing on mailing lists or in bugzilla is a bit something different... -- ^_* From gdk at redhat.com Sat Nov 26 16:19:50 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 11:19:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: Impressions: Fedora Core 5 Test 1 In-Reply-To: <43882315.6000208@nicubunu.ro> References: <4384E2C8.9070906@redhat.com> <4385620A.8070204@nicubunu.ro> <4387A6FE.4070302@redhat.com> <43882315.6000208@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: If you're interested in Desktop eye candy, you should be working with Diana Fong and the Fedora Artwork project. dfong at redhat dot com. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Nicu Buculei wrote: > > > >> I think with reviewers like this is easy to score a few points: once > >> the logo is cleared (this should be next week, right?) we should > >> produce updated new versions for the grub screen, gdm screen and > >> default background - this would get us rid of the "overall there was > >> nothing new to see on the desktop" > >> > > I think refreshing the visual appeal of Fedora now and then if not for > > every release is important anyway. > > OK, if we agree about it, what can be done? Where is the right place to > talk about this, here, on the desktop list, elsewhere? Who can lead the > initiative? > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From gdk at redhat.com Sat Nov 26 16:28:02 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 11:28:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Security features In-Reply-To: <438879F1.3050101@fedora.pl> References: <438879F1.3050101@fedora.pl> Message-ID: Yeah, the security features are prominent in the TalkingPoints: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/TalkingPoints --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Dawid Gajownik wrote: > Hi! > > I've been reading recently lwn.net and I've found this article ? > http://lwn.net/Articles/160380/ I knew about this patch restricting > acces to /dev/mem but I did not know that it prevents rootkits! IMHO > this should be mentioned in the Release Notes: > http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/fc5/test1-latest-en/#sn-security > > Actually, there should be more hype about Fedora's security features?. > For instance, FC5 uses Stack Smashing Protector. I think that it's worth > mentioning it in the Announcement of Fedora Core 5?. Information about > updated KDE, Gnome, kernel, etc. will not encourage users to change the > distribution. I know that it's also important, but only cool new > features may change their decisions :) Without it we will see more > Fedora's reviews similar to this: "The wallpaper is the same. Nothing to > see here, move along." ;) > > ? Yes, I know about SELinux, but why not to tell people about other > technologies? > ? > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2005-November/msg00064.html > > Regards, > Dawid > -- > > ^_* > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From sundaram at redhat.com Sat Nov 26 20:24:22 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 01:54:22 +0530 Subject: Security features In-Reply-To: <4388880D.3090203@fedora.pl> References: <438879F1.3050101@fedora.pl> <43887F0F.9050107@redhat.com> <4388880D.3090203@fedora.pl> Message-ID: <4388C476.4030008@redhat.com> Hi > > Yes, I know, but IMHO it's important to mention it in annoncements. > Just take a look a recent articles about Fedora on /. or osnews.com: > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/25/1454209&tid=110 > http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=12761 > Authors just summarize official announcements. They won't even bother to > read Release Notes :( The test release notes tend to highlight what we require feedback on to get a better final release out of the door. Fstack protector is mostly transparent to end users like how all security features should be but going forward we will take care to mention such features in the announcements. It would be good to get such reminders *before* the release. > > Well, I'm not a native English speaker and right now I don't feel so > comfortable in writing official texts. My grammar sucks and I don't > want people to laugh at me ;) Writing on mailing lists or in bugzilla > is a bit something different... I have heard that too many times and that excuse is basically unacceptable to me. I am not a native speaker either. I contribute and let peer review and other editors polish it if necessary. If you can contribute the raw content, editors can take care of the rest including grammar. The only requirement you need is interest and I see you already have it ;-) regards Rahul From sundaram at redhat.com Sat Nov 26 22:18:08 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 03:48:08 +0530 Subject: Fedora Core 5 test 1 : Press Message-ID: <4388DF20.2020402@redhat.com> Hi http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/PressArchive Not sure if thats the right place but I have added some announcements and a review to the list. If you find any important press especially non-English content, feel free to add them. If you can do a translation to English or even a short summary, that would be great. regards Rahul From sundaram at redhat.com Sun Nov 27 00:53:59 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 06:23:59 +0530 Subject: Security features In-Reply-To: <438879F1.3050101@fedora.pl> References: <438879F1.3050101@fedora.pl> Message-ID: <438903A7.4080708@redhat.com> Hi > > ? Yes, I know about SELinux, but why not to tell people about other > technologies? Added information from the talking points and other areas. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Security/Features. Would require more comprehensive coverage. Help, feedback and suggestions welcome. regards Rahul From thulshof at gmail.com Sun Nov 27 12:39:18 2005 From: thulshof at gmail.com (Thijs H) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 13:39:18 +0100 Subject: Fedora Core 5 test 1 : Press In-Reply-To: <4388DF20.2020402@redhat.com> References: <4388DF20.2020402@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9590b2a80511270439s2c14b261j661802d5925f0d9f@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I've added a link to an announcement on Tweakers.net, a very popular website in The Netherlands. On http://babelfish.altavista.com you can translate the page, but I can also write a summary. Where should I put the summary? - Thijs On 11/26/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/PressArchive > > Not sure if thats the right place but I have added some announcements > and a review to the list. If you find any important press especially > non-English content, feel free to add them. If you can do a > translation to English or even a short summary, that would be great. > > regards > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Sun Nov 27 20:11:23 2005 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:11:23 -0600 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. Message-ID: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I posted this on http//www.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=86543 and at Rahul Sundaram's suggestion/request I'm posting this here also. The verbatim copy of the posted test follows: - ---- Begin Original Text ---- A friend of mine for whom I built a system, recently approached me and asked me why didn't I started selling Linux based PCs... My primary field of work is not system building or integration, but what moved the most was what he said regarding the predominant position or a certain company from north-western US, and I'm like (sarcastic) "Yeah, let's sell Wallmart's $300 USD PCs! Jeeze!" That started a discution which turned into a plausible plan to kickstart (or at least try to, anyway) a company, however I have some questions. Anyway I'm affraid I may end up sending a couple e-mails to the lawyers in Red Hat to better grasp this. Well the plan is simply that: Build and put together Linux PCs and then sell them. That's the basic idea. Now I've got some questions: *) How far could we (if we walk down this path, anyway) modify the default Fedora installation to better fit customers? (installing some Extras packages and maybe Flash/RealPlayer/mPlayer/Xine; 32-bit apps for backwards compatibility on 64-bit Linux boxes) *) As far as Look'n'Feel go, would there be problems if the default desktop settings are changed a bit (theme, icon set, color schemes)? *) Even though Fedora does not ship with them, could we be able to deliver the built systems with all necesary drivers, provided a warning in the manual that stated the drivers are not part of the distro DVD the customers will get, with instructions on how to get them and install them? *) The cost of the systems would be based only on the price for the hardware, being the software totally free, and possibly a small fee for support (for instance 30 bucks for 6 months of extended support and installation help). We've not completely outlined the systems we'd be offering, but they'd all be x86_64 based (and we yet have to decide whether to install 64-bit versions or 32-bit of the OS). I know we could be using other distributions which would allow us to have the systems installed that way, but we'd like to stay with Fedora (since we both use Fedora and like it above other distros). We are aware of the legal issues surrounding applications, especially multimedia apps, I'm more worried about hardware dirvers and the like, though. We are also pondering (if the multimedia apps is such a pitfall) to only provide in the documentation instructions on how to install such programs, but probably we would like to know also if there would be any problems by having other repositories (like Livna) configured in the systems. I appreciate your comments and I'm very excited about this project. Maybe we could manage to at least place Linux a bit higher down here in Mex. Though we are thinking on offering pretty much higher-end systems and probably Workstations. - ---- End of Original Text ---- I know that this may bring some legal issues. But first I feel compelled to carify some of what I wrote up there. First and foremost, the only modifications planned to the "default" installation would be regarding theme and icons, however not modifying the Red Hat/Fedora logo for the menu entries (it'd be a custom icon-theme that we plan on releasing on art-gnome.org, gnome-look.org and if we manage to make one, an RPM for Extras). No other logos/trademarks would be removed from the installation. In the event there would be a problem by providing any of the other packages (Flash/RealPlayer/etc), how about providing only selected programs from Extras? Or would the users be required to get the Extras programs they want from Extras, leaving only a default install of Core? As I said above, I'm especially worried about device drivers. At the moment I'm going through all the material there's at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal, just wanted to post this earlier (while I still read) so you guys cand advise. Thanks. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDihLrXM+XOp70dwoRAoTwAJ9flRwJRq+NmVNEjurrRgQRh47oCACcDLwP tdUgnT5UDgnUV7bGVQDELfE= =2oUy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mattdm at mattdm.org Sun Nov 27 20:16:36 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 15:16:36 -0500 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> On Sun, Nov 27, 2005 at 02:11:23PM -0600, Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > *) How far could we (if we walk down this path, anyway) modify the > default Fedora installation to better fit customers? (installing some > Extras packages and maybe Flash/RealPlayer/mPlayer/Xine; 32-bit apps > for backwards compatibility on 64-bit Linux boxes) If you modify it, you can't call it Fedora. But you can modify it all you want. However, as not-a-lawyer, just adding things probably doesn't fall under that. The details hare here: You're definitely going to want to consult a lawyer. Preferably one familiar with open source. Watch out for the licenses and other legal issues with those "maybe" apps. And x86_64 already does include 32-bit backwards-compatibility stuff. > *) As far as Look'n'Feel go, would there be problems if the default > desktop settings are changed a bit (theme, icon set, color schemes)? Same. > *) Even though Fedora does not ship with them, could we be able to > deliver the built systems with all necesary drivers, provided a > warning in the manual that stated the drivers are not part of the > distro DVD the customers will get, with instructions on how to get > them and install them? The trademark guidelines would apply again. But also, it would depend on the licensing terms of the drivers, too. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Sun Nov 27 20:46:19 2005 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:46:19 -0600 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Matthew Miller wrote: > On Sun, Nov 27, 2005 at 02:11:23PM -0600, Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > > >> *) How far could we (if we walk down this path, anyway) modify >> the default Fedora installation to better fit customers? >> (installing some Extras packages and maybe >> Flash/RealPlayer/mPlayer/Xine; 32-bit apps for backwards >> compatibility on 64-bit Linux boxes) > > > If you modify it, you can't call it Fedora. But you can modify it > all you want. However, as not-a-lawyer, just adding things probably > doesn't fall under that. The details hare here: > > > You're definitely going to want to consult a lawyer. Preferably one > familiar with open source. > > Watch out for the licenses and other legal issues with those > "maybe" apps. > > And x86_64 already does include 32-bit backwards-compatibility > stuff. > Yes it does, just not for plugins stuff like Flash, Java and even RealPlayer. I had to install either Firefox/Netscape/Mozilla 32-bit to be able to install Flash. Plus when I installed FC4 x86_64 I had to expressely state I wanted the 32-bit compatibility libs and programs. > >> *) As far as Look'n'Feel go, would there be problems if the >> default desktop settings are changed a bit (theme, icon set, >> color schemes)? > > > Same. > >> *) Even though Fedora does not ship with them, could we be able >> to deliver the built systems with all necesary drivers, provided >> a warning in the manual that stated the drivers are not part of >> the distro DVD the customers will get, with instructions on how >> to get them and install them? > > > The trademark guidelines would apply again. But also, it would > depend on the licensing terms of the drivers, too. > > Guess, Fedora is best suited for individual use only... As going through all the restrictions, and balancing what most users expect to find in their comptuers, it'd deffinitely be hard to market such computers. Despite the computer's raw power. As I said earlier, what worries me the most is the hardware part, as I can leave the system to a default (kickstart) installation, letting users configure their users, change root's password, etc., but (and I would too) users expect the hardware they buy a new system with to flawlessly work with the OS the system shipped. This is what leaves me worried. As these are the rough specs we thought of the systems: Proc AMD64 based (2800+ onwards) Mem 1Gb (PC 333 or 400 depending on price) HDD 160 S-ATA HDD (with at least 6 partitions, 5 for system, 1 for storage) DVD-RW/RAM optic unit CD-RW 52-32-52 optic unit Graphics: 1) nVidia based graphics solutions <- This right here is an issue in itself! Though they've got the best support and best performing drivers around. 2) S3 based graphics, using OpenSource Drivers. Best suited for Desktop system, with limited garphics use (i.e, not for gaming or the like) Sound: EMU10K1 Audigy2 Value class cards or VIA 8235/8237 class cards (as these two types have native ALSA hardware mixing capabilities) The rest of the hardware is pretty much standard (USB keyboard, mice and 17" LCD monitor) Of the above (assuming no changes to Fedora installation), obviously the hardware is an issue. We want to offer some lean 'n mean hardware, but without the drivers to operate it... I guess they won't go too far. We've thought of a few ways to walk around this issue, like if we just leave Fedora be and go for another distro (we wouldn't want to do that, though) or offer the drivers as a separate disk with installation instructions, and probably those packages we would have had added to the system... BUT this could also in itself be an issue if in anyway there's a restriction to do this as well. I'm going through the licenses of Flash, RealPlayer and the nVidia (and ATi) drivers as well... I didn't expect this to be easy... Just to clarify: Even changing default theme (to another GPL'ed one) would cause an issue with the trademark? Even if the theme COMES with Fedora in a default installation? PS: I really wouldn't want to relegate Fedora systems to "compatibility-value" boxes, as I know how good the system can really be. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDihsaXM+XOp70dwoRAjkBAJ0c9h38w8po1chstKh/HkKh0zZwDQCdH/J1 Knk1rWGzy98FQabyYoivfRc= =8qVc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 28 04:39:13 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:09:13 +0530 Subject: Fedora Core 5 test 1 : Press In-Reply-To: <9590b2a80511270439s2c14b261j661802d5925f0d9f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4388DF20.2020402@redhat.com> <9590b2a80511270439s2c14b261j661802d5925f0d9f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <438A89F1.6070306@redhat.com> Thijs H wrote: > Hello, > > I've added a link to an announcement on Tweakers.net > , a very popular website in The Netherlands. On > http://babelfish.altavista.com you can translate the page, but I can > also write a summary. Where should I put the summary? Create a sub page called Translation, write one or a blurb and link it from the PressArchive page. regards Rahul From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 28 05:28:21 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:58:21 +0530 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> Hi >Guess, Fedora is best suited for individual use only... As going >through all the restrictions, and balancing what most users expect to >find in their comptuers, it'd deffinitely be hard to market such >computers. Despite the computer's raw power. As I said earlier, what >worries me the most is the hardware part, as I can leave the system to >a default (kickstart) installation, letting users configure their >users, change root's password, etc., but (and I would too) users >expect the hardware they buy a new system with to flawlessly work with >the OS the system shipped. This is what leaves me worried. As these >are the rough specs we thought of the systems: > Like you have mentioned Kickstart has all sort of hooks for OEM to use so the infrastructure to do more than individual deployments is certainly there along with GFS, Xen and so on. Jesse Keating did a presentation on Fedora for OEM distributions in FUDCon1 which you might want to read http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon/FUDCon1/ > We've thought of a few ways to walk around this issue, like if >we just leave Fedora be and go for another distro (we wouldn't want to >do that, though) or offer the drivers as a separate disk with >installation instructions, and probably those packages we would have >had added to the system... BUT this could also in itself be an issue >if in anyway there's a restriction to do this as well. I'm going >through the licenses of Flash, RealPlayer and the nVidia (and ATi) >drivers as well... I didn't expect this to be easy... > > I cannot offer legal advise but here are some of my personal opinions. Regardless of any distribution you use, you would have similar trademark guidelines in place to prevent confusion. As long as you dont modify Fedora in anyway and simple redistribute it with the additional packages clearly indicated as such the trademark guidelines should not affect you. Do a license audit of the add on packages and if the licenses allow redistribution without a EULA (Interactive installations is against the design goals of RPM) you can integrate them within a repository and have a post installation hook to pull in packages from a OEM repository or design a custom application say in GTK+ that has a druid or even a simple shell script and zenity (part of GNOME-utils) with fallbacks. The application would have the EULAs which the user can agree to before getting the necessary packages which can be launched on first login for the system administrator/user. As long as you make it clear that this application and whatever packages it uses is not part of Fedora this seems to be a clean solution to me. >Just to clarify: Even changing default theme (to another GPL'ed one) >would cause an issue with the trademark? Even if the theme COMES with >Fedora in a default installation? > > All of the Free and open source software licenses allow you to copy, modify and redistribute software licensed under them. Thats however orthogonal to the trademark guidelines. http://www.redhat.com/magazine/007may05/ Legal like security is a field where it pays to be paranoidal. So we have to assume worst case scenarios. If suppose the trademark protection guidelines allow the OEM to change the theme and if they switch the distribution to use one of the al1y GPL'ed theme included in Fedora as the default, that would be aesthetically non appealing even while serving the functionality it is designed for, leaving users of this modified distribution leaving a bad impression on what Fedora is. So thats potentially a scenario that the guidelines are meant to avoid. The alternative would be to get special exceptions which is a hassle. I would like to hear your plans with more details. How many systems are you planning to redistribute Fedora?, market segment, timeframe etc. regards Rahul From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 28 05:55:19 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:25:19 +0530 Subject: foss.in - Open Source Conference, Banglore - India Message-ID: <438A9BC7.70406@redhat.com> Hi foss.in is a open source conference in Banglore, India. See http://foss.in/2005/ for details. I will be travelling to Banglore today and planning to attend the conference in all the four days. Tejas is giving a speech on "Fedora - Bleeding Edge Culture". Myself and a few others will be in the Fedora stall. We will giving out handouts based on the talking points. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/TalkingPoints Possibly a few demonstrations and BOF's. I will report back on my impressions later. regards Rahul From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Mon Nov 28 06:50:44 2005 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 01:50:44 -0500 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> Message-ID: <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> I really appreciate your comments guys, even though I may sound like a stubborn nonsensical guy at times, I'm trying my best to get this right. Thus far I've gone through the nVidia and Flash licenses, they allow redistribution as long as the binary part of the packages is not changed (in the case of Flash, that's the package in itself and in the case of nVidia's driver, that's the X aspect of the package, as the kernel-side portion may require patches to get it built). In any case, both allow redistribution. I took a look at how other vendors are putting systems together, in particular HP workstations with some or another flavor of RHEL installed. We're not planning going with RHEL for a number or reasons (and thats not necesarily related to support subscriptions, more on that bellow). What I learned of how HP distributes their Workstations is by asking their users to log into their website to finish configuration of the Workstation (most likely to allow for third party software to be installed and properly acknowledge the users). So that there could be sort of a solution to our problem (details on this project and projected scope, etc, in a bit). Many of the extra packages we want to include are actually part of Fedora Extras, but that got out of Core (for some obvious and some not so obvious reasons), but which we consider could be considered as pluses, especially for our targetted audiences. The most spikey issue is of course that of Multimedia (as I have mentioned before), as people currenly expect to be able to have some sort of multimedia capabilities... Still while not directly providing the packages, would proper documentation on how to install them, plus disclaimers that if the user so chooses to install, say a DVD player, even though the validity of libdvdcss in Linux is doubtious (at the very least), the Fedora Foundation, the Fedora Project and ourselves (system builders) cannot be held responsible for the use given to such applications and tools, are not liable to responsibility from legal issues of any kind derived from the use there of? Sorry if my question is a bit confusing, but what I mean is that if we warn the users, even though providing the info on how to install such applications, but not directly providing the applications per se, and stating that any problems derived from the use of such apps, is the sole responsibility of the user and the user alone, would that still be a violation to the guidelines of Fedora Foundation and trademark use? Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > >> Guess, Fedora is best suited for individual use only... As going >> through all the restrictions, and balancing what most users expect to >> find in their comptuers, it'd deffinitely be hard to market such >> computers. Despite the computer's raw power. As I said earlier, what >> worries me the most is the hardware part, as I can leave the system to >> a default (kickstart) installation, letting users configure their >> users, change root's password, etc., but (and I would too) users >> expect the hardware they buy a new system with to flawlessly work with >> the OS the system shipped. This is what leaves me worried. As these >> are the rough specs we thought of the systems: >> > Like you have mentioned Kickstart has all sort of hooks for OEM to use > so the infrastructure to do more than individual deployments is > certainly there along with GFS, Xen and so on. Jesse Keating did a > presentation on Fedora for OEM distributions in FUDCon1 which you > might want to read > http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon/FUDCon1/ Thanks a lot, Rahul. I'll certainly take a look at it! Certainly Kickstart would be the way to go, plus taking advantage of the capability of Anaconda to install extra disks from the first boot interface. Whether the user decides or not to use the "extras" disk, would be up to him/her, and as such the Fedora intallation would be safeguarded that way, because up until that point, the installation will be a pristine Fedora default. > >> We've thought of a few ways to walk around this issue, like if >> we just leave Fedora be and go for another distro (we wouldn't want to >> do that, though) or offer the drivers as a separate disk with >> installation instructions, and probably those packages we would have >> had added to the system... BUT this could also in itself be an issue >> if in anyway there's a restriction to do this as well. I'm going >> through the licenses of Flash, RealPlayer and the nVidia (and ATi) >> drivers as well... I didn't expect this to be easy... >> >> > I cannot offer legal advise but here are some of my personal opinions. > Regardless of any distribution you use, you would have similar > trademark guidelines in place to prevent confusion. As long as you > dont modify Fedora in anyway and simple redistribute it with the > additional packages clearly indicated as such the trademark guidelines > should not affect you. Do a license audit of the add on packages and > if the licenses allow redistribution without a EULA (Interactive > installations is against the design goals of RPM) you can integrate > them within a repository and have a post installation hook to pull in > packages from a OEM repository or design a custom application say in > GTK+ that has a druid or even a simple shell script and zenity (part > of GNOME-utils) with fallbacks. The application would have the EULAs > which the user can agree to before getting the necessary packages > which can be launched on first login for the system > administrator/user. As long as you make it clear that this application > and whatever packages it uses is not part of Fedora this seems to be a > clean solution to me. Well, just to round up a bit more what I said earlier. When looking at how HP configures their Workstations, a similar idea could be done here. Either require the user to visit certain webiste to gather additional information on how to set up their systems, or tell them up front in the documentation with a very visible, nice looking, EASY TO FOLLOW(1) installation guide and first steps with the new system, so that they understand that up to that point during first boot system setup, the system is a clean Fedora default installation, and what follows is our post-configuration to get all the additional programs and device drivers in place for intended system use (as advertised by us). The tricky part will be to have good Fedora advertising and still provide some extra functionality that will (hopefully) make users buy more systems from us. This blance between our intention to be true to Fedora, and yet have some value added to systems built by us, will be the REAL challenge. Especially to avoid striding too much away from a Fedora's default installation. > >> Just to clarify: Even changing default theme (to another GPL'ed one) >> would cause an issue with the trademark? Even if the theme COMES with >> Fedora in a default installation? >> >> > All of the Free and open source software licenses allow you to copy, > modify and redistribute software licensed under them. Thats however > orthogonal to the trademark guidelines. > > http://www.redhat.com/magazine/007may05/ > I'll take a look at that issue of Red Hat Mag. Anyway, I believe that the easiest way will be to have default settings an leave the users decide what they want... We like the clearlooks olive theme better... (though I have to admit I like it a lot too when combined clearlooks window border with Bluecurve Strawberry or Orange GTK colors) > Legal like security is a field where it pays to be paranoidal. So we > have to assume worst case scenarios. If suppose the trademark > protection guidelines allow the OEM to change the theme and if they > switch the distribution to use one of the al1y GPL'ed theme included > in Fedora as the default, that would be aesthetically non appealing > even while serving the functionality it is designed for, leaving users > of this modified distribution leaving a bad impression on what Fedora > is. So thats potentially a scenario that the guidelines are meant to > avoid. The alternative would be to get special exceptions which is a > hassle. Yes, and because I know that is taht I'm trying to figure out what would be the best way to balance user requests with what can be provided with our systems, and having this wonderful distribution as the core of it all > > > I would like to hear your plans with more details. How many systems > are you planning to redistribute Fedora?, market segment, timeframe etc. > > regards > Rahul The whole plan for the Fedora based computers is like this: It all started when one of my best friends asked me to insall Linux on his PC and he became immediately hooked, switched in a matter of days... According to what we have gathered thus far, there is a potential market in Mexico, quite big. Since we are a poor nation, and given the fact that usually computer hardware down here runs for at least twice as much as in the US, a cheapper alternative is needed. Not only that, but the systems sold by some of the big names in the industry can run for several thousand dollars for a top of the line system, while a mid-range system can still be quite pricey, we're talking that a Windows Media Center computer by HP can easily run for as much as $3500 USD. Mid-range and entry-level PCs while cheapper, usually lack a lot in the hardware department and even when they may have powerful components like processors and the like, usually the system is lacking in memory (like a P4 2.8 GHz with 256 Mb RAM with Windows XP on it) and are usually quite bloated in the software department (especially start up programs). So we started to think of ways to get better hardware at lower prices, and since we both use Linux we thought that it could only be natural to use Linux. But we've also identified some necessities from the users with whom we have most contact, like the need for really simple and to the point applications (we know Linux distros usually have plenty of those), easy enough to use interface and updates system (who can beat yum, anyway?!), etc. However, there is an increasing necessity for multimedia compliance, and here are the spikes. Because during the second half of the nineties, when multimedia systems bloomed, also bloomed the mp3 audio format, and very quickly the people started to compress all their CD libraries into their computers usin mp3... And when the world learnt that the format was not free and a license was required, that ruled out many Linux systems. At any rate, a lot of people has asked us if they'd be able to transfer their existin library into Linux, hence the need for a media player capable of playing mp3 (and for some, wma, too). The DVD issue is not as a big deal as the mp3 thing is, becuase a lot of people simply have a home DVD to watch their movies on, so they don't actually care about a DVD player, but they DO care about web and streaming video content... Another problem as the most widely used formats aren't free either, Microsoft's Windows Media Video and AVIs are quite common place on websites, not to mention other proprietary formats like Real Video and QuickTime. Was because of these "needs" that we decided that maybe including a media player like mplyaer, VLC or Xine could be a good idea, but when looked from above, it actually doesn't... Even though simply not providing a means to play this content could be a nay-say for many users. Another issue we found that users were constatntly telling us, has got to do with security, virii and all those exploits of which Windows has been subject of as of late. Fortunately Linux is inherently safer than Windows, anyway, the real reason for that is that with all the spyware that some Windows computers mange to get, the performance of a computer starts to deteriorate to ridiculous point, so people have actualy asked us about "durability" of a Linux system, said another way "How much time until it start crawling instead of running". We believe Linux can help us there too. So having this in mind and the fact that especially computer enthusiastic users have approached us becuase we are asidous Linux users, made us believe that we could sell what is still considered to be a higher-end system for quite a reasonable price, with support and a Free operating system installed. So initially we'll try to sell the systems to computer savvy users, but the ultimate goal is to try and address as much as we can the needs of those "less literate" users. Having the hardware and the software in place is not all there is to it. Just like Apple did in late nineties, we believe that Linux should be sold "in style". That's why we set the hardware standards for our intended systems a bit too high and yet affordable. The sum of the parts of the hardware for a system like the one of my last post (and dpending on the graphics card the system has) can run for as much as $1200 USD (sacrificing in the graphics dept., with say a GeForce 6600 plain). Still a very imprssive system, yet quite affordable, as 1200 bucks is usually what an entry-level (with mid-range specs) costs. Of course there are systems for as low as 500 dollars, but they're too tight in hardware. The intention is to make the systems last (in the hardware dept., at least) for some at least 5 years. For us profits would be in support and hardware sells... If we get a critical mass big enough, should be enough for the business to maintain itself. However (and I did read about this in the guidelines), we'd have to figure out an advetisement campaing that not only puts Fedora on the radar of buyers, but also would not be in contraposition with said guidelines to not be misleading and stuff... and being this especially true if promoted as a gaming rig (for instance) with the waves of comercial games that have announced Linux support and all, as fundamental hardware support (in this case graphics) is not part of the distribution. Other market segment we'll try to get into is the small to medium office desktop, as we've had some possitive feedback in this regard. Corporate scale is not part of our scope, at least not yet. And for these systems, while still keeping much of the fancyness of the hardware, we've agreed not to soup up the graphics hardware, as such embedded Chrome chips are ideal in this scenario, as they even have kernel-level DRM drivers nowadays, so even graphics 3D accelartion is possible (if not as fast and fancy as with the "higher"-end systems we are planning. As I said before, multimedia is a quite a big deal, even in an office environment, where the users may have setup a VoIP prgram, and they'd still want to be able to listen to their radio stations or music libraries, that's why we've also payed special attention to audio hardware, and deal with that which we know will be able to offer customers that without worrying about if they could dmix Skype or TeamSpeak while they're listeningto music, playing their games, watching videos or whatever. Right now we have very narrow options for this hardware mixing requirement (as I said my previous e-mail), and though there are more options, we've been unable to find (here) hardware based on other chips which are known to have good ALSA hardware mixing support (like Trident's 4D Wave, besides the ones mentioned) So pretty much these are as many details as we have right now... We are working our hearts out to research more about this legal mumbo-jumbo. We plan on developing these plans in the upcoming 6 months. The goal is to try and see how many systems are we able to get people interested on... I just hope we could find a balance between "cool" factor and legal compliance. So I guess that during the next 6 months our milestone will be set at approximately 1000 systems (conservative figures, I know). (1) I've actually seen people render simple things into quite complicated matters. From chitlesh at gmail.com Mon Nov 28 13:17:55 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:17:55 +0000 Subject: foss.in - Open Source Conference, Banglore - India In-Reply-To: <438A9BC7.70406@redhat.com> References: <438A9BC7.70406@redhat.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511280517y63d8470fk91cf9bd283ee8a34@mail.gmail.com> > We will giving out handouts based on > the talking points. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/TalkingPoints > do you have these handouts on pdf ? if yes, where can i download it? because they might be useful to me since i will give a small introduction of FC to my mates at uni (my public only use linux at uni) thanks Chitlesh GOORAH From gdk at redhat.com Mon Nov 28 15:51:30 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:51:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: As the usage guidelines stand *right now*, you *cannot* use the Fedora name if you alter the bits *in any way*. This has been the policy since Fedora was first created -- largely because no one had the time to deal with questions like the ones you're raising right now. I'm trying to push for a "based on Fedora" policy, which would allow resellers/LUGs/whomever to get some value from the Fedora name without exposing Fedora to liability. But there's no policy of this kind in place yet, and it involves hand-to-hand combat with lawyers, so I make no promises about this policy appearing any time soon. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > I really appreciate your comments guys, even though I may sound like a > stubborn nonsensical guy at times, I'm trying my best to get this right. > > Thus far I've gone through the nVidia and Flash licenses, they allow > redistribution as long as the binary part of the packages is not changed > (in the case of Flash, that's the package in itself and in the case of > nVidia's driver, that's the X aspect of the package, as the kernel-side > portion may require patches to get it built). In any case, both allow > redistribution. I took a look at how other vendors are putting systems > together, in particular HP workstations with some or another flavor of > RHEL installed. We're not planning going with RHEL for a number or > reasons (and thats not necesarily related to support subscriptions, more > on that bellow). What I learned of how HP distributes their Workstations > is by asking their users to log into their website to finish > configuration of the Workstation (most likely to allow for third party > software to be installed and properly acknowledge the users). So that > there could be sort of a solution to our problem (details on this > project and projected scope, etc, in a bit). Many of the extra packages > we want to include are actually part of Fedora Extras, but that got out > of Core (for some obvious and some not so obvious reasons), but which we > consider could be considered as pluses, especially for our targetted > audiences. > > The most spikey issue is of course that of Multimedia (as I have > mentioned before), as people currenly expect to be able to have some > sort of multimedia capabilities... Still while not directly providing > the packages, would proper documentation on how to install them, plus > disclaimers that if the user so chooses to install, say a DVD player, > even though the validity of libdvdcss in Linux is doubtious (at the very > least), the Fedora Foundation, the Fedora Project and ourselves (system > builders) cannot be held responsible for the use given to such > applications and tools, are not liable to responsibility from legal > issues of any kind derived from the use there of? Sorry if my question > is a bit confusing, but what I mean is that if we warn the users, even > though providing the info on how to install such applications, but not > directly providing the applications per se, and stating that any > problems derived from the use of such apps, is the sole responsibility > of the user and the user alone, would that still be a violation to the > guidelines of Fedora Foundation and trademark use? > > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > Hi > > > > > >> Guess, Fedora is best suited for individual use only... As going > >> through all the restrictions, and balancing what most users expect to > >> find in their comptuers, it'd deffinitely be hard to market such > >> computers. Despite the computer's raw power. As I said earlier, what > >> worries me the most is the hardware part, as I can leave the system to > >> a default (kickstart) installation, letting users configure their > >> users, change root's password, etc., but (and I would too) users > >> expect the hardware they buy a new system with to flawlessly work with > >> the OS the system shipped. This is what leaves me worried. As these > >> are the rough specs we thought of the systems: > >> > > Like you have mentioned Kickstart has all sort of hooks for OEM to use > > so the infrastructure to do more than individual deployments is > > certainly there along with GFS, Xen and so on. Jesse Keating did a > > presentation on Fedora for OEM distributions in FUDCon1 which you > > might want to read > > http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon/FUDCon1/ > > Thanks a lot, Rahul. I'll certainly take a look at it! Certainly > Kickstart would be the way to go, plus taking advantage of the > capability of Anaconda to install extra disks from the first boot > interface. Whether the user decides or not to use the "extras" disk, > would be up to him/her, and as such the Fedora intallation would be > safeguarded that way, because up until that point, the installation will > be a pristine Fedora default. > > > > >> We've thought of a few ways to walk around this issue, like if > >> we just leave Fedora be and go for another distro (we wouldn't want to > >> do that, though) or offer the drivers as a separate disk with > >> installation instructions, and probably those packages we would have > >> had added to the system... BUT this could also in itself be an issue > >> if in anyway there's a restriction to do this as well. I'm going > >> through the licenses of Flash, RealPlayer and the nVidia (and ATi) > >> drivers as well... I didn't expect this to be easy... > >> > >> > > I cannot offer legal advise but here are some of my personal opinions. > > Regardless of any distribution you use, you would have similar > > trademark guidelines in place to prevent confusion. As long as you > > dont modify Fedora in anyway and simple redistribute it with the > > additional packages clearly indicated as such the trademark guidelines > > should not affect you. Do a license audit of the add on packages and > > if the licenses allow redistribution without a EULA (Interactive > > installations is against the design goals of RPM) you can integrate > > them within a repository and have a post installation hook to pull in > > packages from a OEM repository or design a custom application say in > > GTK+ that has a druid or even a simple shell script and zenity (part > > of GNOME-utils) with fallbacks. The application would have the EULAs > > which the user can agree to before getting the necessary packages > > which can be launched on first login for the system > > administrator/user. As long as you make it clear that this application > > and whatever packages it uses is not part of Fedora this seems to be a > > clean solution to me. > > Well, just to round up a bit more what I said earlier. When looking at > how HP configures their Workstations, a similar idea could be done here. > Either require the user to visit certain webiste to gather additional > information on how to set up their systems, or tell them up front in the > documentation with a very visible, nice looking, EASY TO FOLLOW(1) > installation guide and first steps with the new system, so that they > understand that up to that point during first boot system setup, the > system is a clean Fedora default installation, and what follows is our > post-configuration to get all the additional programs and device drivers > in place for intended system use (as advertised by us). The tricky part > will be to have good Fedora advertising and still provide some extra > functionality that will (hopefully) make users buy more systems from us. > This blance between our intention to be true to Fedora, and yet have > some value added to systems built by us, will be the REAL challenge. > Especially to avoid striding too much away from a Fedora's default > installation. > > > > >> Just to clarify: Even changing default theme (to another GPL'ed one) > >> would cause an issue with the trademark? Even if the theme COMES with > >> Fedora in a default installation? > >> > >> > > All of the Free and open source software licenses allow you to copy, > > modify and redistribute software licensed under them. Thats however > > orthogonal to the trademark guidelines. > > > > http://www.redhat.com/magazine/007may05/ > > > I'll take a look at that issue of Red Hat Mag. Anyway, I believe that > the easiest way will be to have default settings an leave the users > decide what they want... We like the clearlooks olive theme better... > (though I have to admit I like it a lot too when combined clearlooks > window border with Bluecurve Strawberry or Orange GTK colors) > > > Legal like security is a field where it pays to be paranoidal. So we > > have to assume worst case scenarios. If suppose the trademark > > protection guidelines allow the OEM to change the theme and if they > > switch the distribution to use one of the al1y GPL'ed theme included > > in Fedora as the default, that would be aesthetically non appealing > > even while serving the functionality it is designed for, leaving users > > of this modified distribution leaving a bad impression on what Fedora > > is. So thats potentially a scenario that the guidelines are meant to > > avoid. The alternative would be to get special exceptions which is a > > hassle. > > Yes, and because I know that is taht I'm trying to figure out what would > be the best way to balance user requests with what can be provided with > our systems, and having this wonderful distribution as the core of it all > > > > > > > I would like to hear your plans with more details. How many systems > > are you planning to redistribute Fedora?, market segment, timeframe etc. > > > > regards > > Rahul > > The whole plan for the Fedora based computers is like this: > > It all started when one of my best friends asked me to insall Linux on > his PC and he became immediately hooked, switched in a matter of days... > > According to what we have gathered thus far, there is a potential market > in Mexico, quite big. Since we are a poor nation, and given the fact > that usually computer hardware down here runs for at least twice as much > as in the US, a cheapper alternative is needed. Not only that, but the > systems sold by some of the big names in the industry can run for > several thousand dollars for a top of the line system, while a mid-range > system can still be quite pricey, we're talking that a Windows Media > Center computer by HP can easily run for as much as $3500 USD. Mid-range > and entry-level PCs while cheapper, usually lack a lot in the hardware > department and even when they may have powerful components like > processors and the like, usually the system is lacking in memory (like a > P4 2.8 GHz with 256 Mb RAM with Windows XP on it) and are usually quite > bloated in the software department (especially start up programs). > > So we started to think of ways to get better hardware at lower prices, > and since we both use Linux we thought that it could only be natural to > use Linux. But we've also identified some necessities from the users > with whom we have most contact, like the need for really simple and to > the point applications (we know Linux distros usually have plenty of > those), easy enough to use interface and updates system (who can beat > yum, anyway?!), etc. However, there is an increasing necessity for > multimedia compliance, and here are the spikes. Because during the > second half of the nineties, when multimedia systems bloomed, also > bloomed the mp3 audio format, and very quickly the people started to > compress all their CD libraries into their computers usin mp3... And > when the world learnt that the format was not free and a license was > required, that ruled out many Linux systems. At any rate, a lot of > people has asked us if they'd be able to transfer their existin library > into Linux, hence the need for a media player capable of playing mp3 > (and for some, wma, too). > > The DVD issue is not as a big deal as the mp3 thing is, becuase a lot of > people simply have a home DVD to watch their movies on, so they don't > actually care about a DVD player, but they DO care about web and > streaming video content... Another problem as the most widely used > formats aren't free either, Microsoft's Windows Media Video and AVIs are > quite common place on websites, not to mention other proprietary formats > like Real Video and QuickTime. Was because of these "needs" that we > decided that maybe including a media player like mplyaer, VLC or Xine > could be a good idea, but when looked from above, it actually doesn't... > Even though simply not providing a means to play this content could be a > nay-say for many users. > > Another issue we found that users were constatntly telling us, has got > to do with security, virii and all those exploits of which Windows has > been subject of as of late. Fortunately Linux is inherently safer than > Windows, anyway, the real reason for that is that with all the spyware > that some Windows computers mange to get, the performance of a computer > starts to deteriorate to ridiculous point, so people have actualy asked > us about "durability" of a Linux system, said another way "How much time > until it start crawling instead of running". We believe Linux can help > us there too. > > So having this in mind and the fact that especially computer > enthusiastic users have approached us becuase we are asidous Linux > users, made us believe that we could sell what is still considered to be > a higher-end system for quite a reasonable price, with support and a > Free operating system installed. > > So initially we'll try to sell the systems to computer savvy users, but > the ultimate goal is to try and address as much as we can the needs of > those "less literate" users. Having the hardware and the software in > place is not all there is to it. Just like Apple did in late nineties, > we believe that Linux should be sold "in style". That's why we set the > hardware standards for our intended systems a bit too high and yet > affordable. The sum of the parts of the hardware for a system like the > one of my last post (and dpending on the graphics card the system has) > can run for as much as $1200 USD (sacrificing in the graphics dept., > with say a GeForce 6600 plain). Still a very imprssive system, yet quite > affordable, as 1200 bucks is usually what an entry-level (with mid-range > specs) costs. Of course there are systems for as low as 500 dollars, but > they're too tight in hardware. The intention is to make the systems last > (in the hardware dept., at least) for some at least 5 years. > > For us profits would be in support and hardware sells... If we get a > critical mass big enough, should be enough for the business to maintain > itself. > > However (and I did read about this in the guidelines), we'd have to > figure out an advetisement campaing that not only puts Fedora on the > radar of buyers, but also would not be in contraposition with said > guidelines to not be misleading and stuff... and being this especially > true if promoted as a gaming rig (for instance) with the waves of > comercial games that have announced Linux support and all, as > fundamental hardware support (in this case graphics) is not part of the > distribution. Other market segment we'll try to get into is the small > to medium office desktop, as we've had some possitive feedback in this > regard. Corporate scale is not part of our scope, at least not yet. And > for these systems, while still keeping much of the fancyness of the > hardware, we've agreed not to soup up the graphics hardware, as such > embedded Chrome chips are ideal in this scenario, as they even have > kernel-level DRM drivers nowadays, so even graphics 3D accelartion is > possible (if not as fast and fancy as with the "higher"-end systems we > are planning. > > As I said before, multimedia is a quite a big deal, even in an office > environment, where the users may have setup a VoIP prgram, and they'd > still want to be able to listen to their radio stations or music > libraries, that's why we've also payed special attention to audio > hardware, and deal with that which we know will be able to offer > customers that without worrying about if they could dmix Skype or > TeamSpeak while they're listeningto music, playing their games, watching > videos or whatever. Right now we have very narrow options for this > hardware mixing requirement (as I said my previous e-mail), and though > there are more options, we've been unable to find (here) hardware based > on other chips which are known to have good ALSA hardware mixing > support (like Trident's 4D Wave, besides the ones mentioned) > > So pretty much these are as many details as we have right now... We are > working our hearts out to research more about this legal mumbo-jumbo. We > plan on developing these plans in the upcoming 6 months. The goal is to > try and see how many systems are we able to get people interested on... > I just hope we could find a balance between "cool" factor and legal > compliance. > > So I guess that during the next 6 months our milestone will be set at > approximately 1000 systems (conservative figures, I know). > > (1) I've actually seen people render simple things into quite > complicated matters. > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From mattdm at mattdm.org Mon Nov 28 16:01:21 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:01:21 -0500 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <20051128160121.GA4630@jadzia.bu.edu> On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 10:51:30AM -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > As the usage guidelines stand *right now*, you *cannot* use the Fedora > name if you alter the bits *in any way*. > This has been the policy since Fedora was first created -- largely because > no one had the time to deal with questions like the ones you're raising > right now. I think a common OEM case is: What if the CD included is stock Fedora, but the installed system has been modified? I know of several vendors which do this already, and are calling it "Fedora".... -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From jkeating at j2solutions.net Mon Nov 28 16:06:02 2005 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 08:06:02 -0800 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <1133193962.2833.29.camel@yoda.loki.me> On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 01:50 -0500, Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > > Thanks a lot, Rahul. I'll certainly take a look at it! Certainly > Kickstart would be the way to go, plus taking advantage of the > capability of Anaconda to install extra disks from the first boot > interface. Whether the user decides or not to use the "extras" disk, > would be up to him/her, and as such the Fedora intallation would be > safeguarded that way, because up until that point, the installation will > be a pristine Fedora default. You should also take a look at what current vendors are doing. Pogo Linux and Penguin Computing both sell systems pre-installed with Fedora. If I remember correctly (and I used to work for Pogo) both do modify the final install before it goes out the door. However I don't think any legal action has been taken against them as it isn't really done in a damaging to Fedora kind of way. That said, it isn't exactly legal, and I didn't like doing it. What I wanted to do while at Pogo Linux, was to ship a system with Just Fedora and all updates installed, but with a Post-Install CD that users would run. This CD would "fix" a few things, install some custom and 3rd party packages, perhaps change some graphics defaults and stuff like that. Thus we are SHIPPING an unmodified Fedora, and the end user is given the choice to modify it or keep it stock. What we did instead was to pre-install all that stuff before it went out the door. I still developed a post-install CD set, one that also included all the updates at spin time. The buyer could do a Fedora re-install for whatever reason (happens a lot, they want their own partitioning scheme / package set) then user our Post-Install CD to do the updates and last mile customization. I am not sure of the process that Penguin uses. Hope this helps! -- Jesse Keating RHCE (geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating From gdk at redhat.com Mon Nov 28 16:10:26 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:10:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <20051128160121.GA4630@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> <20051128160121.GA4630@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 10:51:30AM -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > As the usage guidelines stand *right now*, you *cannot* use the Fedora > > name if you alter the bits *in any way*. > > This has been the policy since Fedora was first created -- largely because > > no one had the time to deal with questions like the ones you're raising > > right now. > > I think a common OEM case is: What if the CD included is stock Fedora, but > the installed system has been modified? I know of several vendors which > do this already, and are calling it "Fedora".... Yep. And technically, according to the current guidelines, they are in violation. Which means that it's incumbent upon us to come up with a more reasonable policy as soon as possible. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan From jkeating at j2solutions.net Mon Nov 28 16:33:57 2005 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 08:33:57 -0800 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> <20051128160121.GA4630@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1133195637.2833.34.camel@yoda.loki.me> On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 11:10 -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > Yep. And technically, according to the current guidelines, they are in > violation. Which means that it's incumbent upon us to come up with a more > reasonable policy as soon as possible. Greg, I'd like to take this up with the Fedora Foundation. I've got that unique experience that I've worked for one of these OEM folks and I know what is reasonable on their end, and can work with the Foundation and Legal to come up with something that is reasonable for both ends. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating From Frederic.Hornain at GB.BE Mon Nov 28 16:57:22 2005 From: Frederic.Hornain at GB.BE (Hornain Frederic) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:57:22 +0100 Subject: CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing Message-ID: Hi, Thanks for you remarks Chitlesh. Well, I think it is fixed now. Following the Brain Dump List I have done a non-exhaustive of Books related to Fedora topic at the following URL: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Books If you have any remarks feel free to contact me. BR Fred Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com -----Original Message----- From: Chitlesh GOORAH [mailto:cgoorah at yahoo.com.au] Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 6:32 PM To: Hornain Frederic Subject: CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing Hello Frederic Hornain, I've noticed that you have made changes to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Books but the last line CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing doesn't seem appropriate. maybe its just copy-paste. take care Chitlesh GOORAH Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com From jspaleta at gmail.com Mon Nov 28 17:04:42 2005 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:04:42 -0500 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <604aa7910511280904v1dc55bdaof4182cfcb591a7ca@mail.gmail.com> On 11/28/05, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > I'm trying to push for a "based on Fedora" policy, which would allow > resellers/LUGs/whomever to get some value from the Fedora name without > exposing Fedora to liability. But there's no policy of this kind in place > yet, and it involves hand-to-hand combat with lawyers, so I make no > promises about this policy appearing any time soon. Don't forget to equip your +3 charisma cursed briefcase before you go into battle -jef"and remember you have to roll 16 or better on a 1d20 to hit with any 'common sense' spell"spaleta From nman64 at n-man.com Mon Nov 28 17:11:44 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:11:44 -0600 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <1133195637.2833.34.camel@yoda.loki.me> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> <20051128160121.GA4630@jadzia.bu.edu> <1133195637.2833.34.camel@yoda.loki.me> Message-ID: <438B3A50.4060605@n-man.com> As yet-another-workaround that is technically legal, you can offer all of your changes to Fedora as a separate service that can be conducted before dispatching the system. Basically, you sell the person the computer, give them Fedora for free, and bundle a free service of the modifications to Fedora. You would, of course, have to allow your customers to opt out of these changes, but it is a trivial way to work around the current guidelines. You could produce a CD and instructions to go along with the systems that allow the users to replicate the changes on their own, but you cannot apply these changes to the Fedora CDs you provide. Note that this does not solve your legal concerns with regard to bundling third-party and patent-encumbered software. Those are issues you must address separately. Be sure to investigate the legal and liability ramifications in your locale of adding patent-encumbered software like MP3 and DVD support. It may be illegal for you to bundle these things just like it is for Red Hat to do so. I'm not familiar with Mexico's policies with regard to the United States' software and process patents. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- From gdk at redhat.com Mon Nov 28 18:37:00 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:37:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <1133195637.2833.34.camel@yoda.loki.me> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> <20051128160121.GA4630@jadzia.bu.edu> <1133195637.2833.34.camel@yoda.loki.me> Message-ID: Sounds good to me. Jesse, I'll get with you and we'll work on a draft that we can present to counsel. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 11:10 -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > Yep. And technically, according to the current guidelines, they are in > > violation. Which means that it's incumbent upon us to come up with a more > > reasonable policy as soon as possible. > > Greg, I'd like to take this up with the Fedora Foundation. I've got > that unique experience that I've worked for one of these OEM folks and I > know what is reasonable on their end, and can work with the Foundation > and Legal to come up with something that is reasonable for both ends. > > -- > Jesse Keating RHCE (geek.j2solutions.net) > Fedora Legacy Team (www.fedoralegacy.org) > GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) > > Was I helpful? Let others know: > http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From jeremy.hogan at gmail.com Mon Nov 28 20:34:30 2005 From: jeremy.hogan at gmail.com (Jeremy Hogan) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:34:30 -0500 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <20051128160121.GA4630@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> <20051128160121.GA4630@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <556f970a0511281234m4685eb34rd34d2254ea93199@mail.gmail.com> On 11/28/05, Matthew Miller wrote: > > I think a common OEM case is: What if the CD included is stock Fedora, but > the installed system has been modified? I know of several vendors which > do this already, and are calling it "Fedora".... Or perhaps a stock install, with stock CDs in the box, and their own add-on disc which makes no mention of Fedora? --jeremy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkeating at j2solutions.net Mon Nov 28 20:59:18 2005 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:59:18 -0800 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <556f970a0511281234m4685eb34rd34d2254ea93199@mail.gmail.com> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> <20051128160121.GA4630@jadzia.bu.edu> <556f970a0511281234m4685eb34rd34d2254ea93199@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1133211558.24512.47.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 15:34 -0500, Jeremy Hogan wrote: > Or perhaps a stock install, with stock CDs in the box, and their own > add-on disc which makes no mention of Fedora? When I did this for Pogo Linux, I called the add-on disk(s) Pogo Linux Post-install CDs for Fedora Core. Had to identify that they CDs were for Fedora, rather than for CentOS or SUSE or something like that. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating From mattdm at mattdm.org Mon Nov 28 21:03:28 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:03:28 -0500 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <1133211558.24512.47.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> <20051128160121.GA4630@jadzia.bu.edu> <556f970a0511281234m4685eb34rd34d2254ea93199@mail.gmail.com> <1133211558.24512.47.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> Message-ID: <20051128210328.GA23662@jadzia.bu.edu> On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 12:59:18PM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote: > > Or perhaps a stock install, with stock CDs in the box, and their own > > add-on disc which makes no mention of Fedora? > When I did this for Pogo Linux, I called the add-on disk(s) Pogo Linux > Post-install CDs for Fedora Core. Had to identify that they CDs were > for Fedora, rather than for CentOS or SUSE or something like that. And, lawyers or nay, you can totally do that, no matter what the trademark holder says, because it's functional, descriptive use. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From jkeating at j2solutions.net Mon Nov 28 21:37:47 2005 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:37:47 -0800 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <20051128210328.GA23662@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> <20051128160121.GA4630@jadzia.bu.edu> <556f970a0511281234m4685eb34rd34d2254ea93199@mail.gmail.com> <1133211558.24512.47.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> <20051128210328.GA23662@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1133213867.24512.67.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 16:03 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > > > And, lawyers or nay, you can totally do that, no matter what the trademark > holder says, because it's functional, descriptive use. Heh, thats what our lawyer told us (: The question comes what can we get away with putting on the system _before_ it goes out the door, and still advertise that we are installing Fedora on it. In the Red Hat Linux days, you couldn't even use Red Hat Linux or the logo unless each system came with a purchased box set of Red Hat Linux. Rather difficult to sell to a customer. Since Fedora doesn't have boxed copies, this guideline obviously doesn't work. So I hope to work with the Fedora group and RH's lawyer to come up with a new reasonable guide line that can be used with Fedora. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Tue Nov 29 00:17:16 2005 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:17:16 -0500 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <438B3A50.4060605@n-man.com> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> <20051128160121.GA4630@jadzia.bu.edu> <"Pin e.LNX.4.58.051128110 9210.31897"@gdk.devel.redhat.com> <1133195637.2833.34.camel@yoda.loki.me> <438B3A50.4060605@n-man.com> Message-ID: <438B9E0C.3060708@prodigy.net.mx> Patrick Barnes wrote: > As yet-another-workaround that is technically legal, you can offer all > of your changes to Fedora as a separate service that can be conducted > before dispatching the system. Basically, you sell the person the > computer, give them Fedora for free, and bundle a free service of the > modifications to Fedora. You would, of course, have to allow your > customers to opt out of these changes, but it is a trivial way to work > around the current guidelines. You could produce a CD and > instructions to go along with the systems that allow the users to > replicate the changes on their own, but you cannot apply these changes > to the Fedora CDs you provide. > > Note that this does not solve your legal concerns with regard to > bundling third-party and patent-encumbered software. Those are issues > you must address separately. Be sure to investigate the legal and > liability ramifications in your locale of adding patent-encumbered > software like MP3 and DVD support. It may be illegal for you to > bundle these things just like it is for Red Hat to do so. I'm not > familiar with Mexico's policies with regard to the United States' > software and process patents. > That was exactly what I meant, just by taking advantage of the "Install extra CDs" in Anaconda. Down here it is pretty much the same as in the US. That's why I thought of RealPlayer and DVD support to be left as a per user option... or not inlcuded at all... Which might just be what we'll end up doing. From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Tue Nov 29 00:31:56 2005 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:31:56 -0500 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <1133193962.2833.29.camel@yoda.loki.me> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> <1133193962.2833.29.camel@yoda.loki.me> Message-ID: <438BA17C.90800@prodigy.net.mx> Jesse Keating wrote: >On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 01:50 -0500, Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > > >>Thanks a lot, Rahul. I'll certainly take a look at it! Certainly >>Kickstart would be the way to go, plus taking advantage of the >>capability of Anaconda to install extra disks from the first boot >>interface. Whether the user decides or not to use the "extras" disk, >>would be up to him/her, and as such the Fedora intallation would be >>safeguarded that way, because up until that point, the installation will >>be a pristine Fedora default. >> >> > >You should also take a look at what current vendors are doing. Pogo >Linux and Penguin Computing both sell systems pre-installed with Fedora. >If I remember correctly (and I used to work for Pogo) both do modify the >final install before it goes out the door. However I don't think any >legal action has been taken against them as it isn't really done in a >damaging to Fedora kind of way. That said, it isn't exactly legal, and >I didn't like doing it. > >What I wanted to do while at Pogo Linux, was to ship a system with Just >Fedora and all updates installed, but with a Post-Install CD that users >would run. This CD would "fix" a few things, install some custom and >3rd party packages, perhaps change some graphics defaults and stuff like >that. Thus we are SHIPPING an unmodified Fedora, and the end user is >given the choice to modify it or keep it stock. What we did instead was >to pre-install all that stuff before it went out the door. I still >developed a post-install CD set, one that also included all the updates >at spin time. The buyer could do a Fedora re-install for whatever >reason (happens a lot, they want their own partitioning scheme / package >set) then user our Post-Install CD to do the updates and last mile >customization. > >I am not sure of the process that Penguin uses. > >Hope this helps! > > > This brings a question... If (for instance) avoiding the run of first boot (from a chrooted sysrescue session) the system is put up2date on a default install, would taht be considered modification? Most probably it would... I thought of the first boot post-install method as it seems to be the intended way for Fedora, only what would be the best way to ensable a disk to work in this way? From jkeating at j2solutions.net Tue Nov 29 01:37:38 2005 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:37:38 -0800 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <438BA17C.90800@prodigy.net.mx> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> <1133193962.2833.29.camel@yoda.loki.me> <438BA17C.90800@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <1133228258.24512.130.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 19:31 -0500, Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > This brings a question... If (for instance) avoiding the run of first > boot (from a chrooted sysrescue session) the system is put up2date on a > default install, would taht be considered modification? Most probably it > would... I thought of the first boot post-install method as it seems to > be the intended way for Fedora, only what would be the best way to > ensable a disk to work in this way? Difficult to say. In fact what I made use of was init's .unconfigured plugin. If init finds a /.unconfigured file it will call some TUI tools such as setting the root password, configuring the auth method, setting what services start, etc... some of the things that are outside the scope of firstboot. Honestly you probably should have your clients do some of firstboot if not all of it. I'd like to get a policy in place that allows you to ship a system with all the updates installed and even some extra software so we can avoid some of the trouble of trying to do this last mile stuff at the customer location. Customers have a way of forgetting to do it or messing it up. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Tue Nov 29 00:47:00 2005 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:47:00 -0500 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <1133228258.24512.130.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> <1133193962.2833.29.camel@yoda.loki.me> <438BA17C.90800@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <438BA504.3030806@prodigy.net.mx> Jesse Keating wrote: >On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 19:31 -0500, Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > > >>This brings a question... If (for instance) avoiding the run of first >>boot (from a chrooted sysrescue session) the system is put up2date on a >>default install, would taht be considered modification? Most probably it >>would... I thought of the first boot post-install method as it seems to >>be the intended way for Fedora, only what would be the best way to >>ensable a disk to work in this way? >> >> > >Difficult to say. In fact what I made use of was init's .unconfigured >plugin. If init finds a /.unconfigured file it will call some TUI tools >such as setting the root password, configuring the auth method, setting >what services start, etc... some of the things that are outside the >scope of firstboot. Honestly you probably should have your clients do >some of firstboot if not all of it. I'd like to get a policy in place >that allows you to ship a system with all the updates installed and even >some extra software so we can avoid some of the trouble of trying to do >this last mile stuff at the customer location. Customers have a way of >forgetting to do it or messing it up. > > > Yes, this kinda brakes the "keep it simple" objective... In any case, from what I gather even delivering Fedora Extras packages can be considered non standard. From marc.w at smlintl.com.au Tue Nov 29 01:47:21 2005 From: marc.w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:47:21 +0800 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <1133228258.24512.130.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> <1133193962.2833.29.camel@yoda.loki.me> <438BA17C.90800@prodigy.net.mx> <1133228258.24512.130.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> Message-ID: <1133228841.8868.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Creating update cd's I saw a post on a forum with someone created updated cd's so that you pre-download lets say each week/month a list of updates then update the computer prior to it leaving? I figure that the devs have enough on their plate than creating this sorta stuff but I would think something along those lines could be a possibility. Regards, Marc On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 17:37 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 19:31 -0500, Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > > This brings a question... If (for instance) avoiding the run of first > > boot (from a chrooted sysrescue session) the system is put up2date on a > > default install, would taht be considered modification? Most probably it > > would... I thought of the first boot post-install method as it seems to > > be the intended way for Fedora, only what would be the best way to > > ensable a disk to work in this way? > > Difficult to say. In fact what I made use of was init's .unconfigured > plugin. If init finds a /.unconfigured file it will call some TUI tools > such as setting the root password, configuring the auth method, setting > what services start, etc... some of the things that are outside the > scope of firstboot. Honestly you probably should have your clients do > some of firstboot if not all of it. I'd like to get a policy in place > that allows you to ship a system with all the updates installed and even > some extra software so we can avoid some of the trouble of trying to do > this last mile stuff at the customer location. Customers have a way of > forgetting to do it or messing it up. > From jkeating at j2solutions.net Tue Nov 29 01:51:30 2005 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:51:30 -0800 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <1133228841.8868.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> <1133193962.2833.29.camel@yoda.loki.me> <438BA17C.90800@prodigy.net.mx> <1133228258.24512.130.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> <1133228841.8868.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1133229090.24512.138.camel@prometheus.gamehouse.com> On Tue, 2005-11-29 at 09:47 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Creating update cd's I saw a post on a forum with someone created > updated cd's so that you pre-download lets say each week/month a list of > updates then update the computer prior to it leaving? > > I figure that the devs have enough on their plate than creating this > sorta stuff but I would think something along those lines could be a > possibility. I'm not sure what you're saying here. When I was shipping Fedora pre-installs, I used kickstart for everything. Part of the kickstart's %post scripts was a call to yum to update against a local mirror that I synced each night. Since each system was built/install to order, the system would get updates as of the day before or a couple days before it ships to the customer. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating From mattdm at mattdm.org Tue Nov 29 01:59:26 2005 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:59:26 -0500 Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <438BA504.3030806@prodigy.net.mx> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> <1133193962.2833.29.camel@yoda.loki.me> <438BA17C.90800@prodigy.net.mx> <438BA504.3030806@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <20051129015926.GA11209@jadzia.bu.edu> On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 07:47:00PM -0500, Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > Yes, this kinda brakes the "keep it simple" objective... In any case, > from what I gather even delivering Fedora Extras packages can be > considered non standard. If that's the case now, that *must* be changed in the clarified/additional rules being worked on. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From cnegus at mwt.net Tue Nov 29 02:44:52 2005 From: cnegus at mwt.net (Chris Negus) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:44:52 -0600 Subject: CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1133232292.16814.120.camel@einstein> On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 17:57 +0100, Hornain Frederic wrote: > Following the Brain Dump List I have done a non-exhaustive of Books > related to Fedora topic at the following URL: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Books > > If you have any remarks feel free to contact me. Thanks for including a couple of my books in your list. A couple other books I have written are based on Fedora. I wasn't sure if you wanted to include books that don't have Fedora in the title. Fedora was the primary distro used in the Linux Troubleshooting Bible. Also, for Linux Toys II, which just came out, most of the projects were built on FC4 (we included RPMs packaged for Fedora with the book). Thanks. -- Chris Negus (http://www.linuxtoys.net) From jpmahowald at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 05:35:28 2005 From: jpmahowald at gmail.com (John Mahowald) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 23:35:28 -0600 Subject: tshirts In-Reply-To: <556f970a0511211046q14b2688cv9f224cf74fbe947f@mail.gmail.com> References: <200511141553.jAEFrQ0p013999@mx3.redhat.com> <7f617d270511201705t59129377p13bf9028a67daa1e@mail.gmail.com> <556f970a0511211046q14b2688cv9f224cf74fbe947f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3ea997540511282135m46bebe59r3879f325a16ea006@mail.gmail.com> On 11/21/05, Jeremy Hogan wrote: > He must mean this: > http://www.cafepress.com/buy/fedora/-/pv_design_details/pg_1/id_6252266/opt_/fpt_/c_/hlv_t > > Which he indicates is from fedoraforum.org, but I can't find it mentioned > there anywhere. > > --jeremy > I refered him here. Confusingly, although that is similar to the FedoraForum.org logo, that's not the store I set up and mentioned on FedoraForum.org, mine's http://www.cafepress.com/fedoraforum However, I have not mainained it in a while and sell at cost. I would be willing to work with someone on a different arrangement for FedoraForum.org. From jpmahowald at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 05:53:39 2005 From: jpmahowald at gmail.com (John Mahowald) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 23:53:39 -0600 Subject: Boston FUDCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <604aa7910511211248m57a84399u2cea61529e418231@mail.gmail.com> References: <20051120022110.GA29421@jadzia.bu.edu> <7f617d270511201648l21f4402cu5a23a603ec06b708@mail.gmail.com> <20051121123422.GA9527@jadzia.bu.edu> <556f970a0511211157l4a0e3b0eu2751425a3844cd03@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910511211248m57a84399u2cea61529e418231@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3ea997540511282153j2d3b72e5k44ef835447db4b35@mail.gmail.com> On 11/21/05, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On 11/21/05, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > > > We actually did pretty good video at the first FUDCon. Good tip -- maybe > > worth a repeat performance. > > Is there going to be a pydance dance-off this year? > > -jef"will dance for food or a t-shirt"spaleta > Good exercise between talks. I would watch video of this, can't make it. It would have to be on a Fedora system, of course. Stepmania's good too. http://www.stepmania.com/ From jkeating at j2solutions.net Tue Nov 29 06:29:24 2005 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:29:24 -0800 Subject: CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing In-Reply-To: <1133232292.16814.120.camel@einstein> References: <1133232292.16814.120.camel@einstein> Message-ID: <1133245764.2833.50.camel@yoda.loki.me> On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 20:44 -0600, Chris Negus wrote: > Thanks for including a couple of my books in your list. A couple other > books I have written are based on Fedora. I wasn't sure if you wanted to > include books that don't have Fedora in the title. > > Fedora was the primary distro used in the Linux Troubleshooting Bible. > Also, for Linux Toys II, which just came out, most of the projects were > built on FC4 (we included RPMs packaged for Fedora with the book). Hi Chris. Check out http://www.redhat.com/magazine/013nov05/features/bookreview/ You'll see that we (and by we I mean mostly you) get a very favorable review. Paul, thanks for the writeup! -- Jesse Keating RHCE (geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating From Frederic.Hornain at GB.BE Tue Nov 29 10:41:07 2005 From: Frederic.Hornain at GB.BE (Hornain Frederic) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:41:07 +0100 Subject: CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketingCategoryMarketing Message-ID: Dear Chris, dear *, Indeed I was not aware of what has been wrotten by Paul W. at the following URL : http://www.redhat.com/magazine/013nov05/features/bookreview/ I have just objectively listed all Fedora books I knew. Even if I know I have to reorder it in alphabetical order. In addition, in reading the Fedora books reviews of Paul W. I noticed I missed one or two. However, I do not know for the moment if I can include General Linux books. I am going to ask the question and keep you in touch Chris. Finally and FYI, I do not think that I can permit myself to rated it. So maybe, I could contact Paul W. in order to know if he can help me to do it Does someone know his email address ? BR Fred Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list -----Original Message----- From: fedora-marketing-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-marketing-list-bounces at redhat.com]On Behalf Of Jesse Keating Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 7:29 AM To: fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com Subject: RE: CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketingCategoryMarketing On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 20:44 -0600, Chris Negus wrote: > Thanks for including a couple of my books in your list. A couple other > books I have written are based on Fedora. I wasn't sure if you wanted to > include books that don't have Fedora in the title. > > Fedora was the primary distro used in the Linux Troubleshooting Bible. > Also, for Linux Toys II, which just came out, most of the projects were > built on FC4 (we included RPMs packaged for Fedora with the book). Hi Chris. Check out http://www.redhat.com/magazine/013nov05/features/bookreview/ You'll see that we (and by we I mean mostly you) get a very favorable review. Paul, thanks for the writeup! -- Jesse Keating RHCE (geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list From gdk at redhat.com Tue Nov 29 15:06:26 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:06:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Selling systems with Fedora preloaded. In-Reply-To: <20051129015926.GA11209@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <438A12EB.5030501@prodigy.net.mx> <20051127201636.GA31168@jadzia.bu.edu> <438A1B1B.4040002@prodigy.net.mx> <438A9575.4070004@redhat.com> <438AA8C4.3060308@prodigy.net.mx> <1133193962.2833.29.camel@yoda.loki.me> <438BA17C.90800@prodigy.net.mx> <438BA504.3030806@prodigy.net.mx> <20051129015926.GA11209@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: Yeah. Clarifying the position of Fedora Extras is a clear goal. I'd like to be able to say: Any distribution of FC + any strict subset of Extras == official Fedora Any distribution of FC + other stuff (maybe + signed agreement, depending) == based on Fedora --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 07:47:00PM -0500, Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > > Yes, this kinda brakes the "keep it simple" objective... In any case, > > from what I gather even delivering Fedora Extras packages can be > > considered non standard. > > If that's the case now, that *must* be changed in the clarified/additional > rules being worked on. > > -- > Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org > Boston University Linux ------> > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From stickster at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 15:47:50 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:47:50 -0500 Subject: CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketing CategoryMarketingCategoryMarketing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1133279270.7575.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-11-29 at 11:41 +0100, Hornain Frederic wrote: > Dear Chris, dear *, > > Indeed I was not aware of what has been wrotten by Paul W. at the > following URL : > http://www.redhat.com/magazine/013nov05/features/bookreview/ > > I have just objectively listed all Fedora books I knew. > Even if I know I have to reorder it in alphabetical order. > > In addition, in reading the Fedora books reviews of Paul W. I noticed > I missed one or two. However, I do not know for the moment if I can > include General Linux books. I am going to ask the question and keep > you in touch Chris. > > Finally and FYI, I do not think that I can permit myself to rated it. > So maybe, I could contact Paul W. in order to know if he can help me > to do it > Does someone know his email address ? For contact information, see mail headers above or: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rodrigopadula at sagraluzzatto.com.br Tue Nov 29 17:15:26 2005 From: rodrigopadula at sagraluzzatto.com.br (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:15:26 -0200 Subject: Brazilian LiveCD Message-ID: <438C8CAE.3070607@sagraluzzatto.com.br> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Fedora Core 4 LiveCD Created by SERPRO ( Company of Technology - Brazilian Government ) Download: http://www.serpro.gov.br/arquivosdownload/Fedora4-LiveCD.iso - -- +================================================+ RODRIGO PADULA DE OLIVEIRA (o- BACHAREL EM SISTEMAS DE INFORMA??O //\ FACULDADE METODISTA GRANBERY - FMG V_/_ PostgreSQL - PHP - Java - Fedora +================================================+ Embaixador do Fedora no Brasil Membro Fundador do Gunix Linux http://www.gunix.com.br -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDjIyu8arYxsJpZ0URAhUTAKDFhbO9LLKma5NBb8fz+O5zcrWeTACfSAwO ZPGWpjqNZhkSBGM5HoZKl1U= =QNzt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From chitlesh at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 23:52:46 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:52:46 +0000 Subject: Brazilian LiveCD In-Reply-To: <438C8CAE.3070607@sagraluzzatto.com.br> References: <438C8CAE.3070607@sagraluzzatto.com.br> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511291552i2871015i4105c66883373eb@mail.gmail.com> > Fedora Core 4 LiveCD > > Created by SERPRO ( Company of Technology - Brazilian Government ) > > Download: > http://www.serpro.gov.br/arquivosdownload/Fedora4-LiveCD.iso > Hai Rodrigo, good job. I have just downloaded and burned it. There are things you need to specify, 1. by default its in spanish i guess 2. secondly it is with kde I wanted to change the language to EN and finally logout and login (just like with knoppix) but finally ended with a login screen asking a username and a password. Its 00:48 now. Im going to sleep. I will look at it tomorrow. last thing. I would be good if its tweaked to fit fedora core. by tweaking i mean, removing the linux-live text. plus the very last thing. It detected my hda1 as wrong fs. good job +1 you can include it here http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/LiveCD or here http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DerivedDistributions/LiveCDs depending whether it is derived or not. one word (or a touch for perfection) for the liveCD wiki pages, I woould be nice if kde or gnome is stated next to the live distro. Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Nov 30 00:05:08 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:05:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Brazilian LiveCD In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0511291552i2871015i4105c66883373eb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051130000508.24946.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > I have just downloaded and burned it. > There are things you need to specify, > 1. by default its in spanish i guess Portuguese I guess. ;-> [ Please tell me you're not a fellow [US] American. ;-] -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From chitlesh at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 00:09:12 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 00:09:12 +0000 Subject: Brazilian LiveCD In-Reply-To: <20051130000508.24946.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <13dbfe4f0511291552i2871015i4105c66883373eb@mail.gmail.com> <20051130000508.24946.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511291609q6509b1fembebff5a8e05df751@mail.gmail.com> > Portuguese I guess. ;-> > [ Please tell me you're not a fellow [US] American. ;-] > nop. ! im just jumping around in france, germany and switzerland for the moment. :) but im not an european :) -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Nov 30 00:11:35 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:11:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Brazilian LiveCD In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0511291609q6509b1fembebff5a8e05df751@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051130001135.28002.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > nop. ! > im just jumping around in france, germany and switzerland > for the moment. :) but im not an european :) Oh don't worry, all us [US] Americans now differentiate between Europeans -- Old Europe and New Europe. @-ppp -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From rodrigomenezes12 at yahoo.com.br Wed Nov 30 11:02:53 2005 From: rodrigomenezes12 at yahoo.com.br (Rodrigo Menezes) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:02:53 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Brazilian LiveCD In-Reply-To: <20051130001135.28002.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20051130110253.95704.qmail@web33812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In Brazil we talk Portuguese (pt_br). This Live-CD is made up by a goverment entity. I'll pass this information for them. Thank you, Rodrigo Menezes --- "Bryan J. Smith" escreveu: > Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > nop. ! > > im just jumping around in france, germany and > switzerland > > for the moment. :) but im not an european :) > > > Oh don't worry, all us [US] Americans now > differentiate > between Europeans -- Old Europe and New Europe. > @-ppp > > > > -- > Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail > mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org | (please excuse any > http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > _______________________________________________________ Yahoo! doce lar. Fa?a do Yahoo! sua homepage. http://br.yahoo.com/homepageset.html