From mspevack at redhat.com Mon May 1 18:08:58 2006 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 14:08:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The Increasing Importance of Community Message-ID: A reasonably interesting read -- a bit fanboyish toward Ubuntu in places, but here is one part that jumped out at me regarding Fedora: "It is evident that with a strong community behind these distributions, they can indeed become better in terms of engineering and adoption. Fedora is a classic example of this - as it has become more and more community driven, the quality has grown further and further. It is now a very impressive distribution and one that has a comprehensive backbone of developers, documentation writers, translators and users." http://oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/9330 http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/01/110203 Continuing to build a strong community around Fedora is one of the most important things that we can do. We've made good progress in the last few months. Gotta keep the momentum going. -- Max Spevack + http://people.redhat.com/mspevack/ + gpg key -- http://people.redhat.com/mspevack/mspevack.asc + fingerprint -- CD52 5E72 369B B00D 9E9A 773E 2FDB CB46 5A17 CF21 From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon May 1 23:24:58 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 01:24:58 +0200 Subject: The Increasing Importance of Community In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0605011624y28f40a23re15e90bbda21618d@mail.gmail.com> On 5/1/06, Max Spevack wrote: > Continuing to build a strong community around Fedora is one of the most > important things that we can do. We've made good progress in the last few > months. Gotta keep the momentum going. Hello, This is the prime objective of our new vFUDCon (virtual FUDCon) http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/vFUDCon Lately the French Ambassadors and I had a successful presentation on online (irc) on how the French Community can participate being non-english native. We already have had some nice feedback and new contributors making surface (from that presentation). There is enough information about how to create one's own vFUDCon in his/her native language here : http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/vFUDCon If not, Ill be glad to answer further questions on creating own's vFUDCon. Nevertheless, I feel Fedora's success with Community contribution lies on the moto "everthing should be centralized on fedoraproject.org no matter what the native language is" Regards, Chitlesh Goorah -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue May 2 12:20:59 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 17:50:59 +0530 Subject: The Increasing Importance of Community In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1146572459.3802.113.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Mon, 2006-05-01 at 14:08 -0400, Max Spevack wrote: > A reasonably interesting read -- a bit fanboyish toward Ubuntu in places, > but here is one part that jumped out at me regarding Fedora: > > "It is evident that with a strong community behind these distributions, > they can indeed become better in terms of engineering and adoption. Fedora > is a classic example of this - as it has become more and more community > driven, the quality has grown further and further. It is now a very > impressive distribution and one that has a comprehensive backbone of > developers, documentation writers, translators and users." > > http://oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/9330 > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/01/110203 > > Continuing to build a strong community around Fedora is one of the most > important things that we can do. We've made good progress in the last few > months. Gotta keep the momentum going. > A related article with some interesting references to Fedora http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20060501#interview Rahul From karlie_robinson at webpath.net Tue May 2 19:25:12 2006 From: karlie_robinson at webpath.net (Karlie Robinson) Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 15:25:12 -0400 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <369bce3b0605020948q169fb7a4jd84a94761e40b3bc@mail.gmail.com> <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeremy.hogan at gmail.com Tue May 2 19:38:38 2006 From: jeremy.hogan at gmail.com (Jeremy Hogan) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 15:38:38 -0400 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <369bce3b0605020948q169fb7a4jd84a94761e40b3bc@mail.gmail.com> <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> Message-ID: <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> On 5/2/06, Karlie Robinson wrote: > > Both Thomas and Patrick have suggested I make my case for Sponsored Media > to the Ambassadors. I'm also including the Marketing group, so please > excuse any multiple emails. > > The background is that I'm at a loss as to why I can't get anyone to > sponsor media to fill the Free Media requests. I had even gone so far as to > pay for adverts on the Yahoo and Google ad networks. > My guess, and it's only a guess, is that if folks are going to give a litte extra, it will be to Ubuntu (who also gives away media) or another project that doesn't have someone as big as RH behind it. We know Fedora needs it's own fuel, but the rest of the world still sees it as being funded by, and directed by, and for the greatest benefit to Red Hat. Which is true. And Red Hat also doesn't need the money. Secondly, there are organizations that flat out give media away. I don't think it's a matter of folks not getting off their wallet, since 6-8 years ago their were more shrinkwrapped boxes of RH on admin's shelves than open media cases in the lab. They were literally buying the boxed set soley as a means of giving somethig back. For example, I like PBS, when I donate $100 is it for the hat and mug? Or because I want to help. Giving me the option of the "give $100 and you get a hat" is just a catalyst to my giving. It's possible that if you allowed folks to do this for any distribution, that they'd pick up more broadly on it. It's also possible that if RH put RH muscle behind it (e.g. in Red Hat Magazine) more eyes would see it (or if RH matched a certain level of donation, etc.). Or getting someone in the media or blogosphere to write about it. You might try a free Web PR release, along with submitting product announcements to niche sites like NewsForge and LinuxQuestions.org. It's not a bad idea, it just needs to settle into the story we tell as a core way of giving back, IMHO. --jeremy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sgk284 at gmail.com Tue May 2 20:24:04 2006 From: sgk284 at gmail.com (Stephen Krenzel) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 16:24:04 -0400 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <369bce3b0605020948q169fb7a4jd84a94761e40b3bc@mail.gmail.com> <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1fa01fe80605021324s1e804e48gbe3d31a6a3fc5245@mail.gmail.com> I agree, but no one is going to give any money as long as Fedora is perceived to be backed by Red Hat. I have to admit, Fedora *is* Red Hat's baby, just as Ubuntu is Shuttleworth's baby, and OpenSuse is Novell's baby. I don't think that a lot of people would donate to any of these projects, except for a few exceptions. If OpenSuse started asking for money, people would laugh, a similar outcome would result with Fedora as well. I'm not sure what kind of resources it would take, but getting Red Hat or some other organization to donate a chunk of cash to Fedora so that we could give away free CDs ( similar to Ubuntu ) is the only way I really see any of these media plans working. Ubuntu set the "media distribution" bar high, and we aren't anywhere near it right now. I don't think it is reasonable, nor wise, to ask someone to sit on a waiting list, especially when they can just go to a different distribution's site and be guaranteed a cd in a relatively short period of time. We simply are not being competitive enough in this aspect of marketing Fedora. This is not to put down the efforts that Fedora has made thus far, but until someone finds a way to allow free CDs (or a dvd) to be distributed for free upon request, our efforts will be compared to Ubuntu's and claimed to be second rate at best. -Steve On 5/2/06, Jeremy Hogan wrote: > > > > On 5/2/06, Karlie Robinson wrote: > > > > Both Thomas and Patrick have suggested I make my case for Sponsored > > Media to the Ambassadors. I'm also including the Marketing group, so please > > excuse any multiple emails. > > > > The background is that I'm at a loss as to why I can't get anyone to > > sponsor media to fill the Free Media requests. I had even gone so far as to > > pay for adverts on the Yahoo and Google ad networks. > > > > My guess, and it's only a guess, is that if folks are going to give a > litte extra, it will be to Ubuntu (who also gives away media) or another > project that doesn't have someone as big as RH behind it. We know Fedora > needs it's own fuel, but the rest of the world still sees it as being funded > by, and directed by, and for the greatest benefit to Red Hat. Which is true. > And Red Hat also doesn't need the money. Secondly, there are organizations > that flat out give media away. I don't think it's a matter of folks not > getting off their wallet, since 6-8 years ago their were more shrinkwrapped > boxes of RH on admin's shelves than open media cases in the lab. They were > literally buying the boxed set soley as a means of giving somethig back. > > For example, I like PBS, when I donate $100 is it for the hat and mug? Or > because I want to help. Giving me the option of the "give $100 and you get a > hat" is just a catalyst to my giving. > > It's possible that if you allowed folks to do this for any distribution, > that they'd pick up more broadly on it. > > It's also possible that if RH put RH muscle behind it (e.g. in Red Hat > Magazine) more eyes would see it (or if RH matched a certain level of > donation, etc.). Or getting someone in the media or blogosphere to write > about it. You might try a free Web PR release, along with submitting product > announcements to niche sites like NewsForge and LinuxQuestions.org. > > It's not a bad idea, it just needs to settle into the story we tell as a > core way of giving back, IMHO. > > --jeremy > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael at knox.net.nz Tue May 2 20:31:22 2006 From: michael at knox.net.nz (Michael J. Knox) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 08:31:22 +1200 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <1fa01fe80605021324s1e804e48gbe3d31a6a3fc5245@mail.gmail.com> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <369bce3b0605020948q169fb7a4jd84a94761e40b3bc@mail.gmail.com> <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> <1fa01fe80605021324s1e804e48gbe3d31a6a3fc5245@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4457C19A.9050600@knox.net.nz> Stephen Krenzel wrote: > I agree, but no one is going to give any money as long as Fedora is > perceived to be backed by Red Hat. I have to admit, Fedora *is* Red > Hat's baby, just as Ubuntu is Shuttleworth's baby, and OpenSuse is > Novell's baby. I don't think that a lot of people would donate to any of > these projects, except for a few exceptions. If OpenSuse started asking > for money, people would laugh, a similar outcome would result with > Fedora as well. I'm not sure what kind of resources it would take, but > getting Red Hat or some other organization to donate a chunk of cash to > Fedora so that we could give away free CDs ( similar to Ubuntu ) is the > only way I really see any of these media plans working. Ubuntu set the > "media distribution" bar high, and we aren't anywhere near it right now. > I don't think it is reasonable, nor wise, to ask someone to sit on a > waiting list, especially when they can just go to a different > distribution's site and be guaranteed a cd in a relatively short period > of time. We simply are not being competitive enough in this aspect of > marketing Fedora. This is not to put down the efforts that Fedora has > made thus far, but until someone finds a way to allow free CDs (or a > dvd) to be distributed for free upon request, our efforts will be > compared to Ubuntu's and claimed to be second rate at best. > -Steve [snipped] Might a naive question, but why doesn't RedHat offer some backing to this effort then? Michael From gdk at redhat.com Tue May 2 21:13:45 2006 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 17:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <1fa01fe80605021324s1e804e48gbe3d31a6a3fc5245@mail.gmail.com> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <369bce3b0605020948q169fb7a4jd84a94761e40b3bc@mail.gmail.com> <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> <1fa01fe80605021324s1e804e48gbe3d31a6a3fc5245@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Good discussion. My $0.02 inline. On Tue, 2 May 2006, Stephen Krenzel wrote: > I agree, but no one is going to give any money as long as Fedora is > perceived to be backed by Red Hat. Nope. No one's going to "give money to Fedora." Especially not if we put it that way. The question real question looks more like this: "you've come to this site to buy a DVD for $10. Will you pay another $10 to send a DVD to someone else? Since you've already got your credit card out, and all?" And that's a proposition that I think people *will* warm up to. Maybe we can sweeten the pot by adding "...and by the way, if you do, you also get this kick-ass bumper sticker that says 'I gave the gift of Fedora'." > I have to admit, Fedora *is* Red Hat's baby, just as Ubuntu is > Shuttleworth's baby, and OpenSuse is Novell's baby. I don't think that a > lot of people would donate to any of these projects, except for a few > exceptions. I have a constant barrage of people asking "how can I help Fedora? I don't code, I don't write docs, and I don't have the time to file bugs, but I love what you guys do. Can I help somehow?" I want the answer to be "hell, yes. You can give the gift of Fedora, and it's dead simple. Cost you, like, ten bucks, and you also get a wicked cool bumper sticker." > If OpenSuse started asking for money, people would laugh, a similar > outcome would result with Fedora as well. Depends on how you ask. > I'm not sure what kind of resources it would take, but getting Red Hat > or some other organization to donate a chunk of cash to Fedora so that > we could give away free CDs ( similar to Ubuntu ) is the only way I > really see any of these media plans working. Ubuntu set the "media > distribution" bar high, and we aren't anywhere near it right now. I do know what kind of resources it would take -- and it takes plenty. We're not equipped to do it properly. Simple as that. Red Hat, as a small publicly traded company, has responsibilities for the money we spend, in a way that a billionaire hobbyist does not. Moreover, the Ubuntu plan presumes that you're going to get *lots* of DVDs and distribute them all yourself. Great for LUGs and such... but for novices who are looking to get their feet wet, I don't think this model scales. I think that Sponsored Media, done properly, could. Especially in developing countries. > I don't think it is reasonable, nor wise, to ask someone to sit on a > waiting list, especially when they can just go to a different > distribution's site and be guaranteed a cd in a relatively short period > of time. If Distributed Media is successful enough, we should be able to keep a fairly short queue. If we're *very* successful, we should be able to drive a neagtive queue. And by the way, the first time I requested Ubuntu DVDs, it took them four months to arrive. Your mileage may vary. > We simply are not being competitive enough in this aspect of marketing > Fedora. This is not to put down the efforts that Fedora has made thus > far, but until someone finds a way to allow free CDs (or a dvd) to be > distributed for free upon request, our efforts will be compared to > Ubuntu's and claimed to be second rate at best. Then we'll have to live with that -- because all those CDs and DVDs cost money. At Red Hat, we can either ship 50,000 DVDs all over the world, or we can pay a world-class open source engineer. Our success to date is a direct result of our ability to answer that question correctly. --g ------------------------------------------------------------- Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors ------------------------------------------------------------- From lxmaier at gmail.com Wed May 3 00:52:23 2006 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 20:52:23 -0400 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <369bce3b0605020948q169fb7a4jd84a94761e40b3bc@mail.gmail.com> <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270605021752s54305bdelecfb1d379a068bd8@mail.gmail.com> I volunteer to write such an article--it is long overdue for me to write something about the Ambassadors anyway. Look for it in the June issue of the Magazine though, since we have definitely missed the submission deadline for May (it's May 1 FYI). On 5/2/06, Jeremy Hogan wrote: > It's also possible that if RH put RH muscle behind it (e.g. in Red Hat Magazine) more eyes would see it From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed May 3 01:10:52 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 06:40:52 +0530 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <4457C19A.9050600@knox.net.nz> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <369bce3b0605020948q169fb7a4jd84a94761e40b3bc@mail.gmail.com> <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> <1fa01fe80605021324s1e804e48gbe3d31a6a3fc5245@mail.gmail.com> <4457C19A.9050600@knox.net.nz> Message-ID: <1146618652.3802.132.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 08:31 +1200, Michael J. Knox wrote: > Stephen Krenzel wrote: > > I agree, but no one is going to give any money as long as Fedora is > > perceived to be backed by Red Hat. I have to admit, Fedora *is* Red > > Hat's baby, just as Ubuntu is Shuttleworth's baby, and OpenSuse is > > Novell's baby. I don't think that a lot of people would donate to any of > > these projects, except for a few exceptions. If OpenSuse started asking > > for money, people would laugh, a similar outcome would result with > > Fedora as well. I'm not sure what kind of resources it would take, but > > getting Red Hat or some other organization to donate a chunk of cash to > > Fedora so that we could give away free CDs ( similar to Ubuntu ) is the > > only way I really see any of these media plans working. Ubuntu set the > > "media distribution" bar high, and we aren't anywhere near it right now. > > I don't think it is reasonable, nor wise, to ask someone to sit on a > > waiting list, especially when they can just go to a different > > distribution's site and be guaranteed a cd in a relatively short period > > of time. We simply are not being competitive enough in this aspect of > > marketing Fedora. This is not to put down the efforts that Fedora has > > made thus far, but until someone finds a way to allow free CDs (or a > > dvd) to be distributed for free upon request, our efforts will be > > compared to Ubuntu's and claimed to be second rate at best. > > -Steve > > [snipped] > > Might a naive question, but why doesn't RedHat offer some backing to > this effort then? > > Michael Shipping media internationally is very cost ineffective. The funds are better put into improving important Free software projects. Rahul From michael at knox.net.nz Wed May 3 01:15:55 2006 From: michael at knox.net.nz (Michael J Knox) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 13:15:55 +1200 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <1146618652.3802.132.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <369bce3b0605020948q169fb7a4jd84a94761e40b3bc@mail.gmail.com> <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> <1fa01fe80605021324s1e804e48gbe3d31a6a3fc5245@mail.gmail.com> <4457C19A.9050600@knox.net.nz> <1146618652.3802.132.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4458044B.9020705@knox.net.nz> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 08:31 +1200, Michael J. Knox wrote: >> Stephen Krenzel wrote: >>> I agree, but no one is going to give any money as long as Fedora is >>> perceived to be backed by Red Hat. I have to admit, Fedora *is* Red >>> Hat's baby, just as Ubuntu is Shuttleworth's baby, and OpenSuse is >>> Novell's baby. I don't think that a lot of people would donate to any of >>> these projects, except for a few exceptions. If OpenSuse started asking >>> for money, people would laugh, a similar outcome would result with >>> Fedora as well. I'm not sure what kind of resources it would take, but >>> getting Red Hat or some other organization to donate a chunk of cash to >>> Fedora so that we could give away free CDs ( similar to Ubuntu ) is the >>> only way I really see any of these media plans working. Ubuntu set the >>> "media distribution" bar high, and we aren't anywhere near it right now. >>> I don't think it is reasonable, nor wise, to ask someone to sit on a >>> waiting list, especially when they can just go to a different >>> distribution's site and be guaranteed a cd in a relatively short period >>> of time. We simply are not being competitive enough in this aspect of >>> marketing Fedora. This is not to put down the efforts that Fedora has >>> made thus far, but until someone finds a way to allow free CDs (or a >>> dvd) to be distributed for free upon request, our efforts will be >>> compared to Ubuntu's and claimed to be second rate at best. >>> -Steve >> [snipped] >> >> Might a naive question, but why doesn't RedHat offer some backing to >> this effort then? >> >> Michael > > Shipping media internationally is very cost ineffective. The funds are > better put into improving important Free software projects. > I don't doubt that for a second. Nor was I suggesting RH foot the entire bill. Myself, I am more than happy suppling New Zealand any media requests. However, Could RH not assist, even for local (as in US) media requests? Then that can relieve the burden of US request and allow the continual search for other sponsors to assist with other global regions? Michael From jeremy.hogan at gmail.com Wed May 3 01:17:41 2006 From: jeremy.hogan at gmail.com (Jeremy Hogan) Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 21:17:41 -0400 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <369bce3b0605020948q169fb7a4jd84a94761e40b3bc@mail.gmail.com> <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> <1fa01fe80605021324s1e804e48gbe3d31a6a3fc5245@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <556f970a0605021817h344d71fnc961ebff9fd78810@mail.gmail.com> On 5/2/06, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > > The question real question looks more like this: "you've come to this site > to buy a DVD for $10. Will you pay another $10 to send a DVD to someone > else? Since you've already got your credit card out, and all?" What about making the price $20? Why is my DVD of free software $20? Because you aren't buying a DVD, you're now a patron of the revolution: -you get a DVD -you get a sticker -you get the warm fuzzy that someone else gets one now -your pledges help NPR bring you great shows that... well not that one, but it's the same idea --jeremy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed May 3 01:31:44 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 07:01:44 +0530 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <4458044B.9020705@knox.net.nz> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <369bce3b0605020948q169fb7a4jd84a94761e40b3bc@mail.gmail.com> <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> <1fa01fe80605021324s1e804e48gbe3d31a6a3fc5245@mail.gmail.com> <4457C19A.9050600@knox.net.nz> <1146618652.3802.132.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <4458044B.9020705@knox.net.nz> Message-ID: <1146619904.3802.143.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Hi, On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 13:15 +1200, Michael J Knox wrote: > I don't doubt that for a second. Nor was I suggesting RH foot the entire > bill. > > Myself, I am more than happy suppling New Zealand any media requests. > > However, Could RH not assist, even for local (as in US) media requests? > Then that can relieve the burden of US request and allow the continual > search for other sponsors to assist with other global regions? > > Michael I still think you are underestimating costs. Red Hat already spends a lot of amount shipping media to various places through the ambassadors project. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/SteeringCommittee/Budget If we continue doing this we would run out of money very soon and we couldnt possibly justify that as a good expenditure next time around. Look at this way. Roughly 1.5 million dollars for bandwidth alone for a single year. Add to that engineering, infrastructure and marketing costs for a zero direct revenue project. In US, its relatively easy to buy media or download the ISO images compared to various places where its much more harder to do either. Granted, all these would be nice but the priorities are going to be spending the funds on engineering rather than this. Distributing the costs would make it much more effective. Local event sponsors, free media, sponsored media and maybe even regional Red Hat offices are better way to channel resources. How can I donate is a FAQ. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Contribute Rahul From michael at knox.net.nz Wed May 3 02:20:49 2006 From: michael at knox.net.nz (Michael J. Knox) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 14:20:49 +1200 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <1146619904.3802.143.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <369bce3b0605020948q169fb7a4jd84a94761e40b3bc@mail.gmail.com> <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> <1fa01fe80605021324s1e804e48gbe3d31a6a3fc5245@mail.gmail.com> <4457C19A.9050600@knox.net.nz> <1146618652.3802.132.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <4458044B.9020705@knox.net.nz> <1146619904.3802.143.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Message-ID: <44581381.7080406@knox.net.nz> Rahul Sundaram wrote: [snip] > > I still think you are underestimating costs. Red Hat already spends a > lot of amount shipping media to various places through the ambassadors > project. Well, none of that has reached NZ ;) > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/SteeringCommittee/Budget > > If we continue doing this we would run out of money very soon and we > couldnt possibly justify that as a good expenditure next time around. > Look at this way. Roughly 1.5 million dollars for bandwidth alone for a > single year. Add to that engineering, infrastructure and marketing costs > for a zero direct revenue project. I didn't suggest RH foot the entire bill... Its escapes me how RH can be FC/FE sponsor and not assist in funding _some_ of the free media requests. > In US, its relatively easy to buy media or download the ISO images > compared to various places where its much more harder to do either. > Granted, all these would be nice but the priorities are going to be > spending the funds on engineering rather than this. NZ being one of those places where bandwidth costs (3.5Mb and 10Gb cap @ $60 NSD per month) :-) > Distributing the costs would make it much more effective. Local event > sponsors, free media, sponsored media and maybe even regional Red Hat > offices are better way to channel resources. That's my point, which you seem to have missed... My suggestion was (or question actually) is why doesn't RH help sponsor free media? It's not a suggestion of footing the entire bill. You can't honestly think 3rd party companies will back free media if RH (fedora's parent) does not? Michael From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed May 3 02:29:20 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 07:59:20 +0530 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <44581381.7080406@knox.net.nz> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <369bce3b0605020948q169fb7a4jd84a94761e40b3bc@mail.gmail.com> <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> <1fa01fe80605021324s1e804e48gbe3d31a6a3fc5245@mail.gmail.com> <4457C19A.9050600@knox.net.nz> <1146618652.3802.132.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <4458044B.9020705@knox.net.nz> <1146619904.3802.143.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581381.7080406@knox.net.nz> Message-ID: <1146623360.3802.162.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 14:20 +1200, Michael J. Knox wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > [snip] > > > > I still think you are underestimating costs. Red Hat already spends a > > lot of amount shipping media to various places through the ambassadors > > project. > > Well, none of that has reached NZ ;) What do you mean by that? Which event? > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/SteeringCommittee/Budget > > > > If we continue doing this we would run out of money very soon and we > > couldnt possibly justify that as a good expenditure next time around. > > Look at this way. Roughly 1.5 million dollars for bandwidth alone for a > > single year. Add to that engineering, infrastructure and marketing costs > > for a zero direct revenue project. > > I didn't suggest RH foot the entire bill... Its escapes me how RH can be > FC/FE sponsor and not assist in funding _some_ of the free media requests. RH *already* foots the bill. DVD distribution makes up for a large amount of the current event related expenditures in the above budget. The logic that you spend so much on this already that you should be spending more on related things even though it is known to be ineffective and unjustifiable isnt going to go a long way. > > > In US, its relatively easy to buy media or download the ISO images > > compared to various places where its much more harder to do either. > > Granted, all these would be nice but the priorities are going to be > > spending the funds on engineering rather than this. > > NZ being one of those places where bandwidth costs (3.5Mb and 10Gb cap @ > $60 NSD per month) How about buying media? Are there magazines that distribute CD/DVD's? Rahul From michael at knox.net.nz Wed May 3 02:44:55 2006 From: michael at knox.net.nz (Michael J. Knox) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 14:44:55 +1200 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <1146623360.3802.162.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <369bce3b0605020948q169fb7a4jd84a94761e40b3bc@mail.gmail.com> <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> <1fa01fe80605021324s1e804e48gbe3d31a6a3fc5245@mail.gmail.com> <4457C19A.9050600@knox.net.nz> <1146618652.3802.132.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <4458044B.9020705@knox.net.nz> <1146619904.3802.143.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581381.7080406@knox.net.nz> <1146623360.3802.162.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Message-ID: <44581927.40406@knox.net.nz> Rahul Sundaram wrote: [snip] > RH *already* foots the bill. DVD distribution makes up for a large > amount of the current event related expenditures in the above budget. > The logic that you spend so much on this already that you should be > spending more on related things even though it is known to be > ineffective and unjustifiable isnt going to go a long way. Is the DVD distribution feeding the free media project? >>> In US, its relatively easy to buy media or download the ISO images >>> compared to various places where its much more harder to do either. >>> Granted, all these would be nice but the priorities are going to be >>> spending the funds on engineering rather than this. >> NZ being one of those places where bandwidth costs (3.5Mb and 10Gb cap @ >> $60 NSD per month) > > How about buying media? Are there magazines that distribute CD/DVD's? New Zealand has 2 PC magazine's of its own. NetGuide and PC World. Both only supply CD's to its readers, not DVDs and they load them with all those really neat "make Windows run faster while deleting spyware" type apps. We get a handful of US and UK based Linux and PC mags, but for the PC mags, its again, targeting Windows. Michael From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed May 3 02:56:27 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 08:26:27 +0530 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <44581927.40406@knox.net.nz> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <369bce3b0605020948q169fb7a4jd84a94761e40b3bc@mail.gmail.com> <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> <1fa01fe80605021324s1e804e48gbe3d31a6a3fc5245@mail.gmail.com> <4457C19A.9050600@knox.net.nz> <1146618652.3802.132.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <4458044B.9020705@knox.net.nz> <1146619904.3802.143.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581381.7080406@knox.net.nz> <1146623360.3802.162.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581927.40406@knox.net.nz> Message-ID: <1146624988.3802.187.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 14:44 +1200, Michael J. Knox wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > [snip] > > RH *already* foots the bill. DVD distribution makes up for a large > > amount of the current event related expenditures in the above budget. > > The logic that you spend so much on this already that you should be > > spending more on related things even though it is known to be > > ineffective and unjustifiable isnt going to go a long way. > > Is the DVD distribution feeding the free media project? DVD distribution is feeding the events currently. There isnt value in it though. The budget is better spend on other things that Red Hat is strategically better placed to do rather than get into the media distribution model again. Thats Red Hat Linux all over. > > >>> In US, its relatively easy to buy media or download the ISO images > >>> compared to various places where its much more harder to do either. > >>> Granted, all these would be nice but the priorities are going to be > >>> spending the funds on engineering rather than this. > >> NZ being one of those places where bandwidth costs (3.5Mb and 10Gb cap @ > >> $60 NSD per month) > > > > How about buying media? Are there magazines that distribute CD/DVD's? > > New Zealand has 2 PC magazine's of its own. NetGuide and PC World. Both > only supply CD's to its readers, not DVDs and they load them with all > those really neat "make Windows run faster while deleting spyware" type > apps. > > We get a handful of US and UK based Linux and PC mags, but for the PC > mags, its again, targeting Windows. How about buying media? Rahul From michael at knox.net.nz Wed May 3 03:02:34 2006 From: michael at knox.net.nz (Michael J. Knox) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 15:02:34 +1200 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <1146624988.3802.187.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <369bce3b0605020948q169fb7a4jd84a94761e40b3bc@mail.gmail.com> <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> <1fa01fe80605021324s1e804e48gbe3d31a6a3fc5245@mail.gmail.com> <4457C19A.9050600@knox.net.nz> <1146618652.3802.132.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <4458044B.9020705@knox.net.nz> <1146619904.3802.143.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581381.7080406@knox.net.nz> <1146623360.3802.162.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581927.40406@knox.net.nz> <1146624988.3802.187.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Message-ID: <44581D4A.3060400@knox.net.nz> Rahul Sundaram wrote: [snip] >> Is the DVD distribution feeding the free media project? > > DVD distribution is feeding the events currently. There isnt value in it > though. The budget is better spend on other things that Red Hat is > strategically better placed to do rather than get into the media > distribution model again. Thats Red Hat Linux all over. So that's a no to RH helping free media? [snip] >> New Zealand has 2 PC magazine's of its own. NetGuide and PC World. Both >> only supply CD's to its readers, not DVDs and they load them with all >> those really neat "make Windows run faster while deleting spyware" type >> apps. >> >> We get a handful of US and UK based Linux and PC mags, but for the PC >> mags, its again, targeting Windows. > > How about buying media? > http://www.copyleft.co.nz/fedora.html ($35 NZD per DVD) and http://www.dse.co.nz - the only have FC3 AFAIK Michael From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed May 3 03:16:05 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 08:46:05 +0530 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <44581D4A.3060400@knox.net.nz> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <369bce3b0605020948q169fb7a4jd84a94761e40b3bc@mail.gmail.com> <200605021234.10691.nman64@n-man.com> <4457B218.8050507@webpath.net> <556f970a0605021238i34adbe74k336ba36bdb523c22@mail.gmail.com> <1fa01fe80605021324s1e804e48gbe3d31a6a3fc5245@mail.gmail.com> <4457C19A.9050600@knox.net.nz> <1146618652.3802.132.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <4458044B.9020705@knox.net.nz> <1146619904.3802.143.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581381.7080406@knox.net.nz> <1146623360.3802.162.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581927.40406@knox.net.nz> <1146624988.3802.187.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581D4A.3060400@knox.net.nz> Message-ID: <1146626165.3802.201.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 15:02 +1200, Michael J. Knox wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > [snip] > >> Is the DVD distribution feeding the free media project? > > > > DVD distribution is feeding the events currently. There isnt value in it > > though. The budget is better spend on other things that Red Hat is > > strategically better placed to do rather than get into the media > > distribution model again. Thats Red Hat Linux all over. > > So that's a no to RH helping free media? If you mean free media project specifically, I am trying to help it out through regional offices where possible rather than the US office distributing media from a central location. Again, the cost of distribution is much more producing stuff. I dont think its Red Hat involved in free media is a scalable model and I would want others to get involved in it more than RH. We are multiple ways to address the distribution problem effectively. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/ Downloads OEM Online vendors Local vendors Free media sponsored media OEM Books and magazines For any amount of finite budget, we are trying to spend it where it makes better sense. How many people think Red Hat should be spending the money on free media distribution? Let me see a show of hands. > > How about buying media? > > > > > http://www.copyleft.co.nz/fedora.html ($35 NZD per DVD) > > and > > http://www.dse.co.nz - the only have FC3 AFAIK I see others more updated here. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/OnlineVendors#head-31a80976287ed99b126dde068e701bbc0616d18f Rahul From sgk284 at gmail.com Wed May 3 04:11:32 2006 From: sgk284 at gmail.com (Stephen Krenzel) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 00:11:32 -0400 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <1146626165.3802.201.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <1146618652.3802.132.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <4458044B.9020705@knox.net.nz> <1146619904.3802.143.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581381.7080406@knox.net.nz> <1146623360.3802.162.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581927.40406@knox.net.nz> <1146624988.3802.187.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581D4A.3060400@knox.net.nz> <1146626165.3802.201.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1fa01fe80605022111l501760aer8ee9b2a98edf761f@mail.gmail.com> Just a quick thought, feel free to knock it down if you so desire. What about a "pass along" kind of setup. Where receivers of free media can opt in to pass the media along when they are done installing it. For example, I request a free media dvd and when signing up click "Yes, I'd like to pass it along". I get added to a queue of free media distributors. When my time comes up in the queue, I get a little e-mail saying "such and such has requested free media, please pass it along to Address here, etc...". After I confirm that I've passed it a long, I can be removed from the queue. With a little logic to try and keep the sending of media fairly local I think this could work out pretty well. Any thoughts? The full logistics behind it would still need to be worked out, but I think I outlined the premise good enough. The main thing I think this would help with is keeping costs for everyone low, and keeping a constant stream of free media distributors flowing. It'd also allow people to feel more involved with the community, as they've now become a link in a chain of possibly many people who will receive the media and who have already received it. My main concern would be quality control, but that is nothing that can't be overcome :) -Steve On 5/2/06, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 15:02 +1200, Michael J. Knox wrote: > > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > [snip] > > >> Is the DVD distribution feeding the free media project? > > > > > > DVD distribution is feeding the events currently. There isnt value in > it > > > though. The budget is better spend on other things that Red Hat is > > > strategically better placed to do rather than get into the media > > > distribution model again. Thats Red Hat Linux all over. > > > > So that's a no to RH helping free media? > > If you mean free media project specifically, I am trying to help it out > through regional offices where possible rather than the US office > distributing media from a central location. Again, the cost of > distribution is much more producing stuff. > > I dont think its Red Hat involved in free media is a scalable model and > I would want others to get involved in it more than RH. We are multiple > ways to address the distribution problem effectively. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/ > > Downloads > OEM > Online vendors > Local vendors > Free media > sponsored media > OEM > Books and magazines > > For any amount of finite budget, we are trying to spend it where it > makes better sense. How many people think Red Hat should be spending the > money on free media distribution? Let me see a show of hands. > > > > > How about buying media? > > > > > > > > > http://www.copyleft.co.nz/fedora.html ($35 NZD per DVD) > > > > and > > > > http://www.dse.co.nz - the only have FC3 AFAIK > > I see others more updated here. > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/OnlineVendors#head-31a80976287ed99b126dde068e701bbc0616d18f > > Rahul > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed May 3 04:39:43 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 10:09:43 +0530 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <1fa01fe80605022111l501760aer8ee9b2a98edf761f@mail.gmail.com> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <1146618652.3802.132.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <4458044B.9020705@knox.net.nz> <1146619904.3802.143.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581381.7080406@knox.net.nz> <1146623360.3802.162.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581927.40406@knox.net.nz> <1146624988.3802.187.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581D4A.3060400@knox.net.nz> <1146626165.3802.201.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <1fa01fe80605022111l501760aer8ee9b2a98edf761f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1146631183.3802.211.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 00:11 -0400, Stephen Krenzel wrote: > Just a quick thought, feel free to knock it down if you so desire. > What about a "pass along" kind of setup. Where receivers of free media > can opt in to pass the media along when they are done installing it. > For example, I request a free media dvd and when signing up click > "Yes, I'd like to pass it along". I get added to a queue of free media > distributors. When my time comes up in the queue, I get a little e- > mail saying "such and such has requested free media, please pass it > along to Address here, etc...". After I confirm that I've passed it a > long, I can be removed from the queue. With a little logic to try and > keep the sending of media fairly local I think this could work out > pretty well. Any thoughts? The full logistics behind it would still > need to be worked out, but I think I outlined the premise good enough. > The main thing I think this would help with is keeping costs for > everyone low, and keeping a constant stream of free media distributors > flowing. It'd also allow people to feel more involved with the > community, as they've now become a link in a chain of possibly many > people who will receive the media and who have already received it. My > main concern would be quality control, but that is nothing that can't > be overcome :) > -Steve Thats a good idea. We will have to look at it when we have a good tracker in place. The infrastructure team is looking at OTRS http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Schedule Rahul From gdk at redhat.com Wed May 3 16:43:41 2006 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 12:43:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <1fa01fe80605022111l501760aer8ee9b2a98edf761f@mail.gmail.com> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <1146618652.3802.132.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <4458044B.9020705@knox.net.nz> <1146619904.3802.143.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581381.7080406@knox.net.nz> <1146623360.3802.162.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581927.40406@knox.net.nz> <1146624988.3802.187.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581D4A.3060400@knox.net.nz> <1146626165.3802.201.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <1fa01fe80605022111l501760aer8ee9b2a98edf761f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 May 2006, Stephen Krenzel wrote: > Just a quick thought, feel free to knock it down if you so desire. What > about a "pass along" kind of setup. Where receivers of free media can opt in > to pass the media along when they are done installing it. For example, I > request a free media dvd and when signing up click "Yes, I'd like to pass it > along". I get added to a queue of free media distributors. When my time > comes up in the queue, I get a little e-mail saying "such and such has > requested free media, please pass it along to Address here, etc...". After I > confirm that I've passed it a long, I can be removed from the queue. With a > little logic to try and keep the sending of media fairly local I think this > could work out pretty well. Any thoughts? The full logistics behind it would > still need to be worked out, but I think I outlined the premise good enough. > The main thing I think this would help with is keeping costs for everyone > low, and keeping a constant stream of free media distributors flowing. It'd > also allow people to feel more involved with the community, as they've now > become a link in a chain of possibly many people who will receive the media > and who have already received it. My main concern would be quality control, > but that is nothing that can't be overcome :) > -Steve Interesting idea. Creative. :) I think that the workflow we're considering building could be retrofitted to make this happen. An intriguing idea. --g ------------------------------------------------------------- Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors ------------------------------------------------------------- From lxmaier at gmail.com Wed May 3 17:41:17 2006 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 13:41:17 -0400 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <1146619904.3802.143.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581381.7080406@knox.net.nz> <1146623360.3802.162.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581927.40406@knox.net.nz> <1146624988.3802.187.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581D4A.3060400@knox.net.nz> <1146626165.3802.201.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <1fa01fe80605022111l501760aer8ee9b2a98edf761f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270605031041rafb5f58tbc8d0b557ad4754d@mail.gmail.com> On 5/3/06, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > I think that the workflow we're considering building could be retrofitted > to make this happen. An intriguing idea. Want to own it/make it happen? I like it a lot! a From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed May 3 18:35:35 2006 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 14:35:35 -0400 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <1fa01fe80605022111l501760aer8ee9b2a98edf761f@mail.gmail.com> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <4458044B.9020705@knox.net.nz> <1146619904.3802.143.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581381.7080406@knox.net.nz> <1146623360.3802.162.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581927.40406@knox.net.nz> <1146624988.3802.187.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581D4A.3060400@knox.net.nz> <1146626165.3802.201.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <1fa01fe80605022111l501760aer8ee9b2a98edf761f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910605031135s3eb49c16saa05550dea5879c2@mail.gmail.com> On 5/3/06, Stephen Krenzel wrote: > Just a quick thought, feel free to knock it down if you so desire. What > about a "pass along" kind of setup. Where receivers of free media can opt in > to pass the media along when they are done installing it. The value of a working rescue environment on media that you can lay your hands on imeediately in times of severe system problems is invaluable. I would never ever recommend someone purposely giving away the only copy of the media in their possession which has the rescue environment. And while this sort of "sloppy seconds" distribution of a single piece of installation media may make sense in a closely associated community of people who know each other, Additionally I would definitely fear for the quality of passed-along media after a small finite number of pass-alongs. Anyone who uses netflix service knows exactly what I'm talking about. And I think you grossly underestimate how difficult it will be to deal with the quality issues... let alone deal with tracking how much of the media which falls off the map competely and isn't passed on. Without a central organization through which media returns and then gets sent back out from.. there is zero quality control or tracking of the media in circulation. I do not think its in fedora's best interest to encourage the re-distribution of media over and over again that does not make a serious effort at media defect tracking. Even if you can have a centralized system for tracking.. you still leave users in the lurk by encouraging them to give up the rescue environment available on the installation media. I care far more about making sure people have equitable access to recovery tools than i do about the sheer number of people who have fedora installed. The people who need free media are also going to be the people who are going to be in a huge panic if they have a system problem later and need the rescue environment to sort it out. -jef From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed May 3 18:41:19 2006 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 14:41:19 -0400 Subject: Turning off Paid Adverts for Sponsored Media In-Reply-To: <604aa7910605031135s3eb49c16saa05550dea5879c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <44577DBB.7000609@webpath.net> <1146619904.3802.143.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581381.7080406@knox.net.nz> <1146623360.3802.162.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581927.40406@knox.net.nz> <1146624988.3802.187.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <44581D4A.3060400@knox.net.nz> <1146626165.3802.201.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <1fa01fe80605022111l501760aer8ee9b2a98edf761f@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910605031135s3eb49c16saa05550dea5879c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910605031141p36bdcc28i26aba5288313c8b1@mail.gmail.com> On 5/3/06, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > And while this sort of "sloppy seconds" distribution of > a single piece of installation media may make sense in a closely > associated community of people who know each other, > oops,, let me finish that thought... while this sort of "sloppy seconds" distribution of a single piece of installation media may make sense in a closely associated community of people who know each other, it will severely hamper access to a working rescue environment for people who are not closely connected to other fedora users who will have media on hand. Think very hard about what group of users you expect to use such an organized pass along approach... its going to be the people who will be screwed if they ever find themselves in a situation where they need the rescue environment. People who are already associated with a community group like a LUG or in a college dorm already have access to "pass along" copies most likely and such an arganized project is overkill. -jef From MoneyProf at gmx.net Wed May 3 22:34:34 2006 From: MoneyProf at gmx.net (Volker Rupprecht) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 22:34:34 Subject: Two like people with different results Message-ID: Hi marketing expert or marketing interested person! Two People Pay for 1000 Visitors to their Website. One Gets 564 *new* subscribers, The Other Only Gets 194. Which One Are You? If you're more like the second guy, don't worry because there's no time like the present to change things around. Two marketing warriors are going to give you their secrets to being like the first guy, BUT there IS a catch... You'll have to join a "secretive" club first... ==> http://www.marketersdeathmatch.com/?aff=9043 I'll see you inside. Best regards, Volker P.S. The best part of joining our "elite" club is you can Get Paid Cold Hard Cash while you build your own business. Check it out and let me know what you think, okay? ==> http://www.marketersdeathmatch.com/?aff=9043 --- MAF Anti-Spam ID: 20060217131046E9f4PiF5 From lxmaier at gmail.com Wed May 3 21:22:23 2006 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 17:22:23 -0400 Subject: Two like people with different results In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7f617d270605031422v14536e0dl31c9ff03fb83e544@mail.gmail.com> Dear Marketing Prof Rupprecht! If you were the marketing professional you claim to be, you would have done at least a tiny bit of research before inviting Fedora to join your club to "grow our business." You probably would have at least scanned our homepage http://fedoraproject.org and there you would have read the following: "Fedora Core is an operating system and platform, based on Linux, that is always free for anyone to use, modify and distribute, now and forever. It is developed by a large community of people who strive to provide and maintain the very best in free, open source software and standards." After this, you wouldn't have spammed us. Thank you though, Alex Maier On Wed, 03 May 2006 22:34:34, Volker Rupprecht wrote: > > Hi marketing expert or marketing interested person! > > Two People Pay for 1000 Visitors to their Website. > > One Gets 564 *new* subscribers, The Other Only Gets 194. > > Which One Are You? > > If you're more like the second guy, don't worry because > there's no time like the present to change things around. > > Two marketing warriors are going to give you their secrets > to being like the first guy, BUT there IS a catch... > > You'll have to join a "secretive" club first... > > ==> http://www.marketersdeathmatch.com/?aff=9043 > > I'll see you inside. > > Best regards, > > Volker > > P.S. The best part of joining our "elite" club is you can > Get Paid Cold Hard Cash while you build your own business. > Check it out and let me know what you think, okay? > > ==> http://www.marketersdeathmatch.com/?aff=9043 > > --- > MAF Anti-Spam ID: 20060217131046E9f4PiF5 > > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Check out the new content on Fedora Project page! http://fedoraproject.org From tejasdinkar at gmail.com Thu May 4 14:20:37 2006 From: tejasdinkar at gmail.com (Tejas Dinkar) Date: Thu, 04 May 2006 19:50:37 +0530 Subject: Two like people with different results In-Reply-To: <7f617d270605031422v14536e0dl31c9ff03fb83e544@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f617d270605031422v14536e0dl31c9ff03fb83e544@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1146752437.2081.2.camel@linuxtop.gja.in> On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 17:22 -0400, Alex Maier wrote: > Dear Marketing Prof Rupprecht! > > If you were the marketing professional you claim to be, you would have > done at least a tiny bit of research before inviting Fedora to join > your club to "grow our business." Dear Ms Maier, Please do not feed the trolls. Also, one wonders how this idiot has gotten past moderation? This is likely to be a mass generated message. Gja From lxmaier at gmail.com Thu May 4 14:47:59 2006 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 10:47:59 -0400 Subject: Two like people with different results In-Reply-To: <1146752437.2081.2.camel@linuxtop.gja.in> References: <7f617d270605031422v14536e0dl31c9ff03fb83e544@mail.gmail.com> <1146752437.2081.2.camel@linuxtop.gja.in> Message-ID: <7f617d270605040747m4bdc104eia955a96560313@mail.gmail.com> Gja, He must be a subscriber. This is why I responded. a On 5/4/06, Tejas Dinkar wrote: > On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 17:22 -0400, Alex Maier wrote: > > Dear Marketing Prof Rupprecht! > > > > If you were the marketing professional you claim to be, you would have > > done at least a tiny bit of research before inviting Fedora to join > > your club to "grow our business." > > Dear Ms Maier, > > Please do not feed the trolls. > > Also, one wonders how this idiot has gotten past moderation? > > This is likely to be a mass generated message. > > Gja > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Check out the new content on Fedora Project page! http://fedoraproject.org From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun May 7 15:42:54 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 21:12:54 +0530 Subject: Sporting goods retailer now sporting Linux everywhere Message-ID: <1147016574.4310.49.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Hi Just about every Backcountry.com employee is running Fedora Linux on the desktop -- 50 workstations in the warehouse and 60 in the call center. "We have a policy that any machine replaced doesn't get Windows put back on it," Jenkins says. "It's Linux migration by attrition." Jenkins manages support for an inconsistent mix of desktop operating systems by utilizing the vast skills of his IT staff, who are well-versed in both Windows and Linux environments. The transition has been invisible to the users, he says, because all the server and desktop applications are accessed via a browser. "As long as I can get a browser window we're good to go." http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/04/13/1959240 Rahul From lxmaier at gmail.com Sun May 7 16:08:11 2006 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 12:08:11 -0400 Subject: Sporting goods retailer now sporting Linux everywhere In-Reply-To: <1147016574.4310.49.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> References: <1147016574.4310.49.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270605070908o6aada6c4j84198d49a211bb57@mail.gmail.com> Rahul, This is a great article! Loved it! Mind posting in on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/PressArchive ? Thanks, a On 5/7/06, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > > Just about every Backcountry.com employee is running Fedora Linux on the > desktop -- 50 workstations in the warehouse and 60 in the call center. > "We have a policy that any machine replaced doesn't get Windows put back > on it," Jenkins says. "It's Linux migration by attrition." Jenkins > manages support for an inconsistent mix of desktop operating systems by > utilizing the vast skills of his IT staff, who are well-versed in both > Windows and Linux environments. The transition has been invisible to the > users, he says, because all the server and desktop applications are > accessed via a browser. "As long as I can get a browser window we're > good to go." > > http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/04/13/1959240 > > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Check out the new content on Fedora Project page! http://fedoraproject.org From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun May 7 16:12:47 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 21:42:47 +0530 Subject: Sporting goods retailer now sporting Linux everywhere In-Reply-To: <7f617d270605070908o6aada6c4j84198d49a211bb57@mail.gmail.com> References: <1147016574.4310.49.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <7f617d270605070908o6aada6c4j84198d49a211bb57@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1147018367.4310.51.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Sun, 2006-05-07 at 12:08 -0400, Alex Maier wrote: > Rahul, > This is a great article! Loved it! > Mind posting in on >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/PressArchive ? Done. Rahul From marketing-list at fedoralinks.org Sun May 7 23:46:40 2006 From: marketing-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 18:46:40 -0500 Subject: Sporting goods retailer now sporting Linux everywhere In-Reply-To: <1147016574.4310.49.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> References: <1147016574.4310.49.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1147045600.7921.12.camel@cbcclt02.cbcchome.cbccgroup.com> On Sun, 2006-05-07 at 21:12 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > > Just about every Backcountry.com employee is running Fedora Linux on the > desktop -- 50 workstations in the warehouse and 60 in the call center. > "We have a policy that any machine replaced doesn't get Windows put back > on it," Jenkins says. "It's Linux migration by attrition." Jenkins > manages support for an inconsistent mix of desktop operating systems by > utilizing the vast skills of his IT staff, who are well-versed in both > Windows and Linux environments. The transition has been invisible to the > users, he says, because all the server and desktop applications are > accessed via a browser. "As long as I can get a browser window we're > good to go." > > http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/04/13/1959240 > > Rahul > This is great, I love seeing Linux making this kind of move. If the employees can use it at work they may soon adopt it at home... -- -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen Fedora Marketing Projects Fedora Ambassadors Steering Committee -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tejasdinkar at gmail.com Sun May 14 08:16:15 2006 From: tejasdinkar at gmail.com (Tejas Dinkar) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 13:46:15 +0530 Subject: fedora on Orkut Message-ID: <1147594575.24612.2.camel@linuxtop.gja.in> For some incomprehensible reason, The Fedora Community on Orkut is pretty big, and there are many people who choose to ask their Fedora Related doubts in the Orkut community, rather than on Fedora Forum or in the IRC channel. http://www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?cmm=1388 Anyone have any interesting views on this? Like how we can reach more people via Orkut? Gja From tejasdinkar at gmail.com Sun May 14 12:19:07 2006 From: tejasdinkar at gmail.com (Tejas Dinkar) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 17:49:07 +0530 Subject: fedora on Orkut Message-ID: <1147609148.24612.8.camel@linuxtop.gja.in> PS, if anyone needs an Orkut Invite, just ask me via email. Tejas From irving at alairelibre.net Sun May 14 12:58:22 2006 From: irving at alairelibre.net (Irving Bennett) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 07:58:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: fedora on Orkut In-Reply-To: <1147609148.24612.8.camel@linuxtop.gja.in> References: <1147609148.24612.8.camel@linuxtop.gja.in> Message-ID: <52610.172.17.1.1.1147611502.squirrel@alairelibre.net> > PS, if anyone needs an Orkut Invite, just ask me via email. > > Tejas > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > Hello Tejas, Thanks for offering an Orkut invite. I will take one if you would be so kind. Best regards, Irving From francesco.ugolini at fedora.redhat.com Sun May 14 14:09:46 2006 From: francesco.ugolini at fedora.redhat.com (Francesco Ugolini) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 16:09:46 +0200 Subject: fedora on Orkut In-Reply-To: <52610.172.17.1.1.1147611502.squirrel@alairelibre.net> References: <1147609148.24612.8.camel@linuxtop.gja.in> <52610.172.17.1.1.1147611502.squirrel@alairelibre.net> Message-ID: <82433629-51EF-41D8-811B-34E0F1665B7C@fedora.redhat.com> Me too. Il giorno 14/mag/06, alle ore 14:58, Irving Bennett ha scritto: >> PS, if anyone needs an Orkut Invite, just ask me via email. >> >> Tejas >> >> -- >> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list >> Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list >> > Hello Tejas, > > Thanks for offering an Orkut invite. I will take one if you would > be so kind. > > Best regards, > > Irving > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list From anandcomputerphreak at gmail.com Sun May 14 17:06:03 2006 From: anandcomputerphreak at gmail.com (Anand Capur) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 13:06:03 -0400 Subject: Orkut Invitation Message-ID: On 5/14/06, fedora-marketing-list-request at redhat.com < fedora-marketing-list-request at redhat.com> wrote: > > Send Fedora-marketing-list mailing list submissions to > fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fedora-marketing-list-request at redhat.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > fedora-marketing-list-owner at redhat.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Fedora-marketing-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. fedora on Orkut (Tejas Dinkar) > 2. fedora on Orkut (Tejas Dinkar) > 3. Re: fedora on Orkut (Irving Bennett) > 4. Re: fedora on Orkut (Francesco Ugolini) > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Tejas Dinkar > To: Fedora Marketing > Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 13:46:15 +0530 > Subject: fedora on Orkut > For some incomprehensible reason, The Fedora Community on Orkut is > pretty big, and there are many people who choose to ask their Fedora > Related doubts in the Orkut community, rather than on Fedora Forum or in > the IRC channel. > > http://www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?cmm=1388 > > Anyone have any interesting views on this? > > Like how we can reach more people via Orkut? > > Gja > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Tejas Dinkar > To: Fedora Marketing > Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 17:49:07 +0530 > Subject: fedora on Orkut > PS, if anyone needs an Orkut Invite, just ask me via email. > > Tejas > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "Irving Bennett" > To: "Discussions on expanding the Fedora user base" < > fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com> > Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 07:58:22 -0500 (EST) > Subject: Re: fedora on Orkut > > PS, if anyone needs an Orkut Invite, just ask me via email. > > > > Tejas > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > Hello Tejas, > > Thanks for offering an Orkut invite. I will take one if you would be so > kind. > > Best regards, > > Irving > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Francesco Ugolini > To: Discussions on expanding the Fedora user base < > fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com> > Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 16:09:46 +0200 > Subject: Re: fedora on Orkut > Me too. > > Il giorno 14/mag/06, alle ore 14:58, Irving Bennett ha scritto: > > >> PS, if anyone needs an Orkut Invite, just ask me via email. > >> > >> Tejas > >> > >> -- > >> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > >> Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > >> > > Hello Tejas, > > > > Thanks for offering an Orkut invite. I will take one if you would > > be so kind. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Irving > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > Could you please e-mail me one.(orkut invitation) anandcomputerphreak at gmail.com -- Anand Capur Arcnetworks -------------------- I'm an Ambassador for the Fedora Project! Fedora Core 5. The New Generation In Linux! Get it now @ http://fedoraproject.org/ -------------------- Firefox - Safer, Faster, Better http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=39064&t=1 -------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tejasdinkar at gmail.com Sun May 14 17:15:36 2006 From: tejasdinkar at gmail.com (Tejas Dinkar) Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 22:45:36 +0530 Subject: fedora on Orkut In-Reply-To: <82433629-51EF-41D8-811B-34E0F1665B7C@fedora.redhat.com> References: <1147609148.24612.8.camel@linuxtop.gja.in> <52610.172.17.1.1.1147611502.squirrel@alairelibre.net> <82433629-51EF-41D8-811B-34E0F1665B7C@fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1147626936.24612.10.camel@linuxtop.gja.in> On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 16:09 +0200, Francesco Ugolini wrote: > Me too. OK, I sent out a bulk invite to all who asked. But from next time, can we please message off list, so as to not bug the rest of the public ;) GJa From rodrigomenezes12 at yahoo.com.br Mon May 15 11:24:59 2006 From: rodrigomenezes12 at yahoo.com.br (Rodrigo Menezes) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 11:24:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: fedora on Orkut In-Reply-To: <82433629-51EF-41D8-811B-34E0F1665B7C@fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060515112459.60009.qmail@web33806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> We have a Brazilian Fedora Comunity too, check it out: http://www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?cmm=26518 Rodrigo Menezes Francesco Ugolini escreveu: Me too. Il giorno 14/mag/06, alle ore 14:58, Irving Bennett ha scritto: >> PS, if anyone needs an Orkut Invite, just ask me via email. >> >> Tejas >> >> -- >> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list >> Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list >> > Hello Tejas, > > Thanks for offering an Orkut invite. I will take one if you would > be so kind. > > Best regards, > > Irving > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list --------------------------------- Abra sua conta no Yahoo! Mail - 1GB de espa?o, alertas de e-mail no celular e anti-spam realmente eficaz. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Thu May 18 08:39:27 2006 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 03:39:27 -0500 Subject: Logo guidelines status. Message-ID: <446C32BF.30102@prodigy.net.mx> It's been a couple times now that I have sent a request for the Logo just like what the "current" guidelines indicate, and have never got back the said e-mail with either further instructions, questions or a direct rejection, only silence... And i can't help but wonder, what's the status of the Fedora Logo guidelines and terms of use, since the Wiki simply is not very informative. Any news about it? I'd really like to use vector versions of the images instead of plainly copying the pixmaps off the site, but apparently that ain't going to happen (not to me, at least). In any case, I'm hoping to be able to work on some DVD case covers and a manual I am working on (which I would like it to feature the logo)... Is there a place where I could obtain a copy of the logo (just the bubble+f+infinite) in SVG format? And another question I had been having was about the whole issue with the font, has the font been released as Open and Free yet? I would have expected to find it bundled with Core 5, but it did not come, so I assume that by the time Core 5 got leaked, the font wasn't yet released... *rant to self* I still wonder why a proprietary font was used for the logo of a project like Fedora *sigh* (sorry, had to get that out of my chest). From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu May 18 08:46:39 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 11:46:39 +0300 Subject: Logo guidelines status. In-Reply-To: <446C32BF.30102@prodigy.net.mx> References: <446C32BF.30102@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <446C346F.6030709@nicubunu.ro> Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > > *rant to self* I still wonder why a proprietary font was used for the > logo of a project like Fedora *sigh* (sorry, had to get that out of my > chest). Fortunately, we have big images with the logo and is trivial to trace them (Inkscape, potrace, autotrace, etc.) and obtain a version in vector format, at least this is what i did for my own use -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nman64 at n-man.com Thu May 18 09:57:28 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 04:57:28 -0500 Subject: Logo guidelines status. In-Reply-To: <446C32BF.30102@prodigy.net.mx> References: <446C32BF.30102@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <200605180457.31323.nman64@n-man.com> On Thursday 18 May 2006 03:39, Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > It's been a couple times now that I have sent a request for the Logo > just like what the "current" guidelines indicate, and have never got > back the said e-mail with either further instructions, questions or a > direct rejection, only silence... And i can't help but wonder, what's > the status of the Fedora Logo guidelines and terms of use, since the > Wiki simply is not very informative. Any news about it? I'd really like > to use vector versions of the images instead of plainly copying the > pixmaps off the site, but apparently that ain't going to happen (not to > me, at least). In any case, I'm hoping to be able to work on some DVD > case covers and a manual I am working on (which I would like it to > feature the logo)... Is there a place where I could obtain a copy of the > logo (just the bubble+f+infinite) in SVG format? The guidelines are still under construction. If you haven't gotten authorization, it could be that your request has yet to be reviewed, or that you have presented a usage case for which a decision has not yet been made. In order to begin developing your graphics, you can access an SVG form of the logo that is probably already on your system: /usr/share/pixmaps/fedora-logo-sprite.svg It is part of the fedora-logos package in Fedora Core 5. Even though you may develop your graphics, you should not publish them anywhere until you have proper authorization. > > And another question I had been having was about the whole issue with > the font, has the font been released as Open and Free yet? I would have > expected to find it bundled with Core 5, but it did not come, so I > assume that by the time Core 5 got leaked, the font wasn't yet released... > There are no plans to purchase and release the font as open. Last I heard, a free font to complement the logo was in the works, but the original font will not be made free anytime in the foreseeable future. It is an unfortunate truth, but it is one we must live with for now. The original font name is Bryant 2. It is available from Process Type Foundry. http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html You're welcome to make an offer to them to purchase rights to release the font as open, but you'd better have some deep pockets. ;-) -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Thu May 18 10:34:04 2006 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 05:34:04 -0500 Subject: Logo guidelines status. In-Reply-To: <200605180457.31323.nman64@n-man.com> References: <446C32BF.30102@prodigy.net.mx> <200605180457.31323.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <446C4D9C.1000905@prodigy.net.mx> Patrick W. Barnes escribi?: > The guidelines are still under construction. If you haven't gotten > authorization, it could be that your request has yet to be reviewed, or that > you have presented a usage case for which a decision has not yet been made. > > In order to begin developing your graphics, you can access an SVG form of the > logo that is probably already on your system: > > /usr/share/pixmaps/fedora-logo-sprite.svg > I've seen it, thank you for pointing it out, though. Found it doing an rpm -ql fedora-logos > It is part of the fedora-logos package in Fedora Core 5. > > Even though you may develop your graphics, you should not publish them > anywhere until you have proper authorization. > Which is why I'm waiting authorization... It's been a couple times (in the past months) that I've requested the logo for the very same purposes DVD case covers and brochoures and other stuff... I know I won't be doing any harm to the Fedora image, but I still need the green flag to do it... just confuses the heck out of me this situation, as I'm not free to do what I'd like to do to PROMOTE Fedora (maybe it's just me, but that seems paradoxical). > There are no plans to purchase and release the font as open. Last I heard, a > free font to complement the logo was in the works, but the original font will > not be made free anytime in the foreseeable future. It is an unfortunate > truth, but it is one we must live with for now. > > The original font name is Bryant 2. It is available from Process Type > Foundry. > > http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html > > You're welcome to make an offer to them to purchase rights to release the font > as open, but you'd better have some deep pockets. ;-) > And taht's just what I simply don't get... How did the logo using this font got approved in the first place?, of Fedora which advocates use of freely available (freedom, no bounds attached, not free as in beer) tools, software, docs, etc. The idea of the bubble+f+infinity is excellent, but I can't help but wonder why the "fedora" part was approved (which is part of the logo, from what I gather), and not only that, but USED by the project when the font is not free (why was not used a free font instead? It's beyond me)... Anyway, personally I liked the old font better, but that's just me... From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu May 18 12:16:56 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 15:16:56 +0300 Subject: Logo guidelines status. In-Reply-To: <446C4D9C.1000905@prodigy.net.mx> References: <446C32BF.30102@prodigy.net.mx> <200605180457.31323.nman64@n-man.com> <446C4D9C.1000905@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <446C65B8.5070009@nicubunu.ro> Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > Patrick W. Barnes escribi?: >> >> The original font name is Bryant 2. It is available from Process Type >> Foundry. >> >> http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html >> > And taht's just what I simply don't get... How did the logo using this > font got approved in the first place?, of Fedora which advocates use of > freely available (freedom, no bounds attached, not free as in beer) > tools, software, docs, etc. In my understanding, the copyright does not cover how a font face look, only the implementation, the "program" (the specific TTF file) - http://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/20050425novalis So implementing something which looks like that font should be OK. Here is an *ugly* and unpolished start: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork/logo/fedora_font.svg (it does not look extremely bad at small resolutions). With a few days of work it should be possible to create something acceptable for screen (not print) usage. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From rodrigomenezes12 at yahoo.com.br Thu May 18 12:59:41 2006 From: rodrigomenezes12 at yahoo.com.br (Rodrigo Menezes) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 12:59:41 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Logo guidelines status. In-Reply-To: <446C4D9C.1000905@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <20060518125941.61268.qmail@web33812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> For CD Arts and covers, take a look here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/CDArt Cheers, Rodrigo Menezes Gain Paolo Mureddu escreveu: Patrick W. Barnes escribi?: > The guidelines are still under construction. If you haven't gotten > authorization, it could be that your request has yet to be reviewed, or that > you have presented a usage case for which a decision has not yet been made. > > In order to begin developing your graphics, you can access an SVG form of the > logo that is probably already on your system: > > /usr/share/pixmaps/fedora-logo-sprite.svg > I've seen it, thank you for pointing it out, though. Found it doing an rpm -ql fedora-logos > It is part of the fedora-logos package in Fedora Core 5. > > Even though you may develop your graphics, you should not publish them > anywhere until you have proper authorization. > Which is why I'm waiting authorization... It's been a couple times (in the past months) that I've requested the logo for the very same purposes DVD case covers and brochoures and other stuff... I know I won't be doing any harm to the Fedora image, but I still need the green flag to do it... just confuses the heck out of me this situation, as I'm not free to do what I'd like to do to PROMOTE Fedora (maybe it's just me, but that seems paradoxical). > There are no plans to purchase and release the font as open. Last I heard, a > free font to complement the logo was in the works, but the original font will > not be made free anytime in the foreseeable future. It is an unfortunate > truth, but it is one we must live with for now. > > The original font name is Bryant 2. It is available from Process Type > Foundry. > > http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html > > You're welcome to make an offer to them to purchase rights to release the font > as open, but you'd better have some deep pockets. ;-) > And taht's just what I simply don't get... How did the logo using this font got approved in the first place?, of Fedora which advocates use of freely available (freedom, no bounds attached, not free as in beer) tools, software, docs, etc. The idea of the bubble+f+infinity is excellent, but I can't help but wonder why the "fedora" part was approved (which is part of the logo, from what I gather), and not only that, but USED by the project when the font is not free (why was not used a free font instead? It's beyond me)... Anyway, personally I liked the old font better, but that's just me... -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list --------------------------------- Abra sua conta no Yahoo! Mail - 1GB de espa?o, alertas de e-mail no celular e anti-spam realmente eficaz. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mspevack at redhat.com Thu May 18 17:33:35 2006 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 13:33:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Logo guidelines status. In-Reply-To: <446C32BF.30102@prodigy.net.mx> References: <446C32BF.30102@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 May 2006, Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > It's been a couple times now that I have sent a request for the Logo > just like what the "current" guidelines indicate, and have never got > back the said e-mail with either further instructions, questions or a > direct rejection, only silence... And i can't help but wonder, what's > the status of the Fedora Logo guidelines and terms of use, since the > Wiki simply is not very informative. Any news about it? Yes, and I take responsibility for you not having heard things sooner. It's funny how emails work out sometimes, since I'm getting ready to sit down in a meeting with some folks in which we review a draft of all the things you're talking about, finalize a lot of the questions that you are asking, and get a target date for a final draft. So I ask for a little more patience as we finalize things, and then you can expect a full report and updating of the wiki. Thanks, Max -- Max Spevack + http://people.redhat.com/mspevack/ + gpg key -- http://people.redhat.com/mspevack/mspevack.asc + fingerprint -- CD52 5E72 369B B00D 9E9A 773E 2FDB CB46 5A17 CF21 From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Thu May 18 19:02:50 2006 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 14:02:50 -0500 Subject: Logo guidelines status. In-Reply-To: References: <446C32BF.30102@prodigy.net.mx> <"Pine.LNX.4.64.0605181330260.2142 3"@mspevack.rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <446CC4DA.2080503@prodigy.net.mx> Max Spevack escribi?: > On Thu, 18 May 2006, Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > >> It's been a couple times now that I have sent a request for the Logo >> just like what the "current" guidelines indicate, and have never got >> back the said e-mail with either further instructions, questions or a >> direct rejection, only silence... And i can't help but wonder, what's >> the status of the Fedora Logo guidelines and terms of use, since the >> Wiki simply is not very informative. Any news about it? > > Yes, and I take responsibility for you not having heard things sooner. > It's funny how emails work out sometimes, since I'm getting ready to > sit down in a meeting with some folks in which we review a draft of > all the things you're talking about, finalize a lot of the questions > that you are asking, and get a target date for a final draft. > > So I ask for a little more patience as we finalize things, and then > you can expect a full report and updating of the wiki. > > Thanks, > Max > I appreciate you took the time to answer to this e-mail, I also hope the situation of the font will solved soon too, as the apparent dichotomy is too notorious. From chasd at silveroaks.com Thu May 18 23:04:56 2006 From: chasd at silveroaks.com (chasd at silveroaks.com) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 18:04:56 -0500 Subject: Logo guidelines status In-Reply-To: <20060518160009.AFD45739C2@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060518160009.AFD45739C2@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <908d1130e68936549efc367b50c2607b@silveroaks.com> > I still wonder why a proprietary font was used for the > logo of a project like Fedora What font is used in a logo really does not impact the choice of other fonts used in a layout that includes that logo. In fact, it is my opinion that using a font in a layout that is the _same_ as the font used in a logo included in the layout dilutes the impact of the logo. These other fonts certainly could be fonts that are free to use. In other words, why would you want to use the font from the logo anywhere else in a design ? I would think the Fedora Project would want to control what other fonts are used in any layouts or graphics, so a consistent image is presented at all times. Is there any work being done on an identity style guide for the Fedora Project ? If you are not sure what I am talking about, Google "identity guide" and take a look how other organizations document best practices on the use of their logos, and creating documents or layouts to present a consistent visual identity. > Fortunately, we have big images with the logo and is trivial to trace > them (Inkscape, potrace, autotrace, etc.) and obtain a version in > vector > format, at least this is what i did for my own use Most organizations prefer to keep the reproduction quality of the graphics used in their visual identity at a high level. Re-processing ( as the above quote suggests ) or modifying original graphics can lead to poor quality graphics, which can translate into a poor identity, or a negative reaction to the graphics. That is generally accepted as a Bad Thing. Most organizations that go through the effort to develop a logo or other visual identity also make the effort to make sure every use of their logo is up to a certain standard. I have heard the term "logo cop" used for individuals with that responsibility. Using a poor quality Fedora logo could hurt the Project more than it would help promote it, if that poor quality logo degrades the visual identity of the Project. It is unfortunate that the usage guidelines have not considered all possible usage cases, and that has caused delays in the ability for some to use the logo. With visual identity, you only have the first shot at making a good impression. Protecting the visual identity of the Fedora Project is nearly as important as protecting your personal identity, so I understand the care that must be taken here. Charles Dostale System Admin - Silver Oaks Communications http://www.silveroaks.com/ 824 17th Street, Moline IL 61265 From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Thu May 18 23:38:09 2006 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 20:38:09 -0300 Subject: Fedora Education Message-ID: <446D0561.4050903@projetofedora.org> Hi People!!! In Brazil we are creating a project education with different focus. We are making a survey of the available educational tools and Its applications. Objective: 1- create one fedora based livecd to promote the inclusion digital in Brazil. 2 - create one fedora based livecd for cientific use. -- +================================================+ RODRIGO PADULA DE OLIVEIRA (o- MESTRANDO EM ENGENHARIA DE SISTEMAS //\ LINHA DE PESQUISA: BANCO DE DADOS V_/_ COPPE/UFRJ PostgreSQL - PHP - WML - Linux +================================================+ Embaixador do Fedora Core no Brasil http://www.projetofedora.org From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Fri May 19 00:54:12 2006 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 19:54:12 -0500 Subject: Logo guidelines status In-Reply-To: <908d1130e68936549efc367b50c2607b@silveroaks.com> References: <20060518160009.AFD45739C2@hormel.redhat.com> <"908d1130e68936549e fc367b50c2607b"@silveroaks.com> Message-ID: <446D1734.5050602@prodigy.net.mx> chasd at silveroaks.com escribi?: >> I still wonder why a proprietary font was used for the >> logo of a project like Fedora > > What font is used in a logo really does not impact the choice of other > fonts used in a layout that includes that logo. In fact, it is my > opinion that using a font in a layout that is the _same_ as the font > used in a logo included in the layout dilutes the impact of the logo. > These other fonts certainly could be fonts that are free to use. > > In other words, why would you want to use the font from the logo > anywhere else in a design ? Not the font, but the logo itself, the way I see it they are actually two logos: The bubbling f with enclosed within the infinity symbol, and the word "fedora" written with the font (for identity), so you have a text logo and an image logo. > > I would think the Fedora Project would want to control what other > fonts are used in any layouts or graphics, so a consistent image is > presented at all times. Is there any work being done on an identity > style guide for the Fedora Project ? If you are not sure what I am > talking about, Google "identity guide" and take a look how other > organizations document best practices on the use of their logos, and > creating documents or layouts to present a consistent visual identity. My point was that Fedora is not free to distribute the whole logo (text + image) due to the fact that the font is not open or free, which seems a bit strange for a FLOSS project. From nman64 at n-man.com Fri May 19 01:22:25 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 20:22:25 -0500 Subject: Logo guidelines status In-Reply-To: <446D1734.5050602@prodigy.net.mx> References: <20060518160009.AFD45739C2@hormel.redhat.com> <"908d1130e68936549e fc367b50c2607b"@silveroaks.com> <446D1734.5050602@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <200605182022.28435.nman64@n-man.com> On Thursday 18 May 2006 19:54, Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > > My point was that Fedora is not free to distribute the whole logo (text > + image) due to the fact that the font is not open or free, which seems > a bit strange for a FLOSS project. > We are completely free to redistribute the rendered logo, just not the font that is used to produce it. This simply means that people cannot reproduce the full logo or extend it with more text in the same font unless they purchase the font separately. We can do anything we wish with the vector or raster forms of the logo. The guidelines will establish what powers the community has to use our logo, and after the guidelines are made readily available, so will key files needed to produce new artwork using the logo. Existing style references can be found among the Fedora Artwork pages. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork There won't be much coverage of the logo among those pages until the guidelines are available. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chasd at silveroaks.com Fri May 19 17:16:49 2006 From: chasd at silveroaks.com (chasd at silveroaks.com) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 12:16:49 -0500 Subject: Logo guidelines status In-Reply-To: <20060519160008.6D210732A7@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060519160008.6D210732A7@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: >> In other words, why would you want to use the font from the logo >> anywhere else in a design ? > Not the font, but the logo itself, the way I see it they are actually > two logos: The bubbling f with enclosed within the infinity symbol, and > the word "fedora" written with the font (for identity), so you have a > text logo and an image logo. The way I see it, the logo is the combination of the the two parts you mention. But it doesn't matter what I think or what you think, it matters how "the logo" is defined as in the usage guide. Which is why the usage guide is important. What constitutes the logo and how it is used becomes not a personal decision on a case by case basis, but a uniform policy. Sign me Spaleta-style, Charles "I used to be a designer, but I lost my tools" Dostale From mspevack at redhat.com Sat May 20 00:00:13 2006 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 20:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Logo guidelines status In-Reply-To: <908d1130e68936549efc367b50c2607b@silveroaks.com> References: <20060518160009.AFD45739C2@hormel.redhat.com> <908d1130e68936549efc367b50c2607b@silveroaks.com> Message-ID: > I would think the Fedora Project would want to control what other fonts are > used in any layouts or graphics, so a consistent image is presented at all > times. Is there any work being done on an identity style guide for the Fedora > Project ? If you are not sure what I am talking about, Google "identity > guide" and take a look how other organizations document best practices on the > use of their logos, and creating documents or layouts to present a consistent > visual identity. Yes, there absolutely is. We'll have something that we can share with this list, complete with various official versions of the fedora logo, usage guidelines, and free font guidelines very soon. > Most organizations prefer to keep the reproduction quality of the > graphics used in their visual identity at a high level. Re-processing ( > as the above quote suggests ) or modifying original graphics can lead to > poor quality graphics, which can translate into a poor identity, or a > negative reaction to the graphics. That is generally accepted as a Bad > Thing. Most organizations that go through the effort to develop a logo > or other visual identity also make the effort to make sure every use of > their logo is up to a certain standard. I have heard the term "logo cop" > used for individuals with that responsibility. > > Using a poor quality Fedora logo could hurt the Project more than it > would help promote it, if that poor quality logo degrades the visual > identity of the Project. > > It is unfortunate that the usage guidelines have not considered all > possible usage cases, and that has caused delays in the ability for some > to use the logo. With visual identity, you only have the first shot at > making a good impression. Protecting the visual identity of the Fedora > Project is nearly as important as protecting your personal identity, so > I understand the care that must be taken here. I really the completeness and thoughtfulness of this note. To all of you -- stay tuned, we're close to having this ready. --Max -- Max Spevack + http://people.redhat.com/mspevack/ + gpg key -- http://people.redhat.com/mspevack/mspevack.asc + fingerprint -- CD52 5E72 369B B00D 9E9A 773E 2FDB CB46 5A17 CF21 From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat May 20 09:39:45 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 15:09:45 +0530 Subject: Fedora Board chair looks ahead Message-ID: <1148117985.4310.431.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Hi http://os.newsforge.com/os/06/05/15/1729249.shtml?tid=2 Max, can you expand on the reference to conary? Is there a switch in package management actually being discussed or was that a analogy? Rahul From michael at knox.net.nz Sat May 20 09:41:40 2006 From: michael at knox.net.nz (Michael J Knox) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 21:41:40 +1200 Subject: Fedora Board chair looks ahead In-Reply-To: <1148117985.4310.431.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> References: <1148117985.4310.431.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Message-ID: <446EE454.7050202@knox.net.nz> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > http://os.newsforge.com/os/06/05/15/1729249.shtml?tid=2 > > Max, can you expand on the reference to conary? Is there a switch in > package management actually being discussed or was that a analogy? gees.. I hope not, I have worked conary and it is not that great at all. Michael From karlie_robinson at webpath.net Sat May 20 11:57:19 2006 From: karlie_robinson at webpath.net (Karlie Robinson) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 07:57:19 -0400 Subject: Sponsored Media Marketing (& a brief progress report) Message-ID: <446F041F.3070306@webpath.net> Good morning, all. Pure Marketing stuff for you this morning! Sponsored Media is beginning to pick up steam, but it could still use your help to get the word out (the marketing part). A couple of days ago, Sponsored Media was given some very valuable webspace [1], and it's beginning to pay off. We've shipped 6 sponsored discs in the last two days, which is just about as many as we have done since the beginning of the program. You can see from the May tracking page [2], that there are still many requests that need to be filled to get us on track for continual fulfillment. So, Please, continue to talk about Sponsored Media whenever you see a slight opening. It doesn't have to be a sales pitch or anything spectacular. Just toss the Sponsored Media link around [3] when you see anyone saying anything about ways to contribute to Fedora. You can also Digg the news about Sponsored Media. There is an article about Sponsored Media [4] already on Digg.com and could use some diggs to bring it out of obscurity. If you're not familiar with Digg.com, it's a system by which the community at large decides what's news and what's not. [1] http://www.redhat.com/fedora/ [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/FreeMedia/FC5DVD/May [3] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/SponsoredMedia [4] http://digg.com/linux_unix/Donations_to_the_Fedora_Project_-_Sorta -- Karlie Robinson Owner, Webpath Technologies On the Web at: http://webpath.net http://on-disk.com http://portal.on-disk.com From tchung at fedoraproject.org Sat May 20 22:37:44 2006 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 15:37:44 -0700 Subject: Sponsored Media Marketing (& a brief progress report) In-Reply-To: <446F041F.3070306@webpath.net> References: <446F041F.3070306@webpath.net> Message-ID: <369bce3b0605201537q5b06e2d9xd80a2be23c92256a@mail.gmail.com> On 5/20/06, Karlie Robinson wrote: > Good morning, all. > > Pure Marketing stuff for you this morning! Sponsored Media is beginning > to pick up steam, but it could still use your help to get the word out > (the marketing part). > > A couple of days ago, Sponsored Media was given some very valuable > webspace [1], and it's beginning to pay off. > > We've shipped 6 sponsored discs in the last two days, which is just > about as many as we have done since the beginning of the program. > > You can see from the May tracking page [2], that there are still many > requests that need to be filled to get us on track for continual > fulfillment. > > So, Please, continue to talk about Sponsored Media whenever you see a > slight opening. It doesn't have to be a sales pitch or anything > spectacular. Just toss the Sponsored Media link around [3] when you see > anyone saying anything about ways to contribute to Fedora. > > You can also Digg the news about Sponsored Media. > > There is an article about Sponsored Media [4] already on Digg.com and > could use some diggs to bring it out of obscurity. > > If you're not familiar with Digg.com, it's a system by which the > community at large decides what's news and what's not. > > [1] http://www.redhat.com/fedora/ > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/FreeMedia/FC5DVD/May > [3] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/SponsoredMedia > [4] http://digg.com/linux_unix/Donations_to_the_Fedora_Project_-_Sorta > > -- > Karlie Robinson > Owner, Webpath Technologies > On the Web at: > http://webpath.net > http://on-disk.com > http://portal.on-disk.com Thank you Karlie, Here is another related blog by Paul W. Frields http://marilyn.frields.org:8080/~paul/wordpress/?p=666 Cheers! -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From thulshof at gmail.com Tue May 23 08:51:40 2006 From: thulshof at gmail.com (Thijs Hulshof) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 01:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Photos Message-ID: <1429657169.1148374300286.JavaMail.ringo@ringo16.tickle.com> http://www.ringo.com/i.html?i=146994684x176107&homeEmail=fedora-marketing-list%40redhat.com&firstName=Discussions&lastName=on+expanding+the+Fedora+user+base&origin=invite Block invitations from Thijs: http://www.ringo.com/friends/invite/block.html?memberId=146994684&email=fedora-marketing-list%40redhat.com&origin=invite Block all invitations: http://www.ringo.com/friends/invite/block.html?email=fedora-marketing-list%40redhat.com&origin=invite -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Tue May 23 09:24:45 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 04:24:45 -0500 Subject: Photos In-Reply-To: <1429657169.1148374300286.JavaMail.ringo@ringo16.tickle.com> References: <1429657169.1148374300286.JavaMail.ringo@ringo16.tickle.com> Message-ID: <200605230424.48914.nman64@n-man.com> The following comment applies to everyone, not just Thijs: PLEASE do not upload your entire address book (which may include fedora-ambassadors-list or other Fedora addresses) to ANY third-party service, and NEVER include ANY Fedora address when mass-mailing ANYTHING. Aside from concerns over your privacy and that of other Fedora Project contributors, it often results in messages like the one that started this thread, which serve only to annoy list members and can often lead to a rise in junk mail sent to the lists. ?Since the sender gets your email address too, it can forge the "From" header and avoid many list rules, like this message did. ?It is a violation against you and the other recipients. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fedora at nodata.co.uk Tue May 23 09:44:45 2006 From: fedora at nodata.co.uk (nodata) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 11:44:45 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Photos In-Reply-To: <200605230424.48914.nman64@n-man.com> References: <1429657169.1148374300286.JavaMail.ringo@ringo16.tickle.com> <200605230424.48914.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <18758.213.164.3.90.1148377485.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> > The following comment applies to everyone, not just Thijs: > > PLEASE do not upload your entire address book (which may include > fedora-ambassadors-list or other Fedora addresses) to ANY third-party > service, and NEVER include ANY Fedora address when mass-mailing ANYTHING. > > Aside from concerns over your privacy and that of other Fedora Project > contributors, it often results in messages like the one that started this > thread, which serve only to annoy list members and can often lead to a > rise > in junk mail sent to the lists. ? Since the sender gets your email address > too, it can forge the "From" header and avoid many list rules, like this > message did. ? It is a violation against you and the other recipients. > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > nman64 at n-man.com > The people who upload their address books to social networking sites won't read this. From thulshof at gmail.com Tue May 23 12:52:50 2006 From: thulshof at gmail.com (Thijs) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 14:52:50 +0200 Subject: Photos In-Reply-To: <18758.213.164.3.90.1148377485.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> References: <1429657169.1148374300286.JavaMail.ringo@ringo16.tickle.com> <200605230424.48914.nman64@n-man.com> <18758.213.164.3.90.1148377485.squirrel@www.nodata.co.uk> Message-ID: <9590b2a80605230552x7d2dab8eicf88dcbee9a5ca17@mail.gmail.com> > > The people who upload their address books to social networking sites won't > read this. I do read it, but now it's too late ;-) I'm very sorry for the inconvenience ! -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mspevack at redhat.com Tue May 23 14:04:26 2006 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 10:04:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora Board chair looks ahead In-Reply-To: <1148117985.4310.431.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> References: <1148117985.4310.431.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 May 2006, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > http://os.newsforge.com/os/06/05/15/1729249.shtml?tid=2 > > Max, can you expand on the reference to conary? Is there a switch in > package management actually being discussed or was that a analogy? No, no switch being discussed -- that was just the author's conclusion based on my quote. I can see how he would think that, but it wasn't what I was trying to suggest at all. Overall, I was pleased with the article. I thought it was very well done. --Max -- Max Spevack + http://people.redhat.com/mspevack/ + gpg key -- http://people.redhat.com/mspevack/mspevack.asc + fingerprint -- CD52 5E72 369B B00D 9E9A 773E 2FDB CB46 5A17 CF21 From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue May 23 15:34:05 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 10:34:05 -0500 Subject: Photos In-Reply-To: <1429657169.1148374300286.JavaMail.ringo@ringo16.tickle.com> References: <1429657169.1148374300286.JavaMail.ringo@ringo16.tickle.com> Message-ID: <44732B6D.9010909@adelphia.net> Thijs Hulshof wrote: > http://www.ringo.com/i.html?i=146994684x176107&homeEmail=fedora-marketing-list%40redhat.com&firstName=Discussions&lastName=on+expanding+the+Fedora+user+base&origin=invite > > That link is misssing it's destination. From marc.w at smlintl.com.au Wed May 24 02:11:10 2006 From: marc.w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 10:11:10 +0800 Subject: Fedora Board chair looks ahead In-Reply-To: References: <1148117985.4310.431.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1148436670.2390.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-05-23 at 10:04 -0400, Max Spevack wrote: > On Sat, 20 May 2006, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > Hi > > > > http://os.newsforge.com/os/06/05/15/1729249.shtml?tid=2 > > > > Max, can you expand on the reference to conary? Is there a switch in > > package management actually being discussed or was that a analogy? > > No, no switch being discussed -- that was just the author's conclusion > based on my quote. I can see how he would think that, but it wasn't what > I was trying to suggest at all. > > Overall, I was pleased with the article. I thought it was very well done. > > --Max > *offtopic* One of the things I read through maybe into it was that people were discussing different views of voting. I would have thought that the contributors as in not me but other people who have significantly contributed to the project should vote but aside from that other people shouldn't. My thoughts are based on the fact that commitment is showing in contribution. However grey areas such as myself is the annoying thing :( It's quite interesting from someone that is not involved in the discussions to see how it turns out. *offtopic* Is there a chance of having different members of the board speaking publicly? What I mean by this is having them with all their free time /sarcasm spend a few moments in putting a path in words of where fedora is heading? I quite like reading articles from leading people in the open source community where they talk about whats up and coming and how they are dealing with it. It seems like several *points* can be made. 1. Marketing their distro. 2. Advising the community what someones view is on future changes. Overall I liked it as well but by the end of the article it left me with a huge number of questions. Regards, Marc From suser.koolinus at gmail.com Wed May 24 06:39:21 2006 From: suser.koolinus at gmail.com (nicola .:kOoLiNuS:. losito) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 08:39:21 +0200 Subject: Sponsored Media Marketing (& a brief progress report) In-Reply-To: <446F041F.3070306@webpath.net> References: <446F041F.3070306@webpath.net> Message-ID: <1148452761.4437.34.camel@cerebro> Hi people, on the Media distribution i'd like to remember a "program" started by the FedoraItalia.org [1] community where a bunch of people, dislocated all over Italy, give away the installation cd/dvd at the bare cost of the support + shipping. we had a list of people declaring: who where available FC release type me Rome (ie) FC1, FC2, FC3, FC4, FC5 cd + dvd Personally i've sent a dozen discs all over the year, while at the moment the service is stopped for a number of internal reasons. Now, i have to re-read the Sponsored Media Marketing thing again but, if buying a copy of that discs doesn't give directly money to Fedora, then i think that also other communities could "copy" the italian one's. Also i'd like to add a thought, it has occurred to me to prepare a bunch of disks to give away in some African countries (since some of my friends have done some lesson "in loco"). And while a 3.6GB disc was welcome i fear that the average amount of data we download at each update is overkill for them (and even to some particular locations or countries where the connection to internet is made over pstn lines or at best some ISDN). Maybe we should also think at implementing "diff" updates, like SuSE did some time ago ... but that's a topic for another list (maybe) -- nicola .:kOoLiNuS:. losito http://koolinus.wordpress.com http://www.koolinus.net "If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy." Linux Registered User #293182 From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed May 24 06:51:51 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 12:21:51 +0530 Subject: Fedora Board chair looks ahead In-Reply-To: <1148436670.2390.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1148117985.4310.431.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <1148436670.2390.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1148453511.4310.563.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Wed, 2006-05-24 at 10:11 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Tue, 2006-05-23 at 10:04 -0400, Max Spevack wrote: > > On Sat, 20 May 2006, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > > > Hi > > > > > > http://os.newsforge.com/os/06/05/15/1729249.shtml?tid=2 > > > > > > Max, can you expand on the reference to conary? Is there a switch in > > > package management actually being discussed or was that a analogy? > > > > No, no switch being discussed -- that was just the author's conclusion > > based on my quote. I can see how he would think that, but it wasn't what > > I was trying to suggest at all. > > > > Overall, I was pleased with the article. I thought it was very well done. > > > > --Max > > > *offtopic* > One of the things I read through maybe into it was that people were > discussing different views of voting. > > I would have thought that the contributors as in not me but other people > who have significantly contributed to the project should vote but aside > from that other people shouldn't. > > My thoughts are based on the fact that commitment is showing in > contribution. However grey areas such as myself is the annoying > thing :( > > It's quite interesting from someone that is not involved in the > discussions to see how it turns out. The current thinking is that for Fedora Extras Steering committee, the ones in the owners list and cvsextras group in the accounts system would be eligible for voting since they have contributed atleast one package to the Fedora pool. Does that address your concern? > > *offtopic* > > Is there a chance of having different members of the board speaking > publicly? What I mean by this is having them with all their free > time /sarcasm spend a few moments in putting a path in words of where > fedora is heading? > > I quite like reading articles from leading people in the open source > community where they talk about whats up and coming and how they are > dealing with it. > > It seems like several *points* can be made. 1. Marketing their distro. > 2. Advising the community what someones view is on future changes. > > Overall I liked it as well but by the end of the article it left me with > a huge number of questions. You might get some insight from the Fedora Board meeting mins at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings. Some of us do write articles thought this one isnt necessarily the kind of thing you are looking for http://www.redhat.com/magazine/018apr06/features/fc5_overview/ Rahul From marc.w at smlintl.com.au Thu May 25 02:47:31 2006 From: marc.w at smlintl.com.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 10:47:31 +0800 Subject: Fedora Board chair looks ahead In-Reply-To: <1148453511.4310.563.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> References: <1148117985.4310.431.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <1148436670.2390.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1148453511.4310.563.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1148525252.3406.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-05-24 at 12:21 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On Wed, 2006-05-24 at 10:11 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Tue, 2006-05-23 at 10:04 -0400, Max Spevack wrote: > > > On Sat, 20 May 2006, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > http://os.newsforge.com/os/06/05/15/1729249.shtml?tid=2 > > > > > > > > Max, can you expand on the reference to conary? Is there a switch in > > > > package management actually being discussed or was that a analogy? > > > > > > No, no switch being discussed -- that was just the author's conclusion > > > based on my quote. I can see how he would think that, but it wasn't what > > > I was trying to suggest at all. > > > > > > Overall, I was pleased with the article. I thought it was very well done. > > > > > > --Max > > > > > *offtopic* > > One of the things I read through maybe into it was that people were > > discussing different views of voting. > > > > I would have thought that the contributors as in not me but other people > > who have significantly contributed to the project should vote but aside > > from that other people shouldn't. > > > > My thoughts are based on the fact that commitment is showing in > > contribution. However grey areas such as myself is the annoying > > thing :( > > > > It's quite interesting from someone that is not involved in the > > discussions to see how it turns out. > > The current thinking is that for Fedora Extras Steering committee, the > ones in the owners list and cvsextras group in the accounts system would > be eligible for voting since they have contributed atleast one package > to the Fedora pool. Does that address your concern? > > > I thought about just having that however I suppose I would like to see a wider spectrum of people on the board. What I mean by this is that say you have a representative from marketing, docs, triage and the other aspects. I nominate you :) While the package devs are important that's only one piece of the puzzle so to speak. As I said I'm not 100% sure on what I'm trying to get across but a 'balanced' board where a few people are able to contribute feedback. I'm sure this will be worked out anyway but yeah just a thought from my side. > > *offtopic* > > > > Is there a chance of having different members of the board speaking > > publicly? What I mean by this is having them with all their free > > time /sarcasm spend a few moments in putting a path in words of where > > fedora is heading? > > > > I quite like reading articles from leading people in the open source > > community where they talk about whats up and coming and how they are > > dealing with it. > > > > It seems like several *points* can be made. 1. Marketing their distro. > > 2. Advising the community what someones view is on future changes. > > > > Overall I liked it as well but by the end of the article it left me with > > a huge number of questions. > > You might get some insight from the Fedora Board meeting mins at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings. Some of us do write > articles thought this one isnt necessarily the kind of thing you are > looking for > > http://www.redhat.com/magazine/018apr06/features/fc5_overview/ > > > Rahul > > -- Reading some of the board meetings from that link. I would have to agree with what was said in May basically how to get more transparency to upcoming things. I suppose thats what I'm trying to get at. The write up is great but I would like to see I suppose what we are trying to achieve type of thing. What makes it hard is the fact that its all separate projects and we are talking about combining everything. I suppose in that article on osforge it was mentioned that within the next year Max would like to see such and such. While you can see that in board meetings or ascertain what the future is to bring, it would be great to create a talking point out in the community of what the future holds. I know what I'm saying is confusing and that Max and other representatives are busy, I suppose getting some form of information to flow in an article type situation out to people gives people ideas of what is going on. Not so much package A or package B but like conceptual type things. I know me personally I found that article brilliant more for the fact of the sections in Revising Development methods and the section lessons from other communities. Seeing what is trying to be achieved. I'll leave it alone after this post cause I don't seem to be explaining myself properly. Hopefully I've put across what I would like to see how it can be done I have no idea yet. I suppose just getting people to say I have this vision of the next Fedora or we are working on this and it'll probably take a year to get to. Regards, Marc From mspevack at redhat.com Thu May 25 13:36:45 2006 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 09:36:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora Board chair looks ahead In-Reply-To: <1148525252.3406.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1148117985.4310.431.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <1148436670.2390.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1148453511.4310.563.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <1148525252.3406.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: > I suppose in that article on osforge it was mentioned that within the > next year Max would like to see such and such. While you can see that > in board meetings or ascertain what the future is to bring, it would be > great to create a talking point out in the community of what the future > holds. > > I know what I'm saying is confusing and that Max and other > representatives are busy, I suppose getting some form of information to > flow in an article type situation out to people gives people ideas of > what is going on. I completely understand what you are saying. I will work hard to continue to give transparency to the work that is happening at the Board level, and also to make it as easy as possible for *everyone* to have a good picture of what the larger goals are. In terms of your other point of publicity, here's the more or less official line: We get a few interview requests from time to time. The ones that come directly to Red Hat usually are directed to me, and I have a responsibility to respond to those requests and give interviews, which is something that I enjoy -- though it's funny to read my own quotes afterward and see how they are interpreted. As for the other Board members -- not all of them want to speak publicly in interviews, etc. -- and that's ok with me. I don't expect that they all will, but I hope that those who want to speak publicly will do so. They're free to repsond to interview requests, give interviews, etc. We've all got a common message that we're trying to spread when we speak publicly about Fedora. And that message should come out *regardless* of who is doing the speaking. However, aside from that, I think it's incredibly interesting to hear the different perspectives that various Fedora folks have on topics. I could spend my whole day talking about Fedora and open source ideals with people -- that's a good use of *some* of my time but it would be a poor use of *all* of my time, as I would soon be fired for not accomplishing anything else! That's where the community comes in -- the rest of the Board, the Ambassadors, and you guys. --Max -- Max Spevack + http://people.redhat.com/mspevack/ + gpg key -- http://people.redhat.com/mspevack/mspevack.asc + fingerprint -- CD52 5E72 369B B00D 9E9A 773E 2FDB CB46 5A17 CF21 From mspevack at redhat.com Thu May 25 13:37:16 2006 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 09:37:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora Board chair looks ahead In-Reply-To: <1148436670.2390.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1148117985.4310.431.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <1148436670.2390.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 May 2006, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Overall I liked it as well but by the end of the article it left me with > a huge number of questions. such as? Let's talk! --Max -- Max Spevack + http://people.redhat.com/mspevack/ + gpg key -- http://people.redhat.com/mspevack/mspevack.asc + fingerprint -- CD52 5E72 369B B00D 9E9A 773E 2FDB CB46 5A17 CF21 From lxmaier at gmail.com Thu May 25 15:50:49 2006 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 11:50:49 -0400 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted Message-ID: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> The new logo guidelines are out! http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo Please be sure not to violate any of the guidelines. When you are designing wiki pages, please reference these common design elements instead fo uploading them each time, wasting disk space. Here is a page for that: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiElements Thanks, a -- Check out the new content on Fedora Project page! http://fedoraproject.org From syn_ted at otenet.gr Thu May 25 15:55:21 2006 From: syn_ted at otenet.gr (Theodoros Synodinos) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 18:55:21 +0300 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4475D369.8030007@otenet.gr> Thank you Alex. It is very good and very helpfull. O/H Alex Maier ??????: > The new logo guidelines are out! > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo > > Please be sure not to violate any of the guidelines. > > When you are designing wiki pages, please reference these common > design elements instead fo uploading them each time, wasting disk > space. Here is a page for that: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiElements > > > Thanks, > a -- Theodoros Synodinos syn_ted at otenet.gr (+30) 6948805973 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/TheodorosSynodinos From duffy at redhat.com Thu May 25 16:00:20 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 12:00:20 -0400 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4475D494.9090908@redhat.com> Hi Alex, Alex Maier wrote: > The new logo guidelines are out! > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo > > Please be sure not to violate any of the guidelines. Would it be ok to make a wikified version of the guidelines? (so you dont have to load the pdf?) ~m From gdk at redhat.com Thu May 25 16:12:55 2006 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 12:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <4475D494.9090908@redhat.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <4475D494.9090908@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 May 2006, [ISO-8859-1] M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hi Alex, > > Alex Maier wrote: > > The new logo guidelines are out! > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo > > > > Please be sure not to violate any of the guidelines. > > Would it be ok to make a wikified version of the guidelines? (so you dont have > to load the pdf?) > > ~m If anyone is capable of doing that properly, you are. :) --g --------------------------------------------------------------- Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Foundation || fedoraproject.org Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors --------------------------------------------------------------- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu May 25 16:18:23 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 21:48:23 +0530 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <4475D494.9090908@redhat.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <4475D494.9090908@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1148573903.4310.620.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 12:00 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hi Alex, > > Alex Maier wrote: > > The new logo guidelines are out! > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo > > > > Please be sure not to violate any of the guidelines. > > Would it be ok to make a wikified version of the guidelines? (so you dont have > to load the pdf?) Should be fine. The format doesnt affect the guidelines. Rahul From lxmaier at gmail.com Thu May 25 17:30:31 2006 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 13:30:31 -0400 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <4475D494.9090908@redhat.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <4475D494.9090908@redhat.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270605251030w41e42b31s7263bb2c74fb5170@mail.gmail.com> M?ir?n, Sure, go ahead, if you could do it, simply append it to the Logo Page (or create a page directly referenced from /Logo ) -- that would be most helpful! Thanks, a On 5/25/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hi Alex, > > Alex Maier wrote: > > The new logo guidelines are out! > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo > > > > Please be sure not to violate any of the guidelines. > > Would it be ok to make a wikified version of the guidelines? (so you dont have > to load the pdf?) > > ~m > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Check out the new content on Fedora Project page! http://fedoraproject.org From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Thu May 25 17:52:32 2006 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 12:52:32 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4475EEE0.8000303@prodigy.net.mx> Alex Maier escribi?: > The new logo guidelines are out! > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo > > Please be sure not to violate any of the guidelines. > > When you are designing wiki pages, please reference these common > design elements instead fo uploading them each time, wasting disk > space. Here is a page for that: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiElements > > > Thanks, > a Thank you for the guide lines, I'm the process of requesting the scalable versions of the images (see if this time I get them) From gdk at redhat.com Thu May 25 17:55:47 2006 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 13:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <4475EEE0.8000303@prodigy.net.mx> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <4475EEE0.8000303@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: You should be receiving them any minute now. :) --g --------------------------------------------------------------- Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Foundation || fedoraproject.org Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors --------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 25 May 2006, Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote: > Alex Maier escribi?: > > The new logo guidelines are out! > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo > > > > Please be sure not to violate any of the guidelines. > > > > When you are designing wiki pages, please reference these common > > design elements instead fo uploading them each time, wasting disk > > space. Here is a page for that: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiElements > > > > > > Thanks, > > a > Thank you for the guide lines, I'm the process of requesting the > scalable versions of the images (see if this time I get them) > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From stanfinley at comcast.net Thu May 25 18:27:41 2006 From: stanfinley at comcast.net (Stanton Finley) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 12:27:41 -0600 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1148581661.8993.9.camel@stantonfinley.org> On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 11:50 -0400, Alex Maier wrote: > The new logo guidelines are out! > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo > > Please be sure not to violate any of the guidelines. > > When you are designing wiki pages, please reference these common > design elements instead fo uploading them each time, wasting disk > space. Here is a page for that: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiElements > Maybe I missed it, but I can't find guidelines here that tell me if I'm allowed to use the logo on my Fedora installation guide at http://stanton-finley.net/fedora_core_5_installation_notes.html considering the fact that I provide instructions there for the installation of third party and otherwise proprietary software for Fedora Core that may or may not violate the GPL and that some people consider as tainting the purity of the OS. -- Stanton Finley http://stanton-finley.net/ From chasd at silveroaks.com Thu May 25 19:01:24 2006 From: chasd at silveroaks.com (chasd at silveroaks.com) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 14:01:24 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <20060525160013.19F8C734F7@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060525160013.19F8C734F7@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: > The new logo guidelines are out! > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo Yay ! I am glad to see the guidelines are simple, short, and easy to understand, at least from the perspective of someone used to looking at this type of document. Some comments: 1) The color of the guides used to delineate the clear space reserved around the graphics is difficult to read, and is too similar to the color choices of the graphics. As someone that has created bluelines in the past, I understand why light blue was chosen, but I think gray or black may have been a better choice. 2) I would recommend that acceptable background colors be specifically listed, and all others prohibited. This is common in other graphic standards documents I have been exposed to. I think the "whitelist" for backgrounds should be white or the listed PMS 2935. It isn't hard for me to close my eyes and imagine some rather distasteful or problematic background colors used, but maybe that's my problem. For example, the logo on a background of PMS 541 ( the dark blue ) would make the symbol almost disappear, but that is not prohibited by the document. The logo on black would lose the symbol in the darkness ( logotype in white ), although it would not be as bad as a background of PMS 541. Perhaps the clear space around the logo if it is placed on a non-acceptable background could have rounded edges similar to the backgrounds used in the usage guide. This would make a "badge" of sorts. Of course, a radius for the corners relating to the x-height shown would be a good idea. 3) The link for the recommended font should be clickable in the document. I understand that the document was exported out of InDesign 3.0.1, where that is not easy to do. I can do that for you if the originator of the document is not able to. 4) There is no other contact information in the document. I think there should be a URL listed where designer could go to check for the latest version of the document, or for links to the graphics files. PDF files tend to get stored locally on hard drives. Once the usage guide is separated from the web site, there are no internal references to make it back to from where the document came. 5) The RGB and CMYK colors should be listed as approximate, since how devices render those values varies considerably. However without using LAB values, what you have is probably the best you can do. Although many people assume all RGB values are specified on a scale of 0-255, there are several graphics programs that use 0-100. The scale of RGB values is not mentioned in the document. Curiously, if I open the SVG files in InkScape, not the originating program ( Illustrator 11 ), the color values are much different from those specified in the usage document ( in _all_ color spaces ). In my tests, if I used Illustrator 11 or 12, the colors are specified correctly ( but not in Illustrator 10 ). However, it is likely that someone will use InkScape ( or Xara LX ) to open these graphics files. Although I would expect there would be a huge scream about proprietary formats, I would recommend providing the original .ai files for those that _want_ to use Illustrator, .svg files exported from InkScape with correct color values for thse that want to use that program, and CMYK .eps files for use specifically in print. SVG is great, but it doesn't support CMYK very well ( if at all ), so if you need to distribute something specifically for print, EPS is the best format. You could have 2 PMS color EPS files as well. Many modern color laser printers support DeviceN color ( like at Kinko's ), so color matching is generally better now using PMS specification rather than CMYK, a switch from a few short years ago. 6) The recommended font could be shown in a range of sizes instead of just one size to better illustrate the feel of the font. 7) Will there be a layout file/template so that printed information distributed at LUG meeting would have a consistent look ? ( OOo, Scribus, InDesign, XPress ) A OOo Impress template ? Otherwise, great job ! > Please be sure not to violate any of the guidelines. Repercussions are ? I've got a big steel ruler, but it doesn't stretch that far . . . Thanks, Charles Dostale From gdk at redhat.com Thu May 25 19:10:27 2006 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 15:10:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: References: <20060525160013.19F8C734F7@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: Great feedback. > > Please be sure not to violate any of the guidelines. > > Repercussions are ? > I've got a big steel ruler, but it doesn't stretch that far . . . Let the punishment fit the crime. :) People who wish to use the logo still need to go through the approval process -- which will be much shorter, now that we've got turnkey guidelines. Should be processed every couple of days. One of the clauses for approval is revocability. That means, if you violate the guidelines outrageously and refuse to comply with reasonable requests to get the mark in line, we tell you to take it down. Go far enough down that line and lawyers would probably get involved, I suppose, but I can't see that happening more than once or twice. --g --------------------------------------------------------------- Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Foundation || fedoraproject.org Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors --------------------------------------------------------------- From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Thu May 25 21:05:31 2006 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 16:05:31 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: References: <20060525160013.19F8C734F7@hormel.redhat.com> <"bfe948c71a96b106a8 79963508d048d3"@silveroaks.com> Message-ID: <44761C1B.4080406@prodigy.net.mx> chasd at silveroaks.com escribi?: >> The new logo guidelines are out! >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo > > Yay ! > I am glad to see the guidelines are simple, short, and easy to > understand, at least from the perspective of someone used to looking > at this type of document. Some comments: > > 1) > The color of the guides used to delineate the clear space reserved > around the graphics is difficult to read, and is too similar to the > color choices of the graphics. As someone that has created bluelines > in the past, I understand why light blue was chosen, but I think gray > or black may have been a better choice. Couldn't agree more. > > 2) > I would recommend that acceptable background colors be specifically > listed, and all others prohibited. This is common in other graphic > standards documents I have been exposed to. I think the "whitelist" > for backgrounds should be white or the listed PMS 2935. It isn't hard > for me to close my eyes and imagine some rather distasteful or > problematic background colors used, but maybe that's my problem. For > example, the logo on a background of PMS 541 ( the dark blue ) would > make the symbol almost disappear, but that is not prohibited by the > document. The logo on black would lose the symbol in the darkness ( > logotype in white ), although it would not be as bad as a background > of PMS 541. > > Perhaps the clear space around the logo if it is placed on a > non-acceptable background could have rounded edges similar to the > backgrounds used in the usage guide. This would make a "badge" of > sorts. Of course, a radius for the corners relating to the x-height > shown would be a good idea. This is a very good idea. As I am designing some computer case stickers (I was originally thinking on leaving the background transparent) I came to realize there are quite a bit of black cases out there (including mine) which would render the symbol almost invisible. So a range of approved colors for the background is indeed a good idea. > > 5) > The RGB and CMYK colors should be listed as approximate, since how > devices render those values varies considerably. However without using > LAB values, what you have is probably the best you can do. > > Although many people assume all RGB values are specified on a scale of > 0-255, there are several graphics programs that use 0-100. The scale > of RGB values is not mentioned in the document. > > Curiously, if I open the SVG files in InkScape, not the originating > program ( Illustrator 11 ), the color values are much different from > those specified in the usage document ( in _all_ color spaces ). In my > tests, if I used Illustrator 11 or 12, the colors are specified > correctly ( but not in Illustrator 10 ). However, it is likely that > someone will use InkScape ( or Xara LX ) to open these graphics files. > Although I would expect there would be a huge scream about proprietary > formats, I would recommend providing the original .ai files for those > that _want_ to use Illustrator, .svg files exported from InkScape with > correct color values for thse that want to use that program, and CMYK > .eps files for use specifically in print. SVG is great, but it doesn't > support CMYK very well ( if at all ), so if you need to distribute > something specifically for print, EPS is the best format. You could > have 2 PMS color EPS files as well. Many modern color laser printers > support DeviceN color ( like at Kinko's ), so color matching is > generally better now using PMS specification rather than CMYK, a > switch from a few short years ago. I may be a total inexperienced user and complete amateur when it comes to graphics design and color theory, but unless I'm terribly wrong, that's why the Pantone? color numbers are used, isn't it?, I am using Inkscape, as I'm doing all in Linux with free software... One thing odd, though... As you say, CMYK values are rather odd, however the hexadecimal values and the RGBA values DO correspond to those in the PDF. I would assume there is a problem with CMYK support in Inkscape, which might be worth to report to the mailing list. I have had some trouble manipulating the files in Inkscape (only tried with the infinity symbol, though), but I had to resort to the XML editor to be able to select the different four elements of the drawing, when trying to select with the mouse, only a grouped selection is possible... I suppose this is what the original designer intended, and (compared to a "pure" SVG made with Inkscape), the file has two additional images (one in jpeg format and one in PGF [for whatever that is]) which I have been unable to export (they're only "visible" from the XML editor, or viewing the file with the cat or less commands). > > 7) > Will there be a layout file/template so that printed information > distributed at LUG meeting would have a consistent look ? > ( OOo, Scribus, InDesign, XPress ) > A OOo Impress template ? This is actually a very good idea indeed! > > Otherwise, great job ! > >> Please be sure not to violate any of the guidelines. > > Repercussions are ? > I've got a big steel ruler, but it doesn't stretch that far . . . > > Thanks, > > Charles Dostale From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Fri May 26 04:47:19 2006 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 23:47:19 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <"4 4 75EEE0.8000303"@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <44768857.1070201@prodigy.net.mx> Greg DeKoenigsberg escribi?: > You should be receiving them any minute now. :) > > --g > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Foundation || fedoraproject.org > Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Got them, thanks a LOT. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri May 26 14:45:23 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 20:15:23 +0530 Subject: Linus and Fedora Message-ID: <1148654723.4310.647.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Hi http://www.thenetworkadministrator.com/Linus%20Torvalds.htm " Of course, the "one distribution" has changed over time. It used to be SuSE, then when I switched to PowerPC it was YellowDog, then when Fedora did a PPC version I switched to that (so that I could have the same thing on my G5 desktop and my regular x86 laptop). So right now it happens to be FC5." Rahul From lxmaier at gmail.com Fri May 26 16:09:36 2006 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 12:09:36 -0400 Subject: Linus and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1148654723.4310.647.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> References: <1148654723.4310.647.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270605260909k6e5e6096hf49d95e4009d77da@mail.gmail.com> Hey, mind posting this on the Media Coverage page? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/PressArchive On 5/26/06, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > > http://www.thenetworkadministrator.com/Linus%20Torvalds.htm > > " > Of course, the "one distribution" has changed over time. It used to be > SuSE, then when I switched to PowerPC it was YellowDog, then when Fedora > did a PPC version I switched to that (so that I could have the same > thing on my G5 desktop and my regular x86 laptop). > > So right now it happens to be FC5." > > > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Check out the new content on Fedora Project page! http://fedoraproject.org From pjones at redhat.com Fri May 26 17:43:16 2006 From: pjones at redhat.com (Peter Jones) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 13:43:16 -0400 Subject: Linus and Fedora In-Reply-To: <7f617d270605260909k6e5e6096hf49d95e4009d77da@mail.gmail.com> References: <1148654723.4310.647.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <7f617d270605260909k6e5e6096hf49d95e4009d77da@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1148665397.6840.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 12:09 -0400, Alex Maier wrote: > Hey, mind posting this on the Media Coverage page? > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/PressArchive We probably shouldn't -- it's nice to have him as a user, but he doesn't really announce when he's changed his mind on which distro he's using, so it's _really_ easy to be citing old data. (to wit, he mailed me yesterday to say that he's using Ubuntu on his Mac Mini Core Duo box until I fix a grub bug he's hitting...) -- Peter From chasd at silveroaks.com Fri May 26 18:26:24 2006 From: chasd at silveroaks.com (chasd at silveroaks.com) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 13:26:24 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <20060526160007.CC303735F6@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060526160007.CC303735F6@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <24bde8748f5012aebe9746c118d5d42d@silveroaks.com> >>> Please be sure not to violate any of the guidelines. >> >> Repercussions are ? > > One of the clauses for approval is revocability. That means, if you > violate the guidelines outrageously and refuse to comply with > reasonable > requests to get the mark in line, we tell you to take it down. Go far > enough down that line and lawyers would probably get involved, I > suppose, > but I can't see that happening more than once or twice. Very reasonable. I think it is good that this short description is available for public reference. Thanks. Charles Dostale From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri May 26 19:31:17 2006 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 15:31:17 -0400 Subject: Linus and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1148665397.6840.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1148654723.4310.647.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <7f617d270605260909k6e5e6096hf49d95e4009d77da@mail.gmail.com> <1148665397.6840.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <604aa7910605261231w28e1f89eg26ae092561a7f79c@mail.gmail.com> On 5/26/06, Peter Jones wrote: > On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 12:09 -0400, Alex Maier wrote: > > Hey, mind posting this on the Media Coverage page? > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/PressArchive > > We probably shouldn't -- it's nice to have him as a user, but he doesn't > really announce when he's changed his mind on which distro he's using, > so it's _really_ easy to be citing old data. > > (to wit, he mailed me yesterday to say that he's using Ubuntu on his Mac > Mini Core Duo box until I fix a grub bug he's hitting...) Even in the article interview he says what he's using isn't that important, because the distros are relatively similar. He's just using fedora on his systems because he's lazy and this is the easiest way for him to get visual consistency across his machines. It could have been any other distro. He's actually saying that at this point the choice between distros mostly doesn't matter much. That isn't a particularly strong selling point, and I bet if anyone makes the effort to quote him out of context, he'll make a public statement disavowing whatever over-reaching implications that are attempted to hang on the segment of the interview where he says he's using fedora. Reading the whole interview.. he's saying the particular distro choice at this point isn't that important. I sentiment I'd agree with, and yet one I wouldn't suggest making a driving part of the Fedora marketing campaign. -jef"Use fedora on your ppc... because its already on your pc"spaleta From chasd at silveroaks.com Fri May 26 19:57:55 2006 From: chasd at silveroaks.com (chasd at silveroaks.com) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 14:57:55 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <20060526160007.CC303735F6@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060526160007.CC303735F6@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1dfec68e76b3aafd750e10e21563c4c8@silveroaks.com> > I may be a total inexperienced user and complete amateur when it comes > to graphics design and color theory, but unless I'm terribly wrong, > that's why the Pantone? color numbers are used, isn't it?, Without going into a long discussion on color reproduction, there are some bad things about specifying a color via the PMS system. Simply put, PMS was designed to use the Pantone inks only, so if you use any other color space ( let's say some obscure ones like RGB or CMYK ), you won't get what you specified. ( I'm surprised several people jumped up and down about the free font issue, but no one mentions using a proprietary, single vendor color system ;) Anyway, the big difficulty is getting various output devices to reliably match a PMS color. Most companies that print stuff work very hard to get that right behind the scenes, it doesn't always come easy. That said, PMS is considered a standard in the graphics/print industry, so using PMS to specify the colors is not really a wrong move. But it isn't a silver bullet that solves all color reproduction issues. > I am using > Inkscape, as I'm doing all in Linux with free software... One thing > odd, > though... As you say, CMYK values are rather odd, however the > hexadecimal values and the RGBA values DO correspond to those in the > PDF. The values reported by my version of Inkscape ( 0.43-3.fc5, PPC ) for PMS 2935 Hex : 0A57A4 RGB : R10, G87, B164 CMYK : C94, M47, Y0, K36 for PMS 541 Hex : 072B61 RGB : R6, G43, B97 CMYK : C93, M56, Y6, K62 I'd be interested if yours were different from these. Those hex values above are what is in the SVG, but they don't match the usage guide hex values. > I would assume there is a problem with CMYK support in Inkscape, > which might be worth to report to the mailing list. I mentioned this previously, the SVG spec doesn't support CMYK[1] or PMS, so Inkscape makes some guesses to convert to those color spaces. There is a way to save an SVG as an Inkscape-only SVG that maintains those values, but those values won't get used by another program that opens the file. Similar to the issue where Illustrator is able to get the colors right if it opens the SVG, but Inkscape can't. > I have had some > trouble manipulating the files in Inkscape (only tried with the > infinity > symbol, though), but I had to resort to the XML editor to be able to > select the different four elements of the drawing, when trying to > select > with the mouse, only a grouped selection is possible.. There are two selection tools in Inkscape, you might have been using the one that doesn't let you select objects within a group. I didn't have a problem. > I suppose this > is what the original designer intended, and (compared to a "pure" SVG > made with Inkscape), Yes, mere mortals should really not be poking around within these files, as per the guidelines they shouldn't be modified. I opened them because I wanted to verify how the files would open and work in several different graphics programs. > the file has two additional images (one in jpeg > format I believe that is a thumbnail used to preview files in the Adobe "Open File" dialog box. It's not useful for much else. > and one in PGF [for whatever that is]) which I have been unable > to export Those are binary structures ( CDATA ) that are used instead of ( or in addition to ) the SVG when the file is re-opened in Illustrator. If you use a text editor to cut out those entries, InkScape is still happy. [1] " All SVG colors are specified in the sRGB color space " ICC color profiles can be used to specify other color spaces. Charles Dostale From nman64 at n-man.com Fri May 26 20:06:07 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 15:06:07 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200605261506.11235.nman64@n-man.com> On Thursday 25 May 2006 10:50, "Alex Maier" wrote: > The new logo guidelines are out! > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo > > Please be sure not to violate any of the guidelines. > > When you are designing wiki pages, please reference these common > design elements instead fo uploading them each time, wasting disk > space. Here is a page for that: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiElements > > I have to be honest, I'm not impressed with the new header pieces. They don't fit in with the wiki's theme, they are completely irrelevant, and they waste a lot of space. On lower resolutions, a visitor might have to scroll most of a page to get to any useful content. We need artwork that is consistent, lightweight, and can be worked into the current themes. If we really want context-sensitive artwork, we should try to work out a way to include that artwork as part of the wiki header, where it could fill some of the already-wasted space instead of wasting even more. Another consideration is in our ability to produce matching pieces, such as when a new project is formed. Having to ask a particular person to create a new piece using his proprietary software is only going to cause problems in the future. I'm not saying that these pieces don't look nice, they just don't fit. Talking with other members of the Fedora Artwork team, I've found that I'm not alone in these opinions. I think that this artwork needs more review before it is implemented throughout the wiki. Also, before we go into too much effort for this, is there a reason we need artistic headers that are unique for each project? While some of the project pages lack style, many feature fancy tables and a banner formed from the new logo, and I think those work nicely. Matt did a great job on the new logo, and these new pieces look nice, but we should involve the community in reviewing this new artwork and should give the Artwork team a chance to do better before we start widely publishing this artwork with only a handful of reviews. It is haphazard to immediately publish such pieces without giving the Artwork and Website teams a chance to provide feedback. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lxmaier at gmail.com Fri May 26 21:15:01 2006 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 17:15:01 -0400 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <200605261506.11235.nman64@n-man.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <200605261506.11235.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <7f617d270605261415j6da290b1hfec0e171d25cb3d0@mail.gmail.com> Yes indeed the headers were not designed to perfectly fit in the wiki as it is now, but with the wiki redesign and migration in mind, please see the PSD layout delivered with further design improvements to make the web pages look and feel closer to the Fedora GUI. The Wiki headers were designed to be used in the context of the above, but also go well with our current blue color scheme in the fedora theme. If the community likes them, let the community use them. I hope however that one day we will have a new theme which makes use of--if not all but at least some--design elements provided by Capstrat, the designers of the new logo. Cheers, a On 5/26/06, Patrick W. Barnes wrote: > On Thursday 25 May 2006 10:50, "Alex Maier" wrote: > > The new logo guidelines are out! > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo > > > > Please be sure not to violate any of the guidelines. > > > > When you are designing wiki pages, please reference these common > > design elements instead fo uploading them each time, wasting disk > > space. Here is a page for that: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiElements > > > > > > I have to be honest, I'm not impressed with the new header pieces. They don't > fit in with the wiki's theme, they are completely irrelevant, and they waste > a lot of space. On lower resolutions, a visitor might have to scroll most of > a page to get to any useful content. > > We need artwork that is consistent, lightweight, and can be worked into the > current themes. If we really want context-sensitive artwork, we should try > to work out a way to include that artwork as part of the wiki header, where > it could fill some of the already-wasted space instead of wasting even more. > Another consideration is in our ability to produce matching pieces, such as > when a new project is formed. Having to ask a particular person to create a > new piece using his proprietary software is only going to cause problems in > the future. > > I'm not saying that these pieces don't look nice, they just don't fit. > Talking with other members of the Fedora Artwork team, I've found that I'm > not alone in these opinions. I think that this artwork needs more review > before it is implemented throughout the wiki. Also, before we go into too > much effort for this, is there a reason we need artistic headers that are > unique for each project? While some of the project pages lack style, many > feature fancy tables and a banner formed from the new logo, and I think those > work nicely. > > Matt did a great job on the new logo, and these new pieces look nice, but we > should involve the community in reviewing this new artwork and should give > the Artwork team a chance to do better before we start widely publishing this > artwork with only a handful of reviews. It is haphazard to immediately > publish such pieces without giving the Artwork and Website teams a chance to > provide feedback. > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > nman64 at n-man.com > > http://www.n-man.com/ > > LinkedIn: > http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 > > Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! > http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ > -- > > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > -- Check out the new content on Fedora Project page! http://fedoraproject.org From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Fri May 26 22:57:04 2006 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 17:57:04 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <1dfec68e76b3aafd750e10e21563c4c8@silveroaks.com> References: <20060526160007.CC303735F6@hormel.redhat.com> <"1dfec68e76b3aafd75 0e10e21563c4c8"@silveroaks.com> Message-ID: <447787C0.9000603@prodigy.net.mx> chasd at silveroaks.com escribi?: > The values reported by my version of Inkscape ( 0.43-3.fc5, PPC ) > > for PMS 2935 > Hex : 0A57A4 > RGB : R10, G87, B164 > CMYK : C94, M47, Y0, K36 > > for PMS 541 > Hex : 072B61 > RGB : R6, G43, B97 > CMYK : C93, M56, Y6, K62 > > I'd be interested if yours were different from these. > Those hex values above are what is in the SVG, but they don't match > the usage guide hex values. > >> I would assume there is a problem with CMYK support in Inkscape, >> which might be worth to report to the mailing list. > > I mentioned this previously, the SVG spec doesn't support CMYK[1] or > PMS, so Inkscape makes some guesses to convert to those color spaces. > There is a way to save an SVG as an Inkscape-only SVG that maintains > those values, but those values won't get used by another program that > opens the file. Similar to the issue where Illustrator is able to get > the colors right if it opens the SVG, but Inkscape can't. Indeed the problem with CMYK in Inkscape seems to be that as the format does not support other color schemes than RGBA. Which ends up in the problems with CMYK and HSL, as the program will dynamicall convert between RGBA and CMYK/HSL as you move the handlers. So the problem is a format problem and not a program problem, per se... Which pretty much ties our hands to proprietary software and formats. Reading through some file format specifications from the W3C (the png spec[1], for instance) says that the CMYK color space is too device-dependent to be useful as portable image representation... I don't fully understand this. I thought RGBA was the one device-dependant, which had a great deal of variation from device to device... This whole thing confuses the heck out o me, as I'm only an amateur with this stuff (who would have thought that pretty graphics were filled with bureaucracy and XYZ standards?) Anyway, that's the state of things, and if I want to play in this field, I have to abide by these rules... [1]http://www.w3.org/TR/PNG-Rationale.html From hugo at devin.com.br Fri May 26 23:10:35 2006 From: hugo at devin.com.br (Hugo Cisneiros) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 20:10:35 -0300 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <200605261506.11235.nman64@n-man.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <200605261506.11235.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <200605262010.35756.hugo@devin.com.br> On Friday 26 May 2006 17:06, Patrick W. Barnes wrote: > I have to be honest, I'm not impressed with the new header pieces. They > don't fit in with the wiki's theme, they are completely irrelevant, and > they waste a lot of space. On lower resolutions, a visitor might have to > scroll most of a page to get to any useful content. Me neither. > We need artwork that is consistent, lightweight, and can be worked into the > current themes. If we really want context-sensitive artwork, we should try > to work out a way to include that artwork as part of the wiki header, where > it could fill some of the already-wasted space instead of wasting even > more. Another consideration is in our ability to produce matching pieces, > such as when a new project is formed. Having to ask a particular person to > create a new piece using his proprietary software is only going to cause > problems in the future. One day before the new logo guidelines came, I created a new compatible logo to put in our Wiki, to overwrite the current old one. This new "temporary" logo uses the new Fedora logo instead of the generic one currently in Wiki. They complained that the Logo isn't following the guidelines, but didn't say what guideline it wasn't following. Looking at the guidelines I found out that I was not following the "Clear Space" rule. Ok, I gave up, IMO there was no good way to create a new logo for Wiki and follow this guideline. Looking today at the proprietary image format about a new Wiki design, I realized that the design itself isn't following the "clear space" guideline too. Ironic. So I suggested (and I'm bringing this discussion here) to extend the Logo Guidelines to create Sub-Projects Logos, like for Fedora Extras, Fedora Documentation, Fedora (Brazil), Fedora (France), and so on. The current guidelines does not allow us to do this in a pretty way because of the "clear space" rule. What do you think? > I'm not saying that these pieces don't look nice, they just don't fit. > Talking with other members of the Fedora Artwork team, I've found that I'm > not alone in these opinions. I think that this artwork needs more review > before it is implemented throughout the wiki. Also, before we go into too > much effort for this, is there a reason we need artistic headers that are > unique for each project? While some of the project pages lack style, many > feature fancy tables and a banner formed from the new logo, and I think > those work nicely. These WikiElements are pretty but I agree with Patrick, they're too big and not suitable (just my opinion). > Matt did a great job on the new logo, and these new pieces look nice, but > we should involve the community in reviewing this new artwork and should > give the Artwork team a chance to do better before we start widely > publishing this artwork with only a handful of reviews. It is haphazard to > immediately publish such pieces without giving the Artwork and Website > teams a chance to provide feedback. +1 > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > nman64 at n-man.com -- []'s Eitch http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/ "Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Fri May 26 21:06:13 2006 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 16:06:13 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <1dfec68e76b3aafd750e10e21563c4c8@silveroaks.com> References: <20060526160007.CC303735F6@hormel.redhat.com> <"1dfec68e76b3aafd75 0e10e21563c4c8"@silveroaks.com> Message-ID: <44776DC5.6040006@prodigy.net.mx> chasd at silveroaks.com escribi?: >> I may be a total inexperienced user and complete amateur when it comes >> to graphics design and color theory, but unless I'm terribly wrong, >> that's why the Pantone? color numbers are used, isn't it?, > > Without going into a long discussion on color reproduction, there are > some bad things about specifying a color via the PMS system. Simply > put, PMS was designed to use the Pantone inks only, so if you use any > other color space ( let's say some obscure ones like RGB or CMYK ), > you won't get what you specified. ( I'm surprised several people > jumped up and down about the free font issue, but no one mentions > using a proprietary, single vendor color system ;) Anyway, the big > difficulty is getting various output devices to reliably match a PMS > color. Most companies that print stuff work very hard to get that > right behind the scenes, it doesn't always come easy. > > That said, PMS is considered a standard in the graphics/print > industry, so using PMS to specify the colors is not really a wrong > move. But it isn't a silver bullet that solves all color reproduction > issues. I understand about this, but the problem is that printing houses don't. They mostly use PMS and especially down here (Mexico City) it is a problem. Even Adobe native formats have problems as most print houses use Corel tools. > >> I am using >> Inkscape, as I'm doing all in Linux with free software... One thing odd, >> though... As you say, CMYK values are rather odd, however the >> hexadecimal values and the RGBA values DO correspond to those in the >> PDF. > > The values reported by my version of Inkscape ( 0.43-3.fc5, PPC ) > > for PMS 2935 > Hex : 0A57A4 > RGB : R10, G87, B164 > CMYK : C94, M47, Y0, K36 > > for PMS 541 > Hex : 072B61 > RGB : R6, G43, B97 > CMYK : C93, M56, Y6, K62 > > I'd be interested if yours were different from these. > Those hex values above are what is in the SVG, but they don't match > the usage guide hex values. Inkscape 0.43-3.fc5, x86_64. The infinity symbol freshly opened, I get the following values (from RGBA to Hex): Background (bubble) RGBA: 5 43 97 255 HSL: 152 230 51 255 CYMK: 97 55 0 62 100 Hex: 002b61ff Infinity symbol: RGBA: 10 87 164 255 HSL: 149 226 87 255 CYMK: 95 48 0 36 100 Hex: 0856a4ff Freedom "f": RGBA: 255 255 255 255 HSL: 0 0 255 255 CYMK: 0 0 0 100 Hex: ffffffff > >> I would assume there is a problem with CMYK support in Inkscape, >> which might be worth to report to the mailing list. > > I mentioned this previously, the SVG spec doesn't support CMYK[1] or > PMS, so Inkscape makes some guesses to convert to those color spaces. > There is a way to save an SVG as an Inkscape-only SVG that maintains > those values, but those values won't get used by another program that > opens the file. Similar to the issue where Illustrator is able to get > the colors right if it opens the SVG, but Inkscape can't. Good point... I was thinking on raising this discussion at the Inkscape mailing list and see what does the Inkscape community has to say about this situation, or if it is a bug in the current implementation of CMYK scheme or what. But since the format as such does not support the CMYK color scheme, it may very well be traced down to a simple conversion error in the CMYK algorithm used by Inkscape. > >> I have had some >> trouble manipulating the files in Inkscape (only tried with the infinity >> symbol, though), but I had to resort to the XML editor to be able to >> select the different four elements of the drawing, when trying to select >> with the mouse, only a grouped selection is possible.. > > There are two selection tools in Inkscape, you might have been using > the one that doesn't let you select objects within a group. I didn't > have a problem. I'm suing the F1 selection tool, and you are right... If chose the node editor, I can indeed select individual objects within the global group. Thanks for the tip! > >> I suppose this >> is what the original designer intended, and (compared to a "pure" SVG >> made with Inkscape), > > Yes, mere mortals should really not be poking around within these > files, as per the guidelines they shouldn't be modified. I opened them > because I wanted to verify how the files would open and work in > several different graphics programs. That's what I thought, a scalable-not-to-be-edited version (editable, but should not be edited at all). Still I found have some questions about background color and the symbol... As I noticed in the default splash screen, boot screen and wallpaper: The infinity symbol has both a highlight and a white border to prevent it be lost in the darker blue background. My question would be: For darker backgrounds, could we add a light/white border to better outline the symbol so it won't be lost and keep deffinition? That would be editing the symbol, true, but it would also make it more visible (or simply visible). > >> the file has two additional images (one in jpeg >> format > > I believe that is a thumbnail used to preview files in the Adobe "Open > File" dialog box. It's not useful for much else. Ok, that explains it. Thanks. > >> and one in PGF [for whatever that is]) which I have been unable >> to export > > Those are binary structures ( CDATA ) that are used instead of ( or in > addition to ) the SVG when the file is re-opened in Illustrator. > If you use a text editor to cut out those entries, InkScape is still > happy. But that would be editing the original files, which I thought was strictly forbidden by the guidelines... Even though it would make Inkscape happy, that would mean altering the file. If this action was officially endorsed, then I would do it, or better still, let those who control the graphics politics for Fedora, handle this, remove those extra instructions, and may be provide two versions of the files: One in native Adobe format, and one in "pure" SVG format. > > [1] > > " All SVG colors are specified in the sRGB color space " > ICC color profiles can be used to specify other color spaces. > > Charles Dostale From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat May 27 07:52:16 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 13:22:16 +0530 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <7f617d270605261415j6da290b1hfec0e171d25cb3d0@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <200605261506.11235.nman64@n-man.com> <7f617d270605261415j6da290b1hfec0e171d25cb3d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1148716336.4310.706.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 17:15 -0400, Alex Maier wrote: > Yes indeed the headers were not designed to perfectly fit in the wiki > as it is now, but with the wiki redesign and migration in mind, please > see the PSD layout delivered with further design improvements to make > the web pages look and feel closer to the Fedora GUI. Where is the PSD layout delivered? Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat May 27 07:54:49 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 13:24:49 +0530 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <200605262010.35756.hugo@devin.com.br> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <200605261506.11235.nman64@n-man.com> <200605262010.35756.hugo@devin.com.br> Message-ID: <1148716489.4310.709.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 20:10 -0300, Hugo Cisneiros wrote: > On Friday 26 May 2006 17:06, Patrick W. Barnes wrote: > > I have to be honest, I'm not impressed with the new header pieces. They > > don't fit in with the wiki's theme, they are completely irrelevant, and > > they waste a lot of space. On lower resolutions, a visitor might have to > > scroll most of a page to get to any useful content. > > Me neither. > > > We need artwork that is consistent, lightweight, and can be worked into the > > current themes. If we really want context-sensitive artwork, we should try > > to work out a way to include that artwork as part of the wiki header, where > > it could fill some of the already-wasted space instead of wasting even > > more. Another consideration is in our ability to produce matching pieces, > > such as when a new project is formed. Having to ask a particular person to > > create a new piece using his proprietary software is only going to cause > > problems in the future. > > One day before the new logo guidelines came, I created a new compatible logo > to put in our Wiki, to overwrite the current old one. This new "temporary" > logo uses the new Fedora logo instead of the generic one currently in Wiki. > > They complained that the Logo isn't following the guidelines, but didn't say > what guideline it wasn't following. Looking at the guidelines I found out > that I was not following the "Clear Space" rule. Ok, I gave up, IMO there was > no good way to create a new logo for Wiki and follow this guideline. > > Looking today at the proprietary image format about a new Wiki design, I > realized that the design itself isn't following the "clear space" guideline > too. Ironic. > > So I suggested (and I'm bringing this discussion here) to extend the Logo > Guidelines to create Sub-Projects Logos, like for Fedora Extras, Fedora > Documentation, Fedora (Brazil), Fedora (France), and so on. The current > guidelines does not allow us to do this in a pretty way because of the "clear > space" rule. What do you think? Brand dilution is a bad idea especially when the division is based on region. Rahul From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Sat May 27 09:50:22 2006 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 04:50:22 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <1148716336.4310.706.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <"2 0 0605261506.11235.nman64"@n-man.com> <"7f617d270605261415j6da290b1hfec0e171d2 5c b3d0"@mail.gmail.com> <1148716336.4310.706.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Message-ID: <447820DE.8050304@prodigy.net.mx> Rahul Sundaram escribi?: > On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 17:15 -0400, Alex Maier wrote: > >> Yes indeed the headers were not designed to perfectly fit in the wiki >> as it is now, but with the wiki redesign and migration in mind, please >> see the PSD layout delivered with further design improvements to make >> the web pages look and feel closer to the Fedora GUI. >> > > Where is the PSD layout delivered? > > Rahul > From the main http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo site, specifically from this tarball: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=FedoraCommonGraphs.tar.gz From guillermo.gomez at gmail.com Sat May 27 11:32:32 2006 From: guillermo.gomez at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?Ikd1aWxsZXJtbyBHw7NtZXogUy4i?=) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 07:32:32 -0400 Subject: fedora-ve logo? Message-ID: <447838D0.9050204@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, we have a contributor who posted a modified logo with fedora-ve text in it. Is it valid to do such modifications? I dont want to punish him but certainly he has a point on localizing the logo somehow. What's the policy in this case? To encourgae him to make it "the right" or not to modify it at all ? Guillermo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEeDjP0XfK1zIFpGQRAn9AAJsE/k+T4JWnkTckptKETbvUpaZ6XwCgl6Af xYfj047S60uuVk0jynS4UQk= =JU+T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nman64 at n-man.com Sat May 27 11:54:04 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 06:54:04 -0500 Subject: fedora-ve logo? In-Reply-To: <447838D0.9050204@gmail.com> References: <447838D0.9050204@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200605270654.06757.nman64@n-man.com> On Saturday 27 May 2006 06:32, "Guillermo G?mez S." wrote: > Hi, we have a contributor who posted a modified logo with fedora-ve > text in it. > Is it valid to do such modifications? I dont want to punish him but > certainly he has a point on localizing the logo somehow. > What's the policy in this case? To encourgae him to make it "the > right" or not to modify it at all ? > Any modifications must follow the guidelines outlined at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo The PDF file listed there details how graphics can be created, including specifications for colors, fonts and spacing. Once you have prepared your modified form, submit it to logo at fedoraproject.org to get usage permission. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat May 27 11:56:34 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 17:26:34 +0530 Subject: fedora-ve logo? In-Reply-To: <447838D0.9050204@gmail.com> References: <447838D0.9050204@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1148730995.4310.733.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Sat, 2006-05-27 at 07:32 -0400, "Guillermo G?mez S." wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, we have a contributor who posted a modified logo with fedora-ve > text in it. > Is it valid to do such modifications? I dont want to punish him but > certainly he has a point on localizing the logo somehow. > What's the policy in this case? To encourgae him to make it "the > right" or not to modify it at all ? Not modifying it would make things easier but if any modification is being done, kindly ensure that it follows the guidelines specificied. You can request usage permission by mailing logo at fedoraproject.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo Rahul From chasd at silveroaks.com Sat May 27 16:06:37 2006 From: chasd at silveroaks.com (chasd at silveroaks.com) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 11:06:37 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <20060527094640.24C03730D1@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060527094640.24C03730D1@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <386639236a8a453767ca8f5c6f2bc16e@silveroaks.com> > Indeed the problem with CMYK in Inkscape seems to be that as the format > does not support other color schemes than RGBA. Which ends up in the > problems with CMYK and HSL, as the program will dynamicall convert > between RGBA and CMYK/HSL as you move the handlers. So the problem is a > format problem and not a program problem, per se... If there was a standard way to map from one color space to another that all programs could use, then it isn't a program problem either. Wait, there is a standard way to do that ( color management using ICC profiles ). However, as I mentioned in a previous post, there are problems with that solution. > Which pretty much > ties our hands to proprietary software and formats. No, as I mentioned in a previous post, EPS has wonderful support for CMYK. It is not a proprietary format, the specification is open. Several programs read and/or write EPS. This is why I recommended supplying different formats specific to the end use instead of just one format that essentially only covers one use case. There are Linux graphics tools that will deal with EPS ( Inkscape can export ). However because at my job I do not use Linux-based graphics tools very often, I can't rattle off all the programs and how well they support EPS. PDF could work too, many layout programs can use PDF interchangeably with EPS. It must be a _vector_ format, not a pixel format like PNG, TIFF, or JPEG. > Reading through some file format specifications from the W3C (the png > spec[1], for instance) says that the CMYK color space is too > device-dependent to be useful as portable image representation... I > don't fully understand this. I thought RGBA was the one > device-dependant, which had a great deal of variation from device to > device... This is true of _any_ device color space. I personally think there is greater variation in RGB color than CMYK ( even if the PNG spec writers think the opposite ). Any time you adjust the brightness, contrast, or any other setting on your monitor, you are actually changing the colormetric value of all the colors displayed. Beyond the capabilities of each monitor to display a given color, each end users' adjustment of that monitor changes the color too. That is a circus of variety. As a further example, the color space of standard def NTSC television signals is different from the color space for HD television. That means the RGB values of a graphic will appear different when shown in standard def verses high def, unless you take precautions to keep the color consistent. > This whole thing confuses the heck out o me, as I'm only an > amateur with this stuff Um, believe me, a lot of professionally trained designers are confused too. Good designers are aware of the issues and problems associated with reproducing a specific color on different devices, and work hard to make sure the colors in an identity are consistent across all media - web, print, TV, even ads on the side of a bus. > (who would have thought that pretty graphics > were filled with bureaucracy and XYZ standards?) Well, me ;) > Anyway, that's the > state of things, and if I want to play in this field, I have to abide > by > these rules... > > [1]http://www.w3.org/TR/PNG-Rationale.html It would be better to look at this site- Charles Dostale From chasd at silveroaks.com Sat May 27 16:16:09 2006 From: chasd at silveroaks.com (chasd at silveroaks.com) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 11:16:09 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <20060527094640.24C03730D1@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060527094640.24C03730D1@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <7fdaaf53a73bfc39bbacb087cfef7ab3@silveroaks.com> > From: Hugo Cisneiros > They complained that the Logo isn't following the guidelines, but > didn't say > what guideline it wasn't following. Looking at the guidelines I found > out > that I was not following the "Clear Space" rule. Ok, I gave up, IMO > there was > no good way to create a new logo for Wiki and follow this guideline. Identity guidelines can be difficult to follow in some cases, but there is usually a workable solution. It is possible your original layout concept did not take the guidelines into account, and retrofitting the guidelines into that concept was not workable. That doesn't mean that there is _no_ possible solution, likely just no solution from your original starting point. Perhaps a fresh start on a different layout would produce a workable solution. > Looking today at the proprietary image format about a new Wiki design, > I > realized that the design itself isn't following the "clear space" > guideline > too. Ironic. I did not have time to look at that layout. If this is true that does set a bad president. > So I suggested (and I'm bringing this discussion here) to extend the > Logo > Guidelines to create Sub-Projects Logos, like for Fedora Extras, Fedora > Documentation, Fedora (Brazil), Fedora (France), and so on. The current > guidelines does not allow us to do this in a pretty way because of the > "clear > space" rule. What do you think? No. With identity management, there can be only One True Way. Variation is confusing and dilutes the identity as one other poster already mentioned. Charles Dostale System Admin - Silver Oaks Communications http://www.silveroaks.com/ 824 17th Street, Moline IL 61265 From chasd at silveroaks.com Sat May 27 16:41:11 2006 From: chasd at silveroaks.com (chasd at silveroaks.com) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 11:41:11 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <20060527094640.24C03730D1@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060527094640.24C03730D1@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <91ad754bf6d019c1e3665fc611a0dec2@silveroaks.com> > From: Gain Paolo Mureddu : > I understand about this, but the problem is that printing houses don't. > They mostly use PMS and especially down here (Mexico City) it is a > problem. As someone that has been both a buyer of printing services and a provider of printing services, the printer does not drive the accuracy of color reproduction, the designer does. Some designers are willing to accept what color accuracy a given printer provides by default. It is my opinion that is a terrible thing to do. The print buyer is in a position to refuse a job if color accuracy is not acceptable. The tools used are not an excuse for poor project management. > Even Adobe native formats have problems I have never personally had a problem with the native formats of Adobe graphic tools in over 16 years using them. > as most print houses > use Corel tools. That is unfortunate, Corel tools are considered second rate in the graphics industry for a reason. That is not to say you can't do good design with Corel tools, or that they always cause problems. It is more difficult to get consistent work from Corel tools in my experience. > Inkscape 0.43-3.fc5, x86_64. > > The infinity symbol freshly opened, I get the following values (from > RGBA to Hex): > Background (bubble) > > RGBA: 5 43 97 255 > HSL: 152 230 51 255 > CYMK: 97 55 0 62 100 > Hex: 002b61ff > > Infinity symbol: > > RGBA: 10 87 164 255 > HSL: 149 226 87 255 > CYMK: 95 48 0 36 100 > Hex: 0856a4ff > > Freedom "f": > > RGBA: 255 255 255 255 > HSL: 0 0 255 255 > CYMK: 0 0 0 100 > Hex: ffffffff Hmm, interesting. I know that Inkscape pulls in a color management library when it is installed, perhaps there is a difference in the configuration of that system between our two computers. I don't have the time to research that right now. > Still I found have some questions > about background color and the symbol... As I noticed in the default > splash screen, boot screen and wallpaper: The infinity symbol has both > a > highlight and a white border to prevent it be lost in the darker blue > background. This is a separate issue from the format in which the logo is supplied. > My question would be: For darker backgrounds, could we add a > light/white border to better outline the symbol so it won't be lost and > keep deffinition? That would be editing the symbol, true, but it would > also make it more visible (or simply visible). Doing that is technically against the usage guide. That is why I would like to have only certain backgrounds be acceptable. Alternatively, it should be specified how to handle backgrounds that can make the logo unreadable, or a special logo that has a white outline or glow built-in. >> Those are binary structures ( CDATA ) that are used instead of ( or in >> addition to ) the SVG when the file is re-opened in Illustrator. >> If you use a text editor to cut out those entries, InkScape is still >> happy. > But that would be editing the original files, which I thought was > strictly forbidden by the guidelines... Yes, I mentioned that not to suggest you do that, but to illustrate that the CDATA is not a necessary part of the file to maintain its compatibility with the SVG spec. > let those who > control the graphics politics for Fedora, handle this, remove those > extra instructions, and may be provide two versions of the files: One > in > native Adobe format, and one in "pure" SVG format. Yes, I agree. Because the SVG was created in a way that included a significant amount of data extraneous to the SVG specification, it would be better for that file to be "cleaned up" for distribution. Native program files would be a good idea too, as well as formats that are better for some other common use cases, like EPS for print. Charles Dostale System Admin - Silver Oaks Communications http://www.silveroaks.com/ 824 17th Street, Moline IL 61265 From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Sat May 27 17:22:25 2006 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 12:22:25 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <91ad754bf6d019c1e3665fc611a0dec2@silveroaks.com> References: <20060527094640.24C03730D1@hormel.redhat.com> <"91ad754bf6d019c1e3 665fc611a0dec2"@silveroaks.com> Message-ID: <44788AD1.4020202@prodigy.net.mx> chasd at silveroaks.com escribi?: > Yes, I agree. Because the SVG was created in a way that included a > significant amount of data extraneous to the SVG specification, it > would be better for that file to be "cleaned up" for distribution. > Native program files would be a good idea too, as well as formats that > are better for some other common use cases, like EPS for print. > > > Charles Dostale > System Admin - Silver Oaks Communications > http://www.silveroaks.com/ > 824 17th Street, Moline IL 61265 Speaking of print... Do you have information (besides the one at their site) when will the SVGP spec will be ratified and implemented? That would make things MUCH easier to handle the open format SVG for printing and as there are SVG editors by following this spec the issues about color management and accuracy will be no more... But until the spec is ratified and starts to be used it is not going to happen. Are there any programs to manipulate EPS? I mean I know encapsulated postscript or PDF are a better way to handle printing, but how would you adjust color (to CMYK for instance) with those formats? From duffy at redhat.com Sun May 28 06:27:26 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 02:27:26 -0400 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <7fdaaf53a73bfc39bbacb087cfef7ab3@silveroaks.com> References: <20060527094640.24C03730D1@hormel.redhat.com> <7fdaaf53a73bfc39bbacb087cfef7ab3@silveroaks.com> Message-ID: <447942CE.6030009@redhat.com> Hi Charles, >> From: Hugo Cisneiros >> So I suggested (and I'm bringing this discussion here) to extend the Logo >> Guidelines to create Sub-Projects Logos, like for Fedora Extras, Fedora >> Documentation, Fedora (Brazil), Fedora (France), and so on. The current >> guidelines does not allow us to do this in a pretty way because of the >> "clear >> space" rule. What do you think? > chasd at silveroaks.com wrote: > No. > With identity management, there can be only One True Way. Variation is > confusing and dilutes the identity as one other poster already mentioned. Actually, this is *not* true with respect to what Hugo is suggesting. For example: http://www.rpi.edu/dept/NewsComm/graphics/downloads/pdfs/toolkit.pdf Look at pages 8 & 9 of the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute brand book. A university is a large organization made up of many sub-organizations - schools, departments, research labs, etc. RPI's brand guidelines (as most universities' and large corporations') recognize that they must apply to many disparate sub-organizations that share the same 'brand' and have guidelines for incorparating the use of their logo for those sub-organizations. This concept of 'sub-logo' guidelines actually not that uncommon in brand design, and it would be nice if such sub-logo guidelines could be specified for Fedora's logo. I think Hugo's idea is a great one. These guidelines could be used for Fedora groups in specific locations, as Hugo cited, and also for Fedora projects, e.g. "Fedora Documentation Team," "Fedora Marketing Team," etc. Fwiw, I think Diana's banner for the wiki using the new logo is an excellent look for such a sub-logo [1]. I do understand that the 'sub-logo' logotype is the same as the 'fedora' logotype, which is proprietary and would make it costly for would-be contributors to design these logos for their sub-organizations. So perhaps the URW font (I don't remember the name offhand) could be used with the same treatment (maybe a bit lighter blue) that Diana used. [1] http://people.redhat.com/dfong/flogo/newHeaders.htm ~m From duffy at redhat.com Sun May 28 06:59:12 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 02:59:12 -0400 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <200605262010.35756.hugo@devin.com.br> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <200605261506.11235.nman64@n-man.com> <200605262010.35756.hugo@devin.com.br> Message-ID: <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> Hi Hugo, Hugo Cisneiros wrote: > Looking today at the proprietary image format about a new Wiki design, I > realized that the design itself isn't following the "clear space" guideline > too. Ironic. To be fair about the PSD format wiki design mockups.... You need to show/hide layers in that PSD to be able to view the entire design. An open format that Photoshop can actually handle like PNG wouldn't work, right, since it's flat[1]? The GIMP opens the PSD and is able to display these layers, no problem. Since they were created in Adobe Photoshop (I'm assuming)... Photoshop doesn't exactly allow you to save as or export to XCF (the GIMP's native format.) I absolutely agree, though, that we should be using open formats whenever possible (the 'dogfood' principle [2])!! How can we expect open formats to flourish if *we*, of all people, don't use them? Anyhow, I uploaded an XCF version [3] of the design. :) ~m [1] Well ok, so Macromedia Fireworks actually has add-on layering support for PNGs, but I'm pretty sure this isn't portable to other programs. [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eat_one's_own_dog_food [3] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiElements?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Fedora_Wiki_page_design.xcf From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Sun May 28 07:28:51 2006 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gain Paolo Mureddu) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 02:28:51 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <"2 0 0605261506.11235.nman64"@n-man.com> <200605262010.35756.hugo@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44795133.7040109@prodigy.net.mx> M?ir?n Duffy escribi?: > > > I absolutely agree, though, that we should be using open formats > whenever possible (the 'dogfood' principle [2])!! How can we expect > open formats to flourish if *we*, of all people, don't use them? *Exactly*... I can understand that the proprietary programs may have features that the Open Source programs still don't (see the other discussion about SVG and CMYK support for printing or a suitable way to print SVGs), but it is also my belief that we should be encouraging the use of Open file formats and when a [needed] feature is not supported, see how to implement something similar or the same functionality to Open Source programs (or let the developers know, in the best Open Source spirit). And it usually is at times like these when we hit the brick wall and realize what has to still be done to fully be an alternative, currently a number of Linux distributions can be a viable alternative, but not yet a full alternative, and we're bound to not cover all possible areas, but at least the ones covered should be "flawless". And I'd like Fedora to be *the* alternative. From nman64 at n-man.com Sun May 28 08:56:11 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 03:56:11 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <200605262010.35756.hugo@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> On Sunday 28 May 2006 01:59, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > To be fair about the PSD format wiki design mockups.... You need to > show/hide layers in that PSD to be able to view the entire design. An open > format that Photoshop can actually handle like PNG wouldn't work, right, > since it's flat[1]? The GIMP opens the PSD and is able to display these > layers, no problem. Since they were created in Adobe Photoshop (I'm > assuming)... Photoshop doesn't exactly allow you to save as or export to > XCF (the GIMP's native format.) > This is a common case. If the original proprietary program (Photoshop) can't directly save to an open format, then the contributor should use another tool (the GIMP) to convert the file from a proprietary format (PSD) to the best open format possible (XCF). It is the responsibility of the original contributor to make this conversion. Consider it to be the price of using a proprietary program. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From guillermo.gomez at gmail.com Sun May 28 12:30:15 2006 From: guillermo.gomez at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?Ikd1aWxsZXJtbyBHw7NtZXogUy4i?=) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 08:30:15 -0400 Subject: fedora-ve logo? In-Reply-To: <200605270654.06757.nman64@n-man.com> References: <447838D0.9050204@gmail.com> <200605270654.06757.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <447997D7.8040609@gmail.com> Patrick W. Barnes wrote: > On Saturday 27 May 2006 06:32, "Guillermo G?mez S." > wrote: > >> Hi, we have a contributor who posted a modified logo with fedora-ve >> text in it. >> Is it valid to do such modifications? I dont want to punish him but >> certainly he has a point on localizing the logo somehow. >> What's the policy in this case? To encourgae him to make it "the >> right" or not to modify it at all ? >> >> > > Any modifications must follow the guidelines outlined at: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo > > The PDF file listed there details how graphics can be created, including > specifications for colors, fonts and spacing. > > Once you have prepared your modified form, submit it to logo at fedoraproject.org > to get usage permission. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list Graphics Standard Manual confuses me regarding the Typeface of the logo. It says it uses U001 fonts but not even in the manual they look as as the logo. What's the typeface font of the logo? Guillermo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Sun May 28 16:01:56 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 11:01:56 -0500 Subject: fedora-ve logo? In-Reply-To: <447997D7.8040609@gmail.com> References: <447838D0.9050204@gmail.com> <200605270654.06757.nman64@n-man.com> <447997D7.8040609@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200605281101.59896.nman64@n-man.com> On Sunday 28 May 2006 07:30, "Guillermo G?mez S." wrote: > > Graphics Standard Manual confuses me regarding the Typeface of the logo. > It says it uses U001 fonts but not even in the manual they look as as > the logo. > What's the typeface font of the logo? > The U001 font is intended to complement the logo. Any text you use with the logo should be in the U001 font. The logo itself uses a different font, Bryant 2, which is not freely available and should not be used for any additional text. http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From duffy at redhat.com Sun May 28 17:36:48 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 13:36:48 -0400 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <200605262010.35756.hugo@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> Patrick W. Barnes wrote: > On Sunday 28 May 2006 01:59, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > >>To be fair about the PSD format wiki design mockups.... You need to >>show/hide layers in that PSD to be able to view the entire design. An open >>format that Photoshop can actually handle like PNG wouldn't work, right, >>since it's flat[1]? The GIMP opens the PSD and is able to display these >>layers, no problem. Since they were created in Adobe Photoshop (I'm >>assuming)... Photoshop doesn't exactly allow you to save as or export to >>XCF (the GIMP's native format.) > This is a common case. If the original proprietary program (Photoshop) can't > directly save to an open format, then the contributor should use another tool > (the GIMP) to convert the file from a proprietary format (PSD) to the best > open format possible (XCF). It is the responsibility of the original > contributor to make this conversion. Consider it to be the price of using a > proprietary program. Well, true, the contributor could install the GIMP and convert the artwork before submitting it.... this sounds simple, right? But if they're using a platform that supports Photoshop, they are necessarily running a platform where it may be very complicated to install the GIMP: - For Windows it is not one simple download, run setup, and you're good. You also have to install the GTK+ runtime environment *first*, which just by its name is pretty intimidating for non-technical users. In fact, it might be intimidating enough to be off-putting. - For OS X it is even more complicated; you have to install fink or ports (for dlcompa), and you have to install X11 before you can install the GIMP. This is quite a bit of a PITA. There are plenty of great potential art contributors out there who may not necessarily be technical enough to quickly / easily figure out how to install the GIMP on their art development platform of choice. I guess I'm just trying to say that things could be worse - the artwork could be in a format that a FOSS program like the GIMP or inkscape couldn't even open to view. And it may not be all that easy for contributing artists to convert their stuff to open formats before submitting. If anybody would like to submit contributions in an open format but are having trouble converting their work or aren't sure where to start, feel free to send your stuff to me and I'll be happy to convert it and I'll also help you get the GIMP / whatever installed. ~m From duffy at redhat.com Sun May 28 17:45:45 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 13:45:45 -0400 Subject: fedora-ve logo? In-Reply-To: <200605281101.59896.nman64@n-man.com> References: <447838D0.9050204@gmail.com> <200605270654.06757.nman64@n-man.com> <447997D7.8040609@gmail.com> <200605281101.59896.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <4479E1C9.8060103@redhat.com> Patrick W. Barnes wrote: > On Sunday 28 May 2006 07:30, "Guillermo G?mez S." > wrote: > >>Graphics Standard Manual confuses me regarding the Typeface of the logo. >>It says it uses U001 fonts but not even in the manual they look as as >>the logo. >>What's the typeface font of the logo? >> > > > The U001 font is intended to complement the logo. Any text you use with the > logo should be in the U001 font. The logo itself uses a different font, > Bryant 2, which is not freely available and should not be used for any > additional text. > > http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html The lowercase 'a' is completely different ('a' with a 'hat' rather than a 'o|' 'a', and tsome line width variations). Did Matt make a custom 'a' for the Fedora logotype? ~m From jkeating at j2solutions.net Sun May 28 17:56:57 2006 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 13:56:57 -0400 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <200605262010.35756.hugo@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1148839017.7067.25.camel@ender> On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 13:36 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > - For OS X it is even more complicated; you have to install fink or ports (for > dlcompa), and you have to install X11 before you can install the GIMP. This is > quite a bit of a PITA. Not quite. There is a self contained gimp.app provided that just requires X11 from OS X, which is pretty darn easy to get installed. My wife uses gimp on her ibook and has since the day she got into graphical work. It is very easy to use and manage. Also, there is seashore which is something of a rewrite using cocoa. http://seashore.sourceforge.net/ -- Jesse Keating RHCE (geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From duffy at redhat.com Sun May 28 17:58:53 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?TcOhaXLDrW4gRHVmZnk=?=) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 13:58:53 -0400 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <1148839017.7067.25.camel@ender> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <200605262010.35756.hugo@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> <1148839017.7067.25.camel@ender> Message-ID: <4479E4DD.1080809@redhat.com> Jesse Keating wrote: > On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 13:36 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > >>- For OS X it is even more complicated; you have to install fink or ports (for >>dlcompa), and you have to install X11 before you can install the GIMP. This is >>quite a bit of a PITA. > > > Not quite. There is a self contained gimp.app provided that just > requires X11 from OS X, which is pretty darn easy to get installed. My > wife uses gimp on her ibook and has since the day she got into graphical > work. It is very easy to use and manage. She didn't have to install fink or ports? Also, did she install it, or did you install it? Even if she doesn't have a technical background, she has a highly technical support person in you... ;-) ~m From jkeating at j2solutions.net Sun May 28 18:02:46 2006 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 14:02:46 -0400 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <4479E4DD.1080809@redhat.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <200605262010.35756.hugo@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> <1148839017.7067.25.camel@ender> <4479E4DD.1080809@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1148839366.7067.28.camel@ender> On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 13:58 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > She didn't have to install fink or ports? Nope. Google for 'gimp osx' and you get led to http://www.gimp.org/macintosh/ which has http://gimp-app.sourceforge.net/ as the first link. > Also, did she install it, or did you install it? Even if she doesn't > have a > technical background, she has a highly technical support person in > you... ;-) She did it when she took over my ibook. She knew about Gimp from using it on Windows, so she googled, and whamo it was there. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From duffy at redhat.com Sun May 28 18:07:03 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?TcOhaXLDrW4gRHVmZnk=?=) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 14:07:03 -0400 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <1148839366.7067.28.camel@ender> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <200605262010.35756.hugo@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> <1148839017.7067.25.camel@ender> <4479E4DD.1080809@redhat.com> <1148839366.7067.28.camel@ender> Message-ID: <4479E6C7.2040000@redhat.com> Jesse Keating wrote: > On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 13:58 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > >>She didn't have to install fink or ports? > > > Nope. Google for 'gimp osx' and you get led to > http://www.gimp.org/macintosh/ which has > http://gimp-app.sourceforge.net/ as the first link. > > >>Also, did she install it, or did you install it? Even if she doesn't >>have a >>technical background, she has a highly technical support person in >>you... ;-) > > > She did it when she took over my ibook. She knew about Gimp from using > it on Windows, so she googled, and whamo it was there. Okay, I still maintain that it is less than trivial to install on either OS X or Windows, though. Not that I'm trying to make up excuses, more offer my services to any who may need them. :) ~m From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Sun May 28 18:52:01 2006 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 13:52:01 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <"2 0 0605262010.35756.hugo"@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4479F151.3000900@prodigy.net.mx> M?ir?n Duffy escribi?: > Well, true, the contributor could install the GIMP and convert the > artwork before submitting it.... this sounds simple, right? But if > they're using a platform that supports Photoshop, they are necessarily > running a platform where it may be very complicated to install the GIMP: > > - For Windows it is not one simple download, run setup, and you're > good. You also have to install the GTK+ runtime environment *first*, > which just by its name is pretty intimidating for non-technical users. > In fact, it might be intimidating enough to be off-putting. > I hate to disagree with you, there are GIMP packages which include GTK and install it before The GIMP as such is installed, much like GAIM packages which include the GTK runtime or not, and you download accordingly. > - For OS X it is even more complicated; you have to install fink or > ports (for dlcompa), and you have to install X11 before you can > install the GIMP. This is quite a bit of a PITA. > > There are plenty of great potential art contributors out there who may > not necessarily be technical enough to quickly / easily figure out how > to install the GIMP on their art development platform of choice. > > I guess I'm just trying to say that things could be worse - the > artwork could be in a format that a FOSS program like the GIMP or > inkscape couldn't even open to view. And it may not be all that easy > for contributing artists to convert their stuff to open formats before > submitting. I have strong doubts of these contributor artists promoting *FOSS* tools and OSes if they *don't* use such tools... seems just completely not right for some reason... It would be like creating Apple artwork on a Windows PC (or a Sun Solaris workstation, for that matter). Not that they couldn't, but there sure are ways to produce open formats even on such closed platforms, like GIMP selfcontained packages or Inkscape self contained packages. > > If anybody would like to submit contributions in an open format but > are having trouble converting their work or aren't sure where to > start, feel free to send your stuff to me and I'll be happy to convert > it and I'll also help you get the GIMP / whatever installed. Maybe these should be part of the guidelines/instructions too over at the artwork wikis? Not that helping fellow users is a bad thing, but for others that may be in the same situation, a central reference can prove to be more helpful for a lot of users, as opposed to help out on an individual basis. From duffy at redhat.com Sun May 28 18:52:16 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 14:52:16 -0400 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <4479F151.3000900@prodigy.net.mx> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <"2 0 0605262010.35756.hugo"@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> <4479F151.3000900@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <4479F160.2040000@redhat.com> Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: >> - For Windows it is not one simple download, run setup, and you're >> good. You also have to install the GTK+ runtime environment *first*, >> which just by its name is pretty intimidating for non-technical users. >> In fact, it might be intimidating enough to be off-putting. >> > I hate to disagree with you, there are GIMP packages which include GTK > and install it before The GIMP as such is installed, much like GAIM > packages which include the GTK runtime or not, and you download > accordingly. Can you provide a link? >> - For OS X it is even more complicated; you have to install fink or >> ports (for dlcompa), and you have to install X11 before you can >> install the GIMP. This is quite a bit of a PITA. >> >> There are plenty of great potential art contributors out there who may >> not necessarily be technical enough to quickly / easily figure out how >> to install the GIMP on their art development platform of choice. >> >> I guess I'm just trying to say that things could be worse - the >> artwork could be in a format that a FOSS program like the GIMP or >> inkscape couldn't even open to view. And it may not be all that easy >> for contributing artists to convert their stuff to open formats before >> submitting. > > I have strong doubts of these contributor artists promoting *FOSS* tools > and OSes if they *don't* use such tools... seems just completely not > right for some reason... It would be like creating Apple artwork on a > Windows PC (or a Sun Solaris workstation, for that matter). Not that > they couldn't, but there sure are ways to produce open formats even on > such closed platforms, like GIMP selfcontained packages or Inkscape self > contained packages. For vector art, I firmly believe Inkscape makes any proprietary vector artwork creation program unnecessary. For bitmap-based art though.... simple tasks take a lot longer in the GIMP. They seriously do. Volunteers only have so much time as it is... >> If anybody would like to submit contributions in an open format but >> are having trouble converting their work or aren't sure where to >> start, feel free to send your stuff to me and I'll be happy to convert >> it and I'll also help you get the GIMP / whatever installed. > > Maybe these should be part of the guidelines/instructions too over at > the artwork wikis? Not that helping fellow users is a bad thing, but for > others that may be in the same situation, a central reference can prove > to be more helpful for a lot of users, as opposed to help out on an > individual basis. Sure, would you like to write it? ~m From duffy at redhat.com Sun May 28 18:54:04 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 14:54:04 -0400 Subject: Wikified Version of Fedora Logo Guidelines(was Re: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted) In-Reply-To: References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <4475D494.9090908@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4479F1CC.9050103@redhat.com> > On Thu, 25 May 2006, [ISO-8859-1] M?ir?n Duffy wrote: >>Would it be ok to make a wikified version of the guidelines? (so you dont have >>to load the pdf?) Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > If anyone is capable of doing that properly, you are. :) Here it is: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLogoUsageGuidelines Not as pretty as it could be, but you all know what to do. ~m From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Sun May 28 19:03:10 2006 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 14:03:10 -0500 Subject: fedora-ve logo? In-Reply-To: <4479E1C9.8060103@redhat.com> References: <447838D0.9050204@gmail.com> <200605270654.06757.nman64@n-man.com> <447997D7.8040609@gmail.com> <200605281101.59896.nman64@n-man.com> <4479E1C9.8060103@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4479F3EE.6040708@prodigy.net.mx> M?ir?n Duffy escribi?: > The lowercase 'a' is completely different ('a' with a 'hat' rather > than a 'o|' 'a', and tsome line width variations). > > Did Matt make a custom 'a' for the Fedora logotype? > It is a completely different font altogether. The one used in the logotype is the Bryant 2 font, which is not freely available and has to be purchased from http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html I still have some gripes of using a proprietary font for the logotype (I seem to be alone there) instead of either: - Making from scratch the typeface, like it was the case for Fedora 1-4. - Using a freely available font. As I said, I seem to be the only one with such gripes... Guess I'll have to mange and "live with it?", and is not like I'm a FLOSS zealot, just seemed to go against the "FLOSS only" philosophy of Fedora and the reasons why there are no mp3 or DVD support in the distribution, amongst other non-free programs... So non-free programs = no, non-free typefaces = yes for official use? That's what I have a problem with... But, as I said, I'm [albeit slowly] learning to "live with it?". From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Sun May 28 19:08:17 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 22:08:17 +0300 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <4479F160.2040000@redhat.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <"2 0 0605262010.35756.hugo"@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> <4479F151.3000900@prodigy.net.mx> <4479F160.2040000@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4479F521.7010900@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: >>> - For Windows it is not one simple download, run setup, and you're >>> good. You also have to install the GTK+ runtime environment *first*, >>> which just by its name is pretty intimidating for non-technical >>> users. In fact, it might be intimidating enough to be off-putting. >>> >> I hate to disagree with you, there are GIMP packages which include GTK >> and install it before The GIMP as such is installed, much like GAIM >> packages which include the GTK runtime or not, and you download >> accordingly. > > Can you provide a link? Two .exe to run is easy enough: http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/stable.html I recently introduced GIMP on Windows to a complete microserf (does not know anything beside Visual Studio and is a newbie in using graphic software) who had no problem installing and learning it (with some lessons from http://gug.sunsite.dk/?page=tutorials), she even managed to produce a decent looking website with GIMP made graphics. From stickster at gmail.com Sun May 28 19:12:22 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 15:12:22 -0400 Subject: fedora-ve logo? In-Reply-To: <4479F3EE.6040708@prodigy.net.mx> References: <447838D0.9050204@gmail.com> <200605270654.06757.nman64@n-man.com> <447997D7.8040609@gmail.com> <200605281101.59896.nman64@n-man.com> <4479E1C9.8060103@redhat.com> <4479F3EE.6040708@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <1148843542.8197.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 14:03 -0500, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > I still have some gripes of using a proprietary font for the logotype (I > seem to be alone there) instead of either: > > - Making from scratch the typeface, like it was the case for Fedora 1-4. This was *not* the case for FC1 - FC4. The logo was created by customizing an Adobe Myriad font. > - Using a freely available font. > > As I said, I seem to be the only one with such gripes... Guess I'll have > to mange and "live with it?", and is not like I'm a FLOSS zealot, just > seemed to go against the "FLOSS only" philosophy of Fedora and the > reasons why there are no mp3 or DVD support in the distribution, amongst > other non-free programs... So non-free programs = no, non-free typefaces > = yes for official use? That's what I have a problem with... But, as I > said, I'm [albeit slowly] learning to "live with it?". You're not the only one with this gripe, but it's frankly a non-starter. A proprietary font in a logo not meant for uncontrolled distribution is very different from code that is very clearly meant for uncontrolled distribution. Requiring the designers to come up with completely original fontwork for this purpose is, to my mind, much like requiring the Fedora Websites team to come up with their own FLOSS BIOS implementation for their Web servers because Dell doesn't publish theirs as open-source. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From duffy at redhat.com Sun May 28 19:12:56 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 15:12:56 -0400 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <4479F521.7010900@nicubunu.ro> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <"2 0 0605262010.35756.hugo"@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> <4479F151.3000900@prodigy.net.mx> <4479F160.2040000@redhat.com> <4479F521.7010900@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <4479F638.9040404@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > >> Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: >> >>>> - For Windows it is not one simple download, run setup, and you're >>>> good. You also have to install the GTK+ runtime environment *first*, >>>> which just by its name is pretty intimidating for non-technical >>>> users. In fact, it might be intimidating enough to be off-putting. >>>> >>> I hate to disagree with you, there are GIMP packages which include >>> GTK and install it before The GIMP as such is installed, much like >>> GAIM packages which include the GTK runtime or not, and you download >>> accordingly. >> >> >> Can you provide a link? > > > Two .exe to run is easy enough: http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/stable.html Yep, as I mentioned earlier, the GTK+2 runtime & actual GIMP installer. I'm not saying it's rocket science, but it is complicated by involving two separate packages *plus* all of the jargon written on the page. It *could* be easier. > I recently introduced GIMP on Windows to a complete microserf (does not > know anything beside Visual Studio and is a newbie in using graphic > software) who had no problem installing and learning it (with some > lessons from http://gug.sunsite.dk/?page=tutorials), she even managed to > produce a decent looking website with GIMP made graphics. Again though, a technical user leading a more non-technical user.... ~m From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Sun May 28 19:20:16 2006 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 14:20:16 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <4479F160.2040000@redhat.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <"2 0 0605262010.35756.hugo"@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> <4479F151.3000900@prodigy.net.mx> <4479F160.2040000@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4479F7F0.1040806@prodigy.net.mx> M?ir?n Duffy escribi?: > Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: >>> - For Windows it is not one simple download, run setup, and you're >>> good. You also have to install the GTK+ runtime environment *first*, >>> which just by its name is pretty intimidating for non-technical >>> users. In fact, it might be intimidating enough to be off-putting. >>> >> I hate to disagree with you, there are GIMP packages which include >> GTK and install it before The GIMP as such is installed, much like >> GAIM packages which include the GTK runtime or not, and you download >> accordingly. > > Can you provide a link? Will have to look around as I'm sure there is one (a friend of mine installed this way), as I don't seem to see any at the official GIMP for Windows site, http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/stable.html > >>> - For OS X it is even more complicated; you have to install fink or >>> ports (for dlcompa), and you have to install X11 before you can >>> install the GIMP. This is quite a bit of a PITA. >>> >>> There are plenty of great potential art contributors out there who >>> may not necessarily be technical enough to quickly / easily figure >>> out how to install the GIMP on their art development platform of >>> choice. >>> >>> I guess I'm just trying to say that things could be worse - the >>> artwork could be in a format that a FOSS program like the GIMP or >>> inkscape couldn't even open to view. And it may not be all that easy >>> for contributing artists to convert their stuff to open formats >>> before submitting. >> >> I have strong doubts of these contributor artists promoting *FOSS* >> tools and OSes if they *don't* use such tools... seems just >> completely not right for some reason... It would be like creating >> Apple artwork on a Windows PC (or a Sun Solaris workstation, for that >> matter). Not that they couldn't, but there sure are ways to produce >> open formats even on such closed platforms, like GIMP selfcontained >> packages or Inkscape self contained packages. > > For vector art, I firmly believe Inkscape makes any proprietary vector > artwork creation program unnecessary. For bitmap-based art though.... > simple tasks take a lot longer in the GIMP. They seriously do. > Volunteers only have so much time as it is... I have no experience with other graphics tools like Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro, so I can't say... To me working with The GIMP is "natural". As for the vector graphics, I couldn't agree more. > >>> If anybody would like to submit contributions in an open format but >>> are having trouble converting their work or aren't sure where to >>> start, feel free to send your stuff to me and I'll be happy to >>> convert it and I'll also help you get the GIMP / whatever installed. >> >> Maybe these should be part of the guidelines/instructions too over at >> the artwork wikis? Not that helping fellow users is a bad thing, but >> for others that may be in the same situation, a central reference can >> prove to be more helpful for a lot of users, as opposed to help out >> on an individual basis. > > Sure, would you like to write it? > > ~m Sure, though I don't have a Wiki account. From lxmaier at gmail.com Sun May 28 21:57:16 2006 From: lxmaier at gmail.com (Alex Maier) Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 17:57:16 -0400 Subject: fedora-ve logo? In-Reply-To: <1148843542.8197.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <447838D0.9050204@gmail.com> <200605270654.06757.nman64@n-man.com> <447997D7.8040609@gmail.com> <200605281101.59896.nman64@n-man.com> <4479E1C9.8060103@redhat.com> <4479F3EE.6040708@prodigy.net.mx> <1148843542.8197.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <7f617d270605281457g6e82323r205c673710e17165@mail.gmail.com> On 5/28/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 14:03 -0500, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > > I still have some gripes of using a proprietary font for the logotype (I > > seem to be alone there) instead of either: > > > > - Making from scratch the typeface, like it was the case for Fedora 1-4. > > This was *not* the case for FC1 - FC4. The logo was created by > customizing an Adobe Myriad font. Yes and no--the font used in for "old" Fedora logotype was a proprietary Myriad Pro Black Italic: http://www.paratype.com/fstore/fonts/Myriad-Pro.htm Myriad Pro is one of the fonts used in with the Red Hat "Shadowman" logo. From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon May 29 05:38:20 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 08:38:20 +0300 Subject: fedora-ve logo? In-Reply-To: <4479E1C9.8060103@redhat.com> References: <447838D0.9050204@gmail.com> <200605270654.06757.nman64@n-man.com> <447997D7.8040609@gmail.com> <200605281101.59896.nman64@n-man.com> <4479E1C9.8060103@redhat.com> Message-ID: <447A88CC.30807@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Patrick W. Barnes wrote: >> >> http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html > > The lowercase 'a' is completely different ('a' with a 'hat' rather than > a 'o|' 'a', and tsome line width variations). It is "Bryant2 Medium Alternate no. 2" (or bold ?) - see it in the "Test Typer": http://www.processtypefoundry.com/testtyper/index.php?loadfont=bryant%20pro And i think this approximation is quite close: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork/logo/fedora_font.svg (it was made from scratch, using Bryant just as a visual reference) -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon May 29 05:56:06 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 08:56:06 +0300 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <4479F638.9040404@redhat.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <"2 0 0605262010.35756.hugo"@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> <4479F151.3000900@prodigy.net.mx> <4479F160.2040000@redhat.com> <4479F521.7010900@nicubunu.ro> <4479F638.9040404@redhat.com> Message-ID: <447A8CF6.8090403@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Nicu Buculei wrote: >> >> Two .exe to run is easy enough: >> http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/stable.html > > Yep, as I mentioned earlier, the GTK+2 runtime & actual GIMP installer. > I'm not saying it's rocket science, but it is complicated by involving > two separate packages *plus* all of the jargon written on the page. It > *could* be easier. GIMPShop is a single package and is available for both Windows and Mac. I give no direct link as i do not want to endorse the fork, ask Google and feel lucky. >> I recently introduced GIMP on Windows to a complete microserf (does >> not know anything beside Visual Studio and is a newbie in using >> graphic software) who had no problem installing and learning it (with >> some lessons from http://gug.sunsite.dk/?page=tutorials), she even >> managed to produce a decent looking website with GIMP made graphics. > > Again though, a technical user leading a more non-technical user.... Sorry, but we are here on a Fedora mailing list not in the primary school, i would expect all subscribers to have a minimum of technical knowledge. If the contributor is able to follow written instructions and generate a public/private key pair he should be also able to follow written instructions and install GTK on Windows. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From duffy at redhat.com Mon May 29 07:00:44 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 03:00:44 -0400 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <447A8CF6.8090403@nicubunu.ro> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <"2 0 0605262010.35756.hugo"@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> <4479F151.3000900@prodigy.net.mx> <4479F160.2040000@redhat.com> <4479F521.7010900@nicubunu.ro> <4479F638.9040404@redhat.com> <447A8CF6.8090403@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <447A9C1C.105@redhat.com> Listen, the main point I am trying to make is that we should be happy that people are contributing design work, no matter what format it is presented in. From looking at them, it is obvious Matt's contributions represent a significant investment in time and effort and we should appreciate that. Rather than complaining about the use of proprietary formats, it would be better for us to help educate those that use them about what FOSS alternatives are available and help them transition over to using open formats and hopefully FOSS as well to create the artwork. Can we make a policy of only accepting artwork in an open format, listing out acceptable formats, and offer to help anyone who needs help in converting their stuff for submission? Accentuate the positive, and work to improve the negative... Sound reasonable? ~m From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon May 29 09:34:15 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 15:04:15 +0530 Subject: fedora-ve logo? In-Reply-To: <4479F3EE.6040708@prodigy.net.mx> References: <447838D0.9050204@gmail.com> <200605270654.06757.nman64@n-man.com> <447997D7.8040609@gmail.com> <200605281101.59896.nman64@n-man.com> <4479E1C9.8060103@redhat.com> <4479F3EE.6040708@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <1148895256.4310.794.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 14:03 -0500, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > M?ir?n Duffy escribi?: > > The lowercase 'a' is completely different ('a' with a 'hat' rather > > than a 'o|' 'a', and tsome line width variations). > > > > Did Matt make a custom 'a' for the Fedora logotype? > > > It is a completely different font altogether. The one used in the > logotype is the Bryant 2 font, which is not freely available and has to > be purchased from > http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html > > I still have some gripes of using a proprietary font for the logotype (I > seem to be alone there) instead of either: > > - Making from scratch the typeface, like it was the case for Fedora 1-4. > > - Using a freely available font. > > As I said, I seem to be the only one with such gripes... Guess I'll have > to mange and "live with it?", and is not like I'm a FLOSS zealot, just > seemed to go against the "FLOSS only" philosophy of Fedora and the > reasons why there are no mp3 or DVD support in the distribution, amongst > other non-free programs... So non-free programs = no, non-free typefaces > = yes for official use? That's what I have a problem with... But, as I > said, I'm [albeit slowly] learning to "live with it?". > > -- While it would have been better to use a free font, a font used in a logo that is *not* meant for unlimited and unrestricted distribution is very different from software. The logo is part of a trademark that need we need to protect from misuse unlike the software which doesnt have such concerns that we provide in Fedora. SVG files have been provided that implement a similar typeface. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon May 29 09:38:02 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 15:08:02 +0530 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <4479F7F0.1040806@prodigy.net.mx> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <"2 0 0605262010.35756.hugo"@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> <4479F151.3000900@prodigy.net.mx> <4479F160.2040000@redhat.com> <4479F7F0.1040806@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <1148895482.4310.796.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 14:20 -0500, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > >> Maybe these should be part of the guidelines/instructions too over at > >> the artwork wikis? Not that helping fellow users is a bad thing, but > >> for others that may be in the same situation, a central reference can > >> prove to be more helpful for a lot of users, as opposed to help out > >> on an individual basis. > > > > Sure, would you like to write it? > > > > ~m > Sure, though I don't have a Wiki account. You can get one http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon May 29 09:52:42 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 15:22:42 +0530 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <4479F151.3000900@prodigy.net.mx> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <"2 0 0605262010.35756.hugo"@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> <4479F151.3000900@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <1148896362.4310.800.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 13:52 -0500, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > > There are plenty of great potential art contributors out there who may > > not necessarily be technical enough to quickly / easily figure out how > > to install the GIMP on their art development platform of choice. > > > > I guess I'm just trying to say that things could be worse - the > > artwork could be in a format that a FOSS program like the GIMP or > > inkscape couldn't even open to view. And it may not be all that easy > > for contributing artists to convert their stuff to open formats before > > submitting. > I have strong doubts of these contributor artists promoting *FOSS* tools > and OSes if they *don't* use such tools... seems just completely not > right for some reason.. Artists are creating art. They might not have any intention or desire to promote FOSS tools and the tools or the artists knowledge on those tools might be limited. Rahul From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Tue May 30 00:01:52 2006 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 19:01:52 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <1148895482.4310.796.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> References: <7f617d270605250850m298eadc3qd2164d79c5d225c4@mail.gmail.com> <"2 0 0605262010.35756.hugo"@devin.com.br> <44794A40.40508@redhat.com> <200605280356.17407.nman64@n-man.com> <4479DFB0.6000409@redhat.com> <4479F151.3000900@prodigy.net.mx> <4479F160.2040000@redhat.com> <4479F7F0.1040806@prodigy.net.mx> <"1148895482.4 310.796.camel"@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Message-ID: <447B8B70.3050109@prodigy.net.mx> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Rahul Sundaram escribi?: > > > You can get one http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing. > > Rahul > > -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > I've already applied, and am awaiting response for the signed CLA now... Hope this does not take too long. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEe4tvXM+XOp70dwoRAuQWAJwOmGvPwm/USRLXfM2YITOAKz0W0wCghqpw gCuZguPMefhDrDlEs8k1TuY= =q+o7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From chasd at silveroaks.com Tue May 30 14:41:43 2006 From: chasd at silveroaks.com (chasd at silveroaks.com) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 09:41:43 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <20060528160006.9372F73256@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060528160006.9372F73256@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: > From: Gain Paolo Mureddu > Speaking of print... Do you have information (besides the one at their > site) when will the SVGP spec will be ratified and implemented? Sorry, no. I expect as with any standards ratification, the timeline is not set in stone. > Are there any > programs to manipulate EPS? First, a bit about EPS. EPS stands for Encapsulated PostScript. An EPS file is actually a PostScript program, meant to be executed at print time. In practice, a given EPS file can only be edited by the program that originates it. Because each vector drawing application can create and use proprietary PostScript functions within the EPS, if an application different from the originating program tries to edit the EPS, there will be some problems translating the original PostScript functions into the proprietary functions of the application attempting to edit the EPS. By the way, the term "proprietary" as used here does not only apply to closed source applications. For example, if the KOffice program Karbon14 used different PostScript functions from Inkscape, there might be be translation issues, even though both applications are open source. However, since both applications are open source, the developers of each application would be able to more easily work together to fix translation problems, or perhaps even collaborate on a library both programs could use to read/write EPS files. In the graphics industry, having an EPS file not editable is considered a Good Thing in many cases. That way any logo you distribute can't easily be modified, which is highly desirable. This is why I recommend distributing native formats as well as formats that are good for distribution. In fact, it is possible to keep the native format files under stricter control, such as only having them available on request. In answer to your question about vector drawing tools, I assume you are focussed on the Linux platform. Besides Inkscape and the previously mentioned Karbon14 ( Killustrator/Kontour ), there is a GNUStep application called Cenon. I have used Inkscape the most of those three, although nott as much as Adobe Illustrator or Aldus/Macromedia/Adobe Freehand. > I mean I know encapsulated postscript or PDF > are a better way to handle printing, but how would you adjust color (to > CMYK for instance) with those formats? Besides hacking on the PostScript with a text editor, open the file in the originating application. Charles Dostale System Admin - Silver Oaks Communications http://www.silveroaks.com/ 824 17th Street, Moline IL 61265 From chasd at silveroaks.com Tue May 30 14:54:44 2006 From: chasd at silveroaks.com (chasd at silveroaks.com) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 09:54:44 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <20060528160006.9372F73256@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060528160006.9372F73256@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <63815cf48a53f34c8638f2528fb01a7a@silveroaks.com> > From: M?ir?n Duffy > Actually, this is *not* true with respect to what Hugo is suggesting. > For example: > > http://www.rpi.edu/dept/NewsComm/graphics/downloads/pdfs/toolkit.pdf Very descriptive document. > Look at pages 8 & 9 of the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute brand > book. A > university is a large organization made up of many sub-organizations - > schools, > departments, research labs, etc. RPI's brand guidelines (as most > universities' > and large corporations') recognize that they must apply to many > disparate > sub-organizations that share the same 'brand' and have guidelines for > incorparating the use of their logo for those sub-organizations. This can be handled in a way where the sub-organization's identity is associated with the main brand, bit not integrated with the logo. It depends how close the affiliation of the sub-organization is to the main organization. > This concept of 'sub-logo' guidelines actually not that uncommon in > brand > design, and it would be nice if such sub-logo guidelines could be > specified for > Fedora's logo. True. If desired, guidelines on how to handle such cases should be integrated into the usage document, like the one for rpi.edu mentioned above. This puts a larger load on someone within the Fedora Project to keep tabs on a larger array of logos, and have new logos created or approved as the Fedora Project grows. Without a dedicated logo cop within the Fedora Project, I think the simplicity of the current usage document keeps the overhead of maintaining the Fedora visual identity at a minimum. That is a benefit to the Fedora Community from my point of view. I agree with your point, but I ask how much additional value does the Fedora Project get out of these additional logos, verses establishing an identity link for sub-organizations without changing the established usage guidelines ? Charles Dostale System Admin - Silver Oaks Communications http://www.silveroaks.com/ 824 17th Street, Moline IL 61265 From duffy at redhat.com Tue May 30 15:30:48 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 11:30:48 -0400 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <63815cf48a53f34c8638f2528fb01a7a@silveroaks.com> References: <20060528160006.9372F73256@hormel.redhat.com> <63815cf48a53f34c8638f2528fb01a7a@silveroaks.com> Message-ID: <447C6528.1070807@redhat.com> chasd at silveroaks.com wrote: >> Look at pages 8 & 9 of the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute brand book. A >> university is a large organization made up of many sub-organizations - >> schools, >> departments, research labs, etc. RPI's brand guidelines (as most >> universities' >> and large corporations') recognize that they must apply to many disparate >> sub-organizations that share the same 'brand' and have guidelines for >> incorparating the use of their logo for those sub-organizations. > > > This can be handled in a way where the sub-organization's identity is > associated with the main brand, bit not integrated with the logo. ? Care to give an example or even a sketch? I'm not sure how you could handle that in the way that you describe. It seems like having guidelines such as in the RPI usage guidelines would be the easiest way to do this. My argument here is that the clearspace is too restrictive and that the logo guidelines should make exceptions for 'sub-logos.' You don't want people to be able to position the logo that closely to another element *unless* that element together with the logo forms a sub-logo. Part of the guideline for 'sub-logos' should indicate what type of organizations are authorized to create a sub-logo affiliated with Fedora, and an approval process should be put into place as well before people can use the sub-logos. As has been noted earlier in this thread, the Fedora Wiki mockup [1], designed by Capstrat themselves (who designed the Fedora logo), violates the clearspace set in the guidelines with the Fedora wiki logo in the upper left corner. This speaks to how the clearspace guidelines *should* allow for other elements to be placed closer to the logo in special cases. It > depends how close the affiliation of the sub-organization is to the main > organization. > >> This concept of 'sub-logo' guidelines actually not that uncommon in brand >> design, and it would be nice if such sub-logo guidelines could be >> specified for >> Fedora's logo. > > > True. If desired, guidelines on how to handle such cases should be > integrated into the usage document, like the one for rpi.edu mentioned > above. This puts a larger load on someone within the Fedora Project to > keep tabs on a larger array of logos, and have new logos created or > approved as the Fedora Project grows. Without a dedicated logo cop > within the Fedora Project, I think the simplicity of the current usage > document keeps the overhead of maintaining the Fedora visual identity at > a minimum. That is a benefit to the Fedora Community from my point of view. Well, considering there is already an approval process for the use of the logo which this would fit under, it really isn't putting any extra load that we haven't already signed up for.... *any* usage of the logo already has to be reported to & approved by logo at fedoraproject.org... the dedicated 'logo cop' :) > I agree with your point, but I ask how much additional value does the > Fedora Project get out of these additional logos, verses establishing an > identity link for sub-organizations without changing the established > usage guidelines ? You keep saying that it's possible for sub-orgs to identify with the Fedora project in their logos without changing the established usage guidelines, but you don't explain how that is possible. I'd love to hear your thoughts. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiElements ~m From chasd at silveroaks.com Tue May 30 15:37:45 2006 From: chasd at silveroaks.com (chasd at silveroaks.com) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 10:37:45 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <20060528160006.9372F73256@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060528160006.9372F73256@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: > From: "Patrick W. Barnes" > This is a common case. If the original proprietary program > (Photoshop) can't > directly save to an open format, then the contributor should use > another tool > (the GIMP) to convert the file from a proprietary format (PSD) to the > best > open format possible (XCF). It is the responsibility of the original > contributor to make this conversion. XCF is not a open standard format like SVG or OpenDocument. XCF is a format that happens to have the source code available that reads and writes that format, otherwise XCF isn't documented well. I do think it is a good idea to encourage the use of open source tools by distributing layouts and other files in the _native_ format of those open source tools. That would include the native format of Scribus ( .sla ). Charles Dostale System Admin - Silver Oaks Communications http://www.silveroaks.com/ 824 17th Street, Moline IL 61265 From chasd at silveroaks.com Tue May 30 15:45:50 2006 From: chasd at silveroaks.com (chasd at silveroaks.com) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 10:45:50 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <20060528215726.9041D72FAD@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060528215726.9041D72FAD@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <55daf5769cb73fe1e61e5d098937b59e@silveroaks.com> For those that think it is difficult to install the GIMP on a Windows or Mac, that's because those platforms don't support yum ;) Otherwise, I fall on the side that installing the GIMP on Windows or OS X is is not brain-dead simple, but simple enough for most users. Requiring the installation of the GIMP ( or Inkscape ) on Windows or OS X is not too high of a bar to ask, IMHO. Charles Dostale System Admin - Silver Oaks Communications http://www.silveroaks.com/ 824 17th Street, Moline IL 61265 From chasd at silveroaks.com Tue May 30 16:11:35 2006 From: chasd at silveroaks.com (chasd at silveroaks.com) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 11:11:35 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <20060529160010.986977347C@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060529160010.986977347C@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <6cc6f84b34aad2a0623e0df1d3a45d92@silveroaks.com> > From: Rahul Sundaram > Artists are creating art. Art is personal expression, graphics are not art. Graphics are the prostitution of art concepts and techniques to get a specific desired reaction for the benefit of the party paying for the graphics. > They might not have any intention or desire to > promote FOSS tools and the tools or the artists knowledge on those > tools > might be limited. Even the appearance of promoting FOSS tools would be the type of ass-kissing considered normal for a designer ;) Charles Dostale From chasd at silveroaks.com Tue May 30 16:56:42 2006 From: chasd at silveroaks.com (chasd at silveroaks.com) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 11:56:42 -0500 Subject: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted In-Reply-To: <20060530160011.3CDB773048@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060530160011.3CDB773048@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <7d045777113f5a798e40a90a101fc2c9@silveroaks.com> > From: M?ir?n Duffy >> This can be handled in a way where the sub-organization's identity is >> associated with the main brand, bit not integrated with the logo. > > ? Care to give an example or even a sketch? Looks like it is put up or shut up for me ;) > My argument here is that the clearspace is too restrictive Every logo usage document I have been involved with has had at least one designer think a portion was too restrictive. I am assuming that this type of "sub-logo" situation was considered when the usage guidelines were created, as some of the logo proposals included "sub-logo" ideas that were dropped. > As has been noted earlier in this thread, the Fedora Wiki mockup [1], > designed > by Capstrat themselves (who designed the Fedora logo), violates the > clearspace > set in the guidelines with the Fedora wiki logo in the upper left > corner. I personally don't see the reason why the word "WIKI" is placed so close to the logo in that sample layout. Who cares that it is a Wiki rather than some other technology ? Does the word "HTML" occur below the logo on static pages ? There are other design options and plenty of space to move the word "WIKI" somewhere else if it is important. > You keep saying that it's possible for sub-orgs to identify with the > Fedora > project in their logos without changing the established usage > guidelines, but > you don't explain how that is possible. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I am working under a deadline right now, I will try to see if I can set aside some time to come up with a few ideas. If I was going to work on some ideas, I would like to use other examples besides putting the word 'WIKI" with the logo. Four characters is easy to squeeze in somewhere, but if you have 15 to 20 characters, or even two lines of copy to "squeeze" in, that changes many design decisions. Even the examples given earlier at seem to be one word or two short words. Other languages tend to have a greater number of characters for the same words or phrases in English. What is the term for "info feed" in German ? Should we think about designs using other character sets, like Cyrillic for one example ? Charles Dostale From rgarth at gmail.com Wed May 31 00:39:19 2006 From: rgarth at gmail.com (Rob Garth) Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 10:39:19 +1000 Subject: Providing patched DVDs to potential users Message-ID: <183d138b0605301739y23e904f6uc55bff5d3f350c73@mail.gmail.com> A generic install of FC5 requires hundreds of megs of patches once installed, a particular frustration of mine, and I am sure it doesn't leave a good taste in the mouth of people trying out Fedora for the first time. Whenever I give out Fedora DVD images now, I make sure they are built form an updated install tree and that the will require no - or minimal - patching after install. Why isn't there updated monthly releases of the FC iso images? I think there should be, and I think whenever a DVD is handed out to the general public it should be up to date. Any thoughts? (and apalogies if this is the wrong group to post to). Rob Garth. From tchung at fedoraproject.org Wed May 31 00:44:18 2006 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 17:44:18 -0700 Subject: Providing patched DVDs to potential users In-Reply-To: <183d138b0605301739y23e904f6uc55bff5d3f350c73@mail.gmail.com> References: <183d138b0605301739y23e904f6uc55bff5d3f350c73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <369bce3b0605301744j13b96d2md8c1c04ae2b07394@mail.gmail.com> On 5/30/06, Rob Garth wrote: > A generic install of FC5 requires hundreds of megs of patches once > installed, a particular frustration of mine, and I am sure it doesn't > leave a good taste in the mouth of people trying out Fedora for the > first time. > > Whenever I give out Fedora DVD images now, I make sure they are built > form an updated install tree and that the will require no - or minimal > - patching after install. > > Why isn't there updated monthly releases of the FC iso images? I think > there should be, and I think whenever a DVD is handed out to the > general public it should be up to date. > > Any thoughts? (and apalogies if this is the wrong group to post to). > > Rob Garth. Hi Rob, You might want to contact "Robert 'Bob' Jensen" on that subject. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2006-May/msg00186.html Regards, -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung