From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Sun Dec 2 15:48:36 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 15:48:36 +0000 Subject: Banners Message-ID: <1196610516.2681.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi all, Not sure if this should be cross-posted to Fedora websites team as well... What do people think about getting some banners together for the fp.org? I feel bad for asking as I'm creatively challenged(!) and wouldn't be much assistance in putting them together, but I thought it would be good if we could put banners up advertising FWN when it's released, or the various spins that are now available? Mike McGrath suggested using some javascript to pick which banner to display randomly, with weighting for events like the release of FWN. I think I've just about got enough skills to put this bit of things together if people were interested to create the banners? Appreciate people are busy and might not have the time for something like this... Jon From fugolini at fedoraproject.org Sun Dec 2 18:23:17 2007 From: fugolini at fedoraproject.org (Francesco Ugolini) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 19:23:17 +0100 Subject: Banners In-Reply-To: <1196610516.2681.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1196610516.2681.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Good idea. Actually we have a wiki page that contain some banners ( fedoraproject.org/wiki/wiki/Marketing/Banners) made by Fedora Contributors. Best regards Francesco Ugolini 2007/12/2, Jonathan Roberts : > > Hi all, > > Not sure if this should be cross-posted to Fedora websites team as > well... > > What do people think about getting some banners together for the fp.org? > I feel bad for asking as I'm creatively challenged(!) and wouldn't be > much assistance in putting them together, but I thought it would be good > if we could put banners up advertising FWN when it's released, or the > various spins that are now available? > > Mike McGrath suggested using some javascript to pick which banner to > display randomly, with weighting for events like the release of FWN. I > think I've just about got enough skills to put this bit of things > together if people were interested to create the banners? > > Appreciate people are busy and might not have the time for something > like this... > > Jon > > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kamisamanou at kamisamanou.net Sun Dec 2 20:46:31 2007 From: kamisamanou at kamisamanou.net (Kamisamanou Burgess) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 14:46:31 -0600 Subject: Fedora 9 Names/Themes Ideas In-Reply-To: <474FAE2E.60400@nicubunu.ro> References: <474F9954.1000302@alumnos.inf.utfsm.cl> <474FAE2E.60400@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <5dbb83710712021246l3ff7b3efme26cdfcfe0187f91@mail.gmail.com> Two questions: What are the naming standards? Where did "Werewolf" come from? On Nov 30, 2007 12:31 AM, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Sven von Brand wrote: > > Markus McLaughlin wrote: > > > >> As far as a theme, a ST-TNG "LCARS" style desktop that has a similar > look to > >> those screens Data and Picard are always using on TNG. Or a "Virtual > >> Library" or "Virtual Cinema" theme. > > > > That sounds very interesting, when can we see a first draft ^^? > > Hopefully on the Art list :p > We started the process [1] a couple of days ago and are waiting for the > first round of concepts. > > [1] - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F9Themes > > -- > nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com > Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Sayonara, Kamisamanou Burgess http://www.kamisamanou.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mosonkonrad at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 23:00:35 2007 From: mosonkonrad at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Konrad_Moso=F1?=) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 00:00:35 +0100 Subject: Self-Introduction: Konrad Moson Message-ID: <62b1552c0712021500s7a5bf0b6p2025092cf8ffd0fb@mail.gmail.com> Hi! I'm new Fedora Ambassador in Poland. I'm 15 years old, and I'm interesting Linux and classical music. I using Linux for 2 years and Fedora for 1 year. I hope that Fedora lives forever, i like it, and i get to promoting Fedora and Open Source. I used most of Linux distributions, but i think that Fedora is fast and best :) Fedora have good graphical and text-mode applications (like pirut, yum). I think that It's good for begginers and for geeks :) Regards to, Konrad Moson From mcgiwer at fedoraproject.org Sun Dec 2 23:38:22 2007 From: mcgiwer at fedoraproject.org (Pawel Sadowski) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:38:22 +0100 Subject: Self-Introduction: Konrad Moson In-Reply-To: <62b1552c0712021500s7a5bf0b6p2025092cf8ffd0fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <62b1552c0712021500s7a5bf0b6p2025092cf8ffd0fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1196638702.4398.16.camel@redhat> On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 00:00 +0100, Konrad Moso? wrote: > Hi! I'm new Fedora Ambassador in Poland. Welcome aboard, Konrad! :) > I'm 15 years old, and I'm interesting Linux and classical music. I > using Linux for 2 years and Fedora for 1 year. I hope that Fedora > lives forever, i like it, and i get to promoting Fedora and Open > Source. Keep doing the right thing ;) > I used most of Linux distributions, but i think that Fedora is fast > and best :) Fedora have good graphical and text-mode applications > (like pirut, yum). I think that It's good for begginers and for geeks > :) > > Regards to, > Konrad Moson Regards, Pawel From henriquecsj at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 23:41:44 2007 From: henriquecsj at gmail.com (Henrique "LonelySpooky" Junior) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:41:44 -0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: Konrad Moson In-Reply-To: <62b1552c0712021500s7a5bf0b6p2025092cf8ffd0fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <62b1552c0712021500s7a5bf0b6p2025092cf8ffd0fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1196638904.17180.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Welcome, Konrad Em Seg, 2007-12-03 ?s 00:00 +0100, Konrad Moso? escreveu: > Hi! I'm new Fedora Ambassador in Poland. > > I'm 15 years old, and I'm interesting Linux and classical music. I > using Linux for 2 years and Fedora for 1 year. I hope that Fedora > lives forever, i like it, and i get to promoting Fedora and Open > Source. > I used most of Linux distributions, but i think that Fedora is fast > and best :) Fedora have good graphical and text-mode applications > (like pirut, yum). I think that It's good for begginers and for geeks > :) > > Regards to, > Konrad Moson > -- Henrique "LonelySpooky" Junior From pablo.barrera at proyectofedora.org Mon Dec 3 00:18:27 2007 From: pablo.barrera at proyectofedora.org (Pablo Barrera) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:18:27 -0300 Subject: [Ambassadors] Self-Introduction: Konrad Moson In-Reply-To: <62b1552c0712021500s7a5bf0b6p2025092cf8ffd0fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <62b1552c0712021500s7a5bf0b6p2025092cf8ffd0fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1196641107.2581.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Welcome Konrad! Nice to hear from the Europe "near when the sun rise" :) Its good to experiment with all distro, I do this all the time. Hope that Fedora will help you to improve your music creation and inspiration. Best regards from Buenos Aires Pablo Barrera El lun, 03-12-2007 a las 00:00 +0100, Konrad Moso? escribi?: > Hi! I'm new Fedora Ambassador in Poland. > > I'm 15 years old, and I'm interesting Linux and classical music. I > using Linux for 2 years and Fedora for 1 year. I hope that Fedora > lives forever, i like it, and i get to promoting Fedora and Open > Source. > I used most of Linux distributions, but i think that Fedora is fast > and best :) Fedora have good graphical and text-mode applications > (like pirut, yum). I think that It's good for begginers and for geeks > :) > > Regards to, > Konrad Moson > > -- > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list > Fedora-ambassadors-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Dec 3 11:23:59 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:23:59 +0200 Subject: Banners In-Reply-To: <1196610516.2681.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1196610516.2681.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4753E74F.8080404@nicubunu.ro> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > What do people think about getting some banners together for the fp.org? > I feel bad for asking as I'm creatively challenged(!) and wouldn't be > much assistance in putting them together, but I thought it would be good > if we could put banners up advertising FWN when it's released, or the > various spins that are now available? Sure, and we already did some such banners (like the countdown to F8 release and some other designs). One good start would be to define which size(s) do we want to use (468x60, others?) and then assembly a list with themes, events, slogans. I think banner creation is a process where is easy to jump in and would be suitable even for new members of the Art Team. Of course, there are areas where we need to take care (file size, logo usage), but this is why we are a team. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Mon Dec 3 17:36:08 2007 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:36:08 -0500 Subject: Banners In-Reply-To: <4753E74F.8080404@nicubunu.ro> References: <1196610516.2681.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4753E74F.8080404@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <47543E88.1010508@projetofedora.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi All! Some Brazilian Fedora artwork project http://www.jaymeayres.com/arquivos Nicu Buculei escreveu: > Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> What do people think about getting some banners together for the fp.org? >> I feel bad for asking as I'm creatively challenged(!) and wouldn't be >> much assistance in putting them together, but I thought it would be good >> if we could put banners up advertising FWN when it's released, or the >> various spins that are now available? > > Sure, and we already did some such banners (like the countdown to F8 > release and some other designs). > One good start would be to define which size(s) do we want to use > (468x60, others?) and then assembly a list with themes, events, slogans. > > I think banner creation is a process where is easy to jump in and would > be suitable even for new members of the Art Team. Of course, there are > areas where we need to take care (file size, logo usage), but this is > why we are a team. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHVD6HPg3HAC1vlg4RAjDzAJ92ulyP/v5SJL7B8qvkJ7/55XF2JACfcIXr 1y4wv2z3hW6VfXwEZeuNHjo= =MIKQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From satyajit at nerdshack.com Mon Dec 3 17:51:12 2007 From: satyajit at nerdshack.com (Hobbes) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:21:12 +0530 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <20071203170010.2BEF9735C3@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20071203170010.2BEF9735C3@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1196704272.4377.9.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> Hi all, I have just joined. I am a Fedora Ambassador, India, Chennai. I have been using Fedora for the past two years and have loved every version. I have always wanted to be a part of the community and am very glad to be an ambassador. I am currently employed as a Red Hat Enterprise Linux trainer. All these days I have been recommending fedora to my students and all of them have loved it. Regards, Saytajit Ranjeev. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nayyares at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 18:28:11 2007 From: nayyares at gmail.com (Nayyar Ahmad) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:28:11 +0200 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <1196704272.4377.9.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> References: <20071203170010.2BEF9735C3@hormel.redhat.com> <1196704272.4377.9.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> Message-ID: <8e1ee2a30712031028g18e9c283gbd2aa53330f2c1e2@mail.gmail.com> welcome Hobbes...! cheers On Dec 3, 2007 7:51 PM, Hobbes wrote: > Hi all, > > I have just joined. I am a Fedora Ambassador, India, Chennai. I have > been using Fedora for the past two years and have loved every version. I > have always wanted to be a part of the community and am very glad to be > an ambassador. > > I am currently employed as a Red Hat Enterprise Linux trainer. All these > days I have been recommending fedora to my students and all of them have > loved it. > > Regards, > > Saytajit Ranjeev. > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Nayyar Ahmad RHCE (ID:804006858622745) Skype: nayyares Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nihedmm at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 18:38:11 2007 From: nihedmm at gmail.com (nihed mbarek) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:38:11 +0100 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <8e1ee2a30712031028g18e9c283gbd2aa53330f2c1e2@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071203170010.2BEF9735C3@hormel.redhat.com> <1196704272.4377.9.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> <8e1ee2a30712031028g18e9c283gbd2aa53330f2c1e2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bddd8fd0712031038h48372161ma66d650f081f4062@mail.gmail.com> Welcome in our big family 2007/12/3, Nayyar Ahmad : > > welcome Hobbes...! > > cheers > > On Dec 3, 2007 7:51 PM, Hobbes wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > I have just joined. I am a Fedora Ambassador, India, Chennai. I have > > been using Fedora for the past two years and have loved every version. I > > have always wanted to be a part of the community and am very glad to be > > an ambassador. > > > > I am currently employed as a Red Hat Enterprise Linux trainer. All these > > days I have been recommending fedora to my students and all of them have > > loved it. > > > > Regards, > > > > Saytajit Ranjeev. > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > -- > Nayyar Ahmad > RHCE (ID:804006858622745) > Skype: nayyares > Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- M'BAREK Med Nihed, Fedora Ambassador, TUNISIA, Northern Africa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fugolini at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 3 18:50:01 2007 From: fugolini at fedoraproject.org (Francesco Ugolini) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:50:01 +0100 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <5bddd8fd0712031038h48372161ma66d650f081f4062@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071203170010.2BEF9735C3@hormel.redhat.com> <1196704272.4377.9.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> <8e1ee2a30712031028g18e9c283gbd2aa53330f2c1e2@mail.gmail.com> <5bddd8fd0712031038h48372161ma66d650f081f4062@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Welcome on board ! Regards Francesco Ugolini 2007/12/3, nihed mbarek : > > Welcome in our big family > > 2007/12/3, Nayyar Ahmad : > > > > welcome Hobbes...! > > > > cheers > > > > On Dec 3, 2007 7:51 PM, Hobbes < satyajit at nerdshack.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I have just joined. I am a Fedora Ambassador, India, Chennai. I have > > > been using Fedora for the past two years and have loved every version. > > > I > > > have always wanted to be a part of the community and am very glad to > > > be > > > an ambassador. > > > > > > I am currently employed as a Red Hat Enterprise Linux trainer. All > > > these > > > days I have been recommending fedora to my students and all of them > > > have > > > loved it. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Saytajit Ranjeev. > > > > > > -- > > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Nayyar Ahmad > > RHCE (ID:804006858622745) > > Skype: nayyares > > Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > -- > M'BAREK Med Nihed, > Fedora Ambassador, TUNISIA, Northern Africa > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vignesh1986 at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 15:50:02 2007 From: vignesh1986 at gmail.com (Vignesh) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 21:20:02 +0530 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: References: <20071203170010.2BEF9735C3@hormel.redhat.com> <1196704272.4377.9.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> <8e1ee2a30712031028g18e9c283gbd2aa53330f2c1e2@mail.gmail.com> <5bddd8fd0712031038h48372161ma66d650f081f4062@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Welcome ! Vignesh On Dec 4, 2007 12:20 AM, Francesco Ugolini wrote: > Welcome on board ! > > Regards > > Francesco Ugolini > > 2007/12/3, nihed mbarek : > > > Welcome in our big family > > > > 2007/12/3, Nayyar Ahmad : > > > > > > welcome Hobbes...! > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > On Dec 3, 2007 7:51 PM, Hobbes < satyajit at nerdshack.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I have just joined. I am a Fedora Ambassador, India, Chennai. I have > > > > been using Fedora for the past two years and have loved every > > > > version. I > > > > have always wanted to be a part of the community and am very glad to > > > > be > > > > an ambassador. > > > > > > > > I am currently employed as a Red Hat Enterprise Linux trainer. All > > > > these > > > > days I have been recommending fedora to my students and all of them > > > > have > > > > loved it. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Saytajit Ranjeev. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Nayyar Ahmad > > > RHCE (ID:804006858622745) > > > Skype: nayyares > > > Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com > > > -- > > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > M'BAREK Med Nihed, > > Fedora Ambassador, TUNISIA, Northern Africa > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From satyajit at nerdshack.com Wed Dec 5 06:55:59 2007 From: satyajit at nerdshack.com (Satyajit Ranjeev) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:25:59 +0530 Subject: Fedora-marketing-list Digest, Vol 42, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: <20071204170010.2CE41738DA@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20071204170010.2CE41738DA@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1196837759.2951.3.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> Hi all, Thanks a lot. I have a small correction, my name is Satyajit. Hobbes is my computers name and thus accidentally became my mail user name. Sorry about that. Satyajit On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 12:00 -0500, fedora-marketing-list-request at redhat.com wrote: > Send Fedora-marketing-list mailing list submissions to > fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fedora-marketing-list-request at redhat.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > fedora-marketing-list-owner at redhat.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Fedora-marketing-list digest..." > > > NOTE: When replying to digest messages, please set the subject to match the original message. > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Self Introduction (Hobbes) > 2. Re: Self Introduction (Nayyar Ahmad) > 3. Re: Self Introduction (nihed mbarek) > 4. Re: Self Introduction (Francesco Ugolini) > 5. Re: Self Introduction (Vignesh) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:21:12 +0530 > From: Hobbes > Subject: Self Introduction > To: fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > Message-ID: <1196704272.4377.9.camel at ibm.oakgrove.hom> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi all, > > I have just joined. I am a Fedora Ambassador, India, Chennai. I have > been using Fedora for the past two years and have loved every version. I > have always wanted to be a part of the community and am very glad to be > an ambassador. > > I am currently employed as a Red Hat Enterprise Linux trainer. All these > days I have been recommending fedora to my students and all of them have > loved it. > > Regards, > > Saytajit Ranjeev. > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 189 bytes > Desc: This is a digitally signed message part > Url : https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/attachments/20071203/194b1a51/attachment.bin > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:28:11 +0200 > From: "Nayyar Ahmad" > Subject: Re: Self Introduction > To: "For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user > base" > Message-ID: > <8e1ee2a30712031028g18e9c283gbd2aa53330f2c1e2 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > welcome Hobbes...! > > cheers > > On Dec 3, 2007 7:51 PM, Hobbes wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > I have just joined. I am a Fedora Ambassador, India, Chennai. I have > > been using Fedora for the past two years and have loved every version. I > > have always wanted to be a part of the community and am very glad to be > > an ambassador. > > > > I am currently employed as a Red Hat Enterprise Linux trainer. All these > > days I have been recommending fedora to my students and all of them have > > loved it. > > > > Regards, > > > > Saytajit Ranjeev. > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > -- > Nayyar Ahmad > RHCE (ID:804006858622745) > Skype: nayyares > Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/attachments/20071203/b37cdde3/attachment.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:38:11 +0100 > From: "nihed mbarek" > Subject: Re: Self Introduction > To: "For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user > base" > Message-ID: > <5bddd8fd0712031038h48372161ma66d650f081f4062 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Welcome in our big family > > 2007/12/3, Nayyar Ahmad : > > > > welcome Hobbes...! > > > > cheers > > > > On Dec 3, 2007 7:51 PM, Hobbes wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I have just joined. I am a Fedora Ambassador, India, Chennai. I have > > > been using Fedora for the past two years and have loved every version I > > > have always wanted to be a part of the community and am very glad to be > > > an ambassador. > > > > > > I am currently employed as a Red Hat Enterprise Linux trainer. All these > > > days I have been recommending fedora to my students and all of them have > > > loved it. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Saytajit Ranjeev. > > > > > > -- > > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Nayyar Ahmad > > RHCE (ID:804006858622745) > > Skype: nayyares > > Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > -- > M'BAREK Med Nihed, > Fedora Ambassador, TUNISIA, Northern Africa > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/attachments/20071203/9c4bddb3/attachment.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:50:01 +0100 > From: "Francesco Ugolini" > Subject: Re: Self Introduction > To: "For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user > base" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Welcome on board ! > > Regards > > Francesco Ugolini > > 2007/12/3, nihed mbarek : > > > > Welcome in our big family > > > > 2007/12/3, Nayyar Ahmad : > > > > > > welcome Hobbes...! > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > On Dec 3, 2007 7:51 PM, Hobbes < satyajit at nerdshack.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I have just joined. I am a Fedora Ambassador, India, Chennai. I have > > > > been using Fedora for the past two years and have loved every version. > > > > I > > > > have always wanted to be a part of the community and am very glad to > > > > be > > > > an ambassador. > > > > > > > > I am currently employed as a Red Hat Enterprise Linux trainer. All > > > > these > > > > days I have been recommending fedora to my students and all of them > > > > have > > > > loved it. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Saytajit Ranjeev. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Nayyar Ahmad > > > RHCE (ID:804006858622745) > > > Skype: nayyares > > > Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com > > > -- > > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > M'BAREK Med Nihed, > > Fedora Ambassador, TUNISIA, Northern Africa > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/attachments/20071203/903e9228/attachment.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 21:20:02 +0530 > From: Vignesh > Subject: Re: Self Introduction > To: "For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user > base" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Welcome ! > > Vignesh > > On Dec 4, 2007 12:20 AM, Francesco Ugolini > wrote: > > > Welcome on board ! > > > > Regards > > > > Francesco Ugolini > > > > 2007/12/3, nihed mbarek : > > > > > Welcome in our big family > > > > > > 2007/12/3, Nayyar Ahmad : > > > > > > > > welcome Hobbes...! > > > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > > > On Dec 3, 2007 7:51 PM, Hobbes < satyajit at nerdshack.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > I have just joined. I am a Fedora Ambassador, India, Chennai. I have > > > > > been using Fedora for the past two years and have loved every > > > > > version. I > > > > > have always wanted to be a part of the community and am very glad to > > > > > be > > > > > an ambassador. > > > > > > > > > > I am currently employed as a Red Hat Enterprise Linux trainer. All > > > > > these > > > > > days I have been recommending fedora to my students and all of them > > > > > have > > > > > loved it. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Saytajit Ranjeev. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > > > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Nayyar Ahmad > > > > RHCE (ID:804006858622745) > > > > Skype: nayyares > > > > Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com > > > > -- > > > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > M'BAREK Med Nihed, > > > Fedora Ambassador, TUNISIA, Northern Africa > > > -- > > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/attachments/20071204/262ea333/attachment.html > > ------------------------------ > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mspevack at redhat.com Wed Dec 5 14:46:36 2007 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:46:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: 2007-11-21 Fedora Store meeting summary In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Max Spevack wrote: > I have a bunch of other Fedora-related stuff going on, and I'm going > to need to skip this week's Store SIG meeting. The next meeting will > be on December 5th, at the same time, etc. FUDCon planning is taking up my "marketing" time, and so I have not had an opportunity to do any mockups of Store ideas. Until there is something even simple that we can look at, there's not too much to talk about in an IRC meeting. I will get to this, but it is a priority B for me... if someone else wants to take some initiative, that would be great... Otherwise, we'll just move at a slower pace. I do think that a Fedora Store session would be a useful thing to have for part of a day at the FUDCon "hackfest". --Max From tchung at fedoraproject.org Thu Dec 6 19:13:11 2007 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:13:11 -0800 Subject: packtpub.com: Fedora 8 - More than a Linux Distribution Message-ID: <369bce3b0712061113m1b8a4338h5fd4a0afb63124aa@mail.gmail.com> "One of the most popular free-as-in-freedom Linux distribution, Fedora Linux, released its latest version, Fedora 8, earlier in November. In addition to being a fantastic release, Fedora's user and development community and a clear headed approach makes Fedora 8 much more than a Linux distribution." http://www.packtpub.com/article/Fedora-8-More-than-a-Linux-Distribution -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From mmcgrath at redhat.com Thu Dec 6 21:01:24 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:01:24 -0600 Subject: First banner ad! Message-ID: <47586324.6090806@redhat.com> Can we get someone to make our first banner AD to be placed on http://fedoraproject.org/ for the upcoming FUDCon? It should match closely this image (in specs, no need to animate): http://fedoraproject.org/static/images/banners/f8-banner-animation.gif In the future we may move the banner this is sort of a trial run. Please try to make it match the rest of that page :) -Mike From jmbabich at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 21:33:17 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 00:33:17 +0300 Subject: First banner ad! In-Reply-To: <47586324.6090806@redhat.com> References: <47586324.6090806@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712061333o6c651036w2f10fe744249a4e1@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 7, 2007 12:01 AM, Mike McGrath wrote: > http://fedoraproject.org/static/images/banners/f8-banner-animation.gif > > In the future we may move the banner this is sort of a trial run. > Please try to make it match the rest of that page :) > Clever design - keep up the good work! John Babich From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Dec 7 07:02:15 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 09:02:15 +0200 Subject: First banner ad! In-Reply-To: <47586324.6090806@redhat.com> References: <47586324.6090806@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4758EFF7.1040405@nicubunu.ro> Mike McGrath wrote: > Can we get someone to make our first banner AD to be placed on > http://fedoraproject.org/ for the upcoming FUDCon? It should match > closely this image (in specs, no need to animate): > > http://fedoraproject.org/static/images/banners/f8-banner-animation.gif > > In the future we may move the banner this is sort of a trial run. > Please try to make it match the rest of that page :) When designing the banner keep in mind we had a vote and a logo was selected, use it. The "winner" was design 5 from http://mihmo.livejournal.com/47496.html Its source can be found somewhere inside http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos.svg -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Dec 7 09:40:50 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 15:10:50 +0530 Subject: Interview with Brian Stevens Message-ID: <47591522.8020606@fedoraproject.org> Hi, Brian Stevens is the president of engineering of CTO of Red Hat. People might remember him here from an earlier discussion... http://www.linuxworld.com/community/?q=node/1749 "What else can we expect to see from new Red Hat offerings? Should we just watch Fedora or where else can we learn about new stuff coming down the pipe? Everything that we have under development is happening in public. I think that we stand unique in that and that the media and our customers are usually well aware of technology that's going to be coming from Red Hat long before we productize it. So, Fedora 8, just made available in the last week, had 54,000 downloads and installs that we can even measure in the first four days, a vibrant development community around next generation technology whether that be KVM or appliances or spins or network manager improvements. So, Fedora is absolutely the place to watch the OS evolve."" Rahul From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Dec 7 14:09:02 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:09:02 -0600 Subject: First banner ad! In-Reply-To: <4758EFF7.1040405@nicubunu.ro> References: <47586324.6090806@redhat.com> <4758EFF7.1040405@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <475953FE.2070608@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Mike McGrath wrote: >> Can we get someone to make our first banner AD to be placed on >> http://fedoraproject.org/ for the upcoming FUDCon? It should match >> closely this image (in specs, no need to animate): >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/static/images/banners/f8-banner-animation.gif >> >> In the future we may move the banner this is sort of a trial run. >> Please try to make it match the rest of that page :) > > When designing the banner keep in mind we had a vote and a logo was > selected, use it. > The "winner" was design 5 from http://mihmo.livejournal.com/47496.html > Its source can be found somewhere inside > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos.svg Will this be the same process for all future banners? -Mike From poelstra at redhat.com Wed Dec 12 14:30:59 2007 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:30:59 -0800 Subject: FUDCon Marketing? Message-ID: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> I thought Mike McGrath started a good idea with the thread about a banner ad... what else are we doing to spread the word about FUDCon? I haven't seen any external press. Some folks have mentioned spreading the word via blog postings, but that seems to be more announcing to ourselves instead of the outside world. Could we get some help from the RHT Communications people to start a campaign now that builds up to the actual event? Maybe first starting with a press release? This seems like a great opportunity to call attention to what is different about Fedora conferences... things like the admission fee being approximately $895 USD less than what it cost to attend the other distro's recent conference in Portland, Oregon in July 2007? But then maybe it isn't fair to compare these two conferences because they have a different purpose as do the distributions? ;-) John From kcatallo at redhat.com Wed Dec 12 14:56:04 2007 From: kcatallo at redhat.com (Kerrin Catallozzi) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:56:04 -0500 Subject: FUDCon Marketing? In-Reply-To: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> Message-ID: <475FF684.904@redhat.com> John- > Could we get some help from the RHT Communications people to start a > campaign now that builds up to the actual event? Maybe first starting > with a press release? I would suggest a blog on www.press.redhat.com. We use this press blog to distribute news to our reporters, analysts and others, and we've posted multiple blogs from the "Fedora Team" about Fedora 7 and Fedora 8 that Max has contributed. This would be a great place to start the conversation and be able to continue it later with updates. We just need someone to volunteer to either send along main points to include, and our team will draft the blog, or to write up the initial draft and send to me. Let me know if you have questions. thanks, Kerri Kerri Catallozzi Red Hat Corporate Communications o: 919.754.4268 More news, more often: www.press.redhat.com From foss.mailinglists at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 15:00:48 2007 From: foss.mailinglists at gmail.com (Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:30:48 +0530 Subject: FUDCon Marketing? In-Reply-To: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> Message-ID: <475FF7A0.8040904@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 John Poelstra wrote: > Could we get some help from the RHT Communications people to start a > campaign now that builds up to the actual event? Maybe first starting > with a press release? Without taking anything away from a BOS FUDCon - the user base for Fedora has been on the upswing across Asia - so, a typical lame question would be - what does it take to propose a FUDCon somewhere in Asia (note : I am not specifically saying India) and when does that process begin ? :sankarshan - -- http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHX/egXQZpNTcrCzMRAjpTAJ0WPJtTQioB9xsoh8ryQ+yvAWoqAACeJubf xv6CfJSq9cuEMEZEB6lDH6I= =EzA3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 12 15:05:18 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:05:18 -0800 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Voting System Conflicts] Message-ID: <1197471918.31357.32.camel@erato.phig.org> The decision we reached is to wait until the existing nomination closing time, which is today, to see if there are enough candidates for FDSCo seats. If not, we'll take the postponement to the end of the month. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Thanks for bringing this to the list. FWIW, I think we should decide at nomination closing time, 2359 UTC on 2007-12-12. If we don't have enough nominations, no reason to make a logjam. -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 12 20:11:46 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:11:46 -0800 Subject: Voting System Conflicts In-Reply-To: <1197472015.31357.35.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <369bce3b0712111732h5fe0e64cw10fcedf1211549a0@mail.gmail.com> <1197426830.16180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197427243.3966.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475F4B07.9090903@fedoralinks.org> <9d2c731f0712112141s72070791kd5479a3eca51ce41@mail.gmail.com> <1197472015.31357.35.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1197490306.31357.155.camel@erato.phig.org> (Evilly cross-posted to f-docs-l and f-marketing-l.) On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 07:06 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > As per this consensus, we'll proceed until the previously decided > nomination closing time (23:59 UTC today) to see if enough candidates > appear to stand for FDSCo election. If not, we'll postpone FDSCo > elections until the end of the month, freeing up the voting system for > others to use. We are on the path to having an election. Four people have self-nominated: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Nominations Unless the consensus changes, we'll close the nominations in four hours and move to the voting phase in two days. I hope this doesn't put too much of a twist in FAMSCo's plans. FWIW, it was never clear to me/us why the request was made. - Karsten > On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 08:41 +0300, John Babich wrote: > > On Dec 12, 2007 5:44 AM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > > > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 18:33 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > >> Moving over to f-docs-l for discussion. > > > >> > > > >> FAMSCo is politely requesting our slot to do their elections, since they > > > >> are now ready; details below. > > > >> > > > >> If we had a full slate of candidates, I wouldn't want to move our > > > >> election and would ask them to take it up after the 24th of December. > > > >> However, we're a bit shy on candidates. > > > >> > > > >> Should we take the extra time? > > > > > > > > Thanks for bringing this to the list. FWIW, I think we should decide at > > > > nomination closing time, 2359 UTC on 2007-12-12. If we don't have > > > > enough nominations, no reason to make a logjam. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Paul. > > > > > > Robert 'Bob' Jensen > > > > > +1 > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 12 21:03:09 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:03:09 -0800 Subject: FUDCon Marketing? In-Reply-To: <475FF684.904@redhat.com> References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> <475FF684.904@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1197493389.6049.18.camel@erato.phig.org> Here's an initial draft. Once we have consensus, we can move it over to the RHT press blog. I *think* I am a writer on that blog, so I can do the byline if Kerri et al wish. I wrote this from a personal viewpoint, since that is the flavor at www.press.redhat.com, which I happen to agree with. :) But the facts should be general. Also, if anyone has a better approach, go for it! In fact, we could publish several postings from several perspectives. ### begin The FUDCon (Fedora User and Developer Conference) has once again sprung to life, this time coming to Raleigh, NC 11 to 13 January 2008 for a meeting of the minds near Red Hat HQ. Sign up is easy and zero cost. If you can get yourself to Raleigh, you are welcome to attend. We're serious. Come. Started a few years ago as a grassroots conference with a bootstrappers budget, FUDCon has slowly grown in size and importance. These days at a FUDCon, decisions are made about the next few releases of Fedora, hackfests are held to produce code, content, and design, and leaders, doers, and users meet to talk about just what they want. Past FUDCons were held in Boston (2007, 2006, 2005), Berlin, Brussels, Delhi, London, Karlsruhe, and virtually. At FUDCon Boston 2007 we had what I felt was one of our most successful FUDCons. The conference sessions were held as a BarCamp-style, with session topics and schedule finalized the morning of the event. Over the weekend we held a big hackfest, with hacks held by everyone from Fedora Infrastructure to packagers doing final reviews for a merged Core and Extras. For me, the hackfest started Saturday morning and finished Sunday night when we all started to fall asleep in someone's hotel room. The hackfest event I was most involved in resulted in a new, streamlined process for joining Fedora as a contributor. We worked out the target audiences via use cases on a whiteboard with comments from Fedorans who joined us or happened to be in our corner of the room, and while Mo drew up the cool icons, I whipped together the wiki pages to make it all happen. By the next day we were announcing new pages and a new process for all projects to follow, helping to improve new contributors joining experience. At previous FUDCons, this happened, and so did that. At LinuxTag FUDCon, organizers did that, and this was the result [[Help with more cool FUDCon history.]] While I can't make any forward looking statements for the Project in general, the future of FUDCon is definitely looking good to me. One thing I'd like to hear about is a more fixed schedule for at least some of the FUDCons, such as the one(s) held in the United States. Bio -- Karsten Wade is a Fedora Project Board member, currently leads the Fedora Documentation Project, and works as a developer community manager for Red Hat. ## 30 ## -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hudsonman35 at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 03:48:18 2007 From: hudsonman35 at gmail.com (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:48:18 -0500 Subject: FUDcon, Fedora 9, Windoze Games Support Ideas! Message-ID: This is how future FUDcons should take place : Have a FUDcon for each continent! Have them all connected virtually so anyone can attend in that sense! Perhaps, have 2 days devoted to each FUDcon or a FUDcon that takes place in each continent at the same time. As far as marketing, have small ADs printed in every High-Tech column of every newspaper in every continent! As far as Fedora 9, I sure hope Windoze Games from Win 98 to XP will be supported in WINE or something similar so we Windoze Gamers won't be left out!!! Happy Holidays and a Happy Fedora New Year! Onward and forward! Mark McLaughlin linuxglobe.wordpress.com Hudson, MA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Dec 13 08:17:48 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:17:48 +0200 Subject: FUDcon, Fedora 9, Windoze Games Support Ideas! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4760EAAC.1060709@nicubunu.ro> Markus McLaughlin wrote: > This is how future FUDcons should take place : > > Have a FUDcon for each continent! So will you help sponsoring the developers traveling there? > As far as marketing, have small ADs printed > in every High-Tech column of every newspaper > in every continent! Paid with which money? > As far as Fedora 9, I sure hope Windoze Games > from Win 98 to XP will be supported in WINE or > something similar so we Windoze Gamers won't > be left out!!! Have you checked Wine's roadmap? To you realistically think they will get there in such timeframe? -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From che666 at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 12:52:57 2007 From: che666 at gmail.com (Rudolf Kastl) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:52:57 +0100 Subject: FUDcon, Fedora 9, Windoze Games Support Ideas! In-Reply-To: <4760EAAC.1060709@nicubunu.ro> References: <4760EAAC.1060709@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: On Dec 13, 2007 9:17 AM, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Markus McLaughlin wrote: > > This is how future FUDcons should take place : > > > > Have a FUDcon for each continent! > > So will you help sponsoring the developers traveling there? > > > As far as marketing, have small ADs printed > > in every High-Tech column of every newspaper > > in every continent! > > Paid with which money? > > > As far as Fedora 9, I sure hope Windoze Games > > from Win 98 to XP will be supported in WINE or > > something similar so we Windoze Gamers won't > > be left out!!! > > Have you checked Wine's roadmap? To you realistically think they will > get there in such timeframe? have you checked the roadmap and current state? lots of windows games already work out of the box in wine and some older ones already worked reliably years ago: appdb.winehq.org regards, Rudolf Kastl > > -- > nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com > Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From gdk at redhat.com Thu Dec 13 16:10:36 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:10:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: FUDcon, Fedora 9, Windoze Games Support Ideas! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2007, Markus McLaughlin wrote: > This is how future FUDcons should take place : Have a FUDcon for each > continent! Have them all connected virtually so anyone can attend in > that sense! Perhaps, have 2 days devoted to each FUDcon or a FUDcon > that takes place in each continent at the same time. This is actually what I'm working to fund. :) --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From gdk at redhat.com Thu Dec 13 16:13:07 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:13:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: FUDcon, Fedora 9, Windoze Games Support Ideas! In-Reply-To: <4760EAAC.1060709@nicubunu.ro> References: <4760EAAC.1060709@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Dec 2007, Nicu Buculei wrote: >> Have a FUDcon for each continent! > > So will you help sponsoring the developers traveling there? If I have my way, Red Hat will do exactly this. --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From mmcgrath at redhat.com Thu Dec 13 16:14:36 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:14:36 -0600 Subject: FUDCon Marketing? In-Reply-To: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47615A6C.8010004@redhat.com> John Poelstra wrote: > I thought Mike McGrath started a good idea with the thread about a > banner ad... what else are we doing to spread the word about FUDCon? > I haven't seen any external press. For those that haven't seen it we do have a fudcon banner rotating on http://fedoraproject.org/ refresh it a few times. Its a new mechanism for us so if you don't see it or its broken let us know. -Mike From poelstra at redhat.com Thu Dec 13 16:27:20 2007 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:27:20 -0800 Subject: FUDCon Marketing? In-Reply-To: <47615A6C.8010004@redhat.com> References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> <47615A6C.8010004@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47615D68.50404@redhat.com> Mike McGrath said the following on 12/13/2007 08:14 AM Pacific Time: > John Poelstra wrote: >> I thought Mike McGrath started a good idea with the thread about a >> banner ad... what else are we doing to spread the word about FUDCon? >> I haven't seen any external press. > > For those that haven't seen it we do have a fudcon banner rotating on > http://fedoraproject.org/ refresh it a few times. Its a new mechanism > for us so if you don't see it or its broken let us know. > > -Mike > It is being blocked by AdBlock on Firefox3b1 for me. I really think we need to add the specific dates... "2008" is too vague and the event is less than 30 days away! John From clints at utos.org Thu Dec 13 16:31:38 2007 From: clints at utos.org (Clint Savage) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:31:38 -0700 Subject: FUDCon Marketing? In-Reply-To: <47615D68.50404@redhat.com> References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> <47615A6C.8010004@redhat.com> <47615D68.50404@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47615E6A.40603@utos.org> John Poelstra wrote: > Mike McGrath said the following on 12/13/2007 08:14 AM Pacific Time: >> John Poelstra wrote: >>> I thought Mike McGrath started a good idea with the thread about a >>> banner ad... what else are we doing to spread the word about FUDCon? >>> I haven't seen any external press. >> >> For those that haven't seen it we do have a fudcon banner rotating on >> http://fedoraproject.org/ refresh it a few times. Its a new >> mechanism for us so if you don't see it or its broken let us know. >> >> -Mike >> > > It is being blocked by AdBlock on Firefox3b1 for me. I really think we > need to add the specific dates... "2008" is too vague and the event is > less than 30 days away! > > John > Adblock is blocking it for me as well... Clint From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu Dec 13 17:39:46 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:39:46 +0000 Subject: FUDCon Marketing? In-Reply-To: <47615D68.50404@redhat.com> References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> <47615A6C.8010004@redhat.com> <47615D68.50404@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1197567586.2688.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-12-13 at 08:27 -0800, John Poelstra wrote: > Mike McGrath said the following on 12/13/2007 08:14 AM Pacific Time: > > John Poelstra wrote: > >> I thought Mike McGrath started a good idea with the thread about a > >> banner ad... what else are we doing to spread the word about FUDCon? > >> I haven't seen any external press. > > > > For those that haven't seen it we do have a fudcon banner rotating on > > http://fedoraproject.org/ refresh it a few times. Its a new mechanism > > for us so if you don't see it or its broken let us know. > > > > -Mike > > > > It is being blocked by AdBlock on Firefox3b1 for me. I really think we > need to add the specific dates... "2008" is too vague and the event is > less than 30 days away! I've made a version which says "11-13 Jan 2008" if anybody thinks that's any better: http://questionsplease.org/fedora/fudcon-date-banner.png Best, Jon > > John > From tchung at fedoraproject.org Thu Dec 13 19:44:06 2007 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:44:06 -0800 Subject: oreillynet.com: Fedora Core 6 No More Message-ID: <369bce3b0712131144g1dfe293w2652985eb44023b5@mail.gmail.com> by Mike McGrath "As of this last Friday, December 7th Fedora Core 6 is no more. With it goes the last release the Fedora Project had seen the split between "Community" (Extras) and Red Hat sponsored (Core). Those not intimately involved in Fedora might be interested to learn that when the merge happened it was the core packages that ended up having to follow the former "Extras" packaging guidelines and not the other way around. Yet another testament to the power of community." http://www.oreillynet.com/linux/blog/2007/12/fedora_core_6_no_more.html?CMP=OTC-0O724Z062301&ATT=Fedora+Core+6+No+More Note: You can even *listen* to the blog :) -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Thu Dec 13 23:19:35 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:19:35 -0800 Subject: oreillynet.com: Fedora Core 6 No More In-Reply-To: <369bce3b0712131144g1dfe293w2652985eb44023b5@mail.gmail.com> References: <369bce3b0712131144g1dfe293w2652985eb44023b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4761BE07.6060807@thefinalzone.com> OMG! Zod is sent back to phantom cell. From shawnkaplan at hotmail.com Thu Dec 13 23:30:54 2007 From: shawnkaplan at hotmail.com (=?utf-8?B?U2hhd24gS2FwbGFu?=) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:30:54 +0000 Subject: FUDCon Marketing !!! In-Reply-To: <47615E6A.40603@utos.org> References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> <47615A6C.8010004@redhat.com><47615D68.50404@redhat.com><47615E6A.40603@utos.org> Message-ID: I'm a bit new to this thread, hope you don't mind me tossing in my two cents. Couple of thoughts: - we need to think clearly about the target audience of the event, and why they would want to attend. - determine our budget, organize our resources and then execute - time is growing short, so finding a rapid way to spread the word is critical. - banner ads on appropriate venues is most certainly a good idea, though not. often not free. But sure a lot cheaper, quicker, and easier to produce than print ads. - another excellent method is PR, which is often free and brings with it a multiplier effect. If we can seed this with an 'announcement', or quotes from a recent success story or key note speaker then all the better. Kerrin and karsten already have a head start on this. - direct email is likely a winner as well, as I'd expect we have links to most of our target audience anyway. We'll need to identify some target lists. Thoughts? Is there a budget we're working to? Is it zero? Or is there an opportunity to make a business case and get a bit? Have we written down our goals or target audience anywhere yet? Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Clint Savage Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:31:38 To:For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base Subject: Re: FUDCon Marketing? John Poelstra wrote: > Mike McGrath said the following on 12/13/2007 08:14 AM Pacific Time: >> John Poelstra wrote: >>> I thought Mike McGrath started a good idea with the thread about a >>> banner ad... what else are we doing to spread the word about FUDCon? >>> I haven't seen any external press. >> >> For those that haven't seen it we do have a fudcon banner rotating on >> http://fedoraproject.org/ refresh it a few times. Its a new >> mechanism for us so if you don't see it or its broken let us know. >> >> -Mike >> > > It is being blocked by AdBlock on Firefox3b1 for me. I really think we > need to add the specific dates... "2008" is too vague and the event is > less than 30 days away! > > John > Adblock is blocking it for me as well... Clint -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Dec 14 01:28:01 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:28:01 -0600 Subject: FUDCon Marketing? In-Reply-To: <47615E6A.40603@utos.org> References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> <47615A6C.8010004@redhat.com> <47615D68.50404@redhat.com> <47615E6A.40603@utos.org> Message-ID: <4761DC21.5030606@redhat.com> Clint Savage wrote: > John Poelstra wrote: >> Mike McGrath said the following on 12/13/2007 08:14 AM Pacific Time: >>> John Poelstra wrote: >>>> I thought Mike McGrath started a good idea with the thread about a >>>> banner ad... what else are we doing to spread the word about >>>> FUDCon? I haven't seen any external press. >>> >>> For those that haven't seen it we do have a fudcon banner rotating >>> on http://fedoraproject.org/ refresh it a few times. Its a new >>> mechanism for us so if you don't see it or its broken let us know. >>> >>> -Mike >>> >> >> It is being blocked by AdBlock on Firefox3b1 for me. I really think >> we need to add the specific dates... "2008" is too vague and the >> event is less than 30 days away! >> >> John >> > > Adblock is blocking it for me as well... In fairness... it is an ad :) -Mike From marketing-list at fedoralinks.org Fri Dec 14 02:40:31 2007 From: marketing-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:40:31 -0600 Subject: FUDCon Marketing? In-Reply-To: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4761ED1F.2070104@fedoralinks.org> John Poelstra wrote: > I thought Mike McGrath started a good idea with the thread about a > banner ad... what else are we doing to spread the word about FUDCon? I > haven't seen any external press. > > Some folks have mentioned spreading the word via blog postings, but that > seems to be more announcing to ourselves instead of the outside world. > > Could we get some help from the RHT Communications people to start a > campaign now that builds up to the actual event? Maybe first starting > with a press release? > > This seems like a great opportunity to call attention to what is > different about Fedora conferences... things like the admission fee > being approximately $895 USD less than what it cost to attend the other > distro's recent conference in Portland, Oregon in July 2007? > > But then maybe it isn't fair to compare these two conferences because > they have a different purpose as do the distributions? ;-) > > John > I asked daMaestro to add a banner to all the Fedora Unity Sites tonight and as always he came through for me. Thanks to all those that worked on the banner, we used the version from Jonathan Roberts BTW. Robert 'Bob' Jensen http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen KC0WYC http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/AmateurRadio Fedora Unity Project http://fedoraunity.org/ From fhornain at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 09:04:17 2007 From: fhornain at gmail.com (Frederic Hornain) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:04:17 +0100 Subject: FOSDEM 08 FEDORA SPEAKERS Message-ID: <3161376e0712140104p37aac262m956de8cfe7145307@mail.gmail.com> Dear *, The Fedora speakers recruitment for FOSDEM 08 started few weeks ago and I still not have any candidate from Fedora/Red Hat community -except Pawel for a presentation of Fedora - So, in order to be fair and nice with our friend of CentOs and FOSDEM visitors, I would need proposals from you. If you can spread the words... You can register at the Fedora FOSDEM 08 wiki page. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/FOSDEM/FOSDEM2008 In addition, I have received a speaker proposition from someone outside of .Fedora community. For my part, I think it is not a bad idea to let one session from outside in oder to have other Fedora experiences returns What do you think about that ? Best Regards Frederic Hornain http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FredericHornain From fhornain at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 09:07:09 2007 From: fhornain at gmail.com (Frederic Hornain) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:07:09 +0100 Subject: FOSDEM 08 FEDORA SPEAKERS In-Reply-To: <3161376e0712140104p37aac262m956de8cfe7145307@mail.gmail.com> References: <3161376e0712140104p37aac262m956de8cfe7145307@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3161376e0712140107l7e4ff0afj66c72836c729a9fa@mail.gmail.com> Hi again, It will be nice if we could have a speaker for Red Hat Global Desktop. Thanks a lot for your help. Kind Regards Fred Have fun with F8. On Dec 14, 2007 10:04 AM, Frederic Hornain wrote: > Dear *, > > The Fedora speakers recruitment for FOSDEM 08 started few weeks ago > and I still not have any candidate from Fedora/Red Hat community > -except Pawel for a presentation of Fedora - > So, in order to be fair and nice with our friend of CentOs and FOSDEM > visitors, I would need proposals from you. > If you can spread the words... > > You can register at the Fedora FOSDEM 08 wiki page. > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/FOSDEM/FOSDEM2008 > > In addition, I have received a speaker proposition from someone > outside of .Fedora community. > For my part, I think it is not a bad idea to let one session from > outside in oder to have other Fedora experiences returns > What do you think about that ? > > Best Regards > Frederic Hornain > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FredericHornain > -- ----------------------------------------------------- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list at redhat.com Olpc mailing list olpc-open at laptop.org From caillon at redhat.com Fri Dec 14 14:11:51 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:11:51 +0100 Subject: FOSDEM 08 FEDORA SPEAKERS In-Reply-To: <3161376e0712140104p37aac262m956de8cfe7145307@mail.gmail.com> References: <3161376e0712140104p37aac262m956de8cfe7145307@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47628F27.50406@redhat.com> On 12/14/2007 10:04 AM, Frederic Hornain wrote: > Dear *, > > The Fedora speakers recruitment for FOSDEM 08 started few weeks ago > and I still not have any candidate from Fedora/Red Hat community > -except Pawel for a presentation of Fedora - > So, in order to be fair and nice with our friend of CentOs and FOSDEM > visitors, I would need proposals from you. > If you can spread the words... > > You can register at the Fedora FOSDEM 08 wiki page. > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/FOSDEM/FOSDEM2008 If we have any special hotel rates, etc. it might be useful to post. It would help people plan. :-) From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Dec 16 13:12:23 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:42:23 +0530 Subject: The search for a new Fedora leader Message-ID: <47652437.5060306@fedoraproject.org> Hi http://lwn.net/Articles/262142/ Max Spevack, who has led the Fedora project through a period of great change and improvement, has announced that the time has come to move on to other (Fedora-related) challenges. So the project is looking for a new leader. "The Fedora Project Leader is a full-time Red Hat position, and so we need to go through a full interview process, etc. None of this is being done ad-hoc or randomly. The Fedora Board is part of the process, as is Red Hat's CTO and other managers within the engineering organization and human resources." Rahul From fhornain at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 10:08:09 2007 From: fhornain at gmail.com (Frederic Hornain) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:08:09 +0100 Subject: FOSDEM 08 FEDORA SPEAKERS In-Reply-To: <47628F27.50406@redhat.com> References: <3161376e0712140104p37aac262m956de8cfe7145307@mail.gmail.com> <47628F27.50406@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3161376e0712170208i1d76773ai6a229e41d47a4411@mail.gmail.com> Christopher, A accommodation section has been added at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/FOSDEM/FOSDEM2008. Kind Regards Frederic Hornain Have fun with F8 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FredericHornain On Dec 14, 2007 3:11 PM, Christopher Aillon wrote: > On 12/14/2007 10:04 AM, Frederic Hornain wrote: > > Dear *, > > > > The Fedora speakers recruitment for FOSDEM 08 started few weeks ago > > and I still not have any candidate from Fedora/Red Hat community > > -except Pawel for a presentation of Fedora - > > So, in order to be fair and nice with our friend of CentOs and FOSDEM > > visitors, I would need proposals from you. > > If you can spread the words... > > > > You can register at the Fedora FOSDEM 08 wiki page. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/FOSDEM/FOSDEM2008 > > If we have any special hotel rates, etc. it might be useful to post. It > would help people plan. :-) > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- ----------------------------------------------------- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list at redhat.com Olpc mailing list olpc-open at laptop.org From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 17 14:24:43 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:54:43 +0530 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year Message-ID: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> Hi Do we have a overtly technical image? What we need to do to change it? http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20071217#news The positive: "Fedora was perhaps the most pleasant surprise of the year. Its two releases (versions 7 and 8) were well-received by reviewers and end users alike as it continued on its well-established, but highly innovative development path. Its new artwork team in particular deserves high marks for its work, but the effort spent merging the "core" and "extras" repositories before Fedora 7 and the growth of the volunteer developer community were equally impressive" Critique "But despite all these positives, the distribution still fails to attract first-time Linux users who sometimes complain about the lack of a central configuration utility or the overly technical nature of the operating system." Rahul From davidsonpaulo at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 15:48:43 2007 From: davidsonpaulo at gmail.com (Davidson Rodrigues Paulo) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:48:43 -0200 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: 2007/12/17, Rahul Sundaram : > "But despite all these positives, the distribution still fails to > attract first-time Linux users who sometimes complain about the lack of > a central configuration utility or the overly technical nature of the > operating system." I agree with the lack of a central configuration utility. Personally I don't miss it, but I have to admit that is not a good thing to have system configuration utilities placed in different locations. A good approach to solve this problem in my point of view is the system-config-control[1] utility, an interface to launch all the system-config-* utilities. [1] http://www.indianoss.org/modules/wfdownloads/viewcat.php?cid=10 Despite of this, I don't think Fedora overly technical, what happens is documentation is focused in CLI tools. You never see any doc saying "Click Applications, Add/Remove Software, go to Search tab, type "program", check to install the program and click Apply", but "Type # yum install program" instead. So, a new (end) user refering to our documentation will ever think "Ouch! How many commands! Much complicated for me..." Regards, Davidson Paulo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DavidsonPaulo From gdk at redhat.com Mon Dec 17 15:50:06 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:50:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Dec 2007, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Do we have a overtly technical image? Yes. > What we need to do to change it? Nothing. My $0.02, btw. Happy to hear other responses. :) --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From caillon at redhat.com Mon Dec 17 15:59:18 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:59:18 +0100 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> On 12/17/2007 03:24 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Critique > > "But despite all these positives, the distribution still fails to > attract first-time Linux users Really? I don't think this is true at all. who sometimes complain about the lack of > a central configuration utility Awesome! (Seriously.) Configuration is evil. With few exceptions, things should "Just Work" without needing configuration. See NetworkManager, gnome-power-manager, work we're doing with bluetooth, killing off xorg.conf, etc. etc. From fzied at dottn.com Mon Dec 17 16:15:56 2007 From: fzied at dottn.com (Zied Fakhfakh) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:15:56 +0100 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Dec 17, 2007 4:59 PM, Christopher Aillon wrote: > On 12/17/2007 03:24 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Critique > > > > "But despite all these positives, the distribution still fails to > > attract first-time Linux users > > Really? I don't think this is true at all. > > who sometimes complain about the lack of > > a central configuration utility > > Awesome! (Seriously.) Configuration is evil. With few exceptions, > things should "Just Work" without needing configuration. See > NetworkManager, gnome-power-manager, work we're doing with bluetooth, > killing off xorg.conf, etc. etc. But NetworkManager is not activated by default. it needs to be, and first time users do know about it > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > -- Zied Fakhfakh Dot TN - CTO Centre Molka, Esc E, Bur 17 | Tel : +216 71 886112 El Manar II | Fax : +216 71 885499 2092 - Tunis | mob : +216 22 535604 Tunisia | web : http://www.dottn.com GPG Key : gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys D2F4EE8C From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 17 16:14:29 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:44:29 +0530 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> Christopher Aillon wrote: > On 12/17/2007 03:24 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Critique >> >> "But despite all these positives, the distribution still fails to >> attract first-time Linux users > > Really? I don't think this is true at all. Even a lot of long time Fedora users don't seem to be thinking of Fedora as a newbie friendly distribution though and this is to some extend because our focus on the desktop has not been immediately evident. Most Fedora users still download the DVD where we don't even enable NetworkManager yet. We also have sacrificed many features like good webcam support (requires third party kernel modules like gspca) in favor of upstream focus which is a conscious trade off. If we are thinking of the next major milestones after the merge of Fedora Core and Extras and custom spins, a clearly conveyed focus (IMO on the client - desktop, laptops, embedded devices) is what we need. > who sometimes complain about the lack of >> a central configuration utility I have heard this as a complaint fairly often and Oracle even recently ported Yast from SUSE to RHEL (for "Unbreakable Linux") so there does seem to be some demand for it. > Awesome! (Seriously.) Configuration is evil. With few exceptions, > things should "Just Work" without needing configuration. See > NetworkManager, gnome-power-manager, work we're doing with bluetooth, > killing off xorg.conf, etc. etc. You are looking at this from the desktop perspective where you are right. Things like Postfix, Apache and Samba are always going to need tweaking in various circumstances. As a former sys admin who was managing data centers, I don't see configuration requirements just going away anytime soon on servers. We can make it easier but system-config-httpd doesn't seem to be the answer here. Microsoft Management Console goes way beyond that for example. Rahul From gdk at redhat.com Mon Dec 17 16:39:47 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:39:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Dec 2007, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Even a lot of long time Fedora users don't seem to be thinking of Fedora > as a newbie friendly distribution though and this is to some extend > because our focus on the desktop has not been immediately evident. Small steps every release. PackageKit is a great step. Codeina is a good step. Rootless install will be a good step. Encrypted homedirs will be a good step. > Most Fedora users still download the DVD where we don't even enable > NetworkManager yet. Which is a problem. Who's pitching in to fix it? "More NetworkManager" is already listed at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/FeatureList > We also have sacrificed many features like good webcam support (requires > third party kernel modules like gspca) in favor of upstream focus which > is a conscious trade off. One which we *should not* walk away from, btw. > If we are thinking of the next major milestones after the merge of Fedora > Core and Extras and custom spins, a clearly conveyed focus (IMO on the client > - desktop, laptops, embedded devices) is what we need. Want to know the direction? Look at the proposed feature set. Want to drive the direction? Propose features. :) http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/FeatureList > I have heard this as a complaint fairly often and Oracle even recently ported > Yast from SUSE to RHEL (for "Unbreakable Linux") so there does seem to be > some demand for it. Meh. Everyone will have their own opinions; my opinion is that YaST is an ugly hammer that breaks as much as it "simplifies". >> Awesome! (Seriously.) Configuration is evil. With few exceptions, things >> should "Just Work" without needing configuration. See NetworkManager, >> gnome-power-manager, work we're doing with bluetooth, killing off >> xorg.conf, etc. etc. > > You are looking at this from the desktop perspective where you are > right. Things like Postfix, Apache and Samba are always going to need > tweaking in various circumstances. As a former sys admin who was > managing data centers, I don't see configuration requirements just going > away anytime soon on servers. We can make it easier but > system-config-httpd doesn't seem to be the answer here. Microsoft > Management Console goes way beyond that for example. Desktop config tools are the 100% wrong approach to this problem. Highly customizable server/web-based config tools are the 100% right approach to this problem (which is, incidentally, a whole class of problems that are different for different admins.) Which is why func matters: https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/func/ But guess what? That has *nothing* to do with the newbie users to whom the reviewer alludes. --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From caillon at redhat.com Mon Dec 17 16:39:42 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:39:42 +0100 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> On 12/17/2007 05:14 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Christopher Aillon wrote: >> On 12/17/2007 03:24 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>> Critique >>> >>> "But despite all these positives, the distribution still fails to >>> attract first-time Linux users >> >> Really? I don't think this is true at all. > > Even a lot of long time Fedora users don't seem to be thinking of Fedora > as a newbie friendly distribution though and this is to some extend > because our focus on the desktop has not been immediately evident. Then we need people to tell the world. Our engineers should not have to hold this burden. They are doing an awesome job with coding up all the features. If other distros are getting credit for it, we need a better marketing effort. (For starters, the -marketing list is more of a -news-monitor list). I'm not saying anyone is specifically to blame, just stating the problem we have. I'd like to fix it. >> who sometimes complain about the lack of >>> a central configuration utility > > I have heard this as a complaint fairly often and Oracle even recently > ported Yast from SUSE to RHEL (for "Unbreakable Linux") so there does > seem to be some demand for it. > >> Awesome! (Seriously.) Configuration is evil. With few exceptions, >> things should "Just Work" without needing configuration. See >> NetworkManager, gnome-power-manager, work we're doing with bluetooth, >> killing off xorg.conf, etc. etc. > > You are looking at this from the desktop perspective where you are > right. I am looking from the perspective the review touched on. If they are going to say first time linux newbies don't like the lack of configuration, chances are they just want a desktop and NOT configuration crap. You can't compare people that want a config utility for apache, etc. in the same sentence as linux newbies that just want things to work. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 17 16:43:58 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:13:58 +0530 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> Christopher Aillon wrote: > > Then we need people to tell the world. Our engineers should not have to > hold this burden. They are doing an awesome job with coding up all the > features. It wouldn't be a burden to tell the world that we are doing what we are doing then. One simple way to do this it to just blog more often. Our engineers do that sometimes but way less than ideal. I still find a lot of information for the release summary and notes from the dry rawhide changelogs and sometimes have no clue to the extend they impact the end user experience but the people do the changes obviously know it but aren't talking about it much. Our users aren't going to be excited about features if we aren't in a very visible manner. Marketing for free software works is rather odd ways. Rahul From caillon at redhat.com Mon Dec 17 17:27:46 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:27:46 +0100 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> On 12/17/2007 05:43 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Christopher Aillon wrote: >> >> Then we need people to tell the world. Our engineers should not have >> to hold this burden. They are doing an awesome job with coding up all >> the features. > > It wouldn't be a burden to tell the world that we are doing what we are > doing then. One simple way to do this it to just blog more often. Our > engineers do that sometimes but way less than ideal. NURRRRRR. BZZZZZT. WRONG WRONG WRONG. If an engineer happens to take time out of their busy lives, and time away from doing awesome feature work for Fedora 9, then consider it a bonus. Expecting this from any engineer is just insane. The ideal situation is we have people that care about Fedora that may not necessarily be technical that will create buzz for the engineers who don't necessarily have perfect verbal/hype skills. These are two completely different skill sets. Don't confuse them. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 17 17:35:25 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:05:25 +0530 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4766B35D.9020107@fedoraproject.org> Christopher Aillon wrote: >> It wouldn't be a burden to tell the world that we are doing what we >> are doing then. One simple way to do this it to just blog more often. >> Our engineers do that sometimes but way less than ideal. > > NURRRRRR. BZZZZZT. WRONG WRONG WRONG. > > If an engineer happens to take time out of their busy lives, and time > away from doing awesome feature work for Fedora 9, then consider it a > bonus. Expecting this from any engineer is just insane. I completely disagree. Other distributions have done a fairly good job in marketing themselves via developers and it is critically important to their successes. The community can't create the buzz for them if they don't know such features exist in the first place which is frequently the case with Fedora. Kickstart the effort initially and others can pick it up once they realize that the features exist and what benefits it brings. Feature process is one way to do it. Blogging is another. We have big gaps in either. I am happy to hear other ideas to improve the situation though. Rahul From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Mon Dec 17 17:49:54 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:49:54 +0000 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1197913794.2752.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> > > It wouldn't be a burden to tell the world that we are doing what we are > > doing then. One simple way to do this it to just blog more often. Our > > engineers do that sometimes but way less than ideal. > > NURRRRRR. BZZZZZT. WRONG WRONG WRONG. > > If an engineer happens to take time out of their busy lives, and time > away from doing awesome feature work for Fedora 9, then consider it a > bonus. Expecting this from any engineer is just insane. > > The ideal situation is we have people that care about Fedora that may > not necessarily be technical that will create buzz for the engineers who > don't necessarily have perfect verbal/hype skills. These are two > completely different skill sets. Don't confuse them. Which is exactly what we started to try and do last release with the interviews. I think some of them were pretty successful too with 4/5 hitting the front page of digg and getting several hundred diggs. Of course this relied on the engineers giving a bit of their time to answer questions but it definitely worked. Also, I think it's important to note that Fedora's image is making progress. The latest Linux Format (available in the UK and the US I think) had this to say: "...thinks Fedora 8 knocks the stuffing out of Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon"; "In fact we'd even go as far to say that Fedora is a real threat to Ubuntu now that they've largely caught up with Ubuntu in terms of user-friendlyness and ease of use". I still think we can do an even better job at highlighting the great work that our developers do, the new features they create and how this gets into upstream! But let's also remember that we are *definitely* making progress in this regard!!! I'll start a new thread later on about things that we can do to keep improving in this regard, because while it's useful to be aware of mis-perceptions etc it's far more productive to talk about what we can specifically do that will keep improving the Feodra Marketing effort... Best wishes all, Jon > From caillon at redhat.com Mon Dec 17 17:54:39 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:54:39 +0100 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <4766B35D.9020107@fedoraproject.org> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> <4766B35D.9020107@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4766B7DF.40109@redhat.com> On 12/17/2007 06:35 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Christopher Aillon wrote: >>> It wouldn't be a burden to tell the world that we are doing what we >>> are doing then. One simple way to do this it to just blog more often. >>> Our engineers do that sometimes but way less than ideal. >> >> NURRRRRR. BZZZZZT. WRONG WRONG WRONG. >> >> If an engineer happens to take time out of their busy lives, and time >> away from doing awesome feature work for Fedora 9, then consider it a >> bonus. Expecting this from any engineer is just insane. > > I completely disagree. Other distributions have done a fairly good job > in marketing themselves via developers and it is critically important to > their successes. The community can't create the buzz for them if they > don't know such features exist in the first place which is frequently > the case with Fedora. Has it ever occured to you that maybe our engineering team is better because we're focused on doing real, actual work instead of blogging about how awesome we are like certain other distros? Having engineers do the job of a marketing team may work short term to gather hype, but it comes at a huge cost. From caillon at redhat.com Mon Dec 17 17:58:06 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:58:06 +0100 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <1197913794.2752.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> <1197913794.2752.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4766B8AE.9070300@redhat.com> On 12/17/2007 06:49 PM, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > I still think we can do an even better job at highlighting the great > work that our developers do, the new features they create and how this > gets into upstream! But let's also remember that we are *definitely* > making progress in this regard!!! Absolutely. And I didn't mean to slight the work that you or others are doing in this front. Thanks for the work, it really is appreciated. > > I'll start a new thread later on about things that we can do to keep > improving in this regard, because while it's useful to be aware of > mis-perceptions etc it's far more productive to talk about what we can > specifically do that will keep improving the Feodra Marketing effort... Agreed. Thanks. From sudheer.s at binaryvibes.co.in Mon Dec 17 17:59:59 2007 From: sudheer.s at binaryvibes.co.in (Sudheer Satyanarayana) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:29:59 +0530 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <4766B35D.9020107@fedoraproject.org> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> <4766B35D.9020107@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4766B91F.8080508@binaryvibes.co.in> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Christopher Aillon wrote: >>> It wouldn't be a burden to tell the world that we are doing what we >>> are doing then. One simple way to do this it to just blog more >>> often. Our engineers do that sometimes but way less than ideal. >> >> NURRRRRR. BZZZZZT. WRONG WRONG WRONG. >> >> If an engineer happens to take time out of their busy lives, and time >> away from doing awesome feature work for Fedora 9, then consider it a >> bonus. Expecting this from any engineer is just insane. > If engineers start blogging(more) it would definitely be a big bonus to the community. But expecting them to do so is really not insane. > I completely disagree. Other distributions have done a fairly good job > in marketing themselves via developers and it is critically important > to their successes. The community can't create the buzz for them if > they don't know such features exist in the first place which is > frequently the case with Fedora. > > Kickstart the effort initially and others can pick it up once they > realize that the features exist and what benefits it brings. Feature > process is one way to do it. Blogging is another. We have big gaps in > either. I am happy to hear other ideas to improve the situation though. > > Rahul > Some engineers might need the extra push. Engineers who are already blogging can probably consider writing more about features. This will sure help others learn more about the features. Digging out the developers' views might add a different dimension altogether. Just my two cents. -- Thanks and regards, Sudheer Satyanarayana http://binaryvibes.co.in From foss.mailinglists at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 18:09:10 2007 From: foss.mailinglists at gmail.com (Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:39:10 +0530 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4766BB46.2090601@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Do we have a overtly technical image? What we need to do to change it? Yes and let's not start hiding it. We need to talk more about the small but important improvements that have been happening. Any desktop user who desires to preserve sanity would cherish incremental improvements over mere bling - -- http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHZrtFXQZpNTcrCzMRAng/AJ962Nxr7gw7CZPyPPLPVCrE/TnjBACaA3gU RKO5TZBLfgOCTcJZWoOGXrA= =+mEp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From poelstra at redhat.com Mon Dec 17 18:24:26 2007 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:24:26 -0800 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4766BEDA.7040509@redhat.com> Christopher Aillon said the following on 12/17/2007 09:27 AM Pacific Time: > On 12/17/2007 05:43 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Christopher Aillon wrote: >>> >>> Then we need people to tell the world. Our engineers should not have >>> to hold this burden. They are doing an awesome job with coding up >>> all the features. >> >> It wouldn't be a burden to tell the world that we are doing what we >> are doing then. One simple way to do this it to just blog more often. >> Our engineers do that sometimes but way less than ideal. > > NURRRRRR. BZZZZZT. WRONG WRONG WRONG. > > If an engineer happens to take time out of their busy lives, and time > away from doing awesome feature work for Fedora 9, then consider it a > bonus. Expecting this from any engineer is just insane. Even if it would be helpful? > The ideal situation is we have people that care about Fedora that may > not necessarily be technical that will create buzz for the engineers who > don't necessarily have perfect verbal/hype skills. These are two > completely different skill sets. Don't confuse them. > This isn't a viable solution. How will these not-so-technical people get this information without the help of a mind-reading module? If you assert that less technical people fill this role it is not reasonable to expect them to read source code and change logs. If you aren't willing to communicate with them, how can they get this information? Many of the developers have done a great job creating feature pages and these help a lot... I realize we share a different opinion on the value of the feature pages :) John From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 17 18:23:57 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:53:57 +0530 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <4766B7DF.40109@redhat.com> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> <4766B35D.9020107@fedoraproject.org> <4766B7DF.40109@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4766BEBD.7090101@fedoraproject.org> Christopher Aillon wrote: > > Has it ever occured to you that maybe our engineering team is better > because we're focused on doing real, actual work instead of blogging > about how awesome we are like certain other distros? Having engineers > do the job of a marketing team may work short term to gather hype, but > it comes at a huge cost. Our team does a good job which is awesome and has not been able to communicate well to others the good job that they are doing which is a very sad thing since it leads to the perception that we aren't doing much desktop work at all. I hope the team is giving this some thought and has answers beyond letting others figure it all out somehow. With Free software, the line between developers, testers, users and marketing folks often blurs. In Fedora, the "marketing team" is just a bunch of loosely organized volunteers including developers. That might be a bit troublesome to deal with it but we need to consider the feature process, blogging etc as part of our work too instead of deviation from "real work". This provides more transparency to the community. Look at the effect it had on PackageKit. I don't think I have much more to say on this and will stop here. Rahul From gdk at redhat.com Mon Dec 17 18:46:01 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:46:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <4766B91F.8080508@binaryvibes.co.in> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> <4766B35D.9020107@fedoraproject.org> <4766B91F.8080508@binaryvibes.co.in> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Dec 2007, Sudheer Satyanarayana wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Christopher Aillon wrote: >>>> It wouldn't be a burden to tell the world that we are doing what we are >>>> doing then. One simple way to do this it to just blog more often. Our >>>> engineers do that sometimes but way less than ideal. >>> >>> NURRRRRR. BZZZZZT. WRONG WRONG WRONG. >>> >>> If an engineer happens to take time out of their busy lives, and time away >>> from doing awesome feature work for Fedora 9, then consider it a bonus. >>> Expecting this from any engineer is just insane. >> > If engineers start blogging(more) it would definitely be a big bonus to the > community. But expecting them to do so is really not insane. >> I completely disagree. Other distributions have done a fairly good job in >> marketing themselves via developers and it is critically important to their >> successes. The community can't create the buzz for them if they don't know >> such features exist in the first place which is frequently the case with >> Fedora. >> >> Kickstart the effort initially and others can pick it up once they realize >> that the features exist and what benefits it brings. Feature process is one >> way to do it. Blogging is another. We have big gaps in either. I am happy >> to hear other ideas to improve the situation though. >> >> Rahul >> > Some engineers might need the extra push. Engineers who are already blogging > can probably consider writing more about features. This will sure help others > learn more about the features. Digging out the developers' views might add a > different dimension altogether. > > Just my two cents. Rule #1 for community building: Ask people to do what they like doing. Do not ask people to do what they do not like doing. --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From mukul.dharwadkar at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 18:46:03 2007 From: mukul.dharwadkar at gmail.com (Mukul Dharwadkar) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 12:46:03 -0600 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <4766BEDA.7040509@redhat.com> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> <4766BEDA.7040509@redhat.com> Message-ID: For a long time I have been contemplating this with no clear thoughts coming out. Recently some of the thoughts have crystallized. Please bear with me if they are not very coherent. I have spent enough time with Linux (Redhat and then Fedora and also Ubuntu) to find my way. Even though I may not know exactly what to do, I can generally search it and figure it out. I was thinking on the lines of splitting the distribution in the middle with a pure desktop component for end users and a fully loaded one for geeky types. Really speaking why would a end user need sendmail to be running on the computer and that's just an example. I believe we need a plain vanilla kind of a spin with all the essential tools and goodies needed and one spin where you can customize to your hearts content (just like the current distro). If you give too many choices to the user's they often end up making the wrong choices and screwing up which again will deter the adoption rate. It is not an excuse to say that we are not organized. If we want Linux to be accepted and become main stream we have to get organized with clearly defined roles and responsibilities. And add some chutzpah to the OS while we are at it. People are attracted to shiny and smooth things no matter how worthless they might be. While I am not saying Linux is worthless (quite the contrary) I would say that while developing the new version ease of use should be the foremost concern with security in mind (though certainly not Windows Vista style security!!!). I can go on rambling. But this is in nutshell what I think. They will be disagreements. On 12/17/07, John Poelstra wrote: > > Christopher Aillon said the following on 12/17/2007 09:27 AM Pacific Time: > > On 12/17/2007 05:43 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Christopher Aillon wrote: > >>> > >>> Then we need people to tell the world. Our engineers should not have > >>> to hold this burden. They are doing an awesome job with coding up > >>> all the features. > >> > >> It wouldn't be a burden to tell the world that we are doing what we > >> are doing then. One simple way to do this it to just blog more often. > >> Our engineers do that sometimes but way less than ideal. > > > > NURRRRRR. BZZZZZT. WRONG WRONG WRONG. > > > > If an engineer happens to take time out of their busy lives, and time > > away from doing awesome feature work for Fedora 9, then consider it a > > bonus. Expecting this from any engineer is just insane. > > Even if it would be helpful? > > > The ideal situation is we have people that care about Fedora that may > > not necessarily be technical that will create buzz for the engineers who > > don't necessarily have perfect verbal/hype skills. These are two > > completely different skill sets. Don't confuse them. > > > > This isn't a viable solution. > > How will these not-so-technical people get this information without the > help of a mind-reading module? If you assert that less technical people > fill this role it is not reasonable to expect them to read source code > and change logs. If you aren't willing to communicate with them, how > can they get this information? > > Many of the developers have done a great job creating feature pages and > these help a lot... I realize we share a different opinion on the value > of the feature pages :) > > John > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Smile!!! :) It improves your face value... Visit me at http://www.dharwadkar.com http://www.dharwadkar.org Sister Site: http://www.saraswatibhuvan.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdk at redhat.com Mon Dec 17 18:50:53 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:50:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <4766BEBD.7090101@fedoraproject.org> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> <4766B35D.9020107@fedoraproject.org> <4766B7DF.40109@redhat.com> <4766BEBD.7090101@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Dec 2007, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > With Free software, the line between developers, testers, users and > marketing folks often blurs. In Fedora, the "marketing team" is just a > bunch of loosely organized volunteers including developers. That might > be a bit troublesome to deal with it but we need to consider the feature > process, blogging etc as part of our work too instead of deviation from > "real work". Wait a minute. Feature planning is, of course, part of the "real work" of engineering, and no engineer I know would claim otherwise. I certainly didn't see caillon say anything like "feature planning is a waste of my time." Blogging can certainly be useful in gathering momentum around an idea, yes. But that doesn't mean it should be compulsory. --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From caillon at redhat.com Mon Dec 17 18:49:55 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:49:55 +0100 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <4766BEDA.7040509@redhat.com> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> <4766BEDA.7040509@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4766C4D3.2080703@redhat.com> On 12/17/2007 07:24 PM, John Poelstra wrote: > Christopher Aillon said the following on 12/17/2007 09:27 AM Pacific Time: >> On 12/17/2007 05:43 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>> Christopher Aillon wrote: >>>> >>>> Then we need people to tell the world. Our engineers should not >>>> have to hold this burden. They are doing an awesome job with coding >>>> up all the features. >>> >>> It wouldn't be a burden to tell the world that we are doing what we >>> are doing then. One simple way to do this it to just blog more often. >>> Our engineers do that sometimes but way less than ideal. >> >> NURRRRRR. BZZZZZT. WRONG WRONG WRONG. >> >> If an engineer happens to take time out of their busy lives, and time >> away from doing awesome feature work for Fedora 9, then consider it a >> bonus. Expecting this from any engineer is just insane. > > Even if it would be helpful? It would also be helpful if everyone filed bugs with patches. :-) Thing is, there's helpful, and there's expecting it. It's nice when someone does the blogging thing. I'll agree 100%. I'm very much against the notion some people have that when people aren't, the developers are lazy or not doing their jobs or whatever. It's not really a secret that many hackers have some social dysfunctions. Some don't feel comfortable with their grammar. Some people really feel it's not their job to write articles. Or just don't have the ability to turn a paragraph into something that sounds awesome. I've seen some really lousy marketing done by people who are PAID to do marketing. But engineers do provide updates, on the feature pages. And they will answer questions if asked on IRC. I think it would be great if the community reached out to the engineers, since the engineers are reaching out to the community by way of the code they write. Find one on IRC, ask about your favorite project. Tell him you'd like to blog about it. Maybe do an interview. Keep in mind that if you expect just the engineers to blog about it, we're limiting our contributor base, and we're limiting our marketing efforts to "when an engineer has time". We have a lot of smart people in the community and project, and they can help spread the word just as well as an engineer can. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 17 18:52:30 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 00:22:30 +0530 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> <4766B35D.9020107@fedoraproject.org> <4766B7DF.40109@redhat.com> <4766BEBD.7090101@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4766C56E.8020706@fedoraproject.org> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > On Mon, 17 Dec 2007, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> With Free software, the line between developers, testers, users and >> marketing folks often blurs. In Fedora, the "marketing team" is just a >> bunch of loosely organized volunteers including developers. That might >> be a bit troublesome to deal with it but we need to consider the >> feature process, blogging etc as part of our work too instead of >> deviation from "real work". > > Wait a minute. > > Feature planning is, of course, part of the "real work" of engineering, > and no engineer I know would claim otherwise. I certainly didn't see > caillon say anything like "feature planning is a waste of my time." I certainly got that impression that some developers consider the feature process as a distraction from "real work" too just like some consider blogging or anything that isn't directly source code as not too useful and I do remember my suggestion within the Fedora Board to layout a roadmap was considered infeasible at that time due to the culture we had and it has taken a long time to change that mindset a bit and we still have ways to go. If you are working on something, do consider providing some information on what it is through whatever means possible beyond just source code or cryptic changelogs. Rahul From caillon at redhat.com Mon Dec 17 19:04:48 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:04:48 +0100 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <4766C56E.8020706@fedoraproject.org> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> <4766B35D.9020107@fedoraproject.org> <4766B7DF.40109@redhat.com> <4766BEBD.7090101@fedoraproject.org> <4766C56E.8020706@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4766C850.5020004@redhat.com> On 12/17/2007 07:52 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Wait a minute. >> >> Feature planning is, of course, part of the "real work" of >> engineering, and no engineer I know would claim otherwise. I >> certainly didn't see caillon say anything like "feature planning is a >> waste of my time." > > I certainly got that impression that some developers consider the > feature process as a distraction from "real work" too just like some For the record, the first iteration of the feature process needed work. There was feedback and we (FESCo) revamped the feature process this time around, and I hear much better things from people who complained to me the loudest. From stickster at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 19:11:57 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:11:57 -0500 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> <4766B35D.9020107@fedoraproject.org> <4766B7DF.40109@redhat.com> <4766BEBD.7090101@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1197918717.2955.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 13:50 -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > On Mon, 17 Dec 2007, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > With Free software, the line between developers, testers, users and > > marketing folks often blurs. In Fedora, the "marketing team" is just a > > bunch of loosely organized volunteers including developers. That might > > be a bit troublesome to deal with it but we need to consider the feature > > process, blogging etc as part of our work too instead of deviation from > > "real work". > > Wait a minute. > > Feature planning is, of course, part of the "real work" of engineering, > and no engineer I know would claim otherwise. I certainly didn't see > caillon say anything like "feature planning is a waste of my time." > > Blogging can certainly be useful in gathering momentum around an idea, > yes. But that doesn't mean it should be compulsory. Especially not when we have non-engineer attendees at FUDCon who could take it upon themselves to listen to what's being said, and use that information to kickstart these information feeds. This is a major back-end consideration in Karsten Wade's idea of Release Notes "beats." For those who haven't heard the term yet (!), a "beat" is a subject matter area that a journalist or reporter covers. Only covering a small handful of subjects (or maybe even only one) and then spreading the work over many reporters makes the information more accurate, since the reporter can get to know more about his or her beat over time. FWN also took up this design and I think everyone will see it's done wonders for their ability to cover lots of different Fedora areas of interest. Perhaps Marketing team members should get more involved in this kind of beat writing, whether it's by participating in the Release Notes process (which the Docs team is happy to edit for consistency of content, as we have continued to do for many releases), or some other channel. I should note that Rahul does a LOT for the Release Notes, and it would be nice to see him get some assistance so he's not doing so much lifting by himself at the last minute for every release. You can read more about Release Notes at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/HowTo . -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ljuwaida at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 17 19:12:18 2007 From: ljuwaida at fedoraproject.org (Laith Juwaidah) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:12:18 +0400 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <4766BEBD.7090101@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200712172312.31549.ljuwaida@fedoraproject.org> I did talk about a review in Linux Format with some members in the devel channel, it had the same complain: No central configuration tool. They all said that System > Preferences is good enough. Well, it doesn't really matter for me if there is a central configuration tool or not, and I'm sure it doesn't to any of you, but it does for Linux new commers, they might not like to delve in menus and try each and every option to see what it does, they probably just want to configure their systems. Look at Kubuntu (which I, honestly, would advise to any Linux new commer) it has a configuration tool, they even removed kcontrol from KDE menu (which I don't think is a good thing), but the idea is that they do, you can configure wine from there (mentioning wine, I installed it today, and it messed my root filesystem, Fedora didn't boot, it tried to run fsck but it failed, I got the resque prompt, I had to run fsck manually and answer questions that would just freak new comers out (though, all the answers were yes :P)). All distros have the System > Preferences menu, yet, they have a central configuration menu, if that is what users want, why don't we give it to them? We can make it a package by itself so that those who don't want it can remove it! I really don't see the point, we want more people to use Fedora, yet, we're not giving them what they want/are asking for, after all, the customer (user) is always right! Cheers! -- Laith Juwaidah http://www.ljuwaidah.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Mon Dec 17 19:19:19 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:19:19 +0000 Subject: Where to go with marketing next?! Message-ID: <1197919159.2702.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey all, So, following on from the previous thread, I think it would be useful to try and figure out what the marketing team is currently doing well, what we're doing less well, and what we can do in the immediate future (i.e. the next month) to improve. I realised this was long and rambly, here's a brief conclusion: So, in summary: digg more, try and focus our efforts together a bit more if possible (i.e. FWN CMS or something similar), and pick up the work of picking out features and builiding press for them earlier in the release cycles. What do peole think? What ever you think, I think we should "just do it" and become pragmatists! Here are some of my immediate thoughts in longer form: What we're doing well: - keeping a tab on all of Fedora's coverage in places - FWN I would count as marketing and I think do a great job - the interviews for F8 I think were good - the release summaries are also super What we're doing less well: - Getting stories about Fedora out to the press as a whole (I know there's been some threads about this, particularly with regard to working with Red Hat to get more press releases done) - "viral" marketing: would be cool to see Fedora turning up in more people's blogs and more on places like Digg and Slashdot - Not enough talk to with developers How we can improve immediately over the coming months: - There's talk of setting up some kind of CMS for FWN that will allow comments, regular blog posts etc? I think this would be awesome, as although the weekly summaries as they are rock, one place where we can post interviews, news as it emerges, weekly summaries would generate a lot more buzz than it being spread out all over - I think. - The above is useless if we don't do more to talk with developers and find out what we should be talking about! Maybe if we accept that they might not want to blog etc and just monitor feature pages, chat/e-mail developers regularly when the feature pages show something worthwhile talking about! - Places like Digg and Slashdot are community based, they have the idea that you'll want to digg stories similar to your friends - i.e. other Fedora users. We should try and make better use of this and put out more shouts and submit more Fedora related stories :D All the stuff that we get sent to the marketing-list about Fedora in the news, we should be digging these stories as well (heh, at least the positive ones!) From gdk at redhat.com Mon Dec 17 19:26:27 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:26:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <200712172312.31549.ljuwaida@fedoraproject.org> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <4766BEBD.7090101@fedoraproject.org> <200712172312.31549.ljuwaida@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Dec 2007, Laith Juwaidah wrote: > All distros have the System > Preferences menu, yet, they have a central > configuration menu, if that is what users want, why don't we give it to > them? We can make it a package by itself so that those who don't want it > can remove it! Patches welcome. Look, it's a matter of who is willing to do the work. I hear the occasional person say "gee, we should have something more like YaST." But then when someone says "well, why don't you port YaST to Fedora?" the conversation suddenly stops. Why don't other Fedora engineers do the work? Because other Fedora engineers are working on things that they are passionate about. And a YaST clone isn't really on that list. So go make it happen. And if you're not actually an engineer, that's fine; go find someone who is an engineer, agrees with you, and volunteer to be the guy who does testing and documentation, and then go blog all about how awesome FaST is. :) --g (Warning: it's an unholy bitch to keep a tool like YaST working properly as things change -- inevitable as you increase the layers of code indirection. And when YaST breaks something, YaST breaks it all to pieces. That's the bit that YaST fans never talk about.) -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From stickster at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 19:27:29 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:27:29 -0500 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <4766BEDA.7040509@redhat.com> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <47669CD6.9030002@redhat.com> <4766A065.3060801@fedoraproject.org> <4766A64E.6010603@redhat.com> <4766A74E.2090508@fedoraproject.org> <4766B192.7040101@redhat.com> <4766BEDA.7040509@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1197919649.2955.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 10:24 -0800, John Poelstra wrote: > Christopher Aillon said the following on 12/17/2007 09:27 AM Pacific Time: > > The ideal situation is we have people that care about Fedora that may > > not necessarily be technical that will create buzz for the engineers who > > don't necessarily have perfect verbal/hype skills. These are two > > completely different skill sets. Don't confuse them. > > > > This isn't a viable solution. > > How will these not-so-technical people get this information without the > help of a mind-reading module? If you assert that less technical people > fill this role it is not reasonable to expect them to read source code > and change logs. If you aren't willing to communicate with them, how > can they get this information? > > Many of the developers have done a great job creating feature pages and > these help a lot... I realize we share a different opinion on the value > of the feature pages :) Interestingly, I had recent occasion to hook up an online writer with a developer in our community, and that worked out well. Although I'm sure the developer in question took some time out of his coding to answer questions, I think he saw the value was going to be in publicizing his work so it would get more notice, use, testing, etc. And here was someone who would do all (well OK, at least *part*) of the publicizing for him! Part of the act of publicizing involves composition, which is really what takes the time away from coding. To make a message clear requires time and thought on matters of word choice, sentence structure, and overall thought progressions expressed in written language. I can't speak for any engineers in specific or general, but if they want their message to get out properly, why not trust that work to someone who specializes in working with written language? I guess it's a little like getting an expert Tcl guy to write the bindings for your C library. You'd do that, if you didn't want to take the time out to learn enough Tcl to do it yourself. As Greg said, to a very great extent you want people working on what they want to work on -- it sets a high morale level and improves overall effectiveness. If everyone wants to do the same thing, that gets a little dicey, but fortunately we have many different subproject areas to spread our efforts more evenly. The Marketing project is here to "develop process and content" to "support the efforts of other Fedora projects," according to its wiki page. Instead of asking how engineers can do what some are obviously not that interested in doing, let's talk about how Marketing can improve the situation by making its own contribution. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ljuwaida at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 17 19:44:03 2007 From: ljuwaida at fedoraproject.org (Laith Juwaidah) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:44:03 +0400 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> <200712172312.31549.ljuwaida@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200712172344.36116.ljuwaida@fedoraproject.org> On Monday 17 December 2007 23:26:27 Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > On Mon, 17 Dec 2007, Laith Juwaidah wrote: > > All distros have the System > Preferences menu, yet, they have a central > > configuration menu, if that is what users want, why don't we give it to > > them? We can make it a package by itself so that those who don't want it > > can remove it! > > Patches welcome. > > Look, it's a matter of who is willing to do the work. I hear the > occasional person say "gee, we should have something more like YaST." But > then when someone says "well, why don't you port YaST to Fedora?" the > conversation suddenly stops. Of course, it shouldn't be a port of YaST, it should be our configuration tool, not some other distro's. > > Why don't other Fedora engineers do the work? Because other Fedora > engineers are working on things that they are passionate about. And a > YaST clone isn't really on that list. In my openion, porting stuff is dull! > > So go make it happen. And if you're not actually an engineer, that's > fine; go find someone who is an engineer, agrees with you, and volunteer > to be the guy who does testing and documentation, and then go blog all > about how awesome FaST is. :) I don't mind doing that... I just want to make sure that if I do create one it will be used and I won't find people saying "But we don't need a central configuration tool!". PS: They do need a port called FaST; YaST is really slow! > > --g > > (Warning: it's an unholy bitch to keep a tool like YaST working properly > as things change -- inevitable as you increase the layers of code > indirection. And when YaST breaks something, YaST breaks it all to > pieces. That's the bit that YaST fans never talk about.) > > -- > Greg DeKoenigsberg > Community Development Manager > Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 > "To whomsoever much hath been given... > ...from him much shall be asked" -- Laith Juwaidah http://www.ljuwaidah.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From caillon at redhat.com Mon Dec 17 21:49:50 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:49:50 +0100 Subject: Where to go with marketing next?! In-Reply-To: <1197919159.2702.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197919159.2702.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4766EEFE.3020605@redhat.com> Thanks for the writeup! On 12/17/2007 08:19 PM, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > So, in summary: digg more, try and focus our efforts together a bit more > if possible (i.e. FWN CMS or something similar), and pick up the work of > picking out features and builiding press for them earlier in the release > cycles. > > What do peole think? What ever you think, I think we should "just do it" > and become pragmatists! Here are some of my immediate thoughts in longer > form: Yes, please. Just Do It. Seriously. I think we can all get behind a better marketing effort. More importantly, having a focus and set goals is good. > What we're doing less well: > > - Getting stories about Fedora out to the press as a whole (I know > there's been some threads about this, particularly with regard to > working with Red Hat to get more press releases done) Hope this gets done. > - "viral" marketing: would be cool to see Fedora turning up in more > people's blogs and more on places like Digg and Slashdot > - Not enough talk to with developers > > How we can improve immediately over the coming months: > > - There's talk of setting up some kind of CMS for FWN that will allow > comments, regular blog posts etc? I think this would be awesome, as > although the weekly summaries as they are rock, one place where we can > post interviews, news as it emerges, weekly summaries would generate a > lot more buzz than it being spread out all over - I think. > > - The above is useless if we don't do more to talk with developers and > find out what we should be talking about! Maybe if we accept that they > might not want to blog etc and just monitor feature pages, chat/e-mail > developers regularly when the feature pages show something worthwhile > talking about! This is something that I strongly feel will provide a large amount of value. Sitting down an putting one's thoughts in a clear and easy to read manner is sometimes difficult, as you noted earlier. I believe that people want to tell people about how awesome XYZ is, but maybe aren't sure how. Helping out in this way is great because it will help put these thoughts down in a way for others to consume, hopefully increase the number of people participating, and strengthen the relationship between community members. > > - Places like Digg and Slashdot are community based, they have the idea > that you'll want to digg stories similar to your friends - i.e. other > Fedora users. We should try and make better use of this and put out more > shouts and submit more Fedora related stories :D All the stuff that we > get sent to the marketing-list about Fedora in the news, we should be > digging these stories as well (heh, at least the positive ones!) And maybe some blogs pointing to the stories, too. Exciting stuff! From kamisamanou at kamisamanou.net Tue Dec 18 00:48:16 2007 From: kamisamanou at kamisamanou.net (Kamisamanou Burgess) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:48:16 -0600 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora this year In-Reply-To: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> References: <476686AB.4080702@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <5dbb83710712171648n26d2d44fl961e4c895bb05f8d@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 17, 2007 8:24 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Do we have a overly technical image? What we need to do to change it? > Rahul > > In short: Yes and nothing Longer: We are a very technical distribution, but it's the nature of the current designers and users causing that. We could make Fedora more amateur friendly, but I feel it would be at the expense of the pleasure those of us who like to do things our way. I already uninstall most of the graphical utilitie(s) for yum that I can. It's also important to note that being the progressive distribution we are, there are going to be things that might not work as expected, which is often frustrating to new users. The current Fedora userbase is, however, a group of driven individuals that appear to enjoy making things work and sharing what they've done. This drive is demonstrated in the many tutorials that are quickly posted to the forums at fedoraforum.org. This is simply my observations and opinions compounded into one idea. -- Sayonara, Kamisamanou Burgess http://www.kamisamanou.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Dec 18 00:53:32 2007 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:53:32 -0800 Subject: FUDCon Marketing? In-Reply-To: <1197567586.2688.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> <47615A6C.8010004@redhat.com> <47615D68.50404@redhat.com> <1197567586.2688.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <47671A0C.3070904@redhat.com> Jonathan Roberts said the following on 12/13/2007 09:39 AM Pacific Time: > I've made a version which says "11-13 Jan 2008" if anybody thinks that's > any better: > > http://questionsplease.org/fedora/fudcon-date-banner.png > Looks great! I was just afraid someone would read it as 2008 without taking the time to find out exactly when. Thanks, John From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Dec 18 00:55:31 2007 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:55:31 -0800 Subject: FUDCon Marketing? In-Reply-To: <47615A6C.8010004@redhat.com> References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> <47615A6C.8010004@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47671A83.5040904@redhat.com> Mike McGrath said the following on 12/13/2007 08:14 AM Pacific Time: > John Poelstra wrote: >> I thought Mike McGrath started a good idea with the thread about a >> banner ad... what else are we doing to spread the word about FUDCon? >> I haven't seen any external press. > > For those that haven't seen it we do have a fudcon banner rotating on > http://fedoraproject.org/ refresh it a few times. Its a new mechanism > for us so if you don't see it or its broken let us know. > > -Mike > Can we rotate in the new banner that has the exact dates of FUDCon? Thanks, John From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Dec 18 01:00:37 2007 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:00:37 -0800 Subject: FUDCon Marketing? In-Reply-To: <1197493389.6049.18.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> <475FF684.904@redhat.com> <1197493389.6049.18.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <47671BB5.6090609@redhat.com> Karsten Wade said the following on 12/12/2007 01:03 PM Pacific Time: > Here's an initial draft. Once we have consensus, we can move it over to > the RHT press blog. I *think* I am a writer on that blog, so I can do > the byline if Kerri et al wish. > > I wrote this from a personal viewpoint, since that is the flavor at > www.press.redhat.com, which I happen to agree with. :) But the facts > should be general. Also, if anyone has a better approach, go for it! > In fact, we could publish several postings from several perspectives. > It looks good. I say send it out! Thanks for taking the time to write it up. John > ### begin > > The FUDCon (Fedora > User and Developer Conference) has once again sprung to life, this time > coming to Raleigh, NC 11 to 13 January 2008 for a meeting of the minds > near Red Hat HQ. Sign > up is easy and zero cost. If you can get yourself to > Raleigh, you are welcome to attend. We're serious. Come. > > Started a few years ago as a grassroots conference with a bootstrappers > budget, FUDCon has slowly grown in size and importance. These days at a > FUDCon, decisions are made about the next few releases of Fedora, > hackfests are held to produce code, content, and design, and leaders, > doers, and users meet to talk about just what they want. > > Past > FUDCons were held in Boston ( href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDConBoston2007">2007, > href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDConBoston2006">2006, > 2005), href="">Berlin, href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDConBrussels2007">Brussels, Delhi, London, Karlsruhe, and virtually. > > At FUDCon Boston 2007 we had what I felt was one of our most successful > FUDCons. The conference sessions were held as a href="http://barcamp.org">BarCamp-style, with session topics and > schedule finalized the morning of the event. Over the weekend we held a > big hackfest, with hacks held by everyone from href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure">Fedora > Infrastructure to href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging">packagers doing final > reviews for a merged Core and Extras. For me, the hackfest started > Saturday morning and finished Sunday night when we all started to fall > asleep in someone's hotel room. > > The hackfest event I was most involved in resulted in a new, streamlined > process for joining Fedora > as a contributor. We worked out the target audiences via use cases > on a whiteboard with comments from Fedorans who joined us or happened to > be in our corner of the room, and while href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MairinDuffy">Mo drew up the cool > icons, I whipped together the wiki pages to make it all happen. By the > next day we were announcing new pages and a new process for all projects > to follow, helping to improve new contributors joining experience. > > At previous FUDCons, this happened, and so did that. > > At LinuxTag FUDCon, organizers did that, and this was the result > > [[Help with more cool FUDCon history.]] > > While I can't make any forward looking statements for the > Project in general, the future of FUDCon is definitely looking good to > me. One thing I'd like to hear about is a more fixed schedule for at > least some of the FUDCons, such as the one(s) held in the United States. > > Bio -- Karsten Wade is a Fedora Project Board member, currently leads > the Fedora Documentation Project, and works as a developer community > manager for Red Hat. > > ## 30 ## > > > From mmcgrath at redhat.com Tue Dec 18 01:42:13 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:42:13 -0600 Subject: FUDCon Marketing? In-Reply-To: <47671A83.5040904@redhat.com> References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> <47615A6C.8010004@redhat.com> <47671A83.5040904@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47672575.9080800@redhat.com> John Poelstra wrote: > Mike McGrath said the following on 12/13/2007 08:14 AM Pacific Time: >> John Poelstra wrote: >>> I thought Mike McGrath started a good idea with the thread about a >>> banner ad... what else are we doing to spread the word about >>> FUDCon? I haven't seen any external press. >> >> For those that haven't seen it we do have a fudcon banner rotating on >> http://fedoraproject.org/ refresh it a few times. Its a new >> mechanism for us so if you don't see it or its broken let us know. >> >> -Mike >> > > Can we rotate in the new banner that has the exact dates of FUDCon? Just added it, should be in rotation within the next 30 minutes. -Mike From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Tue Dec 18 10:36:51 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:36:51 +0000 Subject: Where to go with marketing next?! In-Reply-To: <4766EEFE.3020605@redhat.com> References: <1197919159.2702.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4766EEFE.3020605@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1197974211.2705.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> > > - Places like Digg and Slashdot are community based, they have the idea > > that you'll want to digg stories similar to your friends - i.e. other > > Fedora users. We should try and make better use of this and put out more > > shouts and submit more Fedora related stories :D All the stuff that we > > get sent to the marketing-list about Fedora in the news, we should be > > digging these stories as well (heh, at least the positive ones!) > > And maybe some blogs pointing to the stories, too. OK, as an easy starting point I'm going to commit to taking every story that get's posted to this list about Fedora, checking if it's submitted to digg and if not submitting it. I'll also Slashdot and send links to this list and blog pointing to the stories. I think this is fair game as I'm pretty sure people who are following Planet and this list are interested in Fedora and would probably digg these stories if given the option; either way I'll make it clear to people to only digg if they enjoy the article!! That is, unles somebody can think of a good reason why not. If not, forever hold your peace... Jon > > Exciting stuff! > From mattdm at mattdm.org Wed Dec 19 16:34:37 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:34:37 -0500 Subject: FUDCon *PLANNING* [was Re: FUDCon Marketing?] In-Reply-To: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20071219163437.GA2943@jadzia.bu.edu> On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 06:30:59AM -0800, John Poelstra wrote: > Could we get some help from the RHT Communications people to start a > campaign now that builds up to the actual event? Maybe first starting > with a press release? This is a great idea, but another place where we really need to be working more in advance. It's almost too late for the current one. Anyone who needs to convince their employer to send them, justify expenses, and book a plane ticket is probably already out of luck. If we want to have serious events, we need to have all the proverbial ducks in a row with their Ts dotted and Is crossed (or something like that) at least two months in advance. Preferably three or more. Since we already know the basic release schedule that far in advance, this really shouldn't be impossible. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From gdk at redhat.com Wed Dec 19 16:38:39 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:38:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: FUDCon *PLANNING* [was Re: FUDCon Marketing?] In-Reply-To: <20071219163437.GA2943@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> <20071219163437.GA2943@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Dec 2007, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 06:30:59AM -0800, John Poelstra wrote: >> Could we get some help from the RHT Communications people to start a >> campaign now that builds up to the actual event? Maybe first starting >> with a press release? > > This is a great idea, but another place where we really need to be working > more in advance. It's almost too late for the current one. Anyone who needs > to convince their employer to send them, justify expenses, and book a plane > ticket is probably already out of luck. > > If we want to have serious events, we need to have all the proverbial ducks > in a row with their Ts dotted and Is crossed (or something like that) at > least two months in advance. Preferably three or more. > > Since we already know the basic release schedule that far in advance, this > really shouldn't be impossible. Well, then, we should announce the summer FUDCon now, since we know it'll be in Boston in conjunction with the Red Hat Summit. --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From mattdm at mattdm.org Wed Dec 19 20:17:30 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:17:30 -0500 Subject: FUDCon *PLANNING* [was Re: FUDCon Marketing?] In-Reply-To: References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> <20071219163437.GA2943@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <20071219201730.GA26297@jadzia.bu.edu> On Wed, Dec 19, 2007 at 11:38:39AM -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > Well, then, we should announce the summer FUDCon now, since we know it'll > be in Boston in conjunction with the Red Hat Summit. Yes, totally we should. Give me a minute here though. :) -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From chitlesh.goorah at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 00:51:51 2007 From: chitlesh.goorah at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 01:51:51 +0100 Subject: FEL or 100$ ?? Message-ID: <50baabb30712191651s769c82c5l3335e9d30f37b02f@mail.gmail.com> Hello there, Would anyone spend at least 100$ on binaries from opensource software or choose Fedora Electronic Lab instead? :) Below is an article, which entails Fedora Electronic Lab and Reyessoft's plans to sell binaries from opensource software: http://www.linuxelectrons.com/news/eda/15543/reyessoft-ports-open-source-eda-software-unix Chitlesh From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu Dec 20 09:57:06 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:57:06 +0000 Subject: FEL or 100$ ?? In-Reply-To: <50baabb30712191651s769c82c5l3335e9d30f37b02f@mail.gmail.com> References: <50baabb30712191651s769c82c5l3335e9d30f37b02f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1198144626.2695.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've submitted this to digg and to slashdot. It's a good article and shows off some of the great work that Chitlesh has done with this :D If you read the article and like it, give it a digg too. For anyone who didn't see his blog this morning, it seems crazy that FEL doesn't get the same press coverage as when ReyesSoft does something very similar but charges $100 for it! http://digg.com/linux_unix/Pay_100_for_Fedora_Electronic_Lab_rebranded Good work Chitlesh :D Jon From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Thu Dec 20 12:20:33 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:20:33 +0900 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu Message-ID: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Interesting post about whether Fedora is more popular for dev's than Ubuntu. http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2007/12/18/fedora-more-successful-developer-wise-than-ubuntu I personally don't think it's a fair comparison because Ubuntu is derived from Debian and there is cross over. What I would like to see is a comparison with Debian and Fedora to see what the actual numbers are. Cheers, Marc From gelios at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 13:06:34 2007 From: gelios at gmail.com (Zhukov Pavel) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:06:34 +0300 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <448999300712200506t525eaa5cl55e1d6031d72c54a@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 20, 2007 3:20 PM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Interesting post about whether Fedora is more popular for dev's than > Ubuntu. > > http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2007/12/18/fedora-more-successful-developer-wise-than-ubuntu > > I personally don't think it's a fair comparison because Ubuntu is > derived from Debian and there is cross over. What I would like to see > is a comparison with Debian and Fedora to see what the actual numbers > are. > > Cheers, > > Marc > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > Fedora project managed by RH. It means strict roadmap, defined chekpoints, clear release cycle. Debian on the other hand, fully community driven. no checkpoints, no erelease cycle, no "head": Debian Project Leader have very limited premissions. From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Thu Dec 20 13:12:39 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:12:39 +0900 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <448999300712200506t525eaa5cl55e1d6031d72c54a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200506t525eaa5cl55e1d6031d72c54a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1198156359.24378.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 16:06 +0300, Zhukov Pavel wrote: > On Dec 20, 2007 3:20 PM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > Interesting post about whether Fedora is more popular for dev's than > > Ubuntu. > > > > http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2007/12/18/fedora-more-successful-developer-wise-than-ubuntu > > > > I personally don't think it's a fair comparison because Ubuntu is > > derived from Debian and there is cross over. What I would like to see > > is a comparison with Debian and Fedora to see what the actual numbers > > are. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Marc > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > Fedora project managed by RH. It means strict roadmap, defined > chekpoints, clear release cycle. > Debian on the other hand, fully community driven. no checkpoints, no > erelease cycle, no "head": Debian Project Leader have very limited > premissions. > I disagree while Fedora project is sponsored by RH the majority of the contributors are from the community. Max blogged about this the other day if I remember correctly. I'm not to sure what the definition of a community project is but I would have thought more than 50% constitutes a community project? My point related mainly to developer-wise which translates to packagers and docs I think. Cheers, Marc From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Thu Dec 20 16:45:43 2007 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:45:43 -0500 Subject: UMEET 2007 Message-ID: <476A9C37.2090103@projetofedora.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi All!! Yesterday I presented a talk about the Brazilian Fedora Project at UMEET http://umeet.uninet.edu/ Beste Regards! Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira http://www.projetofedora.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHapw3Pg3HAC1vlg4RAlffAJ9RDdZnMviOgKZOGz8Bk2wvMUK90wCfUipU DKibE0sYOgpd0dov/uRZiHc= =ywRy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gelios at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 14:00:29 2007 From: gelios at gmail.com (Zhukov Pavel) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:00:29 +0300 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <1198156359.24378.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200506t525eaa5cl55e1d6031d72c54a@mail.gmail.com> <1198156359.24378.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <448999300712200600n501e9e6dgbe06493fe26576c@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 20, 2007 4:12 PM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 16:06 +0300, Zhukov Pavel wrote: > > On Dec 20, 2007 3:20 PM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > Interesting post about whether Fedora is more popular for dev's than > > > Ubuntu. > > > > > > http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2007/12/18/fedora-more-successful-developer-wise-than-ubuntu > > > > > > I personally don't think it's a fair comparison because Ubuntu is > > > derived from Debian and there is cross over. What I would like to see > > > is a comparison with Debian and Fedora to see what the actual numbers > > > are. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > -- > > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > Fedora project managed by RH. It means strict roadmap, defined > > chekpoints, clear release cycle. > > Debian on the other hand, fully community driven. no checkpoints, no > > erelease cycle, no "head": Debian Project Leader have very limited > > premissions. > > > > I disagree while Fedora project is sponsored by RH the majority of the > contributors are from the community. Max blogged about this the other > day if I remember correctly. > > I'm not to sure what the definition of a community project is but I > would have thought more than 50% constitutes a community project? > > My point related mainly to developer-wise which translates to packagers > and docs I think. > > > Cheers, > > Marc > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > by "Community driven" i mean that roadmap and other major decisions defined by community using voting or other procedures. From mukul.dharwadkar at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 18:40:21 2007 From: mukul.dharwadkar at gmail.com (Mukul Dharwadkar) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:40:21 -0600 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <448999300712200600n501e9e6dgbe06493fe26576c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200506t525eaa5cl55e1d6031d72c54a@mail.gmail.com> <1198156359.24378.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200600n501e9e6dgbe06493fe26576c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It's really going to be very hard if we still continue to measure our success on popularity in Developer community. Although it is a good thing to be accepted by Developers, the true measure of success is the acceptance by the user community in which, I am sorry to say, Ubuntu beats Fedora hands down. Coincidentally, I just blogged about this yesterday. http://www.dharwadkar.com/weblog/desktop_linux/view We have to come up with ways to make sure that Linux in general and specifically Fedora becomes the OS of choice. It's a large market out there and we can make it if we get our priorities right. regards, Mukul On 12/20/07, Zhukov Pavel wrote: > > On Dec 20, 2007 4:12 PM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 16:06 +0300, Zhukov Pavel wrote: > > > On Dec 20, 2007 3:20 PM, Marc Wiriadisastra > wrote: > > > > Interesting post about whether Fedora is more popular for dev's than > > > > Ubuntu. > > > > > > > > > http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2007/12/18/fedora-more-successful-developer-wise-than-ubuntu > > > > > > > > I personally don't think it's a fair comparison because Ubuntu is > > > > derived from Debian and there is cross over. What I would like to > see > > > > is a comparison with Debian and Fedora to see what the actual > numbers > > > > are. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > > Fedora project managed by RH. It means strict roadmap, defined > > > chekpoints, clear release cycle. > > > Debian on the other hand, fully community driven. no checkpoints, no > > > erelease cycle, no "head": Debian Project Leader have very limited > > > premissions. > > > > > > > I disagree while Fedora project is sponsored by RH the majority of the > > contributors are from the community. Max blogged about this the other > > day if I remember correctly. > > > > I'm not to sure what the definition of a community project is but I > > would have thought more than 50% constitutes a community project? > > > > My point related mainly to developer-wise which translates to packagers > > and docs I think. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Marc > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > by "Community driven" i mean that roadmap and other major decisions > defined by community using voting or other procedures. > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Smile!!! :) It improves your face value... Visit me at http://www.dharwadkar.com http://www.dharwadkar.org Sister Site: http://www.saraswatibhuvan.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gdk at redhat.com Thu Dec 20 18:52:49 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:52:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200506t525eaa5cl55e1d6031d72c54a@mail.gmail.com> <1198156359.24378.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200600n501e9e6dgbe06493fe26576c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Dec 2007, Mukul Dharwadkar wrote: > It's really going to be very hard if we still continue to measure our > success on popularity in Developer community. Although it is a good > thing to be accepted by Developers, the true measure of success is the > acceptance by the user community in which, I am sorry to say, Ubuntu > beats Fedora hands down. "True measure of success"? The most persistent fallacy in the open source world is that desktop usage by grandma and grandpa is the "true measure of success". If the "true measure of success" is number of novice desktop users, then Microsoft is beating all of us by such a wide margin that we may as well not bother. Ubuntu is extremely good at polishing what currently exists for new Linux users. That's a good goal. But it is not Fedora's primary goal. Fedora's goal is to put together the best *and most free* general purpose operating system with *the strongest community of contributors* in order to *drive innovation*. > We have to come up with ways to make sure that Linux in general and > specifically Fedora becomes the OS of choice. It's a large market out > there and we can make it if we get our priorities right. I agree that we must keep working to make Fedora more useful to more people. Note that the differences in that regard between Ubuntu and Fedora shrink with every release. We must not, however, compromise the Free Software principles that give us our strength. --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu Dec 20 18:47:32 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:47:32 +0000 Subject: Fedora 9 Interview series Message-ID: <1198176452.2691.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey all, I was thinking about starting to get organised for the Fedora 9 series of interviews soon. I probably won't start drawing up questions for these until the new year as I'm not going to have much net access for the next few weeks, but I figure I'd draw up a hit list of interviews that would be cool to do. If anyone wants to pick any of them up that would be awesome - and if anybody is interested but would like some advice, I can probably help out here too (there's probably people on the list who can do a better job at this than me!!)... * RPM Fusion (not an official Fedora project, but it's going to rock and be very important to the community) * K12 Linux * KDE 4 * Package Kit * Update X-Server/One second X * Virtual Authentication/Virtual Manager Policy Kit/Virtual Storage * ext4 * Clock applet improvements * Artwork I think that's all I can see for now but should keep us busy. There are other features, such as Bluetooth, which we featured for F8 but maybe we want to revisit them as well? Jon From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu Dec 20 18:54:11 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:54:11 +0000 Subject: Non-release specific stuff Message-ID: <1198176851.2691.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello again! Trying to get things out before I go away for people to look over and think about. I think it would be cool to do some features/interviews about non-release specific stuff. The obvious thing that jumps to my mind is Fedora People (people.fedoraproject.org) as something that is unique to Fedora and definitely a huge benefit to our community. Also worth looking at could be things like Hosted and possible deployment of Transiflex? What form do people think these would work best in? To my mind they'd be the perfect things to go on a news.fedoraproject.org domain as blog posts/stories/articles whatever you want to call them. How's this coming along? Is it something we can realistically hope for in the near future? Best wishes, Jon From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu Dec 20 19:05:04 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:05:04 +0000 Subject: FUDCon Marketing? Message-ID: <1198177504.2691.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> What's happening with this at the minute? (dispensing with hellos altogether now!) While it seems it's too late to put much effort into promoting this Re: attendence, I think we definitely need to get together some coverage of the event itself! I can't make it, a trip across the atlantic seems a little excessive, so to anybody who's going to be there: Would you please make notes, record the highlights, have chats with people leading the sessions...whatever you think might be useful and/or interesting for people to read/watch after or during the event! I think particularly interesting should be the results of the hackfests... Then we can try and spin this into a useful form, maybe similar to the Release Summary (We could link out to more detailed pages from the main summary). I think this worked really well for the actual release and gave the press something to focus on (at least from what I hear!) and something similar could work for FUDCon - well, is worth a try anyway? As always, thoughts and feedback welcome!! I'm sorry for flooding everyone's inbox's with e-mails tonight but I wanted to get some food for thought out there before I go away on holiday :D Best wishes, Jon From jmbabich at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 19:12:54 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:12:54 +0300 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200506t525eaa5cl55e1d6031d72c54a@mail.gmail.com> <1198156359.24378.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200600n501e9e6dgbe06493fe26576c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712201112x13c43587k26944001f871fc2e@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 20, 2007 9:52 PM, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > I agree that we must keep working to make Fedora more useful to more > people. Note that the differences in that regard between Ubuntu and > Fedora shrink with every release. > > We must not, however, compromise the Free Software principles that give us > our strength. > +1 John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project From mukul.dharwadkar at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 19:19:30 2007 From: mukul.dharwadkar at gmail.com (Mukul Dharwadkar) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:19:30 -0600 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200506t525eaa5cl55e1d6031d72c54a@mail.gmail.com> <1198156359.24378.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200600n501e9e6dgbe06493fe26576c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Well I can certainly respect that, but what good is innovation if nobody (or at least not enough) is going to use it. And I did think that providing a viable alternative to Windows was one of the objective of Linux. I didn't compare Fedora with Windows because it is accepted that Microsoft has a monopoly on the desktop OS market. It is within the Linux community where the question of popularity exists. If not compromising the principles means less usable and less popular operating system, the I deeply believe that the priciples are wrong to start with. I understand this is a very strong statement, but I think the underlying principle of Free Software Foundation is tha software should be free for ALL and not only for those who are technical enough to understand it. I think we all would agree to it. I order to abide by our principles I feel we must make our software more appealing and usable than the competition, for which the immediate goal is Ubuntu, then MAC and then ultimately challenge the supremacy of Windows. I am not trying to start a flame war. After all we are all on the same side. I just wanted to contribute my thoughts. regards, Mukul On 12/20/07, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > On Thu, 20 Dec 2007, Mukul Dharwadkar wrote: > > > It's really going to be very hard if we still continue to measure our > > success on popularity in Developer community. Although it is a good > > thing to be accepted by Developers, the true measure of success is the > > acceptance by the user community in which, I am sorry to say, Ubuntu > > beats Fedora hands down. > > "True measure of success"? > > The most persistent fallacy in the open source world is that desktop usage > by grandma and grandpa is the "true measure of success". If the "true > measure of success" is number of novice desktop users, then Microsoft is > beating all of us by such a wide margin that we may as well not bother. > > Ubuntu is extremely good at polishing what currently exists for new Linux > users. That's a good goal. But it is not Fedora's primary goal. > > Fedora's goal is to put together the best *and most free* general purpose > operating system with *the strongest community of contributors* in order > to *drive innovation*. > > > We have to come up with ways to make sure that Linux in general and > > specifically Fedora becomes the OS of choice. It's a large market out > > there and we can make it if we get our priorities right. > > I agree that we must keep working to make Fedora more useful to more > people. Note that the differences in that regard between Ubuntu and > Fedora shrink with every release. > > We must not, however, compromise the Free Software principles that give us > our strength. > > --g > > -- > Greg DeKoenigsberg > Community Development Manager > Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 > "To whomsoever much hath been given... > ...from him much shall be asked" > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Smile!!! :) It improves your face value... Visit me at http://www.dharwadkar.com http://www.dharwadkar.org Sister Site: http://www.saraswatibhuvan.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mspevack at redhat.com Thu Dec 20 20:32:44 2007 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:32:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: taking a peek at the web stats Message-ID: So far in December, here are the top "entry points" for people visiting fedoraproject.org: 1. / (the homepage) 2. /get-fedora 3. /wiki 4. /infofeed/rss20.xml 5. fedora weekly news wiki page 6. wiki recent changes 7. /get-fedora.html 8. F8 release schedule 9. Andreas Bierfert's Wine page 10. wiki download page 11. yum upgrade faq 12. F8 release summary 13. F8 common bugs 14. Overview page 15. Communicate page And here are the search terms that are bringing people to fp.org fedora fedora 8 fedora core fedora linux fedora download (and many more like it) also: epel yum icedtea anaconda fedora live cd selinux pirut From jonstanley at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 23:06:49 2007 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:06:49 -0600 Subject: FUDCon *PLANNING* [was Re: FUDCon Marketing?] In-Reply-To: References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> <20071219163437.GA2943@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: On Dec 19, 2007 10:38 AM, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > Well, then, we should announce the summer FUDCon now, since we know it'll > be in Boston in conjunction with the Red Hat Summit. Which brings up another interesting point - the Summit will attract a crowd (myself included) that is interested in both the Summit and FUDCon. Have the logistics/scheduling been worked out with the Summit folks yet? The fear that I have is that I'll have to take precious time away from the sessions at the Summit in order to attend FUDCon? Maybe we could do the Barcamp style thing that's occurring on Saturday this FUDCon on Tuesday 6/17 if there's space available? Just a thought. -Jon From inode0 at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 00:22:11 2007 From: inode0 at gmail.com (inode0) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:22:11 -0600 Subject: FUDCon *PLANNING* [was Re: FUDCon Marketing?] In-Reply-To: References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> <20071219163437.GA2943@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: On Dec 20, 2007 5:06 PM, Jon Stanley wrote: > On Dec 19, 2007 10:38 AM, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > > Well, then, we should announce the summer FUDCon now, since we know it'll > > be in Boston in conjunction with the Red Hat Summit. > > Which brings up another interesting point - the Summit will attract a > crowd (myself included) that is interested in both the Summit and > FUDCon. Have the logistics/scheduling been worked out with the Summit > folks yet? The fear that I have is that I'll have to take precious > time away from the sessions at the Summit in order to attend FUDCon? > Maybe we could do the Barcamp style thing that's occurring on Saturday > this FUDCon on Tuesday 6/17 if there's space available? +1 The summit typically doesn't leave one with a lot of free time if one is there for the summit. I'm in the same boat and would love to be able to attend the barcamp without skipping a day of the summit. John From poelstra at redhat.com Fri Dec 21 00:43:10 2007 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:43:10 -0800 Subject: Non-release specific stuff In-Reply-To: <1198176851.2691.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1198176851.2691.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <476B0C1E.7000302@redhat.com> Jonathan Roberts said the following on 12/20/2007 10:54 AM Pacific Time: > Hello again! > > Trying to get things out before I go away for people to look over and > think about. > > I think it would be cool to do some features/interviews about > non-release specific stuff. The obvious thing that jumps to my mind is > Fedora People (people.fedoraproject.org) as something that is unique to > Fedora and definitely a huge benefit to our community. Also worth > looking at could be things like Hosted and possible deployment of > Transiflex? > > What form do people think these would work best in? To my mind they'd be > the perfect things to go on a news.fedoraproject.org domain as blog > posts/stories/articles whatever you want to call them. How's this coming > along? Is it something we can realistically hope for in the near future? Jon, I think you are doing a great job and that your developer interviews for Fedora 8 were great. My vote at this point would be to just keep publishing away in the same way you have been until the other infrastructure gets sorted out. I think we definitely need marketing strategery sessions at FUDCon. John From mattdm at mattdm.org Fri Dec 21 04:50:46 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:50:46 -0500 Subject: FUDCon *PLANNING* [was Re: FUDCon Marketing?] In-Reply-To: References: <475FF0A3.6070303@redhat.com> <20071219163437.GA2943@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <20071221045046.GA20124@jadzia.bu.edu> On Thu, Dec 20, 2007 at 05:06:49PM -0600, Jon Stanley wrote: > > Well, then, we should announce the summer FUDCon now, since we know it'll > > be in Boston in conjunction with the Red Hat Summit. > Which brings up another interesting point - the Summit will attract a > crowd (myself included) that is interested in both the Summit and > FUDCon. Have the logistics/scheduling been worked out with the Summit > folks yet? The fear that I have is that I'll have to take precious Right, I hope that's obvious to everyone involved -- we want to use that synergy to our advantage, not create a competing event. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Dec 21 07:14:53 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:14:53 +0200 Subject: Fedora 9 Interview series In-Reply-To: <1198176452.2691.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1198176452.2691.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <476B67ED.10701@nicubunu.ro> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > I was thinking about starting to get organised for the Fedora 9 series > of interviews soon. I probably won't start drawing up questions for > these until the new year as I'm not going to have much net access for > the next few weeks, but I figure I'd draw up a hit list of interviews > that would be cool to do. If anyone wants to pick any of them up that > would be awesome - and if anybody is interested but would like some > advice, I can probably help out here too (there's probably people on the > list who can do a better job at this than me!!)... How about an interview about games and the games spin? F8's Games Spin totally kick ass and F9 should kick even more. On top of that, games is a topic with huge potential to score big time to readers on places like digg. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 07:37:26 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:37:26 +0300 Subject: Fedora 9 Interview series In-Reply-To: <476B67ED.10701@nicubunu.ro> References: <1198176452.2691.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <476B67ED.10701@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712202337l66fc107kaee1c5180197020a@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 21, 2007 10:14 AM, Nicu Buculei wrote: > How about an interview about games and the games spin? F8's Games Spin > totally kick ass and F9 should kick even more. On top of that, games is > a topic with huge potential to score big time to readers on places like > digg. > +1 BR, John Babich From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 21 07:47:28 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:47:28 +0900 Subject: Fedora 9 Interview series In-Reply-To: <476B67ED.10701@nicubunu.ro> References: <1198176452.2691.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <476B67ED.10701@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1198223248.7443.3.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 09:14 +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > I was thinking about starting to get organised for the Fedora 9 > series > > of interviews soon. I probably won't start drawing up questions for > > these until the new year as I'm not going to have much net access > for > > the next few weeks, but I figure I'd draw up a hit list of > interviews > > that would be cool to do. If anyone wants to pick any of them up > that > > would be awesome - and if anybody is interested but would like some > > advice, I can probably help out here too (there's probably people on > the > > list who can do a better job at this than me!!)... > > How about an interview about games and the games spin? F8's Games Spin > totally kick ass and F9 should kick even more. On top of that, games is > a topic with huge potential to score big time to readers on places like > digg. +1 Regards, Marc From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Fri Dec 21 09:31:45 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:31:45 +0000 Subject: Fedora 9 Interview series In-Reply-To: <476B67ED.10701@nicubunu.ro> References: <1198176452.2691.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <476B67ED.10701@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1198229505.2693.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 09:14 +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > I was thinking about starting to get organised for the Fedora 9 series > > of interviews soon. I probably won't start drawing up questions for > > these until the new year as I'm not going to have much net access for > > the next few weeks, but I figure I'd draw up a hit list of interviews > > that would be cool to do. If anyone wants to pick any of them up that > > would be awesome - and if anybody is interested but would like some > > advice, I can probably help out here too (there's probably people on the > > list who can do a better job at this than me!!)... > > How about an interview about games and the games spin? F8's Games Spin > totally kick ass and F9 should kick even more. On top of that, games is > a topic with huge potential to score big time to readers on places like > digg. Great idea :) I'll add it to the list! Best wishes, Jon > > -- > nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com > Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > From satyajit at nerdshack.com Fri Dec 21 13:24:23 2007 From: satyajit at nerdshack.com (Satyajit Ranjeev) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:54:23 +0530 Subject: First public speech as a Fedora ambassador In-Reply-To: <20071221045111.B7E7D7306C@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20071221045111.B7E7D7306C@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1198243463.3193.26.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> Hi, I am currently a Linux Trainer in a reputed organization in Chennai, India and recently had the opportunity to address 30 students on Fedora who had actually come in for a lecture on Oracle. The remarkable thing was that instantaneously 8 of them requested for cds and dvds and had a wide range of queries regarding Fedora. This definitely shows that fedora is in a high level of acceptance over here too. All of them enjoy working on it with the compiz window manger and all the extra graphical features added in this release. The virtualization with qemu was another component which stole the show. I was very pleased with myself about the outcome of the small talk which showed a lot of positive acceptance. I'm sure that I will be able to spread the Fedora philosophy in a wide way. Satyajit Ranjeev -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Fri Dec 21 13:27:06 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:27:06 +0000 Subject: First public speech as a Fedora ambassador In-Reply-To: <1198243463.3193.26.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> References: <20071221045111.B7E7D7306C@hormel.redhat.com> <1198243463.3193.26.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> Message-ID: <1198243626.2705.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 18:54 +0530, Satyajit Ranjeev wrote: > Hi, > > I am currently a Linux Trainer in a reputed organization in Chennai, > India and recently had the opportunity to address 30 students on Fedora > who had actually come in for a lecture on Oracle. > > The remarkable thing was that instantaneously 8 of them requested for > cds and dvds and had a wide range of queries regarding Fedora. This > definitely shows that fedora is in a high level of acceptance over here > too. > > All of them enjoy working on it with the compiz window manger and all > the extra graphical features added in this release. The virtualization > with qemu was another component which stole the show. > > I was very pleased with myself about the outcome of the small talk > which showed a lot of positive acceptance. I'm sure that I will be able > to spread the Fedora philosophy in a wide way. Congratulations :) Sounds like you did a great job!! Best wishes, Jon > > > Satyajit Ranjeev > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 21 13:43:14 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:43:14 +0900 Subject: First public speech as a Fedora ambassador In-Reply-To: <1198243626.2705.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20071221045111.B7E7D7306C@hormel.redhat.com> <1198243463.3193.26.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> <1198243626.2705.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1198244594.7443.16.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 13:27 +0000, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 18:54 +0530, Satyajit Ranjeev wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I am currently a Linux Trainer in a reputed organization in Chennai, > > India and recently had the opportunity to address 30 students on Fedora > > who had actually come in for a lecture on Oracle. > > > > The remarkable thing was that instantaneously 8 of them requested for > > cds and dvds and had a wide range of queries regarding Fedora. This > > definitely shows that fedora is in a high level of acceptance over here > > too. > > > > All of them enjoy working on it with the compiz window manger and all > > the extra graphical features added in this release. The virtualization > > with qemu was another component which stole the show. > > > > I was very pleased with myself about the outcome of the small talk > > which showed a lot of positive acceptance. I'm sure that I will be able > > to spread the Fedora philosophy in a wide way. > > Congratulations :) Sounds like you did a great job!! > > Best wishes, > > Jon > > +1 Did you make slides up? If you did do you mind uploading them somewhere fp.o maybe so other people can see what you talked about? Cheers, Marc From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 17:25:32 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:25:32 +0300 Subject: First public speech as a Fedora ambassador In-Reply-To: <1198244594.7443.16.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <20071221045111.B7E7D7306C@hormel.redhat.com> <1198243463.3193.26.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> <1198243626.2705.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198244594.7443.16.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712210925r7bd202c6k1f6564498f9929e8@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 21, 2007 4:43 PM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 13:27 +0000, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 18:54 +0530, Satyajit Ranjeev wrote: > Did you make slides up? If you did do you mind uploading them somewhere > fp.o maybe so other people can see what you talked about? > Satyajit: Congratulations. If you like, you can share your presentation by uploading at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Presentations. Best Regards, John Babich Fedora Ambassador From mspevack at redhat.com Fri Dec 21 19:09:29 2007 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:09:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: First public speech as a Fedora ambassador In-Reply-To: <1198243463.3193.26.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> References: <20071221045111.B7E7D7306C@hormel.redhat.com> <1198243463.3193.26.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> Message-ID: Congratulations to you -- it is always exciting to speak in public about Fedora -- it's one of my favorite parts of the job. --Max On Fri, 21 Dec 2007, Satyajit Ranjeev wrote: > Hi, > > I am currently a Linux Trainer in a reputed organization in Chennai, > India and recently had the opportunity to address 30 students on Fedora > who had actually come in for a lecture on Oracle. > > The remarkable thing was that instantaneously 8 of them requested for > cds and dvds and had a wide range of queries regarding Fedora. This > definitely shows that fedora is in a high level of acceptance over here > too. > > All of them enjoy working on it with the compiz window manger and all > the extra graphical features added in this release. The virtualization > with qemu was another component which stole the show. > > I was very pleased with myself about the outcome of the small talk > which showed a lot of positive acceptance. I'm sure that I will be able > to spread the Fedora philosophy in a wide way. > > > Satyajit Ranjeev > From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Dec 21 19:04:32 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:34:32 +0530 Subject: First public speech as a Fedora ambassador In-Reply-To: References: <20071221045111.B7E7D7306C@hormel.redhat.com> <1198243463.3193.26.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> Message-ID: <476C0E40.5000905@fedoraproject.org> Max Spevack wrote: > Congratulations to you -- it is always exciting to speak in public about > Fedora -- it's one of my favorite parts of the job. > It is the best part of my "non-job". Rahul From jonstanley at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 20:27:13 2007 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:27:13 -0600 Subject: Fwd: Fedora 8 review In-Reply-To: References: <64b14b300712210648g6adca64re22a1e1c569dce5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Just ran across this on Fedora-list. I haven't had time to listen to it yet. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Valent Turkovic Date: Dec 21, 2007 8:48 AM Subject: Fedora 8 review To: For users of Fedora , Development discussions related to Fedora Hi, I listened to Linux Action Show and I really liked their review of Fedora 8. I believe that this is something Fedora users but also Fedora devels should listen. They give Fedora 8 a really hard but IMHO realistic review, so please listen to it. You can hear the clip with the review part of the podcast here: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/index.php/archives/fedora-8-audio-review/ http://www.archive.org/download/Fedora8ReviewlinuxActionShowEp067/Linuxactionshowep067-Fedora8Review.ogg http://www.archive.org/download/Fedora8ReviewlinuxActionShowEp067/Linuxactionshowep067-Fedora8Review_64kb.mp3 or you can listen the whole podcast here: http://www.linuxactionshow.com/?p=158 (Ogg version) http://www.linuxactionshow.com/?p=157 (MP3 version) Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Dec 21 20:20:21 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 01:50:21 +0530 Subject: Fwd: Fedora 8 review In-Reply-To: References: <64b14b300712210648g6adca64re22a1e1c569dce5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <476C2005.3000704@fedoraproject.org> Jon Stanley wrote: > Just ran across this on Fedora-list. I haven't had time to listen to it yet. > It was already discussed in this list FYI. Rahul From inode0 at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 20:33:14 2007 From: inode0 at gmail.com (inode0) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:33:14 -0600 Subject: Fedora 8 review In-Reply-To: References: <64b14b300712210648g6adca64re22a1e1c569dce5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 21, 2007 2:27 PM, Jon Stanley wrote: > Just ran across this on Fedora-list. I haven't had time to listen to it yet. I listened to it and wish I hadn't. But I really feel that way every time I listen to that show. John From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 22:28:29 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:28:29 -0900 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200506t525eaa5cl55e1d6031d72c54a@mail.gmail.com> <1198156359.24378.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200600n501e9e6dgbe06493fe26576c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910712211428o3edd51d7tbe5515df8f57b340@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 20, 2007 10:19 AM, Mukul Dharwadkar wrote: > Well I can certainly respect that, but what good is innovation if nobody (or > at least not enough) is going to use it. How do you know that not enough be are going to use it? 2 years from now, 5 years from now 10 years from now... can you see that far ahead? Looking at every 6 month release as the end result, is an absolutely fantastic way to NOT see how innovations are being adopted. You have to look much further out than that... at least 2 years. How far would Ubuntu have come if Debian community wasn't already there for years and years doing the hard work of putting a distribution together? Every release of Fedora is a step a long a path. Not an end product. We choose to put disruptive technology into the distribution so that long term everyone benefits because we help mature that technology in an open dialog between users and developers. Remind me again, with which distribution does the software for OLPC share the closest heritage? 5 years out from now will there be enough OLPC users in the world to satisfy what you personally think are "enough" users for innovative technology that is being created now in conjunction with Fedora? Innovation is best measured by taking into account of all the ways you didn't expect it to be used when you were creating it. In that sense, mozilla is a great example of an innovation generator. By all rights, they lost the browser war by the time Netscape opened its codebase and created the Mozilla foundation. They lost it, hands down. Everyone involved with mozilla should have just packed it up and gone home, IE ate their lunch in marketshare. But they didn't, and because they focused heavily on innovating open source technology we've got all these very interesting web-centric applications that are making use of xul technology that aren't a traditional browser... not to mention a pretty nice traditional browser or two as well. The real magic of innovation is not how appealing it is when you are creating it, but how it inspires more people to do new supremely interesting things in the future. An analogy, this year the color pink may be appealing for rain jackets, but the innovation of Goretex was revolutionary when it was created for the space program. I'd rather have Fedora focus on developing innovations has impactful as Goretex and not worry so much about what this year's hot color will be. > And I did think that providing a > viable alternative to Windows was one of the objective of Linux. I didn't > compare Fedora with Windows because it is accepted that Microsoft has a > monopoly on the desktop OS market. It is within the Linux community where > the question of popularity exists. There are NO valid comprehensive comparable metrics of linux adoption across openly developed distributions...full stop. You can wave your hands all you want. But the hard reality is Fedora is the ONLY distribution that is putting any effort into producing a methodology in counting adoption trends. > I order to abide by our principles I feel we must make our software more > appealing and usable than the competition, for which the immediate goal is > Ubuntu, then MAC and then ultimately challenge the supremacy of Windows. if you feel Ubuntu is competition, then you absolutely the wrong mindset in place to be an effective contributor for Fedora. The Fedora mission is about being a conduit for upstream development. We integrate the work of multiple upstreams has faithfully as we can, and drive the necessary changes back into upstream projects for everyone to make use of. If you are looking for to make Fedora more appealing by adding a lot of downstream patches that other distributions don't get access to via upstream, that is in direct conflict with the mission. We try very hard limit how we differentiate from upstream to thematic elements that users can easily change after install. If there is general UI polish, then we want that to go into the upstream projects so that everyone making use of those project components to build a distribution benefit. > > I am not trying to start a flame war. After all we are all on the same side. > I just wanted to contribute my thoughts. You aren't starting a flame war. This is discussion is as old as the fedora project. -jef From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Dec 21 23:41:53 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 05:11:53 +0530 Subject: Fedora News site: Help Needed Message-ID: <476C4F41.7070307@fedoraproject.org> Hi, Fedora infrastructure is looking for a person to manage a new news site for Fedora which is currently planned to be a drupal instance. If anyone wants to volunteer to lead that effort or help coordinate with others, please contact the infrastructure team. Rahul From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Dec 22 00:29:35 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:29:35 +0900 Subject: Fedora News site: Help Needed In-Reply-To: <476C4F41.7070307@fedoraproject.org> References: <476C4F41.7070307@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1198283375.7443.66.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> On Sat, 2007-12-22 at 05:11 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi, > > Fedora infrastructure is looking for a person to manage a new news site > for Fedora which is currently planned to be a drupal instance. If anyone > wants to volunteer to lead that effort or help coordinate with others, > please contact the infrastructure team. > > Rahul > I'm interested since however I would need guidance on it. I can do a local install but if someone can mentor me with problems that would be great. Cheers, Marc From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Dec 22 00:24:57 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 05:54:57 +0530 Subject: Fedora News site: Help Needed In-Reply-To: <1198283375.7443.66.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <476C4F41.7070307@fedoraproject.org> <1198283375.7443.66.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <476C5959.5010602@fedoraproject.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Sat, 2007-12-22 at 05:11 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Fedora infrastructure is looking for a person to manage a new news site >> for Fedora which is currently planned to be a drupal instance. If anyone >> wants to volunteer to lead that effort or help coordinate with others, >> please contact the infrastructure team. >> >> Rahul >> > > I'm interested since however I would need guidance on it. I can do a > local install but if someone can mentor me with problems that would be > great. Thomas Chung used to setup and administrate drupal in fedoranews.org before it was disbanded by him and he has now volunteered with the infrastructure team to lead the effort which is probably the ideal thing to have happened and you can work with him and help out on whatever activities that are happening in there. Rahul From mukul.dharwadkar at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 00:38:32 2007 From: mukul.dharwadkar at gmail.com (Mukul Dharwadkar) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:38:32 -0600 Subject: Fedora News site: Help Needed In-Reply-To: <476C5959.5010602@fedoraproject.org> References: <476C4F41.7070307@fedoraproject.org> <1198283375.7443.66.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <476C5959.5010602@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: I volunteer On Dec 21, 2007 6:24 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Sat, 2007-12-22 at 05:11 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> Fedora infrastructure is looking for a person to manage a new news site > >> for Fedora which is currently planned to be a drupal instance. If > anyone > >> wants to volunteer to lead that effort or help coordinate with others, > >> please contact the infrastructure team. > >> > >> Rahul > >> > > > > I'm interested since however I would need guidance on it. I can do a > > local install but if someone can mentor me with problems that would be > > great. > > Thomas Chung used to setup and administrate drupal in fedoranews.org > before it was disbanded by him and he has now volunteered with the > infrastructure team to lead the effort which is probably the ideal thing > to have happened and you can work with him and help out on whatever > activities that are happening in there. > > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Smile!!! :) It improves your face value... Visit me at http://www.dharwadkar.com http://www.dharwadkar.org Sister Site: http://www.saraswatibhuvan.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Dec 22 00:40:34 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:40:34 +0900 Subject: Fedora News site: Help Needed In-Reply-To: <476C5959.5010602@fedoraproject.org> References: <476C4F41.7070307@fedoraproject.org> <1198283375.7443.66.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <476C5959.5010602@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1198284034.7443.76.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> > Thomas Chung used to setup and administrate drupal in fedoranews.org > before it was disbanded by him and he has now volunteered with the > infrastructure team to lead the effort which is probably the ideal thing > to have happened and you can work with him and help out on whatever > activities that are happening in there. > > Rahul > Thanks Rahul Do I just get in contact with Thomas then? Is he on holidays since FWN is taking a break? Cheers, Marc From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Dec 22 00:34:28 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 06:04:28 +0530 Subject: Fedora News site: Help Needed In-Reply-To: <1198284034.7443.76.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <476C4F41.7070307@fedoraproject.org> <1198283375.7443.66.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <476C5959.5010602@fedoraproject.org> <1198284034.7443.76.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <476C5B94.9070506@fedoraproject.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > Thanks Rahul > > Do I just get in contact with Thomas then? Is he on holidays since FWN > is taking a break? He just responded to me and send a mail to infrastructure list too. You can coordinate with him. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Dec 22 00:35:06 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 06:05:06 +0530 Subject: Fedora News site: Help Needed In-Reply-To: References: <476C4F41.7070307@fedoraproject.org> <1198283375.7443.66.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <476C5959.5010602@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <476C5BBA.3060505@fedoraproject.org> Mukul Dharwadkar wrote: > I volunteer > Followup with Thomas Chung tchung AT fedoraproject.org. Thanks. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Dec 22 00:43:13 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 06:13:13 +0530 Subject: Fedora News site: Help Needed In-Reply-To: <3d0809e40712211646s20dace28qb24b7206dfec4935@mail.gmail.com> References: <476C4F41.7070307@fedoraproject.org> <3d0809e40712211646s20dace28qb24b7206dfec4935@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <476C5DA1.5070003@fedoraproject.org> Scott Thistle wrote: > Feel free to pop my name in the hat. I am available as needed. I have > experience with a lot of the cms' around, especially php based > > Please coordinate with Thomas Chung (Cc'ed) on this. Rahul From satyajit at nerdshack.com Sat Dec 22 04:01:37 2007 From: satyajit at nerdshack.com (Satyajit Ranjeev) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:31:37 +0530 Subject: Fedora-marketing-list Digest, Vol 42, Issue 17 In-Reply-To: <20071221170009.DEF38735BD@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20071221170009.DEF38735BD@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1198296097.3038.8.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> Hi , > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:43:14 +0900 > From: Marc Wiriadisastra > > Did you make slides up? If you did do you mind uploading them somewhere > fp.o maybe so other people can see what you talked about? > > Cheers, > > Marc I'm sorry I did not use slides but I think I'll prepare and upload it. It would be helpful for me too. Thanks a lot for the encouragement guys. It does kindle my spirit to do more. Satyajit -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From aadarsh.b at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 04:46:00 2007 From: aadarsh.b at gmail.com (aadarsh.b at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 10:16:00 +0530 Subject: First public speech as a Fedora ambassador In-Reply-To: <1198243463.3193.26.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> References: <20071221045111.B7E7D7306C@hormel.redhat.com> <1198243463.3193.26.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> Message-ID: dear satyajit this is power of fedora might be u experienced first time, i m also Sr. Corporate Trainer in Indonesia where people are not taking initiative for adapting new technology I had made a plan for weekly technology improvement and now in my university 90% people are working on Fedora as well my university server is also fedora so its simply the power of fedora... On 12/21/07, Satyajit Ranjeev wrote: > Hi, > > I am currently a Linux Trainer in a reputed organization in Chennai, > India and recently had the opportunity to address 30 students on Fedora > who had actually come in for a lecture on Oracle. > > The remarkable thing was that instantaneously 8 of them requested for > cds and dvds and had a wide range of queries regarding Fedora. This > definitely shows that fedora is in a high level of acceptance over here > too. > > All of them enjoy working on it with the compiz window manger and all > the extra graphical features added in this release. The virtualization > with qemu was another component which stole the show. > > I was very pleased with myself about the outcome of the small talk > which showed a lot of positive acceptance. I'm sure that I will be able > to spread the Fedora philosophy in a wide way. > > > Satyajit Ranjeev > -- "A positive attitude can really make dreams come true -- it did for me" With Regards, Adarsh B Voice: (+62) 815 73202526 From mukul.dharwadkar at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 06:23:05 2007 From: mukul.dharwadkar at gmail.com (Mukul Dharwadkar) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:23:05 -0600 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <604aa7910712211428o3edd51d7tbe5515df8f57b340@mail.gmail.com> References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200506t525eaa5cl55e1d6031d72c54a@mail.gmail.com> <1198156359.24378.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200600n501e9e6dgbe06493fe26576c@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910712211428o3edd51d7tbe5515df8f57b340@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, you are right. I don't know 2 years from now how many people will be using it. But I know that whoever will be using F8 or even F9 will be at least 3 versions out of date or will have to reinstall thrice. How many of the "users" would be looking forward to do that on a regular basis unless we come with a in-place upgrade option like what Ubuntu provides. And while I am on that subject a competition need not always mean that you have destroy the opponent. It can always be a healthy competition where both Fedora and Ubuntu can become better and stronger and more widely adopted. If we don't consider Ubuntu as competition then why do we keep a track and follow what is happening in Ubuntu world. I remember not so long ago on the same mailing list. If we don't want to measure the adoption and success rates, then we might as well drop all pretense of developing an operating system for the consumption of user community and limit it for research and educational purposes because it all points to the same thing. Innovation has it's own place, but as I have already said, innovation is no good if nobody is going to use it. Mozilla (specifically Firefox) is a case of innovation driven by and towards an end user need keeping ease of use & adoption in mind. Innovation is not magic. It is driven by specific user demand and necessity. As we say, "Necessity is the mother of Invention". We cannot disregard this point and absolve of our responsibility of providing a good and free (or extremely affordable) alternative to the user by saying that it is as old as mother earth and nothing can be done about it. We are empowered people who have the vision and boldness to challenge the established and create a change. I am just voicing my opinions of what expectations the user community will be having from us. -- Mukul Dharwadkar http://www.dharwadkar.com http://www.dharwadkar.org Sister site: http://www.saraswatibhuvan.org [image: Mukul Dharwadkar's weblog] On Dec 21, 2007 4:28 PM, Jeff Spaleta < jspaleta at gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 20, 2007 10:19 AM, Mukul Dharwadkar < mukul.dharwadkar at gmail.com> > wrote: > > Well I can certainly respect that, but what good is innovation if nobody > (or > > at least not enough) is going to use it. > > How do you know that not enough be are going to use it? 2 years from > now, 5 years from now 10 years from now... can you see that far ahead? > Looking at every 6 month release as the end result, is an absolutely > fantastic way to NOT see how innovations are being adopted. You have > to look much further out than that... at least 2 years. How far would > Ubuntu have come if Debian community wasn't already there for years > and years doing the hard work of putting a distribution together? > Every release of Fedora is a step a long a path. Not an end product. > We choose to put disruptive technology into the distribution so that > long term everyone benefits because we help mature that technology in > an open dialog between users and developers. > > Remind me again, with which distribution does the software for OLPC > share the closest heritage? 5 years out from now will there be > enough OLPC users in the world to satisfy what you personally think > are "enough" users for innovative technology that is being created now > in conjunction with Fedora? > > Innovation is best measured by taking into account of all the ways you > didn't expect it to be used when you were creating it. In that sense, > mozilla is a great example of an innovation generator. By all rights, > they lost the browser war by the time Netscape opened its codebase and > created the Mozilla foundation. They lost it, hands down. Everyone > involved with mozilla should have just packed it up and gone home, IE > ate their lunch in marketshare. But they didn't, and because they > focused heavily on innovating open source technology we've got all > these very interesting web-centric applications that are making use of > xul technology that aren't a traditional browser... not to mention a > pretty nice traditional browser or two as well. > > The real magic of innovation is not how appealing it is when you are > creating it, but how it inspires more people to do new supremely > interesting things in the future. An analogy, this year the color > pink may be appealing for rain jackets, but the innovation of Goretex > was revolutionary when it was created for the space program. I'd > rather have Fedora focus on developing innovations has impactful as > Goretex and not worry so much about what this year's hot color will > be. > > > And I did think that providing a > > viable alternative to Windows was one of the objective of Linux. I > didn't > > compare Fedora with Windows because it is accepted that Microsoft has a > > monopoly on the desktop OS market. It is within the Linux community > where > > the question of popularity exists. > > There are NO valid comprehensive comparable metrics of linux adoption > across openly developed distributions...full stop. You can wave your > hands all you want. But the hard reality is Fedora is the ONLY > distribution that is putting any effort into producing a methodology > in counting adoption trends. > > > I order to abide by our principles I feel we must make our software more > > appealing and usable than the competition, for which the immediate goal > is > > Ubuntu, then MAC and then ultimately challenge the supremacy of Windows. > > if you feel Ubuntu is competition, then you absolutely the wrong > mindset in place to be an effective contributor for Fedora. The Fedora > mission is about being a conduit for upstream development. We > integrate the work of multiple upstreams has faithfully as we can, and > drive the necessary changes back into upstream projects for everyone > to make use of. If you are looking for to make Fedora more appealing > by adding a lot of downstream patches that other distributions don't > get access to via upstream, that is in direct conflict with the > mission. We try very hard limit how we differentiate from upstream to > thematic elements that users can easily change after install. If > there is general UI polish, then we want that to go into the upstream > projects so that everyone making use of those project components to > build a distribution benefit. > > > > > I am not trying to start a flame war. After all we are all on the same > side. > > I just wanted to contribute my thoughts. > > You aren't starting a flame war. This is discussion is as old as the > fedora project. > > -jef > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Smile!!! :) It improves your face value... Visit me at http://www.dharwadkar.com http://www.dharwadkar.org Sister Site: http://www.saraswatibhuvan.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From affix at FedoraProject.org Sat Dec 22 13:59:58 2007 From: affix at FedoraProject.org (Keiran Smith) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 13:59:58 +0000 Subject: First public speech as a Fedora ambassador In-Reply-To: References: <20071221045111.B7E7D7306C@hormel.redhat.com> <1198243463.3193.26.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> Message-ID: Congrats and welcome your students into the amazing world of fedora So far I have only managed to switch 8 peopl over from ubuntu but that constantly increases On 12/22/07, aadarsh.b at gmail.com wrote: > > dear satyajit > this is power of fedora might be u experienced first time, i m also > Sr. Corporate Trainer in Indonesia where people are not taking > initiative for adapting new technology I had made a plan for weekly > technology improvement and now in my university 90% people are working > on Fedora as well my university server is also fedora so its simply > the power of fedora... > > > On 12/21/07, Satyajit Ranjeev wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I am currently a Linux Trainer in a reputed organization in > Chennai, > > India and recently had the opportunity to address 30 students on Fedora > > who had actually come in for a lecture on Oracle. > > > > The remarkable thing was that instantaneously 8 of them requested > for > > cds and dvds and had a wide range of queries regarding Fedora. This > > definitely shows that fedora is in a high level of acceptance over here > > too. > > > > All of them enjoy working on it with the compiz window manger and > all > > the extra graphical features added in this release. The virtualization > > with qemu was another component which stole the show. > > > > I was very pleased with myself about the outcome of the small talk > > which showed a lot of positive acceptance. I'm sure that I will be able > > to spread the Fedora philosophy in a wide way. > > > > > > Satyajit Ranjeev > > > > > -- > "A positive attitude can really make dreams come true -- it did for me" > > With Regards, > Adarsh B > Voice: (+62) 815 73202526 > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 440volt.tux at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 14:54:58 2007 From: 440volt.tux at gmail.com (subhodip biswas) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:24:58 +0530 Subject: First public speech as a Fedora ambassador In-Reply-To: References: <20071221045111.B7E7D7306C@hormel.redhat.com> <1198243463.3193.26.camel@ibm.oakgrove.hom> Message-ID: <539333cb0712220654s2ec00b32wf368c4d054c3654f@mail.gmail.com> Congrats !!! your first speech made a good response .... -- Regards Subhodip Biswas GPG key : FAEA34AB Server : pgp.mit.edu http://subhodipbiswas.wordpress.com http:/www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SubhodipBiswas From nihedmm at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 15:28:42 2007 From: nihedmm at gmail.com (nihed mbarek) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:28:42 +0100 Subject: Fedora News site: Help Needed In-Reply-To: <476C5DA1.5070003@fedoraproject.org> References: <476C4F41.7070307@fedoraproject.org> <3d0809e40712211646s20dace28qb24b7206dfec4935@mail.gmail.com> <476C5DA1.5070003@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <5bddd8fd0712220728xc7070b5gdd1b534a0ad646cd@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I have first some experience on drupal http://fedora-tunisia.org/ I want to help if possible Thanks 2007/12/22, Rahul Sundaram : > > Scott Thistle wrote: > > Feel free to pop my name in the hat. I am available as needed. I have > > experience with a lot of the cms' around, especially php based > > > > > > Please coordinate with Thomas Chung (Cc'ed) on this. > > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- M'BAREK Med Nihed, Fedora Ambassador, TUNISIA, Northern Africa PUB 1024D/FCC5B291 2006-02-28 [expires: 2008-12-27] FPR 16A4 AC3F 0B84 B3D1 A0E5 9BCC AD13 0DAE FCC5 B291 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 16:06:05 2007 From: thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com (susmit shannigrahi) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 21:36:05 +0530 Subject: Fedora News site: Help Needed In-Reply-To: References: <476C4F41.7070307@fedoraproject.org> <1198283375.7443.66.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <476C5959.5010602@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: > I volunteer Me too. -- Regards, Susmit. ====================================== ssh 0x86DD170A http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SusmitShannigrahi ====================================== From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 23:07:17 2007 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 00:07:17 +0100 Subject: Fedora and lack of audio communication with the community Message-ID: <64b14b300712221507u2541733bgfd208e473dc19d6a@mail.gmail.com> Hi, first excuse me if this is the wrong mailing list. If there is better mailing list please point me in the right direction. Fedora has a really strong emphasize on communication and openness, and that is true in most part from the open communication on mailing lists and irc channels. AFAIK there is no fedora podcast, there was one unofficial but it died and it produced only a few (great) shows. I also rarely see and fedora exposure in other podcasts; there are fedora reviews and usually podcast hosts do a interview with Max Spevack once or twice a year and that is it. Why? There are lots of great fedora community members, fedora devels and redhat people that would make great guests on lots of podcasts... I believe they should approach podcast hosts with some interesting Fedora related project, new feature or any other interesting topic and go from there... It would be even better if Fedora had an official podcast, or even better a few official and few unofficial :) I listen to few of the most interesting linux podcasts and one think that made me write this post was the Fedora 8 review and KDE4 review by Chris and Bryan form Linux Action Show podcast. They made a great show and reviewed Fedora 8 and gave their comments what they see as bad and good in Fedora 8 (LAS episode 67). They also said that KDE4 RC1 basically sucks or it should be still called beta not RC1. In the latest episode 68 Aaron Seigo from the KDE project got on as s guest to explain what is going on with the KDE 4.0 and that was a really revealing episode and really informative on multiple levels. This could be their best show to date. It would be great if somebody from Fedora agreed to do an interview for Linux Action Show regarding issues they have with Fedora 8. That would be a GREAT thing for us users and fans of Fedora... Thank you, Valent from Croatia. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Dec 23 07:31:16 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 13:01:16 +0530 Subject: Fedora and lack of audio communication with the community In-Reply-To: <64b14b300712221507u2541733bgfd208e473dc19d6a@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300712221507u2541733bgfd208e473dc19d6a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <476E0EC4.2020904@fedoraproject.org> Valent Turkovic wrote: > Hi, > first excuse me if this is the wrong mailing list. If there is > better mailing list please point me in the right direction. > > Fedora has a really strong emphasize on communication and openness, > and that is true in most part from the open communication on mailing > lists and irc channels. > > AFAIK there is no fedora podcast, there was one unofficial but it died > and it produced only a few (great) shows. > > I also rarely see and fedora exposure in other podcasts; there are > fedora reviews and usually podcast hosts do a interview with Max > Spevack once or twice a year and that is it. > > Why? This is not true. Others like Jeremy Katz have showed up in podcasts. > > There are lots of great fedora community members, fedora devels and > redhat people that would make great guests on lots of podcasts... I > believe they should approach podcast hosts with some interesting > Fedora related project, new feature or any other interesting topic and > go from there... > > It would be even better if Fedora had an official podcast, or even > better a few official and few unofficial :) Are you volunteering to lead the effort? > I listen to few of the most interesting linux podcasts and one think > that made me write this post was the Fedora 8 review and KDE4 review > by Chris and Bryan form Linux Action Show podcast. > > They made a great show and reviewed Fedora 8 and gave their comments > what they see as bad and good in Fedora 8 (LAS episode 67). They also > said that KDE4 RC1 basically sucks or it should be still called beta > not RC1. > > In the latest episode 68 Aaron Seigo from the KDE project got on as s > guest to explain what is going on with the KDE 4.0 and that was a > really revealing episode and really informative on multiple levels. > This could be their best show to date. > > It would be great if somebody from Fedora agreed to do an interview > for Linux Action Show regarding issues they have with Fedora 8. That > would be a GREAT thing for us users and fans of Fedora... I have send a mail before. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Dec 23 12:56:13 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:26:13 +0530 Subject: Here Comes Fedora 8 Message-ID: <476E5AED.7060100@fedoraproject.org> Hi http://lampcomputing.com/node/49 "Fedora 8 comes with GIMP 2.4, OpenOffice.org 2.3 and host of latest versions of free and open source software programs. Fedora also boasts of improvements in the Add/Remove Programs tool, pirut, Pup and yum. You can now add repositories from the graphical interface. Fedora also includes several different spins. Spin is a combination of packages. You can either download a spin from Fedora website or roll your own using Pungi, LiveCD Creator, or Revisor. All in all, Fedora is a fantastic GNU/Linux distribution." Rahul From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 18:58:02 2007 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:58:02 +0100 Subject: Fedora and lack of audio communication with the community In-Reply-To: <476E0EC4.2020904@fedoraproject.org> References: <64b14b300712221507u2541733bgfd208e473dc19d6a@mail.gmail.com> <476E0EC4.2020904@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <64b14b300712231058v3d2d0b38p102ddbf85528f72d@mail.gmail.com> On 12/23/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Valent Turkovic wrote: > > Hi, > > first excuse me if this is the wrong mailing list. If there is > > better mailing list please point me in the right direction. > > > > Fedora has a really strong emphasize on communication and openness, > > and that is true in most part from the open communication on mailing > > lists and irc channels. > > > > AFAIK there is no fedora podcast, there was one unofficial but it died > > and it produced only a few (great) shows. > > > > I also rarely see and fedora exposure in other podcasts; there are > > fedora reviews and usually podcast hosts do a interview with Max > > Spevack once or twice a year and that is it. > > > > Why? > > This is not true. Others like Jeremy Katz have showed up in podcasts. Ok, Jeremy also shows up in podcasts, I wasn't saying that only Max is guest on some podcasts but that other distros and projects have are more involved with their community through podcasts. > > > > There are lots of great fedora community members, fedora devels and > > redhat people that would make great guests on lots of podcasts... I > > believe they should approach podcast hosts with some interesting > > Fedora related project, new feature or any other interesting topic and > > go from there... > > > > It would be even better if Fedora had an official podcast, or even > > better a few official and few unofficial :) > > Are you volunteering to lead the effort? I'm not one of those who just complaing and does nothing for Fedora. If I had the skills, gadgets and time to do a Fedora podcast you would be already hearing me... but there must be some Fedora fans that can do this beside me. I tried to contribute in this way: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=315171 but I'm being completely ignored so far :( And if you lookup my profile on redhat bugzilla you will see a dozen of bugs that I reported and even more bugs on which I contributed. > > I listen to few of the most interesting linux podcasts and one think > > that made me write this post was the Fedora 8 review and KDE4 review > > by Chris and Bryan form Linux Action Show podcast. > > > > They made a great show and reviewed Fedora 8 and gave their comments > > what they see as bad and good in Fedora 8 (LAS episode 67). They also > > said that KDE4 RC1 basically sucks or it should be still called beta > > not RC1. > > > > In the latest episode 68 Aaron Seigo from the KDE project got on as s > > guest to explain what is going on with the KDE 4.0 and that was a > > really revealing episode and really informative on multiple levels. > > This could be their best show to date. > > > > It would be great if somebody from Fedora agreed to do an interview > > for Linux Action Show regarding issues they have with Fedora 8. That > > would be a GREAT thing for us users and fans of Fedora... > > I have send a mail before. > > Rahul You send an email to Chris and Brian from Linux Action Show regarding episode 67? What did you say in that email? Did you ask for a interview? Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 19:04:42 2007 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:04:42 +0100 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?links_for_2007-12-06_=BB_Fedora_8=3A_Close=2C_But?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_No_Cigar?= Message-ID: <64b14b300712231104v5b095904xa99b82cec4a21207@mail.gmail.com> Hi Fedora 8: Close, But No Cigar http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/ "Fedora had a chance - a real chance - to unseat Ubuntu last week. Not for my primary machine, the Thinkpad, but for the Ultra 20 workstation. Given these frustrations, and having killed more hours than I'd alloted on all of the above, I decided at that point to cut bait. Fedora 8 was blown away in favor of Ubuntu and VMWare, the latter of which installed both Gutsy and Windows Server 2008 relatively seamlessly (Vista probably would have loaded but my tester's copy has a bad license key for it and thus I couldn't proceed). So Fedora's virtualization is terrible, then, right? And VMWare is the future? A chain of thought that I would not necessarily have arrived at without my Fedora experiment; proof that we can learn even from our failures. Fedora may not have poached me as a user yet, but I'll be sure to try it again in a few months. Who knows what I'll learn from that experience." -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Dec 23 19:12:14 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:42:14 +0530 Subject: Fedora and lack of audio communication with the community In-Reply-To: <64b14b300712231058v3d2d0b38p102ddbf85528f72d@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300712221507u2541733bgfd208e473dc19d6a@mail.gmail.com> <476E0EC4.2020904@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300712231058v3d2d0b38p102ddbf85528f72d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <476EB30E.1000305@fedoraproject.org> Valent Turkovic wrote: > I'm not one of those who just complaing and does nothing for Fedora. > If I had the skills, gadgets and time to do a Fedora podcast you would > be already hearing me... but there must be some Fedora fans that can > do this beside me. That's what everybody thinks and then the ideas don't reach anywhere. Besides a microphone and recording software there isn't any gadgets needed. > I tried to contribute in this way: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=315171 > but I'm being completely ignored so far :( Umm. No. There has been several responses on suggestions on the same report which is far from being ignored. You said you were willing to do the work involved. If you needed more guidance, you could have asked here. What guidance do you need? > You send an email to Chris and Brian from Linux Action Show regarding > episode 67? What did you say in that email? Did you ask for a > interview? Yes. I said I am interested in responding to the review and discuss about Fedora in general. Rahul From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 19:46:34 2007 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:46:34 +0100 Subject: Fedora and lack of audio communication with the community In-Reply-To: <476EB30E.1000305@fedoraproject.org> References: <64b14b300712221507u2541733bgfd208e473dc19d6a@mail.gmail.com> <476E0EC4.2020904@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300712231058v3d2d0b38p102ddbf85528f72d@mail.gmail.com> <476EB30E.1000305@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <64b14b300712231146m75efa4c6g293eb9c2a96a49da@mail.gmail.com> On 12/23/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Valent Turkovic wrote: > > I'm not one of those who just complaing and does nothing for Fedora. > > If I had the skills, gadgets and time to do a Fedora podcast you would > > be already hearing me... but there must be some Fedora fans that can > > do this beside me. > > That's what everybody thinks and then the ideas don't reach anywhere. > Besides a microphone and recording software there isn't any gadgets needed. Well, you need time for research, time to record, another host (one host podcasts are boring), connections with interesting people in OSS... I travel a lot, and some time because of work or because of other projects I run (an NGO and municipal wireless network...) so you would hear one show every few weeks if I was the host :) > > I tried to contribute in this way: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=315171 > > but I'm being completely ignored so far :( > > Umm. No. There has been several responses on suggestions on the same > report which is far from being ignored. You said you were willing to do > the work involved. If you needed more guidance, you could have asked > here. What guidance do you need? Well, if you have seen the link then you know what I would like to do. I see there are videos and other multimedia materials that fedora community produces but aren't immediately visible to new fedora users. I liked what Ubuntu does with their live gnome cd and I think that it would be great if Fedora also has an exaple folder on it's Desktop Live CD. I need the guidance how I can contribute in this idea. I never contributed anything but bugs so how do I start contributing to this idea? How can I contact Fedora Ambasadors regarding this idea? How much space on CD can be spared for this feature? > > You send an email to Chris and Brian from Linux Action Show regarding > > episode 67? What did you say in that email? Did you ask for a > > interview? > > Yes. I said I am interested in responding to the review and discuss > about Fedora in general. > > Rahul Ah, to bad. I'll send them email to check.. I would like to hear you on LAS podcast. Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Dec 23 19:49:25 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 01:19:25 +0530 Subject: Fedora and lack of audio communication with the community In-Reply-To: <64b14b300712231146m75efa4c6g293eb9c2a96a49da@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300712221507u2541733bgfd208e473dc19d6a@mail.gmail.com> <476E0EC4.2020904@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300712231058v3d2d0b38p102ddbf85528f72d@mail.gmail.com> <476EB30E.1000305@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300712231146m75efa4c6g293eb9c2a96a49da@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <476EBBC5.4070305@fedoraproject.org> Valent Turkovic wrote: > I travel a lot, and some time because of work or because of other > projects I run (an NGO and municipal wireless network...) so you would > hear one show every few weeks if I was the host :) That's actually pretty good for a start as compared to nothing. > I need the guidance how I can contribute in this idea. I never > contributed anything but bugs so how do I start contributing to this > idea? How can I contact Fedora Ambasadors regarding this idea? How > much space on CD can be spared for this feature? You will have to talk to Jeremy about how much spare he can spare. Jeremy outlined what is needed to be done. For the example video content, pick one of the Red Hat videos which are under creative commons license. http://www.redhat.com/videos/ourfilms.html Truth Happens, Inevitable and Choice are fairly popular, generic enough and available in ogg formats. There are a few more you can look up. For music, try http://ogg.jamendo.com/ http://magnatune.com/ Presentation - You can list out what's unique about Fedora in a presentation. Feel free to remix content from http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Presentations. Rahul From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 20:22:45 2007 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:22:45 +0100 Subject: Fedora and lack of audio communication with the community In-Reply-To: <476EBBC5.4070305@fedoraproject.org> References: <64b14b300712221507u2541733bgfd208e473dc19d6a@mail.gmail.com> <476E0EC4.2020904@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300712231058v3d2d0b38p102ddbf85528f72d@mail.gmail.com> <476EB30E.1000305@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300712231146m75efa4c6g293eb9c2a96a49da@mail.gmail.com> <476EBBC5.4070305@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <64b14b300712231222i56cd1378n2ba7e997241db14c@mail.gmail.com> On 12/23/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Valent Turkovic wrote: > > > I travel a lot, and some time because of work or because of other > > projects I run (an NGO and municipal wireless network...) so you would > > hear one show every few weeks if I was the host :) > > That's actually pretty good for a start as compared to nothing. > > > I need the guidance how I can contribute in this idea. I never > > contributed anything but bugs so how do I start contributing to this > > idea? How can I contact Fedora Ambasadors regarding this idea? How > > much space on CD can be spared for this feature? > > You will have to talk to Jeremy about how much spare he can spare. > Jeremy outlined what is needed to be done. For the example video > content, pick one of the Red Hat videos which are under creative commons > license. > > http://www.redhat.com/videos/ourfilms.html > > Truth Happens, Inevitable and Choice are fairly popular, generic enough > and available in ogg formats. There are a few more you can look up. > > For music, try > > http://ogg.jamendo.com/ > http://magnatune.com/ > > Presentation - > > You can list out what's unique about Fedora in a presentation. Feel free > to remix content from http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Presentations. > > Rahul I'll get on it right away... -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 21:18:17 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:18:17 -0500 Subject: Fedora and lack of audio communication with the community In-Reply-To: <476E829C.109@gmail.com> References: <64b14b300712221307q6596884cpa57134bf6f74fd89@mail.gmail.com> <476DA064.50603@gmail.com> <1198421493.25746.4.camel@cutter> <476E829C.109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1198444697.17121.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Bringing this over from f-devel-l, where it shouldn't have been... On Sun, 2007-12-23 at 09:45 -0600, Les Mikesell wrote: > seth vidal wrote: > > Podcasts are useless to the deaf and Hard of Hearing. If you want to put > > a podcast up, fine. if you don't have a transcript of it you're > > excluding that portion of the population, entirely. There is currently > > software to read text in a voice for the blind, we have nothing to > > convert speech to text. > > > > that's why we shouldn't do podcasts. > > Are you against radio as well? Some podcasts are just recordings of > radio sessions that were broadcast live. And most of the technical ones > are just people talking about things that are available in print anyway. Volunteers can and should do constructive things that make them happy; doing a podcast would be a lot better if it included a transcript. I used to do a podcast of Fedora Weekly News, which I assume is acceptable by Seth's standards because it was an audio reading of the already written news. I'd be very hesitant to put a Fedora Project stamp on any podcast that didn't similarly try to cover as many bases as possible. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Dec 23 22:21:23 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 03:51:23 +0530 Subject: OneLaptop-OneVillage Message-ID: <476EDF63.4030204@fedoraproject.org> Hi Very inspiring stories in there. Check it out. http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/newspaper/printedition/sunday/chi-laptop_webdec23,0,2252786,full.story "Doubts about whether poor, rural children really can benefit from quirky little computers evaporate as quickly as the morning dew in this hilltop Andean village, where 50 primary school children got machines from the One Laptop Per Child project six months ago. These offspring of peasant families whose monthly earnings rarely exceed the cost of one of the $188 laptops ? people who can ill afford pencil and paper much less books ? can't get enough of their "XO" laptops." Rahul From wdc at MIT.EDU Mon Dec 24 04:46:42 2007 From: wdc at MIT.EDU (William Cattey) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:46:42 -0500 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <604aa7910712211428o3edd51d7tbe5515df8f57b340@mail.gmail.com> References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200506t525eaa5cl55e1d6031d72c54a@mail.gmail.com> <1198156359.24378.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200600n501e9e6dgbe06493fe26576c@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910712211428o3edd51d7tbe5515df8f57b340@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7E36DC6C-08EA-425C-84D1-704179B2CC1C@mit.edu> Here is a simple metric for you: Each September MIT offers a brief introduction to computing at MIT to all comers, but particularly focused on the incoming freshmen. Institutionally MIT is a Red Hat Enterprise Linux shop. Unfortunately, most incoming freshmen run what is free, not what is supported. For many years the informal poll, "by show of hands, what distro are you running" the majority was Fedora. Starting last year, Fedora took a distant second to Ubuntu. In the "Linux Stand and be Counted Survey" departments, labs, centers and individuals at MIT run a significant majority of Debian/Ubuntu compared to any other distro. Maybe this is just because, like Mandrake before it, there was some significant that made the distro very popular for a time, but then then it was abandoned and the majority returned to the steadfast source of interesting new and useful functionality, Fedora (and Red Hat Linux before it.) My experience, however is: Red Hat Enterprise Linux is for large institutions where ANY change is bad, and where nobody cares about laptops. Functionality is always a couple years behind what people find on Windows, MacOS or Fedora. Fedora is for people interested in playing with and contributing to the bleeding edge of Linux. Stuff is always changing, and it's often different from what everyone else is using, and it sometimes need a little tweaking to get stuff working. Sometimes this is a welcome challenge. Sometimes it's too much of a pain. Ubuntu is for people who want to use Linux, preferably on their laptops, and preferably not for development. But also, Ubuntu is COOL. It is easy to get it going and working with the same stuff that the guy next door runs on the Mac or under Windows. Contributing in the future is a real possibility. I am concerned that Fedora and Red Hat are losing mindshare in a way that a few years down the line will "kill the seed corn." There's no nice middle ground between Red Hat Enterprise with well established functionality, and Fedora with bleeding edge functionality. Well there is but it's called Ubuntu. For the people already committed to the development community, Fedora is perfect just as it is. But for people not sure whether they want to use Linux, or join the developer community, Ubuntu works, but Fedora has issues. Perhaps those who feel as Mukul Dharwadkar and myself will find a way to provide a particular spin on Fedora that will be an intermediate stage between Fedora as it is now, and Enterprise such that the developer community will build from the Fedora code base, not the less interesting, but more usable Debian/Ubuntu code base. -Bill ---- William Cattey Linux Platform Coordinator MIT Information Services & Technology N42-040M, 617-253-0140, wdc at mit.edu http://web.mit.edu/wdc/www/ On Dec 21, 2007, at 5:28 PM, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > if you feel Ubuntu is competition, then you absolutely the wrong > mindset in place to be an effective contributor for Fedora. The Fedora > mission is about being a conduit for upstream development. From jspaleta at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 20:49:42 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:49:42 -0900 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <7E36DC6C-08EA-425C-84D1-704179B2CC1C@mit.edu> References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200506t525eaa5cl55e1d6031d72c54a@mail.gmail.com> <1198156359.24378.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200600n501e9e6dgbe06493fe26576c@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910712211428o3edd51d7tbe5515df8f57b340@mail.gmail.com> <7E36DC6C-08EA-425C-84D1-704179B2CC1C@mit.edu> Message-ID: <604aa7910712241249h14dcb4d1n50aa649e6214727@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 23, 2007 7:46 PM, William Cattey wrote: > I am concerned that Fedora and Red Hat are losing mindshare in a way > that a few years down the line will "kill the seed corn." There's no > nice middle ground between Red Hat Enterprise with well established > functionality, and Fedora with bleeding edge functionality. Well > there is > but it's called Ubuntu. Point to specific functionality... open functionality that Fedora doesn't have that we should. If you are talking about nvidia or ati proprietary drivers out of the box.. then that's a non-starter. What piece of open technology is Fedora not providing that let's people "working with the same stuff that the guy next door runs on the Mac or under Window" It's real easy to speak in generalities and yet not actually say anything significant. > > For the people already committed to the development community, Fedora > is perfect just as it is. > But for people not sure whether they want to use Linux, or join the > developer community, Ubuntu works, but Fedora has issues. Every distribution has issues. What in the Fedora Desktop LiveCD doesn't work? > > Perhaps those who feel as Mukul Dharwadkar and myself will find a way > to provide a particular spin on Fedora that will be an intermediate > stage between Fedora as it is now, and Enterprise such that the > developer community will build from the Fedora code base, not the > less interesting, but more usable Debian/Ubuntu code base. Again isn't the Fedora Desktop Livecd exactly what you want? -jef From jonstanley at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 22:02:39 2007 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:02:39 -0600 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <604aa7910712241249h14dcb4d1n50aa649e6214727@mail.gmail.com> References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200506t525eaa5cl55e1d6031d72c54a@mail.gmail.com> <1198156359.24378.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200600n501e9e6dgbe06493fe26576c@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910712211428o3edd51d7tbe5515df8f57b340@mail.gmail.com> <7E36DC6C-08EA-425C-84D1-704179B2CC1C@mit.edu> <604aa7910712241249h14dcb4d1n50aa649e6214727@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 24, 2007 2:49 PM, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > Point to specific functionality... open functionality that Fedora > doesn't have that we should. I think that what is being referred to here is the Ubuntu 'LTS' releases, that get long term support updates. I 'm kind of on the fence on whether or not we should do this - it means extra developer cycles that may or may not exist, and the fact that we *do* have RHEL and it's derivatives, a la CentOS. Someone looking for a free as in {speech,beer} distribution with long term support I tend to point towards CentOS, but maybe there is middle ground between that and the current Fedora that we don't have. From kanarip at kanarip.com Mon Dec 24 22:19:07 2007 From: kanarip at kanarip.com (Jeroen van Meeuwen) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:19:07 +0100 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200506t525eaa5cl55e1d6031d72c54a@mail.gmail.com> <1198156359.24378.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200600n501e9e6dgbe06493fe26576c@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910712211428o3edd51d7tbe5515df8f57b340@mail.gmail.com> <7E36DC6C-08EA-425C-84D1-704179B2CC1C@mit.edu> <604aa7910712241249h14dcb4d1n50aa649e6214727@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4770305B.2090308@kanarip.com> Jon Stanley wrote: > On Dec 24, 2007 2:49 PM, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > >> Point to specific functionality... open functionality that Fedora >> doesn't have that we should. > > I think that what is being referred to here is the Ubuntu 'LTS' > releases, that get long term support updates. I 'm kind of on the > fence on whether or not we should do this - it means extra developer > cycles that may or may not exist, and the fact that we *do* have RHEL > and it's derivatives, a la CentOS. Someone looking for a free as in > {speech,beer} distribution with long term support I tend to point > towards CentOS, but maybe there is middle ground between that and the > current Fedora that we don't have. > I don't think Ubuntu LTS gives you the latest and greatest unless you upgrade, does it? Same with CentOS; although it might be supported longer then you are going to use it, whenever you feel you want newer software you upgrade to the next release. Meanwhile, it's stable. The Fedora Project moves in with EPEL, Extra Packages for Enterprise Linux, perfectly suitable for a CentOS machine and with the same release and 'support' cycle. Kind regards, Jeroen van Meeuwen -kanarip From mattdm at mattdm.org Mon Dec 24 22:33:17 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 17:33:17 -0500 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <448999300712200506t525eaa5cl55e1d6031d72c54a@mail.gmail.com> <1198156359.24378.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200600n501e9e6dgbe06493fe26576c@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910712211428o3edd51d7tbe5515df8f57b340@mail.gmail.com> <7E36DC6C-08EA-425C-84D1-704179B2CC1C@mit.edu> <604aa7910712241249h14dcb4d1n50aa649e6214727@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071224223317.GA14294@jadzia.bu.edu> On Mon, Dec 24, 2007 at 04:02:39PM -0600, Jon Stanley wrote: > and it's derivatives, a la CentOS. Someone looking for a free as in > {speech,beer} distribution with long term support I tend to point > towards CentOS, but maybe there is middle ground between that and the > current Fedora that we don't have. There was, in Fedora Legacy. But there turned out to be too little interest. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From jonstanley at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 22:38:21 2007 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:38:21 -0600 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <4770305B.2090308@kanarip.com> References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200600n501e9e6dgbe06493fe26576c@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910712211428o3edd51d7tbe5515df8f57b340@mail.gmail.com> <7E36DC6C-08EA-425C-84D1-704179B2CC1C@mit.edu> <604aa7910712241249h14dcb4d1n50aa649e6214727@mail.gmail.com> <4770305B.2090308@kanarip.com> Message-ID: On Dec 24, 2007 4:19 PM, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote: > I don't think Ubuntu LTS gives you the latest and greatest unless you > upgrade, does it? I think that's the whole point. > Same with CentOS; although it might be supported longer then you are > going to use it, whenever you feel you want newer software you upgrade > to the next release. Meanwhile, it's stable. Correct - however security updates are backported to the "old" versions of the software. > The Fedora Project moves in with EPEL, Extra Packages for Enterprise > Linux, perfectly suitable for a CentOS machine and with the same release > and 'support' cycle. Not entirely sure what you mean here. I think what was being called for was a release whereby it's "supported" (with security updates, etc) beyond the current 1 year, however perhaps not as much as the 7 years that RHEL is supported. However, as Matthew said in the e-mail that came in as I was writing this, there was little interest in Fedora Legacy when it existed. What makes us think that there's more of a demand now? It's either the short, bleeding edge release cycle of Fedora as we know it, or the long release cycle of RHEL. Both serve different purposes. -Jon From kanarip at kanarip.com Mon Dec 24 23:35:55 2007 From: kanarip at kanarip.com (Jeroen van Meeuwen) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 00:35:55 +0100 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200600n501e9e6dgbe06493fe26576c@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910712211428o3edd51d7tbe5515df8f57b340@mail.gmail.com> <7E36DC6C-08EA-425C-84D1-704179B2CC1C@mit.edu> <604aa7910712241249h14dcb4d1n50aa649e6214727@mail.gmail.com> <4770305B.2090308@kanarip.com> Message-ID: <4770425B.1090109@kanarip.com> Jon Stanley wrote: >> The Fedora Project moves in with EPEL, Extra Packages for Enterprise >> Linux, perfectly suitable for a CentOS machine and with the same release >> and 'support' cycle. > > Not entirely sure what you mean here. I think what was being called > for was a release whereby it's "supported" (with security updates, > etc) beyond the current 1 year, however perhaps not as much as the 7 > years that RHEL is supported. > EPEL is a Fedora Project effort for Enterprise Linux providing extra packages and updates to those packages for the same amount of time the Enterprise Linux distribution it ships for is supported. I don't really know what their policy is on actively back-porting fixes for security issues, but as far as I know you can at least log bugs again an EPEL package until the end of the release's lifecycle. > However, as Matthew said in the e-mail that came in as I was writing > this, there was little interest in Fedora Legacy when it existed. > What makes us think that there's more of a demand now? It's either > the short, bleeding edge release cycle of Fedora as we know it, or the > long release cycle of RHEL. Both serve different purposes. > Yes, and the shorter release cycle for Fedora -at least in my opinion- helps us to do what we do best, moving forward, not "wasting" resources to what Enterprise Linux does best, being stable. Kind regards, Jeroen van Meeuwen -kanarip From wdc at MIT.EDU Mon Dec 24 23:51:53 2007 From: wdc at MIT.EDU (William Cattey) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 18:51:53 -0500 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <448999300712200600n501e9e6dgbe06493fe26576c@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910712211428o3edd51d7tbe5515df8f57b340@mail.gmail.com> <7E36DC6C-08EA-425C-84D1-704179B2CC1C@mit.edu> <604aa7910712241249h14dcb4d1n50aa649e6214727@mail.gmail.com> <4770305B.2090308@kanarip.com> Message-ID: It turns out that 1000 seats at MIT are switching to Ubuntu from Enterprise. They will not be using LTS, because they expect to need more recent hardware drivers. They are switching to Ubuntu instead of Fedora even though they expect there will be an annual OS update of Ubuntu required, the apt package management system makes a lot of the work to switch from our present tightly integrated OS + alternate versions of packages + additional packages to alternate versions and additional packages layered on a pre-installed system. It is product focus, however that makes Ubuntu attractive to me and many at MIT. With Fedora and Enterprise, the two choices are three year old functionality, or bleeding edge functionality. Example: in November Fedora 8 came out with important laptop power management functionality, but it also shipped with a broken rewrite of NetworkManager, and an alpha version of BIND. Fedora 6 shifted to not getting any attention, and the clock to get off Fedora 7 started EVEN BEFORE FEDORA 8 FUNCTIONALITY WAS STABLE! With Ubuntu, a single common code base is taken care of by different groups serving different clientele. Canonical Inc. will take money from corporate customers who need help managing systems or getting new functionality. Volunteers explore new functionality and move forward on the process of producing open source solutions. At particular points a particular version is flagged for longer term support, but the primary focus is not on exploring new functionality, or on back porting popular functionality to an ancient codebase tailored to customers afraid of change. It is simply: Produce a usable experience with a balance of stable code and new functionality. What Fedora-based spin has this focus? -Bill ---- William Cattey Linux Platform Coordinator MIT Information Services & Technology N42-040M, 617-253-0140, wdc at mit.edu http://web.mit.edu/wdc/www/ On Dec 24, 2007, at 5:38 PM, Jon Stanley wrote: > On Dec 24, 2007 4:19 PM, Jeroen van Meeuwen > wrote: > >> I don't think Ubuntu LTS gives you the latest and greatest unless you >> upgrade, does it? > > I think that's the whole point. > >> Same with CentOS; although it might be supported longer then you are >> going to use it, whenever you feel you want newer software you >> upgrade >> to the next release. Meanwhile, it's stable. > > Correct - however security updates are backported to the "old" > versions of the software. > >> The Fedora Project moves in with EPEL, Extra Packages for Enterprise >> Linux, perfectly suitable for a CentOS machine and with the same >> release >> and 'support' cycle. > > Not entirely sure what you mean here. I think what was being called > for was a release whereby it's "supported" (with security updates, > etc) beyond the current 1 year, however perhaps not as much as the 7 > years that RHEL is supported. > > However, as Matthew said in the e-mail that came in as I was writing > this, there was little interest in Fedora Legacy when it existed. > What makes us think that there's more of a demand now? It's either > the short, bleeding edge release cycle of Fedora as we know it, or the > long release cycle of RHEL. Both serve different purposes. > > -Jon > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 01:51:58 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:51:58 -0900 Subject: Fedora more successful, developer-wise, than Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <1198153233.24378.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910712211428o3edd51d7tbe5515df8f57b340@mail.gmail.com> <7E36DC6C-08EA-425C-84D1-704179B2CC1C@mit.edu> <604aa7910712241249h14dcb4d1n50aa649e6214727@mail.gmail.com> <4770305B.2090308@kanarip.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910712241751v75411f43q8cebffc3b59af63a@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 24, 2007 2:51 PM, William Cattey wrote: > apt > package management system makes a lot of the work to switch from our > present tightly integrated OS + alternate versions of packages + > additional packages to alternate versions and additional packages > layered on a pre-installed system. And you can't accomplish this with yum in a fedora ecosystem of repositories? > It is product focus, however that makes Ubuntu attractive to me and > many at MIT. With Fedora and Enterprise, the two choices are three > year old functionality, or bleeding edge functionality. Example: in > November Fedora 8 came out with important laptop power management > functionality, but it also shipped with a broken rewrite of > NetworkManager, and an alpha version of BIND. Fedora 6 shifted to > not getting any attention, and the clock to get off Fedora 7 started > EVEN BEFORE FEDORA 8 FUNCTIONALITY WAS STABLE! The NM in F8 is not "broken".. in any event there is the older network stack that does not rely on NM for usage cases that NM isn't ready for. NM works for more network situations for my laptop in F8 did it did in F7. > At particular points a particular version is flagged for longer term > support, but the primary focus is not on exploring new functionality, > or on back porting popular functionality to an ancient codebase > tailored to customers afraid of change. It is simply: Produce a > usable experience with a balance of stable code and new > functionality. What Fedora-based spin has this focus? Fedora Legacy was tried ealier and had a 2 year live cycle .. and while there was interest in using such a distribution from a usage standpoint, there was not enough people interested in contributing to actually doing to back ports. When legacy was decommissioned the Fedora lifecycle was adjust to give approximately 13 months of updates, along individuals to 'skip' a Fedora release. There's absolutely nothing stopping another community attempt at 2 year target. -jef From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Dec 29 20:24:18 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 01:54:18 +0530 Subject: Hands-on with the OLPC XO laptop -- and loving it Message-ID: <4776ACF2.6030402@fedoraproject.org> Hi And we are... http://www.linux.com/feature/123730 "The good news is that the OLPC team has worked, and is working, magic. From dream to vision to reality in just a few short years, in spite of Microsoft's taunting, in spite of cut-throat competition on the hardware side from Intel and others, Negroponte and his team have succeeded in bringing the XO to fruition. Best of all, because the software side of the XO equation is free/open source software, it will only improve over time. Unofficially, the number of XOs in North America is now at 20,000 and climbing. More developers means more activities. Everyone involved with OLPC, from Negroponte to Red Hat to the students helping out on IRC, should be proud of what they've done and what they're doing." Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Dec 30 18:11:19 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 23:41:19 +0530 Subject: Fedora 8: An Assault On Ubuntu Message-ID: <4777DF47.3080001@fedoraproject.org> Hi, Looks like a precursor to an actual review. Looking forward to that. Highlighted features include pulseaudio, codeina and specifically the codecbuddy wiki page and the approach to spins. http://www.madpenguin.org/cms/?m=show&id=8094 "With the upcoming release of Fedora 8 (at the time of press time), I see solid indications that Fedora could dethrown Ubuntu with its latest release. I especially like what I'm reading about their work on issues, such as notebook suspend/resume working, power consumption and perhaps most of all, PulseAudio" Slashdot: http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/12/29/2216249.shtml Digg: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Fedora_8_An_Assault_On_Ubuntu Rahul From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Sun Dec 30 21:11:50 2007 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 22:11:50 +0100 Subject: Multiple distro reviews Message-ID: <64b14b300712301311j18eeef2axdf0945f177789173@mail.gmail.com> In this multiple disto review: http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20071203#review Fedora got second worst score, I can't imagine why but still I wanted to share the link. Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From gelios at gmail.com Sun Dec 30 21:18:58 2007 From: gelios at gmail.com (Zhukov Pavel) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 00:18:58 +0300 Subject: Multiple distro reviews In-Reply-To: <64b14b300712301311j18eeef2axdf0945f177789173@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300712301311j18eeef2axdf0945f177789173@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <448999300712301318x48eb3c39v46e161a7e70a681@mail.gmail.com> On 12/31/07, Valent Turkovic wrote: > In this multiple disto review: > http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20071203#review > > Fedora got second worst score, I can't imagine why but still I wanted > to share the link. > > Valent. > > -- > http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ > linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless > registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. > ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > looks like author has never installed fedora, just read some 3-d party reviews. :( From oliver at linux-kernel.at Sun Dec 30 21:38:14 2007 From: oliver at linux-kernel.at (Oliver Falk) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 22:38:14 +0100 Subject: Multiple distro reviews In-Reply-To: <64b14b300712301311j18eeef2axdf0945f177789173@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300712301311j18eeef2axdf0945f177789173@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47780FC6.8050906@linux-kernel.at> Valent Turkovic schrieb: > In this multiple disto review: > http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20071203#review > > Fedora got second worst score, I can't imagine why but still I wanted > to share the link. Oh well. Giving SuSE 8 for pkg management and Fedora only a 5 is a shame. But the summary gives an explanation for the final result: "The bottom line is that you really need to know what you are doing if you want to use Fedora. It is not for novices, although installing this distribution will probably cause you to take a crash course in Linux system configuration, which could result in you becoming a guru, after some considerable frustration. Not recommended for those wishing to convert from using Windows, but developers will probably like the environment." Some numbers of my latest installs: * Red Hat Enterprise Linux (about 10 minutes - kickstart) * Fedora (about 30 minutes, quite fast machine) * S.u.S.E. (about 1 day - in 1996, "pkg management": tarballs!) So S.u.S.E. is worse in installation and worse in pkg management. :-P -of From jspaleta at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 02:06:15 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 17:06:15 -0900 Subject: Fedora 8: An Assault On Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <4777DF47.3080001@fedoraproject.org> References: <4777DF47.3080001@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <604aa7910712301806g1ebf9a78idb7db3737eca5bf4@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 30, 2007 9:11 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi, > > Looks like a precursor to an actual review. Looking forward to that. > Highlighted features include pulseaudio, codeina and specifically the > codecbuddy wiki page and the approach to spins. More importantly this preview-review points out exactly how useful our Feature Roadmapping process is at rewriting the laypress perception of Fedora as an innovator. I fervently believe that as we do a better job at describing the goals and benefits of introducing each new technology, the more likely it will be that'll we will find the people who are enthusiastic about helping smooth out the rough edges on that technology instead of just point out the problems. -jef From tejasdinkar at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 08:47:05 2007 From: tejasdinkar at gmail.com (Tejas Dinkar) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:17:05 +0530 Subject: Multiple distro reviews In-Reply-To: <47780FC6.8050906@linux-kernel.at> References: <64b14b300712301311j18eeef2axdf0945f177789173@mail.gmail.com> <47780FC6.8050906@linux-kernel.at> Message-ID: <9fb23eef0712310047g14e9300egb6d3700257727f35@mail.gmail.com> I smell a bias: According to the TFA: 1) Ubuntu took 3 attempts attempts to install. But still it got an 8 in that field, compared to Fedora which got 7 2) `System configuration can be fiddly, and configuring wireless Internet often requires some knowledge as you probably have to set up NDISwrapper.`.... wtf? Because ubuntu uses some magical kernel which all wireless drivers work? Notice the `you probably`... ie, he never tried 3) Maybe we should have a `select which services to keep running` as part of the installer? You can't deny Fedora enables a LOT of services, many of which take a bit of time to get going. From wolfy at nobugconsulting.ro Mon Dec 31 09:00:29 2007 From: wolfy at nobugconsulting.ro (Manuel Wolfshant) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:00:29 +0200 Subject: Multiple distro reviews In-Reply-To: <9fb23eef0712310047g14e9300egb6d3700257727f35@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300712301311j18eeef2axdf0945f177789173@mail.gmail.com> <47780FC6.8050906@linux-kernel.at> <9fb23eef0712310047g14e9300egb6d3700257727f35@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4778AFAD.2080207@nobugconsulting.ro> On 12/31/2007 10:47 AM, Tejas Dinkar wrote: > I smell a bias: > > According to the TFA: > > 1) Ubuntu took 3 attempts attempts to install. But still it got an 8 > in that field, compared to Fedora which got 7 > 2) `System configuration can be fiddly, and configuring wireless > Internet often requires some knowledge as you probably have to set up > NDISwrapper.`.... wtf? Because ubuntu uses some magical kernel which > all wireless drivers work? Notice the `you probably`... ie, he never > tried > 3) Maybe we should have a `select which services to keep running` as > part of the installer? You can't deny Fedora enables a LOT of > services, many of which take a bit of time to get going. > > Just two weeks ago I have installed Ubuntu on a Dell laptop belonging to a friend. It only took a couple of mouse clicks and no previous knowledge (besides the mere "I know there are some binary drivers needed and they are not included by default"; note the absence of any mention of a specific repository info here) to have ATI (hence 3D video) and Broadcom (hence wireless) to have everything working. Leaving aside any rant or justification about patents and such, from a user point of view I would have noted Ubuntu with 9 and Fedora with 5. As for the difference between "it just works " and "dig on google for what to do in order to add the repository, extract the firmware and install it" From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 16:56:33 2007 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:56:33 +0100 Subject: Multiple distro reviews In-Reply-To: <4778AFAD.2080207@nobugconsulting.ro> References: <64b14b300712301311j18eeef2axdf0945f177789173@mail.gmail.com> <47780FC6.8050906@linux-kernel.at> <9fb23eef0712310047g14e9300egb6d3700257727f35@mail.gmail.com> <4778AFAD.2080207@nobugconsulting.ro> Message-ID: <64b14b300712310856k1cbaeca6w1f95131d822b0e70@mail.gmail.com> On 12/31/07, Manuel Wolfshant wrote: > On 12/31/2007 10:47 AM, Tejas Dinkar wrote: > > I smell a bias: > > > > According to the TFA: > > > > 1) Ubuntu took 3 attempts attempts to install. But still it got an 8 > > in that field, compared to Fedora which got 7 > > 2) `System configuration can be fiddly, and configuring wireless > > Internet often requires some knowledge as you probably have to set up > > NDISwrapper.`.... wtf? Because ubuntu uses some magical kernel which > > all wireless drivers work? Notice the `you probably`... ie, he never > > tried > > 3) Maybe we should have a `select which services to keep running` as > > part of the installer? You can't deny Fedora enables a LOT of > > services, many of which take a bit of time to get going. > > > > > Just two weeks ago I have installed Ubuntu on a Dell laptop belonging to > a friend. It only took a couple of mouse clicks and no previous > knowledge (besides the mere "I know there are some binary drivers needed > and they are not included by default"; note the absence of any mention > of a specific repository info here) to have ATI (hence 3D video) and > Broadcom (hence wireless) to have everything working. > Leaving aside any rant or justification about patents and such, from a > user point of view I would have noted Ubuntu with 9 and Fedora with 5. > As for the difference between "it just works " and "dig on google for > what to do in order to add the repository, extract the firmware and > install it" If you need things "Just to work" and aren't bothered by firmware and other blobs in your kernel why don't you just use LinuxMint? It is an enhanced version of Ubuntu and it "Just Works". Your friends will thank you many times... http://linuxmint.com/ Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic