From tw2113 at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 06:02:51 2007 From: tw2113 at gmail.com (Michael Beckwith) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 01:02:51 -0500 Subject: Fedora merchandise ideas Message-ID: <9b437e950709302302w29f2ecf1lb92437aac646811@mail.gmail.com> As an avid Fedora user and participant(artwork and website lists), I think Fedora could benefit from a bigger list of merchandise, and some more emphasis on its availability. That said, I browsed the redhat brandfuelstores website and came up with a small list of items that I would like to see Fedora's brand on, and would certainly consider purchasing the items with available funding. I feel that getting some merchandise out there would be a good subtle way to advertise the OS and hopefully get people talking. Truth Happens teeshirt - http://redhat.brandfuelstores.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_30 Could be redesigned a little bit to include some quote or promo line relating to Fedora. I know there are some available Ergo Mug - http://redhat.brandfuelstores.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=116 I don't know about you, but this would quickly replace my current travel mug, and I am an avid coffee drinker. Fleece Pullover - http://redhat.brandfuelstores.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_14 People tend to get cold. Perfect for fall/spring Ringer teeshirt - http://redhat.brandfuelstores.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_9 See "Truth Happens" description Redhat Fedora - http://redhat.brandfuelstores.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_17 Technically I already have a navy blue fedora hat that I got from amazon, but if we could get one with an official Fedora blue color, I think people would really consider it. However, this idea has me questioning exactly how much crossover to Redhat it would create. Beanie hat - http://redhat.brandfuelstores.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_61 A hip style among todays youth and future Linux users. Shadowman mug - http://redhat.brandfuelstores.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=201 See "Ergo Mug" description, except for when sitting at home. Now, I'm not saying that merchandise should come to the forefront of priority or anything, but could be a good side project to work on when things slow down. Plus I feel it would be a smart move with all of the press that Linux has been garnering lately and how it's moving up in the OS world. Any thoughts and ideas are welcome. -- ~Michael http://ridleytx.structed.net (for now) http://www.michaelbox.net (eventually) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karlthered2 at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 08:28:23 2007 From: karlthered2 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?H._Gu=E9mar?=) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:28:23 +0200 Subject: Fedora merchandise ideas In-Reply-To: <9b437e950709302302w29f2ecf1lb92437aac646811@mail.gmail.com> References: <9b437e950709302302w29f2ecf1lb92437aac646811@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, merchandises are a great way to promote communities and products. But we should be careful not to confuse people, some still does not distinguish FedoraProject from RedHat. For instance, merely rebranding the "Truth Happens" T-shirt wouldn't help developing a FedoraProject identity, we should develop our own colorscheme and catch lines. H.G -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon at simline.de Mon Oct 1 08:33:34 2007 From: simon at simline.de (JoergSimon) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:33:34 +0200 Subject: Fedora-fr association was born ! In-Reply-To: References: <20070929185614.4d2e81b7@localhost.localdomain> <46FFC136.2060101@kanarip.com> Message-ID: <200710011033.34448.simon@simline.de> Am Sonntag, 30. September 2007 21:34:01 schrieb H. Gu?mar: > Hi, > Fedora-FR should be seen as a companion organisation to fp.o ambassadors. > Fedora-FR gathers hundred people maybe thousands in the future, French > fp.oambassadors are about a dozen. On Feb2007 i was able to see Thomas presentation on Fosdem and i was impressed - what all of you achieved. There was a strong presence of French ambassadors and after i signalized that i am interessted in there work, i had a great time with kind and communicative people. I am sure you know what is the best to achieve your goals in your country. Please don?t forget the world who need your results. Example: googled metisse & fedora - the really needfull articles only in french > As an association, we will be able to collect and share some ressources, > and have a _legal existence_. I had really bad conflicts with Gerold about a Legal Entity - i hate bureaucracy and my opinion is that Fedora Project should not have borders - i don?t like?d the idea to found a german LegalEntity. In the other way i proposed the EMEA Leadership in DEC2006 and now i see this could not established without legal status in Europe. > Fedora-FR aims to ease and leverage French > ambassadors work and organizing meetings between users. > Human contacts are a better way to promote Fedora rather than mailing-lists > and irc. Like i say, think about a liason officer who is able to share with us - i am glad to see Thomas in Rheinfelden. > We're as eager as you to set up an EMEA structure lead by Fedora > Ambassadors, but it cannot replace local user groups and vice-versa. An > EMEA structure should also lean on local user groups to strenghten its > action, if we don't, such structure could only fail. There is a EMEA Structure and the success we had in this Year to have Fudcon on Fosdem and LT2007 with Alan Cox and other familiar Names - the official launch of Fedora 7 on LT 2007 by Max ... this was happen without a legal entity, because of work that have to be done. Ask yourself why you doing this? - For me is fun! Cheers Joerg -- J?rg Simon jsimon at fedoraproject.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon Key Fingerprint: 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 1 08:46:05 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 11:46:05 +0300 Subject: Fedora merchandise ideas In-Reply-To: References: <9b437e950709302302w29f2ecf1lb92437aac646811@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4700B3CD.1060803@nicubunu.ro> H. Gu?mar wrote: > merchandises are a great way to promote communities and products. > But we should be careful not to confuse people, some still does not > distinguish FedoraProject from RedHat. > For instance, merely rebranding the "Truth Happens" T-shirt wouldn't > help developing a FedoraProject identity, > we should develop our own colorscheme and catch lines. Sure, it could be "Infinite Freedom" or whatever, but for *me* the big question: how can I, living in East Europe, buy such things without paying an arm and a leg for international shipping? Yeah, I know the answer: make my own at local print shops... and pay an arm and a leg because I need such small quantities (or settle for poor quality). -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nayyares at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 10:02:56 2007 From: nayyares at gmail.com (Nayyar Ahmad) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:02:56 +0200 Subject: Fedora-fr association was born ! In-Reply-To: <200710011033.34448.simon@simline.de> References: <20070929185614.4d2e81b7@localhost.localdomain> <46FFC136.2060101@kanarip.com> <200710011033.34448.simon@simline.de> Message-ID: <8e1ee2a30710010302g6d26d63fr8b7f86d9a2d032b4@mail.gmail.com> Hi, On 10/1/07, JoergSimon wrote: > > Am Sonntag, 30. September 2007 21:34:01 schrieb H. Gu?mar: > > Hi, > > Fedora-FR should be seen as a companion organisation to fp.oambassadors. > > Fedora-FR gathers hundred people maybe thousands in the future, French > > fp.oambassadors are about a dozen. > > On Feb2007 i was able to see Thomas presentation on Fosdem and i was > impressed - what all of you achieved. There was a strong presence of > French > ambassadors and after i signalized that i am interessted in there work, i > had > a great time with kind and communicative people. I am sure you know what > is > the best to achieve your goals in your country. > Please don?t forget the world who need your results. > Example: googled metisse & fedora - the really needfull articles only in > french yeah of course it is a big achivement for Fr-Ambassadors...and it will get mature with the time. > As an association, we will be able to collect and share some ressources, > > and have a _legal existence_. > > I had really bad conflicts with Gerold about a Legal Entity - i hate > bureaucracy and my opinion is that Fedora Project should not have borders > - i > don?t like?d the idea to found a german LegalEntity. In the other way i > proposed the EMEA Leadership in DEC2006 and now i see this could not > established without legal status in Europe. I will again add my point here, in my opinion we should have a central EMEA Legal Entity, that can work as regularity authority for National Legal Entities. i feel a high degree of need for a central observing authority.... Even if Fr-Ambassadors could help to scale their experience for founding Central EMEA legal entity, it would be very nice... > Fedora-FR aims to ease and leverage French > > ambassadors work and organizing meetings between users. > > Human contacts are a better way to promote Fedora rather than > mailing-lists > > and irc. > > Like i say, think about a liason officer who is able to share with us - i > am > glad to see Thomas in Rheinfelden. sure, Fr-Ambassadors are not out of fedoraproject.org frame :) > We're as eager as you to set up an EMEA structure lead by Fedora > > Ambassadors, but it cannot replace local user groups and vice-versa. An > > EMEA structure should also lean on local user groups to strenghten its > > action, if we don't, such structure could only fail. > > There is a EMEA Structure and the success we had in this Year to have > Fudcon > on Fosdem and LT2007 with Alan Cox and other familiar Names - the official > launch of Fedora 7 on LT 2007 by Max ... this was happen without a legal > entity, because of work that have to be done. > > Ask yourself why you doing this? - For me is fun! you are right, we should keep in mind the cause , no matter how we achieve it :) cheers Cheers Joerg > -- > J?rg Simon > jsimon at fedoraproject.org > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon > Key Fingerprint: > 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688 > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > -- Nayyar Ahmad RHCE (ID:804006858622745) Skype: nayyares Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karlthered2 at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 11:39:30 2007 From: karlthered2 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?H._Gu=E9mar?=) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:39:30 +0200 Subject: Fedora merchandise ideas In-Reply-To: <4700B3CD.1060803@nicubunu.ro> References: <9b437e950709302302w29f2ecf1lb92437aac646811@mail.gmail.com> <4700B3CD.1060803@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: +1 You raised an interesting point, ambassador Gerold Kassube previously said in this list, that he was in contact with Marketing EMEA (Red Hat) to open an EMEA shop. Has somebody some news about it ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gerold at lugd.org Mon Oct 1 11:56:54 2007 From: gerold at lugd.org (Gerold) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:56:54 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Fedora merchandise ideas In-Reply-To: References: <9b437e950709302302w29f2ecf1lb92437aac646811@mail.gmail.com> <4700B3CD.1060803@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <2180.217.162.12.42.1191239814.squirrel@www.gbc.net> We, FabianAffolter and myself are preparing an idea which will be presented at the FAD in November ... The basics are defined, the detailes must be worked out by all ... Regards Gerold > +1 > > You raised an interesting point, ambassador Gerold Kassube previously said > in this list, > that he was in contact with Marketing EMEA (Red Hat) to open an EMEA shop. > Has somebody some news about it ? > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list From tw2113 at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 19:46:25 2007 From: tw2113 at gmail.com (Michael Beckwith) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:46:25 -0500 Subject: Fedora merchandise ideas In-Reply-To: References: <9b437e950709302302w29f2ecf1lb92437aac646811@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9b437e950710011246vc01ca5at94ca30f0d65d24c4@mail.gmail.com> Well, put in a little bit of extra work to come up with another design, for say, the "Truth Happens" shirt, add Fedora's slogan, etc, and we could have its own product. Part of these ideas are for if we want some quick results vs. a more long term product in the end. I think keeping the same design but changing color schemes and slogans and whatnot would help relate Fedora to RedHat but still give it its own distinctness. As a personal user, I just would like to see more availability of Fedora Products as opposed to just one hat, a sticker design, a pen, and a white shirt with the logo. On 10/1/07, H. Gu?mar wrote: > > Hi, > > merchandises are a great way to promote communities and products. > But we should be careful not to confuse people, some still does not > distinguish FedoraProject from RedHat. > For instance, merely rebranding the "Truth Happens" T-shirt wouldn't help > developing a FedoraProject identity, > we should develop our own colorscheme and catch lines. > > H.G > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- ~Michael http://ridleytx.structed.net (for now) http://www.michaelbox.net (eventually) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hudsonman35 at gmail.com Wed Oct 3 02:40:54 2007 From: hudsonman35 at gmail.com (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 22:40:54 -0400 Subject: Fedora-marketing-list Digest, Vol 40, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: <20071002160007.6603B7300F@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20071002160007.6603B7300F@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: I think at any future Linux event, selling of official Fedora t-shirts, buttons, and hats, will provide some funding for Fedora to keep it going for years to come. I love the idea of a blue or black baseball cap with the official Fedora logo, held up by velcro, like the Boston Red Sox caps, for $10 a cap! Themes I want to suggest for F 8 : Free Innovation, F 9, Eternal Voice, and F 10, Vast Resource. For a future logo, a blue opaque looking marble with the F thingie in the middle. Mark McLaughlin linuxglobe.wordpress.com Hopeful Future Fedora Ambassador From christoph.wickert at nurfuerspam.de Wed Oct 3 21:25:45 2007 From: christoph.wickert at nurfuerspam.de (Christoph Wickert) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 23:25:45 +0200 Subject: Fedora-fr association was born ! In-Reply-To: <1191093300.4642.8.camel@F7NB.homenet.local> References: <20070929185614.4d2e81b7@localhost.localdomain> <1191093300.4642.8.camel@F7NB.homenet.local> Message-ID: <1191446745.15534.16.camel@wicktop.localdomain> Am Samstag, den 29.09.2007, 21:15 +0200 schrieb Gerold Kassube: [...] > > As you > all have read in the FAD meeting minutes from Linuxtag were more that 10 > different Country (with Ambassadors) were presented, the Rest without a > french participation was talking about to create a global or at least > EMEA Association. Excuse me Gerold, but... where are the meeting minutes from the FAD at LT2007? I can't find them in the wiki nor on the mailing list and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/FADLinuxTag2007 clearly states "no meeting minutes". So ether I'm blind or we really missed to publish these meeting minutes. In this case it IMHO is unfair to blame someone for not reading something that has never been published. Christoph From gerold at lugd.org Wed Oct 3 21:32:12 2007 From: gerold at lugd.org (Gerold Kassube) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 23:32:12 +0200 Subject: Fedora-fr association was born ! In-Reply-To: <1191446745.15534.16.camel@wicktop.localdomain> References: <20070929185614.4d2e81b7@localhost.localdomain> <1191093300.4642.8.camel@F7NB.homenet.local> <1191446745.15534.16.camel@wicktop.localdomain> Message-ID: <1191447132.3419.4.camel@F7NB.homenet.local> Uuuups, yes Christoph, .... you're totally right. We don't finalize any meeting minutes, me did a realy big mistake. So my apologies to the french association and hope all members can accept also the President. Best wishes to this great success founding this wonderfull association. Gerold Am Mittwoch, den 03.10.2007, 23:25 +0200 schrieb Christoph Wickert: > Am Samstag, den 29.09.2007, 21:15 +0200 schrieb Gerold Kassube: > > [...] > > > > As you > > all have read in the FAD meeting minutes from Linuxtag were more that 10 > > different Country (with Ambassadors) were presented, the Rest without a > > french participation was talking about to create a global or at least > > EMEA Association. > > Excuse me Gerold, but... where are the meeting minutes from the FAD at > LT2007? I can't find them in the wiki nor on the mailing list and > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD/FADLinuxTag2007 clearly states "no > meeting minutes". > > So ether I'm blind or we really missed to publish these meeting minutes. > In this case it IMHO is unfair to blame someone for not reading > something that has never been published. > > Christoph > -- Gerold Kassube -Vorstandsvorsitzender- Linux Usergroup L?rrach e.V. Marie-Curie-Strasse 8 79539 L?rrach _ ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) - against HTML email X & vCards / \ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From duffy at redhat.com Wed Oct 3 21:52:39 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:52:39 -0400 Subject: FUDCon logo Message-ID: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> Hey folks, What do you think about designing an official FUDcon logo to be used at FUDcons all over the world? Some ideas of similarly-used logos: - BarCamp: - http://barcamp.org/LogoGallery <= so many!!!! - Red Hat Summit: (each of these is more complex i think but you see the common logo across them as well) - New Orleans 2005 http://www.redhat.com/g/landing/Sum05BricksTop.jpg - Nashville 2006 http://www.redhat.com/f/summitfiles/presentation/images/interface_01.jpg - San Diego 2007 http://www.redhat.com/g/summit/2007/summit07_highlights_bg.png Any ideas? Anyone have other examples of event logos they've seen used this way we could look at? ~m From robert at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 3 22:14:26 2007 From: robert at fedoraproject.org (Robert Scheck) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:14:26 +0200 Subject: Fedora-fr association was born ! In-Reply-To: <1191446745.15534.16.camel@wicktop.localdomain> References: <20070929185614.4d2e81b7@localhost.localdomain> <1191093300.4642.8.camel@F7NB.homenet.local> <1191446745.15534.16.camel@wicktop.localdomain> Message-ID: <20071003221426.GA20280@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> Evening together, On Wed, 03 Oct 2007, Christoph Wickert wrote: > So ether I'm blind or we really missed to publish these meeting minutes. > In this case it IMHO is unfair to blame someone for not reading > something that has never been published. unfortunately we missed to publish these meeting minutes and nobody noticed. It won't help us now, but here are them (just FYI): ----- Forwarded message from Jeroen van Meeuwen ----- Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 20:11:05 +0200 From: Jeroen van Meeuwen To: Andreas Rau, Florian Brand, Fabian Affolter, Jeroen van Meeuwen, Jens Kuehnel, Joerg Simon, Kushal Das, Max Spevack, Mike McGrath, Robert M. Albrecht, Robert Scheck, Stefan Held, Christoph Wickert, Sebastian Vahl, Francesco Ugolini, Sandro Mathys CC: Thomas Canniot Subject: FAD LinuxTag, Berlin 01-06-2007 Everyone, here follows the meeting minutes from our FADCon meeting, at LinuxTag in Berlin. Attendees include: Stefan, Jeroen, Francesco, Max, Kushal, Sebastian, Jens, Gerold, Pawwal, Fabian, Robert, Christoph Topics that have been discussed include: * Meeting Times & Structure * Marketing * Skill List * Key Points for Organizing an Event * European Infrastructure ######## Topic: Meeting Times & Structure Key Note: How to organize the meetings on IRC, or what time to use for the meetings? - Send a couple of proposals to FAMSCo 1) Split meetings per region, and have some key members of each region arrange the meetings and give feedback to FAMSCo 2) ...? Actions: - Create more proposals for FAMSCo (anyone) ######## Topic: Marketing Key Note: Getting Fedora marketing in general, and Europe specifically Some thoughts: - Have someone within Red Hat take care of marketing for Fedora in cooperation with the Ambassador(s) - Tasks: Improving overall Fedora presence, Press releases about events / releases / etc., Improve Fedora Exposure - Set simple goals for marketing - /me has sent an email to Max reminding him he should get the marketing m-l (back) into shape. - Webshop (see also European Infrastructure) ######## Topic: Skill List Key Note: Get a skill list of ambassadors and other volunteers so that anyone looking for (example) an OLPC guru to speak at an event, they're listed somewhere. If you have a booth at the event, use the skill list so that you know who to get when someone comes walking up to the booth asking questions about OLPC (which of course happens to be that one thing you don't know anything about) Actions: We did not agree on any actions to be taken here, yet. ######## Topic: Organization Key Points / Check List Key Note: Get a document (WikiPage) describing a number of common culprits when organizing an event, or even a "complete" task list. Action: We did not agree on any actions to be taken here, yet. ######## Topic: European Infrastructure Key Note: What is EI to be? Tasks, responsibilities, opportunities, benefits Ideas: - Have someone within Red Hat take Max's function as a Fedora Project leader as far as Europe is concerned. - Wiki translations - Website balancing - other technical stuff - Decisions are made faster - Raising or getting Money / Funding will be easier, faster - Marketing stuff is local - Eventbox to send to events taking place in Europe - Budget to arrange expenses for speakers travelling to show at an event - Non-profit organization set-up - Board Members - larger, greater, longer FUDCons, not during LinuxTag but before/after Kind regards, Jeroen van Meeuwen -kanarip ----- End forwarded message ----- Greetings, Robert From mattdm at mattdm.org Thu Oct 4 01:44:27 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 21:44:27 -0400 Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> References: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20071004014427.GA16170@jadzia.bu.edu> On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 05:52:39PM -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > What do you think about designing an official FUDcon logo to be used at > FUDcons all over the world? In favor. If you can work my picture into it, so much the better. *grin* -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From duffy at redhat.com Thu Oct 4 03:22:29 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 23:22:29 -0400 Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <20071004014427.GA16170@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> <20071004014427.GA16170@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <47045C75.4060206@redhat.com> Matthew Miller wrote: > On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 05:52:39PM -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: >> What do you think about designing an official FUDcon logo to be used at >> FUDcons all over the world? > > In favor. If you can work my picture into it, so much the better. *grin* Well... here is what I came up with: http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos.1.png The SVG is here: http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos.svg If you see any hope in any of these, PLEASE have at it. ~m From duffy at redhat.com Thu Oct 4 03:25:22 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 23:25:22 -0400 Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <47045C75.4060206@redhat.com> References: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> <20071004014427.GA16170@jadzia.bu.edu> <47045C75.4060206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47045D22.7090003@redhat.com> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > The SVG is here: > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos.svg > > If you see any hope in any of these, PLEASE have at it. P.S. The font is MgOpen Modata and it is available here: http://www.ellak.gr/fonts/mgopen/index.en.html The font is licensed under the Bitstream Vera license. ~m From kamisamanou at kamisamanou.net Thu Oct 4 03:56:26 2007 From: kamisamanou at kamisamanou.net (Kamisamanou Burgess) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:56:26 -0500 Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <47045C75.4060206@redhat.com> References: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> <20071004014427.GA16170@jadzia.bu.edu> <47045C75.4060206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <5dbb83710710032056o4f4fddc1y3296ba8e3edde24@mail.gmail.com> On 10/3/07, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 05:52:39PM -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > >> What do you think about designing an official FUDcon logo to be used at > >> FUDcons all over the world? > > > > In favor. If you can work my picture into it, so much the better. *grin* > > Well... here is what I came up with: > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos.1.png > > The SVG is here: > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos.svg > > If you see any hope in any of these, PLEASE have at it. > > ~m > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > I like these. Good Suggestions -- Sayonara, Kamisamanou Burgess http://www.kamisamanou.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Oct 4 08:55:43 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 11:55:43 +0300 Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <47045C75.4060206@redhat.com> References: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> <20071004014427.GA16170@jadzia.bu.edu> <47045C75.4060206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4704AA8F.8070401@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: >> On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 05:52:39PM -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: >>> What do you think about designing an official FUDcon logo to be used >>> at FUDcons all over the world? > > Well... here is what I came up with: And my "blingy" variations on your design: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/fudcon-logos-n.png with sources: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/fudcon-logos-n.svg -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com Thu Oct 4 12:09:06 2007 From: thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com (susmit shannigrahi) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 17:39:06 +0530 Subject: Announcing first (unofficial) public fedora mirror, India. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi *, WBUT (http://wbut.net) is glad to announce the opening up of their private Fedora mirror for public use. Probably, this is the first Public fedora mirror in India.(At least I am not aware of any other.) Though due to bandwidth constrain we are not considering ourself to be listed as a official mirror, we may be so in near future. It follows the standard directory structure and only mirror i386 and x86_64. Also we don't mirror srpms. The url is http://mirror.wbut.ac.in Happy downloading. -- Regards, Susmit. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ssh 0x86DD170A http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SusmitShannigrahi -- Regards, Susmit. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ssh 0x86DD170A http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SusmitShannigrahi From dimitris at glezos.com Thu Oct 4 12:31:40 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 13:31:40 +0100 Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <47045C75.4060206@redhat.com> References: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> <20071004014427.GA16170@jadzia.bu.edu> <47045C75.4060206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1191501100.5405.0.camel@shuttle> ???? 03-10-2007, ????? ???, ??? ??? 23:22 -0400, ?/? M?ir?n Duffy ??????: > Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 05:52:39PM -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > >> What do you think about designing an official FUDcon logo to be used at > >> FUDcons all over the world? > > > > In favor. If you can work my picture into it, so much the better. *grin* > > Well... here is what I came up with: > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos.1.png > > The SVG is here: > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos.svg > > If you see any hope in any of these, PLEASE have at it. Good suggestions M?ir?n! H/U feel nice for the purpose, I also like the flowery/blossom feeling of M. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 4 17:41:07 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:11:07 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7: A Solid Core Distribution Message-ID: <470525B3.1090908@fedoraproject.org> Hi A tad late but a comprehensive solid review http://www.brighthub.com/Reviews/tabid/53/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/103/Fedora-7-A-Solid-Core-Distribution.aspx "Overall, Fedora is a good distribution to consider both for an easy-to-use desktop and for a basic home or small-office server. The user interface and security features are first-class, and the rest of the environment is straightforward, particularly if you are used to Red Hat. When deciding between Linux distributions to try out, Fedora should certainly be on the list." Rahul From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Thu Oct 4 18:05:21 2007 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:05:21 -0300 Subject: Brazilian Events Message-ID: <47052B61.5040607@projetofedora.org> News and pictures about the event II ENSL - Aracaju - SE - Brazil http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/IIENSL I'm going to another event today in Brasilia - DF See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/IILINUXFESTIVAL for status and details. Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira Brazilian Fedora Project www.projetofedora.org From hudsonman35 at gmail.com Thu Oct 4 22:15:30 2007 From: hudsonman35 at gmail.com (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 18:15:30 -0400 Subject: FUDcon and XO Laptop Event! Message-ID: The next major FUDcon should also be a media event because the XO Laptop needs funding and since it is based on Fedora, it is time to ask Fmr. Pres. Clinton and the XO Laptop Foundation's Chairman to come together to talk about the XO Project and then afterwards Fedora 9 and 10 will be discussed! With the media there, a lot more people will learn about both the XO Laptop and Fedora! What does everyone think of that? Mark McLaughlin - linuxglobe.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mattdm at mattdm.org Thu Oct 4 23:34:05 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:34:05 -0400 Subject: FUDcon and XO Laptop Event! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071004233405.GA21637@jadzia.bu.edu> On Thu, Oct 04, 2007 at 06:15:30PM -0400, Markus McLaughlin wrote: > The next major FUDcon should also be a media event because the XO Laptop Kind of hard to get anything done at the FUDcon if it's also a circus.... -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From marketing-list at fedoralinks.org Fri Oct 5 01:06:53 2007 From: marketing-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 20:06:53 -0500 Subject: FUDcon and XO Laptop Event! In-Reply-To: <20071004233405.GA21637@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20071004233405.GA21637@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <47058E2D.8070209@fedoralinks.org> Matthew Miller wrote: > On Thu, Oct 04, 2007 at 06:15:30PM -0400, Markus McLaughlin wrote: >> The next major FUDcon should also be a media event because the XO Laptop > > Kind of hard to get anything done at the FUDcon if it's also a circus.... > Yeah the barcamp like we had in Boston this past spring was great, very productive and fun also. Robert 'Bob' Jensen http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen Fedora Unity Project http://fedoraunity.org/ From gdk at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 13:37:17 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 09:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FUDcon and XO Laptop Event! In-Reply-To: <20071004233405.GA21637@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20071004233405.GA21637@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Oct 2007, Matthew Miller wrote: > Kind of hard to get anything done at the FUDcon if it's also a circus.... I disagree. You just have to make sure that the Big Top is well isolated from the roustabouts who are doing the work out back. :) --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From gdk at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 13:43:38 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 09:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. Message-ID: What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? Max and I gave a Fedora talk at the Triangle Linux Users Group not too long ago. Luis Villa was in attendance as well, and in the audience participation segment of the talk, Luis slipped this gem in. It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks think? --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From duffy at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 13:50:31 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 09:50:31 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47064127.4000803@redhat.com> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? > > Max and I gave a Fedora talk at the Triangle Linux Users Group not too > long ago. Luis Villa was in attendance as well, and in the audience > participation segment of the talk, Luis slipped this gem in. > > It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks think? Wow, I really like it... It succinctly points out how we are different from other distros, and I think our defining characteristic.... the alliteration is nice too :) ~m From marketing-list at fedoralinks.org Fri Oct 5 13:49:23 2007 From: marketing-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 08:49:23 -0500 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <47064127.4000803@redhat.com> References: <47064127.4000803@redhat.com> Message-ID: <470640E3.1030306@fedoralinks.org> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: >> >> What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? >> >> Max and I gave a Fedora talk at the Triangle Linux Users Group not too >> long ago. Luis Villa was in attendance as well, and in the audience >> participation segment of the talk, Luis slipped this gem in. >> >> It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks think? > > Wow, I really like it... It succinctly points out how we are different > from other distros, and I think our defining characteristic.... the > alliteration is nice too :) > > ~m > Yeah that pretty much hits the nail on the head IMO. Robert 'Bob' Jensen http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen Fedora Unity Project http://fedoraunity.org/ From nayyares at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 13:57:26 2007 From: nayyares at gmail.com (Nayyar Ahmad) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 15:57:26 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <47064127.4000803@redhat.com> References: <47064127.4000803@redhat.com> Message-ID: <8e1ee2a30710050657v7144d16eu81512fb107459e33@mail.gmail.com> +1 On 10/5/07, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > > > What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? > > > > Max and I gave a Fedora talk at the Triangle Linux Users Group not too > > long ago. Luis Villa was in attendance as well, and in the audience > > participation segment of the talk, Luis slipped this gem in. > > > > It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks > think? > > Wow, I really like it... It succinctly points out how we are different > from other distros, and I think our defining characteristic.... the > alliteration is nice too :) > > ~m > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Nayyar Ahmad RHCE (ID:804006858622745) Skype: nayyares Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sankarshan.mukhopadhyay at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 13:57:01 2007 From: sankarshan.mukhopadhyay at gmail.com (Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:27:01 +0530 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <470642AD.8080807@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? > > Max and I gave a Fedora talk at the Triangle Linux Users Group not too > long ago. Luis Villa was in attendance as well, and in the audience > participation segment of the talk, Luis slipped this gem in. > > It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks think? Awesomeness has never been so succinctly short (and Luis says he's a lawyer now ? ;) ) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHBkKtXQZpNTcrCzMRAn9oAJ0VGpK3og94eVSPWlz+dtmN3YWMhQCgpFWO JaDsyjxD8V4hU9TiD31F/jY= =JSrR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kanarip at kanarip.com Fri Oct 5 13:59:22 2007 From: kanarip at kanarip.com (Jeroen van Meeuwen) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 15:59:22 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4706433A.701@kanarip.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? > > Max and I gave a Fedora talk at the Triangle Linux Users Group not too > long ago. Luis Villa was in attendance as well, and in the audience > participation segment of the talk, Luis slipped this gem in. > > It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks think? > > --g > I'm loving it. We could then also add to the fedora-release RPM: Provides: Freedom Kind regards, Jeroen van Meeuwen -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHBkM6KN6f2pNCvwgRAif4AKCE2o8MwZE8y8iwaOKLEjILA1u5zgCeMl8L 09UwM9ktRqOAcvKNoxWj6Xg= =NzE+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 5 14:04:46 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:34:46 +0530 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? > > Max and I gave a Fedora talk at the Triangle Linux Users Group not too > long ago. Luis Villa was in attendance as well, and in the audience > participation segment of the talk, Luis slipped this gem in. > > It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks think? So who is updating the website now? ;-) Rahul From duffy at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 14:07:11 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:07:11 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: >> >> What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? >> >> Max and I gave a Fedora talk at the Triangle Linux Users Group not too >> long ago. Luis Villa was in attendance as well, and in the audience >> participation segment of the talk, Luis slipped this gem in. >> >> It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks think? > > So who is updating the website now? ;-) Well... Is it okay to have a release-specific slogan and then an overall slogan? ~m From jeremy.hogan at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 14:11:16 2007 From: jeremy.hogan at gmail.com (Jeremy Hogan) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:11:16 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <556f970a0710050711j21a8322dlb130dc8683056a91@mail.gmail.com> Hrmm. That's pretty good. +1 --jeremy On 10/5/07, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > > What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? > > Max and I gave a Fedora talk at the Triangle Linux Users Group not too > long ago. Luis Villa was in attendance as well, and in the audience > participation segment of the talk, Luis slipped this gem in. > > It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks think? > > --g > > -- > Greg DeKoenigsberg > Community Development Manager > Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 > "To whomsoever much hath been given... > ...from him much shall be asked" > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 5 14:14:37 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:44:37 +0530 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> Message-ID: <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: >>> >>> What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? >>> >>> Max and I gave a Fedora talk at the Triangle Linux Users Group not >>> too long ago. Luis Villa was in attendance as well, and in the >>> audience participation segment of the talk, Luis slipped this gem in. >>> >>> It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks >>> think? >> >> So who is updating the website now? ;-) > > Well... > > Is it okay to have a release-specific slogan and then an overall slogan? Yes as long as we somehow make it clear which one is what. Rahul From jkeating at j2solutions.net Fri Oct 5 14:17:12 2007 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (jkeating) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:17:12 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071005101712.04767f0b@j2solutions.net> On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 09:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > Max and I gave a Fedora talk at the Triangle Linux Users Group not > too long ago. Luis Villa was in attendance as well, and in the > audience participation segment of the talk, Luis slipped this gem in. > > It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks > think? I think it's pretty awesome for a project wide slogan. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From duffy at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 14:27:14 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:27:14 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Yes as long as we somehow make it clear which one is what. Well... http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/temp/freedom.png whatcha think ~m From gdk at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 14:32:20 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:32:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Well... > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/temp/freedom.png > > whatcha think Yep. I don't think I've ever seen this list agree so quickly on *anything*. Let's let it bake for a little while longer, but I think that very soon we're going to be pimping this as "The Fedora Message". Which probably means collateral, refocusing the talking points, etc., etc. --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From sudheer.s at binaryvibes.co.in Fri Oct 5 14:38:59 2007 From: sudheer.s at binaryvibes.co.in (Sudheer Satyanarayana) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 20:08:59 +0530 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <20071005101712.04767f0b@j2solutions.net> References: <20071005101712.04767f0b@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <47064C83.5080005@binaryvibes.co.in> I love the slogan. I am talking about Fedora in an GNU/Linux training event on 13 Oct, 07 conducted by ITPF, Banglaore, India. Inspired by this slogan, I got new ideas to talk about in the event. jkeating wrote: > On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 09:43:38 -0400 (EDT) > Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > >> Max and I gave a Fedora talk at the Triangle Linux Users Group not >> too long ago. Luis Villa was in attendance as well, and in the >> audience participation segment of the talk, Luis slipped this gem in. >> >> It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks >> think? >> > > I think it's pretty awesome for a project wide slogan. > > -- With Warm Regards, Sudheer. S http://www.binaryvibes.co.in From paulds at bu.edu Fri Oct 5 14:46:28 2007 From: paulds at bu.edu (Paul Stauffer) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:46:28 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20071005144628.GA26504@jadzia.bu.edu> On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 10:27:14AM -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/temp/freedom.png > whatcha think Looks pretty good in conjunction with the logo. A little bit of a tangent: If the Project adopts an official slogan like this that we intend to use on an ongoing basis as a distinguishing identifier, it might be a good idea to clearly indicate it as a trademark. I don't know what all the requirements are for doing that... like, would we need to stick a little "TM" next to it all the time, or just indicate in the small print somewhere something like, "'Fedora', 'Fedora Project', the funny little speech balloon logo, and 'Freedom is a Feature' are trademarks of the Fedora Project". Aside from the possible legal reasons for doing this, clearly distinguishing it as a trademark would emphasize that it is the slogan of the Project itself, and not just a catch-phrase for whatever the release of the moment is. Just a thought... - Paul -- Paul Stauffer Manager of Research Computing Computer Science Department Boston University From mattdm at mattdm.org Fri Oct 5 14:50:14 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:50:14 -0400 Subject: FUDcon and XO Laptop Event! In-Reply-To: References: <20071004233405.GA21637@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <20071005145014.GA28206@jadzia.bu.edu> On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 09:37:17AM -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > >Kind of hard to get anything done at the FUDcon if it's also a circus.... > I disagree. You just have to make sure that the Big Top is well isolated > from the roustabouts who are doing the work out back. :) Well, I was skeptical about the whole barcamp thing last time and that totally worked, so I'll defer to you here. Bring on the circus! -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From gdk at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 14:54:12 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <20071005144628.GA26504@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> <20071005144628.GA26504@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, Paul Stauffer wrote: > A little bit of a tangent: If the Project adopts an official slogan like > this that we intend to use on an ongoing basis as a distinguishing > identifier, it might be a good idea to clearly indicate it as a trademark. > I don't know what all the requirements are for doing that... like, would we > need to stick a little "TM" next to it all the time, or just indicate in the > small print somewhere something like, "'Fedora', 'Fedora Project', the funny > little speech balloon logo, and 'Freedom is a Feature' are trademarks of the > Fedora Project". Aside from the possible legal reasons for doing this, > clearly distinguishing it as a trademark would emphasize that it is the > slogan of the Project itself, and not just a catch-phrase for whatever the > release of the moment is. *blink blink* "Freedom is a Feature" is a trademark of The Fedora Project and Red Hat, Inc. Use of the words "Freedom is a Feature" without express written consent is strictly prohibited by U.S. and International Law. Um, I don't think that would look great on Slashdot. I'd much rather mount a big campaign after the fact that says "$BIGSCARYENTITY stole that line from Fedora." --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Oct 5 15:31:13 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 18:31:13 +0300 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> <20071005144628.GA26504@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <470658C1.3060202@nicubunu.ro> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > "Freedom is a Feature" is a trademark of The Fedora Project and Red Hat, > Inc. Use of the words "Freedom is a Feature" without express written > consent is strictly prohibited by U.S. and International Law. > > Um, I don't think that would look great on Slashdot. > > I'd much rather mount a big campaign after the fact that says > "$BIGSCARYENTITY stole that line from Fedora." What we should to to "protect": when we go live with the slogan for the first time we should do *a lot* of noise about it, not just put quietly a new banner on the site. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From paulds at bu.edu Fri Oct 5 15:36:39 2007 From: paulds at bu.edu (Paul Stauffer) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:36:39 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> <20071005144628.GA26504@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <20071005153639.GJ18215@jadzia.bu.edu> On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 10:54:12AM -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > "Freedom is a Feature" is a trademark of The Fedora Project and Red Hat, > Inc. Use of the words "Freedom is a Feature" without express written > consent is strictly prohibited by U.S. and International Law. > > Um, I don't think that would look great on Slashdot. Yeah? I'm not saying we try to make a big deal about it or anything. You think someone else would? Why? I mean, the logo is a trademark too, right? Why would an official slogan that would be frequently used in connection with the logo be any different? Don't any of the other distributions have trademark slogans? Or are you just remarking on the perceived irony of a phrase containing the word "freedom" being considered a form of intellectual property? If we really do want to have some sort of recognizable pithy slogan that people will mentally associate with Fedora, then that slogan will clearly be a key part of Fedora's brand identity. That's what trademarks *are*. I don't see any reason to intentionally ignore that. - Paul -- Paul Stauffer Manager of Research Computing Computer Science Department Boston University From gdk at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 15:37:52 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <470658C1.3060202@nicubunu.ro> References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> <20071005144628.GA26504@jadzia.bu.edu> <470658C1.3060202@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: >> "Freedom is a Feature" is a trademark of The Fedora Project and Red Hat, >> Inc. Use of the words "Freedom is a Feature" without express written >> consent is strictly prohibited by U.S. and International Law. >> >> Um, I don't think that would look great on Slashdot. >> >> I'd much rather mount a big campaign after the fact that says >> "$BIGSCARYENTITY stole that line from Fedora." > > What we should to to "protect": when we go live with the slogan for the first > time we should do *a lot* of noise about it, not just put quietly a new > banner on the site. Yep. I agree 100%. --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From gdk at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 15:46:57 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <20071005153639.GJ18215@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> <20071005144628.GA26504@jadzia.bu.edu> <20071005153639.GJ18215@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, Paul Stauffer wrote: > Or are you just remarking on the perceived irony of a phrase containing > the word "freedom" being considered a form of intellectual property? This point exactly. With other slogans, I'd be less concerned. With this slogan, the idea of protecting the mark gives me some pretty serious heartburn. > If we really do want to have some sort of recognizable pithy slogan that > people will mentally associate with Fedora, then that slogan will > clearly be a key part of Fedora's brand identity. That's what > trademarks *are*. I don't see any reason to intentionally ignore that. Ordinarily, I'd agree with you. In this *particular* instance, I don't. Yet. I could be persuaded. --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From mattdm at mattdm.org Fri Oct 5 15:58:01 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:58:01 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> <20071005144628.GA26504@jadzia.bu.edu> <20071005153639.GJ18215@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 11:46:57AM -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > >Or are you just remarking on the perceived irony of a phrase containing > >the word "freedom" being considered a form of intellectual property? > This point exactly. With other slogans, I'd be less concerned. With this > slogan, the idea of protecting the mark gives me some pretty serious > heartburn. Maybe we could leave off the TM but include somewhere some lighthearted fine print about it being a trademark irony notwithstanding and we know that sounds silly but hey, gotta use the law to protect freedom too. I'm too tired to be really witty right now but maybe someone else can pick up from there. :) -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From duffy at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 16:01:54 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?TcOhaXLDrW4gRHVmZnk=?=) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 12:01:54 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <470658C1.3060202@nicubunu.ro> References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> <20071005144628.GA26504@jadzia.bu.edu> <470658C1.3060202@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <47065FF2.6010509@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > What we should to to "protect": when we go live with the slogan for the > first time we should do *a lot* of noise about it, not just put quietly > a new banner on the site. any ideas on how to promote it? this is kind of what i was thinking altho, heh, i was too lazy to gimp the photo up to make it more suitable for the text otherwise it'd be bigger and positioned a bit more nicely: http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/temp/freedom-slogan.png Photo is 'Explosion of Light Across the Sky' by Dean Souglass and is CC Attribution 2.0: http://www.flickr.com/photos/deansouglass/1111243853/ (another one that looked nice to use, http://www.flickr.com/photos/75325073 at N00/1100273086) ~m From duffy at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 16:08:55 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 12:08:55 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> <20071005144628.GA26504@jadzia.bu.edu> <20071005153639.GJ18215@jadzia.bu.edu> <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <47066197.9070601@redhat.com> Matthew Miller wrote: > On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 11:46:57AM -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: >>> Or are you just remarking on the perceived irony of a phrase containing >>> the word "freedom" being considered a form of intellectual property? >> This point exactly. With other slogans, I'd be less concerned. With this >> slogan, the idea of protecting the mark gives me some pretty serious >> heartburn. > > Maybe we could leave off the TM but include somewhere some lighthearted fine > print about it being a trademark irony notwithstanding and we know that > sounds silly but hey, gotta use the law to protect freedom too. I'm too > tired to be really witty right now but maybe someone else can pick up from > there. :) while the slogan is a pretty nice statement of a defining quality of fedora - omfg will the world end if someone else uses it? e.g., if $DISTRO starts using it AND actually backs it by you know, not shipping patent-infringing codecs in their distro... well isn't that what we WANT? you know, others to follow our lead? and, if they pick up the slogan and continue to produce a not entirely free distro, well they just look stupid then! :) ~m From gdk at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 16:10:32 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 12:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> <20071005144628.GA26504@jadzia.bu.edu> <20071005153639.GJ18215@jadzia.bu.edu> <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, Matthew Miller wrote: > Maybe we could leave off the TM but include somewhere some lighthearted > fine print about it being a trademark irony notwithstanding and we know > that sounds silly but hey, gotta use the law to protect freedom too. I'm > too tired to be really witty right now but maybe someone else can pick > up from there. :) Maybe. Let me be honest about another motivation: my suspicions about the general usefulness of "protecting the marks" of open source projects. I admire the Debian practice of having some marks that are fiercely protected, and other marks that are completely open. The Debian swirl is completely open; the Debian swirl atop the genie bottle is fiercely protected. Which has allowed the open Debian mark to proliferate. I'd hoped to get this kind of agreement with Red Hat legal in regards to the Fedora mark -- i.e. create an open Fedora mark that anyone could use in any way they wished -- but was unsuccessful. As a consequence, Fedora must now take a very aggressive stance on mark usage, which takes up legal time and resources that could, IMHO, be *much* better spent elsewhere. It also leads to long and confusing Board-level discussions about "who is entitled to use the Fedora mark and when," in all kinds of areas: respins, derivative works, ambassador collateral, etc., etc. There are some pretty long and protracted debates about The Value of Marks to the open source community. The OSI's aggressive enforcement of their Open Source mark certainly hasn't prevented the Enemies of Open Source from co-opting and confusing the Open Source mark, for instance. --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From dimitris at glezos.com Fri Oct 5 16:25:45 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 17:25:45 +0100 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1191601545.6163.6.camel@shuttle> ???? 05-10-2007, ????? ???, ??? ??? 09:43 -0400, ?/? Greg DeKoenigsberg ??????: > What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? > > Max and I gave a Fedora talk at the Triangle Linux Users Group not too > long ago. Luis Villa was in attendance as well, and in the audience > participation segment of the talk, Luis slipped this gem in. > > It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks think? Simple, focused. Very nice slogan. Maybe a bit more difficult to be translated than the current one ("Infinity. Freedom. Voice."). -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 5 16:33:56 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 22:03:56 +0530 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> <20071005144628.GA26504@jadzia.bu.edu> <20071005153639.GJ18215@jadzia.bu.edu> <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <47066774.8040301@fedoraproject.org> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, Matthew Miller wrote: > >> Maybe we could leave off the TM but include somewhere some >> lighthearted fine print about it being a trademark irony >> notwithstanding and we know that sounds silly but hey, gotta use the >> law to protect freedom too. I'm too tired to be really witty right now >> but maybe someone else can pick up from there. :) > > Maybe. > > Let me be honest about another motivation: my suspicions about the > general usefulness of "protecting the marks" of open source projects. > > I admire the Debian practice of having some marks that are fiercely > protected, and other marks that are completely open. The Debian swirl > is completely open; the Debian swirl atop the genie bottle is fiercely > protected. Which has allowed the open Debian mark to proliferate. > > I'd hoped to get this kind of agreement with Red Hat legal in regards to > the Fedora mark -- i.e. create an open Fedora mark that anyone could use > in any way they wished -- but was unsuccessful. The mascot is a way to accomplish that without a second logo IMO. Worth considering. Rahul From mrtom at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 5 16:40:22 2007 From: mrtom at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Canniot) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 18:40:22 +0200 Subject: Fedora-fr association was born ! In-Reply-To: <1191447132.3419.4.camel@F7NB.homenet.local> References: <20070929185614.4d2e81b7@localhost.localdomain> <1191093300.4642.8.camel@F7NB.homenet.local> <1191446745.15534.16.camel@wicktop.localdomain> <1191447132.3419.4.camel@F7NB.homenet.local> Message-ID: <20071005184022.7af47b85@localhost.localdomain> Le Wed, 03 Oct 2007 23:32:12 +0200, Gerold Kassube a ?crit : > Uuuups, yes Christoph, .... > > you're totally right. > We don't finalize any meeting minutes, me did a realy big mistake. > > So my apologies to the french association and hope all members can > accept also the President. > > Best wishes to this great success founding this wonderfull > association. > No problem Gerold, we are here to work together, not to fight :) Thomas From paulds at bu.edu Fri Oct 5 16:46:53 2007 From: paulds at bu.edu (Paul Stauffer) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 12:46:53 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <47066197.9070601@redhat.com> References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> <20071005144628.GA26504@jadzia.bu.edu> <20071005153639.GJ18215@jadzia.bu.edu> <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <47066197.9070601@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20071005164653.GA4494@jadzia.bu.edu> On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 12:08:55PM -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > while the slogan is a pretty nice statement of a defining quality of > fedora - omfg will the world end if someone else uses it? > > e.g., if $DISTRO starts using it AND actually backs it by you know, not > shipping patent-infringing codecs in their distro... well isn't that > what we WANT? you know, others to follow our lead? and, if they pick up > the slogan and continue to produce a not entirely free distro, well they > just look stupid then! :) I guess my initial comment regarding trademark was spurred by seeing the phrase used in conjunction with the logo in your mock-up, Mo. It looked really good. They looked like they *belonged* together. I instantly foresaw them being linked together in a myriad of contexts all over the Fedora multiverse. In such a scenario, where the slogan and the logo are closely linked, it felt natural that the phrase would be serving a very similar role to that of the logo itself, and thus they should be treated similarly. That was my leap in thinking. It doesn't necessarily need to be done that way. If we continue to use only the logo in a really trademarky way, and we just throw this phrase around as a marketing slogan wherever it feels like it fits, then I agree that it needn't be treated as a trademark any more than any other catch phrases we repeatedly say in our Fedora evangelism. But if we do end up using it closely linked with the logo, and we're using it as a mark of Fedora's identity, then yeah, I think it needs to be treated as such. For now, I think it's safe to set the issue a bit to the side, and wait and see how and if we actually end up using the thing. But we should maybe at least make a mental note of when we're using it in conjunction with identity marks such as the logo, and if it seems like we're doing that more often than not, I think it's something we should readdress. cheers, - Paul -- Paul Stauffer Manager of Research Computing Computer Science Department Boston University From hudsonman35 at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 16:49:46 2007 From: hudsonman35 at gmail.com (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 12:49:46 -0400 Subject: Public Awareness is vital to both XO and Fedora! Message-ID: Why I mentioned the XO laptop is that it is based on Fedora. For both projects to succeed in the future, they need more public awareness! Do you think free publicity would hurt or not? Mark McLaughlin - linuxglobe.wordpress.com From gdk at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 16:53:36 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 12:53:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <20071005164653.GA4494@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> <20071005144628.GA26504@jadzia.bu.edu> <20071005153639.GJ18215@jadzia.bu.edu> <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <47066197.9070601@redhat.com> <20071005164653.GA4494@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, Paul Stauffer wrote: > I guess my initial comment regarding trademark was spurred by seeing the > phrase used in conjunction with the logo in your mock-up, Mo. It looked > really good. They looked like they *belonged* together. I instantly > foresaw them being linked together in a myriad of contexts all over the > Fedora multiverse. In such a scenario, where the slogan and the logo are > closely linked, it felt natural that the phrase would be serving a very > similar role to that of the logo itself, and thus they should be treated > similarly. Hmm. This is a good point, actually. One of the nice things about trademark protection is that you can protect "elements grouped together in a certain way" without having to protect the individual elements themselves. But yes -- worth more thinking after we all agree that "Freedom is a Feature" is the right slogan. Which, evidently, we do. --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From omen at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 5 19:56:48 2007 From: omen at fedoraproject.org (Saadaldine AlSaidi) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 22:56:48 +0300 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <47066774.8040301@fedoraproject.org> References: <47066774.8040301@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200710052256.48725.omen@fedoraproject.org> Very Impressive but i think many better slogens were provided. Yet it is catshy in English and my mother language Arabic, but i don't know if it is going to be in other languages. --------------------------------------- Saadaldine AlSaidi. From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Fri Oct 5 16:58:13 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 18:58:13 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191601545.6163.6.camel@shuttle> References: <1191601545.6163.6.camel@shuttle> Message-ID: <47066D25.4010203@laposte.net> Dimitris Glezos a ?crit : > Simple, focused. Very nice slogan. > > Maybe a bit more difficult to be translated than the current one > ("Infinity. Freedom. Voice."). I was about to make this point too. I love "Freedom is a Feature" ? in English. But I haven't the faintest idea how to translate it in a satisfactory manner in my own language. The problem is that while "Freedom" is a well-established universal concept, "feature" is obscure CS-marketo?d speak. While some languages like English have reused nice pre-existing words for the "CS feature" concept, others use terribly contrived bureaucratic words, and I suspect some do not even have any local word for "feature". It's just not important enough for the vast majority of world's population to justify wording. It's 100% CS jargon speak. From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 5 16:59:04 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 18:59:04 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> On 10/5/07, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? > It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks think? Sounds good, but isn't primarily for fedora. Freedom is a Feature. Having lots of "F" does point to Fedora. But other linux distributions provide "freedom" too. The slogan of Fedora should be related to "what makes fedora so unique". The proposed slogan needs to be rephrased! perhaps: "New Features for your Freedom." regards, Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From gdk at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 17:04:13 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 13:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: So I'm starting to see a pattern. Native English speakers seem to *really* dig it. Non-native speakers seem more reserved. /me wonders if we need different slogans per language. Or even, give the local ambassadors the power to come up with their own Best Slogan. --g On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 10/5/07, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: >> >> What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? >> It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks think? > > Sounds good, but isn't primarily for fedora. > Freedom is a Feature. Having lots of "F" does point to Fedora. But > other linux distributions provide "freedom" too. > > The slogan of Fedora should be related to "what makes fedora so unique". > > The proposed slogan needs to be rephrased! > perhaps: "New Features for your Freedom." > > regards, > Chitlesh > -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From sankarshan.mukhopadhyay at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 17:05:56 2007 From: sankarshan.mukhopadhyay at gmail.com (Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 22:35:56 +0530 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47066EF4.5070106@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > Sounds good, but isn't primarily for fedora. But it just fits the SUCCES bits of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_to_Stick :) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHBm70XQZpNTcrCzMRAthrAJ9rtGZ/GN8CbUK8n8uevHWeybccKwCdHhND 9WJ8RJCuey/92NqoQ/NtgQY= =92t9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 5 17:10:37 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 19:10:37 +0200 Subject: Public Awareness is vital to both XO and Fedora! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0710051010y286f8f12r28760880dfdbabb4@mail.gmail.com> On 10/5/07, Markus McLaughlin wrote: > Do you think free publicity would hurt or not? IF DONE PROPERLY !!!!! > Mark McLaughlin - linuxglobe.wordpress.com In accordance to your blog post : http://linuxglobe.wordpress.com/2007/10/01/fedora-8-needs-to-add-features-like-ubuntu-710/ You referred "Fast User Switching" as a missing feature for F8! I'm sorry to say, but you need to update or delete your post as you are wrong. Fedora 7 (yes, F7) already have "Fast user switching". http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/FastUserSwitching http://samfw.blogspot.com/2007/03/fedora-7-fast-user-switching.html http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/06/01/fast-user-switching-applet-ubuntu-704/ """One feature in the new Fedora 7 desktop that was popular is that of fast user switching.""" Please bear in mind, Fedora is a cutting edge distribution where innovations start ! Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From kanarip at kanarip.com Fri Oct 5 17:33:26 2007 From: kanarip at kanarip.com (Jeroen van Meeuwen) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:33:26 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 10/5/07, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: >> What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? >> It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks think? > > Sounds good, but isn't primarily for fedora. > Freedom is a Feature. Having lots of "F" does point to Fedora. But > other linux distributions provide "freedom" too. > > The slogan of Fedora should be related to "what makes fedora so unique". > > The proposed slogan needs to be rephrased! > perhaps: "New Features for your Freedom." > > regards, > Chitlesh My gut feeling tells me I disagree although my brain admits I haven't been using too much other distros lately; what distro (non-Fedora based) exactly does offer Freedom as much or as strong as Fedora does? NOTE: This question doesn't need an actual answer; those who do use other distros a lot may want to let their gut feeling answer. Better yet, let's not have any brains involved in answering it. I think, the catchier the slogan the more people will appreciate it's actual meaning. My brain comes up with another variation: "Features Freedom", but my gut feeling already tells me I like the original better. - -- Kind regards, Jeroen van Meeuwen - -kanarip - -- http://www.kanarip.com/ RHCE, LPIC-2, MCP, CCNA C6B0 7FB4 43E6 CDDA D258 F70B 28DE 9FDA 9342 BF08 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHBnUpKN6f2pNCvwgRAk2tAJ9KPeCsfjnZ0lqxHTlbqkz3UxY2oQCeI2lh sINUjKvpEyVeM5wgge3/aKE= =/rSd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 5 17:59:05 2007 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 13:59:05 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1191607145.21092.3.camel@kennedy> On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 09:43 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? > > Max and I gave a Fedora talk at the Triangle Linux Users Group not too > long ago. Luis Villa was in attendance as well, and in the audience > participation segment of the talk, Luis slipped this gem in. > > It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks think? I like it. /B -- Brian Pepple http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BrianPepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From giacomo_succi at email.it Fri Oct 5 18:05:42 2007 From: giacomo_succi at email.it (Giacomo Succi) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 20:05:42 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> Message-ID: <47067CF6.1010707@email.it> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 For me... That slogan is really powerful. Point the finger on the major thing, regarding Fedora, before all the tech stuff, before the art, before everything is Fedora's philosophy core. But, for me, it'sn't right for a new slogan. It sounds too "technical". Feature is related to a piece of software, not to a philosophy. I don't know. It'sn't enough for me. The sentence it self is great, but for the general content... I don't know. It doesn't convince me too much. Sorry man :S. That is just a point of view :). Happy Fedoring^^! - -- Giacomo Succi - -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Contacts: eMail: giacomo_succi at email.it; AIM: Anandir82 Y!: anandir82; ICQ: 135781176 J: Anandir at jabber.org; MSN: anandir at email.it Skype: anandir82 GPG: 0x52CDCA27 GPG Server: pool.sks-keyservers.net - -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHBnz1Uda2pFLNyicRAgPLAJ4kS8j7gSggs2Yk1fThxV5nwLGAdACfXF9c wyIdCugZjDLBfCXpmp9mF3g= =4kTy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Vuoi un prestito fino a 30.000 Euro? Clicca qui per un preventivo immediato! Prometeo ti propone prestiti personali senza attese e senza spese. * Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=7083&d=5-10 From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 18:07:07 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 21:07:07 +0300 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0710051107h43c8332cw835cdd480974d386@mail.gmail.com> On 10/5/07, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > < snip > > > My brain comes up with another variation: "Features Freedom", but my gut > feeling already tells me I like the original better. > "Freedom is a feature" has the emotional impact a good slogan requires. More words can be added as needed, such as "Freedom is a feature, not a bug" "Freedom is a feature, not an option" "Freedom is a feature worth preserving" But the slogan remains..."Freedom is a feature" +1 My 2 cents... John Babich Fedora Volunteer and Ambassador From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 5 18:16:15 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 20:16:15 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0710051116l37c74e63wbd69c3910bd46ea7@mail.gmail.com> On 10/5/07, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote: > My gut feeling tells me I disagree although my brain admits I haven't > been using too much other distros lately; what distro (non-Fedora based) > exactly does offer Freedom as much or as strong as Fedora does? I would rather prefer a slogan(for fedora) which values Fedora Contributors(RH and community) and not contributors of other distros. Many fedora contributors spend about 4 hours per day for fedora, at least it's my case. Having a slogan which values freedom that other distributions provide, does NOT praise the fedora community, but rather the "linux community" ! Many fedora technologies are poorly advertised and yet the proposed slogan doesn't praise fedora, but free software. Fedora isn't just about "free software", but a wonderful (the best and professional) + active community that does more than "assembling free packages". The Fedora Project is something really special, it is even the engine of the linux community. The Fedora Project has many special contributors and develops anything for anyone. Fedora is not a kiddy-type distribution but provides quality applications/OS. Example 1: Aren't you proud of Fedora Artwork in each release ? Every time there's something new and every time one will see posts on planet.fedoraproject.org praising Fedora Artwork. Which other distributions have a better artwork community than Fedora's ? There isn't. There are many Fedora SIGs which have done wonderful work. Example 2: In the past, people cursed fedora for X,Y and Z reasons. Fedora has already fixed and improved X, Y and Z. But still people are pointing to the X,Y and Z. Aren't you sick about it ? Example 3: someone: Hai, have you seen X has new features (P,Q,R and S) that no other distribution has? Me: Fedora has P, Q, R and S since at least 6 months now, perhaps even since a year ago. Didn't you come across this before ? example of example 3: http://linuxglobe.wordpress.com/2007/10/01/fedora-8-needs-to-add-features-like-ubuntu-710/ Well that my thoughts. I'll advise not to jump and choose any slogan. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From kwade at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 19:35:42 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 12:35:42 -0700 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1191612942.3465.190.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 09:43 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? What's funny is, just the other day, I came up with two in the middle of writing something: "Fedora means freedom" and "Fedora is freedom." Anyway, similar sentiment but a different kind of depth. I like this one, too. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 19:43:00 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 12:43:00 -0700 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <47066D25.4010203@laposte.net> References: <1191601545.6163.6.camel@shuttle> <47066D25.4010203@laposte.net> Message-ID: <1191613380.3465.195.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 18:58 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > While some languages like English have reused nice pre-existing words > for the "CS feature" concept, others use terribly contrived bureaucratic > words, and I suspect some do not even have any local word for "feature". > It's just not important enough for the vast majority of world's > population to justify wording. It's 100% CS jargon speak. Not really ... the word 'feature' used in this way is pretty old. "A feature of Arts & Crafts bungalows is the large front porch with wide supporting columns." "A feature of your face is your nose." Thus, the term is used to describe a thing that comes as part of a complete set (house, face) and adds some unique characteristic (porch and columns, nose). Perhaps there is a word or term that is more similar to that meaning? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Fri Oct 5 19:56:34 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 21:56:34 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191613380.3465.195.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1191601545.6163.6.camel@shuttle> <47066D25.4010203@laposte.net> <1191613380.3465.195.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <470696F2.4040609@laposte.net> Karsten Wade a ?crit : > On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 18:58 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > >> While some languages like English have reused nice pre-existing words >> for the "CS feature" concept, others use terribly contrived bureaucratic >> words, and I suspect some do not even have any local word for "feature". >> It's just not important enough for the vast majority of world's >> population to justify wording. It's 100% CS jargon speak. > > Not really ... the word 'feature' used in this way is pretty old. You're describing how English speakers chose to apply a general word for to a very specific context. You could replace feature with element, property or part in your examples. You can not replace it in the proposed slogan. Because feature in the slogan has a very specific CS jargon meaning, and this specific meaning does not translate well. -- Nicolas Mailhot From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Fri Oct 5 19:57:52 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 21:57:52 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191612942.3465.190.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1191612942.3465.190.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <47069740.1050708@laposte.net> Karsten Wade a ?crit : > On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 09:43 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: >> What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? > > What's funny is, just the other day, I came up with two in the middle of > writing something: "Fedora means freedom" and "Fedora is freedom." > Anyway, similar sentiment but a different kind of depth. > > I like this one, too. :) Yours are better ? jargon-free and translatable -- Nicolas Mailhot From kwade at redhat.com Fri Oct 5 20:06:39 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 13:06:39 -0700 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <470696F2.4040609@laposte.net> References: <1191601545.6163.6.camel@shuttle> <47066D25.4010203@laposte.net> <1191613380.3465.195.camel@erato.phig.org> <470696F2.4040609@laposte.net> Message-ID: <1191614799.3465.204.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 21:56 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Karsten Wade a ?crit : > > On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 18:58 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > > >> While some languages like English have reused nice pre-existing words > >> for the "CS feature" concept, others use terribly contrived bureaucratic > >> words, and I suspect some do not even have any local word for "feature". > >> It's just not important enough for the vast majority of world's > >> population to justify wording. It's 100% CS jargon speak. > > > > Not really ... the word 'feature' used in this way is pretty old. > > You're describing how English speakers chose to apply a general word for > to a very specific context. You could replace feature with element, > property or part in your examples. You can not replace it in the > proposed slogan. Because feature in the slogan has a very specific CS > jargon meaning, and this specific meaning does not translate well. I just figured that since the CS-specific meaning is derived directly from the general meaning, then using the general meaning to find a word would work. It doesn't have to be alliterative or as short. But there may be a subtlety here with localization that I don't understand? If you said to me, "Freedom is a feature of our school," I would understand that meaning without knowing the CS-specific context. Why wouldn't that apply to the usage in Fedora? In other words, knowing the CS-specific meaning adds depth to the understanding of the slogan, but not knowing the CS-specific meaning doesn't detract from the slogan. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From paulds at bu.edu Fri Oct 5 20:13:20 2007 From: paulds at bu.edu (Paul Stauffer) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 16:13:20 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071005201320.GF15060@jadzia.bu.edu> On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 01:04:13PM -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > /me wonders if we need different slogans per language. Or even, give the > local ambassadors the power to come up with their own Best Slogan. Fedora certainly wouldn't be the first brand to vary its identifying marks and/or phrases for different regions of the world. Perhaps the English phrase will be "Freedom is a Feature", and perhaps other languages will opt for variations such as "Fedora means Freedom", or whatever seems to work best in that particular language and cultural context. The local ambassadors can lead the way here. cheers, - Paul -- Paul Stauffer Manager of Research Computing Computer Science Department Boston University From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 20:20:02 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 23:20:02 +0300 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191614799.3465.204.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1191601545.6163.6.camel@shuttle> <47066D25.4010203@laposte.net> <1191613380.3465.195.camel@erato.phig.org> <470696F2.4040609@laposte.net> <1191614799.3465.204.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0710051320l27dcf9c1m2b217365d5644186@mail.gmail.com> On 10/5/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > If you said to me, "Freedom is a feature of our school," I would > understand that meaning without knowing the CS-specific context. Why > wouldn't that apply to the usage in Fedora? > > In other words, knowing the CS-specific meaning adds depth to the > understanding of the slogan, but not knowing the CS-specific meaning > doesn't detract from the slogan. Likewise, a variant on "freedom is a feature" is "Freedom is a feature, not a bug". If that is hard to translate due to CS jargon, then it can be expressed (in English) as "Freedom is a feature, not a flaw", which, I believe, conveys pretty much the same meaning with nice alliteration. What is lost is the play on words from the common jargon saying, "It's a feature, not a bug". The point is that "Freedom is a feature" is a good slogan in that it translates well and provides fertile ground for further elaboration. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Fri Oct 5 20:30:33 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 22:30:33 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191614799.3465.204.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1191601545.6163.6.camel@shuttle> <47066D25.4010203@laposte.net> <1191613380.3465.195.camel@erato.phig.org> <470696F2.4040609@laposte.net> <1191614799.3465.204.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <47069EE9.701@laposte.net> Karsten Wade a ?crit : > If you said to me, "Freedom is a feature of our school," I would > understand that meaning without knowing the CS-specific context. Why > wouldn't that apply to the usage in Fedora? Because feature as a general concept of "element", "part", "characteristic" exists everywhere. In English this very general concept has acquired a positive undertone. Not just characteristic but "desirable characteristic". In CS English because all the vendors and reviewers are unable to compare products on quality but only fill features matrixes feature has become "very desirable characteristic we use to judge software exclusively" So Freedom is a feature means "We consider freedom is one of those very desirable characteristics we use to judge software exclusively" (see how awkward it is when written explicitely?) While a short translation in a language without CS english positive undertones will only go "Freedom is a characteristic" In "Freedom is a feature of our school," people can infer from the context feature is positive, even in other languages. Because Freedom=good-for-school is generally accepted. In Fedora. Freedom is a feature you've got little context to decide whether it's a good or bad feature. -- Nicolas Mailhot From omen at fedoraproject.org Sat Oct 6 00:05:50 2007 From: omen at fedoraproject.org (Saadaldine AlSaidi) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 03:05:50 +0300 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> I guess Freedom in fedora is not just a feature its the core and putting it as a feature really reduce the whole idea. maybe we can say "Fedora: Freedom is the essence" or "Fedora: where Freedom is the essence" From simon at simline.de Fri Oct 5 21:22:32 2007 From: simon at simline.de (JoergSimon) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 23:22:32 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0710051320l27dcf9c1m2b217365d5644186@mail.gmail.com> References: <1191614799.3465.204.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0710051320l27dcf9c1m2b217365d5644186@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200710052322.37394.simon@simline.de> Am Freitag, 5. Oktober 2007 22:20:02 schrieb John Babich: > On 10/5/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > > "Freedom is a feature, not a bug". boring > The point is that "Freedom is a feature" is a good slogan in that it > translates well and provides fertile ground for further elaboration. From my German point - my feelings are divided about this slogan, easy to consume yes - because you will not think about it - it sounds like all of the slogans "freedom inside", "Fedora, the better way of live", "Freedom is a feature"... boring. For me, "what Fedora is" is not enough transported - as a alternative on a poster or a shirt yes this would be a nice idea. But for me the "infinity voice freedom" slogan is the better one. Cheers Joerg -- J?rg Simon jsimon at fedoraproject.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon Key Fingerprint: 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From cnegus at rucls.net Fri Oct 5 22:14:27 2007 From: cnegus at rucls.net (Chris Negus) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 17:14:27 -0500 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> <20071005144628.GA26504@jadzia.bu.edu> <470658C1.3060202@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1191622467.2641.63.camel@einstein> On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 11:37 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, Nicu Buculei wrote: > > What we should to to "protect": when we go live with the slogan for the first > > time we should do *a lot* of noise about it, not just put quietly a new > > banner on the site. > > Yep. I agree 100%. I like the slogan very much. If you could decide very soon to use this slogan, I could mention it on the back cover of the Fedora 8 Bible. But it's getting late to make a splash with the slogan in print media by the Fedora 8 release if you wait much longer. -- Chris Negus From giacomo_succi at email.it Fri Oct 5 23:04:59 2007 From: giacomo_succi at email.it (Giacomo Succi) Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 01:04:59 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <200710052322.37394.simon@simline.de> References: <1191614799.3465.204.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0710051320l27dcf9c1m2b217365d5644186@mail.gmail.com> <200710052322.37394.simon@simline.de> Message-ID: <4706C31B.5070702@email.it> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I totally agree with you. > From my German point - my feelings are divided about this slogan, > easy to consume yes - because you will not think about it - it > sounds like all of the slogans "freedom inside", "Fedora, the > better way of live", "Freedom is a feature"... boring. For me, > "what Fedora is" is not enough transported - as a alternative on a > poster or a shirt yes this would be a nice idea. But for me the > "infinity voice freedom" slogan is the better one Cheers Joerg Happy Fedoring^^! - -- Giacomo Succi - -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Contacts: eMail: giacomo_succi at email.it; AIM: Anandir82 Y!: anandir82; ICQ: 135781176 J: Anandir at jabber.org; MSN: anandir at email.it Skype: anandir82 GPG: 0x52CDCA27 GPG Server: pool.sks-keyservers.net - -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHBsMaUda2pFLNyicRAjXMAJ97LgHMnL6oil04FGcMhooozuId6wCguR77 Jzsm6XqF2G2fiURvV7cA7Do= =eUMH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: La soluzione per vendere o coprare qualcosa, la trovi su Email.it Annunci! Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=6892&d=6-10 From hudsonman35 at gmail.com Sat Oct 6 03:15:40 2007 From: hudsonman35 at gmail.com (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 23:15:40 -0400 Subject: Thanks Chitlesh for the "Heads Up!" Message-ID: Chitlesh, thank you for your constructive criticism, but, please post them on my blog, that would be more helpful. I revised that entry and posted features that neither Fedora nor Ubuntu offer. I hope I was right, if not, post your comments on my blog, thanks! In the meantime, I am looking forward to test out F 8 Test 3 on my Mac, and I am learning about openSUSE 10.3, I hope I can find someone willing to review it. Although Fedora is my main OS, other distributions need to be reviewed so those new to Linux can choose wisely! Happy Columbus Day! Mark McLaughlin - linuxglobe.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mattdm at mattdm.org Sat Oct 6 04:27:09 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 00:27:09 -0400 Subject: Freedom is *just* a Feature? In-Reply-To: <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> References: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20071006042709.GA24182@jadzia.bu.edu> On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 03:05:50AM +0300, Saadaldine AlSaidi wrote: > I guess Freedom in fedora is not just a feature its the core and putting > it as a feature really reduce the whole idea. maybe we can say "Fedora: > Freedom is the essence" or "Fedora: where Freedom is the essence" This is a very legitimate point. A feature is something prominent but not necessarily eanything vital. Consider: Fedora 8 Feature List Online Desktop Bluetooth Build ID Codec Buddy Eclipse33 Electronic Lab Freedom Generic Logos IcedTea Nepali Language Support Nodoka Theme PAM Console (remove it) Policy Kit Pulse Audio rsyslog Tickless Kernel Transifex Virt Security Wakeups (fix them) XFS (no more) There's a risk of "Freedom: It's In There With The Other Bells And Whistles." Or worse, "Freedom: A Feature Sort Of Like SELinux, Which Everybody Turns Off When It Comes Time To Do Anything Useful." But "Freedom is the Essence" doesn't have the same resonance. And "Freedom: Not Just a Feature!" takes too much thinking to be a good slogan. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From duffy at redhat.com Sat Oct 6 04:34:41 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 00:34:41 -0400 Subject: Freedom is *just* a Feature? In-Reply-To: <20071006042709.GA24182@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> <20071006042709.GA24182@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <47071061.8050707@redhat.com> Matthew Miller wrote: > On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 03:05:50AM +0300, Saadaldine AlSaidi wrote: >> I guess Freedom in fedora is not just a feature its the core and putting >> it as a feature really reduce the whole idea. maybe we can say "Fedora: >> Freedom is the essence" or "Fedora: where Freedom is the essence" > > This is a very legitimate point. A feature is something prominent but not > necessarily eanything vital. While I see where you could interpret the phrase that way, I was thinking it was more: "Freedom is feature of Fedora. It's not a feature in all other distros. It's what makes us different." Was there any argument against Karsten's variation of: "Fedora is freedom" ? ~m From mattdm at mattdm.org Sat Oct 6 04:56:43 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 00:56:43 -0400 Subject: Freedom is *just* a Feature? In-Reply-To: <47071061.8050707@redhat.com> References: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> <20071006042709.GA24182@jadzia.bu.edu> <47071061.8050707@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20071006045643.GA25850@jadzia.bu.edu> On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 12:34:41AM -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Was there any argument against Karsten's variation of: > "Fedora is freedom" ? I think the original has such an immediate positive reaction for readers of this list -- and I think for most of Fedora's core market, as well -- precisely because we hear it in the sense of computer jargon. It's the perfect response to people who think giving up that freedom will somehow make Fedora better. On the other hand, "_____ is freedom" is too generic -- it's so overused as to be meaningless. The Jeep Grand Cherokee is freedom. Nike is freedom. British Telecom is freedom. A handgun is freedom. Medication is freedom. Rock and roll is freedom. Truth is freedom. Education is freedom. Feminine hygine products are freedom. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From duffy at redhat.com Sat Oct 6 05:05:02 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 01:05:02 -0400 Subject: Freedom is *just* a Feature? In-Reply-To: <20071006045643.GA25850@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> <20071006042709.GA24182@jadzia.bu.edu> <47071061.8050707@redhat.com> <20071006045643.GA25850@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <4707177E.4030004@redhat.com> Matthew Miller wrote: > On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 12:34:41AM -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: >> Was there any argument against Karsten's variation of: >> "Fedora is freedom" ? > > I think the original has such an immediate positive reaction for readers of > this list -- and I think for most of Fedora's core market, as well -- > precisely because we hear it in the sense of computer jargon. It's the > perfect response to people who think giving up that freedom will somehow > make Fedora better. I don't really see the word "feature" as computer jargon. People's faces have features. My stove, refrigerator, and dishwasher have features. My car has features. Movies have featured actors and actresses, and the main show is considered the 'feature'. Is it just a translation issue? ~m From tw2113 at gmail.com Sat Oct 6 05:16:47 2007 From: tw2113 at gmail.com (Michael Beckwith) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 00:16:47 -0500 Subject: Freedom is *just* a Feature? In-Reply-To: <4707177E.4030004@redhat.com> References: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> <20071006042709.GA24182@jadzia.bu.edu> <47071061.8050707@redhat.com> <20071006045643.GA25850@jadzia.bu.edu> <4707177E.4030004@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9b437e950710052216o221a54dauae5358467fc409b9@mail.gmail.com> Personally, i find such a debate to be a good thing overall. We get down to the core of the issue. I think I support the "Freedom is a Feature" slogan but there are also some good arguments against it/ On 10/6/07, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 12:34:41AM -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > >> Was there any argument against Karsten's variation of: > >> "Fedora is freedom" ? > > > > I think the original has such an immediate positive reaction for readers > of > > this list -- and I think for most of Fedora's core market, as well -- > > precisely because we hear it in the sense of computer jargon. It's the > > perfect response to people who think giving up that freedom will somehow > > make Fedora better. > > I don't really see the word "feature" as computer jargon. > > People's faces have features. My stove, refrigerator, and dishwasher > have features. My car has features. Movies have featured actors and > actresses, and the main show is considered the 'feature'. > > Is it just a translation issue? > > ~m > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- ~Michael http://ridleytx.structed.net (for now) http://www.michaelbox.net (eventually) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Sat Oct 6 08:54:42 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 09:54:42 +0100 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <200710052322.37394.simon@simline.de> References: <1191614799.3465.204.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0710051320l27dcf9c1m2b217365d5644186@mail.gmail.com> <200710052322.37394.simon@simline.de> Message-ID: <1191660882.3300.16.camel@shuttle> ???? 05-10-2007, ????? ???, ??? ??? 23:22 +0200, ?/? JoergSimon ??????: > For me, "what Fedora is" is not enough transported - as a alternative on a > poster or a shirt yes this would be a nice idea. But for me the "infinity > voice freedom" slogan is the better one. > Cheers Joerg FWIW, I noticed that when I talk about Fedora and answer the oh-so-often Q "Why should I install Fedora and not X or Y?" my first three points are about a) the amount of work being done and the potential we have in 1, 5, 10 years time, b) the obsession with freedom, and c) the openness: open discussions, democratic leadership and upstream mantra. Which, come to think of it, are pretty good match to the "infinity, freedom, voice" slogan. So, at least in my mind, these 3 words purely identify Fedora from all other distributions. "Freedom is a feature" is cool and maybe more impressive and memorable, so we could use it as well in marketing. I believe though we should really promote the current one *much* more than we currently do because it captures what and why we are right to the bone. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sat Oct 6 09:28:23 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:28:23 +0200 Subject: Freedom is *just* a Feature? In-Reply-To: <20071006045643.GA25850@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> <20071006042709.GA24182@jadzia.bu.edu> <47071061.8050707@redhat.com> <20071006045643.GA25850@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <47075537.7000708@laposte.net> Matthew Miller a ?crit : > On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 12:34:41AM -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: >> Was there any argument against Karsten's variation of: >> "Fedora is freedom" ? > > I think the original has such an immediate positive reaction for readers of > this list Right -- and I think for most of Fedora's core market, as well -- Wrong > precisely because we hear it in the sense of computer jargon. You've nailed it, this is a slogan for english computer jargon speakers. In other words a slogan for hardcore technophiles. I don't think we want to restrict our audience to hardcore technophiles (at least one of our major derivatives, OLPC, doesn't) -- Nicolas Mailhot From mattdm at mattdm.org Sat Oct 6 13:02:43 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 09:02:43 -0400 Subject: Freedom is *just* a Feature? In-Reply-To: <4707177E.4030004@redhat.com> References: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> <20071006042709.GA24182@jadzia.bu.edu> <47071061.8050707@redhat.com> <20071006045643.GA25850@jadzia.bu.edu> <4707177E.4030004@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20071006130243.GA4112@jadzia.bu.edu> On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 01:05:02AM -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > I don't really see the word "feature" as computer jargon. > People's faces have features. My stove, refrigerator, and dishwasher > have features. My car has features. Movies have featured actors and > actresses, and the main show is considered the 'feature'. > Is it just a translation issue? It's certainly *also* a non-jargon word, but it also has additional layers of meaning for software. For example, from ESR's Jargon File: There's a related joke that is sometimes referred to as the "one-question geek test". You say to someone "I saw a Volkswagen Beetle today with a vanity license plate that read FEATURE". If he/she laughs, he/she is a geek. The fact that this makes for a "test" is an indication that there is some special meaning. And I think it's particularly that special meaning in the slogan that's resonating with people. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From mattdm at mattdm.org Sat Oct 6 13:06:37 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 09:06:37 -0400 Subject: Freedom is *just* a Feature? In-Reply-To: <47075537.7000708@laposte.net> References: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> <20071006042709.GA24182@jadzia.bu.edu> <47071061.8050707@redhat.com> <20071006045643.GA25850@jadzia.bu.edu> <47075537.7000708@laposte.net> Message-ID: <20071006130637.GB4112@jadzia.bu.edu> On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 11:28:23AM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Right > -- and I think for most of Fedora's core market, as well -- > Wrong Note not *total* market. > >precisely because we hear it in the sense of computer jargon. > You've nailed it, this is a slogan for english computer jargon speakers. > In other words a slogan for hardcore technophiles. I don't think we want > to restrict our audience to hardcore technophiles (at least one of our > major derivatives, OLPC, doesn't) The English-language/translation thing is a bit troubling. But I'm pretty comfortable with saying that Fedora's *core* market is technophiles. If we want it to be something else, we need to change some of Fedora's key design decisions -- particularly, the upgrade-yearly lifespan. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From jkeating at j2solutions.net Sat Oct 6 14:34:52 2007 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (jkeating) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 10:34:52 -0400 Subject: Freedom is *just* a Feature? In-Reply-To: <47075537.7000708@laposte.net> References: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> <20071006042709.GA24182@jadzia.bu.edu> <47071061.8050707@redhat.com> <20071006045643.GA25850@jadzia.bu.edu> <47075537.7000708@laposte.net> Message-ID: <20071006103452.09650efb@j2solutions.net> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:28:23 +0200 Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > You've nailed it, this is a slogan for english computer jargon > speakers. In other words a slogan for hardcore technophiles. I don't > think we want to restrict our audience to hardcore technophiles (at > least one of our major derivatives, OLPC, doesn't) I think it's going to be nearly impossible to come up with one slogan that works across the world and isn't so completely generalized and/or incomprehensible (make up your own words) to make any kind of impact to anybody in any language. So again I ask, what is so terrible if English printed stuff uses 'Freedom is a Feature' and things printed in other languages use a slogan that is suitable for that language? I would hope and expect that the English speaking constituents wouldn't block a slogan in another language just because it may translate poorly to English, so I expect the return. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jeremy.hogan at gmail.com Sat Oct 6 17:13:15 2007 From: jeremy.hogan at gmail.com (Jeremy Hogan) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:13:15 -0400 Subject: Freedom is *just* a Feature? In-Reply-To: <20071006103452.09650efb@j2solutions.net> References: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> <20071006042709.GA24182@jadzia.bu.edu> <47071061.8050707@redhat.com> <20071006045643.GA25850@jadzia.bu.edu> <47075537.7000708@laposte.net> <20071006103452.09650efb@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <556f970a0710061013j41d606c5y7612233d083346e5@mail.gmail.com> Interesting point. I didn't read it as "just a" feature. I read it more like "Fedora, Featuring Freedom", like freedom was being featured or highlighted as a special ingredient. I think it may suffer the nuances of English, but that may only mean having a different wording with the same sentiment in other languages. --jeremy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kamisamanou at kamisamanou.net Sat Oct 6 18:50:19 2007 From: kamisamanou at kamisamanou.net (Kamisamanou Burgess) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:50:19 -0500 Subject: Freedom is *just* a Feature? In-Reply-To: <556f970a0710061013j41d606c5y7612233d083346e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> <20071006042709.GA24182@jadzia.bu.edu> <47071061.8050707@redhat.com> <20071006045643.GA25850@jadzia.bu.edu> <47075537.7000708@laposte.net> <20071006103452.09650efb@j2solutions.net> <556f970a0710061013j41d606c5y7612233d083346e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5dbb83710710061150v76bda8aclcb7e509c74a0c0c@mail.gmail.com> I personally consider "Feature" and "Freedom" in the same sentence to be extremely corny. I'd also say I find it a large understatement. The entire focus of the Fedora Project is Freedom, and to call that a feature just isn't right. -- Sayonara, Kamisamanou Burgess http://www.kamisamanou.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tw2113 at gmail.com Sat Oct 6 18:58:15 2007 From: tw2113 at gmail.com (Michael Beckwith) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:58:15 -0500 Subject: Freedom is *just* a Feature? In-Reply-To: <5dbb83710710061150v76bda8aclcb7e509c74a0c0c@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> <20071006042709.GA24182@jadzia.bu.edu> <47071061.8050707@redhat.com> <20071006045643.GA25850@jadzia.bu.edu> <47075537.7000708@laposte.net> <20071006103452.09650efb@j2solutions.net> <556f970a0710061013j41d606c5y7612233d083346e5@mail.gmail.com> <5dbb83710710061150v76bda8aclcb7e509c74a0c0c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9b437e950710061158o6c49387dlff88793e14ec0688@mail.gmail.com> How about "Freedom is our Focus" On 10/6/07, Kamisamanou Burgess wrote: > > I personally consider "Feature" and "Freedom" in the same sentence to be > extremely corny. I'd also say I find it a large understatement. The entire > focus of the Fedora Project is Freedom, and to call that a feature just > isn't right. > > -- > Sayonara, > Kamisamanou Burgess > http://www.kamisamanou.net > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- ~Michael http://ridleytx.structed.net (for now) http://www.michaelbox.net (eventually) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sat Oct 6 19:11:19 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 21:11:19 +0200 Subject: Freedom is *just* a Feature? In-Reply-To: <9b437e950710061158o6c49387dlff88793e14ec0688@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> <20071006042709.GA24182@jadzia.bu.edu> <47071061.8050707@redhat.com> <20071006045643.GA25850@jadzia.bu.edu> <47075537.7000708@laposte.net> <20071006103452.09650efb@j2solutions.net> <556f970a0710061013j41d606c5y7612233d083346e5@mail.gmail.com> <5dbb83710710061150v76bda8aclcb7e509c74a0c0c@mail.gmail.com> <9b437e950710061158o6c49387dlff88793e14ec0688@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4707DDD7.8090906@laposte.net> Oh, hell since everyone is giving his slogans. Mine are Exploring freedom together or Building freedom together So now you can tell me they're bad too ;) -- Nicolas Mailhot From kamisamanou at kamisamanou.net Sat Oct 6 19:18:01 2007 From: kamisamanou at kamisamanou.net (Kamisamanou Burgess) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 14:18:01 -0500 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191660882.3300.16.camel@shuttle> References: <1191614799.3465.204.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0710051320l27dcf9c1m2b217365d5644186@mail.gmail.com> <200710052322.37394.simon@simline.de> <1191660882.3300.16.camel@shuttle> Message-ID: <5dbb83710710061218p1a2f03a9i3c657c58b69cee86@mail.gmail.com> I think the current slogan Infintity. Freedom. Voice has a more powerful impact. However, I would think that Freedom should be first in the list. -- Sayonara, Kamisamanou Burgess http://www.kamisamanou.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alejolucas at gmail.com Sat Oct 6 23:47:46 2007 From: alejolucas at gmail.com (Alejo Cerrat0) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 19:47:46 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature Message-ID: <3032ee5e0710061647l1aa77850oae096a5baf87472e@mail.gmail.com> Hi, i've been following the discussion, and I'd like to add variations of the slogan to be considered: Fedora: Freedom Capable Freedom: Not just another feature Fedora: Freedom Integrated Fedora: Freedom of Choice (this one's a repeat) I don't think the word 'feature' is only associated with computer jargon, but it is indeed its stronger association. It's been also incorporated to, at least in Argentina, where I come from, to everyday Spanish because of a lack of an accurate 1 word translation. AlejoCerrato. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mattdm at mattdm.org Sun Oct 7 00:40:53 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 20:40:53 -0400 Subject: Freedom is *just* a Feature? In-Reply-To: <20071006103452.09650efb@j2solutions.net> References: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> <20071006042709.GA24182@jadzia.bu.edu> <47071061.8050707@redhat.com> <20071006045643.GA25850@jadzia.bu.edu> <47075537.7000708@laposte.net> <20071006103452.09650efb@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <20071007004053.GA20544@jadzia.bu.edu> On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 10:34:52AM -0400, jkeating wrote: > So again I ask, what is so terrible if English printed stuff uses > 'Freedom is a Feature' and things printed in other languages use a > slogan that is suitable for that language? I would hope and expect And actually, it doesn't translate badly into other languages, or badly into non-jargon English. It just loses the kick. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From mattdm at mattdm.org Sun Oct 7 00:41:55 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 20:41:55 -0400 Subject: Freedom is *just* a Feature? In-Reply-To: <556f970a0710061013j41d606c5y7612233d083346e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071005155801.GA718@jadzia.bu.edu> <200710060305.50699.omen@fedoraproject.org> <20071006042709.GA24182@jadzia.bu.edu> <47071061.8050707@redhat.com> <20071006045643.GA25850@jadzia.bu.edu> <47075537.7000708@laposte.net> <20071006103452.09650efb@j2solutions.net> <556f970a0710061013j41d606c5y7612233d083346e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071007004155.GB20544@jadzia.bu.edu> On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 01:13:15PM -0400, Jeremy Hogan wrote: > Interesting point. I didn't read it as "just a" feature. I read it more like > "Fedora, Featuring Freedom", like freedom was being featured or highlighted > as a special ingredient. I think it may suffer the nuances of English, but > that may only mean having a different wording with the same sentiment in > other languages. One implication is: Featuring freedom today, featuring something else tomorrow. Like a feature at the movies. :) -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From mohd.izhar.firdaus at gmail.com Sun Oct 7 04:28:54 2007 From: mohd.izhar.firdaus at gmail.com (Mohd Izhar Firdaus Ismail) Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 12:28:54 +0800 Subject: http://speakupmodified.org/ ... trademark infringement?? Message-ID: I found this website when browsing around the web .. IANAL, but ain't the trademark regulation does not allow this?? --- Welcome to the Speakup Modified Fedora Distribution Home Page. The Speakup Modified Fedora Distribution's edition of F-7, "Moonshine," is now available. [..] The Speakup Modified Fedora Distribution is a distribution of GNU/Linux enhanced with Speakup: The world's leading Linux screen reader. Because equal access to all system functions is a blind computer user's right, from bootup to shutdown! --- -- Mohd Izhar Firdaus Bin Ismail Amano Hikaru ??? ???? ???? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MohdIzharFirdaus http://blog.kagesenshi.org 92C2 B295 B40B B3DC 6866 5011 5BD2 584A 8A5D 7331 From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Sun Oct 7 04:24:06 2007 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 00:24:06 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature In-Reply-To: <3032ee5e0710061647l1aa77850oae096a5baf87472e@mail.gmail.com> References: <3032ee5e0710061647l1aa77850oae096a5baf87472e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47085F66.80202@prodigy.net.mx> Alejo Cerrat0 escribi?: > Hi, > > i've been following the discussion, and I'd like to add variations of > the slogan to be considered: > > Fedora: Freedom Capable > > Freedom: Not just another feature > > Fedora: Freedom Integrated > > Fedora: Freedom of Choice (this one's a repeat) > > I don't think the word 'feature' is only associated with computer > jargon, but it is indeed its stronger association. > It's been also incorporated to, at least in Argentina, where I come > from, to everyday Spanish because of a lack of an accurate 1 word > translation. > > AlejoCerrato. I thought of a few additions myself to the slogan, but mainly thought in Spanish, so the *literal* translation I've made may sound a bit odd, but I hope to make things relatively clear... "Fedora: Incluye Libertad" Would (roughly) translate into: "Fedora: Liberty included" Now, I *chose* __Liberty__ instead of "freedom" given the ambiguous meaning of "free" in colloquial English. Alas even though "freedom" as such is reasonably enough "universally understood" as a synonym of liberty (or so is my [limited] understanding of the English language), I do believe that the Freedom in Fedora and Free and Open Source software is actually "liberty" (non-ambiguous with gratis or free of [monetary] cost). In Spanish there is no way to confuse "libre" with "free" (of cost) unless directly stated (libre de costo)... I'm aware that it may sound odd, but in the end I believe it does reflect what Fedora stands for, unambiguously. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 7 05:33:22 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 11:03:22 +0530 Subject: http://speakupmodified.org/ ... trademark infringement?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47086FA2.4050309@fedoraproject.org> Mohd Izhar Firdaus Ismail wrote: > I found this website when browsing around the web .. IANAL, but ain't > the trademark regulation does not allow this?? > > --- > Welcome to the Speakup Modified Fedora Distribution Home Page. > > The Speakup Modified Fedora Distribution's edition of F-7, > "Moonshine," is now available. Maybe. I have forwarded this to legal. For future reference any legal issues are better handled in private via legal contact or fedora-legal list for public discussions http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/#head-0b0b195eb30d8a6372d297de86a8f14c588b9c2d Rahul From mattdm at mattdm.org Sun Oct 7 11:36:10 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 07:36:10 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature In-Reply-To: <47085F66.80202@prodigy.net.mx> References: <3032ee5e0710061647l1aa77850oae096a5baf87472e@mail.gmail.com> <47085F66.80202@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <20071007113610.GA12109@jadzia.bu.edu> On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 12:24:06AM -0400, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > liberty (or so is my [limited] understanding of the English language), I > do believe that the Freedom in Fedora and Free and Open Source software > is actually "liberty" (non-ambiguous with gratis or free of [monetary] > cost). In Spanish there is no way to confuse "libre" with "free" (of In English, "freedom" alwys applies to the liberty-related senses of the word, not to cost-free. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Sun Oct 7 16:09:25 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:09:25 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <200710052322.37394.simon@simline.de> References: <1191614799.3465.204.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0710051320l27dcf9c1m2b217365d5644186@mail.gmail.com> <200710052322.37394.simon@simline.de> Message-ID: <1191773365.4831.29.camel@Ulises> El vie, 05-10-2007 a las 23:22 +0200, JoergSimon escribi?: > Am Freitag, 5. Oktober 2007 22:20:02 schrieb John Babich: > > On 10/5/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > > "Freedom is a feature, not a bug". > > boring > I agree. It seems intended for tech people. However, potential new tech users never would be attracted by something like that. > > The point is that "Freedom is a feature" is a good slogan in that it > > translates well and provides fertile ground for further elaboration. I've a brief theory/thought that can be applied to non-native English speakers, for me own experience. Maybe that explain why somebody said before that "Freedom is a feature" seems too long.. That (ugly in my opinion..) slogan, in my mother tongue (Spanish) would be literally "La libertad es una caracter?stica". Conclusion: in Spanish (in this case), that's not an slogan. Nobody here could imagine that as an slogan, ..believe me. Where's problem then? I think our brain tends immediately to translate (with or without our conscious consent..) short phrases, especially if we think (or the mind catchs..) that that sentence in particular is somewhat important (and this is the case of slogans, by definition). > > From my German point - my feelings are divided about this slogan, easy to > consume yes - because you will not think about it - it sounds like all of the > slogans "freedom inside", "Fedora, the better way of live", "Freedom is a > feature"... boring. I agree. > For me, "what Fedora is" is not enough transported - as a alternative on a > poster or a shirt yes this would be a nice idea. But for me the "infinity > voice freedom" slogan is the better one. "Infitiny. Voice. Freedom" is not an slogan IMHO, since it isn't even a shaped phrase. And who said that an slogan must define a subject? You men are trying to find something that someway can define what Fedora is. An slogan, IMHO, can try that way or can try to transmit some essence, some idea; in the first situation, the worst (rude) way would be three basic ideas separated by a colon. That's what we apparently have. No too much imagination. > Cheers Joerg > > Daniel From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Sun Oct 7 16:22:52 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:22:52 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature In-Reply-To: <3032ee5e0710061647l1aa77850oae096a5baf87472e@mail.gmail.com> References: <3032ee5e0710061647l1aa77850oae096a5baf87472e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1191774172.4831.37.camel@Ulises> El s?b, 06-10-2007 a las 19:47 -0400, Alejo Cerrat0 escribi?: > Hi, > > > i've been following the discussion, and I'd like to add variations of > the slogan to be considered: > > > Fedora: Freedom Capable > > > Freedom: Not just another feature > > > Fedora: Freedom Integrated > > > Fedora: Freedom of Choice (this one's a repeat) > > > I don't think the word 'feature' is only associated with computer > jargon, but it is indeed its stronger association. > It's been also incorporated to, at least in Argentina, where I come > from, to everyday Spanish because of a lack of an accurate 1 word > translation. > > > AlejoCerrato. > -- Well Alejo, believe me if I tell you that here, in Spain, I've never listened to somebody talking about "esta o esa feature". Apart from nobody would understand you, they would look at you with amazement. "Feature" is perfectly translatable to the Spanish, even more... as usually, there are several possibilities for that word: http://diccionario.reverso.net/ingles-espanol/feature Daniel From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Sun Oct 7 16:33:44 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:33:44 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature In-Reply-To: <47085F66.80202@prodigy.net.mx> References: <3032ee5e0710061647l1aa77850oae096a5baf87472e@mail.gmail.com> <47085F66.80202@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <1191774824.4831.47.camel@Ulises> El dom, 07-10-2007 a las 00:24 -0400, Gian Paolo Mureddu escribi?: > > Would (roughly) translate into: > > "Fedora: Liberty included" > > Now, I *chose* __Liberty__ instead of "freedom" given the ambiguous > meaning of "free" in colloquial English. "Free" is ambiguous indeed, but "freedom" is not. > Alas even though "freedom" as > such is reasonably enough "universally understood" as a synonym of > liberty (or so is my [limited] understanding of the English language), It's easy to solve: http://diccionario.reverso.net/ingles-espanol/freedom (est? clarito, ?no?) > I > do believe that the Freedom in Fedora and Free and Open Source software > is actually "liberty" (non-ambiguous with gratis or free of [monetary] > cost). In Spanish there is no way to confuse "libre" with "free" (of > cost) unless directly stated (libre de costo)... I'm aware that it may > sound odd, but in the end I believe it does reflect what Fedora stands > for, unambiguously. > The issue about the "free (software)" with the "free" word, doesn't interferes here with anything at all! You're messing to yourself. Daniel From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Sun Oct 7 16:37:16 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:37:16 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> Message-ID: <1191775036.4831.50.camel@Ulises> El vie, 05-10-2007 a las 19:33 +0200, Jeroen van Meeuwen escribi?: > > My gut feeling tells me I disagree although my brain admits I haven't > been using too much other distros lately; what distro (non-Fedora based) > exactly does offer Freedom as much or as strong as Fedora does? > Debian maybe...? > - -- > Kind regards, > > Jeroen van Meeuwen > - -kanarip > Daniel From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Sun Oct 7 16:49:32 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:49:32 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191612942.3465.190.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1191612942.3465.190.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1191775772.4831.61.camel@Ulises> El vie, 05-10-2007 a las 12:35 -0700, Karsten Wade escribi?: > On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 09:43 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? > > What's funny is, just the other day, I came up with two in the middle of > writing something: "Fedora means freedom" and "Fedora is freedom." "OpenSUSE means freedom" (too..) "Debian is freedom" (Actually, was the first..) "Ubuntu is freedom" (too, why not?) "Gentoo means freedom" (even more freedom.., each user of a system builds each owns packages..) "Slack is freedom" (too, I suppose..) Etc... and... if NOT, tell all them why not if asking!. I COULDN'T. Do you understand me? ;-) > Anyway, similar sentiment but a different kind of depth. > Yeah, more deepness... > I like this one, too. :) > > - Karsten > -- Daniel From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Sun Oct 7 18:38:35 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 20:38:35 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0710051116l37c74e63wbd69c3910bd46ea7@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <13dbfe4f0710051116l37c74e63wbd69c3910bd46ea7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1191782316.4831.158.camel@Ulises> El vie, 05-10-2007 a las 20:16 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH escribi?: > I would rather prefer a slogan(for fedora) which values Fedora > Contributors(RH and community) and not contributors of other distros. > Many fedora contributors spend about 4 hours per day for fedora, at > least it's my case. Having a slogan which values freedom that other > distributions provide, does NOT praise the fedora community, but > rather the "linux community" ! > ++++1 Completely agree > Many fedora technologies are poorly advertised and yet the proposed > slogan doesn't praise fedora, but free software. Fedora isn't just > about "free software", but a wonderful (the best and professional) + > active community that does more than "assembling free packages". > You're right. The main problem IMHO is that despite everything, nobody knows very well what are the identity signs that Fedora should have, nor the possible target audience it should be intended. But this is another discussion that I won't to open here. > The Fedora Project is something really special, it is even the engine > of the linux community. I do not think so, sincerely. I think that sentence goes two steps forward from where it should reasonably. > The Fedora Project has many special contributors and develops anything > for anyone. > > Fedora is not a kiddy-type distribution but provides quality applications/OS. > I think there no kiddy-type distros (apart from Windows :-), and those that AFAIK Red Hat sponsored for schools (K12, etc.. -IIRC) or for the poorest countries with O.L.P.C. I'm not a developer nor a beta-tester, etc... so in this issue I get everything for free, and I dislike scornful comments against other distros. Said this.., I have to say that unfortunately most of the times the victim of comments (I mean over there...) is Fedora. > Example 1: > Aren't you proud of Fedora Artwork in each release ? Every time > there's something new and every time one will see posts on > planet.fedoraproject.org praising Fedora Artwork. Which other > distributions have a better artwork community than Fedora's ? There > isn't. > There are many Fedora SIGs which have done wonderful work. > Chitlesh, with all the respect for you and the Fedoda Artwork team, I must say that there are several distros where they much care its look. Some of them come with KDE by default, what means a more polished look (e.g. Suse). In respect to GNOME, I think the gnome.art exists long before the Fedora one: http://art.gnome.org/ Most of them here I believe they use Debian and/or Ubuntu. In respect to me, like many other Fedora/Linux-in-general users, actually I generally prefer Gnome themes (all them available in the repositories), and I do not hide that I dislike even the boot splash, therefore I use to change it, and so on many things.. The F7 appearance was notably better than the F6 one, IMO. I respect their work. But one of F6 or F5 (I do not remember yet) was, IMO, a vulgar childish (Be aware I'm not talking about the icons made by a woman, I do not remember now her name but I think they are cool and fresh). This one (F7) preserves something of that (childish) yet, but I repeat that wasn't my choice at all. BTW, past days I've read somewhere over there (I don't remember where) that Red Hat doesn't allow to Fedora teams the use of the red colour in logos, oficial Fedora websites, etc.. Then, I understood why Fedora is bluuuuuueeee everything around; blue combined with white for example (in good proportions) could be OK, but blue combined with more blue..., is really depressing. This are basic things, the A,B,C.., I'm not a designer nor anything related, but there are things that claims.. Let me a test, Chitlesh, ask to you; please, go to both sites briefly: http://en.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org http://fedoraproject.org/ http://www.ubuntu.com/ You are a really common desktop user.. Which one do you most like? All of them probably have, more or less, the same (respective) info inside, however they don't look like very much. And the look of the Fedora main page has improved considerably in the last months.. > > Example 2: > In the past, people cursed fedora for X,Y and Z reasons. > Fedora has already fixed and improved X, Y and Z. > But still people are pointing to the X,Y and Z. > Aren't you sick about it ? > I agree. One of the problems of Fedora as a Project is that they don't know how to sell their own product. There are many Fedora email lists, there are ambassadors around the world, etc... but we lack of a good look for the Fedora website, because of we have the blue..., just and only the blue blue.. Who could be attracted by something like that? Oh! I forget..! It doesn't have importance, since we do not need tons of new users...We just know that we are __better__ than other distros.. Good. > Example 3: > someone: Hai, have you seen X has new features (P,Q,R and S) that no > other distribution has? > Me: Fedora has P, Q, R and S since at least 6 months now, perhaps even > since a year ago. > Didn't you come across this before ? > example of example 3: > http://linuxglobe.wordpress.com/2007/10/01/fedora-8-needs-to-add-features-like-ubuntu-710/ > > You're right here too. I'm sure you are a good "ambassador" over there in the net, seriously. I can imagine you in those typical forum threads where the Ubuntu (Windows and other species) users generally end up crushing you. Into those arenas is where really users get worked up and can encourage to someone to try this one or that one distro. > Well that my thoughts. I'll advise not to jump and choose any slogan. > > > Chitlesh > -- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com Regards, Daniel From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 7 18:48:23 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 00:18:23 +0530 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191782316.4831.158.camel@Ulises> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <13dbfe4f0710051116l37c74e63wbd69c3910bd46ea7@mail.gmail.com> <1191782316.4831.158.camel@Ulises> Message-ID: <470929F7.4080606@fedoraproject.org> M Daniel R Magarzo wrote: > > You're right. The main problem IMHO is that despite everything, nobody > knows very well what are the identity signs that Fedora should have, nor > the possible target audience it should be intended. But this is another > discussion that I won't to open here. http://gregdek.livejournal.com/16940.html > > BTW, past days I've read somewhere over there (I don't remember where) > that Red Hat doesn't allow to Fedora teams the use of the red colour in > logos, oficial Fedora websites, etc.. Then, I understood why Fedora is > bluuuuuueeee everything around; You have read wrong information. Blue is used because it is the Fedora color. If Fedora art team wants to use Red they are free to. Rahul Ps: Instead of sending many mails, consolidate your replies. From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Sun Oct 7 19:04:39 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 21:04:39 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1191783879.4831.177.camel@Ulises> El vie, 05-10-2007 a las 18:59 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH escribi?: > On 10/5/07, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > > > What do people think of this as "The Slogan" of Fedora? > > It's been rolling around in my head ever since. What do you folks think? > > Sounds good, but isn't primarily for fedora. > Freedom is a Feature. Having lots of "F" does point to Fedora. But > other linux distributions provide "freedom" too. > I agree with you. > The slogan of Fedora should be related to "what makes fedora so unique". > Nobody knows. It sounds hard, but sadly.. The best approach IMO would be of a laboratory of Red Hat Enterprise product. That explains its speedy life cicle. Therefore, according with it, Fedora is not targeted for _desktop_ users, that is.. common end users; it's for folks that want the latest in I.T. (hence, tech users... that is... really a very minority). That's not what I would like personally, but that's what is at the moment. > The proposed slogan needs to be rephrased! > perhaps: "New Features for your Freedom." > I don't like it too much, but better that "Freedom is a Feature" without doubt!! > regards, > Chitlesh > -- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > Daniel From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Sun Oct 7 19:27:07 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 21:27:07 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <47066EF4.5070106@gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47066EF4.5070106@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1191785227.4831.195.camel@Ulises> El vie, 05-10-2007 a las 22:35 +0530, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay escribi?: > > Sounds good, but isn't primarily for fedora. > > But it just fits the SUCCES bits of > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_to_Stick > > :) -Simplicity ?finding the core of any idea.............. Pass (maybe) -Unexpectedness ?grabbing people's attention by surprising them ................................... FAIL (IMO) -Concreteness ?making sure an idea can be grasped and remembered later ................................. I'm not sure. I'd bet it wouldn't. -Credibility ?giving an idea believability ............ Not much applicable IMO (this is a slogan..) -Emotion ?helping people see the importance of an idea Pass (maybe) -Stories ?empowering people to use an idea through narrative Not applicable here IMO ---------------------------------------------------------- Daniel From kanarip at kanarip.com Sun Oct 7 19:36:32 2007 From: kanarip at kanarip.com (Jeroen van Meeuwen) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 21:36:32 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191775036.4831.50.camel@Ulises> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <1191775036.4831.50.camel@Ulises> Message-ID: <47093540.4070104@kanarip.com> M Daniel R Magarzo wrote: > El vie, 05-10-2007 a las 19:33 +0200, Jeroen van Meeuwen escribi??: > >> My gut feeling tells me I disagree although my brain admits I haven't >> been using too much other distros lately; what distro (non-Fedora based) >> exactly does offer Freedom as much or as strong as Fedora does? >> > > Debian maybe...? > Like I suggested the question should maybe have been answered with just gut feelings rather then actual brain activity because otherwise this is going to end up being a rather long discussion, besides being off-topic; Debian has non-free bits floating around in their universe. Although most have a different definition of Freedom, Fedora picks the most extreme and, in essence, the only real definition of Freedom. -- Kind regards, Jeroen van Meeuwen -kanarip -- http://www.kanarip.com/ RHCE, LPIC-2, MCP, CCNA C6B0 7FB4 43E6 CDDA D258 F70B 28DE 9FDA 9342 BF08 From mattdm at mattdm.org Sun Oct 7 19:41:28 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 15:41:28 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191785227.4831.195.camel@Ulises> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47066EF4.5070106@gmail.com> <1191785227.4831.195.camel@Ulises> Message-ID: <20071007194128.GA21916@jadzia.bu.edu> On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 09:27:07PM +0200, M Daniel R Magarzo wrote: > -Simplicity ?finding the core of any idea.............. > Pass (maybe) > -Unexpectedness ?grabbing people's attention > by surprising them ................................... > FAIL (IMO) Perhaps this is the key difference between the slogan to computer-savvy English speakers and translated. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From crazymulgogi at gmail.com Sun Oct 7 20:42:07 2007 From: crazymulgogi at gmail.com (Herman Meester) Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 22:42:07 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature In-Reply-To: <1191774824.4831.47.camel@Ulises> References: <3032ee5e0710061647l1aa77850oae096a5baf87472e@mail.gmail.com> <47085F66.80202@prodigy.net.mx> <1191774824.4831.47.camel@Ulises> Message-ID: 2007/10/7, M Daniel R Magarzo : > > El dom, 07-10-2007 a las 00:24 -0400, Gian Paolo Mureddu escribi?: > > > > > Would (roughly) translate into: > > > > "Fedora: Liberty included" > > > > Now, I *chose* __Liberty__ instead of "freedom" given the ambiguous > > meaning of "free" in colloquial English. > > "Free" is ambiguous indeed, but "freedom" is not. > > > Alas even though "freedom" as > > such is reasonably enough "universally understood" as a synonym of > > liberty (or so is my [limited] understanding of the English language), > > > It's easy to solve: > http://diccionario.reverso.net/ingles-espanol/freedom > > (est? clarito, ?no?) Liberty and freedom are synonymous, but they are used in completely different contexts. Liberty is mainly used in social contexts, "may I take the liberty to..", in political contexts, "liberty as a universal aspiration of man", "the attack of the US government on civil liberties is, alas, not met with much resistance", etc. Freedom is a much more existential and down-to-earth word, much preferred to liberty when it comes to slogans such as discussed here. A prisoner wants freedom, not liberty. Freedom is the abstract yet very concrete 'version' of liberty. I think it is a much abused word, especially in some regions of the world. "God" is much more abused, though, so we can safely use the former. My idea of a slogan: "Fedora - not all things free suck" or: "Booting freedom... [[[ OK ]]]" :) hrmn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 7 20:50:57 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 22:50:57 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191782316.4831.158.camel@Ulises> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <13dbfe4f0710051116l37c74e63wbd69c3910bd46ea7@mail.gmail.com> <1191782316.4831.158.camel@Ulises> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0710071350l2062c7a5o4397b21b504a7414@mail.gmail.com> On 10/7/07, M Daniel R Magarzo wrote: >>> The Fedora Project is something really special, it is even the engine >>> of the linux community. >> I do not think so, sincerely. I think that sentence goes two steps >> forward from where it should reasonably. I wonder what new apps or feature I'm using recently which does not have Fedora contributions. > Chitlesh, with all the respect for you and the Fedoda Artwork team, I > must say that there are several distros where they much care its look. > Some of them come with KDE by default, what means a more polished look > (e.g. Suse). I meant "Each Fedora release, there is a new artwork theme". Thus this implies a lot of work A lot of work ==>>> A lot of discussion and A lot of communication You can even see non english artwork contributors working together on an english platform to come up in the end with a product, (a new artwork theme, in this case) In my opinion, this is something that deserves RESPECT ! Now when you see other distributions having the same artwork for many years surely there's would be more polished. However the Fedora Artwork community has recently adopted a new strategy besides only producing artwork. Now they are willing to promote opensource tools they use for designing artwork. see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ArtTeamProjects/FedoraArtStudio Well that deserves RESPECT TOO ! > Let me a test, Chitlesh, ask to you; please, go to both sites briefly: > You are a really common desktop user.. Which one do you most like? > All of them probably have, more or less, the same (respective) info > inside, however they don't look like very much. > And the look of the Fedora main page has improved considerably in the > last months.. I'm a special case. I value quality/professional and hardwork before appearance as you might surely deduce from now. This attitude affects my movie/music selections up to my favorite distro. I talked to various contributors of various distributions on various open source events, but never saw something professional, for me to say "wow" (only centos). I won't choose a distro just because of its look, but rather how professional its contributors are. That's the main reason why I recommend Centos after fedora. > You're right here too. I'm sure you are a good "ambassador" over there > in the net, seriously. I can imagine you in those typical forum threads > where the Ubuntu (Windows and other species) users generally end up > crushing you. Into those arenas is where really users get worked up and > can encourage to someone to try this one or that one distro. No, I'm not that kind of person, I promote fedora in real life mainly. With a few minutes spent reading the threads one can automatically deduce the weakness of the writer. Then you point to the right URL. that's it ! :) However I'm not in the distro war, as I take fedora as the upstream of other linux distributions, you might even see that on my blog postings. Ok, I guess this discussion is going way off from its title. Chitlesh ==:ads :==) PS: If a user wants to do VLSI simulation, besides Fedora there is no other distribution which is simple to use and install !! see: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/FedoraElectronicLab Now if the user wants to use proprietary vlsi simulators on linux, AGAIN fedora and its derivatives are THE BEST solutions !! see my blog posts why. -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Sun Oct 7 21:15:22 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 23:15:22 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <470929F7.4080606@fedoraproject.org> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <13dbfe4f0710051116l37c74e63wbd69c3910bd46ea7@mail.gmail.com> <1191782316.4831.158.camel@Ulises> <470929F7.4080606@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1191791722.4831.245.camel@Ulises> El lun, 08-10-2007 a las 00:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram escribi?: > M Daniel R Magarzo wrote: > > > > You're right. The main problem IMHO is that despite everything, nobody > > knows very well what are the identity signs that Fedora should have, nor > > the possible target audience it should be intended. But this is another > > discussion that I won't to open here. > > http://gregdek.livejournal.com/16940.html That argument is not convincing at all. If you want to put yourself a vendaje over your eyes.., your self... Most of you (developers -mostly from Red Hat or got involved there, etc...-) think that everyone that uses Linux, having chose or not Fedora, is a developer too, and therefore is in condition of promote big changes in a Linux project. That's precisely your fault, I think developers are completely unable to abstract themselves by a moment and to think like common end users would be (empathy). > > > > BTW, past days I've read somewhere over there (I don't remember where) > > that Red Hat doesn't allow to Fedora teams the use of the red colour in > > logos, oficial Fedora websites, etc.. Then, I understood why Fedora is > > bluuuuuueeee everything around; > > You have read wrong information. It's possible. One read so much info throughout the weeks.. It was just a comment I read.. You seem uncomfortable with it. If sometime I find where it was, I promise that you will be the first I will tell it.:-) > Blue is used because it is the Fedora > color. :-) A strange colour for a skin, not? Maybe Fedora (=Teodora, Dorotea) is ill. > If Fedora art team wants to use Red they are free to. > Maybe like the freedom to use typical RH hats but in blue? What a paradoxical! > Rahul > Ps: Instead of sending many mails, consolidate your replies. > No problem. Understood. Maybe a private one for this would have been more elegant. I'd have understood. ;-) What are the limit, please? I couldn't even see the email-messages until today, but if you say that sending 6-8 emails are "many" you must be right.. There are tons of infinite threads almost daily that surpass this amount per day. So, considering that I didn't reply anything from Monday until today (Sunday), average would be... 1 per day? Do you consider it "many"? In relation with "consolidate your replies", please let me know if there is a only email that lacks of sense or not written seriously. Daniel From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 7 21:30:22 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 03:00:22 +0530 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191791722.4831.245.camel@Ulises> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <13dbfe4f0710051116l37c74e63wbd69c3910bd46ea7@mail.gmail.com> <1191782316.4831.158.camel@Ulises> <470929F7.4080606@fedoraproject.org> <1191791722.4831.245.camel@Ulises> Message-ID: <47094FEE.8040308@fedoraproject.org> M Daniel R Magarzo wrote: > El lun, 08-10-2007 a las 00:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram escribi?: >> M Daniel R Magarzo wrote: >>> You're right. The main problem IMHO is that despite everything, nobody >>> knows very well what are the identity signs that Fedora should have, nor >>> the possible target audience it should be intended. But this is another >>> discussion that I won't to open here. >> http://gregdek.livejournal.com/16940.html > > > That argument is not convincing at all. If you want to put yourself a > vendaje over your eyes.., your self... What are you doing to help? Just waving a big flag doesn't change anything. > It's possible. One read so much info throughout the weeks.. > It was just a comment I read.. You seem uncomfortable with it. > If sometime I find where it was, I promise that you will be the first I > will tell it.:-) I am uncomfortable with people spreading misinformation, yes. > A strange colour for a skin, not? Maybe Fedora (=Teodora, Dorotea) is > ill. It's not a skin color. It is the color for a distribution. Very different things. > Maybe like the freedom to use typical RH hats but in blue? What a > paradoxical! It is part of a brand. Fedora's brand is explicitly different from others. The name, logo and colors are part of it. > In relation with "consolidate your replies", please let me know if there > is a only email that lacks of sense or not written seriously. When you are replying to many mails, consolidate the replies. Dozens of mails one after another as a answer for a week's worth of mails is not very courteous to people reading those mails. Just common netiquette. Rahul From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sun Oct 7 22:26:37 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 00:26:37 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191791722.4831.245.camel@Ulises> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <13dbfe4f0710051116l37c74e63wbd69c3910bd46ea7@mail.gmail.com> <1191782316.4831.158.camel@Ulises> <470929F7.4080606@fedoraproject.org> <1191791722.4831.245.camel@Ulises> Message-ID: <1191795997.9453.22.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le dimanche 07 octobre 2007 ? 23:15 +0200, M Daniel R Magarzo a ?crit : > Most of you (developers -mostly from Red Hat or got involved there, > etc...-) think that everyone that uses Linux, having chose or not > Fedora, is a developer too, and therefore is in condition of promote big > changes in a Linux project. That's one of the "identity signs" of Fedora. We fix stuff we don't wait for other distributions to do it for us. And we fix stuff at every level ? development, packaging, artwork, etc Another "identity sign" is Freedom. We get enough slack for making hard decisions (when other distributions formally tag stuff 'non-free" then distribute it anyway and make no active effort to replace it) to know they are hard decisions and not everyone makes them. > That's precisely your fault, I think > developers are completely unable to abstract themselves by a moment and > to think like common end users would be (empathy). Users think short term. Red Hat and Fedora think long term. We don't take decisions that may haunt us later lightly. That's a third "identity sign". Countless users decided at a time "RHL/Fedora is not user-friendly, I'll use foo distro" instead and then foo distro disappeared because it achieved short-term user-friendliness at the cost of long-term user-friendliness (being still there to help users) We certainly have poor communication but that's not because Fedora is lacking identity. Fedora has strong identity. It wants to build a free community platform period. That's something inherited from Red Hat. Red Hat didn't achieve its market-leader situation by being confused on the objectives. -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Sun Oct 7 22:27:46 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 00:27:46 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature In-Reply-To: References: <3032ee5e0710061647l1aa77850oae096a5baf87472e@mail.gmail.com> <47085F66.80202@prodigy.net.mx> <1191774824.4831.47.camel@Ulises> Message-ID: <1191796066.4831.288.camel@Ulises> El dom, 07-10-2007 a las 22:42 +0200, Herman Meester escribi?: > > > 2007/10/7, M Daniel R Magarzo : > El dom, 07-10-2007 a las 00:24 -0400, Gian Paolo Mureddu > escribi?: > > > > Liberty and freedom are synonymous, but they are used in completely > different contexts. > Liberty is mainly used in social contexts, "may I take the liberty > to..", in political contexts, "liberty as a universal aspiration of > man", "the attack of the US government on civil liberties is, alas, > not met with much resistance", etc. > > Freedom is a much more existential and down-to-earth word, much > preferred to liberty when it comes to slogans such as discussed here. > A prisoner wants freedom, not liberty. Freedom is the abstract yet > very concrete 'version' of liberty. > > I think it is a much abused word, especially in some regions of the > world. "God" is much more abused, though, so we can safely use the > former. > Undestood. > My idea of a slogan: > > "Fedora - not all things free suck" > > Very hard, not? > or: > > "Booting freedom... [[[ OK ]]]" > > > :) :-)) > > hrmn > -- My 2 cents below :-) Fedora. Here we are. Fedora. Is your Linux? Fedora as your Linux. Fedora is your Linux. Put a Linux in your Desktop. Put Fedora. Fedora. A Linux over your desktop. F8's ready. You? F8's ready. And you? Fedora's ready. And you? You're ready for F? Aren't you fedoring yet? Fedora 8 for your mind. Fedora. For your mind. Fedora. Take it! Is Fedora for you? Try it! Is Fedora your good? Is Fedora your gift? Fedora. Our gift. Fedora. A gift for freedom. Fedora. My key, my gift. Fedora. A key for you inside the gift. Fedora. A gift with the master key. Fedora. The master key. Fedora. The gratitude instead. Fedora. A gift with the key inside. Fedora, the gift. Fedora, the master key. Fedora. Gift and key. Fedora. Gift and master key. Fedora. Try out its key. Fedora. A present for the future. Fedora. Our present for our freedom. Fedora. Present for our freedom. Fedora. A present with the key. Fedora. A key gift for ours. Fedora. A key gift. Fedora. The key gift. Fedora. A key gift on the Desk. Fedora. A key gift for our liberty. Fedora. A key for the ocean. Fedora. An 8 Linux key. Fedora. A master Linux key. Fedora. A master key. Fedora. Master key. Fedora. Our key for the ocean. Fedora. A key to the ocean. Fedora. A key to open the ocean. Fedora. A gift for the ocean. Fedora. A gift for the liberty. Fedora. Key gift. Fedora. The key of the ocean. Fedora. The ocean's key Fedora. The ocean's need. Daniel P.S. Maybe the word "ocean" included into some of them needs somewhat explanation.. The ocean is something that has to do in some manner with bigger values, like infinite, its waves are there for ever; it sight is like something infinite, suggesting, ... The ocean is freedom too; in front of a single green field without any tree, just some dull clouds in the sky, the ocean is homogeneous too, apparently are almost the same, but they have nothing to do: the ocean is dangerous, mysterious, variable, etc.. The ocean is also a place for the messages, for the communication, it has also its own sound,... For those who like the blue, the ocean is bluuue.. And the most important for me, the ocean is what joins all the lands, continents. It has something magical. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 8 01:50:24 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 07:20:24 +0530 Subject: Interview with Fedora's Max Spevack Message-ID: <47098CE0.1070002@fedoraproject.org> Hi A relatively older interview but I missed it before and so here it is. There are interesting bits and pieces in there for all. http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2007/06/interview-with-fedoras-max-spevack.html "Fedora is a distribution that we try to release twice a year, and we try to always focus on the things that are important to the larger Fedora community, while at the same time allowing Fedora to be a place where things that Red Hat engineering groups are working on can also make their way into the distribution." Rahul From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 8 08:43:49 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 11:43:49 +0300 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4709EDC5.2080703@nicubunu.ro> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > So I'm starting to see a pattern. > > Native English speakers seem to *really* dig it. > > Non-native speakers seem more reserved. This is correct: I, as a non-native English speaker, dig it in Enghlish but would have a hard time translating it in my native language. But I don't see this as a reason to reject it. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 8 08:53:25 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 11:53:25 +0300 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <47065FF2.6010509@redhat.com> References: <4706447E.7030906@fedoraproject.org> <4706450F.6030901@redhat.com> <470646CD.4030401@fedoraproject.org> <470649C2.3020303@redhat.com> <20071005144628.GA26504@jadzia.bu.edu> <470658C1.3060202@nicubunu.ro> <47065FF2.6010509@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4709F005.5010202@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Nicu Buculei wrote: >> What we should to to "protect": when we go live with the slogan for >> the first time we should do *a lot* of noise about it, not just put >> quietly a new banner on the site. > > any ideas on how to promote it? I have a large-scale idea: set up a place and invite people to submit there creation illustrating *their own* vision about freedom: photos, drawings, 3D art, poetry, short prose, music, video clips, animations, clay models, paintings... anything. As an example, *for me* the best illustration is an image with large empty spaces in the wilderness, for someone else could be the sea, people gathered at a rock concert and so on. > this is kind of what i was thinking altho, heh, i was too lazy to gimp > the photo up to make it more suitable for the text otherwise it'd be > bigger and positioned a bit more nicely: > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/temp/freedom-slogan.png As a simple implementation I see this possibility: write the text "freedom is a feature" using the Fedora font and the Fedora blue for the "freedom" and "feature" words (not for "is a") but without actually using the "fedora" word anywhere, let people to the connection by themselves. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Mon Oct 8 16:22:28 2007 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:22:28 -0300 Subject: Fedora 7 at Linux+ Magazine Message-ID: <470A5944.7010607@projetofedora.org> The Brazilian Fedora Project wrote 2 articles for this edition. # Fedora 7 Rocks your Desktop! Rodrigo Padula, Igor Pires Soares, Marcelo Mello >From this article you will learn about the interface of Fedora GNU/Linux distribution, one of the most commonly used distribuions in the world. # Network Configuration in Fedora 7 Rodrio Padula, Igor Pires Soares In this article Rodrigo and his freinds present the configuration of a local network using system-config-network and wireless devices with ndiswrapper. See http://www.lpmagazine.org/en/linuxplus/issues.html for more informations about the magazine. Beste regards! Rodrigo Padula Brazilian Fedora Project http://www.projetofedora.org From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Mon Oct 8 19:40:41 2007 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:40:41 -0300 Subject: Sony PS3 with Fedora Message-ID: <470A87B9.2010804@projetofedora.org> UNICAMP -Brazilian Federal University using 12 Sony PS3 in Cluster with Fedora. http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Tecnologia/0,,MUL146410-6174,00-UNICAMP+USA+PLAYSTATION+PARA+REALIZAR+PESQUISAS.html Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira Brazilian Fedora Project From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Mon Oct 8 19:48:35 2007 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:48:35 -0300 Subject: Vixta Message-ID: <470A8993.7000204@projetofedora.org> Hi all!!! See this: Vixta: A Fedora Linux-based Windows Vista clone http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/10/04/vixta-a-fedora-linux-based-windows-vista-clone/ From crazymulgogi at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 22:57:19 2007 From: crazymulgogi at gmail.com (Herman Meester) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 00:57:19 +0200 Subject: Vixta In-Reply-To: <470A8993.7000204@projetofedora.org> References: <470A8993.7000204@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: 2007/10/8, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira : > > Hi all!!! > > See this: > > Vixta: A Fedora Linux-based Windows Vista clone > > > http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/10/04/vixta-a-fedora-linux-based-windows-vista-clone/ Fascinating... What's "Windows Vista"? I vaguely remember it being mentioned somewhere. Well, you'll be the first to know when I find out. :lol: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Oct 8 23:08:00 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 07:08:00 +0800 Subject: Vixta In-Reply-To: <470A8993.7000204@projetofedora.org> References: <470A8993.7000204@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <470AB850.7030803@mwiriadi.id.au> Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > Hi all!!! > > See this: > > Vixta: A Fedora Linux-based Windows Vista clone > > http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/10/04/vixta-a-fedora-linux-based-windows-vista-clone/ > > Was just going to mail this after I saw it on digg. It is nicely done and very clean. The comments I've seen are pretty positive. It's amazing what you can make linux look like. Cheers, Marc From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Tue Oct 9 06:18:40 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 02:18:40 -0400 Subject: Sony PS3 with Fedora In-Reply-To: <470A87B9.2010804@projetofedora.org> References: <470A87B9.2010804@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <1191910720.470b1d4027e04@ssl.mecca.ca> Hopefully SCE will take notice. With the recent news of AMD/ATI releasing the specification, Sonu/Nvidia should pull a similar announcemnt in the console world for the GPU. -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 9 06:37:30 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:07:30 +0530 Subject: Vixta In-Reply-To: <470A8993.7000204@projetofedora.org> References: <470A8993.7000204@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <470B21AA.3060301@fedoraproject.org> Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > Hi all!!! > > See this: > > Vixta: A Fedora Linux-based Windows Vista clone > > http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/10/04/vixta-a-fedora-linux-based-windows-vista-clone/ This is probably a quick way to get a trademark infringement suit filed against them and other cases depending on how much you can protect the look and feel. Rahul From karlthered2 at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 08:01:13 2007 From: karlthered2 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?H._Gu=E9mar?=) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:01:13 +0200 Subject: Fedora 7 at Linux+ Magazine In-Reply-To: <470A5944.7010607@projetofedora.org> References: <470A5944.7010607@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: Good job, guys ! There are also two articles about CentOS: #Installing CentOS Johnny Hughes In this article the author shows step-by-step how to install and configure CentOS and 5.0, n Enterprise-class Linux Distribution derived from sources freely provided to the public by a prominent North American Enterprise Linux vendor. #From Zero to Hero Patrick Moelands Here Patrick describes CentOS and its gaining popularity. He will also discuss community and much more about it. Fedora community and friends are at honors in Linux+ \o/ From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Tue Oct 9 16:20:28 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 17:20:28 +0100 Subject: Interview 4 Message-ID: <3263b11b0710090920q23b7772s7f544d8ffaabb73d@mail.gmail.com> Just put it up, but I'm heading out now so I've blogged quickly and submitted digg! http://digg.com/linux_unix/Fedora_8_s_Artwork http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/MairinDuffy Thanks all, and hope it's OK :D Jon From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 9 16:32:49 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:02:49 +0530 Subject: Interview 4 In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710090920q23b7772s7f544d8ffaabb73d@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710090920q23b7772s7f544d8ffaabb73d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <470BAD31.9080707@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Just put it up, but I'm heading out now so I've blogged quickly and > submitted digg! > > http://digg.com/linux_unix/Fedora_8_s_Artwork > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/MairinDuffy > > Thanks all, > > and hope it's OK :D You might want to change the second screenshot to be consistent with the rest of the screenshot sizes. Also having a screenshot of the actual desktop instead of the wallpaper might be good to see how it looks along with the Nodoka theme, Rahul From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Tue Oct 9 17:13:17 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 18:13:17 +0100 Subject: Interview 4 In-Reply-To: <470BAD31.9080707@fedoraproject.org> References: <3263b11b0710090920q23b7772s7f544d8ffaabb73d@mail.gmail.com> <470BAD31.9080707@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710091013r4b4293cfgbfc58c485bfd163d@mail.gmail.com> > You might want to change the second screenshot to be consistent with the > rest of the screenshot sizes. Also having a screenshot of the actual > desktop instead of the wallpaper might be good to see how it looks along > with the Nodoka theme, OK, I'm just changing the size of that screenshot now... I'll upload one with Nodoka too if you think it's a good idea, but I'll do it as an extra to just the wallpaper, otherwise it might get obscured. Best, Jon From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 9 17:16:23 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:46:23 +0530 Subject: Interview 4 In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710091013r4b4293cfgbfc58c485bfd163d@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710090920q23b7772s7f544d8ffaabb73d@mail.gmail.com> <470BAD31.9080707@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710091013r4b4293cfgbfc58c485bfd163d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <470BB767.4000708@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> You might want to change the second screenshot to be consistent with the >> rest of the screenshot sizes. Also having a screenshot of the actual >> desktop instead of the wallpaper might be good to see how it looks along >> with the Nodoka theme, > > OK, I'm just changing the size of that screenshot now... > > I'll upload one with Nodoka too if you think it's a good idea, but > I'll do it as an extra to just the wallpaper, otherwise it might get > obscured. Yes. That would work well. Which sites are you sending this? I submitted to Fedora forum and OSNews Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 9 17:38:42 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 23:08:42 +0530 Subject: Interviews for Fedora 8 - TODO Message-ID: <470BBCA2.5020301@fedoraproject.org> Hi Just throwing out ideas... Codec Buddy: Bastien Nocera (again) New default sound server, Pulse Audio: Lennart Poettering (upstream too) New Firewall tool, system-config-firewall by twoerner New system logging daemon, rsyslog: pvrabec, sgrubb, upstream: rgerhards at adiscon.com Transifex: Dimitris Glezos Network Manager 0.7: Dan Williams (upstream too) PolicyKit: David Zuethen (upstream too) Laptop work: Suspend/resume. power management and multimedia keys: Richard Hughes Rebranding and custom spins touching upon generic-logos and future direction: Bill Nottingham and Seth Vidal That should cover the major visible changes. Rahul From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Tue Oct 9 17:46:25 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 18:46:25 +0100 Subject: Interviews for Fedora 8 - TODO In-Reply-To: <470BBCA2.5020301@fedoraproject.org> References: <470BBCA2.5020301@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710091046q43b0048cj6c53ccd814f250df@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Rahul!! I've been meaning to ask if someone could put together a list like this :D I think I'd suggest, if anyone else is interested in doing some of these interviews, reply to the thread and make it clear what you want to do...would be quite helpful if somebody else did a few but it's not the end of the world if not! Lol, that is assuming the devs are all happy to answer the questions - make sure to ask nicely first :p Just a little bit more info to go with it: > Codec Buddy: Bastien Nocera (again) I feel bad to ask Bastien again, there's another name down along side the feature too but haven't had any response... > > New default sound server, Pulse Audio: Lennart Poettering (upstream too) Already on to this one :D > > New Firewall tool, system-config-firewall by twoerner Will try and dig out the contact details fro twoerner - unless somebody else fancies having a crack at the interview? > > New system logging daemon, rsyslog: pvrabec, sgrubb, upstream: > rgerhards at adiscon.com This sounds a little beyond my technical knowledge to make a reasonable interview, so I think somebody else will need to do it - if possible... > > Transifex: Dimitris Glezos Already done, set to go up next. > > Network Manager 0.7: Dan Williams (upstream too) Yes, this would be a good one! > > PolicyKit: David Zuethen (upstream too) Again cool :D > > Laptop work: Suspend/resume. power management and multimedia keys: > Richard Hughes How many ways can I say cool.... > > Rebranding and custom spins touching upon generic-logos and future > direction: Bill Nottingham and Seth Vidal Again, cool ! Thanks Rahul! Jon From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 22:36:37 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 00:36:37 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <47093540.4070104@kanarip.com> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <1191775036.4831.50.camel@Ulises> <47093540.4070104@kanarip.com> Message-ID: <1191969397.10798.41.camel@Ulises> El dom, 07-10-2007 a las 21:36 +0200, Jeroen van Meeuwen escribi?: > Debian has non-free bits floating around in their universe. And probably your own Fedora system too. I suppose that everything would depend on how we would define the system "universe" (limits, etc.) I don't know much people (actually no one) that configure their system ignoring some well-know repositories, like livna, adobe, or others... In fact, without them, a Fedora system wouldn't be so attractive/effective (in terms of variety of packages) for a majority of average users. Those are facts, not hypocrisy. Sometimes, following rules strictly just lead to a decrease or maybe a lack of freedom indeed. On the other hand, everyone is free to follow their way...and see. Probably what makes to Red Hat (and therefore Fedora) be away from non-free bytes are not actually principles, but caution against possible legal issues. As the (Chaucer universal well-known) saying goes..."to make a virtue of necessity". > Although > most have a different definition of Freedom, Fedora picks the most > extreme and, in essence, the only real definition of Freedom. > Do you really believe this...??? > -- > Kind regards, > > Jeroen van Meeuwen > -kanarip > > -- > http://www.kanarip.com/ > RHCE, LPIC-2, MCP, CCNA > C6B0 7FB4 43E6 CDDA D258 F70B 28DE 9FDA 9342 BF08 > Take care, Daniel From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 9 23:07:54 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 04:37:54 +0530 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191969397.10798.41.camel@Ulises> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <1191775036.4831.50.camel@Ulises> <47093540.4070104@kanarip.com> <1191969397.10798.41.camel@Ulises> Message-ID: <470C09CA.8040201@fedoraproject.org> M Daniel R Magarzo wrote: > El dom, 07-10-2007 a las 21:36 +0200, Jeroen van Meeuwen escribi?: > >> Debian has non-free bits floating around in their universe. > > And probably your own Fedora system too. > I suppose that everything would depend on how we would define the system > "universe" (limits, etc.) This is serious hand waving. Debian has a non-free repository hosted by Debian. Fedora does not. > Probably what makes to Red Hat (and therefore Fedora) be away from > non-free bytes are not actually principles, but caution against possible > legal issues. As the (Chaucer universal well-known) saying goes..."to > make a virtue of necessity". No. There are hundreds of very safe legal gratis non-free software. Fedora does ship them out of principles. No second guessing required. Rahul From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 23:32:30 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 01:32:30 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191795997.9453.22.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <13dbfe4f0710051116l37c74e63wbd69c3910bd46ea7@mail.gmail.com> <1191782316.4831.158.camel@Ulises> <470929F7.4080606@fedoraproject.org> <1191791722.4831.245.camel@Ulises> <1191795997.9453.22.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1191972751.10798.80.camel@Ulises> El lun, 08-10-2007 a las 00:26 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot escribi?: > Le dimanche 07 octobre 2007 ? 23:15 +0200, M Daniel R Magarzo a ?crit : > > > Most of you (developers -mostly from Red Hat or got involved there, > > etc...-) think that everyone that uses Linux, having chose or not > > Fedora, is a developer too, and therefore is in condition of promote big > > changes in a Linux project. > > That's one of the "identity signs" of Fedora. We fix stuff we don't wait > for other distributions to do it for us. And we fix stuff at every level > ? development, packaging, artwork, etc > Yes, precisely it's quite the opposite... you fix stuff in order that other distributions (aka Red Hat) don't have to do it; you do it for them. ...and that I wouldn't call "an identity sign", but almost necessity. > Another "identity sign" is Freedom. We get enough slack for making hard > decisions (when other distributions formally tag stuff 'non-free" then > distribute it anyway and make no active effort to replace it) to know > they are hard decisions and not everyone makes them. "Hard decisions" are when least "controversial decisions". Many people think that to be too much rigid (no matter the topic, whatever issue in life..) doesn't lead to anywhere. I personally agree. > > That's precisely your fault, I think > > developers are completely unable to abstract themselves by a moment and > > to think like common end users would be (empathy). > > Users think short term. Red Hat and Fedora think long term. We don't > take decisions that may haunt us later lightly. That's a third "identity > sign". Countless users decided at a time "RHL/Fedora is not > user-friendly, I'll use foo distro" instead and then foo distro > disappeared because it achieved short-term user-friendliness at the cost > of long-term user-friendliness (being still there to help users) > That's a wise decision from Red Hat. If I were Red Hat, probably I'd do the same.. all in all, my clients wouldn't be end users, but enterprise employees. But when Fedora follows (copy, reproduce) that strategy (better than say "principles"), it's not so much clear that they are getting right. You believe such things and I don't, but probably I'm wrong. All in all, I'm just _the end user_ here, no more, and I think in "short-term"... > We certainly have poor communication but that's not because Fedora is > lacking identity. Fedora has strong identity. Don't make me laugh. Proof that the last is not true is simply that many people are discussing about this over there. If something has -really- a _strong identity_ it is reflected instantaneously, and noboby brings up the issue at all. > It wants to build a free > community platform period. That's something inherited from Red Hat. Red > Hat didn't achieve its market-leader situation by being confused on the > objectives. > Red Hat is Red Ha, and I don't care much about them, I sure they will do their own things right; and Fedora should be maybe another thing, not just an fixed extension from Red Hat. That isn't much Freedom indeed. But... who put the money and the human resources? Uncle Red. Daniel From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 00:10:59 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:10:59 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0710071350l2062c7a5o4397b21b504a7414@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <13dbfe4f0710051116l37c74e63wbd69c3910bd46ea7@mail.gmail.com> <1191782316.4831.158.camel@Ulises> <13dbfe4f0710071350l2062c7a5o4397b21b504a7414@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1191975060.10798.109.camel@Ulises> El dom, 07-10-2007 a las 22:50 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH escribi?: > On 10/7/07, M Daniel R Magarzo wrote: > >>> The Fedora Project is something really special, it is even the engine > >>> of the linux community. > >> I do not think so, sincerely. I think that sentence goes two steps > >> forward from where it should reasonably. > > I wonder what new apps or feature I'm using recently which does not > have Fedora contributions. > Probably many of them... Sincerely, I don't see the relationship... I seriously believe that Fedora was and is (in its main features) a very very good distro. But what I'd never do is to measure its quality according a lonely factor, and lesser that. > > > Chitlesh, with all the respect for you and the Fedoda Artwork team, I > > must say that there are several distros where they much care its look. > > Some of them come with KDE by default, what means a more polished look > > (e.g. Suse). > > In my opinion, this is something that deserves RESPECT ! > My paragraph started mentioning it before anything, but said that.., everyone should be forced with themselves to say what they honestly consider true, their opinions, etc. and this should always prevail over silence (due to a false respect). Honest criticism is an essential part of a project. Do not confuse silence with respect, please. > > I'm a special case. I value quality/professional and hardwork before > appearance as you might surely deduce from now. > This attitude affects my movie/music selections up to my favorite distro. > I talked to various contributors of various distributions on various > open source events, but never saw something professional, for me to > say "wow" (only centos). I won't choose a distro just because of its > look, but rather how professional its contributors are. Neither do I. But many newbie people would do. Specially if they have not any prior reference. That's the question. All in all, I also value first the core over the "brands", since I know how to setup a system and its look. But please do not underestimate the value of appearance. Other distros don't do at all, and nobody grants that "a priori" a distro in particular must be necessarily better than another one. > > > You're right here too. I'm sure you are a good "ambassador" over there > > in the net, seriously. I can imagine you in those typical forum threads > > where the Ubuntu (Windows and other species) users generally end up > > crushing you. Into those arenas is where really users get worked up and > > can encourage to someone to try this one or that one distro. > > > No, I'm not that kind of person, I promote fedora in real life mainly. > > With a few minutes spent reading the threads one can automatically > deduce the weakness of the writer. Then you point to the right URL. > that's it ! :) > > However I'm not in the distro war, as I take fedora as the upstream of > other linux distributions, you might even see that on my blog > postings. > > Ok, I guess this discussion is going way off from its title. > > > Chitlesh > > -- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > Daniel From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 10 00:18:21 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 05:48:21 +0530 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191972751.10798.80.camel@Ulises> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <13dbfe4f0710051116l37c74e63wbd69c3910bd46ea7@mail.gmail.com> <1191782316.4831.158.camel@Ulises> <470929F7.4080606@fedoraproject.org> <1191791722.4831.245.camel@Ulises> <1191795997.9453.22.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1191972751.10798.80.camel@Ulises> Message-ID: <470C1A4D.1070201@fedoraproject.org> M Daniel R Magarzo wrote: >> > Yes, precisely it's quite the opposite... you fix stuff in order that > other distributions (aka Red Hat) don't have to do it; you do it for > them. > ...and that I wouldn't call "an identity sign", but almost necessity. I guess you don't have much of an idea of who is doing the work and regardless of who is doing it, the benefits is shared by everyone in the community including Red Hat but certainly not limited to it. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions for details. I see the necessity to capture the identity within the slogan but I don't see the identity itself being questioned. It has been established for a long time now. "Enterprise employees" are merely another kind of end users and Fedora shared a common base being the upstream though there are different strategies which should be immediately obviously to those who have actually used the different distributions. Rahul From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Wed Oct 10 10:01:57 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:01:57 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1191972751.10798.80.camel@Ulises> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <13dbfe4f0710051116l37c74e63wbd69c3910bd46ea7@mail.gmail.com> <1191782316.4831.158.camel@Ulises> <470929F7.4080606@fedoraproject.org> <1191791722.4831.245.camel@Ulises> <1191795997.9453.22.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1191972751.10798.80.camel@Ulises> Message-ID: <54530.192.54.193.51.1192010517.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Mer 10 octobre 2007 01:32, M Daniel R Magarzo a ?crit : > Red Hat is Red Ha, and I don't care much about them, I sure they will > do their own things right; and Fedora should be maybe another thing, > not just an fixed extension from Red Hat. Fedora inherited its core and past decisions from Red Hat. A lot of contributors and users chose Fedora because they liked this core (and Red Hat has been successful because this core is good). Should Fedora destroy its past just so you've less problems distinguishing between Fedora and Red Hat? I don't think so. Red Hat and Fedora are aligned on many things because both organisations like sound engineering. -- Nicolas Mailhot From mmcgrath at redhat.com Wed Oct 10 14:39:09 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:39:09 -0500 Subject: Spins vs official content Message-ID: <470CE40D.2030803@redhat.com> We're working to get the pages together for F8. Where should we put links to what things. We've got 2 click to live cd or torrent for the official content. And thats from fedoraproject.org. This is MUCH simpler then previous releases and can be done due to changes in mirrormanager. The question I have is where to put official spins. I'd like to put a link on the get fedora page that links to spins.fedoraproject.org to get the torrents from there. Concerns: 1) Keeping the get fedora page simple and clean 2) Brand dilution between official and non official spins 3) There could be 30, 50, 100 re-spins this time next year we just don't know. What does the marketing team think would be best for the get fedora page and the spins.fedoraproject.org page? -Mike From mmcgrath at redhat.com Wed Oct 10 14:52:38 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:52:38 -0500 Subject: Spins vs official content In-Reply-To: <470CE40D.2030803@redhat.com> References: <470CE40D.2030803@redhat.com> Message-ID: <470CE736.9080500@redhat.com> Mike McGrath wrote: > What does the marketing team think would be best for the get fedora > page and the spins.fedoraproject.org page? One thing to add to this, we're currently trying to expand the websites team, if any of you marketing people are interested and have good UI, HTML, CSS page design skills, join the websites list or stop by #fedora-websites. -Mike From hudsonman35 at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 17:53:36 2007 From: hudsonman35 at gmail.com (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:53:36 -0400 Subject: I want to know MORE about F8 and F9!!! Message-ID: I would like to know everything about the new features in Fedora 8 and what might appear in Fedora 9, please release some information so I can post it on my blog and other linux sites. Public Awareness is key to continuing success! Mark McLaughlin - linuxglobe.wordpress.com From duffy at redhat.com Wed Oct 10 19:42:03 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:42:03 -0400 Subject: Spins vs official content In-Reply-To: <470CE40D.2030803@redhat.com> References: <470CE40D.2030803@redhat.com> Message-ID: <470D2B0B.3070406@redhat.com> Mike McGrath wrote: > We're working to get the pages together for F8. Where should we put > links to what things. We've got 2 click to live cd or torrent for the > official content. And thats from fedoraproject.org. This is MUCH > simpler then previous releases and can be done due to changes in > mirrormanager. Wooo!!! Awesome!!! The question I have is where to put official spins. I'd > like to put a link on the get fedora page that links to > spins.fedoraproject.org to get the torrents from there. > > Concerns: > 1) Keeping the get fedora page simple and clean I think folks are going to be confused as to the difference between spins and actual "real" Fedora, right? Is the Fedora Desktop spin the "real" Fedora? Or is everything just a spin now? Would it be more confusing to have a "real" Fedora and then some spins, or no "real" Fedora everything is a spin? (See what I'm saying here?) Depending on that, I think is how the page should be laid out for F8. The page design/layout right now is I think built with an underlying assumption that there is one Fedora to get, right? So it probably needs be redesigned a bit. Here's the current flow: Get Fedora (there is only one to get?) => are you fast or slow? => How do you want to get it, bittorrent, mirrors, or network install? => oh my, there are actually a lot of choices i have to make here, fedora, arch, version #, etc.... overwhelming! E.g., to simplify, we're kinda saying: "what would you like to get?" => "how would you like to get it?" => "you weren't specific enough up front, really, what would you like to get?" => "here it is" I think we should try to say: "What would you like?" => "How would you like to get it?" => "Here it is." But when there are many choices to pick from for that first question :) It gets tricky. > 2) Brand dilution between official and non official spins Well... are non-official spins going to be linked off of there? > 3) There could be 30, 50, 100 re-spins this time next year we just > don't know. I think the ideal way to handle this is categorization. E.g., if we have say 5 spins for f8 (i don't know if that's the right number) then we just list them out all on one page. If for f9 we get say 30... just categorize them - that might be pushing the boundaries of how many you could have linked off of one page... it gets up to 100 for f10... have categories where you click on the category and are brought to a page with just the links for the spins only in that category. Well over 100 though and you're gonna want a directory and search engine. :) ~m From webpath at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 10 20:24:12 2007 From: webpath at fedoraproject.org (Karlie Robinson) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:24:12 -0400 Subject: I want to know MORE about F8 and F9!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <470D34EC.9080402@fedoraproject.org> Markus McLaughlin wrote: > I would like to know everything about the new features in Fedora 8 {SNIP} Public Awareness is key > to continuing success! Check http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/ Plus the search box in the top of the page is excellent. If it's something to know, it's in the Wiki and can be found with a quick search. Karlie From sankarshan.mukhopadhyay at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 02:10:26 2007 From: sankarshan.mukhopadhyay at gmail.com (Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:40:26 +0530 Subject: Spins vs official content In-Reply-To: <470CE40D.2030803@redhat.com> References: <470CE40D.2030803@redhat.com> Message-ID: <470D8612.9000608@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Mike McGrath wrote: > Concerns: > 1) Keeping the get fedora page simple and clean Nod - there's a fair chance of it getting cluttered. > 2) Brand dilution between official and non official spins Attempting to keep it simple leads to something like: - -> The download links for Fedora - -> Official Fedora Spins (where the definition of spins needs to be put in or, the spins given their own Fedora centric branding) - -> Other Fedora Spins [linking off to a separate page] > 3) There could be 30, 50, 100 re-spins this time next year we just > don't know. All the more nicer, but spins by their very nature would be drilling down into niche and nicher audiences :) so a listing by category perhaps would result eventually - -- You see things; and you say 'Why?'; But I dream things that never were; and I say 'Why not?' - George Bernard Shaw www.linkedin.com/in/sankarshan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHDYYSXQZpNTcrCzMRAs2JAJ45XIwE7LBiCM2SM8aNext1392WFgCeP7G6 4/SvEAY/rTf1Lbx8hAhrTKg= =5c76 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Thu Oct 11 05:40:32 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:40:32 +0800 Subject: Microsoft possibly to sue RedHat? Message-ID: <470DB750.30704@mwiriadi.id.au> http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2200717/microsoft-sharpens-aims-patent "People who use Red Hat, at least with respect to our intellectual property, in a sense have an obligation to compensate us," Ballmer said last week at a company event in London discussing online services in the UK. Is this going to affect Fedora indirectly? Regards, Marc From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Oct 11 05:46:51 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:46:51 +0300 Subject: I want to know MORE about F8 and F9!!! In-Reply-To: <470D34EC.9080402@fedoraproject.org> References: <470D34EC.9080402@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <470DB8CB.50802@nicubunu.ro> Karlie Robinson wrote: > Markus McLaughlin wrote: >> I would like to know everything about the new features in Fedora 8 >> {SNIP} Public Awareness is key >> to continuing success! > > Check http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/ > > Plus the search box in the top of the page is excellent. If it's > something to know, it's in the Wiki and can be found with a quick search. You can also subscribe to the development mailing list (or check its archives regularly) to stay in touch with the development. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 11 05:47:50 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:17:50 +0530 Subject: Microsoft possibly to sue RedHat? In-Reply-To: <470DB750.30704@mwiriadi.id.au> References: <470DB750.30704@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <470DB906.1060709@fedoraproject.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2200717/microsoft-sharpens-aims-patent > > "People who use Red Hat, at least with respect to our intellectual > property, in a sense have an obligation to compensate us," Ballmer said > last week at a company event in London discussing online services in the > UK. > > Is this going to affect Fedora indirectly? (Speaking for myself) We can only speculate on what is planned. Depends on whether this is marketing FUD or legal action, it can affect everyone involved and not just Fedora. Note the careful use of "People who use Red Hat" and not Red Hat itself. Also the comments were made in London and not U.S and that's important because different regions have difference laws on what constitutes false advertising. This one has the entire talk and you can see for yourself how well this plays into the Microsoft Novell patent deal earlier. http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_Scrambling_to_Explain_Ballmer_Comment_on_Red_Hat_Linux/1191963805 Some other relevant links http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/10/10/on-joe-on-patents/ http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2193713,00.asp http://www.press.redhat.com/2007/05/14/deploy-with-confidence/ Rahul From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Thu Oct 11 05:53:10 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:53:10 +0800 Subject: Microsoft possibly to sue RedHat? In-Reply-To: <470DB906.1060709@fedoraproject.org> References: <470DB750.30704@mwiriadi.id.au> <470DB906.1060709@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <470DBA46.2050009@mwiriadi.id.au> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2200717/microsoft-sharpens-aims-patent >> >> "People who use Red Hat, at least with respect to our intellectual >> property, in a sense have an obligation to compensate us," Ballmer >> said last week at a company event in London discussing online >> services in the UK. >> >> Is this going to affect Fedora indirectly? > > (Speaking for myself) > > We can only speculate on what is planned. Depends on whether this is > marketing FUD or legal action, it can affect everyone involved and not > just Fedora. Note the careful use of "People who use Red Hat" and not > Red Hat itself. Also the comments were made in London and not U.S and > that's important because different regions have difference laws on > what constitutes false advertising. > > This one has the entire talk and you can see for yourself how well > this plays into the Microsoft Novell patent deal earlier. > > http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_Scrambling_to_Explain_Ballmer_Comment_on_Red_Hat_Linux/1191963805 > > > Some other relevant links > > http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/10/10/on-joe-on-patents/ > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2193713,00.asp > http://www.press.redhat.com/2007/05/14/deploy-with-confidence/ > > Rahul > My understanding is that the UK would still have Trade Practices Law (I study it at uni atm) which would constitute Misleading conduct on Microsoft's behalf. It could also be construed as Defamatory or Libel since he is defaming RedHat before you couldn't really question it because he was labeling Linux users very broad. In this speech he singled out RedHat. I know you guys at RedHat Legal will look at it but yeah it was something I was shocked about when I read it. Cheers, Marc From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 11 06:07:31 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:37:31 +0530 Subject: Microsoft possibly to sue RedHat? In-Reply-To: <470DB906.1060709@fedoraproject.org> References: <470DB750.30704@mwiriadi.id.au> <470DB906.1060709@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <470DBDA3.1010109@fedoraproject.org> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Some other relevant links > > http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/10/10/on-joe-on-patents/ > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2193713,00.asp > http://www.press.redhat.com/2007/05/14/deploy-with-confidence/ One more http://www.crn.com.au/News/62849,red-hat-calm-in-face-of-microsofts-renewed-patent-claims.aspx Rahul From sankarshan.mukhopadhyay at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 06:11:26 2007 From: sankarshan.mukhopadhyay at gmail.com (Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:41:26 +0530 Subject: I want to know MORE about F8 and F9!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <470DBE8E.70806@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Markus McLaughlin wrote: > I would like to know everything about the new features in Fedora 8 and > what might appear in Fedora 9, please release some information so I > can post it on my blog and other linux sites. Public Awareness is key > to continuing success! Effectively you are looking for something along the lines of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/8/FeatureList. A quick search on the wiki and watching a few pages would allow you to keep track of changes besides reading the -devel list - -- You see things; and you say 'Why?'; But I dream things that never were; and I say 'Why not?' - George Bernard Shaw www.linkedin.com/in/sankarshan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHDb6OXQZpNTcrCzMRAjeMAJsEYT0rWO9zypoZktWU+6z8jhedVACcDSTj mVAuoOQlDOzk+sLKPE4jgTw= =tmfr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From crazymulgogi at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 07:33:52 2007 From: crazymulgogi at gmail.com (Herman Meester) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:33:52 +0200 Subject: Microsoft possibly to sue RedHat? In-Reply-To: <470DBA46.2050009@mwiriadi.id.au> References: <470DB750.30704@mwiriadi.id.au> <470DB906.1060709@fedoraproject.org> <470DBA46.2050009@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: 2007/10/11, Marc Wiriadisastra : > > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> > http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2200717/microsoft-sharpens-aims-patent > >> > >> "People who use Red Hat, at least with respect to our intellectual > >> property, in a sense have an obligation to compensate us," Ballmer > >> said last week at a company event in London discussing online > >> services in the UK. > >> > >> Is this going to affect Fedora indirectly? > > > > (Speaking for myself) > > > > We can only speculate on what is planned. Depends on whether this is > > marketing FUD or legal action, it can affect everyone involved and not > > just Fedora. Note the careful use of "People who use Red Hat" and not > > Red Hat itself. Also the comments were made in London and not U.S and > > that's important because different regions have difference laws on > > what constitutes false advertising. > > > > This one has the entire talk and you can see for yourself how well > > this plays into the Microsoft Novell patent deal earlier. > > > > > http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_Scrambling_to_Explain_Ballmer_Comment_on_Red_Hat_Linux/1191963805 > > > > > > Some other relevant links > > > > http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/10/10/on-joe-on-patents/ > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2193713,00.asp > > http://www.press.redhat.com/2007/05/14/deploy-with-confidence/ > > > > Rahul > > > My understanding is that the UK would still have Trade Practices Law (I > study it at uni atm) which would constitute Misleading conduct on > Microsoft's behalf. > > It could also be construed as Defamatory or Libel since he is defaming > RedHat before you couldn't really question it because he was labeling > Linux users very broad. In this speech he singled out RedHat. > > I know you guys at RedHat Legal will look at it but yeah it was > something I was shocked about when I read it. > > Cheers, > > Marc I?ve said it for over a year now, Red Hat should sue Microsoft for libel. It is important to understand that MS will not sue anyone. They have said so in internal documents that became public due to lawsuits against MS. Everything they say is meant to make potential open source customers feel uncomfortable about not using MS?stuff. I?d say RH has a very good chance of winning such a lawsuit. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 09:56:34 2007 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:56:34 +0800 Subject: I want to know MORE about F8 and F9!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <76e72f800710110256m6c3d6d23v21b926db8cb94ee1@mail.gmail.com> 2007/10/11, Markus McLaughlin : > I would like to know everything about the new features in Fedora 8 and > what might appear in Fedora 9, please release some information so I > can post it on my blog and other linux sites. Public Awareness is key > to continuing success! > Read release notes and FWN which will provide the most recent hot spot of news -- bbbush ^_^ From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 11 10:39:20 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:09:20 +0530 Subject: Fedora 8 Release Parties Message-ID: <470DFD58.8090001@fedoraproject.org> Hi If you organizing a release party for Fedora 8, list yourself at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseParties Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 11 11:10:39 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:40:39 +0530 Subject: Max Spevack's Ohio Linux Fest Keynote Talk Message-ID: <470E04AF.1000809@fedoraproject.org> Hi Just coincidentally noticed that this video is now available as a torrent. Have fun. http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//mspevack-ohio-linux-fest-2007.ogg.torrent Rahul From fzied at dottn.com Thu Oct 11 11:38:37 2007 From: fzied at dottn.com (Zied Fakhfakh) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:38:37 +0200 Subject: Fedora 8 Release Parties In-Reply-To: <470DFD58.8090001@fedoraproject.org> References: <470DFD58.8090001@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: Hi, We're planning to organise a release party, but we're wondering if the will be delays ? Zied. On 10/11/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > If you organizing a release party for Fedora 8, list yourself at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseParties > > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > -- Zied Fakhfakh Dot TN - CTO Centre Molka, Esc E, Bur 17 | Tel : +216 71 886112 El Manar II | Fax : +216 71 885499 2092 - Tunis | mob : +216 22 535604 Tunisia | web : http://www.dottn.com GPG Key : gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys D2F4EE8C -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 11 11:52:09 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:22:09 +0530 Subject: Fedora 8 Release Parties In-Reply-To: References: <470DFD58.8090001@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <470E0E69.8080800@fedoraproject.org> Zied Fakhfakh wrote: > Hi, > > We're planning to organise a release party, but we're wondering if the > will be delays ? The best thing for you to be doing is give some buffer time and organizing the release party say at the end of November so that you have less chances of being affected by a delay. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 11 17:18:46 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:48:46 +0530 Subject: Interested in a Fedora Marketing Meeting? Message-ID: <470E5AF6.8050407@fedoraproject.org> Hi Long long ago, we used to have regular marketing meetings which died down when Colin Charles went off to become MySQL community manager instead of doing his duty as the Fedora marketing lead ;-) but that is the past. Now that we have some good amount of interest in marketing Fedora, it might be a good time to start those meetings again, plan, schedule and DO important things. I was hoping we could do one coming Oct 13 Saturday whatever time that is preferable to folks and see what pans out. The agenda would be come up with a proper marketing plan ahead of the Fedora 8 release. Let me know who is interested and what time would be appropriate for you. Rahul From duffy at redhat.com Thu Oct 11 17:36:29 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:36:29 -0400 Subject: Interested in a Fedora Marketing Meeting? In-Reply-To: <470E5AF6.8050407@fedoraproject.org> References: <470E5AF6.8050407@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <470E5F1D.3090009@redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Long long ago, we used to have regular marketing meetings which died > down when Colin Charles went off to become MySQL community manager > instead of doing his duty as the Fedora marketing lead ;-) but that is > the past. > > Now that we have some good amount of interest in marketing Fedora, it > might be a good time to start those meetings again, plan, schedule and > DO important things. I was hoping we could do one coming Oct 13 Saturday > whatever time that is preferable to folks and see what pans out. The > agenda would be come up with a proper marketing plan ahead of the Fedora > 8 release. Let me know who is interested and what time would be > appropriate for you. +1 whenever on saturday is fine. sunday is bad for me. ~m From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu Oct 11 18:14:35 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:14:35 +0100 Subject: Interested in a Fedora Marketing Meeting? In-Reply-To: <470E5F1D.3090009@redhat.com> References: <470E5AF6.8050407@fedoraproject.org> <470E5F1D.3090009@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710111114ncdfa9cdi6b505f36ba70ed8c@mail.gmail.com> +1...I think anytime saturday will be good for me! Jon On 11/10/2007, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > > > Long long ago, we used to have regular marketing meetings which died > > down when Colin Charles went off to become MySQL community manager > > instead of doing his duty as the Fedora marketing lead ;-) but that is > > the past. > > > > Now that we have some good amount of interest in marketing Fedora, it > > might be a good time to start those meetings again, plan, schedule and > > DO important things. I was hoping we could do one coming Oct 13 Saturday > > whatever time that is preferable to folks and see what pans out. The > > agenda would be come up with a proper marketing plan ahead of the Fedora > > 8 release. Let me know who is interested and what time would be > > appropriate for you. > > +1 whenever on saturday is fine. sunday is bad for me. > > ~m > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From mmcgrath at redhat.com Thu Oct 11 18:33:15 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:33:15 -0500 Subject: Spins vs official content In-Reply-To: <470D2B0B.3070406@redhat.com> References: <470CE40D.2030803@redhat.com> <470D2B0B.3070406@redhat.com> Message-ID: <470E6C6B.6090703@redhat.com> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Mike McGrath wrote: >> We're working to get the pages together for F8. Where should we put >> links to what things. We've got 2 click to live cd or torrent for >> the official content. And thats from fedoraproject.org. This is >> MUCH simpler then previous releases and can be done due to changes in >> mirrormanager. > > Wooo!!! Awesome!!! > > The question I have is where to put official spins. I'd >> like to put a link on the get fedora page that links to >> spins.fedoraproject.org to get the torrents from there. >> >> Concerns: >> 1) Keeping the get fedora page simple and clean > > I think folks are going to be confused as to the difference between > spins and actual "real" Fedora, right? Is the Fedora Desktop spin the > "real" Fedora? Or is everything just a spin now? Would it be more > confusing to have a "real" Fedora and then some spins, or no "real" > Fedora everything is a spin? > We talked about this some last night on IRC, thought I'd bring some of this discussion back here. So there's 3 types of Fedora. 1) Official Fedora 2) Fedora Respins (with the Fedora name) 3) 3rd party Respins (without the Fedora name) Number 1) Will be on torrent.fedoraproject.org and the mirrors. We'll be linking to the DVD on torrent and the Live CD on the mirrors. It is my understanding this is the "Desktop Spin" Number 2) Will be on spins.fedoraproject.org. We'll have KDE, Developer, Electronic Lab initially. Possibly games if it gets approved in time but certainly this is a variable number and will continue to grow. Number 3) We can't link to, host, or even talk about because it might kill our kittens. To keep the get Fedora page simple, these are the number of non navigation links I count. 1) Public mirror list 2) An upgrades document list 3) i386 torrent DVD 4) x86_64 torrent DVD 5) ppc torrent DVD 6) i386 Live CD 7) x86_64 Live CD 8) spins.fedoraproject.org 9) torrent.fedoraproject.org As well as the links currently listed under "Slow Internet? No Internet?" Thoughts, comments? -Mike From jmbabich at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 18:55:36 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:55:36 +0300 Subject: Interested in a Fedora Marketing Meeting? In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710111114ncdfa9cdi6b505f36ba70ed8c@mail.gmail.com> References: <470E5AF6.8050407@fedoraproject.org> <470E5F1D.3090009@redhat.com> <3263b11b0710111114ncdfa9cdi6b505f36ba70ed8c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0710111155g7e6620b1u174b456df66af22c@mail.gmail.com> Good idea...see you on Saturday. John Babich From ivazqueznet at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 19:18:43 2007 From: ivazqueznet at gmail.com (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:18:43 -0400 Subject: Spins vs official content In-Reply-To: <470E6C6B.6090703@redhat.com> References: <470CE40D.2030803@redhat.com> <470D2B0B.3070406@redhat.com> <470E6C6B.6090703@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1192130323.3208.30.camel@ignacio.lan> On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 13:33 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > 3) 3rd party Respins (without the Fedora name) > Number 3) We can't link to, host, or even talk about because it might > kill our kittens. Not entirely true, viz. ccLive. > To keep the get Fedora page simple, these are the number of non > navigation links I count. > > 1) Public mirror list > 2) An upgrades document list > 3) i386 torrent DVD > 4) x86_64 torrent DVD > 5) ppc torrent DVD > 6) i386 Live CD > 7) x86_64 Live CD > 8) spins.fedoraproject.org > 9) torrent.fedoraproject.org > > As well as the links currently listed under "Slow Internet? No Internet?" PPC live media, plus it might be handy to have some sort of document/site/whatever explaining how to determine what arch you have. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Thu Oct 11 19:24:48 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:24:48 -0500 Subject: Spins vs official content In-Reply-To: <1192130323.3208.30.camel@ignacio.lan> References: <470CE40D.2030803@redhat.com> <470D2B0B.3070406@redhat.com> <470E6C6B.6090703@redhat.com> <1192130323.3208.30.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: <470E7880.8030207@redhat.com> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 13:33 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > >> 3) 3rd party Respins (without the Fedora name) >> > > >> Number 3) We can't link to, host, or even talk about because it might >> kill our kittens. >> > > Not entirely true, viz. ccLive. > That reminds me, how'd we get ccLive anyway? Those guys are asking me for an additional 35G of storage. Is that an official Fedora project or just something nice we're doing for the larger OSS community? -Mike From jkeating at j2solutions.net Thu Oct 11 19:36:43 2007 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (jkeating) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:36:43 -0400 Subject: Spins vs official content In-Reply-To: <470E7880.8030207@redhat.com> References: <470CE40D.2030803@redhat.com> <470D2B0B.3070406@redhat.com> <470E6C6B.6090703@redhat.com> <1192130323.3208.30.camel@ignacio.lan> <470E7880.8030207@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20071011153643.7a535e36@j2solutions.net> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:24:48 -0500 Mike McGrath wrote: > That reminds me, how'd we get ccLive anyway? Those guys are asking > me for an additional 35G of storage. Is that an official Fedora > project or just something nice we're doing for the larger OSS > community? Jack, and the Board. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jeremy.hogan at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 21:15:25 2007 From: jeremy.hogan at gmail.com (Jeremy Hogan) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:15:25 -0400 Subject: Microsoft possibly to sue RedHat? In-Reply-To: References: <470DB750.30704@mwiriadi.id.au> <470DB906.1060709@fedoraproject.org> <470DBA46.2050009@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <556f970a0710111415l7eee40gbb6b36b033fca9f1@mail.gmail.com> You can't sue them for libel, exactly, but you can preempt a suit by seeking a declaratory injunction that tell them to either hurry up and sue you (i.e. settle in court) or STFU. Veoh recently sued Universal for continually claiming Veoh was violating their copyrights. Red Hat did something similar to SCO (R.I.P. -- 2007) seeking a permanent injunction re: SCOs anti-Linux lies and two more seeking declarations that Red Hat violated neither copyright or trade law cases. This happened because SCO began harassing Red Hat customers in an attempt to collect license fees they were not owed. This was put on hold by the judge in lieu of the IBM/SCO case, but did seem to get SCO to lay off the public FUD and extortion attempts. M$ laid the ground work for this in their back alley deals with Novell, the subsequent (failed) attempt to get Red Hat and Ubuntu to likewise sell their souls, and before all that did a dry run with it in their transparent backing of SCO. So I doubt Red Hat is surprised and/or unprepared for this situation and we might see them preemptively sue M$. That is if you can prove anyone actually takes anything Ballmer says sincerely. :-D You do this to control the case (i.e. the best defense is a good offense) as well as establish a legal foundation to seek damages, but it also serves to win favor in the court of public opinion. --jeremy On 10/11/07, Herman Meester wrote: > > > > 2007/10/11, Marc Wiriadisastra : > > > > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >> http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2200717/microsoft-sharpens-aims-patent > > > > >> > > >> "People who use Red Hat, at least with respect to our intellectual > > >> property, in a sense have an obligation to compensate us," Ballmer > > >> said last week at a company event in London discussing online > > >> services in the UK. > > >> > > >> Is this going to affect Fedora indirectly? > > > > > > (Speaking for myself) > > > > > > We can only speculate on what is planned. Depends on whether this is > > > marketing FUD or legal action, it can affect everyone involved and not > > > just Fedora. Note the careful use of "People who use Red Hat" and not > > > Red Hat itself. Also the comments were made in London and not U.S and > > > that's important because different regions have difference laws on > > > what constitutes false advertising. > > > > > > This one has the entire talk and you can see for yourself how well > > > this plays into the Microsoft Novell patent deal earlier. > > > > > > http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_Scrambling_to_Explain_Ballmer_Comment_on_Red_Hat_Linux/1191963805 > > > > > > > > > > > Some other relevant links > > > > > > http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/10/10/on-joe-on-patents/ > > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2193713,00.asp > > > http://www.press.redhat.com/2007/05/14/deploy-with-confidence/ > > > > > > Rahul > > > > > My understanding is that the UK would still have Trade Practices Law (I > > study it at uni atm) which would constitute Misleading conduct on > > Microsoft's behalf. > > > > It could also be construed as Defamatory or Libel since he is defaming > > RedHat before you couldn't really question it because he was labeling > > Linux users very broad. In this speech he singled out RedHat. > > > > I know you guys at RedHat Legal will look at it but yeah it was > > something I was shocked about when I read it. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Marc > > > I?ve said it for over a year now, Red Hat should sue Microsoft for libel. > It is important to understand that MS will not sue anyone. They have said > so in internal documents that became public due to lawsuits against MS. > Everything they say is meant to make potential open source customers feel > uncomfortable about not using MS?stuff. > I?d say RH has a very good chance of winning such a lawsuit. > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 11 22:13:40 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 03:43:40 +0530 Subject: Spins vs official content In-Reply-To: <470E6C6B.6090703@redhat.com> References: <470CE40D.2030803@redhat.com> <470D2B0B.3070406@redhat.com> <470E6C6B.6090703@redhat.com> Message-ID: <470EA014.3020607@fedoraproject.org> Mike McGrath wrote: >> > We talked about this some last night on IRC, thought I'd bring some of > this discussion back here. So there's 3 types of Fedora. > > 1) Official Fedora > 2) Fedora Respins (with the Fedora name) > 3) 3rd party Respins (without the Fedora name) Atleast in the docs project, we stopped using the word official and instead use formal for various reasons but even that can be avoided here. 1) Fedora respins 2) Fedora community (or custom) respins 3) Third party respins > Number 2) Will be on spins.fedoraproject.org. We'll have KDE, > Developer, Electronic Lab initially. Possibly games if it gets approved > in time but certainly this is a variable number and will continue to grow. I thought KDE was going to be retained as 1) until the spins infrastructure is proven out. > Number 3) We can't link to, host, or even talk about because it might > kill our kittens. This we need to decide by a case by case basis. Some respins certainly can be linked to and even actively promoted. Rahul From tw2113 at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 22:16:34 2007 From: tw2113 at gmail.com (Michael Beckwith) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:16:34 -0500 Subject: Interested in a Fedora Marketing Meeting? In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0710111155g7e6620b1u174b456df66af22c@mail.gmail.com> References: <470E5AF6.8050407@fedoraproject.org> <470E5F1D.3090009@redhat.com> <3263b11b0710111114ncdfa9cdi6b505f36ba70ed8c@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0710111155g7e6620b1u174b456df66af22c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9b437e950710111516w5dccdde2g614d91a91e634161@mail.gmail.com> I have plenty of time most days, so I'll probably be around -- ~Michael http://ridleytx.structed.net (for now) http://www.michaelbox.net (eventually) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Thu Oct 11 23:54:03 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 07:54:03 +0800 Subject: Interested in a Fedora Marketing Meeting? In-Reply-To: <470E5AF6.8050407@fedoraproject.org> References: <470E5AF6.8050407@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <470EB79B.3090202@mwiriadi.id.au> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Long long ago, we used to have regular marketing meetings which died > down when Colin Charles went off to become MySQL community manager > instead of doing his duty as the Fedora marketing lead ;-) but that is > the past. > > Now that we have some good amount of interest in marketing Fedora, it > might be a good time to start those meetings again, plan, schedule and > DO important things. I was hoping we could do one coming Oct 13 > Saturday whatever time that is preferable to folks and see what pans > out. The agenda would be come up with a proper marketing plan ahead of > the Fedora 8 release. Let me know who is interested and what time > would be appropriate for you. > > Rahul > Very interested just take into account I live in Australia :) +8 GMT or +8 UTC. Cheers, Marc From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 12 02:32:07 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 08:02:07 +0530 Subject: Interested in a Fedora Marketing Meeting? In-Reply-To: <470EB79B.3090202@mwiriadi.id.au> References: <470E5AF6.8050407@fedoraproject.org> <470EB79B.3090202@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <470EDCA7.9020903@fedoraproject.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> > Very interested just take into account I live in Australia :) +8 GMT or > +8 UTC. I don't think we can find a ideal time for everyone involved but is this ok? http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2007&month=10&day=13&hour=2&min=0&sec=0&p1=1038&p2=43&p3=22 Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 12 02:46:10 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 08:16:10 +0530 Subject: The FOSS Project Marketing HowTo: Start At Home Message-ID: <470EDFF2.5010107@fedoraproject.org> Hi Essentially a compared between different distribution websites including Fedora and suggestions on how to improve it to market the distribution better. There is room for improvements here. http://blue-gnu.biz/content/foss_project_marketing_howto_start_home Rahul From david at gnsa.us Fri Oct 12 03:52:08 2007 From: david at gnsa.us (David Nalley) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:52:08 -0400 Subject: The FOSS Project Marketing HowTo: Start At Home In-Reply-To: <470EDFF2.5010107@fedoraproject.org> References: <470EDFF2.5010107@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <470EEF68.7070403@gnsa.us> Very interesting, I especially found the lack of contact information poignant. On the front page of our fp.o (which I admit I rarely visit) I saw the Communicate, and the content was more about integrating one's self into a community, and no way to real contact information - esp from a marketing position. I suppose that many would talk to Max or Gregdek, but that assumes a lot of previously held information. I only fear that whatever contact point is listed will be besieged by new users with questions/problems. Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Essentially a compared between different distribution websites > including Fedora and suggestions on how to improve it to market the > distribution better. There is room for improvements here. > > http://blue-gnu.biz/content/foss_project_marketing_howto_start_home > > Rahul > From thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com Fri Oct 12 04:51:23 2007 From: thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com (susmit shannigrahi) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:21:23 +0530 Subject: Microsoft possibly to sue RedHat? In-Reply-To: <556f970a0710111415l7eee40gbb6b36b033fca9f1@mail.gmail.com> References: <470DB750.30704@mwiriadi.id.au> <470DB906.1060709@fedoraproject.org> <470DBA46.2050009@mwiriadi.id.au> <556f970a0710111415l7eee40gbb6b36b033fca9f1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: [Fowarded from ilug-cal] http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20071011205044141 "Patent Infringement Lawsuit Filed Against Red Hat & Novell - Just Like Ballmer Predicted" -- Regards, Susmit. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ssh 0x86DD170A http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SusmitShannigrahi From duffy at redhat.com Fri Oct 12 05:27:00 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 01:27:00 -0400 Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> References: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> Message-ID: <470F05A4.8010009@redhat.com> Hi folks, Let's get this over with and get a final logo, okay? I went through all the feedback and came up with the following set of 5 logos for final consideration, including proposals from Francesco Fantoni, Nicu Buculei, and myself: http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos-final.png Which should be *the* logo? Which fits the Fedora 'feel' or 'brand' the best? ~m p.s. the font used in all of them is MgOpen Modata, licensed under the Open Font License. ;-) From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 12 05:32:01 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:02:01 +0530 Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <470F05A4.8010009@redhat.com> References: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> <470F05A4.8010009@redhat.com> Message-ID: <470F06D1.9080007@fedoraproject.org> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hi folks, > > Let's get this over with and get a final logo, okay? > > I went through all the feedback and came up with the following set of 5 > logos for final consideration, including proposals from Francesco > Fantoni, Nicu Buculei, and myself: > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos-final.png > > Which should be *the* logo? Which fits the Fedora 'feel' or 'brand' the > best? 1 is distinctive but the faces look childish. I like 2 although the blue seems smeared over the "n". Rahul From prasad.dhanakodi at yahoo.co.in Fri Oct 12 05:49:00 2007 From: prasad.dhanakodi at yahoo.co.in (D Prasad Balaji) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 06:49:00 +0100 (BST) Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <470F06D1.9080007@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <439763.87875.qm@web94101.mail.in2.yahoo.com> I like the Logo 2 Rahul Sundaram wrote: M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hi folks, > > Let's get this over with and get a final logo, okay? > > I went through all the feedback and came up with the following set of 5 > logos for final consideration, including proposals from Francesco > Fantoni, Nicu Buculei, and myself: > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos-final.png > > Which should be *the* logo? Which fits the Fedora 'feel' or 'brand' the > best? 1 is distinctive but the faces look childish. I like 2 although the blue seems smeared over the "n". Rahul -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list Best Regards, D Prasad Balaji Hyderabad +91 99496 97464 --------------------------------- Now you can chat without downloading messenger. Click here to know how. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From prasad.dhanakodi at yahoo.co.in Fri Oct 12 05:49:08 2007 From: prasad.dhanakodi at yahoo.co.in (D Prasad Balaji) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 06:49:08 +0100 (BST) Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <470F06D1.9080007@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <223941.27067.qm@web94108.mail.in2.yahoo.com> I like the Logo 2 Prasad Dhanakodi Rahul Sundaram wrote: M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hi folks, > > Let's get this over with and get a final logo, okay? > > I went through all the feedback and came up with the following set of 5 > logos for final consideration, including proposals from Francesco > Fantoni, Nicu Buculei, and myself: > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos-final.png > > Which should be *the* logo? Which fits the Fedora 'feel' or 'brand' the > best? 1 is distinctive but the faces look childish. I like 2 although the blue seems smeared over the "n". Rahul -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list Best Regards, D Prasad Balaji Hyderabad +91 99496 97464 --------------------------------- Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. Click here to know how. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Fri Oct 12 06:44:56 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 07:44:56 +0100 Subject: Interested in a Fedora Marketing Meeting? In-Reply-To: <470EDCA7.9020903@fedoraproject.org> References: <470E5AF6.8050407@fedoraproject.org> <470EB79B.3090202@mwiriadi.id.au> <470EDCA7.9020903@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710112344s7fd66802sb0e98f5f8ba396a6@mail.gmail.com> >http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2007&month=10&day=13&hour=2&min=0&sec=0&p1=1038&p2=43&p3=22 > Heh, it's possible I'll be awake at 2am! No problem though...would be cool if somebody posts the log and/or summarises what goes on. Best wishes, Jon > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 12 07:08:53 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:38:53 +0530 Subject: Interested in a Fedora Marketing Meeting? In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710112344s7fd66802sb0e98f5f8ba396a6@mail.gmail.com> References: <470E5AF6.8050407@fedoraproject.org> <470EB79B.3090202@mwiriadi.id.au> <470EDCA7.9020903@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710112344s7fd66802sb0e98f5f8ba396a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <470F1D85.2030809@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2007&month=10&day=13&hour=2&min=0&sec=0&p1=1038&p2=43&p3=22 >> > > Heh, it's possible I'll be awake at 2am! No problem though...would be > cool if somebody posts the log and/or summarises what goes on. Which location are you in? What time ranges would be comfortable? Rahul From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Fri Oct 12 07:50:25 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 08:50:25 +0100 Subject: Interested in a Fedora Marketing Meeting? In-Reply-To: <470F1D85.2030809@fedoraproject.org> References: <470E5AF6.8050407@fedoraproject.org> <470EB79B.3090202@mwiriadi.id.au> <470EDCA7.9020903@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710112344s7fd66802sb0e98f5f8ba396a6@mail.gmail.com> <470F1D85.2030809@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710120050v33f425e5he46fd6a8487dc9be@mail.gmail.com> On 12/10/2007, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Jonathan Roberts wrote: > >> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2007&month=10&day=13&hour=2&min=0&sec=0&p1=1038&p2=43&p3=22 > >> > > > > Heh, it's possible I'll be awake at 2am! No problem though...would be > > cool if somebody posts the log and/or summarises what goes on. > > Which location are you in? What time ranges would be comfortable? GMT, but I think it usually makes things tricky for everyone else! Here's the timetable: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=13&month=10&year=2007&p1=1038&p2=43&p3=22&p4=136 Maybe something like this would work: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2007&month=10&day=13&hour=18&min=0&sec=0&p1=1038&p2=43&p3=22&p4=136 But if somebody else can't make it, don't worry as I'm happy to read through logs etc and then can post to list any thoughts I have (if any)... Best, Jon > > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 12 08:05:20 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:35:20 +0530 Subject: Fedora Marketing Meeting Sat Oct 13 UTC 11 AM Message-ID: <470F2AC0.5080908@fedoraproject.org> Hi Scheduled meeting time. Hopefully that's more acceptable to most people. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2007&month=10&day=13&hour=11&min=0&sec=0&p1=1038&p2=43&p3=152&p4=136 Rahul From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Oct 12 09:26:42 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:26:42 +0800 Subject: Interested in a Fedora Marketing Meeting? In-Reply-To: <470EDCA7.9020903@fedoraproject.org> References: <470E5AF6.8050407@fedoraproject.org> <470EB79B.3090202@mwiriadi.id.au> <470EDCA7.9020903@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1192181202.9072.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-10-12 at 08:02 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> > > Very interested just take into account I live in Australia :) +8 GMT or > > +8 UTC. > > I don't think we can find a ideal time for everyone involved but is this ok? > > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2007&month=10&day=13&hour=2&min=0&sec=0&p1=1038&p2=43&p3=22 > > Rahul > That would be fine no issue for me. It's 10am so it's all good :) Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Oct 12 09:32:14 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:32:14 +0800 Subject: Fedora Marketing Meeting Sat Oct 13 UTC 11 AM In-Reply-To: <470F2AC0.5080908@fedoraproject.org> References: <470F2AC0.5080908@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1192181534.9072.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-10-12 at 13:35 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Scheduled meeting time. Hopefully that's more acceptable to most people. > > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2007&month=10&day=13&hour=11&min=0&sec=0&p1=1038&p2=43&p3=152&p4=136 > > Rahul I'll be there as well :) Sorry for the double post relating to time. Cheers, Marc From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Oct 12 10:21:58 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:21:58 +0300 Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <223941.27067.qm@web94108.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <470F06D1.9080007@fedoraproject.org> <223941.27067.qm@web94108.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0710120321m6b6593f0o989bebc04578049b@mail.gmail.com> On 10/12/07, D Prasad Balaji wrote: > I like the Logo 2 > I prefer Logo 3 since it has some depth, yet it is clean and would make a nice t-shirt (IMHO). John Babich Fedora Ambassador From hisham.imam at gmail.com Fri Oct 12 12:53:39 2007 From: hisham.imam at gmail.com (Hisham Abdel-Magid) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:53:39 +0300 Subject: Fedora Marketing Meeting Sat Oct 13 UTC 11 AM In-Reply-To: <1192181534.9072.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <470F2AC0.5080908@fedoraproject.org> <1192181534.9072.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <59e007ed0710120553u23fc929k957f895c79086d1a@mail.gmail.com> is the meeting will be in #fedora-meeting channel on Freenode? On 10/12/07, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-10-12 at 13:35 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > > > Scheduled meeting time. Hopefully that's more acceptable to most people. > > > > > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2007&month=10&day=13&hour=11&min=0&sec=0&p1=1038&p2=43&p3=152&p4=136 > > > > Rahul > > I'll be there as well :) Sorry for the double post relating to time. > > Cheers, > > Marc > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Eng. Hisham Isam M. Abdel-Magid Fedora Ambassador in Sudan, Dept. of Shelter & Physical Development (DSPD) Institute for Technological Research (ITR) National Center for Research (NCR) Ministry of Science and Technology (MOST) P.O.Box 2404 Khartoum Sudan Mobile: +249 122 007 122 E.mail: himam at fedoraproject.org wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HishamAbdelMagid -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 12 13:29:42 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:59:42 +0530 Subject: Fedora Marketing Meeting Sat Oct 13 UTC 11 AM In-Reply-To: <59e007ed0710120553u23fc929k957f895c79086d1a@mail.gmail.com> References: <470F2AC0.5080908@fedoraproject.org> <1192181534.9072.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <59e007ed0710120553u23fc929k957f895c79086d1a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <470F76C6.8070501@fedoraproject.org> Hisham Abdel-Magid wrote: > is the meeting will be in #fedora-meeting channel on Freenode? > #fedora-mktg on Freenode. We will decide the future timings and channel in this meeting. Rahul From paulds at bu.edu Fri Oct 12 15:52:41 2007 From: paulds at bu.edu (Paul Stauffer) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:52:41 -0400 Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0710120321m6b6593f0o989bebc04578049b@mail.gmail.com> References: <470F06D1.9080007@fedoraproject.org> <223941.27067.qm@web94108.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <9d2c731f0710120321m6b6593f0o989bebc04578049b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071012155241.GC20312@jadzia.bu.edu> On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 01:21:58PM +0300, John Babich wrote: > I prefer Logo 3 since it has some depth, yet it is clean and would > make a nice t-shirt (IMHO). First of all, nice work, Mo. I also prefer #3. It looks a lot cleaner to me than #2 with the shading, and I think it would be better suited to use in a wider array of contexts. I think #5 also looks very professional and has some good potential, but see my comments below. Regarding #1 and #5, the semi-official naming standard for these events has been of the form "FUDCon $location $year", ie "FUDCon Boston 2007", "FUDCon London 2005", "FUDCon LinuxTag 2007". We should avoid abbreviations like "'07", and if the logo is to include provisions for the year, it should likewise make room for the location. #5 could probably accommodate this fairly easily. Related to the logo discussion, it has occurred to me in the past that we've been extremely inconsistent with our use of capitalization of "fudcon". These logos all use "fudcon", the subject line of this e-mail thread uses the more common "FUDCon", and googling around will turn up official and semi-official uses of "FudCon", "FUDcon", and "FUDCON" as well. We really need to decide once and for all how we spell this thing before we codify a particular form in a logo. :) Personally, I think the logos look pretty good with "fudcon", but up until now, I think the clear leader in use has been "FUDCon", which thus has the weight of historical precedent. Also, since the name is short for "_F_edora _U_sers and _D_evelopers _Con_ference", it could be argued that it makes some logical sense to capitalize it in this way. I have no strong religious opinion on the matter, but I think we should decide what the standard usage will be, and then use it consistently across all our materials. Opinions? Would these logos look weird/dumb with some capital letters stuck in there? If we stick with the form "FUDCon", would it look better in a more horizontal logo like #5? cheers, - Paul -- Paul Stauffer Manager of Research Computing Computer Science Department Boston University From marketing-list at fedoralinks.org Fri Oct 12 15:49:07 2007 From: marketing-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:49:07 -0500 Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> References: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> Message-ID: <470F9773.8050708@fedoralinks.org> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hey folks, > > What do you think about designing an official FUDcon logo to be used at > FUDcons all over the world? > > Some ideas of similarly-used logos: > > - BarCamp: > - http://barcamp.org/LogoGallery <= so many!!!! > > - Red Hat Summit: (each of these is more complex i think but you see the > common logo across them as well) > - New Orleans 2005 http://www.redhat.com/g/landing/Sum05BricksTop.jpg > - Nashville 2006 > http://www.redhat.com/f/summitfiles/presentation/images/interface_01.jpg > - San Diego 2007 > http://www.redhat.com/g/summit/2007/summit07_highlights_bg.png > > Any ideas? Anyone have other examples of event logos they've seen used > this way we could look at? > > ~m > I like 2, but honestly 3 or 4 are going to be cheaper/easier to get screen printed on shirts or other media. Robert 'Bob' Jensen Fedora Unity Project From duffy at redhat.com Fri Oct 12 18:54:12 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:54:12 -0400 Subject: Explaining Spins Message-ID: <470FC2D4.5080809@redhat.com> Hey folks, So I posted some of the recent mockups I did for spins.fpo [1] and I got a lot of food for the diagram at the top of the front page: ====== from anonymous: "Why not just use words that have some meaning that people will understand? (Is there some association I'm supposed to have for "Spin"?) "What's the relationship between these "Official Spins"? Does the "Electronics Lab" not have a desktop? Why would I not just get the "Official Desktop Spin" and install the electronics programs I need? (I've never found a Linux distro set-of-programs like this that was at all useful. Nobody uses all the Electronics programs in Fedora. People use one or two, along with desktop apps, and some developer tools, and so on.) "Who's the intended audience for each half of this? Developers? Electronics developers with big headphones? My grandparents? I'm more confused about Fedora than I was 5 minutes ago. :/" ======= from Jef: "I don't think the graphic banner really explains what a spin is. It explains the process of putting the spin together, but I don't really think it illustrates what a spin is in terms of its usefulness as a consumable. To me, the most salient reason for users to care about spins has to be the live nature of them. Collections of software put together with love and care and a sense of style so that you can taste a gourmet selection from the Fedora software buffet, without "installing" the operating system. Spins are gourmet appetizers designed to make you hungry for more Fedora. "To me, each Spin is a hand passed platter of hors'odors, laid out on the serving platter in a way so that that platter is enticing to particular subsets of party goers who've just walled into the front door of Fedora's Rocking Global Party. "And I'm just not sure that the graphic banner captures the fundamental appetizing nature of Spins. " ============ So I think to address this: 1) The graphic we have now should be the banner for the 'make your own spin' page (as of yet unmocked up but referenced in the mocks. it explains the process well but does not explain what a spin is. 2) We need to come up with a better graphic for the front page to explain what a spin is. Jef came up with a great metaphor in his post - chefs. One idea for the graphic based on that: 'spins are customized versions of fedora lovingly put together by community members to appeal to specific tastes" and we could show 4 different people in different chefs outfits, each with a fedora cd on a silver platter with some paraphenalia related to the spin's domain and a little notecard on the platter saying 'electronics studio spin' (with wires and circuit boards on the platter) 'art studio spin' (with paint and brushes on the platter), etc. Another idea to keep more with the "spins" "remix" and "DJ" kind of terminology: 'spins are like a custom mix tape or DJ set of software available in fedora, lovingly remixed and put together by community members to appeal to specific tastes' and have 3-4 djs with headphones on at the turntables, with music notes and floating paraphenalia associated with the spin, maybe a banner hanging down from each dj table stating what spin it is. What do you folks think? Any other ideas for illustrating quickly what a Fedora spin is? ~m [1] http://mihmo.livejournal.com/47315.html From lloyd.fedora at gmail.com Sat Oct 13 08:38:26 2007 From: lloyd.fedora at gmail.com (Lloyd A) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 12:38:26 +0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature In-Reply-To: <1191796066.4831.288.camel@Ulises> References: <3032ee5e0710061647l1aa77850oae096a5baf87472e@mail.gmail.com> <47085F66.80202@prodigy.net.mx> <1191774824.4831.47.camel@Ulises> <1191796066.4831.288.camel@Ulises> Message-ID: <8744a11e0710130138y7a2818d6y5a660c778735709@mail.gmail.com> Im a little late in the disscussion but just wanted to add some Fedora: More than just Freedom Fedora: Freedom to operate Fedora: Powered by Freedom Lloyd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Oct 13 10:20:44 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 15:50:44 +0530 Subject: Reminder: Fedora Marketing Meeting Message-ID: <47109BFC.509@fedoraproject.org> Hi Within an hour at #fedora-mktg in Freenode to talk about the final marketing plan for Fedora 8. Hope on and let's discuss. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2007&month=10&day=13&hour=11&min=0&sec=0&p1=1038&p2=43&p3=152&p4=136 Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Oct 13 10:23:02 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 15:53:02 +0530 Subject: Explaining Spins In-Reply-To: <470FC2D4.5080809@redhat.com> References: <470FC2D4.5080809@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47109C86.4030500@fedoraproject.org> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Another idea to keep more with the "spins" "remix" and "DJ" kind of > terminology: > > 'spins are like a custom mix tape or DJ set of software available in > fedora, lovingly remixed and put together by community members to appeal > to specific tastes' and have 3-4 djs with headphones on at the > turntables, with music notes and floating paraphenalia associated with > the spin, maybe a banner hanging down from each dj table stating what > spin it is. > > What do you folks think? Any other ideas for illustrating quickly what a > Fedora spin is? I think we reused this analogy already and we should continue to promote that. http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/05/31/remixing-fedora-7/ Rahul From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Oct 13 19:38:47 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:38:47 +0300 Subject: Marketing Meeting 2007-10-13 IRC Log Message-ID: <9d2c731f0710131238o3a19bfb4u649d9ece1e49c802@mail.gmail.com> < mether> ok < mether> so we can start the meeting now < jmbuser_> JohnBabich < mether> RahulSundaram < Strikeforce> Up to you guys just thought I was late or something :) < mether> no we have been starting slowly so that people can join in < Strikeforce> no worries < mether> who else is around? -->|fcrippa (n=fcrippa at 83.225.161.4) has joined #fedora-mktg < mether> i was hoping mizmo would be < mether> but she seems to be not available in irc yet < mether> here is the list of things I think we should be doing for the Fedora 8 release < mether> Artwork - Labels, banners, promos that we can run on the website etc < mether> Identify which features to highlight - We have a good number of them and we should figure out any two or three features that are important < mether> and promote them specifically < Strikeforce> When you say artwork you mean in F8 or on the website? same for Labels, Banners, promos. < mether> in the website < mether> not within the distribution < mether> that work is already done < mether> the organized focus on interviewing developers going through all the Fedora 8 features isn't over yet but it is clearly very successful < mether> pretty much of them have been referred to from many websites including digg, lwn.net, osnews.com. lxer etc < mether> except the first one where we didnt highlight digg properly all of them got several hundreds digg's and hit the front page * couftunes in < mether> the website needs some clean up < mether> especially on the download page < mether> and Mo has been working on designing the spins section < mether> we will have http://spins.fedoraproject.org shortly < mether> which will explain what a spin is, list out all the different spins of Fedora, identify how to do your own custom spins etc < mether> check out http://mihmo.livejournal.com/47056.html for that < mether> http://mihmo.livejournal.com/47315.html < couf> download page is being redsigned as well, see http://ivazquez.fedorapeople.org/files/fedora-web/get-fedora.html for an example idea < mether> i think we should look closely < mether> at what OpenSUSE and Ubuntu is doing in this space < mether> I find a list of links to be overwhelming compared to what they have done < Strikeforce> Ubuntu has the basic Gnome/KDE and XFCE and then a server version < Strikeforce> x86 and x86_64 < Strikeforce> so they would have 8 downloads < Strikeforce> maybe if it started with gnome -> x86 or x86_64 then the links < mether> we have a choice of spins, dvd or cd. arch, installation methods < mether> I think http://software.opensuse.org/ is pretty neat < Strikeforce> I would have to agree < mether> One thing that we one additional choice that we need to figure how we can present well < mether> is the differentiation between < mether> official and custom spins < Strikeforce> Should we link them to the front page? < mether> I think what we need to do < Strikeforce> Would it not be better to say see what the community is doing -> and point them that way < mether> is list only the official spins in the front page < mether> and link to http://spins.fedoraproject.org < mether> for more < mether> front page as in the download page -->|MrTom (n=mrtom at fedora/MrTom) has joined #fedora-mktg < couf> mether: +1 < mether> if we do it well < mether> we don't have to worry about pushing in whatever spins that come up < MrTom> 'Hi, sorry for being VERY late) < mether> I am working on a games, xfce and minimalistic spin < mether> so I have more than a passive interest in this < mether> MrTom: hi < mether> welcome < couf> so we have the official spins on download + a "interested in a Fedora remix -> check spins.fp.o" link < mether> MrTom: http://pastebin.ca/735157 for you to catch up to previous conversations < MrTom> thanks mether < Strikeforce> mether: +1 < mether> couf: right. that's what I think we should do anyway < mether> I have submitted a request to infrastructure team < mether> to setup a news site at news.fedoraproject.org < mether> it might only be launched after Fedora 8 but it will be a important medium for highlighting the work that goes on into Fedora and getting some feedback early in the development process < Strikeforce> +1 again < Strikeforce> Was going to bring that up :) < mether> I am an editor for Fedora Weekly News and Fedora Release Notes and a beat writer for the Ask Fedora and Overview beats respectively < mether> all those are part of our broad marketing efforts too < mether> Infrastructure request is detailed at https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/178 < mether> if you think I have missed out any details in there, drop comments in that request or let me know < mether> everyone who has a Fedora Account can just post comments right away < couf> mether: you see news.fp.o as a replacement for what was going on at fedoranews.org? < mether> The overview section is at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/OverView < mether> yes < mether> fedoranews.org would ideally redirect to news.fp.o < mether> the weekly news is already integrated with the Fedora website < couf> right, then we should get tchung on that ticket < mether> I have posted to fedora weekly news < mether> and discussed this extensively < mether> with tchung both on and offlist < couf> ah okay, cool < mether> so he is already well aware < mether> fedora news list for more details < Strikeforce> Should f.o offer howto's specific to fedora? < mether> not sure what you mean by that? < Strikeforce> Well there seem to be a lot of questions on equivalents and what to install what not to install. Generally there are websites that guide people yet we seem to lack some of that documentation. < Strikeforce> equivalents = xmms / winamp type of thing < mether> The only reason we lack any published documents that we need to have < mether> is lack of contributors getting involved < mether> other than that, we only cover what we directly include < Strikeforce> I know with the wiki I created based on ubuntuguide is getting a heap of hits for some really basic information < mether> there isn't any reason we couldn't have more information on the wiki < mether> published documentation at docs.fp.o has the advantage < mether> that it well translated < mether> and more organized < mether> but wiki can be used to coordinate that effort and generally used as a sandbox < mether> some short howto's can remain in the wiki itself < mether> one example would be http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ScreenCasting < mether> if you prefer the wiki, just write down the content there and anyone interested in organizing it more and publishing it can pick it up from there < couf> right, we might want to add a howto-section to docs.fp.o < Strikeforce> I didn't know about docs.fp.o can we link that to the front page. Is there also a way to get feedback to fedora-docs on what users are struggling with? < mether> its already there in the front page < mether> for a few months now < mether> ever since we launched the new static website < Strikeforce> ahh mine goes straight to the wiki thats why. My bad. < mether> posting to fedora-docs list or better yet offering to help would be nice |<--nihed1 has left freenode (Connection timed out) < mether> Fedora Documentation team is already aware that we are missing documentation but that won't magically appear without people spending time on it < JonRob> yeah docs need all the volunteers they can get! < Strikeforce> I write little howto's so might do that since I'd be adding them to my site as well as fedora. < JonRob> (hey all) < mether> JonRob: hi < Strikeforce> JonRob: hi < mether> I am not much of a marketing expert so I have been noting down details on what Red Hat did with the RHEL 5 launch and learning from that < couf> Strikeforce: drop a note to fedora-docs and/or join in the meeting tomorrow -->|nihed1 (n=ikanawa at 41.224.209.109) has joined #fedora-mktg < Strikeforce> That website that you emailed to marketing was an interesting read. I think it'll help in providing focus. < mether> which website? < Strikeforce> Is there a way that we can get people's ideas to the fedoraproject < mether> depending on what this is < mether> different sub project mailing lists or bugzilla would be avenues < mether> for specific things we need feedback on < mether> we have been running surveys before < mether> the results are available in the wiki < mether> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Surveys < Strikeforce> Could it be something we link with fedoraforum to get the people that don't participate in mailling lists < mether> as you can note < mether> its been a while < mether> so we might run it once more shortly after < mether> Fedora 8 launch < mether> I think we should do that < mether> the forum, irc etc is linked from http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate < Strikeforce> I would like a list of areas where people struggle "website, marketing, docs" a range of stuff that we can allocate priority to. < mether> which again is linked from the front page < mether> like i said we could run a generic survey < Strikeforce> Try to understand where our 'customers' find frustration < mether> do you have other ideas? < Strikeforce> One question < Strikeforce> Is it illegal in the USA to change an mp3 -> ogg? < Strikeforce> Since you can buy mp3's online from vendors < mether> it isn't illegal < mether> but you need a encoder and a decoder < mether> installed < mether> to do that < Strikeforce> Fedora don't offer that? < mether> and doing such kind of media decoding < mether> from one lozzy format to another < mether> is going to result in loss of quality < mether> we can't offer either by default, no < Strikeforce> Trying to come up with ideas on how to combat the mp3 issue < mether> are you aware of codec buddy? < Strikeforce> Yeah < mether> i think it solves that problem -->|llaumgui_ (n=llaumgui at cro34-2-82-226-153-125.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #fedora-mktg |<--llaumgui has left freenode (Remote closed the connection) < Strikeforce> Yeah it does definitely < mether> and we are working with Red Hat Legal to potentially link to rpmfusion < mether> as a alternative to Fluendo codecs < mether> for users from regions that don't enforce software patents < mether> anything else that we need to look at specifically for Fedora 8? < Strikeforce> Are we able to get numbers of installations to see if we are marketing well enough and graph it? < mether> yes that is ongoing work at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics < mether> and we are discussing with other distributions to adopt smolt < mether> if they do that, it would be even more helpful < mether> towards understanding users < mether> and helping solve some of the problems < mether> in addition to merely tracking some metrics < Strikeforce> I agree. < mether> OpenSUSE 10.3 already includes Smolt < mether> and they have been evaluating integration by default < mether> we are also discussing it with Mandriva and Ubuntu |<--fcrippa has left freenode (Remote closed the connection) < Strikeforce> That's good to hear. < mether> if you have contacts in other distributions < mether> talk to them < mether> there is a lot of development coordination that is possible too < mether> system-config-printer is included by default in the upcoming Ubuntu version for example < mether> JonRob: still there? < Strikeforce> That's good to hear. < jmbuser_> +1 < mether> we are going to be using hosted.fedoraproject.org for all the system-config* tools so that the source isnt just in the srpms < mether> thats the plan anyway < Strikeforce> Apologies to all I have to leave right now have a birthday party to attend. I've signed up with doc's at the moment will send an introduction letter later on. < mether> see ya < mether> if anyone else have other ideas that we need to discuss, let me know < JonRob> mether: yeah sorry < JonRob> but i do have to dash again shortly :S turns out not such a good time for me! < mether> JonRob: it's ok. I just wanted to know how the interviews are progressing < JonRob> Strikefoce: bye! < JonRob> mether: yeah not bad...i've got transifex to go up this coming week < JonRob> and i'm waiting for answers about pulse audio < JonRob> which i may try and chase up (politely) < JonRob> beyond that i need to get more questions sent out now < mether> ya, he has been busy < mether> what about the interview with chitlesh goorah < JonRob> yeah i appreciate that - really appreciate the time all the developers have given! think it's been worth it thoguh :D < JonRob> yeah transifex < JonRob> is ready to go this week < mether> electronics lab spin < couf> transifex = dimitris glezos? < mether> yes < mether> dimitris has submitted a talk proposal in a conference in India which is likely to get accepted btw < JonRob> oh lol yes sorry! < mether> in December < JonRob> i'm getting my head in a spin here today < JonRob> electronics lab is also ready to go :D < mether> great < JonRob> mether: cool about dimitris... < JonRob> other features i really want to cover: < JonRob> codec buddy < JonRob> firewall config < JonRob> oh man and my mind is blank again < JonRob> well they're two good targets for the next few < mether> right -->|DanseMakabre (i=pat at gandalf.ds5.agh.edu.pl) has joined #fedora-mktg < mether> i think we can keep going post release too < mether> but these two features < mether> can be published about before the release itself < mether> if possible < JonRob> yes definitely < JonRob> it might be cool to put together a summary article too < mether> yes < JonRob> covering all the features with quotes from the devs etc < mether> i think that should be a pdf file < JonRob> and then try and get that posted around in the same way as the interviews < mether> benefits/features < JonRob> but save that for close to the release < JonRob> yeah pdf would be good < mether> right < mether>I will start working on that < JonRob> ok cool < mether> what else is needed? < couf> release announcement? < mether> yeah, documentation team has been taking care of that so far < mether> and I am all for letting that continue < mether> if we can get more organized documentation < JonRob> yeah they do a good job with it < mether> for creating spins < mether> that would be good < mether> from the marketing perspective we really need that < JonRob> oh shoot - my apologies for that - i had volunteered to do that sometime ago < mether> for spins.fp.o < JonRob> but i've just run out of itme < couf> JonRob: no prob, we've all got busy lives < mether> if anyone wants to look into again, please do. < JonRob> what i got so far is on the docs project wiki space < JonRob> i think what would be most useful is a really simple break down though < mether> yep < JonRob> at least for the immediate future < mether> ok < mether> anything else or shall we wind up now? < JonRob> http://revisor.fedoraunity.org/documentation < JonRob> fedora unity have done a pretty good job themselves actually < JonRob> we should at least point to that somehwere < mether> one of the problems < mether> is that documentation on spins < mether> is very much scattered < mether> all over the place < mether> fedora unity docs can be copied < mether> directly < mether> the license is the same < mether> FYI < JonRob> ok cool - wel maybe if we add their documentation to the docs.fp.org < JonRob> ? < JonRob> with a bit of editing? < mether> we should < JonRob> maybe this is more a matter for docs team to discuss? < mether> that would be about an hour of work < mether> to clean it up < mether> merge it with the existing docs in the wiki < mether> and publish it < JonRob> shall i post to the docs list about this? < mether> I have added tons of references to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CustomSpins < mether> yes < couf> JonRob: can you make the docs-meeting tomorrow? (17UTC) < JonRob> let them know what we've said? < mether> go ahead < JonRob> couf: probably not :S < mether> post to the list < couf> JonRob: yeah okay, no worries < mether> needn't wait for the meeting < mether> --- meeting over --- From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Oct 13 20:08:37 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 23:08:37 +0300 Subject: New Meeting Minute Format Message-ID: <9d2c731f0710131308q120f17aep2770c39851a9247a@mail.gmail.com> I am trying a new meeting minutes format for the Fedora Marketing meetings, based on the Fedora Docs Steering Commitee procedure. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Meetings/Minutes and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20071013. The HTML version of the IRC uses a clever Python script call irclog2html.py. Unfortunately, I had to use Chatzilla, instead of my usual IRC client, so I was unable to capture the timestamp. Let me know what you all think of it. If we like it, I will clean up the rest of the pages in this section. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Sat Oct 13 23:34:48 2007 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 19:34:48 -0400 Subject: New Meeting Minute Format In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0710131308q120f17aep2770c39851a9247a@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0710131308q120f17aep2770c39851a9247a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1192318488.6963.4.camel@kennedy> On Sat, 2007-10-13 at 23:08 +0300, John Babich wrote: > I am trying a new meeting minutes format for the Fedora Marketing > meetings, based on the Fedora Docs Steering Commitee procedure. > > See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Meetings/Minutes and > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20071013. > > The HTML version of the IRC uses a clever Python script call irclog2html.py. Looks good, though I would suggest keeping the irc logs in a separate location instead of in the wiki (mainly so it doesn't screw with the wiki's search function). For FESCo, I've been keeping the irc logs in my space at fedaorapeople.org, and putting a link to it in my meeting summaries. /B -- Brian Pepple http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BrianPepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 14 00:37:55 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 02:37:55 +0200 Subject: Explaining Spins In-Reply-To: <470FC2D4.5080809@redhat.com> References: <470FC2D4.5080809@redhat.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0710131737s7c38a44m99208b0fc748a7f@mail.gmail.com> I'll try to answer the question "who should use Fedora Electronic Lab ?" in a few paragraphs. Fedora Electronic Lab are a set of packages intended for electronics! FOR FEDORA 8, Fedora Electronic Lab targets mainly microelectronics. On 10/12/07, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > ====== from anonymous: > > "What's the relationship between these "Official Spins"? Does the > "Electronics Lab" not have a desktop? Why would I not just get the > "Official Desktop Spin" and install the electronics programs I need? > (I've never found a Linux distro set-of-programs like this that was at > all useful. Nobody uses all the Electronics programs in Fedora. People > use one or two, along with desktop apps, and some developer tools, and > so on.) > > "Who's the intended audience for each half of this? Developers? > Electronics developers with big headphones? My grandparents? If anyone has installed Fedora 8 from any SPIN he/she can ultimately installed Fedora Electronic Lab packages afterwards via yum/pirut. Fedora Electronic Lab packages are listed on : http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/FedoraElectronicLab http://clunixchit.blogspot.com This is the beauty of Fedora, that is having ONE BIG RPM repository by default. Thus facilitating the life of any fedora user. Surely no one will use ALL the FEL packages at once, because microelectronics is too vast: There are at least tools for * backend engineering * physical design engineering * circuit simulation * ..... One will use simulation tools with respect to at least one of the above fields. But those using FEL packages will need to have a minimum of knowledge in microelectronics. So if one's parents or granparents want to use FEL packages he/she are free to do so but the way they will use them will depend on their knowledge. Nevertheless, there are many reasons why FEL is important: * simplify fedora users life, simple and quick installation of electronic packages * many upstream packages were forced to improve or corrected (+ included automated installation) * simplified the integration of FEL packages in other distributions * interoperability between packages * 7 extras standard cells up to a feature size of 0.13?m * more than 200 MB of spice decks simulated with gnucap/ngspice * a marketing medium for upstream * acts as a get-together of electronic engineers to improve FEL platform/packages under Fedora .. (the list goes on)... * is another _real_ use of linux among engineers chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 21:33:21 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:33:21 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <470C09CA.8040201@fedoraproject.org> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <1191775036.4831.50.camel@Ulises> <47093540.4070104@kanarip.com> <1191969397.10798.41.camel@Ulises> <470C09CA.8040201@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1192397601.3784.142.camel@Ulises> El mi?, 10-10-2007 a las 04:37 +0530, Rahul Sundaram escribi?: > > This is serious hand waving. Debian has a non-free repository hosted by > Debian. Fedora does not. Of course! Fedora leaves that "work" to other "partners" whom have nothing to do with it. E.g., what most people mostly love from Fedora is the Livna repository. Daniel From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 21:41:59 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:41:59 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <54530.192.54.193.51.1192010517.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <13dbfe4f0710051116l37c74e63wbd69c3910bd46ea7@mail.gmail.com> <1191782316.4831.158.camel@Ulises> <470929F7.4080606@fedoraproject.org> <1191791722.4831.245.camel@Ulises> <1191795997.9453.22.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1191972751.10798.80.camel@Ulises> <54530.192.54.193.51.1192010517.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1192398119.3784.148.camel@Ulises> El mi?, 10-10-2007 a las 12:01 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot escribi?: > Le Mer 10 octobre 2007 01:32, M Daniel R Magarzo a ?crit : > > > Red Hat is Red Ha, and I don't care much about them, I sure they will > > do their own things right; and Fedora should be maybe another thing, > > not just an fixed extension from Red Hat. > > Fedora inherited its core and past decisions from Red Hat. A lot of > contributors and users chose Fedora because they liked this core (and > Red Hat has been successful because this core is good). Should Fedora > destroy its past just so you've less problems distinguishing between > Fedora and Red Hat? I don't think so. > I didn't mean that. Please, advice the adjetive into my paragraph: "fixed" extension. Anyhow, forget my words, it's not important... > Red Hat and Fedora are aligned on many things because both > organisations like sound engineering. > They are in its right. OK. End of discussion. > -- > Nicolas Mailhot > Daniel From jkeating at j2solutions.net Sun Oct 14 21:44:49 2007 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (jkeating) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 17:44:49 -0400 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1192397601.3784.142.camel@Ulises> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <1191775036.4831.50.camel@Ulises> <47093540.4070104@kanarip.com> <1191969397.10798.41.camel@Ulises> <470C09CA.8040201@fedoraproject.org> <1192397601.3784.142.camel@Ulises> Message-ID: <20071014174449.11752944@j2solutions.net> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:33:21 +0200 M Daniel R Magarzo wrote: > E.g., what most people mostly love from Fedora is the Livna > repository. That's a pretty bold statement and I can't fathom a method for you to actually prove it. If this were really true, they wouldn't use Fedora at all, they would use something else that has this software already in it or easier to obtain. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From devrim at CommandPrompt.com Sun Oct 14 21:56:14 2007 From: devrim at CommandPrompt.com (Devrim =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=DCND=DCZ?=) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:56:14 -0700 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1192397601.3784.142.camel@Ulises> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <1191775036.4831.50.camel@Ulises> <47093540.4070104@kanarip.com> <1191969397.10798.41.camel@Ulises> <470C09CA.8040201@fedoraproject.org> <1192397601.3784.142.camel@Ulises> Message-ID: <1192398974.12497.89.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, On Sun, 2007-10-14 at 23:33 +0200, M Daniel R Magarzo wrote: > E.g., what most people mostly love from Fedora is the Livna > repository. Livna has been the only repository that broke my Fedora installation with the mplayer (and related) packages it has. -- Devrim G?ND?Z PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, ODBCng - http://www.commandprompt.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 22:00:12 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 00:00:12 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <470C1A4D.1070201@fedoraproject.org> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <13dbfe4f0710051116l37c74e63wbd69c3910bd46ea7@mail.gmail.com> <1191782316.4831.158.camel@Ulises> <470929F7.4080606@fedoraproject.org> <1191791722.4831.245.camel@Ulises> <1191795997.9453.22.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1191972751.10798.80.camel@Ulises> <470C1A4D.1070201@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1192399212.3784.164.camel@Ulises> El mi?, 10-10-2007 a las 05:48 +0530, Rahul Sundaram escribi?: > > I guess you don't have much of an idea of who is doing the work and > regardless of who is doing it, the benefits is shared by everyone in the > community including Red Hat but certainly not limited to it. Probably you're right here. > I see the necessity to capture the identity within the slogan but I > don't see the identity itself being questioned. It has been established > for a long time now. > How curious! Just the opposite from I'd see both issues... :-) Well, anyhow it was a pleasure to try to give my sincere opinion, my thoughts and -to sum up..., the way I see things; I'm sure they were well received and valued ;-) Daniel From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 22:08:47 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 00:08:47 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <20071014174449.11752944@j2solutions.net> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <1191775036.4831.50.camel@Ulises> <47093540.4070104@kanarip.com> <1191969397.10798.41.camel@Ulises> <470C09CA.8040201@fedoraproject.org> <1192397601.3784.142.camel@Ulises> <20071014174449.11752944@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <1192399727.3784.169.camel@Ulises> El dom, 14-10-2007 a las 17:44 -0400, jkeating escribi?: > > If this were really true, they wouldn't use Fedora at all, they would > use something else that has this software already in it or easier to > obtain. > Why not? It's easier to put a vendaje over your eyes than digest the reality fro some people.. The last is harder indeed. Daniel From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 22:24:59 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 00:24:59 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <47094FEE.8040308@fedoraproject.org> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <13dbfe4f0710051116l37c74e63wbd69c3910bd46ea7@mail.gmail.com> <1191782316.4831.158.camel@Ulises> <470929F7.4080606@fedoraproject.org> <1191791722.4831.245.camel@Ulises> <47094FEE.8040308@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1192400699.3784.182.camel@Ulises> El lun, 08-10-2007 a las 03:00 +0530, Rahul Sundaram escribi?: > > What are you doing to help? Just waving a big flag doesn't change anything. > Personally, I firmly think that there are no much things around _so_ strong in order to promote a "weird" O.S. for most common people, AKA Linux, than "wearing it" permanently from a very common person, without fascination nor "big flags", without pompousness nor flattery, without "Linux Install Parties", without ambassadors (sounds to me a bit like "commercial" sellers..), without being an 2nd grade I.T. student, without evangelisms nor talibanisms, etc, etc.. In the other hand, I won't -as you will probably guess- list here any medal, not even suggest about its mere existence. Nevertheless, I remember you that contributing to the Open Source movement can be done in multiple ways, and you'll agree that the Fedora Project is no more than a very restricted area of it. For me, collaboration for Linux in general is very different than involving severely with a distribution in particular, since for the last one you must believe completely in that, being 100% interested in that (for any reason), to have enough time, etc. Who is convinced about this project in particular, don't worry that he/she will do without asking. Said that.., what happens if somebody is doing nothing for helping? Does it denies "per se" the right to the constructive criticism? No. Most of the people that use computers daily in a common/regular way won't do anything for any "computing" community into their whole life. They _just_ use computers (from time to time, sometimes some minutes a day, etc...). Actually, I'm not into this group (as regards ways of behaviour), but I would perfectly..(as regards computing for me is, at the most, secondary). So what..? Are you going to tell/"ask" that phrase to everyone that is coming newbie to Linux, or to Fedora, during the next years? > > It's possible. One read so much info throughout the weeks.. > > It was just a comment I read.. You seem uncomfortable with it. > > If sometime I find where it was, I promise that you will be the first I > > will tell it.:-) > > I am uncomfortable with people spreading misinformation, yes. > Yeah! ...and specially with people that you know that, by telling his opinion freely, has nothing to loose here, in this business. I'm not from Red Hat (not an aspiring either..), I do not belong to the I.T. engineering world, I'm not even a fanatic of computing and computers.., I'm just a common man that when sitting down for a while in order to make a task or whatever, is always facing a Linux as O.S., no more (no less...). > > A strange colour for a skin, not? Maybe Fedora (=Teodora, Dorotea) is > > ill. > > It's not a skin color. It is the color for a distribution. Very > different things. > Worrying.. There is a thing called humour, this sometimes includes games such as double sense words, etc. Fedora _was_ from ages, still is, and _will be_ forever, and over the rest of things (take note)... a name of woman. That's the basis. That was precisely the trick. > > Maybe like the freedom to use typical RH hats but in blue? What a > > paradoxical! > > It is part of a brand. Fedora's brand is explicitly different from > others. The name, logo and colors are part of it. > :-) You forget the money that comes from Red Hat, the main sponsor. > > In relation with "consolidate your replies", please let me know if there > > is a only email that lacks of sense or not written seriously. > > When you are replying to many mails, consolidate the replies. Dozens of > mails one after another as a answer for a week's worth of mails is not > very courteous to people reading those mails. Just common netiquette. > There was just eight emails, not "dozens". Since you didn't take the trouble to count them..., just eight in total and that taking part in different threads. The question is why you have talked about "dozens", maybe for some reason they seemed dozens to you... ;-) Let's think that they were just bothering you, from the first to the last. Since they were (or tried to be) serious, don't talk _you_ to me about netiquette..., I can smell the bad behaviour, the interested behaviour, and bad intention from someone from miles away. I've seen between folks many complains about netiquette with the years, but this is the first time that I see that someone is complaining about 8 fu***** emails into a very very low-traffic list, just incredible! Even them won't be enough to enliven it. In respect to accusing me because of the delay in my interventions... just ridiculous, since that IMO would be applicable to another situations, where people is really in a hurry for solving some personal problem or doubt, usually about hardware and/or software.. In addition, the majority of the threads where I put some reply actually were opened long time ago and I simply included thoughts, ideas, etc... not solutions to end up the thread. The rest (2 or 3) were just clarifications where NOBODY had replied several days after. Man, let me tell you the true I perceive: real criticism make you feel really uncomfortable. Bad issue.. You should learn something from this, but I doubt it. > Rahul > Daniel From simon at simline.de Mon Oct 15 07:09:20 2007 From: simon at simline.de (JoergSimon) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:09:20 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1192400699.3784.182.camel@Ulises> References: <47094FEE.8040308@fedoraproject.org> <1192400699.3784.182.camel@Ulises> Message-ID: <200710150909.20219.simon@simline.de> Am Montag, 15. Oktober 2007 00:24:59 schrieb M Daniel R Magarzo: > Man, let me tell you the true I perceive: real criticism make you feel > really uncomfortable. > Bad issue.. > You should learn something from this, but I doubt it. > Daniel M Daniel R Magarzo, critic is welcome, but you are unkind and not constructive, please do me a favor, unsubscribe. Good bye! -- J?rg Simon jsimon at fedoraproject.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon Key Fingerprint: 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Mon Oct 15 09:33:15 2007 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:33:15 +0200 Subject: Looking for Fedora merchandise for Fedora promotion Message-ID: <471333DB.3020109@hhs.nl> Hi All, I guess / hope some of you now me. For those on this list who don't here is a short intro I'm an active Fedora contributer, maintaining over 150 packages. Currently I'm working on integrating all of the Planet CCRMA audio packages into Fedora. I'm also a lecturer in computer science for a Dutch University. In our Computer Science we do a lot of things with Free Software and specifically with Fedora. In our last year students do 2 large projects of a 1/2 year each, and I'm one of the teachers who give assignments for these projects. Thus we do many Fedora (and other free software) related projects. The autodownloader package used by quake3, vavoom and others for example is created by our students. So are the avr microprocessor and gp2x handheld console toolchain packages which are in Fedora now. Unfortunately we are currently experiencing a lack of students interested in Computer Science in the Netherlands. Therefore on our next open university day we are going to have a big Free Software booth to promote all the open source work we do, as this is one of the most prominent things we do which clearly differentiates us from other Computer Science studies in the surrounding area. Since we do a lot with and somethings for Fedora we would also like to give Fedora a prominent place there, so I'm looking for things like T-shirts, but also things like maybe a big blue flag with the Fedora logo on it etc. I know the Fedora have stuff like this, so I have 2 questions: 1) Can we get / buy "stuff" like this? 2) If the answer to 1 is yes, how / where and how must will it cost? Many Thanks & Regards, Hans From jlgaddis at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 15 09:52:52 2007 From: jlgaddis at fedoraproject.org (Jeremy L. Gaddis) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 05:52:52 -0400 Subject: Looking for Fedora merchandise for Fedora promotion In-Reply-To: <471333DB.3020109@hhs.nl> References: <471333DB.3020109@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <536fdec90710150252h229fd353xa373e4eaa124b9d5@mail.gmail.com> On 10/15/07, Hans de Goede wrote: > Since we do a lot with and somethings for Fedora we would also like to give > Fedora a prominent place there, so I'm looking for things like T-shirts, but > also things like maybe a big blue flag with the Fedora logo on it etc. I know > the Fedora have stuff like this, so I have 2 questions: > 1) Can we get / buy "stuff" like this? > 2) If the answer to 1 is yes, how / where and how must will it cost? Not a whole lot there, but a starting point might be http://redhat.brandfuelstores.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=37 -- Jeremy L. Gaddis http://www.jeremygaddis.com/ From wolfy at nobugconsulting.ro Mon Oct 15 10:06:41 2007 From: wolfy at nobugconsulting.ro (Manuel Wolfshant) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:06:41 +0300 Subject: Looking for Fedora merchandise for Fedora promotion In-Reply-To: <536fdec90710150252h229fd353xa373e4eaa124b9d5@mail.gmail.com> References: <471333DB.3020109@hhs.nl> <536fdec90710150252h229fd353xa373e4eaa124b9d5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47133BB1.6010005@nobugconsulting.ro> Jeremy L. Gaddis wrote: > On 10/15/07, Hans de Goede wrote: > >> Since we do a lot with and somethings for Fedora we would also like to give >> Fedora a prominent place there, so I'm looking for things like T-shirts, but >> also things like maybe a big blue flag with the Fedora logo on it etc. I know >> the Fedora have stuff like this, so I have 2 questions: >> 1) Can we get / buy "stuff" like this? >> 2) If the answer to 1 is yes, how / where and how must will it cost? >> > > Not a whole lot there, but a starting point might be > http://redhat.brandfuelstores.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=37 > > And http://www.cafepress.com/fedoraproject From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Mon Oct 15 09:51:14 2007 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:51:14 +0200 Subject: Looking for Fedora merchandise for Fedora promotion In-Reply-To: <536fdec90710150252h229fd353xa373e4eaa124b9d5@mail.gmail.com> References: <471333DB.3020109@hhs.nl> <536fdec90710150252h229fd353xa373e4eaa124b9d5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47133812.6010901@hhs.nl> Jeremy L. Gaddis wrote: > On 10/15/07, Hans de Goede wrote: >> Since we do a lot with and somethings for Fedora we would also like to give >> Fedora a prominent place there, so I'm looking for things like T-shirts, but >> also things like maybe a big blue flag with the Fedora logo on it etc. I know >> the Fedora have stuff like this, so I have 2 questions: >> 1) Can we get / buy "stuff" like this? >> 2) If the answer to 1 is yes, how / where and how must will it cost? > > Not a whole lot there, but a starting point might be > http://redhat.brandfuelstores.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=37 > Hmm, I was on FOSDEM earlier this year and there Fedora Blue T-shirts with the Fedora-logo and "Fedora" as text on them were being sold, much nicer then the ones from the store you pointed to IMHO. Where did those come from? Thanks & Regards, Hans From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 15 10:51:30 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:21:30 +0530 Subject: Looking for Fedora merchandise for Fedora promotion In-Reply-To: <47133812.6010901@hhs.nl> References: <471333DB.3020109@hhs.nl> <536fdec90710150252h229fd353xa373e4eaa124b9d5@mail.gmail.com> <47133812.6010901@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <47134632.3000208@fedoraproject.org> Hans de Goede wrote: > Hmm, > > I was on FOSDEM earlier this year and there Fedora Blue T-shirts with > the Fedora-logo and "Fedora" as text on them were being sold, much nicer > then the ones from the store you pointed to IMHO. Where did those come > from? For many events, ambassadors produce locally and sell merchandise's to meet costs. Rahul From simon at simline.de Mon Oct 15 10:54:13 2007 From: simon at simline.de (JoergSimon) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:54:13 +0200 Subject: Looking for Fedora merchandise for Fedora promotion In-Reply-To: <471333DB.3020109@hhs.nl> References: <471333DB.3020109@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <200710151254.20637.simon@simline.de> Am Montag, 15. Oktober 2007 11:33:15 schrieb Hans de Goede: > I know the Fedora have stuff like this, so I have 2 questions: > 1) Can we get / buy "stuff" like this? > 2) If the answer to 1 is yes, how / where and how must will it cost? Sure we know you ;-) i would suggest that you contact a Ambassador near you. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList He is able to request material and support you http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/GetStuff/Tracker Cheers Joerg -- J?rg Simon jsimon at fedoraproject.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon Key Fingerprint: 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Oct 15 11:15:21 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:15:21 +0800 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <1192399727.3784.169.camel@Ulises> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <1191775036.4831.50.camel@Ulises> <47093540.4070104@kanarip.com> <1191969397.10798.41.camel@Ulises> <470C09CA.8040201@fedoraproject.org> <1192397601.3784.142.camel@Ulises> <20071014174449.11752944@j2solutions.net> <1192399727.3784.169.camel@Ulises> Message-ID: <47134BC9.9020702@mwiriadi.id.au> M Daniel R Magarzo wrote: > El dom, 14-10-2007 a las 17:44 -0400, jkeating escribi?: > > >> If this were really true, they wouldn't use Fedora at all, they would >> use something else that has this software already in it or easier to >> obtain. >> >> > Why not? > It's easier to put a vendaje over your eyes than digest the reality fro > some people.. > The last is harder indeed. > > Daniel > > Do you seriously think that the only reason people install Fedora is because of Livna. That thought is ludicrous Livna is an addon repository that supports non-free software. While not degrading what they do since some contribute to Fedora as a whole. They do not create the distribution at all. The majority of the distribution is created by people who work for RedHat (I think) a lot also from the community. The fact that Ubuntu has bigger numbers is due in part to the fact that it is easier to install than Fedora although that is changing. They also offer non-free software as default. I'm not to sure about PCLinuxOS but they are making a charge. One thing that Fedora does which is similar in nature to Debian is that 'we' are the base for other distro's. Ubuntu get there software from Debian. We are the equivalent to Debian. The big difference is that we are totally non-free in the sense that no repositories that are under the control of Fedora have non-free software. That is a bold statement and one that deserves credit. Fedora takes opensource software and improves it and takes it to another level. Make no mistake if Fedora didn't exist the world would be worse off. While Fedora can go down the path of offering non-free software I think I would be disheartened by this action and to me Fedora would lose what it stands for. Fedora is making significant contributions to the opensource community in ways that should be advertised a lot more. I for one have a lot of respect for the devs that contribute and while there are problems the dev's work hard and with little respect or thanks from the community. The other fact is people say that well most of the devs are employed. I didn't know Rahul or Jesse's job entailed working 7 days a week late at night all the time. These guy's go above and beyond what the average person does such is their love for the distribution. I was talking about it the other day I would hate having a job in the opensource industry because I would probably lose my family because I would work on it at work and then head home and work on it again. My family would hate me. (I suck at time management) Above all your criticism is welcome but your opinions should be tempered with respect for the people that give you a product that is FREE and they (the devs) strive hard to improve it. While it may not be perfect they are doing the best that they can and helping them improve it is more helpful than saying what you product sucks I'm going to Livna. Every new kernel I test out the wireless iwl3945 driver to see if its improved on my laptop. It hasn't got the range as what the ipw3945 driver does however I'm hopeful that it's fixed in F8. The reason I test it is so I can offer feedback to the devs who strive hard to fix the issues. Spend a bit of time on the fedora-devel list to see how active they all are and you might understand why I support this distro so much. I have tested a heap of different versions of linux but overall I have stuck with Fedora since Fedora Core 1 because it was noticeable that overall the people cared about what they did. It was like a badge of honour that they put out a quality product. Thanks Marc From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 15 11:26:59 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:26:59 +0300 Subject: Looking for Fedora merchandise for Fedora promotion In-Reply-To: <47133BB1.6010005@nobugconsulting.ro> References: <471333DB.3020109@hhs.nl> <536fdec90710150252h229fd353xa373e4eaa124b9d5@mail.gmail.com> <47133BB1.6010005@nobugconsulting.ro> Message-ID: <47134E83.60404@nicubunu.ro> Manuel Wolfshant wrote: >> On 10/15/07, Hans de Goede wrote: >>> the Fedora have stuff like this, so I have 2 questions: >>> 1) Can we get / buy "stuff" like this? >>> 2) If the answer to 1 is yes, how / where and how must will it cost? >> > And http://www.cafepress.com/fedoraproject A trick would be to create your own CafePress store, get some nice Fedora graphics (they are all around if you know how to look), design your own stuff and buy from your store, at no profit. The downsides: the designs offered by CafePress are limited, the quality not great and the shipping price to Europe high. Of course, there are similar sites in Europe like http://www.spreadshirt.net/ (damn! they don't list Romania either...) where even the quality of the product seems better. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From webpath at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 15 13:28:42 2007 From: webpath at fedoraproject.org (Karlie Robinson) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:28:42 -0400 Subject: Looking for Fedora merchandise for Fedora promotion In-Reply-To: <47134E83.60404@nicubunu.ro> References: <471333DB.3020109@hhs.nl> <536fdec90710150252h229fd353xa373e4eaa124b9d5@mail.gmail.com> <47133BB1.6010005@nobugconsulting.ro> <47134E83.60404@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <47136B0A.4090603@fedoraproject.org> Nicu Buculei wrote: >> And http://www.cafepress.com/fedoraproject > > A trick would be to create your own CafePress store, get some nice > Fedora graphics (they are all around if you know how to look), design > your own stuff and buy from your store, at no profit. You can also order supplies from places like http://www.dharmatrading.com/transfers/ (I'm sure there are other sources) and use your ink jet printer to make something that's similar to what you'd get at Cafe Press. From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 15 14:39:22 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:39:22 +0300 Subject: Explaining Spins In-Reply-To: <470FC2D4.5080809@redhat.com> References: <470FC2D4.5080809@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47137B9A.8060807@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > So I posted some of the recent mockups I did for spins.fpo [1] and I got > a lot of food for the diagram at the top of the front page: > > [1] http://mihmo.livejournal.com/47315.html This remind me somehow of Linux Personas [1], the site made by Microsoft to identify and categorize Linux users (which was discontinued shortly after it made the news). Maybe we can learn a bit from MS and define some "personas" and which is the best spin for each persona. note: I may have the .swf somewhere in a cache... [1] - http://picasaweb.google.com/nicubunu/Screenshots/photo#5043943587725597090 -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From hudsonman35 at gmail.com Mon Oct 15 17:39:34 2007 From: hudsonman35 at gmail.com (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:39:34 -0400 Subject: A Public Awareness Campaign for Fedora!!! Message-ID: Recently I posted on my blog, a challenge. How can Fedora be BETTER than MAC OS X? I know that the MAC is the best OS out there. Microsoft is ripping off OS X with Vista which is not doing well in sales. Thanks to the bad coding, overdemanding system requirements, and a movement called LINUX! So how can we Fedora Fans/Users/Developers LURE the frustrated Vista Users and people who don't use a computer to try out Fedora. A Campaign needs to be set up where people reach out to Media Outlets via online and postal mail telling people, there is an ALTERNATIVE to both Vista AND Mac! That is FEDORA! This is the idea, what should be done about it? Mark McLaughlin (linuxglobe.wordpress.com) From jkeating at j2solutions.net Mon Oct 15 17:51:53 2007 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (jkeating) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:51:53 -0400 Subject: A Public Awareness Campaign for Fedora!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071015135153.382d7aa5@j2solutions.net> On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:39:34 -0400 "Markus McLaughlin" wrote: > Recently I posted on my blog, a challenge. How can Fedora be BETTER > than MAC OS X? I know that the MAC is the best OS out there. > Microsoft is ripping off OS X with > Vista which is not doing well in sales. Thanks to the bad coding, > overdemanding system requirements, and a movement called LINUX! So > how can we Fedora Fans/Users/Developers LURE the frustrated Vista > Users and people who don't use a computer to try out Fedora. A > Campaign needs to be set up where people reach out to Media Outlets > via online and postal mail telling people, there is an ALTERNATIVE to > both Vista AND Mac! That is FEDORA! This is the idea, what should be > done about it? Define "better". -- Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From webpath at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 15 18:28:58 2007 From: webpath at fedoraproject.org (Karlie Robinson) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:28:58 -0400 Subject: A Public Awareness Campaign for Fedora!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4713B16A.6050702@fedoraproject.org> Markus McLaughlin wrote: > Recently I posted on my blog, a challenge. How can Fedora be BETTER > than MAC OS X? I know that the MAC is the best OS out there. > Microsoft is ripping off OS X with > Vista which is not doing well in sales. Thanks to the bad coding, > overdemanding system requirements, and a movement called LINUX! So > how can we Fedora Fans/Users/Developers LURE the frustrated Vista > Users and people who don't use a computer to try out Fedora. A > Campaign needs to be set up where people reach out to Media Outlets > via online and postal mail telling people, there is an ALTERNATIVE to > both Vista AND Mac! That is FEDORA! This is the idea, what should be > done about it? > > Mark McLaughlin > Markus, I personally appreciate you enthusiasm for Fedora, but I feel that sometimes is a bit off the mark. Fedora, like many Free and Open Source projects, actively markets their software. But, with Fedora the marketing techniques tends to mirror the community aspect of the project. Fedora wouldn't be what it is without many people joining together to create something positive. Pitting one OS against others creates battle lines and has a dividing effect. To me, the most effective way to bring frustrated users over to Linux is by continuing to foster community - well that and it doesn't hurt to mention fun things like the lack of Virus infections. You also have to take into consideration that Fedora isn't always the best choice for a windows user switching to Linux for the first time. There are loads of distros that fall under the "General Desktop" and are being developed specifically to welcome the masses to Linux. It's also good to remember that in the grand scheme of things you can't even compare Fedora to any other OS. It's in a league of it's own. Why is it in it's own league? Besides fostering community and freedom as a core value, the Fedora project also strives to create advanced technology. That removes Fedora from worry about Market share. As long as great stuff happens with the code and everyone is glad to be part of the team, what more can you ask for? ~Karlie From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 15 19:42:59 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:42:59 +0200 Subject: A Public Awareness Campaign for Fedora!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0710151242t4cc24b3el3a50de1b406a47ee@mail.gmail.com> On 10/15/07, Markus McLaughlin wrote: > Recently I posted on my blog, a challenge. How can Fedora be BETTER > than MAC OS X? On 10/15/07, jkeating wrote: > Define "better". Jesse is right here, you need to define "better". On 10/15/07, Karlie Robinson wrote: > Fedora wouldn't be what it is without many people joining together to > create something positive. Pitting one OS against others creates battle > lines and has a dividing effect. This is true. Since Fedora * is the upstream of many Linux distributions. * has many other projects besides being a Linux distribution. Campaigning for Fedora is a good start for any contributor. But one should be aware of minimum: * what is Fedora (as linux distribution)? * what is the Fedora Project? * what are outcome of each Fedora projects? * how people from different countries communicate at the Fedora project (Mailing list, planet.fedoraproject.org,irc..) and eventually meet up in real life to plan something big. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors Thus one will eventually : * find where to contribute at the Fedora Project. * know how to market Fedora (there are many resources on the wiki). * know how Fedora contributors(RH&community) take decisions together. * see where he/she will take advantage of his/her own contributions. Then afterwards campaigning for Fedora will be easy for anyone. I understand that these might be boring, but have played a crucial role in community development and successful outcomes. If one wants to market fedora, he/she should be able to answer questions (from the public) related to Fedora. Read Fedora wiki, understand the features of fedora or exciting news. Blog these items and _praise_ the outcome of fedora. Show how upstreams or any other distributions had taken advantage of fedora's contributions. Attacking randomly and anyone will only create troubles. The following links contains some materials used to promote fedora http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Presentations http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon regards, Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From marketing-list at fedoralinks.org Mon Oct 15 18:41:02 2007 From: marketing-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:41:02 -0500 Subject: We need more excitement Message-ID: <4713B43E.30701@fedoralinks.org> More CAPS and OS/Distro wars!!!!!1111one!!!eleven Robert 'Bob' Jensen From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 15 20:25:38 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:25:38 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <47134BC9.9020702@mwiriadi.id.au> References: <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <1191775036.4831.50.camel@Ulises> <47093540.4070104@kanarip.com> <1191969397.10798.41.camel@Ulises> <470C09CA.8040201@fedoraproject.org> <1192397601.3784.142.camel@Ulises> <20071014174449.11752944@j2solutions.net> <1192399727.3784.169.camel@Ulises> <47134BC9.9020702@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0710151325i2c2602e6haedbf23a5b7c1b84@mail.gmail.com> On 10/15/07, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > The fact that Ubuntu has bigger numbers is due in part to the fact that > it is easier to install than Fedora although that is changing. Haha this is funny. I know many ubuntu/kubuntu users with more than 5 unofficial repositories. Is this simple ??? Please define a time when it was "simple". Before FC1 ? Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From wdc at MIT.EDU Mon Oct 15 22:01:08 2007 From: wdc at MIT.EDU (William Cattey) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:01:08 -0400 Subject: New Meeting Minute Format In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0710131308q120f17aep2770c39851a9247a@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0710131308q120f17aep2770c39851a9247a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8FA76444-93D4-4FAB-B79B-7933E22095E2@mit.edu> Forgive my not sending kudos to the whole list. If I were a more regular contributor I'd feel more confident that doing so was the right thing. I REALLY like the HTML formatting. Color coding each participant makes it MUCH faster to read and make sense of the discussion. Well done! There are rather a lot of meetings for which that kind of transformation would be quite useful. Thanks for doing it, and making the translator into a program so others can make it happen easily. -Bill ---- William Cattey Linux Platform Coordinator MIT Information Services & Technology N42-040M, 617-253-0140, wdc at mit.edu http://web.mit.edu/wdc/www/ On Oct 13, 2007, at 4:08 PM, John Babich wrote: > I am trying a new meeting minutes format for the Fedora Marketing > meetings, based on the Fedora Docs Steering Commitee procedure. > > See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Meetings/Minutes and > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Meetings/Minutes/ > IRCLog20071013. > > The HTML version of the IRC uses a clever Python script call > irclog2html.py. > > Unfortunately, I had to use Chatzilla, instead of my usual IRC client, > so I was unable to capture the timestamp. > > Let me know what you all think of it. > > If we like it, I will clean up the rest of the pages in this section. > > John Babich > Volunteer, Fedora Project > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Oct 16 00:42:07 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:42:07 +0800 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0710151325i2c2602e6haedbf23a5b7c1b84@mail.gmail.com> References: <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <1191775036.4831.50.camel@Ulises> <47093540.4070104@kanarip.com> <1191969397.10798.41.camel@Ulises> <470C09CA.8040201@fedoraproject.org> <1192397601.3784.142.camel@Ulises> <20071014174449.11752944@j2solutions.net> <1192399727.3784.169.camel@Ulises> <47134BC9.9020702@mwiriadi.id.au> <13dbfe4f0710151325i2c2602e6haedbf23a5b7c1b84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1192495327.3614.2.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> On Mon, 2007-10-15 at 22:25 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 10/15/07, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > The fact that Ubuntu has bigger numbers is due in part to the fact that > > it is easier to install than Fedora although that is changing. > > Haha this is funny. I know many ubuntu/kubuntu users with more than 5 > unofficial repositories. Is this simple ??? > > Please define a time when it was "simple". > Before FC1 ? > > Chitlesh > -- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > It is simple Chitlesh in the sense that you can install ubuntu from windows. Someone puts in the CD and it sets up the installation of linux. The non-free stuff is out of the box. Generally makes life easier. The 5 unofficial repositories I've only heard of 1 thats not to say that there aren't more but those users are a rarity I think. I can setup 4 extra repositories in Fedora as well but I would be a rarity. Marc From jnanney at mscoast.com Tue Oct 16 07:04:14 2007 From: jnanney at mscoast.com (Jim Nanney) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 02:04:14 -0500 Subject: Recent Activities In-Reply-To: <1192495327.3614.2.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <1191775036.4831.50.camel@Ulises> <47093540.4070104@kanarip.com> <1191969397.10798.41.camel@Ulises> <470C09CA.8040201@fedoraproject.org> <1192397601.3784.142.camel@Ulises> <20071014174449.11752944@j2solutions.net> <1192399727.3784.169.camel@Ulises> <47134BC9.9020702@mwiriadi.id.au> <13dbfe4f0710151325i2c2602e6haedbf23a5b7c1b84@mail.gmail.com> <1192495327.3614.2.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <4714626E.5090807@mscoast.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm cross-posting this from the Ambassadors list as it pertains greatly to marketing as well. Let me preface with the following: My expectations are simply to raise awareness about the choices that are available to small business and I highlight myself as an example. All too often, many small/home based businesses jump in head first into their known specialty, forgoing the research about FOSS creating in my opinion a downward spiral for their business. In particular Fedora is ripe for small business due to its complete and "infinite" freedom. The uneducated purchase of software not suited to help sustain the business, but rather lock the business to a single vendor, presents ongoing problems later on in the business lifespan causing its own fair share of hassles. I hope to supply many "Would Be" entrepreneurs with the knowledge they need to make an informed decision about their true IT needs prior to startup. I think an informed decision is the best decision, and while I may be chided for saying so, even when that decision is a decision not to use Fedora. The right tool for a job is very important, however, buying and using the only tool you know of, does not make it the right tool. Read more in my ramblings below about all this. As for the book I discussed below, I realized too late that I did not write the name of the book, but the title is "Linux Bible 2008". I strongly encourage all of you to purchase this book, as I have found Chris' writings to be invaluable prior to this. Thanks, - --Jim - -------------- All, Last Friday, Chris Negus (of Fedora Linux Bible 6, 7, Linux Toys, Linux Toys 2, fame, and many, many more) interviewed me about my company and my use of open source and in particular Fedora for my small business. Expected press date of the book is in January of 2008. It was a pleasure to talk to him about the usefulness of completely "Free" software to a small business and home based businesses. And in "Free" I am more describing the unencumbered software, free of patent issues, free of vendor lock-in, and of course free to modify and distribute. I spoke about the need for more small businesses to realize the huge benefits of free software at length with him. I was told a complete section would be devoted to use cases and a couple of pages specifically about my business and its open source only devotion. Small business really is an overlooked aspect from my point of view and this needs more attention. The average startup company must spend a minimum of $5000 in just software to get a small business running. And in this initial purchase, a small business locks themselves into single vendor, proprietary solutions, that would require hundreds of man hours of work to change to an Open Source solution. Truly a small business can save lots of money using free software, not only in cost of the software, but in cost of not being locked to a single vendor. This is information that *needs* to be available to those about to start a business, so that they can make an informed decision about what is best for their company. This may only be my personal perception, but it seems lots of focus and attention is spent on showcasing large business benefiting from the switch to open source, but truly small business can benefit more percentage wise from making that decision upfront. The latter of which does not seem to to be highlighted in articles or media. As for other Ambassador activities, this evening I hosted the South Mississippi Linux Users Group meeting and gave a presentation on using graphics packages under Fedora (specifically the Gimp and Inkscape) to create web graphics, and distributed around 10 DVDs and Live CDs to members. While probably not a big thing to most of you, our LUG membership has dwindled to meetings of 2 or 3 people on some occasions. Tonight was the largest LUG meeting we've seen since pre Katrina days. Thanks for reading my ramblings and I hope the meat of what I am saying makes sense, - --Jim -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHFGJu3GRPSy3vDJMRAiWFAKCpm+V9R4fz6tQ0asTLif9IaiKX4wCfVpDC 9aWFntXRSVh2bdCzmqp6wC8= =bfyC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Oct 16 16:38:14 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 00:38:14 +0800 Subject: Linux vs. Windows Power Usage Message-ID: <1192552694.17433.3.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=880&num=1 "While idling, Ubuntu 7.10 was consuming the most power with 41 Watts while Fedora 8 Test 3 had consumed the least amount of power at 38 Watts. Both Windows XP and Vista were consuming 39 Watts while idling. As this system was using SiS Real 256 graphics, Compiz Fusion was not enabled by default for Ubuntu 7.10, yet it had consumed the most power." From hudsonman35 at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 18:13:08 2007 From: hudsonman35 at gmail.com (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:13:08 -0400 Subject: Fedora-marketing-list Digest, Vol 40, Issue 23 In-Reply-To: <20071016160010.BB874732D7@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20071016160010.BB874732D7@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: All of your points are well in good but Public Awareness is still not out there for Fedora. What I define as BETTER : The UK's Linux Format comes out with Book-Like Magazines for every major Linux Distro with a FREE DVD attached. Fedora needs it's own Book-Like Magazine published a month after a release at every newsstand at every Borders/Barnes & Noble/Wal-Mart/Target store in USA! That is one way to get out the Public Awareness, another is encouragement for every linux club in USA to set up a monthly event highlighting what linux can do for their community be it a church, a school, a store, or a small business (kind of like a job fair kind of thing.) I will be going to a lot of linux user groups online to drum up ideas for how to promote linux AND my linux blog/future linux magazine as well. This is a worthy crusade for me since I am not just a fan of Fedora, I am also a Writer who loves to write/ speak up about issues important to me. Fedora is one of them! Why I created linuxglobe.wordpress.com : I am tired of Windoze being so dominant everywhere I go. When I was overseas, a month and a half ago, I saw so many PCs with just Windoze on it. There were only two stores that I been to that did sell Apple Computers. The only magazine out there promoting Linux was the UK's Linux Format, I know the UK has been publishing other Linux Magazines. But NO U.S. Magazine is doing so, that is why I want to convert my blog into a magazine with experts on Linux teaching me and others the benefits of Linus Torvald's masterpiece : Linux! I can go on and on, but my blog will have more to say... Continue the hard work and make Fedora much more than just an OS, make it a movement! Markus McLaughlin From wdc at MIT.EDU Tue Oct 16 18:48:41 2007 From: wdc at MIT.EDU (William Cattey) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:48:41 -0400 Subject: Promotion of Linux is one of many tasks for me! In-Reply-To: <46C06C3F.8080409@fedoraproject.org> References: <46C06C3F.8080409@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <082644D9-CC72-44B9-94A3-B3F74EE0A29B@mit.edu> Just today I got around to following your link to try out the Q&A. When I clicked on ANY of the answers, it dumped me into the top level of the web site with no answers, and no indication that what happened was that the answer was not found or moved. What happened? Someone happening across your excellent questions might mistake it as a very detailed way to put someone onto a marketing site. I'm sure that's not what you intended. You might want to see why clicking on the answers stopped working. -Bill ---- William Cattey Linux Platform Coordinator MIT Information Services & Technology N42-040M, 617-253-0140, wdc at mit.edu http://web.mit.edu/wdc/www/ On Aug 13, 2007, at 10:35 AM, Karlie Robinson wrote: > Markus McLaughlin wrote: >> My mission is to convert regular folks who don't know Windoze, MAC, >> or Linux, and convert them into Linux Users, IT guys can help me >> out with this task! Onward and forward! > > I have been getting similar questions from what I like to think of > as "average" computer users contemplating the switch to Linux. > > I decided to print them in an advice column format rather than an > FAQ to help get the friendly nature of Linux across. The hope is > that other users will find some of the info helpful. Though I'll > admit there's not much in the Q&A those already using Linux will > find exciting. > > I usually get a very vague question, so I can't give more than a > Vague/RTFM answer, but If you'd like a little insight into what > these users are thinking about, you can check out http://on- > disk.com/cms/index.php?wiki=Ask_On-Disk > > Karlie > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed Oct 17 15:48:53 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 16:48:53 +0100 Subject: Interview 5 Message-ID: <3263b11b0710170848m3d254dd6l8a343d19af9854c1@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I'm just putting this interview up now, but I'm having trouble putting the pictures up to go with it.... Is there some trouble with the wiki today? If not, would somebody else mind adding the attachments if I forward them along? Best wishes, Jon From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 17 16:11:07 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 22:41:07 +0630 Subject: Interview 5 In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710170848m3d254dd6l8a343d19af9854c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710170848m3d254dd6l8a343d19af9854c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4716341B.7@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm just putting this interview up now, but I'm having trouble putting > the pictures up to go with it.... > > Is there some trouble with the wiki today? > > If not, would somebody else mind adding the attachments if I forward them along? Send them to me. Preferably uploaded somewhere else. Rahul From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed Oct 17 16:26:00 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 17:26:00 +0100 Subject: Interview 5 In-Reply-To: <4716341B.7@fedoraproject.org> References: <3263b11b0710170848m3d254dd6l8a343d19af9854c1@mail.gmail.com> <4716341B.7@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710170926q3adfc92dx79f1b53f66d57693@mail.gmail.com> > Send them to me. Preferably uploaded somewhere else. Hey, http://questionsplease.org/fedora/ Thanks a lot, it's much appreciated :D Jon From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 17 16:41:28 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 23:11:28 +0630 Subject: Interview 5 In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710170926q3adfc92dx79f1b53f66d57693@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710170848m3d254dd6l8a343d19af9854c1@mail.gmail.com> <4716341B.7@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710170926q3adfc92dx79f1b53f66d57693@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47163B38.4020206@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> Send them to me. Preferably uploaded somewhere else. > > Hey, > > http://questionsplease.org/fedora/ > > Thanks a lot, it's much appreciated :D Uploaded everything. Resize and reference as you wish and send it off to digg and let us know. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 17 17:10:43 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 23:40:43 +0630 Subject: The Linux Foundation's desktop Linux survey Message-ID: <47164213.2070204@fedoraproject.org> Hi http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.desktop.architects/812 "Join Us in the Third Annual Desktop Linux Survey -- Linux Foundation Desktop Linux Workgroup Have your say on what desktop Linux really needs! Please Join us in the Third Annual Desktop Linux Survey, at: www.linux-foundation.org/en/2007ClientSurvey The survey will take only few minutes of your time, and your feedback is essential in helping us to focus our development efforts and accelerate the global adoption of Linux desktops and clients. For example, past surveys highlighted the need to address printing and wireless issues, so we set up focused workgroups and conferences to help developers and vendors work out common solutions to these requirements." Rahul From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed Oct 17 18:12:51 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 19:12:51 +0100 Subject: Interview 5 In-Reply-To: <47163B38.4020206@fedoraproject.org> References: <3263b11b0710170848m3d254dd6l8a343d19af9854c1@mail.gmail.com> <4716341B.7@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710170926q3adfc92dx79f1b53f66d57693@mail.gmail.com> <47163B38.4020206@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710171112qbe4c871v3da500ecaa74b4dd@mail.gmail.com> Hey, One quick question: How can I force the pictures to resize without having to upload them again!?! Sorry my head doesn't seem to be screwed on tonight... Jon On 17/10/2007, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Jonathan Roberts wrote: > >> Send them to me. Preferably uploaded somewhere else. > > > > Hey, > > > > http://questionsplease.org/fedora/ > > > > Thanks a lot, it's much appreciated :D > > Uploaded everything. Resize and reference as you wish and send it off to > digg and let us know. > > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 17 18:47:36 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:47:36 +0200 Subject: Interview 5 In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710171112qbe4c871v3da500ecaa74b4dd@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710170848m3d254dd6l8a343d19af9854c1@mail.gmail.com> <4716341B.7@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710170926q3adfc92dx79f1b53f66d57693@mail.gmail.com> <47163B38.4020206@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710171112qbe4c871v3da500ecaa74b4dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0710171147xb8de837odab19203f97a3150@mail.gmail.com> On 10/17/07, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hey, > > One quick question: > > How can I force the pictures to resize without having to upload them > again!?! Sorry my head doesn't seem to be screwed on tonight... > You can use the following as example: [[ImageLink(fedora-livecd.png,width=400,height=300)]] I've once used on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kadischi Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed Oct 17 20:03:07 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 21:03:07 +0100 Subject: Interview 5 In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0710171147xb8de837odab19203f97a3150@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710170848m3d254dd6l8a343d19af9854c1@mail.gmail.com> <4716341B.7@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710170926q3adfc92dx79f1b53f66d57693@mail.gmail.com> <47163B38.4020206@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710171112qbe4c871v3da500ecaa74b4dd@mail.gmail.com> <13dbfe4f0710171147xb8de837odab19203f97a3150@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710171303x2749bc58ke9ba362f51542f86@mail.gmail.com> Hey all, It's up and on Digg now... http://digg.com/linux_unix/Fedora_s_Electronic_Lab and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/FEL I'll send along to LWN and OSNews etc now too. Hope everyone enjoys it :D Jon From mmcgrath at redhat.com Wed Oct 17 20:17:32 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 15:17:32 -0500 Subject: Lets pick a little fight... Message-ID: <47166DDC.6070107@redhat.com> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Shuttleworth_caught_making_up_install_base Give me a hand getting this some press. -Mike From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed Oct 17 20:32:06 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 21:32:06 +0100 Subject: Lets pick a little fight... In-Reply-To: <47166DDC.6070107@redhat.com> References: <47166DDC.6070107@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710171332p39ec00fewd1c8e6ab7353737c@mail.gmail.com> On 17/10/2007, Mike McGrath wrote: > http://digg.com/linux_unix/Shuttleworth_caught_making_up_install_base > > Give me a hand getting this some press. > > -Mike Have you blogged it?! I think Planet readers are pretty good at getting stories some diggs! Jon > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From mmcgrath at redhat.com Wed Oct 17 20:27:28 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 15:27:28 -0500 Subject: Lets pick a little fight... In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710171332p39ec00fewd1c8e6ab7353737c@mail.gmail.com> References: <47166DDC.6070107@redhat.com> <3263b11b0710171332p39ec00fewd1c8e6ab7353737c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47167030.8060909@redhat.com> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > On 17/10/2007, Mike McGrath wrote: > >> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Shuttleworth_caught_making_up_install_base >> >> Give me a hand getting this some press. >> >> -Mike >> > > Have you blogged it?! I think Planet readers are pretty good at > getting stories some diggs! > > Its at the top of http://planet.fedoraproject.org/ right now. -Mike From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 17 19:49:52 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 02:19:52 +0630 Subject: metrics and transparency Message-ID: <47166760.3020106@fedoraproject.org> Hi Metrics can be fuzzy but they aren't numbers you pull out of your back pocket. The source is important and people do notice. http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/article.php/3705606 "Shuttleworth also touched upon the issue of Unbuntu's user base, saying that it has "in excess of 6 million users." He did, however, admit that he couldn't be sure of the number since there is no formal registration process for most users, and neither Canonical nor the Ubuntu community do any active monitoring of installations. However, Red Hat Fedora Linux, Ubuntu's competitor, provides publicly available usage numbers based on how many Fedora installations update their machines. As of Oct. 3, Fedora reported nearly 1.5 million users for its Fedora 7 release alone. Fedora had previously reported nearly 3 million users for its Fedora 6 release. " Rahul From karlthered2 at gmail.com Thu Oct 18 09:53:20 2007 From: karlthered2 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?H._Gu=E9mar?=) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:53:20 +0200 Subject: Lets pick a little fight... In-Reply-To: <47167030.8060909@redhat.com> References: <47166DDC.6070107@redhat.com> <3263b11b0710171332p39ec00fewd1c8e6ab7353737c@mail.gmail.com> <47167030.8060909@redhat.com> Message-ID: YAY for MAX !!!! \o/ I can't wait for Mark Shuttleworth and/or Ubuntu community answers. Will they join Smolt or decline our invitation to build their own hardware profiler and statistic tools ? H. From mxcarron at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 18 19:19:51 2007 From: mxcarron at fedoraproject.org (Maxime Carron) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:19:51 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?b?TcOhaXLDrW4=?= you're a star! Message-ID: <20071018211951.3ebb470b@lolita.maxca.org> Linuxfr, THE french linux news website, announce today the latest Ubuntu. We can read : "Ubuntu a encore beaucoup ? apprendre de SuSE et Fedora (f?licitations ? M?ir?n Duffy" About artwork : "Ubuntu still have a lot of things to learn from SuSE and Fedora (Congratulations to M?ir?n Duffy)". It's worth to notice that it's certainly a Ubuntu user who wrote this news. So... once again, congratulations M?ir?n. http://linuxfr.org/2007/10/18/23225.html (I'm so sorry for those who can't read french) Cheers, Maxime -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 18 23:49:16 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:19:16 +0630 Subject: Fedora Marketing Meeting Tomorrow Message-ID: <4717F0FC.9040100@fedoraproject.org> Hi In #fedora-mktg Freenode IRC channel. Be there at 11 AM UTC. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=10&day=20&year=2007&hour=11&min=0&sec=0&p1=0 Rahul From fedora-gmane.00005 at genesis-x.nildram.co.uk Fri Oct 19 00:43:43 2007 From: fedora-gmane.00005 at genesis-x.nildram.co.uk (Keith G. Robertson-Turner) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 01:43:43 +0100 Subject: Fedora name stolen by another project :( Message-ID: <07blu4-tth.ln1@sky.matrix> See for yourself: http://www.fedora.info/ It /is/ an Open Source project, however they must surely have known about the /real/ Fedora project when they summarily took our name. Not good. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 19 00:35:21 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:05:21 +0630 Subject: Fedora name stolen by another project :( In-Reply-To: <07blu4-tth.ln1@sky.matrix> References: <07blu4-tth.ln1@sky.matrix> Message-ID: <4717FBC9.7040303@fedoraproject.org> Keith G. Robertson-Turner wrote: > See for yourself: > > http://www.fedora.info/ > > It /is/ an Open Source project, however they must surely have known > about the /real/ Fedora project when they summarily took our name. > > Not good. Though the project has recently renamed itself from Fedora Project to Fedora Commons, it has existed for a long time. See http://fedora.info/redHat.shtml Every now and then people tend to rediscover it. Rahul From mattdm at mattdm.org Fri Oct 19 03:38:21 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:38:21 -0400 Subject: Fedora name stolen by another project :( In-Reply-To: <07blu4-tth.ln1@sky.matrix> References: <07blu4-tth.ln1@sky.matrix> Message-ID: <20071019033821.GA23950@jadzia.bu.edu> On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 01:43:43AM +0100, Keith G. Robertson-Turner wrote: > See for yourself: > http://www.fedora.info/ > It /is/ an Open Source project, however they must surely have known > about the /real/ Fedora project when they summarily took our name. Predates Fedora, even Warren's original Fedora repository. Basically, both projects were using the name in their own little worlds for several years before either became a big deal. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From cra at WPI.EDU Fri Oct 19 03:54:14 2007 From: cra at WPI.EDU (Chuck Anderson) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:54:14 -0400 Subject: Fedora name stolen by another project :( In-Reply-To: <20071019033821.GA23950@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <07blu4-tth.ln1@sky.matrix> <20071019033821.GA23950@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <20071019035414.GE4043@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 11:38:21PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 01:43:43AM +0100, Keith G. Robertson-Turner wrote: > > See for yourself: > > http://www.fedora.info/ > > It /is/ an Open Source project, however they must surely have known > > about the /real/ Fedora project when they summarily took our name. > > > > Predates Fedora, even Warren's original Fedora repository. Basically, both > projects were using the name in their own little worlds for several years > before either became a big deal. Has anyone thought about packaging Fedora for Fedora? Now that would be confusing... From fedora-gmane.00005 at genesis-x.nildram.co.uk Fri Oct 19 04:10:21 2007 From: fedora-gmane.00005 at genesis-x.nildram.co.uk (Keith G. Robertson-Turner) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 05:10:21 +0100 Subject: Fedora name stolen by another project :( In-Reply-To: <20071019035414.GE4043@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> References: <07blu4-tth.ln1@sky.matrix> <20071019033821.GA23950@jadzia.bu.edu> <20071019035414.GE4043@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> Message-ID: Verily I say unto thee, that Chuck Anderson spake thusly: > On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 11:38:21PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: >> Predates Fedora, even Warren's original Fedora repository. >> Basically, both projects were using the name in their own little >> worlds for several years before either became a big deal. Thanks for the heads-up. I must admit I have never heard of that /other/ Fedora until today (syndicate feed from LXer I think). > Has anyone thought about packaging Fedora for Fedora? Now that would > be confusing... :) I just had a chat with someone on #fedora-devel (IRC) who seemed to think it depended on JBoss, if that's any help. From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Oct 19 05:16:51 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:16:51 +0800 (WST) Subject: Fedora Marketing Meeting Tomorrow In-Reply-To: <4717F0FC.9040100@fedoraproject.org> References: <4717F0FC.9040100@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1724.202.72.163.232.1192771011.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> > Hi > > > In #fedora-mktg Freenode IRC channel. Be there at 11 AM UTC. > > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=10&day=20&year=2007&hour=11&min=0&sec=0&p1=0 > > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > I'm there. Cheers, Marc From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Oct 19 06:17:11 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:17:11 +0300 Subject: =?utf-8?b?TcOhaXLDrW4geW91J3JlIGEgc3RhciE=?= In-Reply-To: <20071018211951.3ebb470b@lolita.maxca.org> References: <20071018211951.3ebb470b@lolita.maxca.org> Message-ID: <47184BE7.4020401@nicubunu.ro> Maxime Carron wrote: > Linuxfr, THE french linux news website, announce today the latest > Ubuntu. > > We can read : > "Ubuntu a encore beaucoup ? apprendre de SuSE et Fedora (f?licitations > ? M?ir?n Duffy" > > So... once again, congratulations M?ir?n. > > http://linuxfr.org/2007/10/18/23225.html Yup, she is a star. A rock star! -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From webpath at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 19 16:35:30 2007 From: webpath at fedoraproject.org (Karlie Robinson) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:35:30 -0400 Subject: Ohio Linux Fest Follow up Message-ID: <4718DCD2.1030707@fedoraproject.org> Sorry it's been so long getting it published. It's been a really crazy couple of weeks around here. http://on-disk.com/cms/index.php?wiki=ohio_linux_fest_2007 - Todd's article about the Fest http://on-disk.com/cms/index.php?wiki=OLF_ResourceList - My talk outline. We didn't talk about half of it, but it was a good talk that even ran long. As I was telling Max at the fest, the whole point of my talk was to try to stir up a bit of controversy between the No-cost folks and the Freedom folks. Let me know if you have any questions. ~Karlie From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Oct 20 12:50:19 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:20:19 +0630 Subject: Fedora Marketing Meeting Tomorrow In-Reply-To: <4717F0FC.9040100@fedoraproject.org> References: <4717F0FC.9040100@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4719F98B.9040006@fedoraproject.org> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > > In #fedora-mktg Freenode IRC channel. Be there at 11 AM UTC. > > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=10&day=20&year=2007&hour=11&min=0&sec=0&p1=0 I ran into other issues and couldn't make it to the meeting. Sorry. Did anyone go ahead? Rahul From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Oct 20 15:10:57 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:10:57 +0800 Subject: Fedora Marketing Meeting Tomorrow In-Reply-To: <4719F98B.9040006@fedoraproject.org> References: <4717F0FC.9040100@fedoraproject.org> <4719F98B.9040006@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1192893057.31051.0.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> On Sat, 2007-10-20 at 19:20 +0630, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > > > > > In #fedora-mktg Freenode IRC channel. Be there at 11 AM UTC. > > > > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=10&day=20&year=2007&hour=11&min=0&sec=0&p1=0 > > I ran into other issues and couldn't make it to the meeting. Sorry. Did > anyone go ahead? > > Rahul Nope. No discussion in the fedora-mktg channel. Marc From hudsonman35 at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 16:47:02 2007 From: hudsonman35 at gmail.com (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 12:47:02 -0400 Subject: Eastern Massachusetts Linux Fest Inquiry Message-ID: If there are any Linux companies or colleges that use Linux in Massachusetts interested in putting together a Linux Fest from Worcester, Marlborough, Hudson, Natick, Framingham, or Boston this fall..... Let's get one set up!!! Fedora 8 is coming out and a Linux Fest that highlights that as well as the recent releases of Ubuntu 7.10 and openSUSE 10.3 will need to be represented. The communities out here don't know anything about Linux and a FEST out here is vital!!! Mark McLaughlin linuxglobe.wordpress.com Hudson, MA From duffy at redhat.com Sat Oct 20 19:07:49 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:07:49 -0400 Subject: Eastern Massachusetts Linux Fest Inquiry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <471A5205.4080104@redhat.com> Markus McLaughlin wrote: > If there are any Linux companies or colleges that use Linux in > Massachusetts interested in putting together a Linux Fest from > Worcester, Marlborough, Hudson, Natick, Framingham, or Boston this > fall..... Let's get one set up!!! Fedora 8 is coming out and a Linux > Fest that highlights that as well as the recent releases of Ubuntu > 7.10 and openSUSE 10.3 will need to be represented. The communities > out here don't know anything about Linux and a FEST out here is > vital!!! Really? I live in the Boston area and a substantial number of other folks who work on Fedora live here as well. Red Hat has an office in the area as does Novell. The GNOME summit was a couple weekends ago in Cambridge, and next weekend there is going to be FOSS Camp in Cambridge as well, on MIT's campus. So I am not sure that it is fair to say the communities in eastern Massachusetts don't know anything about Linux any more so than other areas of Massachusetts. Then again it depends what you mean by "community" - What target audience are you looking to reach? Since you appear to not be particularly concerned about Fedora for this, you might want to get in touch with the Boston LUG group: http://blu.org/ ~m From cra at WPI.EDU Sat Oct 20 20:21:02 2007 From: cra at WPI.EDU (Chuck Anderson) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 16:21:02 -0400 Subject: Eastern Massachusetts Linux Fest Inquiry In-Reply-To: <471A5205.4080104@redhat.com> References: <471A5205.4080104@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20071020202102.GB25455@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> On Sat, Oct 20, 2007 at 03:07:49PM -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > The communities out here don't know anything about Linux and a > > FEST out here is vital!!! > > Really? I live in the Boston area and a substantial number of other > folks who work on Fedora live here as well. Red Hat has an office in the > area as does Novell. The GNOME summit was a couple weekends ago in > Cambridge, and next weekend there is going to be FOSS Camp in Cambridge > as well, on MIT's campus. So I am not sure that it is fair to say the > communities in eastern Massachusetts don't know anything about Linux any > more so than other areas of Massachusetts. Then again it depends what > you mean by "community" - > > What target audience are you looking to reach? Since you appear to not > be particularly concerned about Fedora for this, you might want to get > in touch with the Boston LUG group: http://blu.org/ I'd also like to point out the Worester LUG: http://www.wlug.org/ of which I'm a member. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 21 02:04:07 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 08:34:07 +0630 Subject: Distrowatch on Fedora Artwork Message-ID: <471AB397.2040202@fedoraproject.org> Hi I have been consistently seeing comments putting Fedora artwork as the level to which other distributions should aspire to reach. Desktop SIG has already started discussions on what to do for Fedora 9 which includes a smoother startup which should up the bar even higher. http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20071015#news "Until relatively recently, desktop aesthetics was not something Linux distribution projects lost much sleep over. New functionality, hardware support and package updates all took precedence over the work of graphic designers who always played second fiddles to the programmers. Not any more. As Linux distributions mature, there is much more emphasis on creating a desktop which is not only functional, but which also pleases the eye of the user. The Fedora project has been on the forefront of these initiatives, which resulted in some of the most eye-catching desktop art and themes available in any distribution. How do they do it? Learn more in this interview with Fedora art team lead M?ir?n Duffy" Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Sun Oct 21 05:21:55 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:55 -0700 Subject: metrics and transparency In-Reply-To: <47166760.3020106@fedoraproject.org> References: <47166760.3020106@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1192944115.14547.507.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-10-18 at 02:19 +0630, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Metrics can be fuzzy ... Right, and let's keep things in perspective: http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2Cfedora%2Csex -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Oct 21 06:48:09 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:48:09 +0800 Subject: metrics and transparency In-Reply-To: <1192944115.14547.507.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <47166760.3020106@fedoraproject.org> <1192944115.14547.507.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1192949289.5554.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-10-20 at 22:21 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2007-10-18 at 02:19 +0630, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > > > Metrics can be fuzzy ... > > Right, and let's keep things in perspective: > > http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2Cfedora%2Csex To true. It seems that ubuntu and fedora are losing to sex who would have thought. Marc From duffy at redhat.com Sun Oct 21 08:15:10 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?TcOhaXLDrW4gRHVmZnk=?=) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 04:15:10 -0400 Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> References: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> Message-ID: <471B0A8E.9030600@redhat.com> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hey folks, > > What do you think about designing an official FUDcon logo to be used at > FUDcons all over the world? Hi folks, so it seems that logo 5 here has won by far based on all the feedback I've received, plus it seems like it would be very cheap/easy to print: http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos-final.png Thanks to everyone who submitted designs, helped out, and/or gave feedback! ~m From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 21 17:26:28 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:26:28 -0400 Subject: f In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0710131401m112cceceke6e032e151d31805@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710130524q7d800f8anc136248febcf7b4e@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0710131401m112cceceke6e032e151d31805@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1192987588.31340.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-10-14 at 00:01 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On 10/13/07, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > Hey all, > > > > We've just been talking in a marketing meeting about trying to get > > some documentation up for creating re-spins before F8... > > > > See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20071013 > for the IRC log of the meeting. > > > The Fedora Unity people ahve done a pretty good job with a lot of > > documentation already so we wondered about pulling it across for > > docs.fedoraproject.org - perhaps with a bit of editing and pointing > > back to unity? > > > > Is this feasible? What would need to be done? I'd be happy to do the > > work for this... > > > > Yes, let's discuss this in the FDSco meeting. I'll add it to the agenda. We'd love to have compatibly licensed docs, sure! But with them, we also really need a maintainer's time. It doesn't take much time to do that work, certainly MUCH less than the work of preparing the original doc, or the code to which it refers. The Docs project is down to very few working hands and every time someone asks whether we could use more content, we have to answer, "Sure, but we need help to keep it up-to-date." Otherwise, it's more like throwing it over a wall and expecting "someone else" to handle it, which is a recipe for outdated, withering documentation. Could some marketing people be interested in actually doing that work? Of course we would welcome the help and be happy to advise or train in any way needed. I think volunteers would be surprised at how easy it is to accomplish some of this work. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jkeating at j2solutions.net Mon Oct 22 03:07:53 2007 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (jkeating) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:07:53 -0400 Subject: Surely we have more than 300 new features... Message-ID: <20071021230753.02b2f1d3@j2solutions.net> http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html -- Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nayyares at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 06:13:06 2007 From: nayyares at gmail.com (Nayyar Ahmad) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:13:06 +0200 Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <470F05A4.8010009@redhat.com> References: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> <470F05A4.8010009@redhat.com> Message-ID: <8e1ee2a30710212313w4a58ada9ic4ebbb909f6507f8@mail.gmail.com> Logo 5 :-) On 10/12/07, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > Hi folks, > > Let's get this over with and get a final logo, okay? > > I went through all the feedback and came up with the following set of 5 > logos for final consideration, including proposals from Francesco > Fantoni, Nicu Buculei, and myself: > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos-final.png > > Which should be *the* logo? Which fits the Fedora 'feel' or 'brand' the > best? > > ~m > > p.s. the font used in all of them is MgOpen Modata, licensed under the > Open Font License. ;-) > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Nayyar Ahmad RHCE (ID:804006858622745) Skype: nayyares Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aadarsh.b at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 06:26:57 2007 From: aadarsh.b at gmail.com (Bhardwaj, Aadarsh) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:26:57 +0700 Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <8e1ee2a30710212313w4a58ada9ic4ebbb909f6507f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> <470F05A4.8010009@redhat.com> <8e1ee2a30710212313w4a58ada9ic4ebbb909f6507f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Logo 2 :) On 10/22/07, Nayyar Ahmad wrote: > > Logo 5 :-) > > On 10/12/07, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > > > Hi folks, > > > > Let's get this over with and get a final logo, okay? > > > > I went through all the feedback and came up with the following set of 5 > > logos for final consideration, including proposals from Francesco > > Fantoni, Nicu Buculei, and myself: > > > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos-final.png > > > > Which should be *the* logo? Which fits the Fedora 'feel' or 'brand' the > > best? > > > > ~m > > > > p.s. the font used in all of them is MgOpen Modata, licensed under the > > Open Font License. ;-) > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > -- > Nayyar Ahmad > RHCE (ID:804006858622745) > Skype: nayyares > Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- "A positive attitude can really make dreams come true -- it did for me" With Regards, Adarsh B Voice: (+62) 815 73202526 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From prasad.dhanakodi at yahoo.co.in Mon Oct 22 06:44:16 2007 From: prasad.dhanakodi at yahoo.co.in (Prasad Dhanakodi) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:44:16 +0100 (BST) Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <973230.81862.qm@web94112.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Logo 5:) "Bhardwaj, Aadarsh" wrote: Logo 2 :) On 10/22/07, Nayyar Ahmad wrote: Logo 5 :-) On 10/12/07, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: Hi folks, Let's get this over with and get a final logo, okay? I went through all the feedback and came up with the following set of 5 logos for final consideration, including proposals from Francesco Fantoni, Nicu Buculei, and myself: http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/art/logos/fudcon/fudcon-logos-final.png Which should be *the* logo? Which fits the Fedora 'feel' or 'brand' the best? ~m p.s. the font used in all of them is MgOpen Modata, licensed under the Open Font License. ;-) -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list -- Nayyar Ahmad RHCE (ID:804006858622745) Skype: nayyares Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list -- "A positive attitude can really make dreams come true -- it did for me" With Regards, Adarsh B Voice: (+62) 815 73202526 -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list --------------------------------- Why delete messages? Unlimited storage is just a click away. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fcrippa at byte-code.com Mon Oct 22 08:14:00 2007 From: fcrippa at byte-code.com (Francesco Crippa) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:14:00 +0200 (CEST) Subject: FUDCon logo In-Reply-To: <471B0A8E.9030600@redhat.com> References: <47040F27.3080803@redhat.com> <471B0A8E.9030600@redhat.com> Message-ID: <41918.213.45.181.236.1193040840.squirrel@mail.byte-code.com> > M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > [...] > Thanks to everyone who submitted designs, helped out, and/or gave > feedback! > [...] logo 1 :-) bye francesco From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Mon Oct 22 11:17:36 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:17:36 +0100 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview Message-ID: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> Hey, A week or so ago we talked on IRC about creating an "overview" document of all the new features in Fedora...kind of like a leaflet sort of thing? Has there been any progress on this? If not, I might try and do a bit this afternoon on it... Best wishes, Jon From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Mon Oct 22 11:19:20 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:19:20 +0100 Subject: Feature previews Message-ID: <3263b11b0710220419w7a815229j423f7d11a60c4e07@mail.gmail.com> Hey again, Needed a new subject :p Anybody got any suggestions about the best way to get previews of codec buddy and iced tea put together? I think these two are really cool features and definitely need to be made more public, but I'm not sure who the developers are/where to contact them etc... Perhaps it might be an idea to just put together a screencast of each in use; codec buddy this is simple to imagine, but iced tea? Maybe a demo of a java web application being used or something? Best wishes, Jon From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 22 11:23:12 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:53:12 +0630 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hey, > > A week or so ago we talked on IRC about creating an "overview" > document of all the new features in Fedora...kind of like a leaflet > sort of thing? > > Has there been any progress on this? If not, I might try and do a bit > this afternoon on it... I said I would but I haven't done it yet. If you are going to do, do it in the wiki so that I and others interested can participate. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 22 11:36:47 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:06:47 +0630 Subject: Feature previews In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710220419w7a815229j423f7d11a60c4e07@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710220419w7a815229j423f7d11a60c4e07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <471C8B4F.4090607@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hey again, > > Needed a new subject :p > > Anybody got any suggestions about the best way to get previews of > codec buddy and iced tea put together? I think these two are really > cool features and definitely need to be made more public, but I'm not > sure who the developers are/where to contact them etc... For Codec Buddy, it is Bastien Nocera, bnocera AT redhat.com who did the packaging and integration. Gstream developer and Fluendo guy, Thomas Vander Stichele, thomas AT fluendo.com who developed the wrapper. The questions surrounding this are: How did the work start? Is Fluendo contributing back anything back to Fedora or gstreamer? Pointing to other sources besides Fluendo including a third party repository for those in regions that don't enforce software patents? Why just totem? What about other gstreamer applications? Packaged application instead of a tarball What are the future plans? > Perhaps it might be an idea to just put together a screencast of eac, > in use; codec buddy this is simple to imagine, but iced tea? Maybe a > demo of a java web application being used or something? For Iced Tea, I believe the lead Red Hat developer who did the original work was Thomas Fitzsimmons fitzsim AT redhat.com. Just a good explanation of the feature along with a screecast/ some screenshots should work well. Questions surrounding this are: How much work was involved? Integration between GCJ applet and Iced tea in Fedora 8 Porting Iced Tea to other architectures Collaboration with Sun? What is the future of a liberated Java? What other Java related work is going in Fedora? Rahul From vd at paradigma.pt Mon Oct 22 12:44:52 2007 From: vd at paradigma.pt (Vitor Domingos) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:44:52 +0100 Subject: Surely we have more than 300 new features... In-Reply-To: <20071021230753.02b2f1d3@j2solutions.net> References: <20071021230753.02b2f1d3@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <471C9B44.6050304@paradigma.pt> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 That's a big bag of crap... But we need to put on one side the features for the desktop users and on the other for system administrators or developers. That what's in handy and not enumerating all what F8 can do. On 10/22/2007 04:07 AM, jkeating wrote: > http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html > > - -- //VD -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHHJtEzLeQsaqPtNIRCnf9AJ9dkFBkIRyElSjaJLpZBKjXkWWVEQCfYmpI N9iOR3pGMrUxHgkLR1DCnuk= =rpoq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Mon Oct 22 13:11:49 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:11:49 +0100 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> On 22/10/2007, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > Hey, > > > > A week or so ago we talked on IRC about creating an "overview" > > document of all the new features in Fedora...kind of like a leaflet > > sort of thing? > > > > Has there been any progress on this? If not, I might try and do a bit > > this afternoon on it... > > I said I would but I haven't done it yet. If you are going to do, do it > in the wiki so that I and others interested can participate. Sure :D Jon From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Oct 22 14:21:54 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:21:54 +0800 Subject: Feature previews In-Reply-To: <471C8B4F.4090607@fedoraproject.org> References: <3263b11b0710220419w7a815229j423f7d11a60c4e07@mail.gmail.com> <471C8B4F.4090607@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1193062914.21565.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-10-22 at 18:06 +0630, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > Hey again, > > > > Needed a new subject :p > > > > Anybody got any suggestions about the best way to get previews of > > codec buddy and iced tea put together? I think these two are really > > cool features and definitely need to be made more public, but I'm not > > sure who the developers are/where to contact them etc... > > For Codec Buddy, it is Bastien Nocera, bnocera AT redhat.com who did the > packaging and integration. Gstream developer and Fluendo guy, Thomas > Vander Stichele, thomas AT fluendo.com who developed the wrapper. > > The questions surrounding this are: > > How did the work start? > > Is Fluendo contributing back anything back to Fedora or gstreamer? > > Pointing to other sources besides Fluendo including a third party > repository for those in regions that don't enforce software patents? > > Why just totem? What about other gstreamer applications? > > Packaged application instead of a tarball > > What are the future plans? > > > Perhaps it might be an idea to just put together a screencast of eac, > > in use; codec buddy this is simple to imagine, but iced tea? Maybe a > > demo of a java web application being used or something? > > For Iced Tea, I believe the lead Red Hat developer who did the original > work was Thomas Fitzsimmons fitzsim AT redhat.com. Just a good > explanation of the feature along with a screecast/ some screenshots > should work well. > > Questions surrounding this are: > > How much work was involved? > > Integration between GCJ applet and Iced tea in Fedora 8 > > Porting Iced Tea to other architectures > > Collaboration with Sun? > > What is the future of a liberated Java? > > What other Java related work is going in Fedora? > > Rahul > yum-utils with the additional packages. Yum addon's namely yum-cron and yum-presto Changing desktop (can't remember what it is called) New 2.6.23 kernel what changes improvements. Thats just off the top of my head there are a few more things I have thought wow these are great. Cheers, Marc From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Mon Oct 22 14:38:46 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:38:46 +0100 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> Hey again, So I've started a bit of work on this, just rough I guess. For people who are interested, it's going up in my personal wiki area (unless somebody knows of a better location for drafting it): http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JonathanRoberts/F8Overview The PulseAudio bit is more or less what I had in mind, except we could include screenshots/screencasts where relevant too. Anything much longer is going to be a lot of work I think. What do people think about trying to beautify it a bit too? Rather than just having a plain wiki page? Scribus PDF as an option for reading it? Would art team people be interested in this? Jon From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 22 13:40:43 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:10:43 +0630 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <471CA85B.4020600@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > What do people think about trying to beautify it a bit too? Rather > than just having a plain wiki page? Scribus PDF as an option for > reading it? Would art team people be interested in this? PDF is definitely needed for wider redistribution. Anyone here have any experience with Scribus or other software? Rahul From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Mon Oct 22 14:46:50 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:46:50 +0100 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <471CA85B.4020600@fedoraproject.org> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> <471CA85B.4020600@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710220746n40a968b3w6fe9bad4f9fcbb0d@mail.gmail.com> >PDF is definitely needed for wider redistribution. Anyone here have any >experience with Scribus or other software? I'll forward this along to the art-list and see if anybody there is interested in helping out... Best, Jon From jkeating at j2solutions.net Mon Oct 22 14:47:52 2007 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (jkeating) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:47:52 -0400 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <471CA85B.4020600@fedoraproject.org> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> <471CA85B.4020600@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20071022104752.57e2a532@j2solutions.net> On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:10:43 +0630 Rahul Sundaram wrote: > PDF is definitely needed for wider redistribution. Anyone here have > any experience with Scribus or other software? Why does it have to be Scribus? Any content that can be printed can be turned into a PDF. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Mon Oct 22 14:53:31 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:53:31 +0100 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <20071022104752.57e2a532@j2solutions.net> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> <471CA85B.4020600@fedoraproject.org> <20071022104752.57e2a532@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710220753h10ec7abci35a7d99c258bb350@mail.gmail.com> On 22/10/2007, jkeating wrote: > On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:10:43 +0630 > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > PDF is definitely needed for wider redistribution. Anyone here have > > any experience with Scribus or other software? > > Why does it have to be Scribus? Any content that can be printed can be > turned into a PDF. It doesn't necessarily need to be Scribus, but Scribus is perhaps the most flexible tool for creating attractively laid out documents (DTP etc)...but whatever anybody wants to work in is cool with me :D Jon > > -- > Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) > Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) > GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > From michael.d.beckwith at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 14:56:24 2007 From: michael.d.beckwith at gmail.com (Michael Beckwith) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:56:24 -0500 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <471CA85B.4020600@fedoraproject.org> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> <471CA85B.4020600@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <471CBA18.2030403@gmail.com> I have layout experience from 2 semesters of university newspaper. Just get me the bodies of text and what images you want used and I can throw some stuff together. Any images and official titles for the top of the first page that you want would be greatly appreciated as well, but I can create some too if I need to. Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Jonathan Roberts wrote: > >> >> What do people think about trying to beautify it a bit too? Rather >> than just having a plain wiki page? Scribus PDF as an option for >> reading it? Would art team people be interested in this? > > PDF is definitely needed for wider redistribution. Anyone here have > any experience with Scribus or other software? > > Rahul > -- ~Michael http://ridleytx.structed.net (for now) http://www.michaelbox.net (eventually) From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 22 15:02:34 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:02:34 +0300 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <471CBB8A.9020705@nicubunu.ro> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > What do people think about trying to beautify it a bit too? Rather > than just having a plain wiki page? Scribus PDF as an option for > reading it? Would art team people be interested in this? You can make it look like the old GNOME release tours, simple and beautiful: http://www.gnome.org/~davyd/gnome-2-12/ Or like the OS X features preview (a bit to crowded and hard to read due to small fonts): http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html Or maybe something in-between. Those two look good (IMO) in HTML format so producing a PDF from that HTML is a good solution. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 22 14:02:02 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:32:02 +0630 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <20071022104752.57e2a532@j2solutions.net> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> <471CA85B.4020600@fedoraproject.org> <20071022104752.57e2a532@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <471CAD5A.8030404@fedoraproject.org> jkeating wrote: > On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:10:43 +0630 > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> PDF is definitely needed for wider redistribution. Anyone here have >> any experience with Scribus or other software? > > Why does it have to be Scribus? Any content that can be printed can be > turned into a PDF. Good publishing software like Scribus can be used to create very beautiful and professional looking PDF files (in the hands of people experienced with it) compared to pushing in a wiki page into PDF format. Not a must but can certainly make a big difference. Rahul From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Mon Oct 22 21:08:45 2007 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:08:45 -0200 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle Message-ID: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi All!! I'm thinking about the Fedora Life Cycle and i have some conclusions: - - 13 months is a very short life cycle time and it's a bad thing thinking in the Fedora Marketing (I am constantly asked about it in my lectures). - - with this short time we cannot use Fedora in production servers. In Brazil we have BIG FEDORA CASES and it's a major concern of Brazilian TI Managers. - - many of linux distributions has more than 13 months of life cycle So,how can we extend that life cycle to increase for at least 2 years by release? IMHO, we should do this!! Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira http://www.projetofedora.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHHRFdPg3HAC1vlg4RAkwEAJ9yCrxDLPzwgAaoyMjMSqMJpHPEVQCgn6U3 84Tlew5BXAEyNvGZWVa7o7w= =T5JA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gdk at redhat.com Mon Oct 22 21:21:44 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Oct 2007, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > I'm thinking about the Fedora Life Cycle and i have some conclusions: > > - - 13 months is a very short life cycle time and it's a bad thing > thinking in the Fedora Marketing (I am constantly asked about it in my > lectures). > - - with this short time we cannot use Fedora in production servers. In > Brazil we have BIG FEDORA CASES and it's a major concern of Brazilian TI > Managers. > - - many of linux distributions has more than 13 months of life cycle > > So,how can we extend that life cycle to increase for at least 2 years by > release? > > IMHO, we should do this!! Appreciate the enthusiasm, Rodrigo, but again: The goal of Fedora is rapid innovation. The goal of RHEL/Centos is long-term supportability. These two goals tend to be mutually exclusive. The Fedora Legacy project tried to maintain Fedora releases for a longer period of time. Legacy failed because no one volunteered to support it. Why? Because they were all using Centos. IMHO, it's far more interesting -- and useful -- to make upgrades work flawlessly. --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From jkeating at j2solutions.net Mon Oct 22 21:19:49 2007 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (jkeating) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:19:49 -0400 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <20071022171949.12e0e645@j2solutions.net> On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:08:45 -0200 Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > I'm thinking about the Fedora Life Cycle and i have some conclusions: > > - - 13 months is a very short life cycle time and it's a bad thing > thinking in the Fedora Marketing (I am constantly asked about it in my > lectures). > - - with this short time we cannot use Fedora in production servers. > In Brazil we have BIG FEDORA CASES and it's a major concern of > Brazilian TI Managers. > - - many of linux distributions has more than 13 months of life cycle > > So,how can we extend that life cycle to increase for at least 2 years > by release? > > IMHO, we should do this!! No, we shouldn't. When 13 months is not long enough for you, we have wonderful options for long term support. RHEL and CentOS. They're based on Fedora but have a longer life span (7 years) and a slower release cycle (every 2~ years). With these options, why in the world would we want to put that effort into Fedora itself? -- Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 22 21:42:13 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:42:13 +0200 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <20071022171949.12e0e645@j2solutions.net> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <20071022171949.12e0e645@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0710221442y329376e3g1fd8dfe1fafad26@mail.gmail.com> On 10/22/07, jkeating wrote: > No, we shouldn't. When 13 months is not long enough for you, we have > wonderful options for long term support. RHEL and CentOS. They're > based on Fedora but have a longer life span (7 years) and a slower > release cycle (every 2~ years). perhaps someone could detail a bit how to use a Fedora box with EPEL repositories. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From jkeating at j2solutions.net Mon Oct 22 21:50:06 2007 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (jkeating) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:50:06 -0400 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0710221442y329376e3g1fd8dfe1fafad26@mail.gmail.com> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <20071022171949.12e0e645@j2solutions.net> <13dbfe4f0710221442y329376e3g1fd8dfe1fafad26@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071022175006.55d1051c@j2solutions.net> On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:42:13 +0200 "Chitlesh GOORAH" wrote: > perhaps someone could detail a bit how to use a Fedora box with EPEL > repositories. You mean a RHEL or CentOS box with EPEL repositories? -- Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Mon Oct 22 20:55:22 2007 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:55:22 -0400 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> Greg DeKoenigsberg escribi?: > > IMHO, it's far more interesting -- and useful -- to make upgrades work > flawlessly. > > --g > I couldn't agree more with you on this! Theoretically upgrades shouldn't need to be too difficult, heck you can sort of do them "by hand" if you know what files you need and more specifically, what /parts/ of the files are needed... I'm specifically talking about passwd, shadow, group & gshadow, and paths such as /home, /root, etc. Of course there's also the "individual applications' config files, which can still be worked out. I've been thinking about this and it shouldn't be too difficult, but have been told time and time again that such a feat is impractical and nonsensical in the long run. I'm not convinced, but, then again it could be made possible for an automatic upgrade process to also be clean enough... I'll give it a bit more thought and maybe post an RFE on Bgzilla about the issue. From gdk at redhat.com Mon Oct 22 22:15:37 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:15:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Oct 2007, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: >> IMHO, it's far more interesting -- and useful -- to make upgrades work >> flawlessly. > > I couldn't agree more with you on this! Theoretically upgrades shouldn't > need to be too difficult, heck you can sort of do them "by hand" if you > know what files you need and more specifically, what /parts/ of the > files are needed... I'm specifically talking about passwd, shadow, group > & gshadow, and paths such as /home, /root, etc. Of course there's also > the "individual applications' config files, which can still be worked > out. I've been thinking about this and it shouldn't be too difficult, > but have been told time and time again that such a feat is impractical > and nonsensical in the long run. I'm not convinced, but, then again it > could be made possible for an automatic upgrade process to also be clean > enough... I'll give it a bit more thought and maybe post an RFE on > Bgzilla about the issue. The current thinking (which I agree with) favors Anaconda-based upgrading with a new and improved online component, rather than yum-based upgrading. Take a look at the following feature proposal: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/PreUpgrade Think about your use cases in the context of this feature, and maybe add any comments you have to the wiki page itself. --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 22:31:51 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:31:51 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <47134BC9.9020702@mwiriadi.id.au> References: <13dbfe4f0710050959q166702c7oae445b4d322659a8@mail.gmail.com> <47067566.5010404@kanarip.com> <1191775036.4831.50.camel@Ulises> <47093540.4070104@kanarip.com> <1191969397.10798.41.camel@Ulises> <470C09CA.8040201@fedoraproject.org> <1192397601.3784.142.camel@Ulises> <20071014174449.11752944@j2solutions.net> <1192399727.3784.169.camel@Ulises> <47134BC9.9020702@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1193092311.3843.224.camel@Ulises> El lun, 15-10-2007 a las 19:15 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra escribi?: > > > Do you seriously think that the only reason people install Fedora is > because of Livna. I didn't say that. Things are not just white or black, despite some people immediately tend to it. Things in life have usually a good load of complexity (specially if we're talking about human systems). Sarcastic expressions are a good way to manifest itself. Therefore, you should accept the part of true that all them contain (supposing you are interested in knowing truths..). > That thought is ludicrous Livna is an addon repository that supports non-free software. Obviously.. :-) The average end user, after installing a O.S.like Fedora, if that was successfully, then the first thing he's much probably going to do will be.. going for "those things" that make that core/robust system even better, since all them turn the system into something prepared to the common custom (Flash player, Java, graphics drivers, most popular audio and video codecs and decoders, players, MS TrueType core fonts, etc...). Just facts: what you want to do with them will be a issue entirely of yours.. > While not degrading what > they do since some contribute to Fedora as a whole. They do not create > the distribution at all. The majority of the distribution is created by > people who work for RedHat (I think) a lot also from the community. > Obviously.. > The fact that Ubuntu has bigger numbers is due in part to the fact that > it is easier to install than Fedora although that is changing. Not at all. You're completely wrong. Neither Ubuntu is easier to install than Fedora nor Ubuntu has bigger number of users for that particular reason. Please, don't fall into the self-delusion. There are several,powerful reasons to explain why Ubuntu is so much successful, unlike Fedora. Thinking that fact is due to a _supposed_ easier installation is almost a (bad) myth. It's simply false. Both of them are equally "easy-to-install" for someone who is trying to install a O.S. with some common sense. Particularly, I couldn't say about any greater difficulty in one of them against the another. Again, I remember to you (and everyone who is reading this) that most of the people that use computers don't install O.S.'s, ...neither in a short while nor never into his/her whole life! ..and that doesn't depends on how much easy or difficult would be the process. People usually buy computers with some O.S. already installed and ready for use. Hence the importance of news where we can read that somewhat manufacturer is going to sell X computers with X O.S. pre-installed on it... (Here again, Ubuntu and others like Suse are growing for that via, but that's not the issue now..). > They > also offer non-free software as default. I'm not to sure about > PCLinuxOS but they are making a charge. One thing that Fedora does > which is similar in nature to Debian is that 'we' are the base for other > distro's. Ubuntu get there software from Debian. We are the equivalent > to Debian. That's not correct in strict sense. According with your comparison, where do you put Red Hat products? That's not make sense.. > The big difference is that we are totally non-free in the > sense that no repositories that are under the control of Fedora have > non-free software. That is a bold statement and one that deserves credit. > To lean on the existence or absence of non-free bytes accessible directly or indirectly.. in order to marking differences is simply an hypocritical attitude. And a big mistake facing to the possible audience, IMO. People isn't into those tiny shades.. After all, I've already told you what they're going to do into the next step... > Fedora takes opensource software and improves it and takes it to another > level. Make no mistake if Fedora didn't exist the world would be worse > off. While Fedora can go down the path of offering non-free software I > think I would be disheartened by this action and to me Fedora would lose > what it stands for. > That's your feeling, no more no less. Even we could accept that you're right, but reality is what is. Nature experience shows us that there are no rules without (sometimes tons of) exceptions. Usually the mere survive goes through knowing and to apply that, being able to be flexible. However, proceeding so much strictly in most of the situations (black or white, etc..) would probably take people who think in that way to more-slave situations instead of another more really free. I suppose there are lots of feelings and personal reasons about why someone in particular chooses Fedora. Yours are clear according with you said before, but I doubt what would be _the reason_ for most of the Fedora-users... (It's a matter of opinion.. you always can make a survey in the main fedora list to clear up.. > > Above all your criticism is welcome but your opinions should be tempered > with respect for the people that give you a product that is FREE and > they (the devs) strive hard to improve it. I've repeated this point many times along the thread, please re-read them because one thing is being respectful (truly) and another one, very different, is being in silence without possibility of telling opinions. The last one would be curiously, in my opinion.., not being really respectful with the work made from someone. I'm a person that doesn't make opinions about those things that doesn't care him. Fortunately, I come from a free culture, from a free country. Criticism is essential for make improvements into something; submissive behaviours just lead to the incline and the general impoverishment. I don't think that because of the mere reason that some product is free (gratis), that must to escape it from opinions (critics). Also, I don't know much people that uses Linux (I mean the non-pay Linux distros...) just because it is free (gratis).. People who choose Linux (as a personal decision, those folks in particular) value much more other things apart from price zero, e.g. power, security, reliability, versatility, justice (fair), etc. (those things that maybe they can't find in others O.S.) Do not forget that most of the Windows of the planet are "price zero" indeed.. and who uses Linux is clearly avoiding them despite all. > While it may not be perfect > they are doing the best that they can and helping them improve it is > more helpful than saying what you product sucks I'm going to Livna. > I didn't say that. Probably, you didn't read carefully. I like Fedora as product (I don't love it as an enthusiastic, but it's OK..). I use Fedora. That's my main O.S. at home. Since I'm not an I.T. student, nor an IT engineer, where I suppose they are encouraged to use UNIX/Linux during its formation, I think that choosing these flavours truly freely, also it's very commendable. I came to Linux with RH9 (yes, Red Hat 9, the last free (gratis) from this brand). Then, since I have none enterprise at home, etc...me, such as many many people into similar circumstances.., got into a new flavour called Fedora, being then this maintained by Red Hat, IIRC.. On the other hand, _I do not use any other than Linux (nor I have another O.S. installed)_ ever, since 2001. How many people (inside the Linux universe) can say the same? You maybe? So man, believe me when I tell you I know where I am. I've not an I.T. University degree, but I have enough experience in live to have strong opinions about all things that I care. I'm a Sciences' man (PhD and Bachelor's degree). I know where I am, and about things either that I like them or I don't like.. I say my opinion, clearly and roundly if necessary, and sometimes with humour, sometimes with sarcams, sometimes acidly,... and that doesn't have to mean absence of respect (at least what I understand about it..) > Every new kernel I test out the wireless iwl3945 driver to see if its > improved on my laptop. It hasn't got the range as what the ipw3945 > driver does however I'm hopeful that it's fixed in F8. The reason I > test it is so I can offer feedback to the devs who strive hard to fix > the issues. Spend a bit of time on the fedora-devel list to see how > active they all are and you might understand why I support this distro > so much. Marc, I try to have a decent personal life.. :-) No, seriously.. Being realistic, a devel-list, even just lurking, would surpass to me at all. On the other hand, that's a proof of your high energy! Admirable, please don't close your mind (otherwise you would be going from that sublime status to a fanatic one, who knows..) > I have tested a heap of different versions of linux but > overall I have stuck with Fedora since Fedora Core 1 because it was > noticeable that overall the people cared about what they did. It was > like a badge of honour that they put out a quality product. I agree with you, the core of Fedora is a very good product indeed (e.g. improved wireless support in the last two numbers, RH kernels that support most of the upcoming new hardware, etc...). But IMHO there are many things around it that they aren't being so good.. I tried to evidence them here along the past posts in this list. I won't to repeat me again. > > Thanks > > Marc > Take care, Daniel From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Mon Oct 22 22:35:30 2007 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:35:30 -0200 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 By example i will use the biggest Brazilian Fedora Case. SERPRO (Brazilian Government IT Department) has more than 8.000 desktop stations and several servers using Fedora inside spread in 26 Brazilian States. Do you have any idea of what i'm talking about ???? How can they update it every six month?? It's a craziness !! It involves planning and a lot of work! it's not that simple!!!!! IMHO the release and life cycle must be increased! RELEASE -> 1 per year LIFE CYCLE -> 2 years It'd reduce the Artwork, Free Media, Marketing, Translation, Documentation and Packing issues. .... and mirrors, band use and others things!!!!!!!!!! Best regards! Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira Gian Paolo Mureddu escreveu: > Greg DeKoenigsberg escribi?: >> >> IMHO, it's far more interesting -- and useful -- to make upgrades work >> flawlessly. >> >> --g >> > > > I couldn't agree more with you on this! Theoretically upgrades shouldn't > need to be too difficult, heck you can sort of do them "by hand" if you > know what files you need and more specifically, what /parts/ of the > files are needed... I'm specifically talking about passwd, shadow, group > & gshadow, and paths such as /home, /root, etc. Of course there's also > the "individual applications' config files, which can still be worked > out. I've been thinking about this and it shouldn't be too difficult, > but have been told time and time again that such a feat is impractical > and nonsensical in the long run. I'm not convinced, but, then again it > could be made possible for an automatic upgrade process to also be clean > enough... I'll give it a bit more thought and maybe post an RFE on > Bgzilla about the issue. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHHSWtPg3HAC1vlg4RAgNJAJoD9ulktv1IFbej0mafvHdxxgcZEwCbBkBA OqO1pmAwzKEsKS0v+25HonQ= =FQbb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From david at lovesunix.net Mon Oct 22 22:56:59 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:56:59 +0200 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <1193093819.3107.12.camel@dawkins> man, 22 10 2007 kl. 20:35 -0200, skrev Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > By example i will use the biggest Brazilian Fedora Case. > > SERPRO (Brazilian Government IT Department) has more than 8.000 desktop > stations and several servers using Fedora inside spread in 26 Brazilian > States. > > Do you have any idea of what i'm talking about ???? > > How can they update it every six month?? It's a craziness !! They knew our release schedule when they deployed right? So why is it a problem now and why are you basically demanding that we redesign a successful model to avoid your problem given that you were warned in advance. I would suggest that if SERPRO needs a longer cycle they could work with Fedora to branch a release like the upcoming Fedora 8 and volunteer to do all the maintance work to give it the lifecycle they need. I'm sure such an investment would be considered valuable by webhosts and the likes. Alternatively you could go with CentOS which is built on Fedora but with a 7 year life span and release major releases every ~2 years. That seems more suitable for your needs. Fedora is a rapidly evolving platform, we depend and commit to the 6 month cycle with a reasonable lifecycle giving us that. The only thing we can do is increase testing of the upgrade process to make it as painfree for you as possible, but we'll need and value your help in doing this. More hands on deck is always good. Your friendly neighborhood QA monkey -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From wdc at MIT.EDU Mon Oct 22 22:58:01 2007 From: wdc at MIT.EDU (William Cattey) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:58:01 -0400 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <82BD0DE6-EB75-40DB-A881-367684243EAB@mit.edu> I too have been agonizing over product cycles. Enterprise is stable, but on the desktop often does not get critical device drivers until too late in the life cycle of hardware. And the hardware I'm looking at is not the fancy gamer platform. It is the workhorse enterprise desktop platform like Dell Optiplex. Furthermore Enterprise does not get certain new apps quite soon enough. For example OpenOffice 2.0 and Firefox 2.0. (I have had some very interesting conversations with some of the folks who were majorly involved in the decisions about roll-out of apps, and I appreciate the sensible rationale expressed for the path taken. Nevertheless, I took the heat when the majority of the world moved on to a version of the app not supported by Red Hat. Doing an mit-only early deploy of an app is something we're investigating, but it too has issues.) Fedora would be an attractive alternative except that it is too volatile. Indeed many difficult release engineering problems go away with a 1 year release and 2 year life cycle. EPEL is an interesting and possibly helpful alternative because it gets some of the interesting apps from Fedora going on Enterprise. Unfortunately, that doesn't solve the, "I can't buy the desktops on sale this year because the disk driver, and/or the ethernet driver and/or the video driver won't be back ported from Fedora to Enterprise until the machines on sale this year are no longer available." Jesse Keating and Greg DeKoeningsberg say that stability is what RHEL and CentOS are for, and that it's inappropriate to try and move Fedora away from the benefits of the current state -- great responsiveness, and tractable release engineering aspects for updates. Indeed if the problem is framed, "stability versus innovation" the two aspects are in conflict. My question is: How can use cases for hardware available now, requiring a few critical apps needing to be ported now be accommodated? Neither Enterprise nor Fedora fits well enough at the present time. -Bill ---- William Cattey Linux Platform Coordinator MIT Information Services & Technology N42-040M, 617-253-0140, wdc at mit.edu http://web.mit.edu/wdc/www/ On Oct 22, 2007, at 6:35 PM, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > By example i will use the biggest Brazilian Fedora Case. > > SERPRO (Brazilian Government IT Department) has more than 8.000 > desktop > stations and several servers using Fedora inside spread in 26 > Brazilian > States. > > Do you have any idea of what i'm talking about ???? > > How can they update it every six month?? It's a craziness !! > > It involves planning and a lot of work! it's not that simple!!!!! > > IMHO the release and life cycle must be increased! > > RELEASE -> 1 per year > LIFE CYCLE -> 2 years > > It'd reduce the Artwork, Free Media, Marketing, Translation, > Documentation and Packing issues. > > .... and mirrors, band use and others things!!!!!!!!!! > > Best regards! > > Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira > > > Gian Paolo Mureddu escreveu: >> Greg DeKoenigsberg escribi?: >>> >>> IMHO, it's far more interesting -- and useful -- to make upgrades >>> work >>> flawlessly. >>> >>> --g >>> >> >> >> I couldn't agree more with you on this! Theoretically upgrades >> shouldn't >> need to be too difficult, heck you can sort of do them "by hand" >> if you >> know what files you need and more specifically, what /parts/ of the >> files are needed... I'm specifically talking about passwd, shadow, >> group >> & gshadow, and paths such as /home, /root, etc. Of course there's >> also >> the "individual applications' config files, which can still be worked >> out. I've been thinking about this and it shouldn't be too difficult, >> but have been told time and time again that such a feat is >> impractical >> and nonsensical in the long run. I'm not convinced, but, then >> again it >> could be made possible for an automatic upgrade process to also be >> clean >> enough... I'll give it a bit more thought and maybe post an RFE on >> Bgzilla about the issue. >> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFHHSWtPg3HAC1vlg4RAgNJAJoD9ulktv1IFbej0mafvHdxxgcZEwCbBkBA > OqO1pmAwzKEsKS0v+25HonQ= > =FQbb > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list From b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 23:12:53 2007 From: b2.mdr.magarzo at gmail.com (M Daniel R Magarzo) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:12:53 +0200 Subject: Fedora: Freedom is a Feature. In-Reply-To: <200710150909.20219.simon@simline.de> References: <47094FEE.8040308@fedoraproject.org> <1192400699.3784.182.camel@Ulises> <200710150909.20219.simon@simline.de> Message-ID: <1193094773.3843.263.camel@Ulises> El lun, 15-10-2007 a las 09:09 +0200, JoergSimon escribi?: > > M Daniel R Magarzo, critic is welcome, but ... please do me a favor, unsubscribe. Hahaha..! :-)) Please, firstly _try_ to do yourself a favour.. open your narrow mind. -First degree: higher status. Learn to accept (maybe digest) critics, that means.. first that you probably are reading what you don't like (an opinion or whatever..) -Second degree: the above would be good, but if you are unable to get into it (most probably..), just try to remember (repeating helps) the following: push the DEL key when I do not want to read mails from that guy.. After all, there were no many emails. > > you are unkind and not constructive, However, you are very kind..! ;-) The most unkind email comes precisely... from you, and your existencial void (sorry.., I did mean "constructive existence"..). :-) > Good bye! > > :-) Ummmm... I love you too.. From efeldhusen.lists at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 23:43:56 2007 From: efeldhusen.lists at gmail.com (Eric J. Feldhusen) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:43:56 -0400 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <471D35BC.8090808@gmail.com> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > IMHO, it's far more interesting -- and useful -- to make upgrades work > flawlessly. +1 -- Eric Feldhusen Network Administrator http://www.remc1.org eric at remc1.org PO Box 270 (906) 482-4520 x239 809 Hecla St (906) 482-5031 fax Hancock, MI 49930 (906) 370 6202 mobile From hudsonman35 at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 23:55:34 2007 From: hudsonman35 at gmail.com (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:55:34 -0400 Subject: PDF, Page Layout, and FUDcon Inquiries Message-ID: OpenOffice Writer, Scribus, what else does PDF? I need to know so when I find other Writers to work with for the LinuxGlobe Print/PDF Magazine, any Page Layout Software under GPL or LGPL that uses PDF is welcomed! Is FUDcon in Boston and will there be a Virtual "Extension" of it so you can "be there" too? Mark McLaughlin linuxglobe.wordpress.com Hudson, MA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnanney at mscoast.com Tue Oct 23 00:03:37 2007 From: jnanney at mscoast.com (Jim Nanney) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:03:37 -0500 Subject: PDF, Page Layout, and FUDcon Inquiries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <471D3A59.300@mscoast.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 You can print from anything to a file, then use ps2pdf to create a pdf. There are some limitations to ps2pdf though. Check the man page for more info. Markus McLaughlin wrote: > OpenOffice Writer, Scribus, what else does PDF? I need to know so when > I find other Writers to work with for the LinuxGlobe Print/PDF Magazine, > any Page Layout Software under GPL or LGPL that uses PDF is welcomed! > Is FUDcon in Boston and will there be a Virtual "Extension" of it so you > can "be there" too? > > Mark McLaughlin > linuxglobe.wordpress.com > Hudson, MA > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHHTpY3GRPSy3vDJMRAprPAKDD0+AtYROgqawydMCL3tULOxbjAACcC9Ou t2xGbXlfrE1agvO8C4MOLAY= =4h6L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Mon Oct 22 23:16:42 2007 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:16:42 -0400 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <471D2F5A.2060003@prodigy.net.mx> Greg DeKoenigsberg escribi?: > On Mon, 22 Oct 2007, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > >>> IMHO, it's far more interesting -- and useful -- to make upgrades >>> work flawlessly. >> >> I couldn't agree more with you on this! Theoretically upgrades >> shouldn't need to be too difficult, heck you can sort of do them "by >> hand" if you know what files you need and more specifically, what >> /parts/ of the files are needed... I'm specifically talking about >> passwd, shadow, group & gshadow, and paths such as /home, /root, etc. >> Of course there's also the "individual applications' config files, >> which can still be worked out. I've been thinking about this and it >> shouldn't be too difficult, but have been told time and time again >> that such a feat is impractical and nonsensical in the long run. I'm >> not convinced, but, then again it could be made possible for an >> automatic upgrade process to also be clean enough... I'll give it a >> bit more thought and maybe post an RFE on Bgzilla about the issue. > > The current thinking (which I agree with) favors Anaconda-based > upgrading with a new and improved online component, rather than > yum-based upgrading. Take a look at the following feature proposal: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/PreUpgrade > > Think about your use cases in the context of this feature, and maybe > add any comments you have to the wiki page itself. > > --g > Indeed, what I have thought of is /primarily/ for Anaconda. Yum could also be involved, but first one thing at a time, a better finer control over the upgrade from within Anaconda for tasks where GUI does make sense for this would be a priority before making "networked upgrades" work with Yum. Simple stuff like being able to "choose" which users you want to migrate, nuke everything in the disk, except from chosen directories (/home/{user1,user2...n}, /root, /usr/local, etc), allowing the distribution to first get in place all the files and configurations it needs, THEN modify whatever files with only the information "salvaged" from the previous one. Getting that to be as clean and painless as possible should be a priority for Anaconda upgrading. Will take a look at the Wiki and see what other ideas can I toss around. From jkeating at j2solutions.net Tue Oct 23 01:15:02 2007 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (jkeating) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:15:02 -0400 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <20071022211502.5c04aea1@j2solutions.net> On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:15:37 -0400 (EDT) Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > The current thinking (which I agree with) favors Anaconda-based > upgrading with a new and improved online component, rather than > yum-based upgrading. Take a look at the following feature proposal: And since anaconda /uses/ yum it's like having a smart wrapper around a yum upgrade to handle all the niggly details. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at j2solutions.net Tue Oct 23 01:17:54 2007 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (jkeating) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:17:54 -0400 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <82BD0DE6-EB75-40DB-A881-367684243EAB@mit.edu> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> <82BD0DE6-EB75-40DB-A881-367684243EAB@mit.edu> Message-ID: <20071022211754.6cac1e83@j2solutions.net> On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:58:01 -0400 William Cattey wrote: > How can use cases for hardware available now, requiring a few > critical apps needing to be ported now be accommodated? Neither > Enterprise nor Fedora fits well enough at the present time. RHEL regularly enables new hardware in the quarterlyish updates. You aren't stuck with two year old hardware sets. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Tue Oct 23 01:54:13 2007 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:54:13 -0200 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <82BD0DE6-EB75-40DB-A881-367684243EAB@mit.edu> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> <82BD0DE6-EB75-40DB-A881-367684243EAB@mit.edu> Message-ID: <471D5445.3070406@projetofedora.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 So.... if you need Stability... use Red Hat or CENTOS. (HELLO SERPRO.. CHANGE YOUR GNU/LINUX DISTRIBUTION!!!!!) If you are interested to test software and innovation(six on six months) for when it will be stable for Red Hat and CentOS.. use fedora!!!!! Great Marketing issue!!! You are saying that in your lectures ?? It's a negative marketing! If i say that bull..... here, all Brazilian fedora users will be use UBUNTU! So.. we won't have users to test these INNOVATIONS! Rodrigo Padula Frustrated Brazilian Fedora Ambassador http://www.projetofedora.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHHVQ/Pg3HAC1vlg4RAj3QAJ9UL4JHLWopAxjaxy636LIJA9xpswCdHZT1 qun2L1DyzIX7u2ANZtD5Twk= =YW1Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From wdc at MIT.EDU Tue Oct 23 01:57:45 2007 From: wdc at MIT.EDU (William Cattey) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:57:45 -0400 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <20071022211754.6cac1e83@j2solutions.net> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> <82BD0DE6-EB75-40DB-A881-367684243EAB@mit.edu> <20071022211754.6cac1e83@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <1C1B971A-42EB-403A-899D-2BB9D8A4A44E@mit.edu> Actually, I'm still working the kernel bug that broke the VESA driver that we opened when the Dell 745 first shipped. I believe that desktop gets EOLed in the next month or so. The Disk driver to SATA get off of BIOS compatibility mode came two quarters into the machine's life cycle. The RHEL 5 driver update to get rid of the SATA timeouts on start-up won't ship till after the machine is gone at this rate. So, yes quarterly updates should, in theory solve the problem. In practice, they are necessary, but not sufficient. -Bill ---- William Cattey Linux Platform Coordinator MIT Information Services & Technology N42-040M, 617-253-0140, wdc at mit.edu http://web.mit.edu/wdc/www/ On Oct 22, 2007, at 9:17 PM, jkeating wrote: > On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:58:01 -0400 > William Cattey wrote: > >> How can use cases for hardware available now, requiring a few >> critical apps needing to be ported now be accommodated? Neither >> Enterprise nor Fedora fits well enough at the present time. > > RHEL regularly enables new hardware in the quarterlyish updates. You > aren't stuck with two year old hardware sets. > > -- > Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) > Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) > GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/ > jkeating.j2solutions.pub) > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list From wolfy at nobugconsulting.ro Tue Oct 23 02:32:20 2007 From: wolfy at nobugconsulting.ro (Manuel Wolfshant) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 05:32:20 +0300 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <20071022211754.6cac1e83@j2solutions.net> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> <82BD0DE6-EB75-40DB-A881-367684243EAB@mit.edu> <20071022211754.6cac1e83@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <471D5D34.2030007@nobugconsulting.ro> On 10/23/2007 04:17 AM, jkeating wrote: > On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:58:01 -0400 > William Cattey wrote: > > >> How can use cases for hardware available now, requiring a few >> critical apps needing to be ported now be accommodated? Neither >> Enterprise nor Fedora fits well enough at the present time. >> > > RHEL regularly enables new hardware in the quarterlyish updates. You > aren't stuck with two year old hardware sets. > > We are kind of getting away with the list topic, but FWIW, I've bought - more like an experimental playground - three boxes based on Asus M2N-MX motherboards (el cheapo entry-level nVidia Corporation MCP61 + nVidia Corporation GeForce 6100 nForce 430 graphics controller). I had a hell of a time trying to make those work in Centos 4 and 5. (Yes, I know I could pay $$$$ for a special contract and have a dedicated team implement whatever I need, or that I could look over the HCL before buying. And I also know most of what "enterprise" mean, including in terms of hardware. That's not the point for the below lines.) In C4 it was impossible to start the installer, no matter what options we've tried (however, the box kind of worked OK after I moved the hard disk to another computer, do the install and transfer the disk back). In C5 it was more than funny to observe how the box would come up with a different MAC address after every reboot (until the network driver available on NVidia's site was used). After that, it took us half an hour to fiddle with xorg.conf to configure the display settings for a Samsung 17" TFT display (*-config-display failed with trumpets in generating a functional config). Finally we gave up fiddling and before throwing the box thru the balcony's window we switched to the NVidia proprietary driver. We haven't yet been able to make the box not lock if USB is enabled in BIOS & sound is still not functional, I still have to backport a newer alsa rpm. The irony is that replacing the CRT monitor with a TFT (and creating the new xorg.conf) was much easier in C4 than in C5. OTOH, F7 worked almost like a breeze on the same hardware. Except for video: once again I had to fiddle directly with xorg.conf adding a custom Modeline, otherwise the image was shifted 5" to the right and 1" narrower. And funniest of all, after making everything work (or so I thought) and having the exact setup I wanted after rebooting in runlevel 7 with Gnome as Desktop Environment, in the very moment I selected KDE and logged in as regular user, the image shifted again 5" to the right, as if I did not setup the video at all. Go figure... Bottom line, lots of people do lots of work, but for _recent_ hardware there still are steps to be performed. And even with the efforts put in their quarterly updates, I would say RHEL lags an year behind hardware that is available in the street. And as someone who started learning linux by using RH 4.2, I am sad to say it, but I feel that other distros (hint: knoppix/ubuntu) cope better with this aspect. From marketing-list at fedoralinks.org Tue Oct 23 02:31:15 2007 From: marketing-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:31:15 -0500 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471D5445.3070406@projetofedora.org> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> <82BD0DE6-EB75-40DB-A881-367684243EAB@mit.edu> <471D5445.3070406@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <471D5CF3.8080702@fedoralinks.org> Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > So.... if you need Stability... use Red Hat or CENTOS. (HELLO SERPRO.. > CHANGE YOUR GNU/LINUX DISTRIBUTION!!!!!) > > If you are interested to test software and innovation(six on six months) > for when it will be stable for Red Hat and CentOS.. use fedora!!!!! > > Great Marketing issue!!! > > You are saying that in your lectures ?? It's a negative marketing! > > If i say that bull..... here, all Brazilian fedora users will be use > UBUNTU! So.. we won't have users to test these INNOVATIONS! > > Rodrigo Padula > Frustrated Brazilian Fedora Ambassador > http://www.projetofedora.org > All I can say is WOW. None of this is new, in fact some of it is very old. The life cycle of Fedora has not gotten any shorter in fact it is longer now than it was in the past. I hate to sound rude, but I want to ask "What Brazilian cave have you been living in?" There is now a one month overlap between every two releases this is more than we had before. Remember this is open source software. If YOU want a longer support/patch/backport cycle YOU are more than welcome to offer such a thing. As a matter of fact if YOU would like to YOU could even turn it in to a multi-million dollar business. There are many things to be frustrated about as an ambassador, you are not unique in being frustrated. However if you had any part in SERPRO choosing Fedora you should not be frustrated you should be embarrassed. Robert 'Bob' Jensen Fedora Unity Project http://fedoraunity.org/ From ljuwaidah at gmail.com Tue Oct 23 04:28:33 2007 From: ljuwaidah at gmail.com (Laith Juwaidah) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:28:33 +0400 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: Hi, IMHO, I really don't think we should do this, most people use Fedora for personal computer. I am one of the people who like my system to be up-to-date and use the most recent technologies. You can still use Fedora 6 if you want, I don't think there's any problem with that :) Oh, BTW, isn't the life cycle now 6 months? Last release (Fedora 7) was in May, and Fedora 8 will be released in November, and that is what most popular distros do. Cheers! On 10/23/07, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi All!! > > I'm thinking about the Fedora Life Cycle and i have some conclusions: > > - - 13 months is a very short life cycle time and it's a bad thing > thinking in the Fedora Marketing (I am constantly asked about it in my > lectures). > - - with this short time we cannot use Fedora in production servers. In > Brazil we have BIG FEDORA CASES and it's a major concern of Brazilian TI > Managers. > - - many of linux distributions has more than 13 months of life cycle > > So,how can we extend that life cycle to increase for at least 2 years by > release? > > IMHO, we should do this!! > > Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira > http://www.projetofedora.org > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFHHRFdPg3HAC1vlg4RAkwEAJ9yCrxDLPzwgAaoyMjMSqMJpHPEVQCgn6U3 > 84Tlew5BXAEyNvGZWVa7o7w= > =T5JA > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Laith Juwaidah ljuwaidah at gmail.com http://www.ljuwaidah.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aravind at aravind.name Tue Oct 23 05:01:35 2007 From: aravind at aravind.name (Aravind Seshadri) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:01:35 -0500 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <1193115695.19628.7.camel@0-11-43-71-59-38.ceat.okstate.edu> On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 08:28 +0400, Laith Juwaidah wrote: > Oh, BTW, isn't the life cycle now 6 months? Last release (Fedora 7) > was in May, and Fedora 8 will be released in November, and that is > what most popular distros do. > That is the release cycle. I guess the life cycle is the time for which the release is supported. -- Best Regards, Aravind http://www.aravind.name -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From imtiaz.rahi at gmail.com Tue Oct 23 05:06:44 2007 From: imtiaz.rahi at gmail.com (Imtiaz Rahi) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:06:44 +0600 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <82BD0DE6-EB75-40DB-A881-367684243EAB@mit.edu> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> <82BD0DE6-EB75-40DB-A881-367684243EAB@mit.edu> Message-ID: On 10/23/07, William Cattey wrote: > > I too have been agonizing over product cycles. > > Enterprise is stable, but on the desktop often does not get critical > device drivers until too late in the life cycle of hardware. And the > hardware I'm looking at is not the fancy gamer platform. It is the > workhorse enterprise desktop platform like Dell Optiplex. > > Furthermore Enterprise does not get certain new apps quite soon > enough. For example OpenOffice 2.0 and Firefox 2.0. (I have had > some very interesting conversations with some of the folks who were > majorly involved in the decisions about roll-out of apps, and I > appreciate the sensible rationale expressed for the path taken. > Nevertheless, I took the heat when the majority of the world moved on > to a version of the app not supported by Red Hat. Doing an mit-only > early deploy of an app is something we're investigating, but it too > has issues.) > > Fedora would be an attractive alternative except that it is too > volatile. Indeed many difficult release engineering problems go away > with a 1 year release and 2 year life cycle. +1. 9 months release cycle. EPEL is an interesting and possibly helpful alternative because it > gets some of the interesting apps from Fedora going on Enterprise. > Unfortunately, that doesn't solve the, "I can't buy the desktops on > sale this year because the disk driver, and/or the ethernet driver > and/or the video driver won't be back ported from Fedora to > Enterprise until the machines on sale this year are no longer > available." Again +1. Jesse Keating and Greg DeKoeningsberg say that stability is what RHEL > and CentOS are for, and that it's inappropriate to try and move > Fedora away from the benefits of the current state -- great > responsiveness, and tractable release engineering aspects for updates. > > Indeed if the problem is framed, "stability versus innovation" the > two aspects are in conflict. My question is: > > How can use cases for hardware available now, requiring a few > critical apps needing to be ported now be accommodated? Neither > Enterprise nor Fedora fits well enough at the present time. +1 -Bill > > ---- > > William Cattey > Linux Platform Coordinator > MIT Information Services & Technology > > N42-040M, 617-253-0140, wdc at mit.edu > http://web.mit.edu/wdc/www/ > > > On Oct 22, 2007, at 6:35 PM, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > By example i will use the biggest Brazilian Fedora Case. > > > > SERPRO (Brazilian Government IT Department) has more than 8.000 > > desktop > > stations and several servers using Fedora inside spread in 26 > > Brazilian > > States. > > > > Do you have any idea of what i'm talking about ???? > > > > How can they update it every six month?? It's a craziness !! > > > > It involves planning and a lot of work! it's not that simple!!!!! > > > > IMHO the release and life cycle must be increased! > > > > RELEASE -> 1 per year > > LIFE CYCLE -> 2 years > > > > It'd reduce the Artwork, Free Media, Marketing, Translation, > > Documentation and Packing issues. > > > > .... and mirrors, band use and others things!!!!!!!!!! > > > > Best regards! > > > > Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira > > > > > > Gian Paolo Mureddu escreveu: > >> Greg DeKoenigsberg escribi?: > >>> > >>> IMHO, it's far more interesting -- and useful -- to make upgrades > >>> work > >>> flawlessly. > >>> > >>> --g > >>> > >> > >> > >> I couldn't agree more with you on this! Theoretically upgrades > >> shouldn't > >> need to be too difficult, heck you can sort of do them "by hand" > >> if you > >> know what files you need and more specifically, what /parts/ of the > >> files are needed... I'm specifically talking about passwd, shadow, > >> group > >> & gshadow, and paths such as /home, /root, etc. Of course there's > >> also > >> the "individual applications' config files, which can still be worked > >> out. I've been thinking about this and it shouldn't be too difficult, > >> but have been told time and time again that such a feat is > >> impractical > >> and nonsensical in the long run. I'm not convinced, but, then > >> again it > >> could be made possible for an automatic upgrade process to also be > >> clean > >> enough... I'll give it a bit more thought and maybe post an RFE on > >> Bgzilla about the issue. > >> > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iD8DBQFHHSWtPg3HAC1vlg4RAgNJAJoD9ulktv1IFbej0mafvHdxxgcZEwCbBkBA > > OqO1pmAwzKEsKS0v+25HonQ= > > =FQbb > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > -- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Oct 23 06:04:56 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:04:56 +0300 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <471D8F08.8050008@nicubunu.ro> Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > By example i will use the biggest Brazilian Fedora Case. > > SERPRO (Brazilian Government IT Department) has more than 8.000 desktop > stations and several servers using Fedora inside spread in 26 Brazilian > States. > > Do you have any idea of what i'm talking about ???? > > How can they update it every six month?? It's a craziness !! But with a life cycle of 13 months, why not update yearly? > It involves planning and a lot of work! it's not that simple!!!!! Maybe you read about the proposal to change the development process and replace test 1,2,3 with alpha, beta, release candidate. Maybe planning the update may start in advance, around RC? > IMHO the release and life cycle must be increased! > > RELEASE -> 1 per year > LIFE CYCLE -> 2 years > > It'd reduce the Artwork, Free Media, Marketing, Translation, > Documentation and Packing issues. This is desktop use, seriously, for desktop would you want to use less than the latest version of your applications? Would you use *now* Firefox 1.5, OpenOffice.org 2.2.1, GIMP 2.2 or Inkscape 0.44? -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From ljuwaidah at gmail.com Tue Oct 23 07:04:12 2007 From: ljuwaidah at gmail.com (Laith Juwaidah) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:04:12 +0400 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <1193115695.19628.7.camel@0-11-43-71-59-38.ceat.okstate.edu> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <1193115695.19628.7.camel@0-11-43-71-59-38.ceat.okstate.edu> Message-ID: Oh, thanks for the clarification :) On 10/23/07, Aravind Seshadri wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 08:28 +0400, Laith Juwaidah wrote: > > Oh, BTW, isn't the life cycle now 6 months? Last release (Fedora 7) > > was in May, and Fedora 8 will be released in November, and that is > > what most popular distros do. > > > > That is the release cycle. I guess the life cycle is the time for which > the release is supported. > -- > Best Regards, > Aravind > http://www.aravind.name > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > -- Laith Juwaidah ljuwaidah at gmail.com http://www.ljuwaidah.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Tue Oct 23 10:55:33 2007 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:55:33 -0200 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <471DD325.7040101@projetofedora.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 So, we have to put in our site: - - Get CentOS - - Buy RHEL Obs: We can not resolve your problem, if you need INNOVATION and want to be a "beta" tester for Red Hat and Centos, GET FEDORA!!! I will have a lecture today and I do not know what I will say. I lost my arguments! I'm stopping here, else I will download the CENTOS and i will go to the Centos Project. Thanks all for the clarifications..... Rodrigo Padula Brazilian Fedora/CentOS Project -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHHdMhPg3HAC1vlg4RAsfiAKDIhC8RENXCjnlNWgKRjnCFVJLscgCdGLZD DUSE2nXD+iQbidkgPSrDgFc= =MT9u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 23 10:35:28 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 16:05:28 +0530 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <471DCE70.1070706@fedoraproject.org> Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > Do you have any idea of what i'm talking about ???? > > How can they update it every six month?? It's a craziness !! > > It involves planning and a lot of work! it's not that simple!!!!! > They don't have to upgrade just because we have a new release. They can upgrade every 13 months or so instead. Just something I thought I would highlight better. Rahul From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Tue Oct 23 12:10:30 2007 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:10:30 -0200 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle Message-ID: <471DE4B6.3000001@projetofedora.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all!!! The Brazilian Translation Project has -1 translator. What's the reason ? He say that: "Now i'm working and using CENTOS and Red hat" Why ??? THE FEDORA LIFE CYCLE!!! Why he is going ?? "I contribute with the project that i use!" So, if the users are using CENTOS, they will not contribute with the fedora project and it's a BIG sh...... Eu sou um Fedora Usu?rio / Contribuinte e vou continua a ser! But it has no meaning, thinking with yours arguments! My goal is to make the Fedora BEST TO USE and not the CENTOS/Red Hat. My goal is spread FEDORA and not CENTOS/Red Hat. My goal is see Fedora in Servers, Desktops and not CENTOS/Red Hat. For the red hat engeneers it's make sense, for me not! I don't receive money to do my job and to spread Fedora around all Brazilian states! I only receive support from Max and Thomas to viability that and i do this in te best way possible! Only in 2007 I do 14 presentations of fedora and fedora project in events with 150/200 persons in each presentation. With my arguments the Brazilian Project had created local users groups in many states and recruit many collaborators to translation, documentation, packing and marketing project. In Brazil we have a fedora web community with more than 8.000 persons using and testing fedora and I do this because I believe! I am here with my very bad English to defend it! Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira www.projetofedora.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHHeSyPg3HAC1vlg4RAk4RAKDHXfyDoQWspd55343yQGgMVupw4ACeNZJ2 hyobMuTm/yPuWJQpUdNdk98= =XDzR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Igor Pires Soares Subject: Re: [Fedora-trans-pt_br] Estou me despedindo - mais ou menos... Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:51:44 -0200 Size: 6409 URL: From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Tue Oct 23 12:25:49 2007 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:25:49 -0200 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471D5CF3.8080702@fedoralinks.org> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> <82BD0DE6-EB75-40DB-A881-367684243EAB@mit.edu> <471D5445.3070406@projetofedora.org> <471D5CF3.8080702@fedoralinks.org> Message-ID: <471DE84D.8070404@projetofedora.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Robert 'Bob' Jensen escreveu: >"What Brazilian cave have you been living in?" > Robert 'Bob' Jensen > Fedora Unity Project > http://fedoraunity.org/ Ohhh I was not in a cave. I am an Indian and I live in the jungle named AMAZONIA! I will cry! lol Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira Welcome to the Jungle! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHHehJPg3HAC1vlg4RApbsAKCAjA1tBhrP9CoIIgJFBpQiEjyrsACeJ8Vr Tco+1gJhLB7Zb5OCx7dcpVw= =uYH7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Tue Oct 23 12:34:08 2007 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:34:08 -0200 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471DCE70.1070706@fedoraproject.org> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> <471DCE70.1070706@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <471DEA40.3090405@projetofedora.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Rahul Sundaram escreveu: > Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > >> Do you have any idea of what i'm talking about ???? >> >> How can they update it every six month?? It's a craziness !! >> >> It involves planning and a lot of work! it's not that simple!!!!! >> > > They don't have to upgrade just because we have a new release. They can > upgrade every 13 months or so instead. Just something I thought I would > highlight better. And They can not enjoy the innovations? Let's go! - - Fedora is released - - 1 or 2 months packing and releasing new and necessaries packages versions ( now we have 11 months). - - 1 or 2 months planning, studying the impacts, creating the migration plan and applying it(now we have 9 months) - - ohhhh in 9 months we have to do this again - - so, we will use CENTOS or DEBIAN. That is the problem! Year by year migrating all fedora systems to the new version! > > Rahul > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHHepAPg3HAC1vlg4RAmNWAJ4wEXucqCmdkD32H0SDM1yicUeMBACfXYJt Hh0A4qFIG/7BE1nTdFBI5+s= =LIx1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 23 11:40:30 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:10:30 +0530 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471DEA40.3090405@projetofedora.org> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> <471DCE70.1070706@fedoraproject.org> <471DEA40.3090405@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <471DDDAE.7070903@fedoraproject.org> Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Rahul Sundaram escreveu: >> Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: >> >>> Do you have any idea of what i'm talking about ???? >>> >>> How can they update it every six month?? It's a craziness !! >>> >>> It involves planning and a lot of work! it's not that simple!!!!! >>> >> They don't have to upgrade just because we have a new release. They can >> upgrade every 13 months or so instead. Just something I thought I would >> highlight better. > And They can not enjoy the innovations? Not sure what you mean. You cannot get both the latest software at all times and want a long release cycle at the same time. It doesn't work that way. Rahul From che666 at gmail.com Tue Oct 23 13:54:13 2007 From: che666 at gmail.com (Rudolf Kastl) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:54:13 +0200 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471DEA40.3090405@projetofedora.org> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> <471DCE70.1070706@fedoraproject.org> <471DEA40.3090405@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: 2007/10/23, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira : > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Rahul Sundaram escreveu: > > Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > > > >> Do you have any idea of what i'm talking about ???? > >> > >> How can they update it every six month?? It's a craziness !! > >> > >> It involves planning and a lot of work! it's not that simple!!!!! > >> > > > > They don't have to upgrade just because we have a new release. They can > > upgrade every 13 months or so instead. Just something I thought I would > > highlight better. > And They can not enjoy the innovations? > > Let's go! > - - Fedora is released > - - 1 or 2 months packing and releasing new and necessaries packages > versions ( now we have 11 months). > - - 1 or 2 months planning, studying the impacts, creating the migration > plan and applying it(now we have 9 months) > - - ohhhh in 9 months we have to do this again > - - so, we will use CENTOS or DEBIAN. 1. Requirement Analysis 2. Evalution of alternatives 3. Pick the distribution best suited for the task at hand and start planning So you just figured out fedora doesent meet your or your customers requirements and you are not a member of the intended audience with running a production server with fedora then fine... there are enough alternatives better suited for the task. just proposing that fedora should be yet another distribution that moves very slowly (there are enough of those available) isnt very productive. regards, Rudolf Kastl > > That is the problem! Year by year migrating all fedora systems to the > new version! > > > > > Rahul > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFHHepAPg3HAC1vlg4RAmNWAJ4wEXucqCmdkD32H0SDM1yicUeMBACfXYJt > Hh0A4qFIG/7BE1nTdFBI5+s= > =LIx1 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From karlthered2 at gmail.com Tue Oct 23 13:59:59 2007 From: karlthered2 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?H._Gu=E9mar?=) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:59:59 +0200 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471DDDAE.7070903@fedoraproject.org> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> <471DCE70.1070706@fedoraproject.org> <471DEA40.3090405@projetofedora.org> <471DDDAE.7070903@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: Dude, we had already experimented a 9 months release cycle and the experiment was a complete failure. Fedora Legacy closed its door because it lacked contributors. Current release schedule perfectly fits FedoraProject and community, and nobody would be gainst extending support, we're just lacking contributions If you want a longer support cycle, feel free to revive Fedora Legacy or just use CentOS. So, come with a concrete suggestion and we'll listen you, but whining on the m-l is NOT an option. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 23 14:54:57 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:24:57 +0530 Subject: Fedora 8 renews tradition of innovations Message-ID: <471E0B41.4010804@fedoraproject.org> Hi, A small but positive preview and we have already fixed some of the flaws highlighted. Good show I think. Digg it, folks http://digg.com/linux_unix/Fedora_8_renews_tradition_of_innovations http://www.linux.com/feature/119998 "This release makes it obvious that the Fedora community prides itself on innovation. If nothing else, the public documentation of each change on the project wiki should make the perspective clear. If, despite being marked on the wiki as complete, some of these innovations seem flawed or limited, that seems only inevitable -- with so many efforts at finding a new direction, some are bound to fail, or to be less successful than others, especially in their first release. Fedora deserves appreciation for trying. At the introductory stage, that matters more, perhaps, than complete success." Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 23 14:57:37 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:27:37 +0530 Subject: Fedora Project Leader Takes Dig at Shuttleworth, Questions Ubuntu Numbers Message-ID: <471E0BE1.5060401@fedoraproject.org> Hi, http://www.crn.com/software/202404605 "Spevack then points to this statistics page and says the Fedora community "makes a good-faith attempt at statistical transparency." The numbers seem to indicate that anywhere from 65,000 to 177,000 unique visitors a week download Fedora." Rahul From mattdm at mattdm.org Tue Oct 23 16:07:44 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:07:44 -0400 Subject: PDF, Page Layout, and FUDcon Inquiries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071023160744.GA25332@jadzia.bu.edu> On Mon, Oct 22, 2007 at 07:55:34PM -0400, Markus McLaughlin wrote: > Page Layout Software under GPL or LGPL that uses PDF is welcomed! Is > FUDcon in Boston and will there be a Virtual "Extension" of it so you can > "be there" too? There will be another FUDcon in Boston. A virtual extension sounds interesting, but we'd need people very, very interested in doing the work to make it happen. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From paulds at bu.edu Tue Oct 23 16:10:51 2007 From: paulds at bu.edu (Paul Stauffer) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:10:51 -0400 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471DEA40.3090405@projetofedora.org> References: <471D115D.4040405@projetofedora.org> <471D0E3A.4040405@prodigy.net.mx> <471D25B2.8020406@projetofedora.org> <471DCE70.1070706@fedoraproject.org> <471DEA40.3090405@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <20071023161051.GB15092@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Oct 23, 2007 at 10:34:08AM -0200, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > Let's go! > - - Fedora is released > - - 1 or 2 months packing and releasing new and necessaries packages > versions ( now we have 11 months). > - - 1 or 2 months planning, studying the impacts, creating the migration > plan and applying it(now we have 9 months) > - - ohhhh in 9 months we have to do this again > - - so, we will use CENTOS or DEBIAN. > > That is the problem! Year by year migrating all fedora systems to the > new version! Hi Rodrigo, I understand the frustration you feel in this tension between the benefits of a fast-moving rate of innovation and the need many organizations have to not be constantly upgrading all of their machines. You are not alone in feeling torn between two choices, neither of which seem optimal for you. I am sure there are a lot of other organizations that are in the same position. I also note with admiration that you are clearly a person with a lot of energy and a sincere passion for the Fedora Project. Therefore I have a few questions for you. How large an organization is SERPRO? What is its annual budget, roughly? And how many other large organizations are you aware of that have similar concerns? The reason I ask is that it seems to me that if an organization with thousands of employees really depends on Fedora for its daily operations, and if that organization would greatly benefit from an increased support cycle for Fedora, then it might easily be worth it for that organization to hire a small handful of developers specifically tasked with continuing the maintenance of the distro for a period of time after the Fedora Project has ceased to support it. And if this might be a worthwhile investment for SERPRO, perhaps it would also be worthwhile for a few other large organizations in similar situations. Given a handful of organizations, each sponsoring a handful of developers, it seems to me you could easily accomplish what you desire, and effectively revive something like the Fedora Legacy project. Skip every odd (or even) numbered release, and concentrate on providing only the most critical updates for your supported release for one additional year, giving you a total supported lifespan of ~2 years, and you'd never be supporting more than two releases at once. Of course, it would take a person with a lot of energy and a sincere passion for Fedora to organize such an effort, and to convince a few organizations like SERPRO that this would be a cost effective way to solve their problem. Perhaps you know such a person? :) cheers, - Paul -- Paul Stauffer Manager of Research Computing Computer Science Department Boston University From paulds at bu.edu Tue Oct 23 16:15:12 2007 From: paulds at bu.edu (Paul Stauffer) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:15:12 -0400 Subject: PDF, Page Layout, and FUDcon Inquiries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071023161512.GC15092@jadzia.bu.edu> On Mon, Oct 22, 2007 at 07:55:34PM -0400, Markus McLaughlin wrote: > Is FUDcon in Boston and will there be a Virtual "Extension" of it so you > can "be there" too? We have not yet had any discussions regarding the next FUDCon. In past years, we have hosted one at BU in late winter or early spring. It is not unreasonable to assume that we might do so again. If any decisions are made on this, that information will be posted to this list. cheers, - Paul -- Paul Stauffer Manager of Research Computing Computer Science Department Boston University From webpath at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 23 17:59:36 2007 From: webpath at fedoraproject.org (Karlie Robinson) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:59:36 -0400 Subject: Fedora Banner for TuxMachines.org Message-ID: <471E3688.4070004@fedoraproject.org> Hi everyone. I usually buy the top banner at tuxmachines.org and I was wondering if we could come up with something to put up there when Fedora 8 releases? (TuxMachines has been very good to the developers who list at On-Disk - see http://digg.com/linux_unix/Linux_Projects_Best_Kept_Secret) Now the banner can be linked to the project home page, or someplace else if you like. I'd also go out on a limb to say that I would really like a banner to support the Free Media project in some way, but I'm not sure the best way to go about it. The problem I'm having is that we should try to increase Free Media discs sent, rather than requests. So should we come up something about sponsorships and then link back to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/SponsoredMedia Or what other ideas do you have? We have a little while before the banner at TuxMachines will run so lets do some thinking ~Karlie From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Tue Oct 23 18:45:04 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:45:04 +0100 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <471CAD5A.8030404@fedoraproject.org> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> <471CA85B.4020600@fedoraproject.org> <20071022104752.57e2a532@j2solutions.net> <471CAD5A.8030404@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710231145n1f4472a8o141231276c9d74e4@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I've put up a few bits and pieces for the overviews so far. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JonathanRoberts/F8Overview What do people think? Is the text appropriate/long enough/too long/giving correct information!? Would be good to get some feedback before I go on too much further so I know I'm heading along the right tracks! Best wishes, Jon From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Tue Oct 23 18:45:56 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:45:56 +0100 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710231145n1f4472a8o141231276c9d74e4@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> <471CA85B.4020600@fedoraproject.org> <20071022104752.57e2a532@j2solutions.net> <471CAD5A.8030404@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710231145n1f4472a8o141231276c9d74e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710231145j61d6bc8at49a5e040d5125961@mail.gmail.com> I should have added: Pictures/Links etc are still needed. Jon On 23/10/2007, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hi all, > > I've put up a few bits and pieces for the overviews so far. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JonathanRoberts/F8Overview > > What do people think? Is the text appropriate/long enough/too > long/giving correct information!? Would be good to get some feedback > before I go on too much further so I know I'm heading along the right > tracks! > > Best wishes, > > Jon > From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 23 17:58:46 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 23:28:46 +0530 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710231145n1f4472a8o141231276c9d74e4@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> <471CA85B.4020600@fedoraproject.org> <20071022104752.57e2a532@j2solutions.net> <471CAD5A.8030404@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710231145n1f4472a8o141231276c9d74e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <471E3656.7010205@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hi all, > > I've put up a few bits and pieces for the overviews so far. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JonathanRoberts/F8Overview > > What do people think? Is the text appropriate/long enough/too > long/giving correct information!? Would be good to get some feedback > before I go on too much further so I know I'm heading along the right > tracks! I think we need to change the track a bit. Use very simple language. Less technical. Talk about benefits before features, fill them with screenshots and screencasts, Some comparisons. http://news.opensuse.org/?p=341 http://news.opensuse.org/?p=400 http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/710tour http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Releases/Mandriva/2008.0/Tour http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Releases/Mandriva/2008.0/Notes Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 23 19:29:28 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:29:28 -0700 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471DE4B6.3000001@projetofedora.org> References: <471DE4B6.3000001@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <1193167768.11244.102.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 10:10 -0200, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi all!!! > > The Brazilian Translation Project has -1 translator. > > What's the reason ? > > He say that: "Now i'm working and using CENTOS and Red hat" This doesn't make sense. Red Hat Enterprise Linux is 100% translated in Fedora (upstream). How would a translator be able to work translating just RHEL/CentOS? > Why ??? THE FEDORA LIFE CYCLE!!! > > Why he is going ?? "I contribute with the project that i use!" > > So, if the users are using CENTOS, they will not contribute with the > fedora project and it's a BIG sh...... > > Eu sou um Fedora Usu?rio / Contribuinte e vou continua a ser! > But it has no meaning, thinking with yours arguments! > My goal is to make the Fedora BEST TO USE and not the CENTOS/Red Hat. My > goal is spread FEDORA and not CENTOS/Red Hat. My goal is see Fedora in > Servers, Desktops and not CENTOS/Red Hat. Do you think that Fedora needs to work for every situation? Must it fit every need? > For the red hat engeneers it's make sense, for me not! I don't receive > money to do my job and to spread Fedora around all Brazilian states! It's not just Red Hat employees. There are many more non-Red Hat employees in the Fedora Project. Many have the same challenge you do. All of us benefit from the rapid release cycle. > I only receive support from Max and Thomas to viability that and i do > this in te best way possible! > > Only in 2007 I do 14 presentations of fedora and fedora project in > events with 150/200 persons in each presentation. With my arguments the > Brazilian Project had created local users groups in many states and > recruit many collaborators to translation, documentation, packing and > marketing project. > > In Brazil we have a fedora web community with more than 8.000 persons > using and testing fedora and I do this because I believe! I am here with > my very bad English to defend it! Heh, not so bad. :) I think Paul's suggestion is really the only answer: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2007-October/msg00321.html Fedora the Linux distro has to choose what it is best at and not try to be everything to everybody. But within the Fedora Project there is room to spin Fedora in different ways, to expand the support lifecycle, and so forth. Just because Fedora Legacy didn't work doesn't mean the idea is a bad one. It just turned out that the people involved in it *then* found CentOS to be a better solution for them. You are describing a different situation, many different people can make it happen. With this new Fedora extended support idea, the team knows which versions are going to get extended support (such as, every odd numbered release.) Work on updating support docs, processes, tools, and putting in special work can be done for that release in development. Organizations that are planning to roll out this extended support version should begin testing with the alpha or beta version. Then their unique problems are more likely to be addressed, and can be fixed by the very extended support engineers paid to do that work. Those organizations gain a few months of planning so they can begin their roll out closer to the version release date. It's a very good idea, just waiting for someone who needs it enough to make it happen. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From michael.d.beckwith at gmail.com Tue Oct 23 19:33:05 2007 From: michael.d.beckwith at gmail.com (Michael Beckwith) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:33:05 -0500 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710231145j61d6bc8at49a5e040d5125961@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> <471CA85B.4020600@fedoraproject.org> <20071022104752.57e2a532@j2solutions.net> <471CAD5A.8030404@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710231145n1f4472a8o141231276c9d74e4@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710231145j61d6bc8at49a5e040d5125961@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <471E4C71.6000500@gmail.com> Is this the page that we want the scribus/whatever.layout.editor/etc pdf to feature? I'm still waiting on a few more details about the desired pdf before I start doing anything with it. Page sizes would be nice too. Jonathan Roberts wrote: > I should have added: > > Pictures/Links etc are still needed. > > Jon > > On 23/10/2007, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I've put up a few bits and pieces for the overviews so far. >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JonathanRoberts/F8Overview >> >> What do people think? Is the text appropriate/long enough/too >> long/giving correct information!? Would be good to get some feedback >> before I go on too much further so I know I'm heading along the right >> tracks! >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Jon >> >> > > -- ~Michael http://ridleytx.structed.net (for now) http://www.michaelbox.net (eventually) From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 23 18:37:30 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 00:07:30 +0530 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <471E4C71.6000500@gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> <471CA85B.4020600@fedoraproject.org> <20071022104752.57e2a532@j2solutions.net> <471CAD5A.8030404@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710231145n1f4472a8o141231276c9d74e4@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710231145j61d6bc8at49a5e040d5125961@mail.gmail.com> <471E4C71.6000500@gmail.com> Message-ID: <471E3F6A.8000800@fedoraproject.org> Michael Beckwith wrote: > Is this the page that we want the scribus/whatever.layout.editor/etc pdf > to feature? I'm still waiting on a few more details about the desired > pdf before I start doing anything with it. Page sizes would be nice too. Yes this is the page but wait for it while we gather more content. Then we can put in a note here that it is ready to be converted to PDF and you can work your magic. If you have any sample layouts or anything, let us know. Rahul From michael.d.beckwith at gmail.com Tue Oct 23 21:24:11 2007 From: michael.d.beckwith at gmail.com (Michael Beckwith) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 16:24:11 -0500 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview Message-ID: <471E667B.4010704@gmail.com> Linked is a pdf file of an 8 page layout from the "Trojan Times". Layout done by myself with tweaks and occasional fixes by newspaper advisor before sending off to be printed. http://tw2113.fedorapeople.org/fed_overview/2-9-2007.pdf Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Michael Beckwith wrote: >> Is this the page that we want the scribus/whatever.layout.editor/etc >> pdf to feature? I'm still waiting on a few more details about the >> desired pdf before I start doing anything with it. Page sizes would >> be nice too. > > Yes this is the page but wait for it while we gather more content. > Then we can put in a note here that it is ready to be converted to PDF > and you can work your magic. > > If you have any sample layouts or anything, let us know. > > Rahul > -- ~Michael http://ridleytx.structed.net (for now) http://www.michaelbox.net (eventually) From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Oct 24 01:10:08 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:10:08 +0800 Subject: Fedora Weekly News 106 Message-ID: <1193188208.21565.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue106 http://digg.com/linux_unix/Fedora_Weekly_News_Issue_106 A bit of news about what is coming up. Most people would have read it but in the lead up to F8 we should be starting to push the benefits of what is there in F8. Cheers, Marc From henrique_csj at yahoo.com.br Wed Oct 24 03:45:59 2007 From: henrique_csj at yahoo.com.br (Henrique de Castro) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Res: Fedora Life Cycle Message-ID: <678439.90131.qm@web45504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> O ponto fundamental sobre a discuss?o a respeito do ciclo de vi The fundamental point about the discussion which says on fedora?s life cycle isn?t just the fact that Fedora has a short 6 month cycle and it?s ?just like that? as some of the present colleagues have clearly pointed. A lot of people love Fedora and dedicate much of their time to make it better and to spread it to increase its instalation basis (even here, in Brazil?s remote caverns). To me and to much more people, Fedora is not just a Linux distribution with which we work, it is a personal thing and to be part of it?s expansion is a reason for pride. Obviously a Fedora?s fan wish to use it for any day-to-day tasks: it is powerfull, stable, reliable and solid, but when the subject is critic mission servers, the short cycle ends on a harmfull point. On such cases, any upgrade is considered high risk and I?m sure that you all agree with that.. To use CentOS or Red Hat is a good choice, but that?s not the point; It isn?t the case to search alternatives, but to have for work one of the best distributions on the world and have to, unfortunately, give it up for great risk tasks where long cycles are better fit. Do not forget that the people who make the Fedora team immense, frenetic and incomparably competent also has people around the world, including Brazil?s cavern men, who abdicate days off, nights and even college class time for love (as well as everyone here) to Fedora. Regards Henrique "LonelySpooky" Junior "The best diplomat that I know is a fully-loaded phaser bank." Lt. Cdr. Montgomery Scott ("A Taste of Armageddon") ----- Mensagem original ---- De: Karsten Wade Para: fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com Enviadas: Ter?a-feira, 23 de Outubro de 2007 17:29:28 Assunto: Re: Fedora Life Cycle On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 10:10 -0200, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi all!!! > > The Brazilian Translation Project has -1 translator. > > What's the reason ? > > He say that: "Now i'm working and using CENTOS and Red hat" This doesn't make sense. Red Hat Enterprise Linux is 100% translated in Fedora (upstream). How would a translator be able to work translating just RHEL/CentOS? > Why ??? THE FEDORA LIFE CYCLE!!! > > Why he is going ?? "I contribute with the project that i use!" > > So, if the users are using CENTOS, they will not contribute with the > fedora project and it's a BIG sh...... > > Eu sou um Fedora Usu?rio / Contribuinte e vou continua a ser! > But it has no meaning, thinking with yours arguments! > My goal is to make the Fedora BEST TO USE and not the CENTOS/Red Hat. My > goal is spread FEDORA and not CENTOS/Red Hat. My goal is see Fedora in > Servers, Desktops and not CENTOS/Red Hat. Do you think that Fedora needs to work for every situation? Must it fit every need? > For the red hat engeneers it's make sense, for me not! I don't receive > money to do my job and to spread Fedora around all Brazilian states! It's not just Red Hat employees. There are many more non-Red Hat employees in the Fedora Project. Many have the same challenge you do. All of us benefit from the rapid release cycle. > I only receive support from Max and Thomas to viability that and i do > this in te best way possible! > > Only in 2007 I do 14 presentations of fedora and fedora project in > events with 150/200 persons in each presentation. With my arguments the > Brazilian Project had created local users groups in many states and > recruit many collaborators to translation, documentation, packing and > marketing project. > > In Brazil we have a fedora web community with more than 8.000 persons > using and testing fedora and I do this because I believe! I am here with > my very bad English to defend it! Heh, not so bad. :) I think Paul's suggestion is really the only answer: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2007-October/msg00321.html Fedora the Linux distro has to choose what it is best at and not try to be everything to everybody. But within the Fedora Project there is room to spin Fedora in different ways, to expand the support lifecycle, and so forth. Just because Fedora Legacy didn't work doesn't mean the idea is a bad one. It just turned out that the people involved in it *then* found CentOS to be a better solution for them. You are describing a different situation, many different people can make it happen. With this new Fedora extended support idea, the team knows which versions are going to get extended support (such as, every odd numbered release.) Work on updating support docs, processes, tools, and putting in special work can be done for that release in development. Organizations that are planning to roll out this extended support version should begin testing with the alpha or beta version. Then their unique problems are more likely to be addressed, and can be fixed by the very extended support engineers paid to do that work. Those organizations gain a few months of planning so they can begin their roll out closer to the version release date. It's a very good idea, just waiting for someone who needs it enough to make it happen. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 Abra sua conta no Yahoo! Mail, o ?nico sem limite de espa?o para armazenamento! http://br.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnanney at mscoast.com Wed Oct 24 04:25:11 2007 From: jnanney at mscoast.com (Jim Nanney) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 23:25:11 -0500 Subject: Res: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <678439.90131.qm@web45504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <678439.90131.qm@web45504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <471EC927.7030605@mscoast.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I think the point of life cycle vs release cycle is getting confused here. Fedora has a release cycle of 6 months. That means a new version is released every 6 months. Support for the previous version (along with updates) are not stopped at 6 months, but rather at 13 months. While this certainly can be daunting, I regularly update my OS every other release (on my server at least). This allows my server to maintain a single distribution for 1 year and gives me one month to test the new release and apply it. Mapping a OS upgrade path prior to rollout should be part of that process. If the upgrade path cannot sustain a 13 month lifecycle (not 6 month as per releases, but 13 month as per updates maintained), then yes, CentOS or RHEL may be the correct path to take. The big confusion here seems to be release cycle vs life cycle. Life cycle is how long the distribution is supported with updates. Release cycle is how long before the next version is released. - --Jim Henrique de Castro wrote: > > > The fundamental point about the discussion which says on fedora?s life > cycle isn?t just the fact that Fedora has a short 6 month cycle and it?s > ?just like that? as some of the present colleagues have clearly pointed. > A lot of people love Fedora and dedicate much of their time to make it > better and to spread it to increase its instalation basis (even here, in > Brazil?s remote caverns). To me and to much more people, Fedora is not > just a Linux distribution with which we work, it is a personal thing and > to be part of it?s expansion is a reason for pride. > > Obviously a Fedora?s fan wish to use it for any day-to-day tasks: it is > powerfull, stable, reliable and solid, but when the subject is critic > mission servers, the short cycle ends on a harmfull point. On such > cases, any upgrade is considered high risk and I?m sure that you all > agree with that. To use CentOS or Red Hat is a good choice, but that?s > not the point; It isn?t the case to search alternatives, but to have for > work one of the best distributions on the world and have to, > unfortunately, give it up for great risk tasks where long cycles are > better fit. > > Do not forget that the people who make the Fedora team immense, frenetic > and incomparably competent also has people around the world, including > Brazil?s cavern men, who abdicate days off, nights and even college > class time for love (as well as everyone here) to Fedora. > > > Regards > > > Henrique "LonelySpooky" Junior -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHHskn3GRPSy3vDJMRAmqwAJ9OOTkX8TvYAv+eTbyF/h74YdCFBACgyG1y jyrK1/wWHLhPkCPv8rVJH8c= =FRQ2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mmahut at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 24 06:33:38 2007 From: mmahut at fedoraproject.org (Marek Mahut) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 08:33:38 +0200 Subject: Fedora Banner for TuxMachines.org In-Reply-To: <471E3688.4070004@fedoraproject.org> References: <471E3688.4070004@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <471EE742.7090707@fedoraproject.org> Karlie Robinson wrote: > Hi everyone. I usually buy the top banner at tuxmachines.org and I was > wondering if we could come up with something to put up there when Fedora > 8 releases? (TuxMachines has been very good to the developers who list > at On-Disk - see > http://digg.com/linux_unix/Linux_Projects_Best_Kept_Secret) > > Now the banner can be linked to the project home page, or someplace else > if you like. > > I'd also go out on a limb to say that I would really like a banner to > support the Free Media project in some way, but I'm not sure the best > way to go about it. > > The problem I'm having is that we should try to increase Free Media > discs sent, rather than requests. > > So should we come up something about sponsorships and then link back to > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/SponsoredMedia > > Or what other ideas do you have? We have a little while before the > banner at TuxMachines will run so lets do some thinking Karlie, I think that the best to do it's to link it to Fedora 8 announcement when it's out. Regarding Free Media Program, it's unlikely that someone clicks on banner and starts sending free media to others, imho. > ~Karlie > -- Marek Mahut http://www.fedoraproject.org/ Fedora Project http://www.jamendo.com/ From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Oct 24 07:09:51 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:09:51 +0300 Subject: Red Hat Magazine | GIMP 2.4 preview Message-ID: <471EEFBF.1010401@nicubunu.ro> This is a preview of the new GIMP 2.4 which will come with Fedora 8 and is (IMO) important for the general desktop user: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/10/23/gimp-24-preview/ Even if it is not a major release feature, I tried to make a tie and talk a bit about F8 too. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Wed Oct 24 05:16:24 2007 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 01:16:24 -0400 Subject: Red Hat Magazine | GIMP 2.4 preview In-Reply-To: <471EEFBF.1010401@nicubunu.ro> References: <471EEFBF.1010401@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <471ED528.30204@prodigy.net.mx> Very nice article, thanks Nicu!! From mmahut at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 24 09:03:23 2007 From: mmahut at fedoraproject.org (Marek Mahut) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:03:23 +0200 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <1193167768.11244.102.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <471DE4B6.3000001@projetofedora.org> <1193167768.11244.102.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <471F0A5B.3040406@fedoraproject.org> Karsten Wade wrote: [...] >> For the red hat engeneers it's make sense, for me not! I don't receive >> money to do my job and to spread Fedora around all Brazilian states! > > It's not just Red Hat employees. There are many more non-Red Hat > employees in the Fedora Project. Many have the same challenge you do. > All of us benefit from the rapid release cycle. I agree, and even, there is not much Red Hat employees paid for Fedora project itself. Many employees does the work on Fedora in their free time. -- Marek Mahut http://www.fedoraproject.org/ Fedora Project http://www.jamendo.com/ From henrique_csj at yahoo.com.br Wed Oct 24 11:38:23 2007 From: henrique_csj at yahoo.com.br (Henrique de Castro) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 04:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Res: Res: Fedora Life Cycle Message-ID: <762805.91679.qm@web45511.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Yes, yes, I'm sorry. I was a little busy when I wrote my message. I mean a life cycle of 13 months; =) Excuse me. Henrique "LonelySpooky" Junior "The best diplomat that I know is a fully-loaded phaser bank." Lt. Cdr. Montgomery Scott ("A Taste of Armageddon") ----- Mensagem original ---- De: Jim Nanney Para: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 24 de Outubro de 2007 2:25:11 Assunto: Re: Res: Fedora Life Cycle -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I think the point of life cycle vs release cycle is getting confused here. Fedora has a release cycle of 6 months. That means a new version is released every 6 months. Support for the previous version (along with updates) are not stopped at 6 months, but rather at 13 months. While this certainly can be daunting, I regularly update my OS every other release (on my server at least). This allows my server to maintain a single distribution for 1 year and gives me one month to test the new release and apply it. Mapping a OS upgrade path prior to rollout should be part of that process. If the upgrade path cannot sustain a 13 month lifecycle (not 6 month as per releases, but 13 month as per updates maintained), then yes, CentOS or RHEL may be the correct path to take. The big confusion here seems to be release cycle vs life cycle. Life cycle is how long the distribution is supported with updates. Release cycle is how long before the next version is released. - --Jim Henrique de Castro wrote: > > > The fundamental point about the discussion which says on fedora?s life > cycle isn?t just the fact that Fedora has a short 6 month cycle and it?s > ?just like that? as some of the present colleagues have clearly pointed. > A lot of people love Fedora and dedicate much of their time to make it > better and to spread it to increase its instalation basis (even here, in > Brazil?s remote caverns). To me and to much more people, Fedora is not > just a Linux distribution with which we work, it is a personal thing and > to be part of it?s expansion is a reason for pride. > > Obviously a Fedora?s fan wish to use it for any day-to-day tasks: it is > powerfull, stable, reliable and solid, but when the subject is critic > mission servers, the short cycle ends on a harmfull point. On such > cases, any upgrade is considered high risk and I?m sure that you all > agree with that. To use CentOS or Red Hat is a good choice, but that?s > not the point; It isn?t the case to search alternatives, but to have for > work one of the best distributions on the world and have to, > unfortunately, give it up for great risk tasks where long cycles are > better fit. > > Do not forget that the people who make the Fedora team immense, frenetic > and incomparably competent also has people around the world, including > Brazil?s cavern men, who abdicate days off, nights and even college > class time for love (as well as everyone here) to Fedora. > > > Regards > > > Henrique "LonelySpooky" Junior -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHHskn3GRPSy3vDJMRAmqwAJ9OOTkX8TvYAv+eTbyF/h74YdCFBACgyG1y jyrK1/wWHLhPkCPv8rVJH8c= =FRQ2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list Abra sua conta no Yahoo! Mail, o ?nico sem limite de espa?o para armazenamento! http://br.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From webpath at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 24 12:16:12 2007 From: webpath at fedoraproject.org (Karlie Robinson) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 08:16:12 -0400 Subject: Fedora Banner for TuxMachines.org In-Reply-To: <471EE742.7090707@fedoraproject.org> References: <471E3688.4070004@fedoraproject.org> <471EE742.7090707@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <471F378C.3090405@fedoraproject.org> Marek Mahut wrote: > > Karlie, I think that the best to do it's to link it to Fedora 8 > announcement when it's out. Regarding Free Media Program, it's unlikely > that someone clicks on banner and starts sending free media to others, imho. > Why would you think that no one is willing to sponsor media? On-Disk.com customers send more media than just about anyone and I was sort of hoping that the marketing team would help market Free Media by way of sponsorships. Forget I mentioned anything. I can find another project who would like the banner space. From caillon at redhat.com Wed Oct 24 12:29:20 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 08:29:20 -0400 Subject: Fedora Banner for TuxMachines.org In-Reply-To: <471E3688.4070004@fedoraproject.org> References: <471E3688.4070004@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <471F3AA0.7030306@redhat.com> Karlie Robinson wrote: > Hi everyone. I usually buy the top banner at tuxmachines.org and I was > wondering if we could come up with something to put up there when Fedora > 8 releases? (TuxMachines has been very good to the developers who list > at On-Disk - see > http://digg.com/linux_unix/Linux_Projects_Best_Kept_Secret) > > Now the banner can be linked to the project home page, or someplace else > if you like. > > I'd also go out on a limb to say that I would really like a banner to > support the Free Media project in some way, but I'm not sure the best > way to go about it. > > The problem I'm having is that we should try to increase Free Media > discs sent, rather than requests. I agree. We've gotten too much of a back log in the Free Media space. Your help with getting media out to people is appreciated Karlie! I'd try and coordinate with whoever on the web team is handling the front page stuff for the F8 release. (I guess ask the Infrastructure guys) From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 24 12:31:17 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:01:17 +0530 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <471F3B15.9090201@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hey again, > > So I've started a bit of work on this, just rough I guess. For people > who are interested, it's going up in my personal wiki area (unless > somebody knows of a better location for drafting it): > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JonathanRoberts/F8Overview > > The PulseAudio bit is more or less what I had in mind, except we could > include screenshots/screencasts where relevant too. Anything much > longer is going to be a lot of work I think. To explain the kind of content I think we should use, I am writing a different summary at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/8/ReleaseSummary Rahul From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed Oct 24 13:37:01 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:37:01 +0100 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <471F3B15.9090201@fedoraproject.org> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> <471F3B15.9090201@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710240637r3419c9f3vb2289d601038e38d@mail.gmail.com> > To explain the kind of content I think we should use, I am writing a > different summary at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/8/ReleaseSummary I'm happy to go with text like that...I should be able to help out again tomorrow - Thanks Rahul, Jon > > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From wdc at MIT.EDU Wed Oct 24 16:21:51 2007 From: wdc at MIT.EDU (William Cattey) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:21:51 -0400 Subject: Fedora Feature Overview In-Reply-To: <471F3B15.9090201@fedoraproject.org> References: <3263b11b0710220417p5f27aaacl8881706cb440a960@mail.gmail.com> <471C8820.1040409@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0710220611j44a51e4dxb2acb3bffc7e4da6@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0710220738q5e7002afk3c4fd64d989d2702@mail.gmail.com> <471F3B15.9090201@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <91EE4453-77A5-4235-9BE1-0BFDAD48614C@mit.edu> Yes! That focus looks like it's going to be very helpful to the understanding of people curious about F8 but who are coming to Fedora from the outside. -Bill ---- William Cattey Linux Platform Coordinator MIT Information Services & Technology N42-040M, 617-253-0140, wdc at mit.edu http://web.mit.edu/wdc/www/ On Oct 24, 2007, at 8:31 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> Hey again, >> So I've started a bit of work on this, just rough I guess. For people >> who are interested, it's going up in my personal wiki area (unless >> somebody knows of a better location for drafting it): >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JonathanRoberts/F8Overview >> The PulseAudio bit is more or less what I had in mind, except we >> could >> include screenshots/screencasts where relevant too. Anything much >> longer is going to be a lot of work I think. > > To explain the kind of content I think we should use, I am writing > a different summary at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/8/ReleaseSummary > > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list From fedora-gmane.00005 at genesis-x.nildram.co.uk Wed Oct 24 18:40:05 2007 From: fedora-gmane.00005 at genesis-x.nildram.co.uk (Keith G. Robertson-Turner) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:40:05 +0100 Subject: Push Poll asking some odd questions about Red Hat Message-ID: <65g4v4-utr.ln1@sky.matrix> Has Red Hat commissioned a poll from Penn, Schoen & Berland Ass. Inc.?: http://www.mit.edu/~mherdeg/pushpoll/ If not, then who is it that's paying for this Red Hat marketing data, and why is it implying there's about to be a patent cross-licensing agreement between Red Hat and Microsoft? Is there? From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 24 18:47:17 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:47:17 -0700 Subject: future of FUDCon proposal Message-ID: <1193251637.28397.22.camel@erato.phig.org> Fresh on Greg's blog: http://gregdek.livejournal.com/17724.html Although he asks for comments in his blog, I encourage you to also make them here. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 24 18:53:22 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:53:22 -0700 Subject: Res: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <471EC927.7030605@mscoast.com> References: <678439.90131.qm@web45504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <471EC927.7030605@mscoast.com> Message-ID: <1193252002.28397.28.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 23:25 -0500, Jim Nanney wrote: > Life cycle is how long the distribution is supported with updates. > Release cycle is how long before the next version is released. Thanks for the clarification, it's a good and fine point. Therefore, the question out there is: "Who will provide support for a Long Life Cycle (LLC) Fedora version?" One choice is to try to convince the Project to extend the life cycle. That seems (to me) like a hard field to try to plow again; it's already plowed, planted, and producing good harvests. Another choice is to add a parallel team that provides the LLC Fedora. It's like annexing the field next door and planting it in a new way. If your goal is to have an LLC Fedora for whatever reason, I encourage you to focus on the second option. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gdk at redhat.com Wed Oct 24 18:54:24 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Push Poll asking some odd questions about Red Hat In-Reply-To: <65g4v4-utr.ln1@sky.matrix> References: <65g4v4-utr.ln1@sky.matrix> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Oct 2007, Keith G. Robertson-Turner wrote: > Has Red Hat commissioned a poll from Penn, Schoen & Berland Ass. Inc.?: > > http://www.mit.edu/~mherdeg/pushpoll/ > > If not, then who is it that's paying for this Red Hat marketing data, > and why is it implying there's about to be a patent cross-licensing > agreement between Red Hat and Microsoft? > > Is there? Are you kidding me? Who would benefit more from a push poll implying that Red Hat violates Microsoft patents -- Red Hat or Microsoft? IANAL, and I can't speak for the company from a legal perspective -- but come on. This one is common sense. --g -- Greg DeKoenigsberg Community Development Manager Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 "To whomsoever much hath been given... ...from him much shall be asked" From jkeating at j2solutions.net Wed Oct 24 19:03:53 2007 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (jkeating) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:03:53 -0400 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <1193252002.28397.28.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <678439.90131.qm@web45504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <471EC927.7030605@mscoast.com> <1193252002.28397.28.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20071024150353.070d2405@j2solutions.net> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:53:22 -0700 Karsten Wade wrote: > Thanks for the clarification, it's a good and fine point. > > Therefore, the question out there is: "Who will provide support for a > Long Life Cycle (LLC) Fedora version?" > > One choice is to try to convince the Project to extend the life cycle. > That seems (to me) like a hard field to try to plow again; it's > already plowed, planted, and producing good harvests. > > Another choice is to add a parallel team that provides the LLC Fedora. > It's like annexing the field next door and planting it in a new way. > > If your goal is to have an LLC Fedora for whatever reason, I encourage > you to focus on the second option. Please keep in mind that id you want to do LLC Fedora, you're going to have to do it for Every release. That's the whole reason you want Fedora, so you get newer software, etc... otherwise you'd take RHEL/CentOS. SO do some math. We release every 6 months, keep a release for 13 months. That means at most we are doing updates for 3 releases. N, N-1, and N-2. That overlap is just one month though, and the rest of the time it's just two releases. Now, if you want LLC, for say 2 years, you're going to be supporting N, N-1, N-2, N-3, N-4. So for a good chunk of time you're going to be managing updates for three different Fedora releases, and all the software therein. That's not a small amount of software and that is not a small amount of releases. It takes a /huge/ amount of effort to continually audit all of those packages for even just security flaws let alone bugfixes and new upstream releases, getting builds out and tested by somebody, and getting them out to mirrors for users. If you want to go further and say have a 3 year life span for each Fedora release you get to add /another/ two Fedora releases to your stable. So 5 releases to watch at any time. Hint, it takes Red Hat an enormous amount of engineering cost to watch RHEL2.1 (critical security only), RHEL3 (soon to be if not already critical only), RHEL4, and now RHEL5. That's only 4, and a /much/ smaller software set. Please don't underestimate the amount of work this is going to take, and the amount of resistance you're going to find if you try to attach the Fedora brand to any such effort. -- Jesse Keating RHCE (jkeating.livejournal.com) Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating) GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From paulds at bu.edu Wed Oct 24 20:34:09 2007 From: paulds at bu.edu (Paul Stauffer) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:34:09 -0400 Subject: future of FUDCon proposal In-Reply-To: <1193251637.28397.22.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1193251637.28397.22.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20071024203409.GD2252@jadzia.bu.edu> On Wed, Oct 24, 2007 at 11:47:17AM -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > http://gregdek.livejournal.com/17724.html > > Although he asks for comments in his blog, I encourage you to also make > them here. :) I just posted this comment: In general this sounds like a positive idea. My one concern from the perspective of a host/organizer is that by picking a firm date based on the timing of another event, it may really limit the ability of a place like BU to be able to continue hosting FUDCon. If there is no flexibility in the dates, there will be a possibility that we might not be able to host it at all if there happens to be some scheduling conflict on our end. A bit of flexibility always helps with that. That said, we managed to do it in conjunction with LinuxWorld for two years, though the 2005 FUDCon suffered a bit as a result of that constraint. Regarding the comment about Brazil and the rest of the world, I assume that this proposal does not exclude the possibility of other FUDCon events. It's just an attempt to formally plan for a couple big ones each year. - Paul -- Paul Stauffer Manager of Research Computing Computer Science Department Boston University From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 24 20:50:15 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:50:15 -0700 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <20071024150353.070d2405@j2solutions.net> References: <678439.90131.qm@web45504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <471EC927.7030605@mscoast.com> <1193252002.28397.28.camel@erato.phig.org> <20071024150353.070d2405@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <1193259015.28397.54.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-10-24 at 15:03 -0400, jkeating wrote: > Please keep in mind that id you want to do LLC Fedora, you're going to > have to do it for Every release. That's the whole reason you want > Fedora, so you get newer software, etc... otherwise you'd take > RHEL/CentOS. That's one way to do it. But not the only way. There is a middle ground -- two years of support for every odd numbered version of Fedora isn't nearly the same thing as *EL. It's really just adding 11 months to the end of the odd release. The updates available from the 13 month EOL of F* will still be pretty fresh 11 months later, especially compared to how crusty the associated *EL release could be by then. Obviously if we chart it all out, we'll see some times of continuity where the F*odd is lined right up with the *EL version. I'd figure that any group that wants to do LLC Fedora would spend some time figuring that out. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 24 20:50:39 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:50:39 -0700 Subject: Push Poll asking some odd questions about Red Hat In-Reply-To: References: <65g4v4-utr.ln1@sky.matrix> Message-ID: <1193259039.28397.55.camel@erato.phig.org> OT On Wed, 2007-10-24 at 14:54 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > On Wed, 24 Oct 2007, Keith G. Robertson-Turner wrote: > > > Has Red Hat commissioned a poll from Penn, Schoen & Berland Ass. Inc.?: > > > > http://www.mit.edu/~mherdeg/pushpoll/ > > > > If not, then who is it that's paying for this Red Hat marketing data, > > and why is it implying there's about to be a patent cross-licensing > > agreement between Red Hat and Microsoft? > > > > Is there? > > Are you kidding me? > > Who would benefit more from a push poll implying that Red Hat violates > Microsoft patents -- Red Hat or Microsoft? > > IANAL, and I can't speak for the company from a legal perspective -- but > come on. This one is common sense. > > --g > > -- > Greg DeKoenigsberg > Community Development Manager > Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255 > "To whomsoever much hath been given... > ...from him much shall be asked" > -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 24 20:52:57 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:52:57 -0700 Subject: future of FUDCon proposal In-Reply-To: <20071024203409.GD2252@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <1193251637.28397.22.camel@erato.phig.org> <20071024203409.GD2252@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1193259177.28397.58.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-10-24 at 16:34 -0400, Paul Stauffer wrote: > My one concern from the perspective of a host/organizer is that by picking a > firm date based on the timing of another event, it may really limit the > ability of a place like BU to be able to continue hosting FUDCon. If there > is no flexibility in the dates, there will be a possibility that we might > not be able to host it at all if there happens to be some scheduling > conflict on our end. A bit of flexibility always helps with that. That said, > we managed to do it in conjunction with LinuxWorld for two years, though the > 2005 FUDCon suffered a bit as a result of that constraint. That's a good point. Greg: How connected to the Red Hat Summit are the FUDCons? Is the Summit providing space and etc.? There was some niceness about the independent working, and BU has been an awesome partner/contributor in this. But getting a chance to make FUDCon a bigger and better thing is worth it. Imagine if $someone were doing all the logistics and all we have to do is fill the whiteboard on the day of the talks? :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fedora-gmane.00005 at genesis-x.nildram.co.uk Thu Oct 25 10:37:42 2007 From: fedora-gmane.00005 at genesis-x.nildram.co.uk (Keith G. Robertson-Turner) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:37:42 +0100 Subject: Push Poll asking some odd questions about Red Hat In-Reply-To: References: <65g4v4-utr.ln1@sky.matrix> Message-ID: Verily I say unto thee, that Greg DeKoenigsberg spake thusly: > On Wed, 24 Oct 2007, Keith G. Robertson-Turner wrote: >> Has Red Hat commissioned a poll from Penn, Schoen & Berland Ass. >> Inc.?: [...] > Who would benefit more from a push poll implying that Red Hat > violates Microsoft patents -- Red Hat or Microsoft? I suspected as much, but didn't want to presume. Does Matthew Szulik read this list? What's the easiest way to bring this poll to his attention? I feel he aught to know what's going on. (I couldn't find a corresponding "Red Hat Marketing" list.) From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 25 09:42:47 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:12:47 +0530 Subject: Push Poll asking some odd questions about Red Hat In-Reply-To: References: <65g4v4-utr.ln1@sky.matrix> Message-ID: <47206517.1000409@fedoraproject.org> Keith G. Robertson-Turner wrote: > Verily I say unto thee, that Greg DeKoenigsberg spake thusly: >> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007, Keith G. Robertson-Turner wrote: > >>> Has Red Hat commissioned a poll from Penn, Schoen & Berland Ass. >>> Inc.?: > [...] >> Who would benefit more from a push poll implying that Red Hat >> violates Microsoft patents -- Red Hat or Microsoft? > > I suspected as much, but didn't want to presume. > > Does Matthew Szulik read this list? What's the easiest way to bring this > poll to his attention? I feel he aught to know what's going on. > (I couldn't find a corresponding "Red Hat Marketing" list.) Contacting the press people would be appropriate here. http://www.redhat.com/about/news/presskit/ Rahul From mxcarron at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 25 11:28:53 2007 From: mxcarron at fedoraproject.org (Maxime Carron) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:28:53 +0200 Subject: Fedora Life Cycle In-Reply-To: <1193259015.28397.54.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <678439.90131.qm@web45504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <471EC927.7030605@mscoast.com> <1193252002.28397.28.camel@erato.phig.org> <20071024150353.070d2405@j2solutions.net> <1193259015.28397.54.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20071025132853.50b082b3@lolita.maxca.org> Le Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:50:15 -0700, Karsten Wade a ?crit : > On Wed, 2007-10-24 at 15:03 -0400, jkeating wrote: > > > Please keep in mind that id you want to do LLC Fedora, you're going > > to have to do it for Every release. That's the whole reason you > > want Fedora, so you get newer software, etc... otherwise you'd take > > RHEL/CentOS. > > That's one way to do it. But not the only way. There is a middle > ground -- two years of support for every odd numbered version of > Fedora isn't nearly the same thing as *EL. It's really just adding > 11 months to the end of the odd release. The updates available from > the 13 month EOL of F* will still be pretty fresh 11 months later, > especially compared to how crusty the associated *EL release could be > by then. > > Obviously if we chart it all out, we'll see some times of continuity > where the F*odd is lined right up with the *EL version. I'd figure > that any group that wants to do LLC Fedora would spend some time > figuring that out. > > - Karsten RH/CentOS 5 is almost FC6. RH/CentOS is support for 7 years. Next EL release will be based on F-9. (Am I right?) This mean every year and a half you've got a LLC release. What you describe *IS* RH/CentOS. Why do you want Fedora to do this too? M. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fedora-gmane.00005 at genesis-x.nildram.co.uk Thu Oct 25 15:13:28 2007 From: fedora-gmane.00005 at genesis-x.nildram.co.uk (Keith G. Robertson-Turner) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:13:28 +0100 Subject: Push Poll asking some odd questions about Red Hat In-Reply-To: <47206517.1000409@fedoraproject.org> References: <65g4v4-utr.ln1@sky.matrix> <47206517.1000409@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: Verily I say unto thee, that Rahul Sundaram spake thusly: > Contacting the press people would be appropriate here. > > http://www.redhat.com/about/news/presskit/ Thanks. I have contacted them with this information. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 25 19:16:39 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 00:46:39 +0530 Subject: Fedora 8 Release Summary: Call For Participation Message-ID: <4720EB97.6000301@fedoraproject.org> Hi http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/8/ReleaseSummary More content in the wiki, feedback welcome. Rahul From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu Oct 25 21:32:57 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:32:57 +0100 Subject: Interview 6 Message-ID: <3263b11b0710251432s7a04e1f6ob8b3bc7cfa88156@mail.gmail.com> Hey all, Just put the 6th interview up with Dimitris Glezos about transifex. Find it here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/DimitrisGlezos And if you enjoy it, like always, you can give it a digg :D http://digg.com/linux_unix/Transifex_better_translations_for_everyone Yours kindly, Jon From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 25 21:35:07 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 03:05:07 +0530 Subject: Interview 6 In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710251432s7a04e1f6ob8b3bc7cfa88156@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710251432s7a04e1f6ob8b3bc7cfa88156@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47210C0B.1010302@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hey all, > > Just put the 6th interview up with Dimitris Glezos about transifex. > > Find it here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/DimitrisGlezos > > And if you enjoy it, like always, you can give it a digg :D > > http://digg.com/linux_unix/Transifex_better_translations_for_everyone > Thanks for your work as always. Which sites are you submitting this? Rahul From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu Oct 25 21:38:59 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:38:59 +0100 Subject: Interview 6 In-Reply-To: <47210C0B.1010302@fedoraproject.org> References: <3263b11b0710251432s7a04e1f6ob8b3bc7cfa88156@mail.gmail.com> <47210C0B.1010302@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710251438s430a24c2kda8c2755b8b7c49f@mail.gmail.com> On 25/10/2007, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > Hey all, > > > > Just put the 6th interview up with Dimitris Glezos about transifex. > > > > Find it here: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/DimitrisGlezos > > > > And if you enjoy it, like always, you can give it a digg :D > > > > http://digg.com/linux_unix/Transifex_better_translations_for_everyone > > > > Thanks for your work as always. Which sites are you submitting this? I hadn't thought about that yet actually, was just about to head to bed as I'm exhausted! Feel free to submit in anywhere you like, otherwise I'll do it in the morning... Jon > > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From ben.lewis at benl.co.uk Sat Oct 27 19:16:08 2007 From: ben.lewis at benl.co.uk (Benjamin Lewis) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:16:08 +0100 Subject: Joke Fedora certificate of authenticity (based on the joke Ubuntu one) Message-ID: <200710272016.13459.ben.lewis@benl.co.uk> Just saw this: http://ubuntology.com/2007/10/26/ubuntu-certificate-of-authenticity/ I have to say, I think it would be really funny if someone made a Fedora one! May be a bit of advertising, if someone happens to look at the bottom of you laptop... ;) -- Benjamin Lewis Fedora Ambassador ben.lewis at benl.co.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------------- http://benl.co.uk./ PGP Key: 0x647E480C "In cases of major discrepancy, it is always reality that got it wrong" -- RFC 1118 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From riel at redhat.com Sun Oct 28 23:31:03 2007 From: riel at redhat.com (Rik van Riel) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 19:31:03 -0400 Subject: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing Message-ID: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> Over the last few years, we have noticed a few interesting phenomena. A lot of new technology was developed in the Fedora community and the fedora-marketing community wrote great content about the software. However, the main stream press often did not pick up on the fact and sometimes ended up with the impression that the technology was invented by the first distribution to be loud about it. Worse yet, a while later Fedora (and Red Hat) get labelled "copiers". Not only is this frustrating to the developers who implemented the software, it is also bad for the image of Fedora and, by extension, Red Hat. It does not have to be this way. The fedora-marketing community has great content; the Red Hat marketing department has great channels to get content distributed and is willing to use those for Fedora. I am talking about things like press releases, the press.redhat.com blog, Red Hat Magazine (already used by Fedora?) and personal contact with journalists. In order for Fedora to be able to use those channels, we need to do a few things: - Figure out exactly what we want. What kind of press attention do we need most and for what kind of content? - For press releases, we need a Fedora tagline (goes at the beginning of a press release) and boilerplate (goes at the end) to act as descriptors for Fedora. While we have Leigh's attention, maybe we can start with the excellent interview of Dimitris Glezos on Transifex? It would be a good example of great content which deserves to be promoted heavily. I do not know much about marketing, so I will close with an observation of the news: have you ever seen a "breaking news" article that did not have either some cut'n'pasted text from a press release, or a lack of details? Being first with some news on the internet means there is little time for research. Afterwards, half the internet syndicates that first article, while a few dedicated journalists go out of their way to do lots of research. I believe that if we make it easier for the cut'n'paste journalists to publish information on Fedora, we will greatly increase the amount of publicity Fedora gets. -- "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 28 23:54:01 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 05:24:01 +0530 Subject: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> References: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> Message-ID: <47252119.9070001@fedoraproject.org> Rik van Riel wrote: > > While we have Leigh's attention, maybe we can start with the excellent > interview of Dimitris Glezos on Transifex? It would be a good example > of great content which deserves to be promoted heavily. Sure. We have a lot of content Red Hat Marketing can use to promote the work being done here. The Fedora 8 series of interviews are a good start. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews The first 6 interviews are about Fedora 8 features and I have given a list of other features and contributors for us to highlight. I have started writing a summary http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/8/ReleaseSummary We should have started earlier on this but better late than never. One thing to note is that none of us here are experts in marketing. What I would really want is folks from Red Hat Marketing to guide us and participate in our efforts so that we have more professional eyes looking into this. The documentation and marketing is two projects where Red Hat people working on that area could co-ordinate with the Fedora contributors more. Rahul From riel at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 00:25:25 2007 From: riel at redhat.com (Rik van Riel) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:25:25 -0400 Subject: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <47252119.9070001@fedoraproject.org> References: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> <47252119.9070001@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20071028202525.0b659418@bree.surriel.com> On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 05:24:01 +0530 Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Rik van Riel wrote: > > While we have Leigh's attention, maybe we can start with the > > excellent interview of Dimitris Glezos on Transifex? It would be a > > good example of great content which deserves to be promoted heavily. > > Sure. We have a lot of content Red Hat Marketing can use to promote > the work being done here. The Fedora 8 series of interviews are a > good start. I suspect that simply pointing Red Hat's marketing people at a mountain of content and going "here, you write something cool" is going to work. If we want to improve Fedora's outreach, we first need to figure out what we want and how to do it. > We should have started earlier on this but better late than never. > One thing to note is that none of us here are experts in marketing. > What I would really want is folks from Red Hat Marketing to guide us > and participate in our efforts so that we have more professional eyes > looking into this. That I suspect could be a good use of time by people in Red Hat's marketing department: teach the fedora-marketing crowd "how to fish", so future collaboration goes smoother. -- "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan From riel at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 00:32:02 2007 From: riel at redhat.com (Rik van Riel) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:32:02 -0400 Subject: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <20071028202525.0b659418@bree.surriel.com> References: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> <47252119.9070001@fedoraproject.org> <20071028202525.0b659418@bree.surriel.com> Message-ID: <20071028203202.284c5660@bree.surriel.com> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:25:25 -0400 Rik van Riel wrote: > On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 05:24:01 +0530 > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Rik van Riel wrote: > > > > While we have Leigh's attention, maybe we can start with the > > > excellent interview of Dimitris Glezos on Transifex? It would be > > > a good example of great content which deserves to be promoted > > > heavily. > > > > Sure. We have a lot of content Red Hat Marketing can use to promote > > the work being done here. The Fedora 8 series of interviews are a > > good start. > > I suspect that simply pointing Red Hat's marketing people at > a mountain of content and going "here, you write something > cool" is going to work. Umm, that should have been "is NOT going to work". Well, you get my point :) -- "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan From riel at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 00:51:03 2007 From: riel at redhat.com (Rik van Riel) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:51:03 -0400 Subject: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <472529AB.5060702@redhat.com> References: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> <47252119.9070001@fedoraproject.org> <20071028202525.0b659418@bree.surriel.com> <472529AB.5060702@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20071028205103.6d63eff9@bree.surriel.com> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:30:35 -0400 Leigh Cantrell Day wrote: > "how to fish" for PR/press blogs/industry analyst briefings is > communications at redhat.com. Just send us stuff that's coming up, news > to get out, perspectives, etc. & we'll make it happen on a global > basis. What kind of information do we need to send to communications@ in order to get a story out? For example, I believe that the following interview would be a great story to get out: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/DimitrisGlezos However, it is fairly long and I imagine that it may be useful to have some cut'n'pasteable text for journalists to directly put into articles, maybe a description of the technology or something else? How can we make the work of communications@ easier? -- "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan From mmcgrath at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 01:03:53 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:03:53 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] Message-ID: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> Please vote on this: options are: Both Just gnome You've got till wed. :) -Mike -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Rahul Sundaram Subject: Re: Get Fedora Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 06:40:46 +0530 Size: 1968 URL: From david at lovesunix.net Mon Oct 29 01:14:54 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 02:14:54 +0100 Subject: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> References: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> Message-ID: <1193620494.2683.4.camel@dawkins> s?n, 28 10 2007 kl. 19:31 -0400, skrev Rik van Riel: For a while now I've been thinking about doing a "looking ahead" page to show off the upcoming features in Fedora. The format should be accessable and understandable by the average user. If there's an interest in such work I'll get started looking ahead to Fedora 9 as soon as the release features begin trickling in. - David -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 29 01:22:29 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 06:52:29 +0530 Subject: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <1193620494.2683.4.camel@dawkins> References: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> <1193620494.2683.4.camel@dawkins> Message-ID: <472535D5.30505@fedoraproject.org> David Nielsen wrote: > s?n, 28 10 2007 kl. 19:31 -0400, skrev Rik van Riel: > > For a while now I've been thinking about doing a "looking ahead" page to > show off the upcoming features in Fedora. The format should be > accessable and understandable by the average user. If there's an > interest in such work I'll get started looking ahead to Fedora 9 as soon > as the release features begin trickling in. Sure. Keep the list informed on where you are adding this information and we can collectively work on it. Meanwhile I appreciate some help with http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/8/ReleaseSummary Rahul From riel at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 01:35:45 2007 From: riel at redhat.com (Rik van Riel) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 21:35:45 -0400 Subject: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <1193620494.2683.4.camel@dawkins> References: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> <1193620494.2683.4.camel@dawkins> Message-ID: <20071028213545.162d1473@bree.surriel.com> On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 02:14:54 +0100 David Nielsen wrote: > s?n, 28 10 2007 kl. 19:31 -0400, skrev Rik van Riel: > > For a while now I've been thinking about doing a "looking ahead" page > to show off the upcoming features in Fedora. One question though: who would look at the page? If it is just Fedora users looking at the page, the page will still be interesting for them, but it will not help get wide publicity for the Fedora project. If the goal is to increase Fedora's press exposure, we may be better off writing (small) articles about technology as things are implemented and get those distributed as widely as possible. What is your goal? -- "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan From riel at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 01:42:01 2007 From: riel at redhat.com (Rik van Riel) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 21:42:01 -0400 Subject: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <47252055.8080201@redhat.com> References: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> <47252055.8080201@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20071028214201.7d59167c@bree.surriel.com> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 19:50:45 -0400 Leigh Cantrell Day wrote: > What would help greatly would be globally planned launches. > o press release > o supporting press blogs (we have 200 press/analysts subscribed to > our press blog) > o industry analyst meetings done in advance of the annct > o global understanding and firm plans by the int'l PR team to act > simultaneously > o global availability of spokesppl at time annct goes out > o live webcast to discuss launch > > For instance, have learned last week that F8 is coming 11/8. This is > 1 day after a major infrastructure launch. we are basically > competing with our own news and press attn. I suggest we launch to > the community on 11/8 and do big press on 8/12 (all of the elements > mentioned above) to get serious exposure + accurate reporting. It's > also Oracleworld (11/11-11/15) and press are fiendish for news during > this time. Your idea makes sense to me. What do we need to do to make it happen? -- "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan From david at lovesunix.net Mon Oct 29 01:59:26 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 02:59:26 +0100 Subject: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <20071028213545.162d1473@bree.surriel.com> References: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> <1193620494.2683.4.camel@dawkins> <20071028213545.162d1473@bree.surriel.com> Message-ID: <1193623166.2683.10.camel@dawkins> s?n, 28 10 2007 kl. 21:35 -0400, skrev Rik van Riel: > On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 02:14:54 +0100 > David Nielsen wrote: > > s?n, 28 10 2007 kl. 19:31 -0400, skrev Rik van Riel: > > > > For a while now I've been thinking about doing a "looking ahead" page > > to show off the upcoming features in Fedora. > > One question though: who would look at the page? > > If it is just Fedora users looking at the page, the page will > still be interesting for them, but it will not help get wide > publicity for the Fedora project. > > If the goal is to increase Fedora's press exposure, we may be > better off writing (small) articles about technology as things > are implemented and get those distributed as widely as possible. > > What is your goal? I don't see why it wouldn't be as good an option to get a bit of press and stir up some attention by showing off what we are working on as doing articles. I certainly think we should do both, and let's amass a digg army to flood the web with Fedora information. It's one thing to have the information, it's a complete other problem to get the information spread. So far we've seemed to just put in on the wiki and hope people would pick up on it, we need to be more proactive in promoting our coolness. I blogged about the lack of selfworth we seem to have a while back, we don't tell people about all our cool developments, if we aren't proud of and vocal about our work why should the users or the press be? - David -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 29 01:59:53 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:29:53 +0530 Subject: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <1193623166.2683.10.camel@dawkins> References: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> <1193620494.2683.4.camel@dawkins> <20071028213545.162d1473@bree.surriel.com> <1193623166.2683.10.camel@dawkins> Message-ID: <47253E99.2060405@fedoraproject.org> David Nielsen wrote: So far we've seemed to just put in on the wiki and > hope people would pick up on it, we need to be more proactive in > promoting our coolness. This is wrong. All the information is being send out to many places. > I blogged about the lack of selfworth we seem to have a while back, we > don't tell people about all our cool developments, if we aren't proud of > and vocal about our work why should the users or the press be? There has been many calls for help with little to no participation. We are well aware of what we need to do. We just need more people involved to do it. Rahul From riel at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 02:05:54 2007 From: riel at redhat.com (Rik van Riel) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 22:05:54 -0400 Subject: Fw: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing Message-ID: <20071028220554.62438ed0@bree.surriel.com> Oops, mailman eats messages from non-members, so you guys never saw Leigh's emails. This one contains info you did not see in my replies to her, so I'm forwarding this one through. Begin forwarded message: Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 19:50:45 -0400 From: Leigh Cantrell Day To: Rik van Riel Cc: fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com Subject: Re: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing Rik van Riel wrote: > Over the last few years, we have noticed a few interesting phenomena. > A lot of new technology was developed in the Fedora community and the > fedora-marketing community wrote great content about the software. > > However, the main stream press often did not pick up on the fact and > sometimes ended up with the impression that the technology was > invented by the first distribution to be loud about it. > > Worse yet, a while later Fedora (and Red Hat) get labelled "copiers". > Not only is this frustrating to the developers who implemented the > software, it is also bad for the image of Fedora and, by extension, > Red Hat. > > It does not have to be this way. The fedora-marketing community has > great content; the Red Hat marketing department has great channels to > get content distributed and is willing to use those for Fedora. > > I am talking about things like press releases, the press.redhat.com > blog, Red Hat Magazine (already used by Fedora?) and personal contact > with journalists. > > In order for Fedora to be able to use those channels, we need to do > a few things: > - Figure out exactly what we want. What kind of press attention do > we need most and for what kind of content? > - For press releases, we need a Fedora tagline (goes at the beginning > of a press release) and boilerplate (goes at the end) to act as > descriptors for Fedora. > > While we have Leigh's attention, maybe we can start with the excellent > interview of Dimitris Glezos on Transifex? It would be a good example > of great content which deserves to be promoted heavily. > > I do not know much about marketing, so I will close with an > observation of the news: have you ever seen a "breaking news" article > that did not have either some cut'n'pasted text from a press release, > or a lack of details? Being first with some news on the internet > means there is little time for research. Afterwards, half the > internet syndicates that first article, while a few dedicated > journalists go out of their way to do lots of research. I believe > that if we make it easier for the cut'n'paste journalists to publish > information on Fedora, we will greatly increase the amount of > publicity Fedora gets. > What would help greatly would be globally planned launches. Often my team learns of new drops too last minute to be able to develop a large-scale launch that does not compete with other priorities on the calendar. If we have plenty of advance notice, available spokesppl, details, etc. then we could plan a *global* launch at release time that includes the following elements: o press release o supporting press blogs (we have 200 press/analysts subscribed to our press blog) o industry analyst meetings done in advance of the annct o global understanding and firm plans by the int'l PR team to act simultaneously o global availability of spokesppl at time annct goes out o live webcast to discuss launch For instance, have learned last week that F8 is coming 11/8. This is 1 day after a major infrastructure launch. we are basically competing with our own news and press attn. I suggest we launch to the community on 11/8 and do big press (all of the elements mentioned above) to get serious exposure + accurate reporting. It's also Oracleworld (11/11-11/15) and press are fiendish for news during this time. Your thoughts, and support, are appreciated. Those of us dealing with press/analysts also are feeling the void a few have indicated. leigh -- -- "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan From riel at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 02:06:22 2007 From: riel at redhat.com (Rik van Riel) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 22:06:22 -0400 Subject: Fw: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing Message-ID: <20071028220622.310b00f4@bree.surriel.com> ditto Begin forwarded message: Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:30:35 -0400 From: Leigh Cantrell Day To: Rik van Riel Cc: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base , sundaram at fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing Rik van Riel wrote: > On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 05:24:01 +0530 > Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Rik van Riel wrote: > >>> While we have Leigh's attention, maybe we can start with the >>> excellent interview of Dimitris Glezos on Transifex? It would be a >>> good example of great content which deserves to be promoted heavily. >> Sure. We have a lot of content Red Hat Marketing can use to promote >> the work being done here. The Fedora 8 series of interviews are a >> good start. > > I suspect that simply pointing Red Hat's marketing people at > a mountain of content and going "here, you write something > cool" is going to work. > > If we want to improve Fedora's outreach, we first need to > figure out what we want and how to do it. > >> We should have started earlier on this but better late than never. >> One thing to note is that none of us here are experts in marketing. >> What I would really want is folks from Red Hat Marketing to guide us >> and participate in our efforts so that we have more professional >> eyes looking into this. > > That I suspect could be a good use of time by people in > Red Hat's marketing department: teach the fedora-marketing > crowd "how to fish", so future collaboration goes smoother. > "how to fish" for PR/press blogs/industry analyst briefings is communications at redhat.com. Just send us stuff that's coming up, news to get out, perspectives, etc. & we'll make it happen on a global basis. leigh -- -- "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan From riel at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 02:09:26 2007 From: riel at redhat.com (Rik van Riel) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 22:09:26 -0400 Subject: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <1193623166.2683.10.camel@dawkins> References: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> <1193620494.2683.4.camel@dawkins> <20071028213545.162d1473@bree.surriel.com> <1193623166.2683.10.camel@dawkins> Message-ID: <20071028220926.20eaf368@bree.surriel.com> On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 02:59:26 +0100 David Nielsen wrote: > I don't see why it wouldn't be as good an option to get a bit of press > and stir up some attention by showing off what we are working on as > doing articles. I certainly think we should do both, and let's amass a > digg army to flood the web with Fedora information. It's one thing to > have the information, it's a complete other problem to get the > information spread. So far we've seemed to just put in on the wiki and > hope people would pick up on it, we need to be more proactive in > promoting our coolness. Apparently we are in violent agreement :) I thought you just wanted to write good content and leave it on the wiki. It is good to know you want to get it widely distributed, too. -- "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Mon Oct 29 02:07:56 2007 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:07:56 -0200 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4725407C.1090902@projetofedora.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 +1 Both In Brazil more than 50% of fedora users use KDE as default DESKTOP. Mike McGrath escreveu: > Please vote on this: > > options are: > > Both > > Just gnome > > You've got till wed. :) > > -Mike > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Assunto: > Re: Get Fedora > De: > Rahul Sundaram > Data: > Mon, 29 Oct 2007 06:40:46 +0530 > Para: > Mike McGrath > > Para: > Mike McGrath > CC: > "For maintainers and developers of all formal Fedora websites." > > > > Mike McGrath wrote: > >> I'd actually argue thats a marketing decision (whether or not KDE is >> linked on the get fedora page or not) > > Yes it is. So if I had to make the marketing decision, I would agree > that GNOME and KDE should be both highlighted there. Also if only > official spins can be mirrored, they both must be considered official > spins. > > Rahul > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHJUB1Pg3HAC1vlg4RAiI1AKCduUpD6DQX6IylQCARmPvH2wXyTACfUzm2 Vnd8TW/ctim+a7duysmZtKc= =TUl1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From anandcomputerphreak at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 02:25:02 2007 From: anandcomputerphreak at gmail.com (Anand Capur) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 22:25:02 -0400 Subject: Joke Fedora certificate of authenticity (based on the joke Ubuntu one) In-Reply-To: <200710272016.13459.ben.lewis@benl.co.uk> References: <200710272016.13459.ben.lewis@benl.co.uk> Message-ID: On 10/27/07, Benjamin Lewis wrote: > > Just saw this: > http://ubuntology.com/2007/10/26/ubuntu-certificate-of-authenticity/ > > I have to say, I think it would be really funny if someone made a Fedora > one! > May be a bit of advertising, if someone happens to look at the bottom of > you > laptop... ;) > -- > > Benjamin Lewis > Fedora Ambassador > ben.lewis at benl.co.uk > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > http://benl.co.uk./ PGP Key: 0x647E480C > > "In cases of major discrepancy, it is always reality that got it wrong" > -- RFC 1118 Nice, I'll make one tomorrow (they were nice enough to provide the vector art) -Anand -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael.d.beckwith at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 01:30:09 2007 From: michael.d.beckwith at gmail.com (Michael Beckwith) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 21:30:09 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> Message-ID: <472537A1.20108@gmail.com> Both Mike McGrath wrote: > Please vote on this: > > options are: > > Both > > Just gnome > > You've got till wed. :) > > -Mike -- ~Michael http://ridleytx.structed.net (for now) http://michaelbox.net (eventually) From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Oct 29 03:57:43 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:57:43 +0900 (WST) Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <472537A1.20108@gmail.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <472537A1.20108@gmail.com> Message-ID: <35119.139.230.245.20.1193630263.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> > Both > > Mike McGrath wrote: >> Please vote on this: >> >> options are: >> >> Both >> >> Just gnome >> >> You've got till wed. :) >> >> -Mike > > Both Marc From mmcgrath at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 04:47:57 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 23:47:57 -0500 Subject: Vixta: Nice concept, incomplete execution Message-ID: <472565FD.5050709@redhat.com> "Vixta is a new Linux distribution, first released only last month, based on the not-yet-released Fedora 8. Its main objective is to emulate the visual aspects of Microsoft Vista." http://www.linux.com/feature/120278 Couple of things: "On the desktop is a Vixta installer, which is the Fedora live CD installer with no customizations or changes. It walks the user through configuration steps such as partitioning and setting up filesystems. It installs a standard system -- no package selection is offered." Doesn't sound very glowing, and is something we'll run into when F8 ships. Also: "No Vixta source code has been made available, but some on the forum suggested that since the distribution is based on Fedora core, whose source is readily available, it isn't necessary -- though this is not true ." Do we have someone that looks into cases like that? -Mike From aphukan at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 29 05:52:35 2007 From: aphukan at fedoraproject.org (Amitakhya Phukan) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:22:35 +0530 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47257523.5060408@fedoraproject.org> Mike McGrath wrote: > Please vote on this: > > options are: > > Both > > Just gnome > > You've got till wed. :) > > -Mike > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: Get Fedora > From: > Rahul Sundaram > Date: > Mon, 29 Oct 2007 06:40:46 +0530 > To: > Mike McGrath > > To: > Mike McGrath > CC: > "For maintainers and developers of all formal Fedora websites." > > > > Mike McGrath wrote: > >> I'd actually argue thats a marketing decision (whether or not KDE is >> linked on the get fedora page or not) > > Yes it is. So if I had to make the marketing decision, I would agree > that GNOME and KDE should be both highlighted there. Also if only > official spins can be mirrored, they both must be considered official > spins. > > Rahul both regards, amit. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: aphukan.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 216 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From himam at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 29 07:07:58 2007 From: himam at fedoraproject.org (Hisham Abdel-Magid) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:07:58 +0300 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47257523.5060408@fedoraproject.org> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <47257523.5060408@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <59e007ed0710290007o597e8180v3415f6b4b90bf7d1@mail.gmail.com> +1 on both HishamAbdelMagid On 10/29/07, Amitakhya Phukan wrote: > > Mike McGrath wrote: > > Please vote on this: > > > > options are: > > > > Both > > > > Just gnome > > > > You've got till wed. :) > > > > -Mike > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Subject: > > Re: Get Fedora > > From: > > Rahul Sundaram > > Date: > > Mon, 29 Oct 2007 06:40:46 +0530 > > To: > > Mike McGrath > > > > To: > > Mike McGrath > > CC: > > "For maintainers and developers of all formal Fedora websites." > > > > > > > > Mike McGrath wrote: > > > >> I'd actually argue thats a marketing decision (whether or not KDE is > >> linked on the get fedora page or not) > > > > Yes it is. So if I had to make the marketing decision, I would agree > > that GNOME and KDE should be both highlighted there. Also if only > > official spins can be mirrored, they both must be considered official > > spins. > > > > Rahul > both > > regards, > amit. > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > -- Eng. Hisham Isam M. Abdel-Magid Fedora Ambassador in Sudan, Dept. of Shelter & Physical Development (DSPD) Institute for Technological Research (ITR) National Center for Research (NCR) Ministry of Science and Technology (MOST) P.O.Box 2404 Khartoum Sudan Mobile: +249 122 007 122 E.mail: himam at fedoraproject.org wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HishamAbdelMagid -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 29 08:39:22 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:39:22 +0200 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47259C3A.2050204@nicubunu.ro> Mike McGrath wrote: > Please vote on this: > > options are: > > Both > > Just gnome > > You've got till wed. :) Well, this is a bad thing to vote on: - KDE supporters will naturally vote "both"; - GNOME supporters will not vote at all, as they don't want to be labeled selfish bastards. I don't vote :p > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: Get Fedora > From: > Rahul Sundaram > Date: > Mon, 29 Oct 2007 06:40:46 +0530 > To: > Mike McGrath > > To: > Mike McGrath > CC: > "For maintainers and developers of all formal Fedora websites." > > > > Mike McGrath wrote: >> I'd actually argue thats a marketing decision (whether or not KDE is >> linked on the get fedora page or not) > > Yes it is. So if I had to make the marketing decision, I would agree > that GNOME and KDE should be both highlighted there. Also if only > official spins can be mirrored, they both must be considered official > spins. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From simon at simline.de Mon Oct 29 08:40:17 2007 From: simon at simline.de (JoergSimon) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:40:17 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200710290940.23104.simon@simline.de> Am Montag, 29. Oktober 2007 02:03:53 schrieb Mike McGrath: > Please vote on this: > > options are: > > Both > > Just gnome +1 Both -- J?rg Simon jsimon at fedoraproject.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon Key Fingerprint: 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 29 08:56:19 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:56:19 +0200 Subject: Fw: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <20071028220554.62438ed0@bree.surriel.com> References: <20071028220554.62438ed0@bree.surriel.com> Message-ID: <4725A033.1030405@nicubunu.ro> Rik van Riel wrote: > Oops, mailman eats messages from non-members, so you guys never > saw Leigh's emails. This one contains info you did not see in > my replies to her, so I'm forwarding this one through. Well, it does not eat the messages, it only route them to moderation and also the moderator can list specific unsubscribed addresses to be always accepted. > Begin forwarded message: > > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 19:50:45 -0400 > From: Leigh Cantrell Day > To: Rik van Riel > > What would help greatly would be globally planned launches. Often my > team learns of new drops too last minute to be able to develop a > large-scale launch that does not compete with other priorities on the > calendar. If we have plenty of advance notice, available spokesppl, > details, etc. then we could plan a *global* launch at release time > that includes the following elements: [...] > For instance, have learned last week that F8 is coming 11/8. This is 1 > day after a major infrastructure launch. we are basically competing Well, the release schedules, as good as we can do, are publicly available at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases Unfortunately, due to the specific nature, the final date is not set in stone and the experience teach us all the releases so far slipped at least a few days at the last minute. Even now we talk (on the devel list) about some potential blockers which may delay the release, but the probability is low. > with our own news and press attn. I suggest we launch to the community > on 11/8 and do big press (all of the elements mentioned above) to get > serious exposure + accurate reporting. It's also Oracleworld > (11/11-11/15) and press are fiendish for news during this time. > > Your thoughts, and support, are appreciated. Those of us dealing with > press/analysts also are feeling the void a few have indicated. I don't think only release dates are worth publicizing, there are many technological advances, like the inclusion of Iced Tea which are important and known well in advance and could be used to build expectation and momentum. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 29 09:01:46 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:01:46 +0200 Subject: Fw: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <20071028220622.310b00f4@bree.surriel.com> References: <20071028220622.310b00f4@bree.surriel.com> Message-ID: <4725A17A.5000008@nicubunu.ro> > From: Leigh Cantrell Day > Rik van Riel wrote: >>> We should have started earlier on this but better late than never. >>> One thing to note is that none of us here are experts in marketing. >>> What I would really want is folks from Red Hat Marketing to guide us >>> and participate in our efforts so that we have more professional >>> eyes looking into this. >> That I suspect could be a good use of time by people in >> Red Hat's marketing department: teach the fedora-marketing >> crowd "how to fish", so future collaboration goes smoother. >> > > "how to fish" for PR/press blogs/industry analyst briefings is > communications at redhat.com. Just send us stuff that's coming up, news > to get out, perspectives, etc. & we'll make it happen on a global basis. I believe we hoped for a little more: a few pointers about what kind of content to be sent at communications at rh, topics, format, medium, length and so on. We surely don't want to spam that address with useless messages. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From gerold at lugd.org Mon Oct 29 09:24:11 2007 From: gerold at lugd.org (Gerold) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:24:11 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47257523.5060408@fedoraproject.org> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <47257523.5060408@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1304.193.165.60.66.1193649851.squirrel@www.gbc.net> > Mike McGrath wrote: >> Please vote on this: >> >> options are: >> >> Both >> >> Just gnome _ONLY_ (just) gnome :-) Regards Gerold From thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 09:40:46 2007 From: thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com (susmit shannigrahi) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:10:46 +0530 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> Message-ID: Both -- Regards, Susmit. ====================================== ssh 0x86DD170A http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SusmitShannigrahi ====================================== From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 29 09:50:41 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:50:41 +0200 Subject: Joke Fedora certificate of authenticity (based on the joke Ubuntu one) In-Reply-To: References: <200710272016.13459.ben.lewis@benl.co.uk> Message-ID: <4725ACF1.2090505@nicubunu.ro> Anand Capur wrote: > On 10/27/07, *Benjamin Lewis* Just saw this: > http://ubuntology.com/2007/10/26/ubuntu-certificate-of-authenticity/ > > I have to say, I think it would be really funny if someone made a > Fedora one! > May be a bit of advertising, if someone happens to look at the > bottom of you > laptop... ;) > > > Nice, I'll make one tomorrow (they were nice enough to provide the > vector art) Here is mine: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork/stickers/fedora-authenticity-certificate.png with source: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork/stickers/fedora-authenticity-certificate.svg Note: it is based on the Ubuntu design so therefore is GPL. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Mon Oct 29 10:01:01 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:01:01 +0000 Subject: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <1193623166.2683.10.camel@dawkins> References: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> <1193620494.2683.4.camel@dawkins> <20071028213545.162d1473@bree.surriel.com> <1193623166.2683.10.camel@dawkins> Message-ID: <1193652061.3019.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 02:59 +0100, David Nielsen wrote: > s?n, 28 10 2007 kl. 21:35 -0400, skrev Rik van Riel: > > On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 02:14:54 +0100 > > David Nielsen wrote: > > > s?n, 28 10 2007 kl. 19:31 -0400, skrev Rik van Riel: > > > > > > For a while now I've been thinking about doing a "looking ahead" page > > > to show off the upcoming features in Fedora. > > > > One question though: who would look at the page? > > > > If it is just Fedora users looking at the page, the page will > > still be interesting for them, but it will not help get wide > > publicity for the Fedora project. > > > > If the goal is to increase Fedora's press exposure, we may be > > better off writing (small) articles about technology as things > > are implemented and get those distributed as widely as possible. > > > > What is your goal? > > I don't see why it wouldn't be as good an option to get a bit of press > and stir up some attention by showing off what we are working on as > doing articles. I certainly think we should do both, and let's amass a > digg army to flood the web with Fedora information. It's one thing to > have the information, it's a complete other problem to get the > information spread. So far we've seemed to just put in on the wiki and > hope people would pick up on it, we need to be more proactive in > promoting our coolness. > > I blogged about the lack of selfworth we seem to have a while back, we > don't tell people about all our cool developments, if we aren't proud of > and vocal about our work why should the users or the press be? If you want to help, one thing you could do is help out with the feature preview interviews - it doesn't take a lot to put some questions together for the relevant developers, but wikifying them and posting around the various news sites can be a bit tedious. I'm not sure if you've noticed this or not, but over the last little while I've been trying quite hard to get plenty of information out about the coolest new features in Fedora 8 and got several articles to the digg front page with 100s of votes. Anyway, if you want to help that would be awesome, but do keep us informed of other efforts you may want to undertake and I'm sure me and everyone on this list will do our best to help out! http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews Best wishes, Jon > > - David > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list From henrique_csj at yahoo.com.br Mon Oct 29 11:05:02 2007 From: henrique_csj at yahoo.com.br (Henrique de Castro) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:05:02 -0200 Subject: Joke Fedora certificate of authenticity (based on the joke Ubuntu one) In-Reply-To: <4725ACF1.2090505@nicubunu.ro> References: <200710272016.13459.ben.lewis@benl.co.uk> <4725ACF1.2090505@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <4f629b520710290405r4564b781v1b1741358bfa0bec@mail.gmail.com> I know that Nicu soon would create his version too. =) Good work. 2007/10/29, Nicu Buculei : > > Anand Capur wrote: > > On 10/27/07, *Benjamin Lewis* > Just saw this: > > http://ubuntology.com/2007/10/26/ubuntu-certificate-of-authenticity/ > > > > I have to say, I think it would be really funny if someone made a > > Fedora one! > > May be a bit of advertising, if someone happens to look at the > > bottom of you > > laptop... ;) > > > > > > Nice, I'll make one tomorrow (they were nice enough to provide the > > vector art) > > Here is mine: > > http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork/stickers/fedora-authenticity-certificate.png > with source: > > http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork/stickers/fedora-authenticity-certificate.svg > > Note: it is based on the Ubuntu design so therefore is GPL. > > -- > nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com > Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Henrique "LonelySpooky" Junior ------------------------------------------------------------- "The best diplomat that I know is a fully-loaded phaser bank." Lt. Cdr. Montgomery Scott ("A Taste of Armageddon") -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From diegobz at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 11:06:15 2007 From: diegobz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Diego_B=FArigo_Zacar=E3o?=) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:06:15 -0300 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> Message-ID: <6600c1b10710290406q24141d63kc5ac79a5f268d1f0@mail.gmail.com> +1 for Both 2007/10/28, Mike McGrath : > > Please vote on this: > > options are: > > Both > > Just gnome > > You've got till wed. :) > > -Mike > > Mike McGrath wrote: > > > I'd actually argue thats a marketing decision (whether or not KDE is > > linked on the get fedora page or not) > > Yes it is. So if I had to make the marketing decision, I would agree > that GNOME and KDE should be both highlighted there. Also if only > official spins can be mirrored, they both must be considered official > spins. > > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Diego B?rigo Zacar?o Linux User #402589 USE SOFTWARE LIVRE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 29 11:05:09 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:35:09 +0530 Subject: Joke Fedora certificate of authenticity (based on the joke Ubuntu one) In-Reply-To: <4725ACF1.2090505@nicubunu.ro> References: <200710272016.13459.ben.lewis@benl.co.uk> <4725ACF1.2090505@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <4725BE65.7000709@fedoraproject.org> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Here is mine: > http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork/stickers/fedora-authenticity-certificate.png > > with source: > http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork/stickers/fedora-authenticity-certificate.svg > > > Note: it is based on the Ubuntu design so therefore is GPL. Good work. It would be good to link to this from the artwork banner section. Rahul From lisahoover at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 11:08:28 2007 From: lisahoover at gmail.com (Lisa Hoover) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:08:28 -0400 Subject: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <1193652061.3019.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> <1193620494.2683.4.camel@dawkins> <20071028213545.162d1473@bree.surriel.com> <1193623166.2683.10.camel@dawkins> <1193652061.3019.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <7a2761170710290408m16e002fh1bfc7f0531daef97@mail.gmail.com> Hi, This is a really interesting discussion and I see a lot of good ideas here. I'm a technology journalist so perhaps I can shed some light on what might work and what may not. In my opinion, the *number one* thing a group can do to get their message out is to forge a one-on-one relationship with journalists. If you see someone reporting on Fedora somewhere, don't hesitate to drop them an email saying something like, "I saw your review of F8 and thought you'd like to know we've just put up some new information here about XYZ." Many journalists have official or unofficial "beats" based on topics they follow closely, are enthused about, or just happen to know a lot about and will leap on new information -- if they know about it. Two-way communication is, of course, important. Simply throwing a link at a journalist won't work as well as making sure there's someone available to answer questions and offer quotes. Red Hat and Fedora are terrific about this, by the way, and it's fairly easy to connect with someone to get follow-up information. I only bring it up to suggest that 20 people randomly emailing journalists may not bring results as good as a coordinated effort that includes a go-to person for more info. It looks like you're already working with Leigh on this. Great! Speaking of quotes: Yes, it's true that some outlets cut and paste from press releases, however most do not. For some, it's against editorial policy, for others it's a personal preference. Therefore, I heartily disagree with the notion that by making it "easier for the cut'n'paste journalists to publish information on Fedora, we will greatly increase the amount of publicity Fedora gets." The "easiest" way to increase publicity is to make the story accessible to the journalist. We need to know, at a minimum, what's happening, why it's important, and where to get additional information to put it into context. Hand that information to a journalist along with contact info for someone willing to quickly answer a couple of follow-up questions and your chances of getting publicity skyrocket. Of *course* I understand that that's a tall order. I know it's not realistic to expect availability like that from a group of volunteers, no matter how dedicated they are (and, again, I think Fedora does an *excellent job already of being available to answer reporters' questions). My point is that, yes, being first on the Internet with news is important but many news Web sites nowadays simply aggregate or compile "breaking news" feeds on a section of their front page so as not to bother with the whole "cut and paste so we can be among the first only to find out everyone else has the *exact same story" issue. The bottom line? Journalists faced with writing a story that F8 has been released will be asking themselves, "What can I say that hasn't already been said?" Believe me when I tell you, we are open to ideas. Nicu's suggestion to contact the media with backstory information like Iced Tea is a great one. For example, I read (here or on another Fedora list) recently that some were disappointed that reviewers didn't talk more about spins and suggested it might be a lack of training or information. This is exactly the kind of information I'd like to have as a tech journalist: an under-reported "feature" of F8 that brings something new to the table and that readers need to be schooled in to know how to use. Anyway, I never meant for this to be quite so long. I think this team is doing a great job. You're all very dedicated and I wish you the best of luck in getting the word out about Fedora. If you've got any questions, just give me a shout. Lisa Hoover On 10/29/07, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 02:59 +0100, David Nielsen wrote: > > s?n, 28 10 2007 kl. 21:35 -0400, skrev Rik van Riel: > > > On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 02:14:54 +0100 > > > David Nielsen wrote: > > > > s?n, 28 10 2007 kl. 19:31 -0400, skrev Rik van Riel: > > > > > > > > For a while now I've been thinking about doing a "looking ahead" page > > > > to show off the upcoming features in Fedora. > > > > > > One question though: who would look at the page? > > > > > > If it is just Fedora users looking at the page, the page will > > > still be interesting for them, but it will not help get wide > > > publicity for the Fedora project. > > > > > > If the goal is to increase Fedora's press exposure, we may be > > > better off writing (small) articles about technology as things > > > are implemented and get those distributed as widely as possible. > > > > > > What is your goal? > > > > I don't see why it wouldn't be as good an option to get a bit of press > > and stir up some attention by showing off what we are working on as > > doing articles. I certainly think we should do both, and let's amass a > > digg army to flood the web with Fedora information. It's one thing to > > have the information, it's a complete other problem to get the > > information spread. So far we've seemed to just put in on the wiki and > > hope people would pick up on it, we need to be more proactive in > > promoting our coolness. > > > > I blogged about the lack of selfworth we seem to have a while back, we > > don't tell people about all our cool developments, if we aren't proud of > > and vocal about our work why should the users or the press be? > > If you want to help, one thing you could do is help out with the feature > preview interviews - it doesn't take a lot to put some questions > together for the relevant developers, but wikifying them and posting > around the various news sites can be a bit tedious. > > I'm not sure if you've noticed this or not, but over the last little > while I've been trying quite hard to get plenty of information out about > the coolest new features in Fedora 8 and got several articles to the > digg front page with 100s of votes. Anyway, if you want to help that > would be awesome, but do keep us informed of other efforts you may want > to undertake and I'm sure me and everyone on this list will do our best > to help out! > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews > > Best wishes, > > Jon > > > > - David > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From caillon at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 11:29:41 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:29:41 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4725C425.7010503@redhat.com> Mike McGrath wrote: > Please vote on this: > > options are: > > Both > > Just gnome Man, such political votes really should be done by private vote. From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 29 11:48:09 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:48:09 +0200 Subject: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <7a2761170710290408m16e002fh1bfc7f0531daef97@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> <1193620494.2683.4.camel@dawkins> <20071028213545.162d1473@bree.surriel.com> <1193623166.2683.10.camel@dawkins> <1193652061.3019.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7a2761170710290408m16e002fh1bfc7f0531daef97@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4725C879.6040702@nicubunu.ro> Lisa Hoover wrote: > > The bottom line? Journalists faced with writing a story that F8 has > been released will be asking themselves, "What can I say that hasn't > already been said?" Believe me when I tell you, we are open to ideas. I think "Fedora 8 is released on 8 November" is, to some degree, a non-story. The story is, "Fedora 8, which is released on 8 November, empower me to do X, Y and Z" (where X, Y and Z are some features I was hungry for for a long time). Also, there are news for various audiences: the games spin (DVD) is probably completely uninteresting for business tech publications but it may be something big for other communities (I bet a news item about it will score high on Digg, it may get on Slashdot, it may get on non-Linux gaming sites). On the same line, stories about Pulse Audio will not get important traction from the business oriented press (as opposed to geek press) but Iced Tea or SELinux may hit a big point there. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From kanarip at kanarip.com Mon Oct 29 11:47:58 2007 From: kanarip at kanarip.com (Jeroen van Meeuwen) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:47:58 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47259C3A.2050204@nicubunu.ro> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <47259C3A.2050204@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <4725C86E.4010707@kanarip.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Mike McGrath wrote: >> Please vote on this: >> >> options are: >> >> Both >> >> Just gnome >> >> You've got till wed. :) > > Well, this is a bad thing to vote on: > - KDE supporters will naturally vote "both"; > - GNOME supporters will not vote at all, as they don't want to be > labeled selfish bastards. > > I don't vote :p > I am a GNOME fanboy; please put me down for both. Kind regards, Jeroen van Meeuwen -kanarip From duffy at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 14:01:13 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:01:13 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <4725C425.7010503@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <4725C425.7010503@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4725E7A9.8090102@redhat.com> Christopher Aillon wrote: > Mike McGrath wrote: >> Please vote on this: >> >> options are: >> >> Both >> >> Just gnome > > Man, such political votes really should be done by private vote. > Would you like to set up a private vote then? ~m From david at lovesunix.net Mon Oct 29 14:09:50 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:09:50 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1193666990.4990.10.camel@dawkins> s?n, 28 10 2007 kl. 20:03 -0500, skrev Mike McGrath: > Please vote on this: > > options are: > > Both > > Just gnome > > You've got till wed. :) While I think this is some what like blackmail, you give us the options of being biggots or opening a slippery slope - I mean we have XFce users, enlightenment users, when they decide to get their own spin, do we make those official as well. In that case where does it end. GNOME only, I'm scared of the alternative as all official spins have to undergo QA testing and we are short on staff as it is. - David -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 14:10:50 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:10:50 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <1193666990.4990.10.camel@dawkins> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <1193666990.4990.10.camel@dawkins> Message-ID: <4725E9EA.205@redhat.com> David Nielsen wrote: > While I think this is some what like blackmail, you give us the options > of being biggots or opening a slippery slope - I mean we have XFce > users, enlightenment users, when they decide to get their own spin, do > we make those official as well. In that case where does it end. > > GNOME only, I'm scared of the alternative as all official spins have to > undergo QA testing and we are short on staff as it is. > That's actually up to the QA team, and AFAIK the kde spin is blessed already and distributed by the mirrors. This is a pure marketing decision. Do we want it on the get fedora page or not. -Mike From david at lovesunix.net Mon Oct 29 14:37:34 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:37:34 +0100 Subject: increasing the reach of fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <7a2761170710290408m16e002fh1bfc7f0531daef97@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071028193103.26794f59@bree.surriel.com> <1193620494.2683.4.camel@dawkins> <20071028213545.162d1473@bree.surriel.com> <1193623166.2683.10.camel@dawkins> <1193652061.3019.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7a2761170710290408m16e002fh1bfc7f0531daef97@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1193668654.2836.3.camel@dawkins> man, 29 10 2007 kl. 07:08 -0400, skrev Lisa Hoover: > Hi, > > This is a really interesting discussion and I see a lot of good ideas > here. I'm a technology journalist so perhaps I can shed some light on > what might work and what may not. > > In my opinion, the *number one* thing a group can do to get their > message out is to forge a one-on-one relationship with journalists. If > you see someone reporting on Fedora somewhere, don't hesitate to drop > them an email saying something like, "I saw your review of F8 and > thought you'd like to know we've just put up some new information here > about XYZ." Many journalists have official or unofficial "beats" based > on topics they follow closely, are enthused about, or just happen to > know a lot about and will leap on new information -- if they know > about it. > > Two-way communication is, of course, important. Simply throwing a link > at a journalist won't work as well as making sure there's someone > available to answer questions and offer quotes. Red Hat and Fedora are > terrific about this, by the way, and it's fairly easy to connect with > someone to get follow-up information. I only bring it up to suggest > that 20 people randomly emailing journalists may not bring results as > good as a coordinated effort that includes a go-to person for more > info. It looks like you're already working with Leigh on this. Great! > > Speaking of quotes: Yes, it's true that some outlets cut and paste > from press releases, however most do not. For some, it's against > editorial policy, for others it's a personal preference. Therefore, I > heartily disagree with the notion that by making it "easier for the > cut'n'paste journalists to publish information on Fedora, we will > greatly increase the amount of publicity Fedora gets." The "easiest" > way to increase publicity is to make the story accessible to the > journalist. We need to know, at a minimum, what's happening, why it's > important, and where to get additional information to put it into > context. Hand that information to a journalist along with contact info > for someone willing to quickly answer a couple of follow-up questions > and your chances of getting publicity skyrocket. > > Of *course* I understand that that's a tall order. I know it's not > realistic to expect availability like that from a group of volunteers, > no matter how dedicated they are (and, again, I think Fedora does an > *excellent job already of being available to answer reporters' > questions). My point is that, yes, being first on the Internet with > news is important but many news Web sites nowadays simply aggregate or > compile "breaking news" feeds on a section of their front page so as > not to bother with the whole "cut and paste so we can be among the > first only to find out everyone else has the *exact same story" issue. > The bottom line? Journalists faced with writing a story that F8 has > been released will be asking themselves, "What can I say that hasn't > already been said?" Believe me when I tell you, we are open to ideas. > > Nicu's suggestion to contact the media with backstory information like > Iced Tea is a great one. For example, I read (here or on another > Fedora list) recently that some were disappointed that reviewers > didn't talk more about spins and suggested it might be a lack of > training or information. This is exactly the kind of information I'd > like to have as a tech journalist: an under-reported "feature" of F8 > that brings something new to the table and that readers need to be > schooled in to know how to use. > > Anyway, I never meant for this to be quite so long. I think this team > is doing a great job. You're all very dedicated and I wish you the > best of luck in getting the word out about Fedora. If you've got any > questions, just give me a shout. So it seems like we need a person who knows masters journalism and knows how the industry works to lead us in our glorious quest.. it sounds we need you, so take this as unofficial, unfair and uncalled for peer pressure to volunteer your talents. :) - David -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 29 14:48:59 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:48:59 +0200 Subject: Joke Fedora certificate of authenticity (based on the joke Ubuntu one) In-Reply-To: <4725ACF1.2090505@nicubunu.ro> References: <200710272016.13459.ben.lewis@benl.co.uk> <4725ACF1.2090505@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <4725F2DB.4000909@nicubunu.ro> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Here is mine: > http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork/stickers/fedora-authenticity-certificate.png > > with source: > http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork/stickers/fedora-authenticity-certificate.svg I blogged about this and received something as I consider a very insightful comment from a reader: "Do you want us to buy color printers and to fight with labels and self-sticking paper? Aargh... nobody offers custom labels at an affordable price, they way you can get Linux CDs from various places..." -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From paulds at bu.edu Mon Oct 29 15:40:48 2007 From: paulds at bu.edu (Paul Stauffer) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:40:48 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <4725E9EA.205@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <1193666990.4990.10.camel@dawkins> <4725E9EA.205@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20071029154048.GF23553@jadzia.bu.edu> On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 at 09:10:50AM -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > That's actually up to the QA team, and AFAIK the kde spin is blessed > already and distributed by the mirrors. This is a pure marketing > decision. Do we want it on the get fedora page or not. And this is a matter for discussion, not for a simple vote. With this clarification from Mike, let's set aside our personal preferences with regards to Gnome vs KDE for a minute and focus on the marketing message here: What is the effect on the overall Fedora marketing effort of prominently featuring the KDE spin vs not doing so? My gut reaction is that it might help promote Fedora within the KDE community, which would be a positive thing. Are there any downsides to doing this from a marketing perspective that we ought to consider? - Paul -- Paul Stauffer Manager of Research Computing Computer Science Department Boston University From duffy at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 15:42:59 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:42:59 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <20071029154048.GF23553@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <1193666990.4990.10.camel@dawkins> <4725E9EA.205@redhat.com> <20071029154048.GF23553@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <4725FF83.3060907@redhat.com> Paul Stauffer wrote: > On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 at 09:10:50AM -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: >> That's actually up to the QA team, and AFAIK the kde spin is blessed >> already and distributed by the mirrors. This is a pure marketing >> decision. Do we want it on the get fedora page or not. > > And this is a matter for discussion, not for a simple vote. > > With this clarification from Mike, let's set aside our personal preferences > with regards to Gnome vs KDE for a minute and focus on the marketing message > here: What is the effect on the overall Fedora marketing effort of > prominently featuring the KDE spin vs not doing so? > > My gut reaction is that it might help promote Fedora within the KDE > community, which would be a positive thing. > > Are there any downsides to doing this from a marketing perspective that we > ought to consider? There's an awful lot of choices on that screen. Adding another one will not help towards NOT overwhelming newcomers. If someone knows well enough that they want KDE over GNOME they are probably quite able to dig one screen down to get to KDE. Just something to consider. (how about just GNOME on this screen but next to the spins link, have something like (including the KDE spin!) next to it?) ~m From david at lovesunix.net Mon Oct 29 16:27:58 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:27:58 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <4725E9EA.205@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <1193666990.4990.10.camel@dawkins> <4725E9EA.205@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1193675278.2836.41.camel@dawkins> man, 29 10 2007 kl. 09:10 -0500, skrev Mike McGrath: > David Nielsen wrote: > > While I think this is some what like blackmail, you give us the options > > of being biggots or opening a slippery slope - I mean we have XFce > > users, enlightenment users, when they decide to get their own spin, do > > we make those official as well. In that case where does it end. > > > > GNOME only, I'm scared of the alternative as all official spins have to > > undergo QA testing and we are short on staff as it is. > > > > That's actually up to the QA team, and AFAIK the kde spin is blessed > already and distributed by the mirrors. This is a pure marketing > decision. Do we want it on the get fedora page or not. So if we market both and the QA flatly just don't have time and manpower to vet both, say the KDE spin has a horrible lot of problems does that not reflect badly on all of Fedora. In effect the choice is vetting everything (which we should do, sadly manpower, endless variantion and so on makes this practically impossible especially as the number of spins keep mounting) or blessing one spin then ensuring that at least rocks hard. Personally I feel pretty damn confident about the state of the GNOME spin, I've beaten it mercilessly for weeks without seeing major issues. I know we have a lot of KDE users and that Rex and the guys have done amazing work which certainly does deserve to be shown off - but I feel we are pushing a decision based on the issue of fairness and ignoring that the negative effect it might have on Fedora as a whole. The first calls for XFce as a choice has been leveled in previews.. I'm scared. I think one spin, GNOME, is easier to market and easier to assure that we live up to the traditional high Fedora quality on. At least for now, if the decision is made early in the F9 cycle that we have as a goal to officially market the GNOME and KDE spins, then it would be easier to prepare from a QA stance. Days before the official release that still leaves an awful lot of testing to do and I'd feel bad about not seeing the KDE spin undergo the same degree of testing from day one yet flaunting it. I'd just feel bad if we ship a KDE spin that isn't all it can be and market it heavily - it could backfire terribly on us all. I'm confident Rex and the boys have done a good job, but still bring it up last minute seems kinda unwise from a QA stance, wearing those retrospective vision glasses I guess we should have seen it coming though. Regardless the majority seems in favor of fairness, something to which I must bow but I do encourage people to join the QA team to get really killer coverage for F9 for all the spins. I'd love to see it be a demand to be an officially spin that a member of assigned to do QA for the special subset on that spin but that's something for a later debate I suspect. More from the perspective that we are bound to get more spins wanting this official blessing - spins are both our best weapons and a terrible enemy. - David -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 16:46:05 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:46:05 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <1193675278.2836.41.camel@dawkins> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <1193666990.4990.10.camel@dawkins> <4725E9EA.205@redhat.com> <1193675278.2836.41.camel@dawkins> Message-ID: <47260E4D.4010604@redhat.com> David Nielsen wrote: > man, 29 10 2007 kl. 09:10 -0500, skrev Mike McGrath: > >> David Nielsen wrote: >> >>> While I think this is some what like blackmail, you give us the options >>> of being biggots or opening a slippery slope - I mean we have XFce >>> users, enlightenment users, when they decide to get their own spin, do >>> we make those official as well. In that case where does it end. >>> >>> GNOME only, I'm scared of the alternative as all official spins have to >>> undergo QA testing and we are short on staff as it is. >>> >>> >> That's actually up to the QA team, and AFAIK the kde spin is blessed >> already and distributed by the mirrors. This is a pure marketing >> decision. Do we want it on the get fedora page or not. >> > > So if we market both and the QA flatly just don't have time and manpower > to vet both, say the KDE spin has a horrible lot of problems does that > not reflect badly on all of Fedora. In effect the choice is vetting > everything (which we should do, sadly manpower, endless variantion and > so on makes this practically impossible especially as the number of > spins keep mounting) or blessing one spin then ensuring that at least > rocks hard. Personally I feel pretty damn confident about the state of > the GNOME spin, I've beaten it mercilessly for weeks without seeing > major issues. > This is not marketing's concern / burden to worry about. If they ship KDE to the mirrors, its a vetted official release and not a 'custom respin'. -Mike From mmcgrath at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 16:52:56 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:52:56 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <4725FF83.3060907@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <1193666990.4990.10.camel@dawkins> <4725E9EA.205@redhat.com> <20071029154048.GF23553@jadzia.bu.edu> <4725FF83.3060907@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47260FE8.1040409@redhat.com> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Paul Stauffer wrote: >> Are there any downsides to doing this from a marketing perspective >> that we >> ought to consider? > > There's an awful lot of choices on that screen. Adding another one > will not help towards NOT overwhelming newcomers. If someone knows > well enough that they want KDE over GNOME they are probably quite able > to dig one screen down to get to KDE. Just something to consider. > Agreed, simplicity is the main reason I've been giving pushback on the websites list to the KDE spin listing. I'm a KDE user but for the "get Fedora" page and the Fedora landing page I really do think less is more. The current link count is 32 for that page, I'd love to make that less which is why my other mockup just had (i386 x86_64 ppc). wget -qO- http://mmcgrath.fedorapeople.org/2/get-fedora | grep -c href We could get rid of multiple listings of Mirror List and "I don't know" which would bring that count down to 27. > (how about just GNOME on this screen but next to the spins link, have > something like (including the KDE spin!) next to it?) I'd kind of hesitate in favoring spins at this point. Especially since I think releng is not considering KDE a respin but an official one.... Having said that I believe they're still in the deciding process though a KDE live CD did ship with F8 test 3. -Mike From david at lovesunix.net Mon Oct 29 17:37:06 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:37:06 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47260E4D.4010604@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <1193666990.4990.10.camel@dawkins> <4725E9EA.205@redhat.com> <1193675278.2836.41.camel@dawkins> <47260E4D.4010604@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1193679426.2836.56.camel@dawkins> man, 29 10 2007 kl. 11:46 -0500, skrev Mike McGrath: > David Nielsen wrote: > > man, 29 10 2007 kl. 09:10 -0500, skrev Mike McGrath: > > > >> David Nielsen wrote: > >> > >>> While I think this is some what like blackmail, you give us the options > >>> of being biggots or opening a slippery slope - I mean we have XFce > >>> users, enlightenment users, when they decide to get their own spin, do > >>> we make those official as well. In that case where does it end. > >>> > >>> GNOME only, I'm scared of the alternative as all official spins have to > >>> undergo QA testing and we are short on staff as it is. > >>> > >>> > >> That's actually up to the QA team, and AFAIK the kde spin is blessed > >> already and distributed by the mirrors. This is a pure marketing > >> decision. Do we want it on the get fedora page or not. > >> > > > > So if we market both and the QA flatly just don't have time and manpower > > to vet both, say the KDE spin has a horrible lot of problems does that > > not reflect badly on all of Fedora. In effect the choice is vetting > > everything (which we should do, sadly manpower, endless variantion and > > so on makes this practically impossible especially as the number of > > spins keep mounting) or blessing one spin then ensuring that at least > > rocks hard. Personally I feel pretty damn confident about the state of > > the GNOME spin, I've beaten it mercilessly for weeks without seeing > > major issues. > > > > This is not marketing's concern / burden to worry about. If they ship > KDE to the mirrors, its a vetted official release and not a 'custom > respin'. You saying so does not a stable release make, if I am misinformed on said point, could you start saying so more often as it would greatly ease my work. A release does not become vetted because we bless it, a release becomes vetted by testing. Seperate but related concerns, I'm saying it's unwise to bless a release without having assurance that it's properly vetted first. Saying we could just dismiss QA is not serving the KDE spin or the image of Fedora as a whole. - David -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 17:31:15 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:31:15 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <1193679426.2836.56.camel@dawkins> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <1193666990.4990.10.camel@dawkins> <4725E9EA.205@redhat.com> <1193675278.2836.41.camel@dawkins> <47260E4D.4010604@redhat.com> <1193679426.2836.56.camel@dawkins> Message-ID: <472618E3.9080901@redhat.com> David Nielsen wrote: > man, 29 10 2007 kl. 11:46 -0500, skrev Mike McGrath: > >> David Nielsen wrote: >> >>> man, 29 10 2007 kl. 09:10 -0500, skrev Mike McGrath: >>> >>> >>>> David Nielsen wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> While I think this is some what like blackmail, you give us the options >>>>> of being biggots or opening a slippery slope - I mean we have XFce >>>>> users, enlightenment users, when they decide to get their own spin, do >>>>> we make those official as well. In that case where does it end. >>>>> >>>>> GNOME only, I'm scared of the alternative as all official spins have to >>>>> undergo QA testing and we are short on staff as it is. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> That's actually up to the QA team, and AFAIK the kde spin is blessed >>>> already and distributed by the mirrors. This is a pure marketing >>>> decision. Do we want it on the get fedora page or not. >>>> >>>> >>> So if we market both and the QA flatly just don't have time and manpower >>> to vet both, say the KDE spin has a horrible lot of problems does that >>> not reflect badly on all of Fedora. In effect the choice is vetting >>> everything (which we should do, sadly manpower, endless variantion and >>> so on makes this practically impossible especially as the number of >>> spins keep mounting) or blessing one spin then ensuring that at least >>> rocks hard. Personally I feel pretty damn confident about the state of >>> the GNOME spin, I've beaten it mercilessly for weeks without seeing >>> major issues. >>> >>> >> This is not marketing's concern / burden to worry about. If they ship >> KDE to the mirrors, its a vetted official release and not a 'custom >> respin'. >> > > You saying so does not a stable release make, if I am misinformed on > said point, could you start saying so more often as it would greatly > ease my work. A release does not become vetted because we bless it, a > release becomes vetted by testing. > > Seperate but related concerns, I'm saying it's unwise to bless a release > without having assurance that it's properly vetted first. Saying we > could just dismiss QA is not serving the KDE spin or the image of Fedora > as a whole. > What I'm saying is the QA and releng teams do the testing / vetting. They decide what the official releases are to be and as of right now they have decided that the KDE spin is also an official release. As a marketing team it's our job to determine how best to get that information known and to the users without confusing them because, and lets be honest, if we put every possible Fedora available directly on the get-fedora page with explanations of each, it would be incredibly confusing to users. -Mike From david at lovesunix.net Mon Oct 29 18:01:21 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:01:21 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <472618E3.9080901@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <1193666990.4990.10.camel@dawkins> <4725E9EA.205@redhat.com> <1193675278.2836.41.camel@dawkins> <47260E4D.4010604@redhat.com> <1193679426.2836.56.camel@dawkins> <472618E3.9080901@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1193680882.2836.72.camel@dawkins> man, 29 10 2007 kl. 12:31 -0500, skrev Mike McGrath: > David Nielsen wrote: > > man, 29 10 2007 kl. 11:46 -0500, skrev Mike McGrath: > > > >> David Nielsen wrote: > >> > >>> man, 29 10 2007 kl. 09:10 -0500, skrev Mike McGrath: > >>> > >>> > >>>> David Nielsen wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> While I think this is some what like blackmail, you give us the options > >>>>> of being biggots or opening a slippery slope - I mean we have XFce > >>>>> users, enlightenment users, when they decide to get their own spin, do > >>>>> we make those official as well. In that case where does it end. > >>>>> > >>>>> GNOME only, I'm scared of the alternative as all official spins have to > >>>>> undergo QA testing and we are short on staff as it is. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> That's actually up to the QA team, and AFAIK the kde spin is blessed > >>>> already and distributed by the mirrors. This is a pure marketing > >>>> decision. Do we want it on the get fedora page or not. > >>>> > >>>> > >>> So if we market both and the QA flatly just don't have time and manpower > >>> to vet both, say the KDE spin has a horrible lot of problems does that > >>> not reflect badly on all of Fedora. In effect the choice is vetting > >>> everything (which we should do, sadly manpower, endless variantion and > >>> so on makes this practically impossible especially as the number of > >>> spins keep mounting) or blessing one spin then ensuring that at least > >>> rocks hard. Personally I feel pretty damn confident about the state of > >>> the GNOME spin, I've beaten it mercilessly for weeks without seeing > >>> major issues. > >>> > >>> > >> This is not marketing's concern / burden to worry about. If they ship > >> KDE to the mirrors, its a vetted official release and not a 'custom > >> respin'. > >> > > > > You saying so does not a stable release make, if I am misinformed on > > said point, could you start saying so more often as it would greatly > > ease my work. A release does not become vetted because we bless it, a > > release becomes vetted by testing. > > > > Seperate but related concerns, I'm saying it's unwise to bless a release > > without having assurance that it's properly vetted first. Saying we > > could just dismiss QA is not serving the KDE spin or the image of Fedora > > as a whole. > > > > What I'm saying is the QA and releng teams do the testing / vetting. > They decide what the official releases are to be and as of right now > they have decided that the KDE spin is also an official release. As a > marketing team it's our job to determine how best to get that > information known and to the users without confusing them because, and > lets be honest, if we put every possible Fedora available directly on > the get-fedora page with explanations of each, it would be incredibly > confusing to users. Here's the grim realistic goals of QA. Install, Boot, have working network and working yum on all machines, that's basically enough to make a release fixable post release. Even that is hard to get (remember F7 that didn't boot on certain Dell machines because of a last minute update), that does not mean Fedora is unstable it just means we have few people and a lot of work, not to mention not access to all possible combinations of hardware. That does not mean the spin is sufficently vetted to risk the reputation of Fedora. Anything beyond those 4 things is a bonus, a bonus we normally are able to more than deliver on in most cases. As for the confusion argument, I totally agree - only I'm of the opinion that 1 is less confusing that 2 options. Regardless I already did bow to the majority. Realistically it's political suicide to bless only one of the major desktop spins anyways. - David -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From michael.d.beckwith at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 18:35:42 2007 From: michael.d.beckwith at gmail.com (Michael Beckwith) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:35:42 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47259C3A.2050204@nicubunu.ro> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <47259C3A.2050204@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <472627FE.104@gmail.com> Pssh :P I'm a gnome user and I voted both. I understand the need for KDE Nicu Buculei wrote: > Mike McGrath wrote: >> Please vote on this: >> >> options are: >> >> Both >> >> Just gnome >> >> You've got till wed. :) > > Well, this is a bad thing to vote on: > - KDE supporters will naturally vote "both"; > - GNOME supporters will not vote at all, as they don't want to be > labeled selfish bastards. > > I don't vote :p > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Subject: >> Re: Get Fedora >> From: >> Rahul Sundaram >> Date: >> Mon, 29 Oct 2007 06:40:46 +0530 >> To: >> Mike McGrath >> >> To: >> Mike McGrath >> CC: >> "For maintainers and developers of all formal Fedora websites." >> >> >> >> Mike McGrath wrote: >>> I'd actually argue thats a marketing decision (whether or not KDE is >>> linked on the get fedora page or not) >> >> Yes it is. So if I had to make the marketing decision, I would agree >> that GNOME and KDE should be both highlighted there. Also if only >> official spins can be mirrored, they both must be considered official >> spins. > > -- ~Michael http://ridleytx.structed.net (for now) http://michaelbox.net (eventually) From anandcomputerphreak at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 21:08:16 2007 From: anandcomputerphreak at gmail.com (Anand Capur) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:08:16 -0400 Subject: Joke Fedora certificate of authenticity (based on the joke Ubuntu one) In-Reply-To: <4725F2DB.4000909@nicubunu.ro> References: <200710272016.13459.ben.lewis@benl.co.uk> <4725ACF1.2090505@nicubunu.ro> <4725F2DB.4000909@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: On 10/29/07, Nicu Buculei wrote: > > Nicu Buculei wrote: > > Here is mine: > > > http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork/stickers/fedora-authenticity-certificate.png > > > > with source: > > > http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork/stickers/fedora-authenticity-certificate.svg > > I blogged about this and received something as I consider a very > insightful comment from a reader: > "Do you want us to buy color printers and to fight with labels and > self-sticking paper? Aargh... nobody offers custom labels at an > affordable price, they way you can get Linux CDs from various places..." > > -- > nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com > Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > I can get *Shape :* Rectangle *Size :* 4.0 x 1.75 (4" x 1 3/4") *Corners :* Rounded (0.125" corner radius) *Material :* WHITE BOPP (Removable) *Laminate :* High Gloss *Number of Versions :* 1 *Quantity #1* *( 1000 )* *-* *Total Price : $349.05 ($0.349 each)* Quantity #2 ( 2000 ) - Total Price : $428.91 ($0.214 each) Quantity #3 ( 3000 ) - Total Price : $508.77 ($0.170 each) Quantity #4 ( 4000 ) - Total Price : $587.45 ($0.147 each) Quantity #5 ( 5000 ) - Total Price : $666.14 ($0.133 each) -Anand -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From caillon at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 23:11:16 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 00:11:16 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <4725E7A9.8090102@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <4725C425.7010503@redhat.com> <4725E7A9.8090102@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47266894.3090609@redhat.com> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Christopher Aillon wrote: >> Man, such political votes really should be done by private vote. >> > > Would you like to set up a private vote then? Fedora has the infrastructure already (the same we use for votes for FESCo, Board, release names, etc.). If someone gives me the power to set one up, I'd do it. From mmcgrath at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 23:13:44 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:13:44 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47266894.3090609@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <4725C425.7010503@redhat.com> <4725E7A9.8090102@redhat.com> <47266894.3090609@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47266928.1040008@redhat.com> Christopher Aillon wrote: > M?ir?n Duffy wrote: >> Christopher Aillon wrote: >>> Man, such political votes really should be done by private vote. >>> >> >> Would you like to set up a private vote then? > > Fedora has the infrastructure already (the same we use for votes for > FESCo, Board, release names, etc.). If someone gives me the power to > set one up, I'd do it. > Boo for private votes, cheers for completely open votes. -Mike From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 29 23:25:23 2007 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:25:23 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47266894.3090609@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <4725C425.7010503@redhat.com> <4725E7A9.8090102@redhat.com> <47266894.3090609@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1193700323.18929.2.camel@kennedy> On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 00:11 +0100, Christopher Aillon wrote: > M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > > > Would you like to set up a private vote then? > > Fedora has the infrastructure already (the same we use for votes for > FESCo, Board, release names, etc.). If someone gives me the power to > set one up, I'd do it. Toshio (abadger1999) wrote the voting app, and he should be able to help you set this up. Later, /B -- Brian Pepple http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BrianPepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Oct 30 00:12:24 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 09:12:24 +0900 Subject: Fedora 8 Werewolf Screenshots Message-ID: <472676E8.2030701@mwiriadi.id.au> http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/21448 The release of Fedora 8 (codenamed Werewolf) is due out for release in less than two weeks and comes with a host of new features. Fedora 8 will offer a Codec Buddy for installing audio/video codecs, an open-source Java stack now based upon IcedTea, improved laptop support, the Pulse Audio sound server, remove virtualization support, and much more. From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Oct 30 00:17:03 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 09:17:03 +0900 Subject: Fedora 8 Werewolf Screenshots In-Reply-To: <472676E8.2030701@mwiriadi.id.au> References: <472676E8.2030701@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <472677FF.1050509@mwiriadi.id.au> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/21448 > > The release of Fedora 8 (codenamed Werewolf) is due out for release in > less than two weeks and comes with a host of new features. Fedora 8 > will offer a Codec Buddy for installing audio/video codecs, an > open-source Java stack now based upon IcedTea, improved laptop > support, the Pulse Audio sound server, remove virtualization support, > and much more. > I should have clicked on the link it links directly to this article. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=895&num=1 which I think has been sent before. Cheers, Marc From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 30 00:14:10 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 05:44:10 +0530 Subject: Fedora 8 Werewolf Screenshots In-Reply-To: <472676E8.2030701@mwiriadi.id.au> References: <472676E8.2030701@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <47267752.9060805@fedoraproject.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/21448 > > The release of Fedora 8 (codenamed Werewolf) is due out for release in > less than two weeks and comes with a host of new features. Fedora 8 will > offer a Codec Buddy for installing audio/video codecs, an open-source > Java stack now based upon IcedTea, improved laptop support, the Pulse > Audio sound server, remove virtualization support, and much more. Typo there. "Remote" virtualization support. Has been fixed in the original source (Phoronix). Just wanted to avoid confusion from anyone. Rahul From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Oct 30 00:21:31 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 09:21:31 +0900 Subject: Fedora 8 Werewolf Screenshots In-Reply-To: <472676E8.2030701@mwiriadi.id.au> References: <472676E8.2030701@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <4726790B.5090303@mwiriadi.id.au> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/21448 > > The release of Fedora 8 (codenamed Werewolf) is due out for release in > less than two weeks and comes with a host of new features. Fedora 8 > will offer a Codec Buddy for installing audio/video codecs, an > open-source Java stack now based upon IcedTea, improved laptop > support, the Pulse Audio sound server, remove virtualization support, > and much more. > One more thing. I have just created a digg. http://digg.com/linux_unix/Fedora_8_Werewolf_Screenshots_2 Linking to the Phoronix article directly since clicking on multiple links is not my idea of fun. Let's digg it!!! Cheers, Marc From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 30 00:27:21 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 05:57:21 +0530 Subject: New Display Tool Coming In Fedora 9 Message-ID: <47267A69.4020000@fedoraproject.org> Hi I am not sure how concrete these details are. Interesting however. http://digg.com/linux_unix/New_Display_Tool_Coming_In_Fedora_9 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjE1NQ " There's less than two weeks now until the release of Fedora 8, which has been codenamed Werewolf. However, it's not too early to start thinking about Fedora 9. One of the items that has already been brought up for this next release cycle is a new display utility. While there is the rather basic system-config-display utility from Red Hat, Fedora is currently lacking a graphical tool to change or enable display devices (such as LCDs or TVs) in real-time. " Rahul From caillon at redhat.com Tue Oct 30 10:30:02 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:30:02 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <47266928.1040008@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <4725C425.7010503@redhat.com> <4725E7A9.8090102@redhat.com> <47266894.3090609@redhat.com> <47266928.1040008@redhat.com> Message-ID: <472707AA.2050101@redhat.com> Mike McGrath wrote: > Boo for private votes, cheers for completely open votes. Boo tenfold more for politically loaded votes. You don't walk into a room full of both GOP and Dems and ask one party to speak out against the other -- you'll get some people to do so, but many will be hesitant as it would negatively harm relations down the line. As someone else pointed out in the thread, KDE supporters will vote yes, GNOME supporters will likely not want to essentially say "$&@! KDE" and simply not vote, so you might as well put KDE up there without even asking for a vote. What we really should be doing is defining what criteria must be met by a spin to get it linked from the main page, and use that to determine what spins should be placed there. (Aside: I dislike that this is a political issue to begin with, but it is). From paulds at bu.edu Tue Oct 30 14:18:32 2007 From: paulds at bu.edu (Paul Stauffer) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:18:32 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <472707AA.2050101@redhat.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <4725C425.7010503@redhat.com> <4725E7A9.8090102@redhat.com> <47266894.3090609@redhat.com> <47266928.1040008@redhat.com> <472707AA.2050101@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20071030141832.GA12984@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 11:30:02AM +0100, Christopher Aillon wrote: > Boo tenfold more for politically loaded votes. You don't walk into a Also, majority rule isn't necessarily the appropriate method of decision making in every situation. People should state reasons for or against the proposal so we can consider the matter rationally and come to some sort of consensus. Also, as previously hinted by Mo, this does not necessarily have to be a strictly binary yes/no decision of whether or not to feature KDE; Maybe there isn't a direct link to the KDE spin on this page, but it is specifically mentioned with the link to the other spins, etc. I'm just sayin'. - Paul -- Paul Stauffer Manager of Research Computing Computer Science Department Boston University From Bart.De.Soete at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 30 15:15:56 2007 From: Bart.De.Soete at fedoraproject.org (Bart De Soete) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:15:56 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <20071030141832.GA12984@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <4725C425.7010503@redhat.com> <4725E7A9.8090102@redhat.com> <47266894.3090609@redhat.com> <47266928.1040008@redhat.com> <472707AA.2050101@redhat.com> <20071030141832.GA12984@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <644c0c0b0710300815j7bb31924kf98c10af001c0b75@mail.gmail.com> Also both! -- Bart De Soete, Fedora Ambassador ? Belgium From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Tue Oct 30 21:10:25 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:10:25 +0000 Subject: Release Summary Status In-Reply-To: <472676E8.2030701@mwiriadi.id.au> References: <472676E8.2030701@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1193778625.2558.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi all, Wondered what the status of the Release Summary was? Also, I've added some screenshots to it this evening, but wondered what was happening about the text to accompany it? Is what's in for the "completed" bits final or is that just a guide to be developed further...!? It's starting to take shape though which is cool :D 10 days! Best wishes, Jon From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 30 21:15:16 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 02:45:16 +0530 Subject: Release Summary Status In-Reply-To: <1193778625.2558.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <472676E8.2030701@mwiriadi.id.au> <1193778625.2558.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <47279EE4.6070902@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hi all, > > Wondered what the status of the Release Summary was? > > Also, I've added some screenshots to it this evening, but wondered what > was happening about the text to accompany it? Is what's in for the > "completed" bits final or is that just a guide to be developed > further...!? > > It's starting to take shape though which is cool :D 10 days! They are just quick notes to expand on. Rahul From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Oct 30 22:49:30 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:49:30 +0900 Subject: Website selling linux computers Message-ID: <4727B4FA.5040208@mwiriadi.id.au> We had a list a long time ago on companies that sell linux computers/laptops on the wiki. I have just found this website and it looks quite cheap compared to where I live. http://www.fc64.org/ Can we update the list on the wiki? Cheers, Marc From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 30 23:18:09 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 04:48:09 +0530 Subject: Website selling linux computers In-Reply-To: <4727B4FA.5040208@mwiriadi.id.au> References: <4727B4FA.5040208@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <4727BBB1.8010504@fedoraproject.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > We had a list a long time ago on companies that sell linux > computers/laptops on the wiki. I have just found this website and it > looks quite cheap compared to where I live. > > http://www.fc64.org/ > > Can we update the list on the wiki? Someone needs to confirm how authentic they are first I think. Rahul From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Oct 30 23:25:51 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:25:51 +0900 Subject: Website selling linux computers In-Reply-To: <4727BBB1.8010504@fedoraproject.org> References: <4727B4FA.5040208@mwiriadi.id.au> <4727BBB1.8010504@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1193786751.2768.0.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 04:48 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > We had a list a long time ago on companies that sell linux > > computers/laptops on the wiki. I have just found this website and it > > looks quite cheap compared to where I live. > > > > http://www.fc64.org/ > > > > Can we update the list on the wiki? > > Someone needs to confirm how authentic they are first I think. > > Rahul > How would we go about doing that? Cheers, Marc From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 30 23:31:50 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:01:50 +0530 Subject: PulseAudio by default in Fedora 8! Message-ID: <4727BEE6.60203@fedoraproject.org> Hi PulseAudio is really cool thing I haven't heard much of a buzz about. Check it out. http://digg.com/linux_unix/PulseAudio_by_default_in_Fedora_8 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/LennartPoettering "PulseAudio is a next-generation sound server for GNU/Linux, creating the possibility of enabling all sorts of "ear-candy": it's possible to dynamically control the volume of individual applications, and hot-plugging works great with it. Read on for more details, including what can be expected in the future." Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 30 23:46:36 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:16:36 +0530 Subject: Website selling linux computers In-Reply-To: <1193786751.2768.0.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <4727B4FA.5040208@mwiriadi.id.au> <4727BBB1.8010504@fedoraproject.org> <1193786751.2768.0.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <4727C25C.20005@fedoraproject.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 04:48 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >>> We had a list a long time ago on companies that sell linux >>> computers/laptops on the wiki. I have just found this website and it >>> looks quite cheap compared to where I live. >>> >>> http://www.fc64.org/ >>> >>> Can we update the list on the wiki? >> Someone needs to confirm how authentic they are first I think. >> >> Rahul >> > How would we go about doing that? Contact them for more details. Enquire if anyone has successfully done business with them. See if we can improve the OEM relationship. Rahul From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Oct 31 00:07:52 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:07:52 +0900 Subject: Website selling linux computers In-Reply-To: <4727C25C.20005@fedoraproject.org> References: <4727B4FA.5040208@mwiriadi.id.au> <4727BBB1.8010504@fedoraproject.org> <1193786751.2768.0.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> <4727C25C.20005@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1193789272.2984.0.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 05:16 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 04:48 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >>> We had a list a long time ago on companies that sell linux > >>> computers/laptops on the wiki. I have just found this website and it > >>> looks quite cheap compared to where I live. > >>> > >>> http://www.fc64.org/ > >>> > >>> Can we update the list on the wiki? > >> Someone needs to confirm how authentic they are first I think. > >> > >> Rahul > >> > > How would we go about doing that? > > Contact them for more details. Enquire if anyone has successfully done > business with them. See if we can improve the OEM relationship. > > Rahul > I have done that and I'll wait for their response. Cheers, Marc From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 31 11:33:47 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:03:47 +0530 Subject: Ars at FOSSCamp: integrating Internet services into the GNOME desktop Message-ID: <4728681B.6080902@fedoraproject.org> Hi A key piece of this which is Big Board is already in Fedora. Check it out. http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/10/30/ars-at-fosscamp-integrating-internet-services-into-the-gnome-desktop "A FOSSCamp session led by Red Hat developers presented the GNOME Online Desktop project, the nexus of GNOME's efforts to integrate support for modern web services into the open source desktop environment." Rahul From mohd.izhar.firdaus at gmail.com Wed Oct 31 14:26:16 2007 From: mohd.izhar.firdaus at gmail.com (Mohd Izhar Firdaus Ismail) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:26:16 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Get Fedora] In-Reply-To: <644c0c0b0710300815j7bb31924kf98c10af001c0b75@mail.gmail.com> References: <47253179.50604@redhat.com> <4725C425.7010503@redhat.com> <4725E7A9.8090102@redhat.com> <47266894.3090609@redhat.com> <47266928.1040008@redhat.com> <472707AA.2050101@redhat.com> <20071030141832.GA12984@jadzia.bu.edu> <644c0c0b0710300815j7bb31924kf98c10af001c0b75@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 10/30/07, Bart De Soete wrote: > Also both! Both too! For the web design, +1 to design #2 A question .. will the front page have a big fat Get Fedora button? .. the get fedora link at the side is not easily noticeable .. I seldom opened the fp.o frontpage .. and when I opened it a few days ago, I wondered where the download button .. and I blieve theres a lot of people out there that want to quickly get to the download page .. > > > -- > Bart De Soete, > > Fedora Ambassador ? Belgium > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Mohd Izhar Firdaus Bin Ismail Amano Hikaru ??? ???? ???? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MohdIzharFirdaus http://blog.kagesenshi.org 92C2 B295 B40B B3DC 6866 5011 5BD2 584A 8A5D 7331 From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 31 16:40:06 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:10:06 +0530 Subject: Ars at FOSSCamp: revolutionizing the command line with Hotwire Message-ID: <4728AFE6.3080301@fedoraproject.org> Hi I have been using it regularly for sometime now. Very powerful and extensible. http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/10/29/ars-at-fosscamp-revolutionizing-the-command-line-with-hotwire "Colin Walters of Red Hat chaired a FOSSCamp session about Hotwire, a unique and innovative graphical shell environment designed to improve the command-line user experience. I've been testing Hotwire releases for some time now, so the opportunity to see Walters present his invention in person seemed too good to pass up." Rahul