From tushar.neupaney at gmail.com Wed Oct 1 03:50:50 2008 From: tushar.neupaney at gmail.com (Tushar Neupaney) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 09:35:50 +0545 Subject: Recieved Fedora 9 CD's - Thankyou !! In-Reply-To: <8140ab7e0809300732h34aaa4afp65f6dc238e74ee15@mail.gmail.com> References: <8140ab7e0809300732h34aaa4afp65f6dc238e74ee15@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Great. Hope this will help you and your community. Let Open Source Live .... 2008/9/30 rajan vaish > Hi Tushar,I received the CD set today .Thanks for the same..Really > appreciate your help..Thanks ! > Rajan > 091 - 923 550 3181 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From azamrashdi at gmail.com Wed Oct 1 05:55:06 2008 From: azamrashdi at gmail.com (Syed Muhammad Azam Rashdi) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 10:55:06 +0500 Subject: Recieved Fedora 9 CD's - Thankyou !! In-Reply-To: References: <8140ab7e0809300732h34aaa4afp65f6dc238e74ee15@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <427be31f0809302255u766b2d44o3ec6585688b27731@mail.gmail.com> Well i also asked for Free Media but i think there is no in or to Pakistan who send free media......... Regards, S. M. Azam Rashdi Mechanical Engineer Pakistan Navy Engineering College (NUST) 2008/10/1 Tushar Neupaney > Great. Hope this will help you and your community. > > Let Open Source Live .... > > 2008/9/30 rajan vaish > >> Hi Tushar,I received the CD set today .Thanks for the same..Really >> appreciate your help..Thanks ! >> Rajan >> 091 - 923 550 3181 >> > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fugolini at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 1 08:55:33 2008 From: fugolini at fedoraproject.org (Francesco Ugolini) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 10:55:33 +0200 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 2008/10/1 Jeff Spaleta : > So what sort of things can we do? And when should we start doing them? > As a start is there a general need to raise the awareness of the > election and voting process we are using? > Can we generate general interest material covering topics like: > Why vote? How do you qualify for voting? What's this range voting stuff? Personally I'm sure we have to give a clear answer on "Why vote?" question. I'm saying it because we are a big community and we need to motivate people taking action. To do that I suggest to use widely read means, like announce list and so on. > Community Q/A: > It's sort of a two part problem. One we just need to get people out > there to ask questions. I think this comes down to communicating why > each election matters. Can we do that as a marketing campaign? Can we > "sell" the election process? > > And second, we need a way to organize those questions and resulting > candidate answers so they are easily found. I've been talking to > people specifically about how to organize some sort of community to > candidate q/a. Nigel seems to have taken the bait and has a plan on > how to integrate community questions AND nominations into the voting > app for all elections. The idea is great, but all the candidates have to accept this one. > Nominations: > This was talked about a lot in the post-Board election fab discussion, > and it was generally agreed that encouraging people to nominate others > would help increase the candidate pool, because some people are not > inclined to self-nominate. How do we go about encouraging people to > nominate other people? I don't know exactly beyond blogging about it > again. Yes, it could help having more people in the election. Personally I propose to give the time (a week?) to the people who want to invite other ones to join the electoral process, maybe we could do this trough our lists/blogs/etc. Then each person, after seeing people backing him, will take the responsibility to add himself in the Wiki with all the other candidates. I think it's the most logical process we could have. > IRC Debate: > Another idea floating around is organizing a candidate debate for each > election. I can't take credit for this idea. It should be doable. My > main concerning is how to generate the questions/topics for a debate > format. This loops to my personal focus on trying to find a way > generate questions from the community for candidates to answer. If > you've got an idea on how to run a candidate debate for any of the > elections, feel free to chime in. IRC Debates sounds great! Maybe, as you said, it would be usefull to find the right way to hold a IRC Debate. Personally I think the only thing to guarantee is that each candidate could have his/her time to explain himself, with a max limit. BTW, less rules, less problems :) > Meet the Candidate Videos: > If candidates wanted to make introductory videos can we organize a > space for candidates videos that makes it easier for people to find? I think if 100% of the candidates could make such video (potentially) it's a reasonable idea, but as today I'm not sure everyone could have a camera. We can take the decision to make something like EventBox: a camera that is shipped around the world, but it surely will take a lot of time. Finally: I agree to have a Q/A with people and candidate and an IRC debate (by project). I approve if we give a week to people to invite someone to nominate himself, and, if there is a way to give all the people that chance, to produce some candidate videos. Personally I'm sure we have to guarantee that everyone could have the same rights: to do this all the initiatives that will be taken for those elections will have to be designed to fit everyone. Best regards Francesco Ugolini p.s. I think we have to use, like the past election, a wiki page where all the candidates nominate themselves and give the reason why they are doing that. That's one of the best way to understand why a person will nominate him/herself. From inode0 at gmail.com Wed Oct 1 15:18:58 2008 From: inode0 at gmail.com (inode0) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 10:18:58 -0500 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > Okay campers, I'm here to try to jump start a discussion on what we > can do to encourage people to participate in the upcoming Fedora > election season. Thank you jef for trying to tackle this. > ... > > So what sort of things can we do? And when should we start doing them? > > As a start is there a general need to raise the awareness of the > election and voting process we are using? > Can we generate general interest material covering topics like: > Why vote? How do you qualify for voting? What's this range voting stuff? >From out in the field I hear several reasons people don't vote. One common reason is that they are new to the project and don't feel they know enough about who everyone is and what the various committees do to feel competent to participate. So one thing that I think would help new contributors get their bearings, and not just with respect to elections, is something like an organization chart that explains the structure of the Fedora project generally. What are all these committees? What purpose do they serve? What problems do the solve? Knowing that much will suggest a reason to care to many people I think. Being familiar with the structure of Fedora is something new ambassadors have been discussing to facilitate them in their efforts to help get new contributors aimed in an appropriate direction too, so I think some way to help all of us who don't live entirely inside the world of Fedora understand how the parts all fit together would be wonderful. > ... > > Community Q/A: > This is the one thing I've been thinking about a lot myself. I think > we can try to encourage people to ask questions they want the > candidates to answer as a way to frame the election and give all the > candidates a better idea of what the voting community cares about. I like this idea. The key to it being effective is for those who are asking questions to understand the role of the positions the candidates are running for so they can ask relevant questions. While I may be mostly out of the loop, I'm not totally out of the loop, and I'm often told my questions aren't relevant to the Fedora Board when I ask them. This may largely be correct as well, one problem I have is that I don't always know where a question should be directed and since the Fedora Board has an open forum it tends to get them by default. > It's sort of a two part problem. One we just need to get people out > there to ask questions. I think this comes down to communicating why > each election matters. Can we do that as a marketing campaign? Can we > "sell" the election process? I couldn't agree more. We need to understand why the elections matter. I also hear in the field that people don't vote because it doesn't matter or at least their participation in them doesn't matter. There is often a perception that when 12 people are running for 9 seats and everyone seems capable of filling those seats why should I spend time thinking about ranking them? > ... > > Nominations: > This was talked about a lot in the post-Board election fab discussion, > and it was generally agreed that encouraging people to nominate others > would help increase the candidate pool, because some people are not > inclined to self-nominate. How do we go about encouraging people to > nominate other people? I don't know exactly beyond blogging about it > again. People nominating others is one good way to get them involved. It has the same preconditions for participating I think. They must know what the role of the position is in order to make a sensible nomination. > ... > > IRC Debate: > Another idea floating around is organizing a candidate debate for each > election. I can't take credit for this idea. It should be doable. My > main concerning is how to generate the questions/topics for a debate > format. This loops to my personal focus on trying to find a way > generate questions from the community for candidates to answer. If > you've got an idea on how to run a candidate debate for any of the > elections, feel free to chime in. Whether a debate or an open forum where we can just get to know the thinking of the candidates would be nice. I'm not sure a debate format is well suited to most of these elections as they aren't driven so much by particular issues as they are by something more akin to character issues. Maybe I would change my mind on this given a better understanding of the roles of the positions myself. Taking the Fedora Board as an example, what would such a debate be about? If we are better guided by personal qualities, like this candidate has a nice disposition and can effectively deal with conflict resolution I don't see much to debate. But an open forum where we can see the dispositions of the candidates would still be useful. > Meet the Candidate Videos: > If candidates wanted to make introductory videos can we organize a > space for candidates videos that makes it easier for people to find? Anything that allows contributors to get to know the people running is a good thing. It is just impossible to vote for or against a name on a piece of paper who you don't really know anything about beyond that name. John From bochecha at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 1 15:52:01 2008 From: bochecha at fedoraproject.org (Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 17:52:01 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50819.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222876321.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> >> As a start is there a general need to raise the awareness of the >> election and voting process we are using? >> Can we generate general interest material covering topics like: >> Why vote? How do you qualify for voting? What's this range voting stuff? > >>From out in the field I hear several reasons people don't vote. One > common reason is that they are new to the project and don't feel they > know enough about who everyone is and what the various committees do > to feel competent to participate. That's exactly the reason why I didn't vote for the first election I was allowed to : the latest Fedora Board election. > So one thing that I think would help new contributors get their > bearings, and not just with respect to elections, is something like an > organization chart that explains the structure of the Fedora project > generally. What are all these committees? What purpose do they serve? > What problems do the solve? Knowing that much will suggest a reason to > care to many people I think. That would not really have helped me (and people in my case). My issue was that I knew absolutely nothing about the candidates. How could I vote for one or another ? The answer came from Yaakov Neemoy after some beers: if I don't know who to vote for, I should just give the same score to everyone. That will have the exact same result, except it will show that I care enough about Fedora to actually take the time to do it. This possibility, as evident as it might seem, was totally unclear to me, and I don't think I'm the only one. It might be worth adding that in the voting page I guess. Regards, ---------- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) French Fedora Ambassador ---------- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Oct 1 16:21:15 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 08:21:15 -0800 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: <50819.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222876321.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> <50819.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222876321.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> Message-ID: <604aa7910810010921t55316431l8bd2465036bd89ad@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 7:52 AM, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) > That would not really have helped me (and people in my case). My issue was > that I knew absolutely nothing about the candidates. How could I vote for > one or another ? If given an opportunity and encouraged to ask questions of all the candidates.. would you take it? Would you write a question? Would you read the answer to other people's questions? -jef From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 1 16:58:06 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 17:58:06 +0100 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <507738ef0810010958j3d947099u4ef931ce6383d22f@mail.gmail.com> > So what sort of things can we do? And when should we start doing them? 1) Everything you've suggested below, 2) we should start asap, some things are going to be more long range and some more targeted to the time frame around the elections. > > As a start is there a general need to raise the awareness of the > election and voting process we are using? > Can we generate general interest material covering topics like: > Why vote? How do you qualify for voting? What's this range voting stuff? Yes. I'd suggest this is something we should tackle *now*. I'll even volunteer to write something tomorrow and bring it to the mktg meeting tomorrow for feedback. > > And where do we want to put material in an effort to increase awareness? Heh, my suggestion for this would be news.fp.o if it existed! The only reason I mention it now is that I think it ties in a little with the recent discussions about the opening of RHM - this is one set of material that would definitely belong on a Fedora specific site. In fact, election promotion in general would be perfect material for news.fp.o In lieu of that, however, I'd suggest we ask websites for a static page for this content. It's stuff that will be perennially useful, so we might as well make it look presentable and easily accessible. > > Community Q/A: > This is the one thing I've been thinking about a lot myself. I think > we can try to encourage people to ask questions they want the > candidates to answer as a way to frame the election and give all the > candidates a better idea of what the voting community cares about. > > It's sort of a two part problem. One we just need to get people out > there to ask questions. I think this comes down to communicating why > each election matters. Can we do that as a marketing campaign? Can we > "sell" the election process? This is something that I think would be perfect to start preparing about a month before the election. If we advertise for questions in the usual project spaces (as well as the non-usual - perhaps fedora forums etc?), giving a deadline for when questions will be accepted and another deadline for when candidates' answers will be published, it will help drive a sense of anticipation (maybe a slightly strong word!) but provide a measure of certainty too. > > And second, we need a way to organize those questions and resulting > candidate answers so they are easily found. I've been talking to > people specifically about how to organize some sort of community to > candidate q/a. Nigel seems to have taken the bait and has a plan on > how to integrate community questions AND nominations into the voting > app for all elections. Would be a cool idea so that people could review when they're voting. As well as that, I'd suggest we could use the normal system I've used in the past for interviews: a wiki page with bold for questions and normal for answers, tagged with names at the beginning of each line. We could publish questions/answers over a few days/weeks to drum up further interest. > Nominations: > This was talked about a lot in the post-Board election fab discussion, > and it was generally agreed that encouraging people to nominate others > would help increase the candidate pool, because some people are not > inclined to self-nominate. How do we go about encouraging people to > nominate other people? I don't know exactly beyond blogging about it > again. I guess we could include it in the election info material you've suggested earlier, and make it clear that it's something we're actively encouraging people to do. Again, I'm not certain here. > IRC Debate: > Another idea floating around is organizing a candidate debate for each > election. I can't take credit for this idea. It should be doable. My > main concerning is how to generate the questions/topics for a debate > format. This loops to my personal focus on trying to find a way > generate questions from the community for candidates to answer. If > you've got an idea on how to run a candidate debate for any of the > elections, feel free to chime in. The panel/moderator/audience model would probably be a good one to follow, something similar to the monthly board meetings? I nominate Max to moderate as he does a pretty good job already! > > Meet the Candidate Videos: > If candidates wanted to make introductory videos can we organize a > space for candidates videos that makes it easier for people to find? Fedora TV. Kushal, what do you think? Jon From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Oct 1 17:06:50 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 09:06:50 -0800 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810010958j3d947099u4ef931ce6383d22f@mail.gmail.com> References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> <507738ef0810010958j3d947099u4ef931ce6383d22f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910810011006h1d21b8cds5fedcc83972cfca1@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:58 AM, Jonathan Roberts > Would be a cool idea so that people could review when they're voting. > As well as that, I'd suggest we could use the normal system I've used > in the past for interviews: a wiki page with bold for questions and > normal for answers, tagged with names at the beginning of each line. > We could publish questions/answers over a few days/weeks to drum up > further interest. We could probably accomplish that by extracting questions and answers from the voting application functionality that Nigel wants to put in place and repackaging them in whatever formats make sense as part of a get out the vote effort. We drive votes to the voting app to ask questions, we drive candidates to the voting app to answer questions, then we cull and re-broadcast via other mediums. >> IRC Debate: >> Another idea floating around is organizing a candidate debate for each >> election. I can't take credit for this idea. It should be doable. My >> main concerning is how to generate the questions/topics for a debate >> format. This loops to my personal focus on trying to find a way >> generate questions from the community for candidates to answer. If >> you've got an idea on how to run a candidate debate for any of the >> elections, feel free to chime in. > > The panel/moderator/audience model would probably be a good one to > follow, something similar to the monthly board meetings? I nominate > Max to moderate as he does a pretty good job already! If we do it that way, I'm going to be a sneaky bastard and delibrately pre-seed the audience with people to make sure there are at least a few questions to ask. Or make sure the moderator has some to ask. My fear is, a town hall, would be filled with crickets instead of questions for the candidates. -jef From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Oct 1 17:19:07 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 09:19:07 -0800 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910810011019r64ee9f0dn595ae14588b38130@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 7:18 AM, inode0 wrote: > So one thing that I think would help new contributors get their > bearings, and not just with respect to elections, is something like an > organization chart that explains the structure of the Fedora project > generally. What are all these committees? What purpose do they serve? > What problems do the solve? Knowing that much will suggest a reason to > care to many people I think. I could put a simple chart together. But I'm pretty sure that how I see things working will not be considered the gospel truth by all the groups involved. In fact, would a chart I wrote be any better than a chart you wrote? No matter who writes it, individual groups will come back and may need to rewrite their portion of it. Why don't you take a crack at it, just drafting a chart that relates the groups in this election to each other. I'll make sure each of the groups takes a look at it and puts in feedback. Just make sure the chart graphics uses some purple. -jef From bochecha at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 1 17:42:39 2008 From: bochecha at fedoraproject.org (Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 19:42:39 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: <604aa7910810010921t55316431l8bd2465036bd89ad@mail.gmail.com> References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> <50819.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222876321.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <604aa7910810010921t55316431l8bd2465036bd89ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32801.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222882959.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> > That would > not really have helped me (and people in my case). My issue was >> that I knew absolutely nothing about the candidates. How could I vote >> for >> one or another ? > > > If given an opportunity and encouraged to ask questions of all the > candidates.. would you take it? Would you write a question? Would you > read the answer to other people's questions? Absolutely ! In fact, I read each one's description, but hey, they were all of equal quality to me, and I didn't have the background of each one to make a better opinion. A public "ask your candidate what you want to" session would be great too. We could have each candidate, one after each other, answer questions from potential voters on IRC. That might even be more effective than some written questions submitted to each candidate as: 1. one question from someone often leads to another one from someone else who might not have thought about asking it if it were not for the previous one 2. when you don't see your question in the ones that were chosen to be asked, you are always tempted to think that it was censored Of course, those meetings should be recorded and logged somewhere so that people who could not attend can read them (summarized maybe ?). Anyway, as I said, I *wanted* to vote, but just didn't know who to vote for. Yaakov only came too late with his idea... ---------- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) French Fedora Ambassador ---------- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Oct 1 17:49:08 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 09:49:08 -0800 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: <32801.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222882959.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> <50819.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222876321.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <604aa7910810010921t55316431l8bd2465036bd89ad@mail.gmail.com> <32801.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222882959.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> Message-ID: <604aa7910810011049o65783efdkeef6248455588123@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 9:42 AM, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) > Of course, those meetings should be recorded and logged > somewhere so that people who could not attend can read them > (summarized maybe ?). None of that is impossible. If we ran it like our current public Board meetings like Jon has suggested, it would be logged and archived. Someone with the gumption to do it could then do a summary based on the chatlog. -jef From jonstanley at gmail.com Wed Oct 1 20:59:29 2008 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 16:59:29 -0400 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 6:06 PM, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > Lets see what we can do to encourage people to participate in the > upcoming elections which will be held in Dec or Jan ( depending on F10 > schedule changes) This time around we are having multiple elections > at the same time. Doing it this way allows us to make a concerted push > to increase the community awareness of all the elections/votes. For > reference see: > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2008-September/msg00080.html I think that this is one of the best things that we can do - increasing voter turnout by not nickel-and-diming their time to death. Especially if we hold the ever-popular release naming election at the same time. But that means we need to come up with suggestions and vet them through legal quickly. > So what sort of things can we do? And when should we start doing them? We should start doing stuff ASAP - not necessarily the entire "get out the vote" campaign, but there are preparatory things that I'm sure could be easily done now. > As a start is there a general need to raise the awareness of the > election and voting process we are using? > Can we generate general interest material covering topics like: > Why vote? How do you qualify for voting? What's this range voting stuff?] Yes, I think that the qualification methods depend on the particular election. For some, it's CLA+1, for some you have to be a member of a particular group, etc. An explanation of range voting would be very worthwhile, including what to do if you don't know what to do :) > Community Q/A: > This is the one thing I've been thinking about a lot myself. I think > we can try to encourage people to ask questions they want the > candidates to answer as a way to frame the election and give all the > candidates a better idea of what the voting community cares about. > > It's sort of a two part problem. One we just need to get people out > there to ask questions. I think this comes down to communicating why > each election matters. Can we do that as a marketing campaign? Can we > "sell" the election process? Sure, we can do it in every mailing list, announce list, blog, billboard, TV ad, carrier pigeon, orbital laser, robotic telescope, etc that we have control over :) > And second, we need a way to organize those questions and resulting > candidate answers so they are easily found. I've been talking to > people specifically about how to organize some sort of community to > candidate q/a. Nigel seems to have taken the bait and has a plan on > how to integrate community questions AND nominations into the voting > app for all elections. The voting app is going to grow into being able to do this soonish. As a contingency plan if it's not available for F11 (I don't think that will be a problem), we could use the Wiki for it I think. But this being in the voting app proper is key I think, since it eliminates a lot of the administrative heartache that currently goes into the elections process. > IRC Debate: > Another idea floating around is organizing a candidate debate for each > election. I can't take credit for this idea. It should be doable. My > main concerning is how to generate the questions/topics for a debate > format. This loops to my personal focus on trying to find a way > generate questions from the community for candidates to answer. If > you've got an idea on how to run a candidate debate for any of the > elections, feel free to chime in. I think that this is a wonderful idea - again, as has already been said in this thread, I think that a format similar to Board meetings might work. However, I'd like to take it a step further, and have Fedora Talk debate. However, the factors that prevent us from doing the public board meeting like this also prevent us from doing a debate this way. Without claiming any sort of originality on what the factors are, here they are for the folks that weren't on IRC when Paul and I talked about it: 1) No method for GStreamer stream of the audio for folks to just listen 2) No method of archiving the call 3) No method of making it accessible to the hearing impaired. > Meet the Candidate Videos: > If candidates wanted to make introductory videos can we organize a > space for candidates videos that makes it easier for people to find? A wiki page that points to videos hosted on fedorapeople (or elsewhere)? Or a similar spot in the replacement for the nomination wiki page in the election app? From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Oct 1 21:34:42 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 13:34:42 -0800 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910810011434u65d9d87dq620d9d16e0b06f15@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Jon Stanley wrote: > The voting app is going to grow into being able to do this soonish. As > a contingency plan if it's not available for F11 (I don't think that > will be a problem), we could use the Wiki for it I think. But this > being in the voting app proper is key I think, since it eliminates a > lot of the administrative heartache that currently goes into the > elections process. Okay lets agree on a timeline for when we have to think about going with a wiki based plan B for candidate Q/A. I know Nigel is superhuman, but things happen, and if the functionality for the voting doesn't make it in time I don't want to have this block on pushing him to get it done. And I don't want to drive people to two different locations, if I can avoid it. If the the voting app doesn't have the Q/A functionality by Nov. 7 should we just go ahead and tell people to use the wiki for Q/A? it would help if we could firm up the actual election date, but the actual timeframe (Dec vs Jan) seems to depend on whether F10 slips too much or not. -jef From stickster at gmail.com Thu Oct 2 02:42:47 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 22:42:47 -0400 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: <604aa7910810011049o65783efdkeef6248455588123@mail.gmail.com> References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> <50819.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222876321.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <604aa7910810010921t55316431l8bd2465036bd89ad@mail.gmail.com> <32801.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222882959.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <604aa7910810011049o65783efdkeef6248455588123@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081002024247.GM23900@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> On Wed, Oct 01, 2008 at 09:49:08AM -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 9:42 AM, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) > > Of course, those meetings should be recorded and logged > > somewhere so that people who could not attend can read them > > (summarized maybe ?). > > None of that is impossible. If we ran it like our current public Board > meetings like Jon has suggested, it would be logged and archived. > Someone with the gumption to do it could then do a summary based on > the chatlog. I bet the Fedora News crew would jump at the chance to devote a special issue to this coverage, if someone but asks politely and describes the need concisely. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Oct 2 02:46:49 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 22:46:49 -0400 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: <604aa7910810011006h1d21b8cds5fedcc83972cfca1@mail.gmail.com> References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> <507738ef0810010958j3d947099u4ef931ce6383d22f@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910810011006h1d21b8cds5fedcc83972cfca1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081002024649.GN23900@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> On Wed, Oct 01, 2008 at 09:06:50AM -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:58 AM, Jonathan Roberts > >> IRC Debate: > >> Another idea floating around is organizing a candidate debate for each > >> election. I can't take credit for this idea. It should be doable. My > >> main concerning is how to generate the questions/topics for a debate > >> format. This loops to my personal focus on trying to find a way > >> generate questions from the community for candidates to answer. If > >> you've got an idea on how to run a candidate debate for any of the > >> elections, feel free to chime in. > > > > The panel/moderator/audience model would probably be a good one to > > follow, something similar to the monthly board meetings? I nominate > > Max to moderate as he does a pretty good job already! > > If we do it that way, I'm going to be a sneaky bastard and delibrately > pre-seed the audience with people to make sure there are at least a > few questions to ask. Or make sure the moderator has some to ask. My > fear is, a town hall, would be filled with crickets instead of > questions for the candidates. In that case there are other, more insidious problems to solve. We are going to this length to solve the issue many have raised -- that they don't know why they should vote for any particular candidate. If we give community members a way to discover that and they don't make use of it, we have to step back and ask ourselves very different questions. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jspaleta at gmail.com Thu Oct 2 04:16:27 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 20:16:27 -0800 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: <20081002024247.GM23900@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> <50819.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222876321.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <604aa7910810010921t55316431l8bd2465036bd89ad@mail.gmail.com> <32801.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222882959.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <604aa7910810011049o65783efdkeef6248455588123@mail.gmail.com> <20081002024247.GM23900@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <604aa7910810012116v7d28ea56m7a53a2837df080a5@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/1 Paul W. Frields : > I bet the Fedora News crew would jump at the chance to devote a > special issue to this coverage, if someone but asks politely and > describes the need concisely. well those conditions definitely disqualify me. -jef From stickster at gmail.com Thu Oct 2 12:15:17 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 08:15:17 -0400 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: <604aa7910810012116v7d28ea56m7a53a2837df080a5@mail.gmail.com> References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> <50819.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222876321.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <604aa7910810010921t55316431l8bd2465036bd89ad@mail.gmail.com> <32801.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222882959.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <604aa7910810011049o65783efdkeef6248455588123@mail.gmail.com> <20081002024247.GM23900@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <604aa7910810012116v7d28ea56m7a53a2837df080a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081002121517.GU23900@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> On Wed, Oct 01, 2008 at 08:16:27PM -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > 2008/10/1 Paul W. Frields : > > I bet the Fedora News crew would jump at the chance to devote a > > special issue to this coverage, if someone but asks politely and > > describes the need concisely. > > > well those conditions definitely disqualify me. Heh. Oisin, Pascal, Max, et al.: Would you be interested in running a special issue of Fedora Weekly News -- or simply devoting a regularly scheduled issue -- to reporting on IRC chat interviews/Q&A with community members running for elections? It seems like everyone, including the Board, is in favor of a general election where FESCo, the Board, etc. will run their elections concurrently sometime with 30 days after release of Fedora 10. To give the community a better idea of where nominees stand, the Marketing group will have a method for gathering questions and posing them to the nominees. If FWN were to report those answers they could potentially reach a lot more people, thus resulting in a more informed electorate. Are you interested in this idea? If you're not already, you may want to join the fedora-marketing-list to follow and help with the discussion: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jaa at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 14:34:45 2008 From: jaa at redhat.com (Jack Aboutboul) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 10:34:45 -0400 Subject: Reminder: Marketing Meeting Today 10/2 Message-ID: <48E4DC05.3020508@redhat.com> Hey Everyone, We will be meeting today to further discuss our long term goals When: 3pm eastern time Where: irc.freenode.net #fedora-mktg What: We will be working from our now updated task page!! https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks Please note, we are in the process of transitioning meetings to taking place in #fedora-meeting. Barring any other obstacles this should be the last meeting in the #fedora-mktg channel. Thanks and see you there, Jack From stickster at gmail.com Thu Oct 2 16:58:42 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 12:58:42 -0400 Subject: "Fedora Remix" etymology Message-ID: <20081002165842.GI15653@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> I've seen one or two comments popping up on some news sites in response to the "Fedora Remix" proposal that indicate people mistakenly believe this term originated with Canonical and/or Ubuntu. That is not the case. During the run-up to release of Fedora 7, back in the spring and summer of 2007, we were already talking about the remix concept being a part of Fedora. In fact, those tools were a major release feature. I wanted to put this information out in B&W for the Marketing team so you can discuss how we can best put the idea forward. I would rather this be more of a pro-active move than having to find misinformation and step on it. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jaa at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 17:29:31 2008 From: jaa at redhat.com (Jack Aboutboul) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 13:29:31 -0400 Subject: "Fedora Remix" etymology In-Reply-To: <20081002165842.GI15653@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> References: <20081002165842.GI15653@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <48E504FB.5050408@redhat.com> Paul, et. al, I would like to confirm Paul's comments regarding the etymology remix. I am the person who first came up with it and used it, and if I remember correctly that was in a taping session for some Red Hat promotional material (maybe red hat magazine) in the FUDCon at the the run up to F7. Actually, I had been using it for some time before that but that was the first time we officially all kind of agreed that we liked it and adopted it. I remember it because I came up with the phraseology because I was working a lot with creative commons at the time. Max Spevack can confirm. Jack Paul W. Frields wrote: > I've seen one or two comments popping up on some news sites in > response to the "Fedora Remix" proposal that indicate people > mistakenly believe this term originated with Canonical and/or Ubuntu. > > That is not the case. During the run-up to release of Fedora 7, back > in the spring and summer of 2007, we were already talking about the > remix concept being a part of Fedora. In fact, those tools were a > major release feature. > > I wanted to put this information out in B&W for the Marketing team so > you can discuss how we can best put the idea forward. I would rather > this be more of a pro-active move than having to find misinformation > and step on it. > > From jspaleta at gmail.com Thu Oct 2 18:09:09 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 10:09:09 -0800 Subject: "Fedora Remix" etymology In-Reply-To: <48E504FB.5050408@redhat.com> References: <20081002165842.GI15653@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <48E504FB.5050408@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910810021109m36adf8b8nd079b28424536707@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Jack Aboutboul wrote: > I remember it because I came up with the phraseology because I > was working a lot with creative commons at the time. > > Max Spevack can confirm. Okay Spin Doctor, how do we actually communicate that fact without it sounding reactionary? Didn't Mo' put together some banner art work for F7 that used the terminology? Can we resurrect those images and re-task them to for the new trademark campaign as well as providing visual hints of the pedigree of thought dating back to F7? -jef From jspaleta at gmail.com Thu Oct 2 18:35:38 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 10:35:38 -0800 Subject: "Fedora Remix" etymology In-Reply-To: <604aa7910810021109m36adf8b8nd079b28424536707@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081002165842.GI15653@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <48E504FB.5050408@redhat.com> <604aa7910810021109m36adf8b8nd079b28424536707@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910810021135j36e0d4e1m2140e9cd8456f277@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 10:09 AM, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > Can we resurrect those images and re-task them to for the new > trademark campaign as well as providing visual hints of the pedigree > of thought dating back to F7? Replying to myself. Can we use these previous items as a jumping off point to talk about the updated trademark policy? First Max's message about LiveCDs in the F7 time frame. http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/05/31/remixing-fedora-7/ Lot's of references to "remixing" tools in there. Is the functionality that Max is talking about right there specifically outline the reasoning to update the trademark policy? Can we get Greg to re-voice a second video in this series? http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/05/31/remixing-fedora-7/ Last Image in Video: "Fedora 7 Remixed Remixable" Greg in the video: "Take Fedora and turn it into any distro they need it to be...with trivial amount of work" Here's how I'd say it: Hey guys, sorry it took us a year..but we've re-written our trademark policy to align with the remixing tools and ideas we introduced back in Fedora 7. Sure we talked a lot of about the power of remixing: http://www.redhat.com/v/magazine/ogg/070601_fedora.ogg We even made an uncharacterictly creative attempt at it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bs8vZgTURw And yes, we tried to describe the tools: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/05/31/remixing-fedora-7/ But we missed something...our trademark policy. Technology innovations moves stupefyingly fast around here, and our trademark policy wasn't keeping up. What we said for Fedora 7 is still true, we've got the remixing tools in place so anyone, anywhere can take Fedora and make a version that works best for them with a trivial amount of work. What the new trademark policy does is make it easier for people who want to, to associate their remixes with our project. From a technical point of view, its a minor thing. But from a community point of view it might mean a lot, with the trademark change we've made the project more inclusive and given a way for different remix efforts a way to associated with each other as group of peer efforts and as part of a larger Fedora project community. Because the people behind these remixes are Fedora contributors. Hopefully the trademark policy changes make it as trivial for them to say that, as the remixing tools we introduced in F7 make it as trivial for them to be. -jef From gdk at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 18:45:45 2008 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg Dekoenigsberg) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 14:45:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: "Fedora Remix" etymology In-Reply-To: <604aa7910810021109m36adf8b8nd079b28424536707@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081002165842.GI15653@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <48E504FB.5050408@redhat.com> <604aa7910810021109m36adf8b8nd079b28424536707@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Oct 2008, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Jack Aboutboul wrote: >> I remember it because I came up with the phraseology because I >> was working a lot with creative commons at the time. >> >> Max Spevack can confirm. > > Okay Spin Doctor, how do we actually communicate that fact without it > sounding reactionary? Didn't Mo' put together some banner art work > for F7 that used the terminology? We don't communicate it at all. We just take the term and swing it around like a 9-iron, and dare someone to take it away from us. And when they do try, we have an aggressive communications plan that says "Fedora: Remixing since 2006. Booyah." Oh, and also, we put "Fedora Remix" in the boot sequence of every OLPC system on earth. Scoreboard. --g From pcalarco at nd.edu Thu Oct 2 18:55:10 2008 From: pcalarco at nd.edu (Pascal Calarco) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 14:55:10 -0400 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: <20081002121517.GU23900@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> <50819.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222876321.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <604aa7910810010921t55316431l8bd2465036bd89ad@mail.gmail.com> <32801.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222882959.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <604aa7910810011049o65783efdkeef6248455588123@mail.gmail.com> <20081002024247.GM23900@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <604aa7910810012116v7d28ea56m7a53a2837df080a5@mail.gmail.com> <20081002121517.GU23900@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <48E5190E.8050408@nd.edu> Paul W. Frields wrote: > Oisin, Pascal, Max, et al.: Would you be interested in running a > special issue of Fedora Weekly News -- or simply devoting a regularly > scheduled issue -- to reporting on IRC chat interviews/Q&A with > community members running for elections? > > It seems like everyone, including the Board, is in favor of a general > election where FESCo, the Board, etc. will run their elections > concurrently sometime with 30 days after release of Fedora 10. To > give the community a better idea of where nominees stand, the > Marketing group will have a method for gathering questions and posing > them to the nominees. If FWN were to report those answers they could > potentially reach a lot more people, thus resulting in a more informed > electorate. This seems like a great idea to me, and a nice way for FWN to help spread the word on getting more community involvement in the election! One suggestion might be to include these as they come in, in regular FWN issues, and then put together a special issue of all of these together, along with any other additional content y'all feel would be useful, closer to the election, perhaps at the beginning of the voting period. Other suggestions most welcome! - pascal From larry.cafiero at gmail.com Thu Oct 2 18:57:45 2008 From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 11:57:45 -0700 Subject: "Fedora Remix" etymology In-Reply-To: References: <20081002165842.GI15653@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <48E504FB.5050408@redhat.com> <604aa7910810021109m36adf8b8nd079b28424536707@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7a0d56080810021157s1d0d9cdfgd57cb2fdc1342d1a@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote: > We just take the term and swing it around > like a 9-iron . . . . Greg must have seen me golf to come up with this analogy . . . . From smooge at gmail.com Thu Oct 2 19:31:34 2008 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 13:31:34 -0600 Subject: "Fedora Remix" etymology In-Reply-To: References: <20081002165842.GI15653@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <48E504FB.5050408@redhat.com> <604aa7910810021109m36adf8b8nd079b28424536707@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <80d7e4090810021231i58a01964ue94ac176e95d41bb@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 12:45 PM, Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Oct 2008, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > >> On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Jack Aboutboul wrote: >>> >>> I remember it because I came up with the phraseology because I >>> was working a lot with creative commons at the time. >>> >>> Max Spevack can confirm. >> >> Okay Spin Doctor, how do we actually communicate that fact without it >> sounding reactionary? Didn't Mo' put together some banner art work >> for F7 that used the terminology? > > We don't communicate it at all. We just take the term and swing it around > like a 9-iron, and dare someone to take it away from us. And when they do > try, we have an aggressive communications plan that says "Fedora: Remixing > since 2006. Booyah." I think we are more likely to swing around a putter, and everyone is telling us "Use a frickin' 9 iron you geek!" If there is one thing that Red Hat has been extremely well at doing for over 15 years... its been lack of communication about things we do. We either concentrate on something that only a few people care about (who Red Hat then hires on as they are the ones driving and owrking on it)... or look around in utter astonishment when someone else comes out with something and we say things like "compiling for the i586 is a waste of time, we did some work on it but it made things worse. Hey listen to us.. you aren't getting anything better out of that binary.. look sure we didn't publish it.. we were busy working on cool-geeky-toyX." Oh and we usually have some guy dance around and remind us we all look like geeks waving around a putter when we were supposed to be swinging a 9 iron. [Bonus points when we say "Oh I thought this was a wood."] I agree with GDK on this one. So we were going to use it in 2007 or 2006 or 1998 when some people thought of Mandrake as a remix.. "Oh they are using it cool. Well great minds think a like." and move on moments. I am off to find some coffee before my eyes explode out of my head. > Oh, and also, we put "Fedora Remix" in the boot sequence of every OLPC > system on earth. Scoreboard. > > --g > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- BSD/GNU/Linux How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From kwade at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 19:39:53 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 12:39:53 -0700 Subject: talking points for F10 Message-ID: <1222976393.3452.202.camel@calliope.phig.org> Having a common set of discussion topics (talking points) helps Ambassadors and others to remember key message points. It also gives us several key paragraphs we can request be included in any locale-specific release announcements. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Announcements/TalkingPoints Rather than have one, dry release announcement, or trying to figure out how to translate our whimsical announcement and still have it be relevant, the talking points let an Ambassador or L10n team write a native language announcement from scratch in a locally acceptable style. What should we have in that talking point list, with what language around it? Remember, the talking points aren't for using verbatim (although you can), they are for creating a common set of discussion topics when interacting about the release. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From karlie_robinson at webpath.net Thu Oct 2 20:01:55 2008 From: karlie_robinson at webpath.net (Karlie Robinson) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 16:01:55 -0400 Subject: talking points for F10 In-Reply-To: <1222976393.3452.202.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1222976393.3452.202.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <48E528B3.9090106@webpath.net> Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > What should we have in that talking point list, with what language > around it? > > I would suggest highlighting significant technology improvements. Especially technology that is an advancements to Linux as a whole. I often joke that at the rate Linux is being developed we'll have flying cars in just a few years. Fedora drives that innovation and I think we should point it out. From fugolini at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 2 20:28:34 2008 From: fugolini at fedoraproject.org (Francesco Ugolini) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 22:28:34 +0200 Subject: talking points for F10 In-Reply-To: <1222976393.3452.202.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1222976393.3452.202.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: 2008/10/2 Karsten 'quaid' Wade : > What should we have in that talking point list, with what language > around it? It seems stupid and quite obsolete, but first of all, from my own perspective, I'll put some answers to common questions: until today the majority of the people didn't notice the difference between RH5 and F9 (soon to be become F10). I know those are annoying points (and they aren't directly connected with F10), but I think we need to clear our position in order to present the new release. After this I'll put the key features, maybe underlining something Fedora-strong feature and user-centric feature (better webcam support and so on). For Localization, I'm sure there will be people ready to do that, like for Release Notes. That's my point of view Regards Francesco Ugolini From kwade at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 21:16:37 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 14:16:37 -0700 Subject: Fedora Marketing Meeting 2008-10-02 IRC log Message-ID: <1222982197.3452.206.camel@calliope.phig.org> Available in wiki format here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Marketing_IRC_log_20081002 12:00 < themayor> okay, let the meeting come to order 12:00 < quaid> btw 12:00 < themayor> we'll wait a couple minutes to let people file in, but please lets start the ROLL CALL 12:00 < quaid> we did get the other meeting slot in #fedora-meeting 12:00 * lcafiero plays the role of larry cafiero 12:00 * gregdek will be in and out, call me by name if you need me 12:00 < quaid> I presumptively put us on the meeting channel page for this time, too, to hold the slot 12:01 < themayor> quaid: awesome, yeah i knew you got it, but just wanted to make sure we dont lose anyone 12:01 < quaid> ok, then _next_week_ we'll start telling people before the meeting to head to that channel instead of stay here? 12:01 < themayor> yeah absolutely 12:01 < themayor> in the announce i said this should be the last week in here 12:01 < kushal> so Roll Call ? 12:02 < mizmo> yo 12:02 < themayor> yeah roll call 12:02 * quaid is still Karsten 12:02 < kushal> Kushal Das 12:02 < ria> Ria Das 12:02 * lcafiero still larry cafiero 12:04 * ke4qqq is here 12:04 < kushal> please continue 12:05 < kushal> why we stopped ? 12:05 < themayor> we are waiting for role call 12:05 < fugolini> FrancescoUgolini 12:06 * fugolini will be afk for 5mins 12:06 < kushal> themayor, start the class :p 12:06 < themayor> okay awesome 12:06 < themayor> lets go 12:06 < themayor> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks 12:06 < themayor> pull that up 12:07 -!- Subhodip [n=subhodip at fedora/subhodip] has quit ["Laters .."] 12:07 < themayor> we are continuing discussion of our long term goals 12:08 < themayor> basically as a summary 12:08 < themayor> last meeting 12:08 * fugolini brb 12:09 < themayor> we all agreed that we need to marketing featuring better 12:09 < themayor> and we need more management of press leading up to and at release time 12:10 < themayor> so based on that, quaid updated the task list 12:10 < themayor> is stickster around? 12:10 < themayor> maybe he can update us on press efforts for the forthcoming release 12:11 < ke4qqq> stickster: is in hospital visiting his mother iirc 12:11 < themayor> ah yeah 12:11 < themayor> sorry 12:12 < themayor> i forgot i read that befoe 12:12 < quaid> Caroline is back as our @redhat.com PR liaison 12:12 < quaid> paul has written to some lists about the major features they are focusing on in press work 12:12 < themayor> yup and yup 12:12 < themayor> caroline is back from leave 12:13 < quaid> btw, I recommended we add "XFS available during installation" to that list (although it's been in since F9?); purely as a marketing move and response to the years of complaints :) 12:13 < themayor> we've had that for much longer than f9 actually 12:13 < quaid> ah, guess I did miss that :) 12:13 * quaid pipes down 12:14 < ke4qqq> really?? I don't recall it in f8 12:14 < ke4qqq> but perhaps I missed it 12:14 < themayor> anyway 12:14 < themayor> yes, we should put that in there 12:14 < fugolini> ? 12:16 < themayor> okay anyway, if paul isnt here, lets table the press stuff for next week 12:16 < themayor> next week we need to have a serious discussion of that 12:16 < fugolini> May I ask you a thing 12:16 < fugolini> ? 12:16 < themayor> yes 12:16 < themayor> go ahead 12:16 < fugolini> You talked about press release, but you are referring to en_US press release 12:16 < fugolini> ? 12:16 < fugolini> *are you 12:16 < quaid> sort-of 12:17 < fugolini> ah, ok 12:17 < quaid> we already have a process for release announcements to be fully localized 12:17 < themayor> for the most part, yes 12:17 < themayor> but we have a process for translation of release announcements and whatever 12:17 < quaid> do we want to consider the formal press release be l10nized? 12:17 -!- No5251 [n=No5251 at p50990d02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:18 < themayor> if we think we can handle it without significant trouble, why not 12:18 < themayor> ? 12:18 -!- DemonJester [n=DemonJes at fedora/DemonJester] has joined #fedora-mktg 12:18 < fugolini> I was just wondering about the possibility to have a way to push press release around the world, maybe using rh officies 12:18 < fugolini> *offices 12:18 < quaid> I'll talk with Paul about it 12:18 < quaid> the concern, historically, has been 12:19 < quaid> not wanting to show the formal press release in advance, if it gets out it ruins the expectation/relationship with traditional journalists. 12:19 < fugolini> right 12:19 < quaid> anyway, I'll ask Paul if we want to try this time 12:21 < themayor> okay so lets add that as a note to the current task on the list 12:21 < themayor> and lets move on 12:22 < themayor> quaid: update on release announcements 12:22 < quaid> themayor: are you editing the task list as you go? 12:22 < themayor> anything you want to tell us? 12:22 < themayor> quaid: not currently, no, 12:22 < themayor> is there a lock on the page? 12:22 < quaid> The Beta announcement went out fine 12:23 < quaid> it's time to refine the talking points so we can have locale-specific ones based on the talking points. 12:23 * quaid runs some edits on that task list then 12:25 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Announcements/TalkingPoints 12:25 < quaid> so let's get on it! 12:25 < quaid> 12:25 < themayor> i agree, localized talking points would be awesome 12:25 < fugolini> +1 12:26 < quaid> we keep waiting until too late in the cycle 12:26 * fugolini hopes he could join the discussion (is a open one?) 12:26 < quaid> partially because it was just me pushing it :) 12:26 < quaid> fugolini: of course! 12:26 < fugolini> thnaks 12:26 < quaid> let's in fact start a thread on the list 12:26 < quaid> (marketing-list) 12:29 < themayor> okay 12:29 < themayor> is that moved to the list then? 12:29 < themayor> lets keep things moving if so 12:31 < themayor> ke4qqq: whats up? 12:31 < themayor> did you ever finalize that presentation? 12:31 -!- tw-work is now known as tw2113 12:31 < ke4qqq> yeah mizmo is making it purty last I heard 12:31 < mizmo> ke4qqq, i havent had a chance to yet, its on my todo list 12:32 < themayor> awesome 12:32 < themayor> we will check again next week i guess 12:32 < themayor> speaking of next week 12:32 < themayor> i wont be around next thursday 12:32 < themayor> so someone else will need to lead the meeting 12:32 < themayor> i guess i will follow up on the list to see who that will ne 12:32 < themayor> its yom kippur next thursday 12:33 < themayor> anyway 12:33 < tw2113> ooh meeting 12:34 < tw2113> MichaelBeckwith 12:34 < themayor> mizmo: max said we have money for the printing 12:34 < themayor> did anyone follow up on any of that? 12:34 < themayor> he should be in the US tomorrow 12:34 < mizmo> themayor, yeh i got max's okay and know how many to order, there is some work i have to do to the source files for the printer to work with them 12:34 < mizmo> its on my plate 12:35 < themayor> okay great 12:35 < themayor> awesome 12:35 < themayor> mizmo: any update on the four foundations stuff? 12:36 < mizmo> themayor, nope, ive been bogged down with f10 art work 12:36 < themayor> fair enough 12:36 < themayor> i guess thats a priority 12:36 < themayor> hows that coming? 12:38 -!- mthompson [n=Michelle at nat/redhat/x-c63ff830e9c6b83b] has joined #fedora-mktg 12:39 < themayor> mizmo: ? 12:39 < themayor> i guess she is busy 12:39 < themayor> stepped afk 12:39 < mizmo> themayor, same as last week 12:39 < mizmo> the icons that is 12:39 < mizmo> the f10 artwork, pretty good :) 12:40 < themayor> awesome 12:40 < themayor> keep up all the great work 12:40 < themayor> props to you and the art team 12:40 < mizmo> :) 12:40 < quaid> MAD props 12:41 < spoleeba> quaid, i was going to buy them some mad libs...but props are better 12:43 < themayor> hahaha 12:43 < themayor> kushal: any updates on the FedoraTV stuff? 12:43 < kushal> yes 12:43 < kushal> First of all , I need feed back on "Linux Ahead" news 12:44 < kushal> don't know who saw it ? 12:44 < kushal> me and mether are going to do this weekly 12:45 < spoleeba> kushal, let me watch it today and i'll give you feedback...where would you like.. private email? 12:45 < kushal> anyone ? 12:45 < kushal> spoleeba, ok 12:46 < spoleeba> kushal, the fact that you are attempting to do it...is already super great 12:46 < fugolini> yeah 12:46 < themayor> its awesome 12:46 < themayor> i did watch it 12:46 < kushal> ke4qqq, I also started having audio files 12:46 < themayor> theres lots of goofs, but its a start of something ive wanted done for a looooong time 12:46 < spoleeba> kushal, what sort of stuff are you looking for? like feedback on your hairstyle and clothing...or something more structural feedback? 12:46 < kushal> spoleeba, lol 12:47 < kushal> spoleeba, structural 12:47 < kushal> actually I sat in wrong chair 12:47 < kushal> and I was missing the board where I wrote all the news 12:47 < kushal> :( 12:47 < spoleeba> kushal, i have to watch it....but i always thing of this sort of thing in terms of...segments..can we easily take bites out of it and reuse them 12:47 < kushal> so I was looking right many times, to see what is next 12:47 < kushal> spoleeba, ok 12:48 < spoleeba> kushal, production quality...is a matter of practise 12:48 < kushal> one more thing 12:48 < kushal> Should I put "meet the contributors" videos on fedora tv ? 12:48 < spoleeba> kushal, ive seen some really craptastic pilot sitcome episodes..that got better in the 2nd episode 12:48 < spoleeba> kushal, i dont see why not 12:48 < kushal> spoleeba, :) 12:49 < spoleeba> kushal, hell... the original pilot for Happy Days had a brother for Richie Cunningham...totally gone in the second episode 12:49 < themayor> hahaha 12:49 < themayor> anyway 12:50 < themayor> kushal: yes about the meet the contrubitor videos 12:50 < kushal> ok, cool 12:50 < kushal> btw, I started getting good hits than previous month from miro 12:50 < quaid> spoleeba: I thought the brother was always "off at College"; I remember him playing bball and stuff; but he was gone within a season or two 12:51 < spoleeba> quaid, shrug 12:51 < themayor> lol 12:51 < spoleeba> quaid, im sure by next season kushal will have this ironed out 12:51 < kushal> any other feedback on the screencasts ? 12:51 < kushal> spoleeba, hehe 12:51 * lcafiero has to go to day job and begs the chair's pardon 12:51 -!- lcafiero [n=larry at dsl-63-249-115-153.cruzio.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:51 < themayor> alright with the remaining 9 minutes anyone want to add anything else or bring anything else to the table? 12:52 < spoleeba> themayor, election-eering? 12:52 < kushal> 12:52 < quaid> spoleeba: what do you have in mind about it? seems lively on list :) 12:53 < themayor> yeah its a hot topic 12:53 < spoleeba> quaid, again..big concern is timetable..we do have to astroturf a little bit to get people...engaged 12:53 -!- Prakhar is now known as AcidBURN 12:54 < fugolini> spoleeba: I think IRC debate could still work 12:54 < fugolini> maybe Candidates videos 12:54 < fugolini> would require more time, 12:55 -!- AcidBURN is now known as Prakhar 12:55 < themayor> do we have time for candidate videos? 12:55 < themayor> fugolini: yeah 12:55 < spoleeba> quaid, my biggest concern is...when is the damn election actually going to be..so we know when to start juicing the constituency with made up political scandals 12:55 < ke4qqq> -1 for candidate videos - it would take a ton of time to watch anything substantive from every candidate in every election people are eligible to vote in - but I could read the log of a debate rather quickly 12:55 < spoleeba> themayor, individual candidates can do it right now...you just need a working camera and cheese 12:56 < spoleeba> themayor, we cant mandate everyone do them 12:56 < fugolini> From ambassadors perspective it has to be between December 1st and December 20th (the election days) 12:56 -!- moixs [n=chatzill at 77-56-149-52.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #fedora-mktg 12:56 < themayor> spoleeba: well we need to plant that seed in their head 12:56 < spoleeba> themayor, right..timetable 12:56 < spoleeba> themayor, everything basically needs to happen about a month before 12:57 < spoleeba> themayor, so we have a couple of weeks of candicate action..and a little q/a..then 2 weeks out we can repackage that interaction to feed into a debate 12:57 < spoleeba> themayor, err i should say..set the stage and build interest for a debate 12:57 < spoleeba> themayor, 1 week out from the vote or so 12:59 < themayor> yeah 12:59 < themayor> but like was stated, i dont think we can make it man datory 12:59 < themayor> mandatory even 12:59 < fugolini> logically 12:59 < themayor> surely a video will be a big boost to any candidate that chooses to do so 13:00 < spoleeba> themayor, oh i think a video would have hurt me :-> 13:00 < fugolini> themayor: but there are people who don't own a camera 13:00 < fugolini> or have bad skills in post processing 13:00 < themayor> well some things are beyond our control 13:00 < fugolini> eof 13:00 < themayor> anyway 13:00 < themayor> we are just about over an hour 13:00 < themayor> anyone want to add anything else 13:01 < themayor> otherwise, ill say lets move everything over to the list till next week 13:01 < fugolini> themayor: who will take the duty to follow IRC candidate talk ? 13:01 < fugolini> spoleeba: ? 13:01 < spoleeba> fugolini, follow? 13:01 < themayor> and we really need to sit down and have a proper long term strategy sessions maybe next week, when more people with more ideas are around 13:02 < spoleeba> themayor, who said i was around next week? 13:02 -!- ianweller_afk is now known as ianweller 13:02 < spoleeba> themayor, im flying to NC weds 13:02 < fugolini> spoleeba: I was just asking who will take care of this task 13:02 < fugolini> IRC debates 13:02 < fugolini> or each project organize it on its own? 13:02 < spoleeba> fugolini, i believe spevack was already volunteered on the list 13:02 < themayor> spoleeba: well, lets follow up with a good hearty discussion on the list and i guess i will PM sometime between now and next week 13:03 < fugolini> ah ok 13:03 < spoleeba> fugolini, to moderate 13:03 < fugolini> that's great 13:04 < themayor> alright, i need to move on to other work, so im gonna call it a meeting unless anyone objects? 13:04 < themayor> or i can go and you guys can feel free to chatter bug about 13:05 < themayor> got a phone conf in 11 mins 13:05 < themayor> alright, thats a wrap then 13:05 < themayor> see you guys on the list 13:06 < fugolini> thank you themayor 13:06 < themayor> thank you guys for all the awesome work -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Oct 3 01:05:18 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:05:18 -0700 Subject: Fedora Marketing Meeting 2008-10-02 Summary Message-ID: <1222995918.3452.220.camel@calliope.phig.org> Remove this line, then fill in date above along with other details below Attendees: ----------- Jack Aboutboul (themayor) Karsten Wade (quaid) Kushal Das (kushal) Ria Das (ria) Larry CAfiero (lcafiero) Greg DeKonigsberg (gregdek) David Nalley (ke4qqq) Franceso Ugolini (fugolini) Mairin Duffy (mizmo) Michael Beckwith (tw2113) Jef Spaleta (spoleeba) Summary: --------- * Discussed election, similar to on-list discussion * Meeting moving to #fedora-meeting, same timeslot * All task summaries here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From larry.cafiero at gmail.com Fri Oct 3 03:01:56 2008 From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 20:01:56 -0700 Subject: Fedora Marketing Meeting 2008-10-02 Summary In-Reply-To: <1222995918.3452.220.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1222995918.3452.220.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <7a0d56080810022001r2f660d54o772ee539c93bf86e@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Karsten. When spelling my surname, though, could you spell it "Cafiero" (not a capital A)? Larry Cafiero 2008/10/2 Karsten 'quaid' Wade : > Remove this line, then fill in date above along with other details below > > Attendees: > ----------- > Jack Aboutboul (themayor) > Karsten Wade (quaid) > Kushal Das (kushal) > Ria Das (ria) > Larry CAfiero (lcafiero) > Greg DeKonigsberg (gregdek) > David Nalley (ke4qqq) > Franceso Ugolini (fugolini) > Mairin Duffy (mizmo) > Michael Beckwith (tw2113) > Jef Spaleta (spoleeba) > > > Summary: > --------- > > * Discussed election, similar to on-list discussion > * Meeting moving to #fedora-meeting, same timeslot > * All task summaries here: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From steven.moix at axianet.ch Fri Oct 3 11:09:21 2008 From: steven.moix at axianet.ch (Steven Moix) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:09:21 +0200 Subject: talking points for F10 In-Reply-To: <48E528B3.9090106@webpath.net> References: <1222976393.3452.202.camel@calliope.phig.org> <48E528B3.9090106@webpath.net> Message-ID: <1223032161.18574.0.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> On Thu, 2008-10-02 at 16:01 -0400, Karlie Robinson wrote: > Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > What should we have in that talking point list, with what language > > around it? > > > > > I would suggest highlighting significant technology improvements. > Especially technology that is an advancements to Linux as a whole. That's exactly what we focused on with the F10 Beta release announcement, I totally agree. Steven From mspevack at redhat.com Fri Oct 3 12:36:59 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 08:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: "Fedora Remix" etymology In-Reply-To: <604aa7910810021135j36e0d4e1m2140e9cd8456f277@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081002165842.GI15653@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <48E504FB.5050408@redhat.com> <604aa7910810021109m36adf8b8nd079b28424536707@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910810021135j36e0d4e1m2140e9cd8456f277@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Oct 2008, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > Replying to myself. > > Can we use these previous items as a jumping off point to talk about > the updated trademark policy? > > First Max's message about LiveCDs in the F7 time frame. > http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/05/31/remixing-fedora-7/ > Lot's of references to "remixing" tools in there. > Is the functionality that Max is talking about right there > specifically outline the reasoning to update the trademark policy? I missed this thread yesterday due to being on a plane, but that RHM article is exactly what I was going to point to for the purposes of establishing a date of the "remix" phrase being used. And yes, I do remember when Jack left me a voice mail that said "dude, Fedora 7 needs to be all about the remix". :) --Max From stickster at gmail.com Fri Oct 3 12:42:32 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 08:42:32 -0400 Subject: Fedora Marketing Meeting 2008-10-02 Summary In-Reply-To: <7a0d56080810022001r2f660d54o772ee539c93bf86e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1222995918.3452.220.camel@calliope.phig.org> <7a0d56080810022001r2f660d54o772ee539c93bf86e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081003124232.GE32171@salma.internal.frields.org> On Thu, Oct 02, 2008 at 08:01:56PM -0700, Larry Cafiero wrote: > When spelling my surname, though, could you spell it "Cafiero" (not a > capital A)? I thought he was just making a big point of the West Coast representin', yo. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bochecha at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 3 13:12:35 2008 From: bochecha at fedoraproject.org (Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 15:12:35 +0200 (CEST) Subject: "Fedora Remix" etymology In-Reply-To: References: <20081002165842.GI15653@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <48E504FB.5050408@redhat.com> <604aa7910810021109m36adf8b8nd079b28424536707@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910810021135j36e0d4e1m2140e9cd8456f277@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44926.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223039555.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> Hi, > I missed this thread yesterday due to being on a plane, but that RHM > article is exactly what I was going to point to for the purposes of > establishing a date of the "remix" phrase being used. > > And yes, I do remember when Jack left me a voice mail that said "dude, > Fedora 7 needs to be all about the remix". :) I'm not sure I understood very well, but is this thread about knowing who between Ubuntu and Fedora is the first one who used the term "remix" ? If it's not, maybe I should read it more carefully, but if it is, how could that matter ? o_O Regards, ---------- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) French Fedora Ambassador ---------- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin From kwade at redhat.com Fri Oct 3 13:18:20 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2008 06:18:20 -0700 Subject: Fedora Marketing Meeting 2008-10-02 Summary In-Reply-To: <7a0d56080810022001r2f660d54o772ee539c93bf86e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1222995918.3452.220.camel@calliope.phig.org> <7a0d56080810022001r2f660d54o772ee539c93bf86e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1223039900.3452.233.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, 2008-10-02 at 20:01 -0700, Larry Cafiero wrote: > Thanks, Karsten. > > When spelling my surname, though, could you spell it "Cafiero" (not a > capital A)? And with that, you have just volunteered to pre-edit all my email. ;-D - Karsten, arranging the appropriate mail filters > Larry Cafiero > > 2008/10/2 Karsten 'quaid' Wade : > > Remove this line, then fill in date above along with other details below > > > > Attendees: > > ----------- > > Jack Aboutboul (themayor) > > Karsten Wade (quaid) > > Kushal Das (kushal) > > Ria Das (ria) > > Larry CAfiero (lcafiero) > > Greg DeKonigsberg (gregdek) > > David Nalley (ke4qqq) > > Franceso Ugolini (fugolini) > > Mairin Duffy (mizmo) > > Michael Beckwith (tw2113) > > Jef Spaleta (spoleeba) > > > > > > Summary: > > --------- > > > > * Discussed election, similar to on-list discussion > > * Meeting moving to #fedora-meeting, same timeslot > > * All task summaries here: > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks > > > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Oct 3 14:43:06 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 10:43:06 -0400 Subject: "Fedora Remix" etymology In-Reply-To: <44926.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223039555.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> References: <20081002165842.GI15653@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <48E504FB.5050408@redhat.com> <604aa7910810021109m36adf8b8nd079b28424536707@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910810021135j36e0d4e1m2140e9cd8456f277@mail.gmail.com> <44926.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223039555.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> Message-ID: <20081003144306.GH32171@salma.internal.frields.org> On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 03:12:35PM +0200, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote: > Hi, > > > I missed this thread yesterday due to being on a plane, but that RHM > > article is exactly what I was going to point to for the purposes of > > establishing a date of the "remix" phrase being used. > > > > And yes, I do remember when Jack left me a voice mail that said "dude, > > Fedora 7 needs to be all about the remix". :) > > I'm not sure I understood very well, but is this thread about knowing who > between Ubuntu and Fedora is the first one who used the term "remix" ? > > If it's not, maybe I should read it more carefully, but if it is, how > could that matter ? o_O The term remix has been around for a long time before any Linux distribution started using it. It started with the corporate music business, and progressed down to professional and then indie DJ's, and now to any kid with a few minutes of spare time and an audio application that lets them do mashups. Heck, some artists give their raw tracks away and ask their fans to produce them. (I really dig the Nine Inch Nails fans' "The Limitless Potential" album for some cool remixes of "Year Zero" tracks.) That's a lot like the overall progress of our culture, moving the power and concepts of building on pre-existing science and art from the hands of the few to the hands of the many. Yesterday, I was looking through some comments responding to press about some of the Fedora remixes that are starting to trickle out. And there I saw a couple of people -- not a lot, just a couple -- floating the idea that somehow Fedora was copying other distributions' remix concepts. And honestly, it *did* bother me, because we have been working on this since 2006, and even made a big deal about it in the run-up to Fedora 7 in May 2007. The entire reason we were in the driver's seat on making remixable distributions -- as with so many other features -- is that we do all our work in the open, freely distributable and modifiable by everyone. Developing these remix tools freely and openly is how we've always made Fedora, and we're going to continue to embrace that idea. I'm not saying that no one else should do it -- on the contrary! Wouldn't that be hypocritical, to encourage remixes and then say that no one else should do the same? What I *am* trying to say is that the whole concept behind the remix culture is that you *give credit* where it's due. When I remix Nine Inch Nails, I don't claim to have written the music, I just take the tracks that Trent, et al. created, and put them together differently. So it strikes me as a little bit "Johnny come lately" when I see other people not only claiming to have invented the concept but somehow intimating that it should be exclusive. In this age of rumor being taken for fact, the loudest voice overpowering the written record, and hyperlinks replacing evidence, it's important that we keep history and reality in mind. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 5 13:33:04 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 14:33:04 +0100 Subject: Opening RHM/news.fp.o Message-ID: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> So, what was the result of the conversations we had about this? Jon From pcalarco at nd.edu Sun Oct 5 14:26:01 2008 From: pcalarco at nd.edu (Pascal Calarco) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 10:26:01 -0400 Subject: FWN: Facebook page In-Reply-To: <20081005135508.GE467@localhost.localdomain> References: <48E8C56E.1020202@nd.edu> <20081005135508.GE467@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <48E8CE79.5000101@nd.edu> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sun, Oct 05, 2008 at 09:47:26AM -0400, Pascal Calarco wrote: > >> I thought I would try to raise the visibility of FWN a bit by creating a >> Facebook page for FWN, as a 'communications product' type of Fan page. >> Not high impact, but another vector that advances the publication, the >> project, and the brand. >> >> Suggestions and revisions most welcome! >> >> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fedora-Weekly-News/33564906746 >> > > The splintering of pages on Facebook continues to be an issue with a > lot of FB users. Have you considered getting added to the existing > Fedora groups somehow, and submitting stories to those pages instead? > > http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=11454680248&ref=ts > http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=2205138518&ref=ts > > I don't know that much about Facebook groups and how they operate, so > maybe there's a way to "subscribe" your group to the others, in which > case it wouldn't matter whether it's separate or not. Good luck! > Agreed. Search for 'Fedora' in Facebook and you get many pages with a wide variety of utility and authority. Perhaps a few of us in the marketing list could work on what Paul suggests here? Anyone up for this? There is also a semi-official Fedora Ambassadors page on FB that would be good if it could be made official. - pascal From larry.cafiero at gmail.com Sun Oct 5 15:15:46 2008 From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 08:15:46 -0700 Subject: FWN: Facebook page In-Reply-To: <48E8CE79.5000101@nd.edu> References: <48E8C56E.1020202@nd.edu> <20081005135508.GE467@localhost.localdomain> <48E8CE79.5000101@nd.edu> Message-ID: <7a0d56080810050815g559f21aeme3bd7a0e4e613fb8@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Pascal -- I got onto Facebook by accident several months ago -- a friend wanted me to see something, so I signed on not thinking I was signing into FB -- but find it to be somewhat helpful in getting the word out to like-minded communities. I am in some of the Fedora groups on FB -- even bestowed administrator status on one -- but I haven't seen the Fedora Ambassador one. Care to point it out? Thanks for starting a FWN fan group -- I'm in. Larry Cafiero On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 7:26 AM, Pascal Calarco wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> >> On Sun, Oct 05, 2008 at 09:47:26AM -0400, Pascal Calarco wrote: >> >>> >>> I thought I would try to raise the visibility of FWN a bit by creating a >>> Facebook page for FWN, as a 'communications product' type of Fan page. >>> Not high impact, but another vector that advances the publication, the >>> project, and the brand. >>> Suggestions and revisions most welcome! >>> >>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fedora-Weekly-News/33564906746 >>> >> >> The splintering of pages on Facebook continues to be an issue with a >> lot of FB users. Have you considered getting added to the existing >> Fedora groups somehow, and submitting stories to those pages instead? >> >> http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=11454680248&ref=ts >> http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=2205138518&ref=ts >> >> I don't know that much about Facebook groups and how they operate, so >> maybe there's a way to "subscribe" your group to the others, in which >> case it wouldn't matter whether it's separate or not. Good luck! >> > > Agreed. Search for 'Fedora' in Facebook and you get many pages with a wide > variety of utility and authority. Perhaps a few of us in the marketing list > could work on what Paul suggests here? Anyone up for this? There is also a > semi-official Fedora Ambassadors page on FB that would be good if it could > be made official. > > - pascal > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From pcalarco at nd.edu Sun Oct 5 15:34:02 2008 From: pcalarco at nd.edu (Pascal Calarco) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 11:34:02 -0400 Subject: FWN: Facebook page In-Reply-To: <7a0d56080810050815g559f21aeme3bd7a0e4e613fb8@mail.gmail.com> References: <48E8C56E.1020202@nd.edu> <20081005135508.GE467@localhost.localdomain> <48E8CE79.5000101@nd.edu> <7a0d56080810050815g559f21aeme3bd7a0e4e613fb8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48E8DE6A.5050900@nd.edu> Hi Larry -- Larry Cafiero wrote: > Hi, Pascal -- > > I got onto Facebook by accident several months ago -- a friend wanted > me to see something, so I signed on not thinking I was signing into FB > -- but find it to be somewhat helpful in getting the word out to > like-minded communities. > > I am in some of the Fedora groups on FB -- even bestowed administrator > status on one -- but I haven't seen the Fedora Ambassador one. Care to > point it out? > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=686647657&ref=profile#/group.php?gid=8344782027&ref=mf Thanks! - pascal From pcalarco at nd.edu Sun Oct 5 15:59:43 2008 From: pcalarco at nd.edu (Pascal Calarco) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 11:59:43 -0400 Subject: FWN: Facebook page In-Reply-To: <7a0d56080810050815g559f21aeme3bd7a0e4e613fb8@mail.gmail.com> References: <48E8C56E.1020202@nd.edu> <20081005135508.GE467@localhost.localdomain> <48E8CE79.5000101@nd.edu> <7a0d56080810050815g559f21aeme3bd7a0e4e613fb8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48E8E46F.3030703@nd.edu> One further suggestion on aggregating Fedora Facebook pages: One successful approach I have seen used is to create a central resource page that points to the endorsed related and subpages/groups. We could provide links to the pages the official project endorses to give them more authority, and work with owners of those groups to provide backlinks back to the central page. The Fedora Linux groups on Facebook that I can find are: Fedora Core Rocks! http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit.php?members&gid=2205138518 1030 members Admin/owner: Steve Hurley (Salem State) Fedora Core Users http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit.php?members&gid=2216011142 446 members Admin/owner: Omar Saleem (Herndon High) / Camilo Mesias (Leicester) Fedora Bangaldesh http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit.php?members&gid=15219484140 95 members Admin/owner: Mahay Alam Khan (BdOSN) / Imtiaz Rahi (Bangladesh) links to fedorabd at yahoo.com Fedora - Linux http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit.php?members&gid=11454680248 291 members Admins/owners include Paul Frields & Larry Cafiero *This should likely be the official page* Fedora-fr (France) http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit.php?members&gid=20097201496 55 users Admins/owners: Guillaume Kulakowski (France) / Johan Cwiklinski (France) links to http://www.fedora-fr.org/ Fedora 8 Warewolf ES http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit.php?members&gid=5916177534 36 users Admins/owners: Alejandro Moncada (Universidad Nacional de Colombia) / Z. Alejandro Rincon Linares (Colombia) Fedora & linux http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit.php?members&gid=10370701652 36 members Admins/owners: Oshan Channaka Rubesinghe (Trinity College) Fedora Weekly News http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fedora-Weekly-News/33564906746 3 members Admin/owner: Pascal Calarco (Notre Dame) So this isn't a huge job to aggregate some of these. The regional groups (France and Bangadesh) are nice to encourage, IMO. Some of the smaller groups could be encouraged to disband if they aren't active, if we wanted to be a bit more hands-on with this. We could actively post on the other groups, encouraging folks to join the official page as well. - pascal Larry Cafiero wrote: > Hi, Pascal -- > > I got onto Facebook by accident several months ago -- a friend wanted > me to see something, so I signed on not thinking I was signing into FB > -- but find it to be somewhat helpful in getting the word out to > like-minded communities. > > I am in some of the Fedora groups on FB -- even bestowed administrator > status on one -- but I haven't seen the Fedora Ambassador one. Care to > point it out? > > Thanks for starting a FWN fan group -- I'm in. > > Larry Cafiero > > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 7:26 AM, Pascal Calarco wrote: > >> Paul W. Frields wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Oct 05, 2008 at 09:47:26AM -0400, Pascal Calarco wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I thought I would try to raise the visibility of FWN a bit by creating a >>>> Facebook page for FWN, as a 'communications product' type of Fan page. >>>> Not high impact, but another vector that advances the publication, the >>>> project, and the brand. >>>> Suggestions and revisions most welcome! >>>> >>>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fedora-Weekly-News/33564906746 >>>> >>>> >>> The splintering of pages on Facebook continues to be an issue with a >>> lot of FB users. Have you considered getting added to the existing >>> Fedora groups somehow, and submitting stories to those pages instead? >>> >>> http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=11454680248&ref=ts >>> http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=2205138518&ref=ts >>> >>> I don't know that much about Facebook groups and how they operate, so >>> maybe there's a way to "subscribe" your group to the others, in which >>> case it wouldn't matter whether it's separate or not. Good luck! >>> >>> >> Agreed. Search for 'Fedora' in Facebook and you get many pages with a wide >> variety of utility and authority. Perhaps a few of us in the marketing list >> could work on what Paul suggests here? Anyone up for this? There is also a >> semi-official Fedora Ambassadors page on FB that would be good if it could >> be made official. >> >> - pascal >> >> -- >> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list >> Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list >> >> > > From ben.lewis at benl.co.uk Sun Oct 5 17:46:00 2008 From: ben.lewis at benl.co.uk (Benjamin Lewis) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:46:00 +0100 Subject: FWN: Facebook page In-Reply-To: <48E8CE79.5000101@nd.edu> References: <48E8C56E.1020202@nd.edu> <20081005135508.GE467@localhost.localdomain> <48E8CE79.5000101@nd.edu> Message-ID: <48E8FD58.6050808@benl.co.uk> Pascal Calarco wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> On Sun, Oct 05, 2008 at 09:47:26AM -0400, Pascal Calarco wrote: >> >>> I thought I would try to raise the visibility of FWN a bit by >>> creating a Facebook page for FWN, as a 'communications product' type >>> of Fan page. Not high impact, but another vector that advances the >>> publication, the project, and the brand. >>> Suggestions and revisions most welcome! >>> >>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fedora-Weekly-News/33564906746 >>> >> >> The splintering of pages on Facebook continues to be an issue with a >> lot of FB users. Have you considered getting added to the existing >> Fedora groups somehow, and submitting stories to those pages instead? >> >> http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=11454680248&ref=ts >> http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=2205138518&ref=ts >> >> I don't know that much about Facebook groups and how they operate, so >> maybe there's a way to "subscribe" your group to the others, in which >> case it wouldn't matter whether it's separate or not. Good luck! >> > Agreed. Search for 'Fedora' in Facebook and you get many pages with a > wide variety of utility and authority. Perhaps a few of us in the > marketing list could work on what Paul suggests here? Anyone up for > this? There is also a semi-official Fedora Ambassadors page on FB that > would be good if it could be made official. > > - pascal > The Ambassadors Group was set up by me and does need some TLC tbh. Maybe we could have a "Social Networking" SIG or something similar to co-ordinate this and other forms - e.g. Twitter-like services? -- Benjamin Lewis ben.lewis at benl.co.uk NOTE - PGP Key Signing Temporarily Broken - NOTE Ambassador, Fedora Project - http://fedoraproject.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- http://benl.co.uk./ PGP Key: 0x647E480C "In cases of major discrepancy, it is always reality that got it wrong" -- RFC 1118 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ben_lewis.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 203 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hudsonman35 at gmail.com Sun Oct 5 21:05:35 2008 From: hudsonman35 at gmail.com (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 17:05:35 -0400 Subject: What can WE in Boston DO for Fedora 10?! Message-ID: What can I do to reach out to the folks in the Boston/Hudson, MA and tell them about Fedora 10?! Which Linux Group in Boston who uses/discusses Fedora/RHEL can I reach about doing something GRAND for Fedora 10?! I downloaded the Omega 10 distro and I decided to have that as my MAIN OS instead of Fedora only because of the Livna compatibility... I'm thinking of purchasing a cheap external 80gb hard drive and have ALL of the Linux Distros on it for me and I hope others to test out for my linux blog... I still want to publish a National Printed Linux Magazine geared not just to IT folks but for EVERYONE else as well! I have older copies of Linux Format from the UK, I am using that as my "template" for what I hope to publish... I want to hook up with other Writers who want to take the Linux plunge with me and who are willing to discuss their experiences with me. Hopefully this will pave the way toward the Magazine! Any help at all is APPRECIATED!!! Have a GREAT Launch next month!!! Markus McLaughlin linuxglobe.wordpress.com Hudson, MA, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Oct 5 21:06:38 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 14:06:38 -0700 Subject: social marketing (Re: FWN: Facebook page) In-Reply-To: <48E8FD58.6050808@benl.co.uk> References: <48E8C56E.1020202@nd.edu> <20081005135508.GE467@localhost.localdomain> <48E8CE79.5000101@nd.edu> <48E8FD58.6050808@benl.co.uk> Message-ID: <1223240798.3452.392.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 18:46 +0100, Benjamin Lewis wrote: > Maybe > we could have a "Social Networking" SIG or something similar to > co-ordinate this and other forms - e.g. Twitter-like services? Hey, you just described the Marketing group! Seriously, let's get something about coordinating and how-tos around all the social networks, from Digg to Twitter. Add it to the Marketing/Tasks. Maybe set some goals around exposure and connection for Fedora 10. For example, our focus on Digg'ing really improved in the Fedora 9 release. Anyone passionate about social networking/marketing and wants to work on that? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ben.lewis at benl.co.uk Sun Oct 5 22:12:17 2008 From: ben.lewis at benl.co.uk (Benjamin Lewis) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 23:12:17 +0100 Subject: social marketing (Re: FWN: Facebook page) In-Reply-To: <1223240798.3452.392.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <48E8C56E.1020202@nd.edu> <20081005135508.GE467@localhost.localdomain> <48E8CE79.5000101@nd.edu> <48E8FD58.6050808@benl.co.uk> <1223240798.3452.392.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <48E93BC1.2000703@benl.co.uk> Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 18:46 +0100, Benjamin Lewis wrote: > >> Maybe >> we could have a "Social Networking" SIG or something similar to >> co-ordinate this and other forms - e.g. Twitter-like services? > > Hey, you just described the Marketing group! > > Seriously, let's get something about coordinating and how-tos around all > the social networks, from Digg to Twitter. Add it to the > Marketing/Tasks. Maybe set some goals around exposure and connection > for Fedora 10. For example, our focus on Digg'ing really improved in > the Fedora 9 release. > > Anyone passionate about social networking/marketing and wants to work on > that? I would be willing to work on this. A cursory glance at the wiki turns up a list of Social Networks[1]. I believe it would be worth starting with fleshing this out (a 'complete' list of Facebook groups etc.) and assigning managers and the like. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/SocialNetworks Oh and I'll add a task too :) -- Benjamin Lewis ben.lewis at benl.co.uk NOTE - PGP Key Signing Temporarily Broken - NOTE Ambassador, Fedora Project - http://fedoraproject.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- http://benl.co.uk./ PGP Key: 0x647E480C "In cases of major discrepancy, it is always reality that got it wrong" -- RFC 1118 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ben_lewis.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 214 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pcalarco at nd.edu Sun Oct 5 22:34:46 2008 From: pcalarco at nd.edu (Pascal Calarco) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:34:46 -0400 Subject: social marketing (Re: FWN: Facebook page) In-Reply-To: <1223240798.3452.392.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <48E8C56E.1020202@nd.edu> <20081005135508.GE467@localhost.localdomain> <48E8CE79.5000101@nd.edu> <48E8FD58.6050808@benl.co.uk> <1223240798.3452.392.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <48E94106.7060205@nd.edu> Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote > Seriously, let's get something about coordinating and how-tos around all > the social networks, from Digg to Twitter. Add it to the > Marketing/Tasks. Maybe set some goals around exposure and connection > for Fedora 10. For example, our focus on Digg'ing really improved in > the Fedora 9 release. > > Anyone passionate about social networking/marketing and wants to work on > that? > I'd love to work on this as well -- count me in. - pascal From kam at kamsalisbury.com Mon Oct 6 12:20:17 2008 From: kam at kamsalisbury.com (Kam) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 05:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: social marketing (Re: FWN: Facebook page) Message-ID: <48ea0281.0308360a.39d8.ffffd0f4@mx.google.com> Count me in as well. -- Kam http://kamsalisbury.com GPG key: FAF1751E -----Original Message----- From: Pascal Calarco Subj: Re: social marketing (Re: FWN: Facebook page) Date: Sun Oct 5, 2008 6:35 pm Size: 662 bytes To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote > Seriously, let's get something about coordinating and how-tos around all > the social networks, from Digg to Twitter. Add it to the > Marketing/Tasks. Maybe set some goals around exposure and connection > for Fedora 10. For example, our focus on Digg'ing really improved in > the Fedora 9 release. > > Anyone passionate about social networking/marketing and wants to work on > that? > I'd love to work on this as well -- count me in. - pascal -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list --- message truncated --- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 6 12:49:00 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 18:19:00 +0530 Subject: Omega 10 Live CD Beta: Fedora With Added Multimedia Message-ID: <48EA093C.9090200@fedoraproject.org> Hi, A review of Omega 10 Beta. http://reddevil62-techhead.blogspot.com/2008/10/omega-10-live-cd-beta-fedora-with-added.html "Intrigued by this latest development, I decided to take Omega 10 for a spin. It proved to be an interesting experience - and changed my whole view of Fedora... I copied a couple of files over from a USB memory stick (which was detected immediately and the Nautilus file manager launched) - my MP3 files played perfectly in Rhythbox and my .AVI copy of The Eye, starring the lovely Jessica Alba, played in VLC with no problems at all. By now, I was grinning - and Fedora users will know why." Rahul From h4xor2k4 at gmail.com Mon Oct 6 13:37:57 2008 From: h4xor2k4 at gmail.com (PYROX) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 14:37:57 +0100 Subject: Omega 10 Live CD Beta: Fedora With Added Multimedia In-Reply-To: <48EA093C.9090200@fedoraproject.org> References: <48EA093C.9090200@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <498e315d0810060637x3642e8edn7d3c3161d6471b76@mail.gmail.com> That is Awsome. I am tired of Having to install all the plugins to let me play my MP3's All we need now is to have GTKPod installed by Default and Fedora Will have alot more users. The MP3 Encoder is open source anyway so why not? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 6 13:45:13 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:15:13 +0530 Subject: Omega 10 Live CD Beta: Fedora With Added Multimedia In-Reply-To: <498e315d0810060637x3642e8edn7d3c3161d6471b76@mail.gmail.com> References: <48EA093C.9090200@fedoraproject.org> <498e315d0810060637x3642e8edn7d3c3161d6471b76@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48EA1669.7070804@fedoraproject.org> PYROX wrote: > That is Awsome. I am tired of Having to install all the plugins to let > me play my MP3's All we need now is to have GTKPod installed by Default > and Fedora Will have alot more users. The MP3 Encoder is open source > anyway so why not? This is a common confusion. Fedora excludes both proprietary software as well as software that is free and open source but has other potential issues such as patents. If I may, let me quote myself from the article: "There is a difference between proprietary software and potentially patent encumbered software. The former is a philosophical issue while the latter is a legal issue (at least for distributions based in the US). Putting them in the same bucket is not appropriate. Omega does not install proprietary applications or drivers. What it does install are codecs and multimedia players, all of them are under free and open source software. To make this distinction clear, rpmfusion has two different repositories - free and non-free. When Omega switches to using rpmfusion (livna will have a migration path before shutting down), the software components installed by default will be from the free repository. The non-free repository will be available but nothing from there is installed out of the box. This is for two reasons. There is a potential legal issue with bundling proprietary drivers. There is also the technical issue that installing drivers for hardware when it is not required causes breakage..." So the bottom line is that non-free software affects everybody. Patent encumbrances are region specific. Rahul From fugolini at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 6 14:25:28 2008 From: fugolini at fedoraproject.org (Francesco Ugolini) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 16:25:28 +0200 Subject: What can WE in Boston DO for Fedora 10?! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2008/10/5 Markus McLaughlin : > What can I do to reach out to the folks in the Boston/Hudson, MA and tell > them about Fedora 10?! As ambassador, I can suggest to hold an event, maybe an Install Fest or a Fedora Fest. I suggest you to see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/Organization and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassador That's what I can say from my side. Best regards Francesco Ugolini From loupgaroublond at gmail.com Mon Oct 6 16:14:16 2008 From: loupgaroublond at gmail.com (Yaakov Nemoy) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 12:14:16 -0400 Subject: "Fedora Remix" etymology In-Reply-To: <604aa7910810021109m36adf8b8nd079b28424536707@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081002165842.GI15653@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <48E504FB.5050408@redhat.com> <604aa7910810021109m36adf8b8nd079b28424536707@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f692fec0810060914g652c2822la631a2fcba90b9c4@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Jack Aboutboul wrote: >> I remember it because I came up with the phraseology because I >> was working a lot with creative commons at the time. >> >> Max Spevack can confirm. > > > Okay Spin Doctor, how do we actually communicate that fact without it > sounding reactionary? Didn't Mo' put together some banner art work > for F7 that used the terminology? > > Can we resurrect those images and re-task them to for the new > trademark campaign as well as providing visual hints of the pedigree > of thought dating back to F7? There are pages with chronological views on the artwork of Fedora, complete with screenshots and related things. Maybe we should do the same for remixing. Try to contact all the people who have done remixes of some kind, and get a chronological view on this, starting with the OLPC and moving on to the CC remix, etc... Perhaps even with statements from companies that do internal mixing. Then, we need to make sure it gets some viewage, though I'm not sure about how to go about that. This will at least give us a serious talking point about Fedora and remixing without having to be rude to an obnoxious Ubuntu fan who wants to claim that Canonical made the phrase up. -Yaakov From aacosta at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 6 18:28:18 2008 From: aacosta at fedoraproject.org (Alejandro Acosta) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 12:28:18 -0600 Subject: social marketing (Re: FWN: Facebook page) In-Reply-To: <1223240798.3452.392.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <48E8C56E.1020202@nd.edu> <20081005135508.GE467@localhost.localdomain> <48E8CE79.5000101@nd.edu> <48E8FD58.6050808@benl.co.uk> <1223240798.3452.392.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <6ad0ab20810061128o3435e76if215623088e5c9fa@mail.gmail.com> +1 Only 1 thing to add: I've been using FB for a while and actually joined some Fedora groups; Ambassadors was the latest. I think we could also create a network -not only a group- of Fedora fans, to enforce our presence. Just like there are networks for RedHat, IBM or Sun Microsystems or countries, just to mention some of them, we could create our own network and "engross" our membership. I don't know if I transmitted the right message but I guess that what I finally wanted to express is that networks highlight the feeling of "belonging" Just a thought - Alejandro Acosta 2008/10/5 Karsten 'quaid' Wade > > On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 18:46 +0100, Benjamin Lewis wrote: > > > Maybe > > we could have a "Social Networking" SIG or something similar to > > co-ordinate this and other forms - e.g. Twitter-like services? > > Hey, you just described the Marketing group! > > Seriously, let's get something about coordinating and how-tos around all > the social networks, from Digg to Twitter. Add it to the > Marketing/Tasks. Maybe set some goals around exposure and connection > for Fedora 10. For example, our focus on Digg'ing really improved in > the Fedora 9 release. > > Anyone passionate about social networking/marketing and wants to work on > that? > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, Community Gardener > Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com > Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org > gpg key : AD0E0C41 > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 6 19:43:02 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 12:43:02 -0700 Subject: talking points for F10 In-Reply-To: <1223032161.18574.0.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> References: <1222976393.3452.202.camel@calliope.phig.org> <48E528B3.9090106@webpath.net> <1223032161.18574.0.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> Message-ID: <1223322182.3452.437.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, 2008-10-03 at 13:09 +0200, Steven Moix wrote: > On Thu, 2008-10-02 at 16:01 -0400, Karlie Robinson wrote: > > Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > > What should we have in that talking point list, with what language > > > around it? > > > > > > > > I would suggest highlighting significant technology improvements. > > Especially technology that is an advancements to Linux as a whole. > > That's exactly what we focused on with the F10 Beta release > announcement, I totally agree. For the talking points to be most effective, they need to give enough to build a narrative on. Often, technologists produce a list of "technology name, version, functionality" that forces each person to construct their own narrative from scratch. This is the challenge of the talking points, to write four to six paragraphs that: stand-alone; hang together; reference new technologies; tell an important Fedora story. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 7 00:16:26 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 05:46:26 +0530 Subject: FUEL: An initiative in language standardization via collaboration Message-ID: <48EAAA5A.1020608@fedoraproject.org> Hi, http://www.linux.com/feature/149038 "FUEL (Frequently Used Entries for Localization) aims to solve the problem of inconsistency and lack of standardization in computer software translation in a new and unique way. Initiated by Red Hat, the project is trying to give a better experience to end users of a localized desktop by resolving the issues of standardization and inconsistency." "FUEL is an attempt to standardize terms for the whole desktop instead of concentrating on different applications separately. At present, FUEL incorporates representative entries from the GNOME desktop, OpenOffice.org, Firefox browser, Evolution email client, and Pidgin instant messenger, so that it can have at least all the entries that a normal user uses very frequently. Later, on demand from communities, FUEL can incorporate more applications in its list from different projects." Rahul From mspevack at redhat.com Tue Oct 7 00:36:47 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 20:36:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: social marketing (Re: FWN: Facebook page) In-Reply-To: <1223240798.3452.392.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <48E8C56E.1020202@nd.edu> <20081005135508.GE467@localhost.localdomain> <48E8CE79.5000101@nd.edu> <48E8FD58.6050808@benl.co.uk> <1223240798.3452.392.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > Seriously, let's get something about coordinating and how-tos around > all the social networks, from Digg to Twitter. Add it to the > Marketing/Tasks. Maybe set some goals around exposure and connection > for Fedora 10. For example, our focus on Digg'ing really improved in > the Fedora 9 release. > > Anyone passionate about social networking/marketing and wants to work > on that? +1 on doing this in the Fedora Marketing group and *not* creating Yet Another SIG. --Max From mspevack at redhat.com Tue Oct 7 00:36:51 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 20:36:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Opening RHM/news.fp.o In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > So, what was the result of the conversations we had about this? I've been too much on planes and trains and not enough on mailing lists. Did we ever *have* a public conversation about this? Perhaps it was in the last Fedora Marketing meeting. I'll have to go back and check the meeting minutes. --Max From ben.lewis at benl.co.uk Tue Oct 7 06:55:21 2008 From: ben.lewis at benl.co.uk (Benjamin Lewis) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 07:55:21 +0100 Subject: social marketing (Re: FWN: Facebook page) In-Reply-To: References: <48E8C56E.1020202@nd.edu> <20081005135508.GE467@localhost.localdomain> <48E8CE79.5000101@nd.edu> <48E8FD58.6050808@benl.co.uk> <1223240798.3452.392.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <48EB07D9.4090404@benl.co.uk> Max Spevack wrote: > On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > >> Seriously, let's get something about coordinating and how-tos around >> all the social networks, from Digg to Twitter. Add it to the >> Marketing/Tasks. Maybe set some goals around exposure and connection >> for Fedora 10. For example, our focus on Digg'ing really improved in >> the Fedora 9 release. >> >> Anyone passionate about social networking/marketing and wants to work >> on that? > > +1 on doing this in the Fedora Marketing group and *not* creating Yet > Another SIG. > > --Max > Fair enough. Would it be better to create a todo list or something similar as part of Marketing/SocialNetworks or as a new page Marketing/SocialNetworks/Todo? -- Benjamin Lewis ben.lewis at benl.co.uk Ambassador, Fedora Project - http://fedoraproject.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- http://benl.co.uk./ PGP Key: 0x647E480C "In cases of major discrepancy, it is always reality that got it wrong" -- RFC 1118 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ben_lewis.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 203 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 7 08:29:20 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:59:20 +0530 Subject: Five second boot mod for ASUS Eee PC Message-ID: <48EB1DE0.1080208@fedoraproject.org> Hi, http://www.slashgear.com/five-second-boot-mod-for-asus-eee-pc-0618430/ "Netbooks would be a whole lot more believable as companion devices if they switched on as fast as, say, a smartphone or PDA. However the combination of Intel?s Atom and generally wheezing specs tend to make starting-up - or resuming from standby - measure more around the one minute mark than anything less. Two Intel engineers might be looking to change all that, though; at a recent Linux conference, they demonstrated an ASUS Eee PC that could boot to a Fedora desktop in just five seconds" Rahul From vaish.rajan at gmail.com Tue Oct 7 18:49:20 2008 From: vaish.rajan at gmail.com (Rajan Vaish) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 11:49:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <332633213.1911891.1223405360221.JavaMail.app@esv4-com09.prod> LinkedIn ------------ For, Hi,Apart from adding you on my Gmail Address book,I'd like to add you to my professional network on Linkein too.Thanks .. - Rajan Learn more: https://www.linkedin.com/e/isd/374071757/7-eqytqW/ ------------------------------------------ What is LinkedIn and why should you join? http://learn.linkedin.com/what-is-linkedin/ ------ (c) 2008, LinkedIn Corporation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mspevack at redhat.com Tue Oct 7 18:55:14 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 14:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: social marketing (Re: FWN: Facebook page) In-Reply-To: <48EB07D9.4090404@benl.co.uk> References: <48E8C56E.1020202@nd.edu> <20081005135508.GE467@localhost.localdomain> <48E8CE79.5000101@nd.edu> <48E8FD58.6050808@benl.co.uk> <1223240798.3452.392.camel@calliope.phig.org> <48EB07D9.4090404@benl.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Oct 2008, Benjamin Lewis wrote: > Fair enough. Would it be better to create a todo list or something > similar as part of Marketing/SocialNetworks or as a new page > Marketing/SocialNetworks/Todo? I just think it would be wise to have this an an agenda item in our larger Fedora Marketing meetings, to keep as many people in the loop as possible. Why not make it part of the master Fedora Marketing to do list? Ultimately, whatever you think makes the most sense is fine. --Max From wonderer4711 at gmx.de Tue Oct 7 20:18:10 2008 From: wonderer4711 at gmx.de (wonderer) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 22:18:10 +0200 Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: <332633213.1911891.1223405360221.JavaMail.app@esv4-com09.prod> References: <332633213.1911891.1223405360221.JavaMail.app@esv4-com09.prod> Message-ID: <48EBC402.7030409@gmx.de> Hy Rajan, nice idea, but I get the following message: The invitation was sent to fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com. Please sign in as this user. Email address: fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com Maybe you clicked on the wrong Button or so... A short reference to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/SocialNetworks maybe enough. best regards Henrik Heigl - wonderer at fedoraproject.org Rajan Vaish schrieb: > > > LinkedIn > > For, > > Hi,Apart from adding you on my Gmail Address book,I'd like to add you > to my professional network on Linkein too.Thanks .. > > - Rajan > > Learn more: > https://www.linkedin.com/e/isd/374071757/7-eqytqW/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > What is LinkedIn and why should you join? > > > ? 2008, LinkedIn Corporation > From dev at nigelj.com Wed Oct 8 03:29:48 2008 From: dev at nigelj.com (Nigel Jones) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:29:48 +1300 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season Message-ID: <1223436588.3242.428.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> Apologies in advance for digging up an old subject but I only just remembered about this discussion and I'd like to weigh in a few thoughts/notes... Jeff Spaleta wrote: > Okay lets agree on a timeline for when we have to think about going > with a wiki based plan B for candidate Q/A. I know Nigel is > superhuman, but things happen, and if the functionality for the voting > doesn't make it in time I don't want to have this block on pushing him > to get it done. And I don't want to drive people to two different > locations, if I can avoid it. > > If the the voting app doesn't have the Q/A functionality by Nov. 7 > should we just go ahead and tell people to use the wiki for Q/A? > it would help if we could firm up the actual election date, but the > actual timeframe (Dec vs Jan) seems to depend on whether F10 slips > too much or not. I'm currently working on the elections application now to do this, I may not get it done this week, but I can sure try :) Unlike Jeff's suggestion I'm not superhuman, but I'll try my best to do it by November 7 :) Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> As a start is there a general need to raise the awareness of the >> election and voting process we are using? >> Can we generate general interest material covering topics like: >> Why vote? How do you qualify for voting? What's this range voting stuff? > > Yes. I'd suggest this is something we should tackle *now*. I'll even > volunteer to write something tomorrow and bring it to the mktg meeting > tomorrow for feedback. This is actually something I've been working on myself @ http://nigelj.fedorapeople.org/feg It is _very_ raw and I still have not imported the XML into git (I should the repo is there and ready), if anyone from Marketing wants to help let me know, I'll also post a note to fedora-docs-list soon (I should note that it needs a massive update before it'll be correct for the new election) I have one final request for now... If there is ANYTHING you can think of that can make the elections experience better for candidates, voters or anyone in general, please file an RFE at https://fedorahosted.org/elections after checking that someone hasn't beaten you to it (https://fedorahosted.org/elections/report/1). It'll make it a lot easier for me, not having to guess what people want, and if I can do it in time, it should appear for the Board elections! Cheers, Nigel Jones Elections Guru (Turns out that it helps to send from the right account...) -- Nigel Jones From frankly3d at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 08:26:27 2008 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 09:26:27 +0100 Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: <48EBC402.7030409@gmx.de> References: <332633213.1911891.1223405360221.JavaMail.app@esv4-com09.prod> <48EBC402.7030409@gmx.de> Message-ID: <1223454387.2878.0.camel@frank-01> On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 22:18 +0200, wonderer wrote: > Hy Rajan, > > nice idea, but I get the following message: > > The invitation was sent to fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com. Please sign > in as this user. > Email address: fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com I figured the original post was spam. Frank > -- gpg id EB547226 Revoked Forgot Password :( aMSN: Frankly3D http://www.frankly3d.com From wariola at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 8 09:31:00 2008 From: wariola at fedoraproject.org (syamsul anuar) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 17:31:00 +0800 Subject: FOSS.my 2008 Message-ID: <6c8846340810080231j18295978tbd7ba2b722a18ad7@mail.gmail.com> Greetings All, The Open Source Community Malaysia will be hosting FOSS.my 2008 on the 8th and 9th of November 2008 (more info http://foss.my) to showcase the best of Open Source in Malaysia and the world. All of you are welcome to attend this event and hope to see you there! Fedora Ambassador Malaysia team will be hosting a booth during the event. As this is our first time doing any kind of event (as we are a quite small team compared to Ubuntu Malaysia team) we would like some suggestions, Live Media's (100-200 pcs would do) and any kind of assistance for the event. We are also unclear regarding the procedure to request any amount of money or other type of sponsorship / CDs. Our idea as of now is selling and giving away T-Shirts, Live USB demo / Revisor and some install fest. Would like more idea from the community regarding this matter. Kindly pls assist. -- .: war|ola :. Use Fedora Linux for better computing experience http://fedoraproject.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rtlm10 at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 10:38:29 2008 From: rtlm10 at gmail.com (Russell Harrison) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 06:38:29 -0400 Subject: Five second boot mod for ASUS Eee PC In-Reply-To: <48EB1DE0.1080208@fedoraproject.org> References: <48EB1DE0.1080208@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1ed4a0130810080338g167d92d1pb61789a6cc92d3b3@mail.gmail.com> That's pretty slick. Glad to see they built on top of the groundwork already laid to improve boot times. I can't wait to see what happens when our guys start replicating and/or improving on the lessons learned from the patch. Super fast booting in F11?! I do hope so. On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 4:29 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi, > > http://www.slashgear.com/five-second-boot-mod-for-asus-eee-pc-0618430/ > > "Netbooks would be a whole lot more believable as companion devices if they > switched on as fast as, say, a smartphone or PDA. However the combination of > Intel's Atom and generally wheezing specs tend to make starting-up - or > resuming from standby - measure more around the one minute mark than > anything less. Two Intel engineers might be looking to change all that, > though; at a recent Linux conference, they demonstrated an ASUS Eee PC that > could boot to a Fedora desktop in just five seconds" > > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From kwade at redhat.com Thu Oct 9 19:41:14 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:41:14 -0700 Subject: Opening RHM/news.fp.o In-Reply-To: References: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1223581274.5964.42.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 20:36 -0400, Max Spevack wrote: > On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > > So, what was the result of the conversations we had about this? > > I've been too much on planes and trains and not enough on mailing lists. > Did we ever *have* a public conversation about this? Perhaps it was in > the last Fedora Marketing meeting. I'll have to go back and check the > meeting minutes. Yes, we did discuss in one of the meetings a few weeks ago. No, I don't know of an update. I'll ask around. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 10 07:42:37 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 08:42:37 +0100 Subject: Opening RHM/news.fp.o In-Reply-To: <1223581274.5964.42.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> <1223581274.5964.42.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <507738ef0810100042m477cfe1ey43391d11f810036f@mail.gmail.com> > Yes, we did discuss in one of the meetings a few weeks ago. > > No, I don't know of an update. I'll ask around. Cheers. In the mean time I'd like to suggest that we set up a wordpress.com blog and use that to begin writing content that would appear on news.fp.o. I know we'll get there eventually with a Fedora/Red Hat hosted solution, but I think just getting started now will be well worth the effort. Unless anybody has any problems with this, and I'll wait 24/48 hours, I'll set up a non-personal account on wordpress.com and a blog, write some initial content, map out a week's worth of posts, and add it to planet. Jon From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Fri Oct 10 12:42:55 2008 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:42:55 -0300 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora Message-ID: <48EF4DCF.4010601@projetofedora.org> Hello Guys! Read this bad news: http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;1474805050;fp;16;fpid;1 This is happening frequently. I think we will have to revise some things within the project, particularly the creation of a Legacy project or a Fedora LTS. The brazilian government, one of the biggest Fedora Case of the world is changing from Fedora/ Red Hat to Ubuntu/Debian. We need to think and create a solution to give support by a long time or the fedora user will decrease! My 0,02 -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America http://www.proyectofedora.org From oliver at linux-kernel.at Fri Oct 10 13:03:11 2008 From: oliver at linux-kernel.at (Oliver Falk) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:03:11 +0200 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF4DCF.4010601@projetofedora.org> References: <48EF4DCF.4010601@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <48EF528F.4020602@linux-kernel.at> Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > Hello Guys! > > Read this bad news: > > http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;1474805050;fp;16;fpid;1 > > This is happening frequently. I think we will have to revise some things > within the project, particularly the creation of a Legacy project or a > Fedora LTS. > > The brazilian government, one of the biggest Fedora Case of the world is > changing from Fedora/ Red Hat to Ubuntu/Debian. > > We need to think and create a solution to give support by a long time or > the fedora user will decrease! {quote} Wikipedia could just as easily have made the switchover to all Red Hat, but that would have cost more money, he said. "It would seem to me that if money weren't an issue here, there wouldn't be anything keeping them from upgrading everything to Red Hat." {quote} Hm. And why then not to Fedora? Or CentOS (sorry!). Who also thinks, that they will face the same problem (multiple versions) with Ubunto in a few years (again)? If they still had Red Hat 9 servers, they are simply having a problem with their operating system life cycle... my 0.2 -of From bochecha at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 10 13:13:58 2008 From: bochecha at fedoraproject.org (Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:13:58 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF4DCF.4010601@projetofedora.org> References: <48EF4DCF.4010601@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <58200.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223644438.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> > Hello Guys! > > Read this bad news: > > http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;1474805050;fp;16;fpid;1 > > This is happening frequently. I think we will have to revise some things > within the project, particularly the creation of a Legacy project or a > Fedora LTS. There is a Fedora LTS. It's called RHEL or CentOS. > The brazilian government, one of the biggest Fedora Case of the world is > changing from Fedora/ Red Hat to Ubuntu/Debian. > > We need to think and create a solution to give support by a long time or > the fedora user will decrease! Or maybe Fedora is not a suitable system for production use. Think about it: updating all your servers (and in the case of Wikipedia there must be hundreds) each year ? Do you know what system the Fedora Infrastructure is using ? At least for Fedora People, that's CentOS, not Fedora (and the contrary would be really surprising). ---------- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) French Fedora Ambassador ---------- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin From steven.moix at axianet.ch Fri Oct 10 12:54:06 2008 From: steven.moix at axianet.ch (Steven Moix) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:54:06 +0200 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF4DCF.4010601@projetofedora.org> References: <48EF4DCF.4010601@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <1223643246.13880.1.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> On Fri, 2008-10-10 at 09:42 -0300, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > Hello Guys! > > Read this bad news: > > http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;1474805050;fp;16;fpid;1 > > This is happening frequently. I think we will have to revise some things > within the project, particularly the creation of a Legacy project or a > Fedora LTS. > > The brazilian government, one of the biggest Fedora Case of the world is > changing from Fedora/ Red Hat to Ubuntu/Debian. > > We need to think and create a solution to give support by a long time or > the fedora user will decrease! > > My 0,02 Frankly, that's what RHEL/CentOS are for. Taking Fedora as a long term server solution was a mistake in their side IMO. Fedora Legacy exited and died due to a lack of interest. Steven From gdk at redhat.com Fri Oct 10 13:30:45 2008 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg Dekoenigsberg) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1223643246.13880.1.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> References: <48EF4DCF.4010601@projetofedora.org> <1223643246.13880.1.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 2008, Steven Moix wrote: > On Fri, 2008-10-10 at 09:42 -0300, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: >> Hello Guys! >> >> Read this bad news: >> >> http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;1474805050;fp;16;fpid;1 >> >> This is happening frequently. I think we will have to revise some things >> within the project, particularly the creation of a Legacy project or a >> Fedora LTS. >> >> The brazilian government, one of the biggest Fedora Case of the world is >> changing from Fedora/ Red Hat to Ubuntu/Debian. >> >> We need to think and create a solution to give support by a long time or >> the fedora user will decrease! >> >> My 0,02 > > Frankly, that's what RHEL/CentOS are for. Taking Fedora as a long term > server solution was a mistake in their side IMO. Fedora Legacy exited > and died due to a lack of interest. To me, this is not a change that is just "decided upon". The admins there are plenty smart and know how to mix and match CentOS, Fedora or RHEL to suit them. This feels like a targeted "customer acquisition" by Canonical. If you read the press release, it reads like a classic "customer success story". "Gee whiz, look at how much easier it is to manage Ubuntu!" Which is hogwash, of course. But kudos to Canonical for picking a good high-profile project to take away from us. --g From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Fri Oct 10 13:51:11 2008 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:51:11 -0300 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <58200.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223644438.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> References: <48EF4DCF.4010601@projetofedora.org> <58200.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223644438.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> Message-ID: <48EF5DCF.7090702@projetofedora.org> Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) escreveu: >> Hello Guys! >> >> Read this bad news: >> >> http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;1474805050;fp;16;fpid;1 >> >> This is happening frequently. I think we will have to revise some things >> within the project, particularly the creation of a Legacy project or a >> Fedora LTS. > > There is a Fedora LTS. It's called RHEL or CentOS. So, we are working here to recommend Red Hat and CENTOS ?? That's the question, Ubuntu has a LTS, Fedora don't! That's the main problem of the Fedora Project. Today, we have many users! With this idea to recommend Centos and Red Hat, we will have a lot of users in the future ? Thinking in this way, we will hear frequently "Fedora is a beta tester version to add and improve technologies for Red Hat EL ". For me and for marketing, it isn't a great decision! Now i'm presenting lectures in all Brazilian states and i can't talk about this.. USE CENTOS OR RHEL. I have to recommend Fedora. I'm here to represent and spread fedora, not Centos or Red hat EL. > >> The brazilian government, one of the biggest Fedora Case of the world is >> changing from Fedora/ Red Hat to Ubuntu/Debian. >> >> We need to think and create a solution to give support by a long time or >> the fedora user will decrease! > > Or maybe Fedora is not a suitable system for production use. Think about > it: updating all your servers (and in the case of Wikipedia there must be > hundreds) each year ? > > Do you know what system the Fedora Infrastructure is using ? At least for > Fedora People, that's CentOS, not Fedora (and the contrary would be really > surprising). > > > ---------- > > Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) > French Fedora Ambassador > > ---------- > "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin > -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America http://www.proyectofedora.org From Pablo.Iranzo at redhat.com Fri Oct 10 14:01:01 2008 From: Pablo.Iranzo at redhat.com (Pablo Iranzo =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F3mez?=) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:01:01 +0200 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF5DCF.7090702@projetofedora.org> References: <48EF4DCF.4010601@projetofedora.org> <58200.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223644438.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF5DCF.7090702@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <1223647261.32148.32.camel@iranzo.users.redhat.com> Ola Rodrigo El vie, 10-10-2008 a las 10:51 -0300, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira escribi?: > Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) escreveu: > >> Hello Guys! > >> > >> Read this bad news: > >> > >> http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;1474805050;fp;16;fpid;1 > >> > >> This is happening frequently. I think we will have to revise some things > >> within the project, particularly the creation of a Legacy project or a > >> Fedora LTS. > > > > There is a Fedora LTS. It's called RHEL or CentOS. > > So, we are working here to recommend Red Hat and CENTOS ?? > > That's the question, Ubuntu has a LTS, Fedora don't! That's the main > problem of the Fedora Project. > > Today, we have many users! With this idea to recommend Centos and Red > Hat, we will have a lot of users in the future ? > > Thinking in this way, we will hear frequently "Fedora is a beta tester > version to add and improve technologies for Red Hat EL ". One of the best phrases I've hear for defining this is: "Fedora is the best of today, RHEL is the best of the following seven years" I don't think Fedora as a Beta, I use it on my system without any problem, but from the sysadmin point of view, it's rather difficult to catch with all updates and management that a system requires. What a sysadmin wants is a 'stable' environment, not in the meaning of crashes, but in the sense of 'less frequent changes'. > For me and for marketing, it isn't a great decision! > > Now i'm presenting lectures in all Brazilian states and i can't talk > about this.. USE CENTOS OR RHEL. I have to recommend Fedora. > > I'm here to represent and spread fedora, not Centos or Red hat EL. Completely agree with you, the point here is Fedora. Regards Pablo -- Pablo Iranzo G?mez (Pablo.Iranzo at redhat.com) RHCE/RHCSP/RHCSS Global Profesional Services Consultant Spain Phone: +34 645 01 01 49 (CET/CEST) GnuPG KeyID: 0xFAD3CF0D -- Inscrita en el Reg. Mercantil de Madrid ? C.I.F. B-82 65 79 41 Directores: Michael Cunningham, Charlie Peters y David Owens Direcci?n Registrada: Red Hat S.L., C/ Velazquez 63, Madrid 28001, Espa?a Direcci?n contacto: C/Jose Bardasano Baos, 9, Edif. Gorbea 3, Planta 3?D, 28016 Madrid, Spain -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Esta parte del mensaje est? firmada digitalmente URL: From kam at kamsalisbury.com Fri Oct 10 14:06:00 2008 From: kam at kamsalisbury.com (Kam) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:06:00 -0400 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora Message-ID: <48ef618b.4b27360a.204d.0926@mx.google.com> +1 -- Kam http://kamsalisbury.com GPG key: FAF1751E -----Original Message----- From: Steven Moix Subj: Re: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora Date: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:27 am Size: 974 bytes To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base On Fri, 2008-10-10 at 09:42 -0300, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > Hello Guys! > > Read this bad news: > > http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;1474805050;fp;16;fpid;1 > > This is happening frequently. I think we will have to revise some things > within the project, particularly the creation of a Legacy project or a > Fedora LTS. > > The brazilian government, one of the biggest Fedora Case of the world is > changing from Fedora/ Red Hat to Ubuntu/Debian. > > We need to think and create a solution to give support by a long time or > the fedora user will decrease! > > My 0,02 Frankly, that's what RHEL/CentOS are for. Taking Fedora as a long term server solution was a mistake in their side IMO. Fedora Legacy exited and died due to a lack of interest. Steven -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list --- message truncated --- From steven.moix at axianet.ch Fri Oct 10 14:11:01 2008 From: steven.moix at axianet.ch (Steven Moix) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:11:01 +0200 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF5DCF.7090702@projetofedora.org> References: <48EF4DCF.4010601@projetofedora.org> <58200.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223644438.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF5DCF.7090702@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <1223647861.19661.4.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> On Fri, 2008-10-10 at 10:51 -0300, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > So, we are working here to recommend Red Hat and CENTOS ?? > > That's the question, Ubuntu has a LTS, Fedora don't! That's the main > problem of the Fedora Project. > > Today, we have many users! With this idea to recommend Centos and Red > Hat, we will have a lot of users in the future ? > > Thinking in this way, we will hear frequently "Fedora is a beta tester > version to add and improve technologies for Red Hat EL ". > > For me and for marketing, it isn't a great decision! > > Now i'm presenting lectures in all Brazilian states and i can't talk > about this.. USE CENTOS OR RHEL. I have to recommend Fedora. > > I'm here to represent and spread fedora, not Centos or Red hat EL. Represent and Spread != Absolutely want it everywhere This very problem is exactly why RedHat and Fedora split at the RedHat Linux 9 stage. I don't see any solution to that apart educating people that Fedora is not a RHEL beta. IMO, LTS is too much effort for too little. http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/09/16/video-the-history-of-fedora/ Steven From kam at kamsalisbury.com Fri Oct 10 14:20:00 2008 From: kam at kamsalisbury.com (Kam) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:20:00 -0400 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora Message-ID: <48ef64d2.38652c0a.64d5.6ada@mx.google.com> I am hesitant to use the word reccommend concerning a specific operating system. Educate is a better word when the focus is about choice. Everyone is different and likewise their solutions to technology problems will be different. it should be our first goal, when discussing Linux, to educate that there are alternatives - Fedora being one of them. My .02 -- Kam http://kamsalisbury.com GPG key: FAF1751E -----Original Message----- From: Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira Subj: Re: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora Date: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:52 am Size: 2K To: bochecha at fedoraproject.org;For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) escreveu: >> Hello Guys! >> >> Read this bad news: >> >> http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;1474805050;fp;16;fpid;1 >> >> This is happening frequently. I think we will have to revise some things >> within the project, particularly the creation of a Legacy project or a >> Fedora LTS. > > There is a Fedora LTS. It's called RHEL or CentOS. So, we are working here to recommend Red Hat and CENTOS ?? That's the question, Ubuntu has a LTS, Fedora don't! That's the main problem of the Fedora Project. Today, we have many users! With this idea to recommend Centos and Red Hat, we will have a lot of users in the future ? Thinking in this way, we will hear frequently "Fedora is a beta tester version to add and improve technologies for Red Hat EL ". For me and for marketing, it isn't a great decision! Now i'm presenting lectures in all Brazilian states and i can't talk about this.. USE CENTOS OR RHEL. I have to recommend Fedora. I'm here to represent and spread fedora, not Centos or Red hat EL. > >> The brazilian government, one of the biggest Fedora Case of the world is >> changing from Fedora/ Red Hat to Ubuntu/Debian. >> >> We need to think and create a solution to give support by a long time or >> the fedora user will decrease! > > Or maybe Fedora is not a suitable system for production use. Think about > it: updating all your servers (and in the case of Wikipedia there must be > hundreds) each year ? > > Do you know what system the Fedora Infrastructure is using ? At least for > Fedora People, that's CentOS, not Fedora (and the contrary would be really > surprising). > > > ---------- > > Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) > French Fedora Ambassador > > ---------- > "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin > -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America http://www.proyectofedora.org -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list --- message truncated --- From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Fri Oct 10 14:27:40 2008 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:27:40 -0300 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48ef618b.4b27360a.204d.0926@mx.google.com> References: <48ef618b.4b27360a.204d.0926@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <48EF665C.9030007@projetofedora.org> Kam escreveu: > +1 > > -- > Kam > http://kamsalisbury.com > GPG key: FAF1751E > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steven Moix > Subj: Re: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora > Date: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:27 am > Size: 974 bytes > To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base > > On Fri, 2008-10-10 at 09:42 -0300, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: >> Hello Guys! >> >> Read this bad news: >> >> http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;1474805050;fp;16;fpid;1 >> >> This is happening frequently. I think we will have to revise some things >> within the project, particularly the creation of a Legacy project or a >> Fedora LTS. >> >> The brazilian government, one of the biggest Fedora Case of the world is >> changing from Fedora/ Red Hat to Ubuntu/Debian. >> >> We need to think and create a solution to give support by a long time or >> the fedora user will decrease! >> >> My 0,02 > > Frankly, that's what RHEL/CentOS are for. Taking Fedora as a long term > server solution was a mistake in their side IMO. Fedora Legacy exited > and died due to a lack of interest. > > Steven > We are talking not exclusively about Fedora for Servers, here in Brazil, SERPRO and others companies and government departments are migrating Desktops Fedora to Desktops Ubuntu. You got it ? SERPRO (Brazilian Government IT Department) has more than 9.000 desktops running Fedora (in all brazilian states) and now is migrating to Ubuntu, because is impossible to migrate every year to other Fedora Release. With the short time support is impossible to work and use Fedora. So, thinking in this way, Bill gates is correct! "We think of (FEDORA) as a competitor in the student and hobbiest market, but i really don't think in the commercial market we'll see it in any significant way" Bill gates So we have to say that ?? - If you are a Geek, a student or developer, you can use Fedora otherwise, you have to use Centos or Red Hat EL. Great marketing guys!! With this idea we will conquest the world!! Sorry, but, for me it don't make sense! I can't work in a project in a cooperative way, contributing and cooperating with something that's not to be used in a serious way. -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America http://www.proyectofedora.org From bochecha at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 10 14:30:57 2008 From: bochecha at fedoraproject.org (Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:30:57 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF5DCF.7090702@projetofedora.org> References: <48EF4DCF.4010601@projetofedora.org> <58200.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223644438.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF5DCF.7090702@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <50482.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223649057.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> > Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) escreveu: >>> Hello Guys! >>> Read this bad news: >>> http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;1474805050;fp;16;fpid;1 This is happening frequently. I think we will have to revise some things >>> within the project, particularly the creation of a Legacy project or a Fedora LTS. >> There is a Fedora LTS. It's called RHEL or CentOS. > > So, we are working here to recommend Red Hat and CENTOS ?? > > That's the question, Ubuntu has a LTS, Fedora don't! That's the main problem of the Fedora Project. And Ubuntu wants to take over the desktop / server market. Fedora doesn't. And Ubuntu is trying to make profit. Fedora isn't. And we could go on playing "find the differencies" for a long time ;) > Today, we have many users! With this idea to recommend Centos and Red Hat, we will have a lot of users in the future ? > > Thinking in this way, we will hear frequently "Fedora is a beta tester version to add and improve technologies for Red Hat EL ". Fedora is a lab, trying to push forward the latest and greatest free and open source technologies (not RHEL, but all upstream and downstream). How can you move fast if you have to maintain releases for a long time ? > For me and for marketing, it isn't a great decision! > > Now i'm presenting lectures in all Brazilian states and i can't talk about this.. USE CENTOS OR RHEL. I have to recommend Fedora. > > I'm here to represent and spread fedora, not Centos or Red hat EL. So am I. But selling the wrong tool for a use case will only make bad publicity for this tool, even if it's great in other use cases. ---------- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) French Fedora Ambassador ---------- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin From amrossi at linux.it Fri Oct 10 14:39:39 2008 From: amrossi at linux.it (Andrea Modesto Rossi) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:39:39 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora Message-ID: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> On Ven, 10 Ottobre 2008 4:27 pm, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > because is impossible to migrate every year to other Fedora Release. > With the short time support is impossible to work and use Fedora. I don't understand the problem...for LTS there is RHEL ;-) I Like this slogan: <<"Fedora is the best of today, RHEL is the best of the following seven years">>. Best Regards, -- Andrea Modesto Rossi Fedora Ambassador https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AndreaModestoRossi From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Fri Oct 10 14:45:05 2008 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:45:05 -0300 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> Message-ID: <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> Andrea Modesto Rossi escreveu: > I don't understand the problem...for LTS there is RHEL ;-) > > I Like this slogan: > <<"Fedora is the best of today, RHEL is the best of the following seven > years">>. > > Best Regards, > Ok. Put this message on the Fedora Official website. For me, it's a bad argument and a very bad marketing slogan for Fedora project! -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America http://www.proyectofedora.org From lfelipebm at yahoo.com.br Fri Oct 10 14:57:09 2008 From: lfelipebm at yahoo.com.br (Luis Felipe Marzagao/Yahoo) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:57:09 -0300 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> Message-ID: <48EF6D45.9090707@yahoo.com.br> I think Fedora is great distro, which is why I?m involved with it (of course...). But sometimes it's *really* disappointing to see how people in Fedora always seem to resit changes... So what there's RHEL and CentOS? So what the Fedora purpose is to be a "lab"?! Why can?t it be changed? If Fedora nevers changes, it will always be a system for geeks only, which I think is only good for... geeks! But terrible for the rest of the world and even for Fedora. The less people using Fedora means less support to it, the less search for it and, thus, the overcoming of other distros... The mentioned slogan is smart and beautiful, but does not hide the fact that Fedora is still far away in terms of publicity and support than other distros... -- duli Andrea Modesto Rossi escreveu: > On Ven, 10 Ottobre 2008 4:27 pm, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > >> because is impossible to migrate every year to other Fedora Release. >> With the short time support is impossible to work and use Fedora. >> > > I don't understand the problem...for LTS there is RHEL ;-) > > I Like this slogan: > <<"Fedora is the best of today, RHEL is the best of the following seven > years">>. > > Best Regards, > > __________________________________________________ Fa?a liga??es para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ From bochecha at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 10 14:56:58 2008 From: bochecha at fedoraproject.org (Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:56:58 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> > Andrea Modesto Rossi escreveu: >> I don't understand the problem...for LTS there is RHEL ;-) >> >> I Like this slogan: >> <<"Fedora is the best of today, RHEL is the best of the following seven >> years">>. >> >> Best Regards, >> > > Ok. Put this message on the Fedora Official website. > > For me, it's a bad argument and a very bad marketing slogan for Fedora > project! Or maybe you didn't really understand the goal of the Fedora Project. Once again, Fedora is not about conquering the desktop / server market. It's about developping / building / creating / innovating / revolutionning the future of the desktop / server FOSS products. The Fedora distribution is simply a tool to test and build this future. 1. If we wanted to conquer the desktop, we would find a legal way to provide mp3 and other codecs 2. If we wanted to conquer the server, we would have a LTS (which we had in fact, but Fedora Legacy died because no one was needing it / willing to maintain it) Regards, ---------- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) French Fedora Ambassador ---------- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin From bochecha at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 10 14:40:33 2008 From: bochecha at fedoraproject.org (Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:40:33 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF665C.9030007@projetofedora.org> References: <48ef618b.4b27360a.204d.0926@mx.google.com> <48EF665C.9030007@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <54307.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223649633.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> > SERPRO (Brazilian Government IT Department) has more than 9.000 desktops > running Fedora (in all brazilian states) and now is migrating to Ubuntu, > because is impossible to migrate every year to other Fedora Release. > With the short time support is impossible to work and use Fedora. If I have to be totally honest, being a hard Fedora advocate, I would never inflict myself the pain of having to maitain 9000 Fedora systems. I mean come on ! 9000 updates each year ! o_O > - If you are a Geek, a student or developer, you can use Fedora > otherwise, you have to use Centos or Red Hat EL. I would rather say: "If you want to help us build the future of computing, doing it in a way that preserve users freedoms, come and join the Fedora Community". What's good about having lot's of Fedora users ? What do they bring ? What we need are contributors, which is rather different. And don't tell me that to have contributors you need users. I know at least one Fedora contributor (who will soon become a Fedora Ambassador) and whose system of choice is... Gentoo. Fedora is not about conquering the market, it's about improving the whole FOSS ecosystem. If we wanted to be simply better than others, we wouldn't redistribute upstream all the great features we have at each release, often 6 months before others. > Sorry, but, for me it don't make sense! I can't work in a project in a > cooperative way, contributing and cooperating with something that's not > to be used in a serious way. Fedora can be used in a serious way, I mean, on this list, most of us (and maybe all of us) are actually using it in a serious way. ---------- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) French Fedora Ambassador ---------- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Fri Oct 10 15:00:02 2008 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:00:02 -0300 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF6D45.9090707@yahoo.com.br> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6D45.9090707@yahoo.com.br> Message-ID: <48EF6DF2.4070109@projetofedora.org> +1 Luis Felipe Marzagao/Yahoo escreveu: > I think Fedora is great distro, which is why I?m involved with it (of > course...). > > But sometimes it's *really* disappointing to see how people in Fedora > always seem to resit changes... So what there's RHEL and CentOS? So what > the Fedora purpose is to be a "lab"?! > > Why can?t it be changed? > > If Fedora nevers changes, it will always be a system for geeks only, > which I think is only good for... geeks! But terrible for the rest of > the world and even for Fedora. The less people using Fedora means less > support to it, the less search for it and, thus, the overcoming of other > distros... > > The mentioned slogan is smart and beautiful, but does not hide the fact > that Fedora is still far away in terms of publicity and support than > other distros... > > -- duli > > Andrea Modesto Rossi escreveu: >> On Ven, 10 Ottobre 2008 4:27 pm, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: >> >>> because is impossible to migrate every year to other Fedora Release. >>> With the short time support is impossible to work and use Fedora. >>> >> >> I don't understand the problem...for LTS there is RHEL ;-) >> >> I Like this slogan: >> <<"Fedora is the best of today, RHEL is the best of the following seven >> years">>. >> >> Best Regards, >> >> > > __________________________________________________ > Fa?a liga??es para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger > http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America http://www.proyectofedora.org From lfelipebm at yahoo.com.br Fri Oct 10 15:07:50 2008 From: lfelipebm at yahoo.com.br (Luis Felipe Marzagao/Yahoo) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:07:50 -0300 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> Message-ID: <48EF6FC6.7000903@yahoo.com.br> Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) escreveu: > Or maybe you didn't really understand the goal of the Fedora Project. > > Once again, Fedora is not about conquering the desktop / server market. > It's about developping / building / creating / innovating / revolutionning > the future of the desktop / server FOSS products. > > And why it cannot be changed???? What prevents us from arguing about changes???? Is there a immutable law that Fedora stays that way? I thougt the whole thing was about freedom (including the freedom of change...) -- duli __________________________________________________ Fa?a liga??es para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Fri Oct 10 15:17:43 2008 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:17:43 -0300 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> Message-ID: <48EF7217.8090800@projetofedora.org> Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) escreveu: >> Andrea Modesto Rossi escreveu: >>> I don't understand the problem...for LTS there is RHEL ;-) >>> >>> I Like this slogan: >>> <<"Fedora is the best of today, RHEL is the best of the following seven >>> years">>. >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> >> Ok. Put this message on the Fedora Official website. >> >> For me, it's a bad argument and a very bad marketing slogan for Fedora >> project! > > Or maybe you didn't really understand the goal of the Fedora Project. > > Once again, Fedora is not about conquering the desktop / server market. > It's about developping / building / creating / innovating / revolutionning > the future of the desktop / server FOSS products. > > The Fedora distribution is simply a tool to test and build this future. > > 1. If we wanted to conquer the desktop, we would find a legal way to > provide mp3 and other codecs > 2. If we wanted to conquer the server, we would have a LTS (which we had > in fact, but Fedora Legacy died because no one was needing it / willing to > maintain it) > > Regards, > > > ---------- > > Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) > French Fedora Ambassador > > ---------- > "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin > I know what is Fedora and I understand the GOAL of the project, i'm here since 2005. But i disagree with some points! We can't only think in: "developping / building / creating / innovating / revolutionning" It's great for others distros like Red Hat EL and Centos, but for Fedora, no! Thinking in this way, we are working to improve other distros. In Brazil, the base of Red Hat users is Fedora users in the past. If the companies use Ubuntu, they will use Debian on Servers in the future. It's happening here and is VERY bad for Fedora and Red Hat. SERPRO is migrating from Fedora to Ubuntu and canceling contracts with Red hat to put Debian in your servers, so, less $ to red hat less $ to Fedora Project. Fedora i loosing space, users, opportunities and contributors! Who contribute with a project, want to see you contributions being used in companies, schools, governments... -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America http://www.proyectofedora.org From bochecha at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 10 15:24:32 2008 From: bochecha at fedoraproject.org (Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:24:32 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF6FC6.7000903@yahoo.com.br> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF6FC6.7000903@yahoo.com.br> Message-ID: <39321.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223652272.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> > > Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) escreveu: >> Or maybe you didn't really understand the goal of the Fedora Project. >> >> Once again, Fedora is not about conquering the desktop / server market. >> It's about developping / building / creating / innovating / >> revolutionning >> the future of the desktop / server FOSS products. >> >> > And why it cannot be changed???? What prevents us from arguing about > changes???? Is there a immutable law that Fedora stays that way? I > thougt the whole thing was about freedom (including the freedom of > change...) Well, When managing a project, you have to have a specific goal. If it's too broad, you'll never manage to attain it as you have limited man power. I'm sure it can be changed, but how many people are willing to do it ? Why didn't you join the Fedora Legacy project before it died ? That actually was the LTS you're expecting. Now if you want it, just recreate it. No one will ever blame you for doing it and everyone might encourage you in doing so. But unless you have a lot of people contributing, you'll never succeed. And as most of the Fedora contributors are technophiles wanting to have always bleeding edge technologies improving at a very fast rate (which is exactly the goal of the Fedora Project), I doubt you'll find a lot of people wanting to help (but I might be speaking too much for others here :) Anyway, good luck in reopening the Fedora Legacy project, that would be a really good initiative (even if I will personally never use it). Regards, From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 10 15:44:34 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:44:34 +0100 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF7217.8090800@projetofedora.org> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF7217.8090800@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <507738ef0810100844y233c7a8bof284276096be9c86@mail.gmail.com> > I know what is Fedora and I understand the GOAL of the project, i'm here > since 2005. Try to think about this in terms of free software, not distro v distro. For me, I use and contribute to Fedora because I care about freedom, want to help drive freedom forward and believe Fedora is the best place for me to achieve these goals at the moment. I couldn't careless if people use Cent OS, RHEL, Fedora, Debian, Gentoo etc etc (some questions Re: Ubuntu's stance on freedom), they're all going to be using free software, much of which was developed on Fedora by Fedora developers. This has been my focus of marketing Fedora, the cool innovative work that our developers do, to a) get them credit, and b) to encourage others to come and join in as contributors. > > Thinking in this way, we are working to improve other distros. Which is fine, if freedom is what you really care about. > Who contribute with a project, want to see you contributions being used > in companies, schools, governments... And Fedora contributions are used in schools, governments etc, just in other distributions, and that's something you should be proud of IMHO. Jon From bochecha at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 10 15:49:59 2008 From: bochecha at fedoraproject.org (Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:49:59 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF760D.8030003@projetofedora.org> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF6FC6.7000903@yahoo.com.br> <39321.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223652272.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF760D.8030003@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <46610.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223653799.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> > Reopen the Legacy project would be great! > > But, we need to use the same infra and repositories of Fedora Project. That's the problem IMHO. > If the Legacy project will be a official project i can work HARD to > recruit people to work in LATAM. > > So, that's is the question. Can we maintain Fedora releases by more 1 > year officially, using the official mirrors and repos ? > > The fedora Board has a position about this ? I think they have: a Fedora release is maintained only one year (but you might want to ask them on their ML ;) The Fedora Legacy was a community initiative, it was not an official one by the Fedora Project, just like Fedora Unity is iirc. Regards, PS: could you stop replying to people CCing the mailing list and reply directly (and only) to the mailing list ? ---------- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) French Fedora Ambassador ---------- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Fri Oct 10 15:52:11 2008 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:52:11 -0300 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810100844y233c7a8bof284276096be9c86@mail.gmail.com> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF7217.8090800@projetofedora.org> <507738ef0810100844y233c7a8bof284276096be9c86@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48EF7A2B.7050509@projetofedora.org> Jonathan Roberts escreveu: >> I know what is Fedora and I understand the GOAL of the project, i'm here >> since 2005. > > Try to think about this in terms of free software, not distro v distro. > > For me, I use and contribute to Fedora because I care about freedom, > want to help drive freedom forward and believe Fedora is the best > place for me to achieve these goals at the moment. I couldn't careless > if people use Cent OS, RHEL, Fedora, Debian, Gentoo etc etc (some > questions Re: Ubuntu's stance on freedom), they're all going to be > using free software, much of which was developed on Fedora by Fedora > developers. > > This has been my focus of marketing Fedora, the cool innovative work > that our developers do, to a) get them credit, and b) to encourage > others to come and join in as contributors. > > >> Thinking in this way, we are working to improve other distros. > > Which is fine, if freedom is what you really care about. > >> Who contribute with a project, want to see you contributions being used >> in companies, schools, governments... > > And Fedora contributions are used in schools, governments etc, just in > other distributions, and that's something you should be proud of IMHO. > > Jon > Yes, but we can BE BETTER, only adding more 1 year of updates to the packages!! With this improvement on the project the number of users/collaborators will increase!! It's good for fedora, for red hat, for US... for the FOSS world! Fedora is a good distro and can be much better! This is the way! -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America http://www.proyectofedora.org From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Fri Oct 10 15:34:37 2008 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:34:37 -0300 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <39321.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223652272.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF6FC6.7000903@yahoo.com.br> <39321.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223652272.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> Message-ID: <48EF760D.8030003@projetofedora.org> Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) escreveu: >> Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) escreveu: >>> Or maybe you didn't really understand the goal of the Fedora Project. >>> >>> Once again, Fedora is not about conquering the desktop / server market. >>> It's about developping / building / creating / innovating / >>> revolutionning >>> the future of the desktop / server FOSS products. >>> >>> >> And why it cannot be changed???? What prevents us from arguing about >> changes???? Is there a immutable law that Fedora stays that way? I >> thougt the whole thing was about freedom (including the freedom of >> change...) > > Well, When managing a project, you have to have a specific goal. If it's > too broad, you'll never manage to attain it as you have limited man power. > > I'm sure it can be changed, but how many people are willing to do it ? Why > didn't you join the Fedora Legacy project before it died ? That actually > was the LTS you're expecting. > > Now if you want it, just recreate it. No one will ever blame you for doing > it and everyone might encourage you in doing so. But unless you have a lot > of people contributing, you'll never succeed. > > And as most of the Fedora contributors are technophiles wanting to have > always bleeding edge technologies improving at a very fast rate (which is > exactly the goal of the Fedora Project), I doubt you'll find a lot of > people wanting to help (but I might be speaking too much for others here > :) > > Anyway, good luck in reopening the Fedora Legacy project, that would be a > really good initiative (even if I will personally never use it). > > Regards, > Reopen the Legacy project would be great! But, we need to use the same infra and repositories of Fedora Project. If the Legacy project will be a official project i can work HARD to recruit people to work in LATAM. So, that's is the question. Can we maintain Fedora releases by more 1 year officially, using the official mirrors and repos ? The fedora Board has a position about this ? -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America http://www.proyectofedora.org From hudsonman35 at gmail.com Fri Oct 10 16:11:36 2008 From: hudsonman35 at gmail.com (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:11:36 -0400 Subject: Now more than ever, LINUX needs to be known! Message-ID: With the economy on the brink of recession, LINUX could save the day for everyone needing a reliable Operating System! We need to reach out to Windoze/Mac Users who haven't taken the plunge yet. What can we do to lure them in? Markus McLaughlin linuxglobe.wordpress.com Hudson, MA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hudsonman35 at gmail.com Fri Oct 10 16:27:32 2008 From: hudsonman35 at gmail.com (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:27:32 -0400 Subject: Fedora-marketing-list Digest, Vol 52, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: <20081010143958.268818E01D9@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20081010143958.268818E01D9@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: Seems to me, a new project has to be established. After Fedora 10 is released, let's find Fedora Programmers willing to tweak Fedora some more, rename it something else but add a LTS at the end for long term support, then release that into the public arena. If those who need RHEL support, can then upgrade to RHEL. Doesn't that make any sense to anyone? I think it makes great sense, this will challenge Ubuntu for sure!!! Please tell me something along those lines is already happening, if not, why not??? Markus McLaughlin linuxglobe.wordpress.com Hudson, MA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From smooge at gmail.com Fri Oct 10 16:41:34 2008 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:41:34 -0600 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <80d7e4090810100941s5c4f0ac1n9e400624b82f9d4a@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > Andrea Modesto Rossi escreveu: >> I don't understand the problem...for LTS there is RHEL ;-) >> >> I Like this slogan: >> <<"Fedora is the best of today, RHEL is the best of the following seven >> years">>. >> >> Best Regards, >> > > Ok. Put this message on the Fedora Official website. > > For me, it's a bad argument and a very bad marketing slogan for Fedora > project! > Stability costs time. Time of people who are going to dedicate themselves to keeping old bits from rotting and not being attracted to the latest shiney. The community that Fedora has grown is not really focused on that. It is focused on developing the next generation software that will be used by other distros in the future. The community that CentOS has grown is focused on stability and the lack of shiney. If Fedora wants to go more into stability focus then they need to work on growing that kind of community also. But that takes dedicated people who have lots of time to focus on that versus other issues. It takes extra build systems, extra diskspace, but most of all extra time. In the end, it is a black and white dichotomy with a volunteer oriented project: You can have stability or you can have shiney. You aren't going to have both because they are often orthoganal in design/implementation. -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- BSD/GNU/Linux How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From lfelipebm at yahoo.com.br Fri Oct 10 16:48:48 2008 From: lfelipebm at yahoo.com.br (Luis Felipe Marzagao/Yahoo) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:48:48 -0300 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <39321.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223652272.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF6FC6.7000903@yahoo.com.br> <39321.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223652272.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> Message-ID: <48EF8770.1070103@yahoo.com.br> Yes, it?s pretty clear... Of course we can do whatever we want.... If I want to open the "Space Monkeys Fedora" project I could.. But that?s not the point here. We are talking about wheter or not the Fedora board is willing to sponsor this idea. Since we saw the creation of CentOS, I assume it?s clearly not in the Fedora objectives such thing, otherwise we would?ve seen something like "FedoraOS". :) Anyway, my point is such idea should be at Fedora goals. Everything that drivers people away from Fedora should be considered, re-thought and, maybe, re-implemented. Of course I cannot do it alone. I barely know hot to build rpms and don?t have the infrastructure to do so. But that doesn?t prevent me from incentivanting such idea and alerting Fedora heads that maybe some goals do not contribute to the growth of the distro. If this idea will be embraced or not, that?s another problem... Unfortunatelly, I see it?s not... (what IMHO is sad). I think it?s natural from an ambassador the desire to see the distro gain more and more users... Sorry if I?m a little trenchant. I only do it because I like the Fedora Project a lot! :) -- duli Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) escreveu: > Well, When managing a project, you have to have a specific goal. If it's > too broad, you'll never manage to attain it as you have limited man power. > > I'm sure it can be changed, but how many people are willing to do it ? Why > didn't you join the Fedora Legacy project before it died ? That actually > was the LTS you're expecting. > > Now if you want it, just recreate it. No one will ever blame you for doing > it and everyone might encourage you in doing so. But unless you have a lot > of people contributing, you'll never succeed. > > And as most of the Fedora contributors are technophiles wanting to have > always bleeding edge technologies improving at a very fast rate (which is > exactly the goal of the Fedora Project), I doubt you'll find a lot of > people wanting to help (but I might be speaking too much for others here > :) > > Anyway, good luck in reopening the Fedora Legacy project, that would be a > really good initiative (even if I will personally never use it). > > Regards, > > __________________________________________________ Fa?a liga??es para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ From ivazqueznet at gmail.com Fri Oct 10 15:57:06 2008 From: ivazqueznet at gmail.com (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:57:06 -0400 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF6D45.9090707@yahoo.com.br> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6D45.9090707@yahoo.com.br> Message-ID: <1223654226.10562.55.camel@ignacio.lan> On Fri, 2008-10-10 at 11:57 -0300, Luis Felipe Marzagao/Yahoo wrote: > But sometimes it's *really* disappointing to see how people in Fedora > always seem to resit changes... So what there's RHEL and CentOS? So what > the Fedora purpose is to be a "lab"?! > > Why can?t it be changed? What are *YOU* *DOING* about it? Other than posting a lot on mailing lists, I mean. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From steven.moix at axianet.ch Fri Oct 10 17:21:29 2008 From: steven.moix at axianet.ch (Steven Moix) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:21:29 +0200 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF7A2B.7050509@projetofedora.org> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF7217.8090800@projetofedora.org> <507738ef0810100844y233c7a8bof284276096be9c86@mail.gmail.com> <48EF7A2B.7050509@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <4d3fcf2efa75f9e7e4fda42f9019120e@localhost> On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:52:11 -0300, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > > Yes, but we can BE BETTER, only adding more 1 year of updates to the > packages!! With this improvement on the project the number of > users/collaborators will increase!! > > It's good for fedora, for red hat, for US... for the FOSS world! > > Fedora is a good distro and can be much better! > > This is the way! I think that we all agree on this point, an infinite support would be even better :p I just doubt that people in the fedora project are willing to maintain 4 releases, some people already don't maintain their packages for the n-1 release now. I'm not arguing against you, in an ideal world it would be great. I'm just being realistic. The real and simple answer to this LTS problem would be for RedHat to offer RHEL workstation for free (yes, the killed product), without support. The maintenance effort has already been made for RHEL and you are not losing any customers IMO. "Serious" businesses pay their subscriptions and the others already use CentOS. Steven From fugolini at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 10 17:31:43 2008 From: fugolini at fedoraproject.org (Francesco Ugolini) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:31:43 +0200 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF4DCF.4010601@projetofedora.org> References: <48EF4DCF.4010601@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: 2008/10/10 Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira : > Hello Guys! > > Read this bad news: > > http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;1474805050;fp;16;fpid;1 > > This is happening frequently. I think we will have to revise some things > within the project, particularly the creation of a Legacy project or a > Fedora LTS. > > The brazilian government, one of the biggest Fedora Case of the world is > changing from Fedora/ Red Hat to Ubuntu/Debian. > > We need to think and create a solution to give support by a long time or > the fedora user will decrease! > > My 0,02 > > -- > > Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira > M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ > Fedora Community Manager - Latin America > http://www.proyectofedora.org I think this is one of the thousands of BIG issues that are affecting Wikipedia (google the news to see something of them), not a Fedora one. Personally I trust more NASA, the Roadrunner (the 1st supercomputer) and all the professional and home users that are trusting fedora and all the universe around it. I personally think it could be a little damage in the Marketing side (just because Wi*ipedia is a known brand), but I think all the people around Fedora could stop the proliferation of such "odd" news just explaining what we are doing and where we are going. I often see the sentence"Fedora lead, never follow", I think it's a self explained one and there isn't the necessity to be feared by a really stupid speculation. We are the leaders and we are the most innovative/community oriented project, more than something someone is still calling an Encyclopaedia. Regards Francesco Ugolini From smooge at gmail.com Fri Oct 10 17:42:19 2008 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:42:19 -0600 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF8770.1070103@yahoo.com.br> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF6FC6.7000903@yahoo.com.br> <39321.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223652272.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF8770.1070103@yahoo.com.br> Message-ID: <80d7e4090810101042m12e15d4ds29bae997906b22c8@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Luis Felipe Marzagao/Yahoo wrote: > Yes, it?s pretty clear... Of course we can do whatever we want.... If I want > to open the "Space Monkeys Fedora" project I could.. But that?s not the > point here. > > We are talking about wheter or not the Fedora board is willing to sponsor > this idea. > What would the Fedora board sponsoring the project change? It does not control staff/budgets to say "Oh you 8 developers will now work on long term support." It is up to FESCO to say "You can't put those updates into Fedora-X because it would break stability." and it would be up to the community to vote in people into FESCO to say that. And it would be up to the community to build a SIG that is interested in that. When Fedora works well, it is when things are done Bottom-Up. That means the community has to want to do something, organize to do something, show what it is doing, and then follow through in doing it. The community must want to do the heavy lifting first, and then do the heavy lifting. All the top level can do is say "This is what the community wants, here is how we can help the community to get there..." and grease the gears to make it work better. When Fedora breaks down, it is usually because either people want it mandated from above, or somehting feels like it has been mandated. When the community doesn't do the lifting.. no number of strong-men rulers can fix that. -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- BSD/GNU/Linux How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 10 17:47:58 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:17:58 +0530 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF8770.1070103@yahoo.com.br> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF6FC6.7000903@yahoo.com.br> <39321.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223652272.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF8770.1070103@yahoo.com.br> Message-ID: <48EF954E.8070805@fedoraproject.org> Luis Felipe Marzagao/Yahoo wrote: > Yes, it?s pretty clear... Of course we can do whatever we want.... If I > want to open the "Space Monkeys Fedora" project I could.. But that?s not > the point here. You will have to call it something else otherwise it would be a trademark violation ;-) > We are talking about wheter or not the Fedora board is willing to > sponsor this idea. Fedora Board does not have the ability to command volunteers. People do the work involved and then ask Fedora Board to endorse an existing effort. That's how existing sub projects has done. That's how Fedora Legacy did it as well. The point is that you have to demonstrate that there are people involved who are willing to put in the effort required to maintain a release for a longer period of time. Rahul From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Fri Oct 10 17:56:31 2008 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:56:31 -0300 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF954E.8070805@fedoraproject.org> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF6FC6.7000903@yahoo.com.br> <39321.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223652272.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF8770.1070103@yahoo.com.br> <48EF954E.8070805@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <48EF974F.7000100@projetofedora.org> Rahul Sundaram escreveu: > Luis Felipe Marzagao/Yahoo wrote: >> Yes, it?s pretty clear... Of course we can do whatever we want.... If >> I want to open the "Space Monkeys Fedora" project I could.. But that?s >> not the point here. > > You will have to call it something else otherwise it would be a > trademark violation ;-) > >> We are talking about wheter or not the Fedora board is willing to >> sponsor this idea. > > Fedora Board does not have the ability to command volunteers. People do > the work involved and then ask Fedora Board to endorse an existing > effort. That's how existing sub projects has done. That's how Fedora > Legacy did it as well. The point is that you have to demonstrate that > there are people involved who are willing to put in the effort required > to maintain a release for a longer period of time. > > Rahul > In 2009 my main goal at the Fedora Project in latin america will be recruit people to the packaging project. Increasing the number of people involved in this project we will can think in the Legacy project more efficiently. -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America http://www.proyectofedora.org From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 10 17:59:49 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:29:49 +0530 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF974F.7000100@projetofedora.org> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF6FC6.7000903@yahoo.com.br> <39321.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223652272.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF8770.1070103@yahoo.com.br> <48EF954E.8070805@fedoraproject.org> <48EF974F.7000100@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <48EF9815.6060308@fedoraproject.org> Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > In 2009 my main goal at the Fedora Project in latin america will be > recruit people to the packaging project. Very nice. > Increasing the number of people involved in this project we will can > think in the Legacy project more efficiently. True, increasing the number of people will help us expand the scope and quality of the project very much. Go for it! Rahul From aacosta at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 10 18:03:19 2008 From: aacosta at fedoraproject.org (Alejandro Acosta) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:03:19 -0600 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF9815.6060308@fedoraproject.org> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF6FC6.7000903@yahoo.com.br> <39321.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223652272.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF8770.1070103@yahoo.com.br> <48EF954E.8070805@fedoraproject.org> <48EF974F.7000100@projetofedora.org> <48EF9815.6060308@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <6ad0ab20810101103n3b77ffa1r182bdad9f09da530@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > >> In 2009 my main goal at the Fedora Project in latin america will be >> recruit people to the packaging project. >> > > Very nice. > +1 Count me in, Man -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ivazqueznet at gmail.com Fri Oct 10 18:36:58 2008 From: ivazqueznet at gmail.com (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:36:58 -0400 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF8770.1070103@yahoo.com.br> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF6FC6.7000903@yahoo.com.br> <39321.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223652272.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF8770.1070103@yahoo.com.br> Message-ID: <1223663818.10562.62.camel@ignacio.lan> On Fri, 2008-10-10 at 13:48 -0300, Luis Felipe Marzagao/Yahoo wrote: > Anyway, my point is such idea should be at Fedora goals. Everything that > drivers people away from Fedora should be considered, re-thought and, > maybe, re-implemented. Rule number one of demagoguery: you CANNOT please everyone. You cannot even ATTEMPT to. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonstanley at gmail.com Fri Oct 10 20:52:41 2008 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:52:41 -0400 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <4d3fcf2efa75f9e7e4fda42f9019120e@localhost> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF7217.8090800@projetofedora.org> <507738ef0810100844y233c7a8bof284276096be9c86@mail.gmail.com> <48EF7A2B.7050509@projetofedora.org> <4d3fcf2efa75f9e7e4fda42f9019120e@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Steven Moix wrote: > The real and simple answer to this LTS problem would be for RedHat to offer > RHEL workstation for free (yes, the killed product), without support. The > maintenance effort has already been made for RHEL and you are not losing I'm not sure what you're talking about here - RHEL Client is not a "killed" product. It's often misunderstood from Red Hat's announcements wrt this that they have killed any desktop product. This is simply untrue. Repeat after me: RED HAT IS NOT ABANDONING THE DESKTOP! What they *have* abandoned, however, is the notion that they can compete in the consumer desktop space. This was quite a sound business decision on their part, IMHO. The costs to support a consumer-focused desktop distribution simply don't fit in the Red Hat model. From hudsonman35 at gmail.com Sat Oct 11 00:22:24 2008 From: hudsonman35 at gmail.com (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:22:24 -0400 Subject: Fedora-marketing-list Digest, Vol 52, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: <20081010205257.D72BB61AD66@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20081010205257.D72BB61AD66@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: I agree with Steven, something has to be done, or else Ubuntu takes over, period! Markus linuxglobe.wordpress.com Hudson, MA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Sat Oct 11 01:36:10 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:36:10 -0500 Subject: Fedora-marketing-list Digest, Vol 52, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: References: <20081010205257.D72BB61AD66@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20081011013610.GA1072@gmail.com> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 08:22:24PM -0400, Markus McLaughlin wrote: > I agree with Steven, something has to be done, or else Ubuntu takes over, > period! We don't have a clue what you're agreeing to. It's generally considered mailing list etiquette to both 1) if you subscribe to list digests, replace the digest name with Re: (insert subject of email you're actually replying to here) and 2) include context. Even better, *don't* subscribe to the digest, and set up filters to put your list mail in different mailboxes for each list. Makes life a *lot* easier. -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nacross at gmail.com Sat Oct 11 04:21:57 2008 From: nacross at gmail.com (Neville A. Cross) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:21:57 -0600 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF7217.8090800@projetofedora.org> <507738ef0810100844y233c7a8bof284276096be9c86@mail.gmail.com> <48EF7A2B.7050509@projetofedora.org> <4d3fcf2efa75f9e7e4fda42f9019120e@localhost> Message-ID: I have read a couple of news regarding this topic. I found clear leave RHEL favouring a free distro. I was crystal clear to me using only one distro makes things easy. What I fail to find in the news is a technical reason to drop all RHEL and make standar Fedora, as they should be good at with the past experience. In the several emails that I have been reading in this topics found out that yearly updates may be a burden. But that is not in any news that I have read. Long term support may be a god thing, but I may argue that it was not the only thing that came into play for this change. I only regret knowing the fact that Wikipedia is/was using Fedora until they have decided to switch as I may have been bored all my acquaintances with it. As I have been telling everybody that Facebook host a Fedora mirror but not ubuntu. (Are they using Fedora??) I think the big lost is not have follow up to those flashy big project to help them keep up Fedora. Telling that Roadrunner runs Fedora, make most people think of cartoons. Anyway, I appreciate that Fedora is the cutting edge. I am technically challenged, so I will not develop anything, and mostly I stare amazed the thing that Fedora brings to FOSS community. It seems elitist and I feel a bit excluded if Fedora is really a distro for geeks. What I mean if leading is what Fedora is all about, the marketing team and fedora ambassadors should focus on gather and recruit leading technical people and not trying to get everyday people. I agree that it will be good to broad the range of Fedora users and if long term support is an issue maybe has to be deal. Or try to simplify more upgrades (something that is already easy). The bigger the community, more ideas and more hand to have support. But this is just my opinion. Best regards! -- Neville https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v Linux User # 473217 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Check: http://www.clickmanagua.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From satyajit at nerdshack.com Sat Oct 11 04:02:15 2008 From: satyajit at nerdshack.com (Satyajit Ranjeev) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 11:02:15 +0700 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora Message-ID: <1223697735.4833.11.camel@compaq.oakgrove.hom> Hi, I'm relatively new, and I have been only using fedora for about 4 years. All these years I have used fedora, I had fun. In the beginning I was excited a new version released every 6 months. I moved into systems administration and realized the need of a very stable system. Recent months, I have so wanted a very stable release of fedora, one I could rely my server with. I know there is CentOS and RHEL but they are not fedora. I would rather see the fedora logo on the system than the shadowman or a centos logo. I now use a fedora 8 on one of the servers and CentOS and RHEL on the others but I personally would love to see all of them being a Fedora. Its just an idea, what about having a long term support for just the even releases or a yearly release of an official fedora spin just catering to servers. Satyajit From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Oct 11 04:36:47 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 10:06:47 +0530 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1223697735.4833.11.camel@compaq.oakgrove.hom> References: <1223697735.4833.11.camel@compaq.oakgrove.hom> Message-ID: <48F02D5F.7060701@fedoraproject.org> Satyajit Ranjeev wrote: > > Its just an idea, what about having a long term support for just the > even releases or a yearly release of an official fedora spin just > catering to servers. A spin catering for servers is easy to do but without a longer lifecycle does it make sense? Even extending the lifecycle every other release required extra resources and a team willing to support. Which logo, your distribution has is less important than what purpose it serves. Rahul From lfbm.andamentos at gmail.com Sat Oct 11 05:16:06 2008 From: lfbm.andamentos at gmail.com (Luis Felipe Marzagao/Yahoo) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 02:16:06 -0300 Subject: Wikipidia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora In-Reply-To: <48EF954E.8070805@fedoraproject.org> References: <60216.91.193.45.7.1223649579.squirrel@picard.linux.it> <48EF6A71.4070909@projetofedora.org> <59391.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223650618.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF6FC6.7000903@yahoo.com.br> <39321.VwBUX1dRCno=.1223652272.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <48EF8770.1070103@yahoo.com.br> <48EF954E.8070805@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <48F03696.6020706@yahoo.com.br> Rahul, Steven, Stephen: thanks for the constructive points you have made. Much better than asking what he or she is doing... Things are clearer to me. Again, I'm sorry if I'm incisive. I already spread the Fedora word at my region and I'm always looking on some ways to improve it. My intentions are the best. Rahul Sundaram escreveu: > Luis Felipe Marzagao/Yahoo wrote: >> Yes, it?s pretty clear... Of course we can do whatever we want.... If >> I want to open the "Space Monkeys Fedora" project I could.. But >> that?s not the point here. > > You will have to call it something else otherwise it would be a > trademark violation ;-) > >> We are talking about wheter or not the Fedora board is willing to >> sponsor this idea. > > Fedora Board does not have the ability to command volunteers. People > do the work involved and then ask Fedora Board to endorse an existing > effort. That's how existing sub projects has done. That's how Fedora > Legacy did it as well. The point is that you have to demonstrate that > there are people involved who are willing to put in the effort > required to maintain a release for a longer period of time. > > Rahul > From arnavkalra007 at gmail.com Sat Oct 11 06:35:49 2008 From: arnavkalra007 at gmail.com (Arnav Kalra) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:05:49 +0530 Subject: wikipedia bye redhat fedora Message-ID: <5ac533d50810102335m7a3308bwdc28bec7b3ab3032@mail.gmail.com> we can create an lts version because it is better than losing users in brazillian govt. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ivazqueznet at gmail.com Sat Oct 11 12:52:15 2008 From: ivazqueznet at gmail.com (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 08:52:15 -0400 Subject: wikipedia bye redhat fedora In-Reply-To: <5ac533d50810102335m7a3308bwdc28bec7b3ab3032@mail.gmail.com> References: <5ac533d50810102335m7a3308bwdc28bec7b3ab3032@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1223729535.10562.85.camel@ignacio.lan> On Sat, 2008-10-11 at 12:05 +0530, Arnav Kalra wrote: > we can create an lts version because it is better than losing users in > brazillian govt. Go for it. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nihedmm at gmail.com Sat Oct 11 13:20:34 2008 From: nihedmm at gmail.com (nihed mbarek) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:20:34 +0200 Subject: wikipedia bye redhat fedora In-Reply-To: <1223729535.10562.85.camel@ignacio.lan> References: <5ac533d50810102335m7a3308bwdc28bec7b3ab3032@mail.gmail.com> <1223729535.10562.85.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: <5bddd8fd0810110620l3a70cd3bhbc475b2d83b2e220@mail.gmail.com> Hi, why don't reactive the fedora legacy project ? ? 2008/10/11 Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams > On Sat, 2008-10-11 at 12:05 +0530, Arnav Kalra wrote: > > we can create an lts version because it is better than losing users in > > brazillian govt. > > Go for it. > > -- > Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams > > PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- M'BAREK Med Nihed, http://www.nihed.com Fedora Ambassador, TUNISIA, Northern Africa Association for Computing Machinery Member PUB 1024D/FCC5B291 2006-02-28 [expires: 2008-12-27] FPR 16A4 AC3F 0B84 B3D1 A0E5 9BCC AD13 0DAE FCC5 B291 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ivazqueznet at gmail.com Sat Oct 11 14:55:25 2008 From: ivazqueznet at gmail.com (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 10:55:25 -0400 Subject: wikipedia bye redhat fedora In-Reply-To: <5bddd8fd0810110620l3a70cd3bhbc475b2d83b2e220@mail.gmail.com> References: <5ac533d50810102335m7a3308bwdc28bec7b3ab3032@mail.gmail.com> <1223729535.10562.85.camel@ignacio.lan> <5bddd8fd0810110620l3a70cd3bhbc475b2d83b2e220@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1223736925.27976.5.camel@ignacio.lan> On Sat, 2008-10-11 at 15:20 +0200, nihed mbarek wrote: > Hi, > why don't reactive the fedora legacy project ? ? Again, go for it. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Sat Oct 11 16:30:19 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:30:19 +0100 Subject: Opening RHM/news.fp.o In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810100042m477cfe1ey43391d11f810036f@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> <1223581274.5964.42.camel@calliope.phig.org> <507738ef0810100042m477cfe1ey43391d11f810036f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <507738ef0810110930n585e057cv5fa370f2a50ac70a@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/10 Jonathan Roberts : >> Yes, we did discuss in one of the meetings a few weeks ago. >> >> No, I don't know of an update. I'll ask around. > > Cheers. > > In the mean time I'd like to suggest that we set up a wordpress.com > blog and use that to begin writing content that would appear on > news.fp.o. > > I know we'll get there eventually with a Fedora/Red Hat hosted > solution, but I think just getting started now will be well worth the > effort. > > Unless anybody has any problems with this, and I'll wait 24/48 hours, > I'll set up a non-personal account on wordpress.com and a blog, write > some initial content, map out a week's worth of posts, and add it to > planet. Well, I've heard nothing back. Below is a draft introductory post for fedoramagazine.wordpress.com. ======== What's This All About? It's long been an ambition of many within the marketing team to establish a site along the lines of Red Hat Magazine, but one that's dedicated to content that's related to and created by the Fedora community. We've been working with various members of the infrastructure team, aiming to get a solution hosted on Fedora's own servers, but as a result of their humanity and our inability to arrange any serious testing, we've never made it past test installations of various incarnations of WordPress. No more! We've set up this WordPress.com blog so that anybody who's interested in helping can work together to develop a good work flow and practice creating content that is of a consistently high quality. This doesn't mean that we'll never move to using Fedora's own infrastructure, just that that's no longer such a pressing concern and it can happen when it happens. What Can We Expect? Over the past few months there have been lots of different ideas thrown around about what kind of content we might want to post to a Fedora Magazine, and we'll probably see a lot of experimentation with different formulas over the next few months too, but the picture I post here is how we're going to start. Our primary content will be structured around the days of the week, with each one having a theme: * Mondays: Fedora Weekly News - your chance to catch up on Fedora's mailing lists and blogs from all across the community. * Tuesdays: Developer Interview - find out what exciting features Fedora developers are working on for the next release. * Wednesdays: Hints & Tips - discover lots of little ways to get more out of your system, tackling common annoyances as well as cool how-tos. * Thursdays: Fedora Weekly Webcomic - take an alternative look at Fedora goings-on with Nicu's webcomic. * Fridays: Contributor Guides - want to start contributing to Fedora but don't know how; look here. Hopefully this content will form the core of what we'll do. Much of it is already being regularly produced from a number of community members, helping us to get off to a running start! It may be that not all of it will be in place from the very beginning, but hopefully over the next few weeks things will fall into place. Around this core there will be extra posts from time to time, covering all sorts from release announcements, to editorial content to tutorial series. We hope that readers will enjoy what we produce, and hopefully become contributors themselves at some point. If you have any ideas for articles, or even for a series of posts, drop an email to jonrob AT fedoraproject DOT org and we'll take it from there. We'll see you on Monday! ======= Further feedback is *welcome*, whether on the post or the idea. Editing is definitely welcome on the post... Jon From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 12 09:05:52 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:35:52 +0530 Subject: Opening RHM/news.fp.o In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810110930n585e057cv5fa370f2a50ac70a@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> <1223581274.5964.42.camel@calliope.phig.org> <507738ef0810100042m477cfe1ey43391d11f810036f@mail.gmail.com> <507738ef0810110930n585e057cv5fa370f2a50ac70a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48F1BDF0.5050405@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> >> Unless anybody has any problems with this, and I'll wait 24/48 hours, >> I'll set up a non-personal account on wordpress.com and a blog, write >> some initial content, map out a week's worth of posts, and add it to >> planet. > > Well, I've heard nothing back. Below is a draft introductory post for > fedoramagazine.wordpress.com. I don't want to stop you but why isn't the blog being hosted in Fedora infrastructure? Did we run into any problems? Rahul From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 12 09:16:19 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 10:16:19 +0100 Subject: Opening RHM/news.fp.o In-Reply-To: <48F1BDF0.5050405@fedoraproject.org> References: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> <1223581274.5964.42.camel@calliope.phig.org> <507738ef0810100042m477cfe1ey43391d11f810036f@mail.gmail.com> <507738ef0810110930n585e057cv5fa370f2a50ac70a@mail.gmail.com> <48F1BDF0.5050405@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <507738ef0810120216j4b318a96o3f95242924ab9429@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/12 Rahul Sundaram : > Jonathan Roberts wrote: >>> >>> Unless anybody has any problems with this, and I'll wait 24/48 hours, >>> I'll set up a non-personal account on wordpress.com and a blog, write >>> some initial content, map out a week's worth of posts, and add it to >>> planet. >> >> Well, I've heard nothing back. Below is a draft introductory post for >> fedoramagazine.wordpress.com. > > I don't want to stop you but why isn't the blog being hosted in Fedora > infrastructure? Did we run into any problems? It's taking a *long* time (and as I point out in the draft post, this isn't any one person's fault), and from the point of view of facilitating testing and getting experience of running something like this, I think making a start and getting on with the job in hand is probably the best next step. It will encourage other people to join and start making their contributions, and we can always migrate it to Fedora Infrastructure when it becomes available (thanks to WordPress respecting users' data and making it easy to export), in fact I want to do this. "This doesn't mean that we'll never move to using Fedora's own infrastructure, just that that's no longer such a pressing concern and it can happen when it happens." Should perhaps say: "This doesn't mean that we'll never move to using Fedora's own infrastructure, just that now we have somewhere to start that particular concern no longer needs to limit us: the move to Fedora's infrastructure can happen when it happens." Or something along those lines. Jon From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 12 09:27:01 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:57:01 +0530 Subject: Opening RHM/news.fp.o In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810120216j4b318a96o3f95242924ab9429@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> <1223581274.5964.42.camel@calliope.phig.org> <507738ef0810100042m477cfe1ey43391d11f810036f@mail.gmail.com> <507738ef0810110930n585e057cv5fa370f2a50ac70a@mail.gmail.com> <48F1BDF0.5050405@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120216j4b318a96o3f95242924ab9429@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48F1C2E5.6030901@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > It's taking a *long* time (and as I point out in the draft post, this > isn't any one person's fault), and from the point of view of > facilitating testing and getting experience of running something like > this, I think making a start and getting on with the job in hand is > probably the best next step. It will encourage other people to join > and start making their contributions, and we can always migrate it to > Fedora Infrastructure when it becomes available (thanks to WordPress > respecting users' data and making it easy to export), in fact I want > to do this. Ok. How does the workflow look like though? Do you share the same password with many editors or you want to act as a gateway by asking people to mail you the content? Will news.fedoraproject.org redirect to this blog? Rahul From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 12 09:45:30 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 10:45:30 +0100 Subject: Opening RHM/news.fp.o In-Reply-To: <48F1C2E5.6030901@fedoraproject.org> References: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> <1223581274.5964.42.camel@calliope.phig.org> <507738ef0810100042m477cfe1ey43391d11f810036f@mail.gmail.com> <507738ef0810110930n585e057cv5fa370f2a50ac70a@mail.gmail.com> <48F1BDF0.5050405@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120216j4b318a96o3f95242924ab9429@mail.gmail.com> <48F1C2E5.6030901@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <507738ef0810120245m6ce931afjc47207879e1c688d@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/12 Rahul Sundaram : > Jonathan Roberts wrote: > >> It's taking a *long* time (and as I point out in the draft post, this >> isn't any one person's fault), and from the point of view of >> facilitating testing and getting experience of running something like >> this, I think making a start and getting on with the job in hand is >> probably the best next step. It will encourage other people to join >> and start making their contributions, and we can always migrate it to >> Fedora Infrastructure when it becomes available (thanks to WordPress >> respecting users' data and making it easy to export), in fact I want >> to do this. > > Ok. How does the workflow look like though? Do you share the same password > with many editors or you want to act as a gateway by asking people to mail > you the content? WordPress.com is basically MU, so we can use virtually the same workflow that we'd use on a Fedora hosted solution. People who want to contribute will need a WordPress.com account, and then they can be added in any number of different roles such as editor, author, contributor etc. I'd rather not act as a single gateway as that's a sure fire way to kill a project like this, I'm going to get busier over the next few months and relying on just me to post content would be a big mistake! > > Will news.fedoraproject.org redirect to this blog? Hadn't considered it actually. Not convinced it's necessary at the moment, but maybe it's a good idea. Jon From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 12 11:55:32 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:25:32 +0530 Subject: Opening RHM/news.fp.o In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810120245m6ce931afjc47207879e1c688d@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> <1223581274.5964.42.camel@calliope.phig.org> <507738ef0810100042m477cfe1ey43391d11f810036f@mail.gmail.com> <507738ef0810110930n585e057cv5fa370f2a50ac70a@mail.gmail.com> <48F1BDF0.5050405@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120216j4b318a96o3f95242924ab9429@mail.gmail.com> <48F1C2E5.6030901@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120245m6ce931afjc47207879e1c688d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48F1E5B4.4010309@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > WordPress.com is basically MU, so we can use virtually the same > workflow that we'd use on a Fedora hosted solution. People who want to > contribute will need a WordPress.com account, and then they can be > added in any number of different roles such as editor, author, > contributor etc. Alright. Registered at http://rahulsundaram.wordpress.com/ > I'd rather not act as a single gateway as that's a sure fire way to > kill a project like this, I'm going to get busier over the next few > months and relying on just me to post content would be a big mistake! >> Will news.fedoraproject.org redirect to this blog? > > Hadn't considered it actually. Not convinced it's necessary at the > moment, but maybe it's a good idea. Yeah. Rahul From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 12 12:12:43 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 13:12:43 +0100 Subject: Opening RHM/news.fp.o In-Reply-To: <48F1E5B4.4010309@fedoraproject.org> References: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> <1223581274.5964.42.camel@calliope.phig.org> <507738ef0810100042m477cfe1ey43391d11f810036f@mail.gmail.com> <507738ef0810110930n585e057cv5fa370f2a50ac70a@mail.gmail.com> <48F1BDF0.5050405@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120216j4b318a96o3f95242924ab9429@mail.gmail.com> <48F1C2E5.6030901@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120245m6ce931afjc47207879e1c688d@mail.gmail.com> <48F1E5B4.4010309@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <507738ef0810120512v6cf9219bg7b25a10fe6a9c590@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/12 Rahul Sundaram : > Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> >> WordPress.com is basically MU, so we can use virtually the same >> workflow that we'd use on a Fedora hosted solution. People who want to >> contribute will need a WordPress.com account, and then they can be >> added in any number of different roles such as editor, author, >> contributor etc. > > Alright. Registered at http://rahulsundaram.wordpress.com/ What email address did you use to register? That's the part I need to know. Will add this information to the initial post and put that up later today I think. After you send me your email address, I'll add you as an administrator. Think we could do with discussing some guides about how/when to post, criteria for adding users for each of the different roles etc? Jon From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 12 12:38:13 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 13:38:13 +0100 Subject: Opening RHM/news.fp.o In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810120512v6cf9219bg7b25a10fe6a9c590@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> <1223581274.5964.42.camel@calliope.phig.org> <507738ef0810100042m477cfe1ey43391d11f810036f@mail.gmail.com> <507738ef0810110930n585e057cv5fa370f2a50ac70a@mail.gmail.com> <48F1BDF0.5050405@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120216j4b318a96o3f95242924ab9429@mail.gmail.com> <48F1C2E5.6030901@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120245m6ce931afjc47207879e1c688d@mail.gmail.com> <48F1E5B4.4010309@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120512v6cf9219bg7b25a10fe6a9c590@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <507738ef0810120538m2c08f4b9i8bd67f1f4e2e93c3@mail.gmail.com> Updated introductory text below: ======================== What's This All About? It's long been an ambition of many within the marketing team to establish a site along the lines of Red Hat Magazine, but one that's dedicated to content that's related to and created by the Fedora community. We've been working with various members of the infrastructure team, aiming to get a solution hosted on Fedora's own servers, but as a result of their humanity and our inability to arrange any serious testing, we've never made it past test installations of various incarnations of WordPress. No more! We've set up this WordPress.com blog so that anybody who's interested in helping can develop a good work flow and start creating content that is of a consistently high quality. This doesn't mean that we'll never move to using Fedora's own infrastructure, just that now we have somewhere to start that particular concern no longer needs to limit us: the move to Fedora's infrastructure can happen when it happens. What Can We Expect? Over the past few months there have been lots of different ideas thrown around about what kind of content we might want to post to a Fedora Magazine, and we'll probably see a lot of experimentation with different formulas over the next few months too, but the picture I post here is how we're going to start. Our primary content will be structured around the days of the week, with each one having a theme: * Mondays: Fedora Weekly News - your chance to catch up on Fedora's mailing lists and blogs from all across the community. * Tuesdays: Developer Interview - find out what exciting features Fedora developers are working on for the next release. * Wednesdays: Hints & Tips - discover lots of little ways to get more out of your system, tackling common annoyances as well as cool how-tos. * Thursdays: Fedora Weekly Webcomic - take an alternative look at Fedora goings-on with Nicu's webcomic. * Fridays: Contributor Guides - want to start contributing to Fedora but don't know how; look here. Hopefully this content will form the core of what we'll do. Much of it is already being regularly produced from a number of community members, helping us to get off to a running start! It may be that not all of it will be in place from the very beginning, but hopefully over the next few weeks things will develop nicely. Around this core there will be extra posts from time to time, covering all sorts from release announcements, to editorial content to tutorial series. We hope that readers will enjoy what we produce, and hopefully become contributors themselves at some point. How Do I Become A Contributor? We will make more details available about how to get involved with this project over the coming days, as we figure out for ourselves how we want to add new contributors and decide what to post outside of the core content described above. If you'd like to help hash out these details, join us on the fedora-marketing-list where these discussions are happening. The most likely outcome is that it will be a combination of email submissions for one-time contributions, and adding as a blog member for those who wish to be a more permanent part of the project. The latter will probably take advantage of WordPress's roles feature, with a combination of editor and contributor roles used for the majority of users based upon interests, reputation and open spaces. ============================== Jon From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 12 13:21:43 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 09:21:43 -0400 Subject: Opening RHM/news.fp.o In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810120512v6cf9219bg7b25a10fe6a9c590@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> <1223581274.5964.42.camel@calliope.phig.org> <507738ef0810100042m477cfe1ey43391d11f810036f@mail.gmail.com> <507738ef0810110930n585e057cv5fa370f2a50ac70a@mail.gmail.com> <48F1BDF0.5050405@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120216j4b318a96o3f95242924ab9429@mail.gmail.com> <48F1C2E5.6030901@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120245m6ce931afjc47207879e1c688d@mail.gmail.com> <48F1E5B4.4010309@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120512v6cf9219bg7b25a10fe6a9c590@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1223817703.28745.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2008-10-12 at 13:12 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > 2008/10/12 Rahul Sundaram : > > Jonathan Roberts wrote: > >> > >> WordPress.com is basically MU, so we can use virtually the same > >> workflow that we'd use on a Fedora hosted solution. People who want to > >> contribute will need a WordPress.com account, and then they can be > >> added in any number of different roles such as editor, author, > >> contributor etc. > > > > Alright. Registered at http://rahulsundaram.wordpress.com/ > > What email address did you use to register? That's the part I need to > know. Will add this information to the initial post and put that up > later today I think. > > After you send me your email address, I'll add you as an > administrator. Think we could do with discussing some guides about > how/when to post, criteria for adding users for each of the different > roles etc? I have an account too, using this email address, at stickster.wp.c. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hudsonman35 at gmail.com Sun Oct 12 15:38:49 2008 From: hudsonman35 at gmail.com (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 11:38:49 -0400 Subject: Fedora-marketing-list Digest, Vol 52, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <20081011160011.E975161972B@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20081011160011.E975161972B@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: I will end this discussion on a note, when Fedora 10 is released, if anyone wants to make a Server spin out of it, go for it! We can't lose to Ubuntu, let's all test out Fedora 10 and move forward! Markus / linuxglobe.wordpress.com / Hudson, MA, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frankly3d at gmail.com Sun Oct 12 15:58:24 2008 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 16:58:24 +0100 Subject: Fedora-marketing-list Digest, Vol 52, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: <20081011160011.E975161972B@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1223827104.21390.4.camel@frank-01> On Sun, 2008-10-12 at 11:38 -0400, Markus McLaughlin wrote: > I will end this discussion on a note, when Fedora 10 is released, if > anyone wants to make a Server spin out of it, go for it! What discussion? No idea what you are replying to. Frank > -- gpg id EB547226 Revoked Forgot Password :( aMSN: Frankly3D http://www.frankly3d.com From michael.d.beckwith at gmail.com Sun Oct 12 18:32:12 2008 From: michael.d.beckwith at gmail.com (Michael Beckwith) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 13:32:12 -0500 Subject: Fedora-marketing-list Digest, Vol 52, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <1223827104.21390.4.camel@frank-01> References: <20081011160011.E975161972B@hormel.redhat.com> <1223827104.21390.4.camel@frank-01> Message-ID: <48F242AC.8000906@gmail.com> Frank Murphy wrote: > On Sun, 2008-10-12 at 11:38 -0400, Markus McLaughlin wrote: > >> I will end this discussion on a note, when Fedora 10 is released, if >> anyone wants to make a Server spin out of it, go for it! >> > > > What discussion? > No idea what you are replying to. > > Frank > Read the "Wikipedia: Goodbye Red Hat & Fedora" discussion thread -- ~Michael http://michaelbox.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oisinfeeley at imapmail.org Sun Oct 12 18:52:45 2008 From: oisinfeeley at imapmail.org (Oisin Feeley) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:52:45 -0400 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: <48E5190E.8050408@nd.edu> References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> <50819.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222876321.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <604aa7910810010921t55316431l8bd2465036bd89ad@mail.gmail.com> <32801.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222882959.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <604aa7910810011049o65783efdkeef6248455588123@mail.gmail.com> <20081002024247.GM23900@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <604aa7910810012116v7d28ea56m7a53a2837df080a5@mail.gmail.com> <20081002121517.GU23900@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <48E5190E.8050408@nd.edu> Message-ID: <1223837565.30728.1278869953@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 14:55:10 -0400, "Pascal Calarco" said: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Oisin, Pascal, Max, et al.: Would you be interested in running a > > special issue of Fedora Weekly News -- or simply devoting a regularly > > scheduled issue -- to reporting on IRC chat interviews/Q&A with > > community members running for elections? > > > > It seems like everyone, including the Board, is in favor of a general > > election where FESCo, the Board, etc. will run their elections > > concurrently sometime with 30 days after release of Fedora 10. To > > give the community a better idea of where nominees stand, the > > Marketing group will have a method for gathering questions and posing > > them to the nominees. If FWN were to report those answers they could > > potentially reach a lot more people, thus resulting in a more informed > > electorate. > > This seems like a great idea to me, and a nice way for FWN to help > spread the word on getting more community involvement in the election! > > One suggestion might be to include these as they come in, in regular FWN > issues, and then put together a special issue of all of these together, > along with any other additional content y'all feel would be useful, > closer to the election, perhaps at the beginning of the voting period. > Other suggestions most welcome! I'm a bit late in replying to this, but I'm completely in favor of what Pascal suggests above. Probably we'll have to be pro-active in prompting candidates to respond to a template of some sort. Something along the lines of: 1. What are the biggest problems with the Fedora Project which you seek to address and how? 2. What is your relevant experience? 3. Are there other changes which you envision? 4. Are there areas or issues which you intend to completely avoid? 5. Any other? It would be interesting to offer candidates the opportunity to comment on each others' platforms or mandates but this requires that we get this processing going soon. As I look over the above it sounds a bit controlling and I can imagine that some candidates would prefer not to be constrained by any template, but it might be easier to compare ideas if they follow some sort of formatting conventions. Best wishes, -- Oisin Feeley http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/OisinFeeley From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 12 19:32:02 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:32:02 +0100 Subject: Fedora Magazine Message-ID: <507738ef0810121232l3438f96fsd80dcdf730e451ad@mail.gmail.com> Right, well, I guess we should start a new thread about the magazine blog I've just started. I've posted the introductory post already shared on this list, as well as added Rahul and Paul as Admin users. Tomorrow I intend to repost Fedora Weekly News on it, and will try and follow the core content I've laid out over the rest of the week. I hope everyone is satisfied with things so far. This is very much a public test, but I want to create the best content we can and having it public is probably a good motivator for that. Next steps: Figure out guidelines for: * Adding new contributors to the blog. What criteria do we want to have for adding people as a) contributors, b) editors, c) administrators. I guess an informal system of sponsorship, where admins are equivalent to package sponsors. * How do we decide when content is ready to be posted? For FWN etc, this is obvious as others take care of it for us. Besides that, I'd argue that it should be reviewed by at least one other editor. Kindly, jon From hudsonman35 at gmail.com Mon Oct 13 03:46:07 2008 From: hudsonman35 at gmail.com (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:46:07 -0400 Subject: Getting out the vote for the Fedora 10 election season In-Reply-To: <20081002024247.GM23900@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> References: <604aa7910809301506x2afca5b8jfc10a86fe8997c89@mail.gmail.com> <50819.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222876321.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <604aa7910810010921t55316431l8bd2465036bd89ad@mail.gmail.com> <32801.VwBUX1dRCno=.1222882959.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> <604aa7910810011049o65783efdkeef6248455588123@mail.gmail.com> <20081002024247.GM23900@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: Hi, I can not seem to log into Fedora Forum! I tried to contact the Administrator, nothing worked! Paul, can you e-mail me the answers to the questions I e-mailed earlier the day after Fedora 10 is released, it's so appreciated! Thanks! Markus McLaughlin a k a linuxglobe linuxglobe.wordpress.com Hudson, MA, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 13 08:00:37 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:00:37 +0300 Subject: Opening RHM/news.fp.o In-Reply-To: <48F1C2E5.6030901@fedoraproject.org> References: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> <1223581274.5964.42.camel@calliope.phig.org> <507738ef0810100042m477cfe1ey43391d11f810036f@mail.gmail.com> <507738ef0810110930n585e057cv5fa370f2a50ac70a@mail.gmail.com> <48F1BDF0.5050405@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120216j4b318a96o3f95242924ab9429@mail.gmail.com> <48F1C2E5.6030901@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <48F30025.3060803@nicubunu.ro> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Will news.fedoraproject.org redirect to this blog? I think you should ask ASAP for a subdomain redirection from fp.o to fm.wp.c: if you change the domain name later, all the PageRank accumulated in the meantime will be practically lost. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 13 08:05:37 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:05:37 +0300 Subject: Opening RHM/news.fp.o In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810120538m2c08f4b9i8bd67f1f4e2e93c3@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> <1223581274.5964.42.camel@calliope.phig.org> <507738ef0810100042m477cfe1ey43391d11f810036f@mail.gmail.com> <507738ef0810110930n585e057cv5fa370f2a50ac70a@mail.gmail.com> <48F1BDF0.5050405@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120216j4b318a96o3f95242924ab9429@mail.gmail.com> <48F1C2E5.6030901@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120245m6ce931afjc47207879e1c688d@mail.gmail.com> <48F1E5B4.4010309@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120512v6cf9219bg7b25a10fe6a9c590@mail.gmail.com> <507738ef0810120538m2c08f4b9i8bd67f1f4e2e93c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48F30151.9050307@nicubunu.ro> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Updated introductory text below: > > ======================== > > What's This All About? > > It's long been an ambition of many within the marketing team to > establish a site along the lines of Red Hat Magazine, but one that's > dedicated to content that's related to and created by the Fedora > community. We've been working with various members of the > infrastructure team, aiming to get a solution hosted on Fedora's own > servers, but as a result of their humanity and our inability to > arrange any serious testing, we've never made it past test > installations of various incarnations of WordPress. No more! We've set > up this WordPress.com blog so that anybody who's interested in helping > can develop a good work flow and start creating content that is of a > consistently high quality. I see you included my webcomic in this schedule, I wonder if this is supposed to involve some changes, like an editorial review, me being less silly or poking less fun at Ubuntu? Or just be trying to be more disciplined and have it always ready one day in advance? -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 13 08:49:50 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 09:49:50 +0100 Subject: Opening RHM/news.fp.o In-Reply-To: <48F30151.9050307@nicubunu.ro> References: <507738ef0810050633o57437eedn252c15644cdce5f9@mail.gmail.com> <507738ef0810110930n585e057cv5fa370f2a50ac70a@mail.gmail.com> <48F1BDF0.5050405@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120216j4b318a96o3f95242924ab9429@mail.gmail.com> <48F1C2E5.6030901@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120245m6ce931afjc47207879e1c688d@mail.gmail.com> <48F1E5B4.4010309@fedoraproject.org> <507738ef0810120512v6cf9219bg7b25a10fe6a9c590@mail.gmail.com> <507738ef0810120538m2c08f4b9i8bd67f1f4e2e93c3@mail.gmail.com> <48F30151.9050307@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <507738ef0810130149s32100d97pe5ddc89080874c1c@mail.gmail.com> > I see you included my webcomic in this schedule, I wonder if this is > supposed to involve some changes, like an editorial review, me being less > silly or poking less fun at Ubuntu? > Or just be trying to be more disciplined and have it always ready one day in > advance? Should have been clearer about this I guess: everything I've included in the schedule is either content that will need to be created as original material, or like your webcomic is under an open license. For the latter, I didn't intend to ask for any changes to the material, just to make use of what is already available to us in the best possible way. If you'd like, however, I hope that through this project we might be able to establish the team and resources that we could help out with some kind of editorial review. Like I've been saying however, this is very much a test, it is very open to change and tweaking, whether to accommodate us or creators of content, so feedback is most welcome :) I hope this is OK? Jon From minorsecond at gmail.com Mon Oct 13 13:32:06 2008 From: minorsecond at gmail.com (Ross Wardrup) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 08:32:06 -0500 Subject: Self-Introduction: Ross Wardrup Message-ID: Hello, My name is Ross Wardrup, and I'm from Denton, Texas, USA. I'm a student at the University of Norht Texas and I'm going to school for computer science. I'm also a produce stocker at Wal-Mart at the moment, which I'm hoping to change soon. I hope to promote Fedora at my university and city and also to help my marketing and people skills, and to help my future career. I'd like to talk about installing Fedora on Apple Macbooks, because that is what I use. I'd like to see greater compatablity with Apple products in Fedora, but with Rawhide, that really doesn't seem to be a problem. I'd also like to try to get into coding once I gain more skill, since that's what I'm being educated for. I have no official qualifications in marketing or promoting, but I have been promoting Linux in general for several years and have gotten at least 10 people to switch over. I think I've got some good ideas on how to promote Fedora at UNT, including getting a booth set up with laptops and letting people "click around" Fedora. Sincerely, Ross Wardrup -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 13 13:35:46 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:05:46 +0530 Subject: Self-Introduction: Ross Wardrup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48F34EB2.8040607@fedoraproject.org> Ross Wardrup wrote: > Hello, > My name is Ross Wardrup, and I'm from Denton, Texas, USA. I'm a student > at the University of Norht Texas and I'm going to school for computer > science. I'm also a produce stocker at Wal-Mart at the moment, which I'm > hoping to change soon. I hope to promote Fedora at my university and > city and also to help my marketing and people skills, and to help my > future career. I'd like to talk about installing Fedora on Apple > Macbooks, because that is what I use. I'd like to see greater > compatablity with Apple products in Fedora, but with Rawhide, that > really doesn't seem to be a problem. I'd also like to try to get into > coding once I gain more skill, since that's what I'm being educated for. > I have no official qualifications in marketing or promoting, but I have > been promoting Linux in general for several years and have gotten at > least 10 people to switch over. I think I've got some good ideas on how > to promote Fedora at UNT, including getting a booth set up with laptops > and letting people "click around" Fedora. Good to have you join this project Ross Wardrup. If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask and hope you find interesting things to participate in. Rahul From amrossi at linux.it Mon Oct 13 14:01:12 2008 From: amrossi at linux.it (Andrea Modesto Rossi) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 16:01:12 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Self-Introduction: Ross Wardrup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <64724.91.193.45.7.1223906472.squirrel@picard.linux.it> On Lun, 13 Ottobre 2008 3:32 pm, Ross Wardrup wrote: > Hello, > My name is Ross Wardrup, and I'm from Denton, Texas, USA. I'm a student at > the University of Norht Texas and I'm going to school for computer > science. > Hi Ross, nice to meet you and welcome on board!! Happy Fedora :-D -- Andrea Modesto Rossi Fedora Ambassador https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 13 19:13:30 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 00:43:30 +0530 Subject: Some Fedora 10 (Beta) reports Message-ID: <48F39DDA.9090501@fedoraproject.org> Hi, Reviews: From the viewpoint of a Malayalam (language) desktop user http://libregeek.blogspot.com/2008/10/quick-glance-at-fedora-10-beta.html KDE and Fedora contributor http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/1391/ Media reports: Fedora 10 almost ready for release http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/linux-lotus-domino/fedora-10-almost-ready-for-release Fedora 10's snapshot scramble begins http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Fedora-10-s-snapshot-scramble-begins/0,130061733,339292602,00.htm Rahul From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 14 08:10:20 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:10:20 +0100 Subject: FM & FWN Message-ID: <507738ef0810140110p78508d16k1b42e4dee1e3387e@mail.gmail.com> Having just republished FWN 147 on FM, I now intend to put up this post containing some notes and request for feedback on how we're approaching it. Trying to keep in line with some of my own suggestions about what we should post outside of the core content, I'm pasting the content here to give people a chance to comment before I post it. Obviously we'll need a more long term solution, but thoughts and feedback welcome :) I'll probably give it until lunchtime here, (GMT+1) before I go ahead and hit publish. ------------------------ Having just republished issue 147 of Fedora Weekly News here on Fedora Magazine, I want to take the chance to provide some notes about how we're approaching this, as well as to ask for some feedback. Firstly, FWN has its own category here, 'Fedora Weekly News', and as such has its own feed. This means that all those who've been waiting for a FWN feed to subscribe to can now point their feed readers at: http://fedoramagazine.wordpress.com/category/fedora-weekly-news/feed/ Although this feed address will change if/when we move to Fedora's infrastructure, I don't anticipate this happening for a while and I will be sure to make it very clear when it does. Secondly, and this is where I'd like feedback, FWN was not reformatted at all from the wiki. While WordPress did a great job at converting all of the existing formatting, I'd like to know if people would prefer it in any other formats. This could include anything from header styles, page breaks, inline links... the list goes on. So, let us know what you think about how we're approaching the republication of FWN by leaving a comment to this post. From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Oct 14 09:36:16 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:36:16 +0300 Subject: FM & FWN In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810140110p78508d16k1b42e4dee1e3387e@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810140110p78508d16k1b42e4dee1e3387e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48F46810.8010909@nicubunu.ro> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > Secondly, and this is where I'd like feedback, FWN was not reformatted > at all from the wiki. While WordPress did a great job at converting > all of the existing formatting, I'd like to know if people would > prefer it in any other formats. This could include anything from > header styles, page breaks, inline links... the list goes on. Well, if you ask about the layout, I have a few complaints about the general layout: - I think I could read better the text with a slightly larger font; - the center column is to narrow and hard to read (about 420px, meaning about 11 cm on my 43.5 cm wide display); - you have a "blogroll" sidebox with a link to fp.o. I think blogroll is more like a list of blogs, so either leave its name as "blogroll" and link there to blogs (planet fedora, red hat magazine, etc.) or rename it to "links" and leave the fp.o link in place (very useful to have). Or maybe have both boxes? - I know this require some (a lot of?) work, but I would like to see FM using a theme close the theme used on the other Fedora websites. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 14 11:51:05 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:51:05 +0100 Subject: FM & FWN In-Reply-To: <48F46810.8010909@nicubunu.ro> References: <507738ef0810140110p78508d16k1b42e4dee1e3387e@mail.gmail.com> <48F46810.8010909@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <507738ef0810140451p1f056ef5l2506e09d15149533@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/14 Nicu Buculei : > Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> >> Secondly, and this is where I'd like feedback, FWN was not reformatted >> at all from the wiki. While WordPress did a great job at converting >> all of the existing formatting, I'd like to know if people would >> prefer it in any other formats. This could include anything from >> header styles, page breaks, inline links... the list goes on. > > Well, if you ask about the layout, I have a few complaints about the general > layout: > - I think I could read better the text with a slightly larger font; > - the center column is to narrow and hard to read (about 420px, meaning > about 11 cm on my 43.5 cm wide display); > - you have a "blogroll" sidebox with a link to fp.o. I think blogroll is > more like a list of blogs, so either leave its name as "blogroll" and link > there to blogs (planet fedora, red hat magazine, etc.) or rename it to > "links" and leave the fp.o link in place (very useful to have). Or maybe > have both boxes? > - I know this require some (a lot of?) work, but I would like to see FM > using a theme close the theme used on the other Fedora websites. The comments you've made here are very true. I actually have a wordpress fedora theme, but you can't apply custom themes on wordpress.com blogs without paying. As this is a test, maybe I should add a beta tag somewhere, I don't think I'll get that applied (plus I'm short on cash!). As for the font and too narrow center column, I'll switch to a different theme that should help. Also, agreed with the blogroll comments and I'll fix that now, while publishing this post. > > -- > nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com > Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From kam at kamsalisbury.com Tue Oct 14 12:10:41 2008 From: kam at kamsalisbury.com (Kam) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 05:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: FM & FWN Message-ID: <48f48c41.4c1f2c0a.5bff.ffffbfaa@mx.google.com> Jonathan, I have plenty of space and bandwidth to host the wordpress site for you (all of us) long term. Contact me off list to work through the details. -- Kam http://kamsalisbury.com GPG key: FAF1751E -----Original Message----- From: "Jonathan Roberts" Subj: Re: FM & FWN Date: Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:51 am Size: 2K To: "For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base" 2008/10/14 Nicu Buculei : > Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> >-snip From pcalarco at nd.edu Tue Oct 14 12:41:17 2008 From: pcalarco at nd.edu (Pascal Calarco) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 08:41:17 -0400 Subject: FM & FWN In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810140110p78508d16k1b42e4dee1e3387e@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810140110p78508d16k1b42e4dee1e3387e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48F4936D.9050800@nd.edu> Hi Jonathan -- Its great to see this up -- kudos! I am cc'ing the fedora-news-list here as well, so they can also provide feedback. Responders: please include both fedora-news-list and fedora-marketing-list in your responses, to keep everyone in the discussion. FWN tends to be a bit long, so if there is a way we could automate building a pseudo table of contents like the wiki does, that would be a great help. If this is not easy to do, if we could somehow distinguish one beat from another, this would help break it up, perhaps adding a
at the end of each section, preceeding the next beat. Along these lines, I might suggest that we widen the text area column, which will reduce the length of the page, or select a theme that utilizes more of the screen. It looks like in some of the references, a tab has been inserted, moving over the URL to the right? We can check to see if this is coming from the source or if it is being introduced in the conversion, but this should be corrected, as it looks sloppy. I think it is a paragraph rule where the URL exceeds the first line length, since all of the URLs on the page exhibiting this have longer URLs. Thanks again, Jonathan! Its exciting to see this coming together! - pascal Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Having just republished FWN 147 on FM, I now intend to put up this > post containing some notes and request for feedback on how we're > approaching it. Trying to keep in line with some of my own suggestions > about what we should post outside of the core content, I'm pasting the > content here to give people a chance to comment before I post it. > > Obviously we'll need a more long term solution, but thoughts and > feedback welcome :) I'll probably give it until lunchtime here, > (GMT+1) before I go ahead and hit publish. > > ------------------------ > > Having just republished issue 147 of Fedora Weekly News here on Fedora > Magazine, I want to take the chance to provide some notes about how > we're approaching this, as well as to ask for some feedback. > > Firstly, FWN has its own category here, 'Fedora Weekly News', and as > such has its own feed. This means that all those who've been waiting > for a FWN feed to subscribe to can now point their feed readers at: > > http://fedoramagazine.wordpress.com/category/fedora-weekly-news/feed/ > > Although this feed address will change if/when we move to Fedora's > infrastructure, I don't anticipate this happening for a while and I > will be sure to make it very clear when it does. > > Secondly, and this is where I'd like feedback, FWN was not reformatted > at all from the wiki. While WordPress did a great job at converting > all of the existing formatting, I'd like to know if people would > prefer it in any other formats. This could include anything from > header styles, page breaks, inline links... the list goes on. > > So, let us know what you think about how we're approaching the > republication of FWN by leaving a comment to this post. > -- ------------------------------------ Pascal V. Calarco, MLIS Head, Library Systems University of Notre Dame/ Michiana Academic Library Consortium Notre Dame, IN USA 46556 http://www.library.nd.edu ------------------------------------ From axelilly at gmail.com Tue Oct 14 17:00:17 2008 From: axelilly at gmail.com (Jason Fenner) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:00:17 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction: Ross Wardrup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2008/10/13 Ross Wardrup > Hello, > My name is Ross Wardrup, and I'm from Denton, Texas, USA. I'm a student at > the University of Norht Texas and I'm going to school for computer science. > I'm also a produce stocker at Wal-Mart at the moment, which I'm hoping to > change soon. I hope to promote Fedora at my university and city and also to > help my marketing and people skills, and to help my future career. I'd like > to talk about installing Fedora on Apple Macbooks, because that is what I > use. I'd like to see greater compatablity with Apple products in Fedora, but > with Rawhide, that really doesn't seem to be a problem. I'd also like to try > to get into coding once I gain more skill, since that's what I'm being > educated for. I have no official qualifications in marketing or promoting, > but I have been promoting Linux in general for several years and have gotten > at least 10 people to switch over. I think I've got some good ideas on how > to promote Fedora at UNT, including getting a booth set up with laptops and > letting people "click around" Fedora. > > Sincerely, > Ross Wardrup > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > Welcome aboard! -- =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Jason aka, Axelilly Catch me on gchat or Jabber =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tushar.neupaney at gmail.com Wed Oct 15 02:29:14 2008 From: tushar.neupaney at gmail.com (Tushar Neupaney) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 08:14:14 +0545 Subject: Self-Introduction: Ross Wardrup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: U R Welcome. 2008/10/14 Jason Fenner > > > 2008/10/13 Ross Wardrup > >> Hello, >> My name is Ross Wardrup, and I'm from Denton, Texas, USA. I'm a student at >> the University of Norht Texas and I'm going to school for computer science. >> I'm also a produce stocker at Wal-Mart at the moment, which I'm hoping to >> change soon. I hope to promote Fedora at my university and city and also to >> help my marketing and people skills, and to help my future career. I'd like >> to talk about installing Fedora on Apple Macbooks, because that is what I >> use. I'd like to see greater compatablity with Apple products in Fedora, but >> with Rawhide, that really doesn't seem to be a problem. I'd also like to try >> to get into coding once I gain more skill, since that's what I'm being >> educated for. I have no official qualifications in marketing or promoting, >> but I have been promoting Linux in general for several years and have gotten >> at least 10 people to switch over. I think I've got some good ideas on how >> to promote Fedora at UNT, including getting a booth set up with laptops and >> letting people "click around" Fedora. >> >> Sincerely, >> Ross Wardrup >> >> -- >> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list >> Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list >> > > Welcome aboard! > > -- > =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= > Jason > aka, Axelilly > Catch me on gchat or Jabber > =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steven.moix at axianet.ch Wed Oct 15 09:08:13 2008 From: steven.moix at axianet.ch (Steven Moix) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:08:13 +0200 Subject: FM & FWN In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810140110p78508d16k1b42e4dee1e3387e@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810140110p78508d16k1b42e4dee1e3387e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1224061693.13122.3.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> On Tue, 2008-10-14 at 09:10 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Firstly, FWN has its own category here, 'Fedora Weekly News', and as > such has its own feed. This means that all those who've been waiting > for a FWN feed to subscribe to can now point their feed readers at: > > http://fedoramagazine.wordpress.com/category/fedora-weekly-news/feed/ > > Although this feed address will change if/when we move to Fedora's > infrastructure, I don't anticipate this happening for a while and I > will be sure to make it very clear when it does. Talking about feeds, the FWN feed in Liferea (in F9 at least) points to http://fedora-tchung.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default and stops at issue 128. It would have been a good idea to publish a last post in this feed with a notice to change the URL. A standard user isn't going to actively seek a new FWN feed IMO. Steven From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Oct 15 15:21:25 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:21:25 +0300 Subject: FM & FWN In-Reply-To: <1224061693.13122.3.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> References: <507738ef0810140110p78508d16k1b42e4dee1e3387e@mail.gmail.com> <1224061693.13122.3.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> Message-ID: <48F60A75.1090204@nicubunu.ro> Steven Moix wrote: > > Talking about feeds, the FWN feed in Liferea (in F9 at least) points to > http://fedora-tchung.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default and stops at issue > 128. It would have been a good idea to publish a last post in this feed > with a notice to change the URL. A standard user isn't going to actively > seek a new FWN feed IMO. That was the personal blog of Thomas Chung, the former lead of FWN... we have no way on writing on his blog... maybe an email to him asking nicely for such a post? -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 15 16:00:52 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:00:52 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: F10 artwork questions] Message-ID: <1224086452.22899.2.camel@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> -------- Forwarded Message -------- > From: Nicu Buculei > Reply-To: Fedora Art List > To: Fedora Art List > Subject: Re: F10 artwork questions > Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:38:53 +0300 > > Bill Nottingham wrote: [...snip...] > > The poster on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F10Themes/Solar - > > it doesn't appear to be valid English, certainly not in the header. > > And I'm not sure what "an all branded new way of technology" is. > > The post is not part of the release and should not be a blocker for > packaging (and I agree with you, its wording can be improved - we don't > have a better text from marketing). Forwarding this to the Marketing project for some discussion and upgrade. The poster in question is at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F10Themes/Solar#Fedora_10_.28X.29_Release_Poster Note this poster isn't part of the official release artwork. But with some better text put together by the Marketing group, it could be. Can you come up with something catchy for this eye-popping art? -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 15 16:07:32 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:07:32 -0400 Subject: FM & FWN In-Reply-To: <1224061693.13122.3.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> References: <507738ef0810140110p78508d16k1b42e4dee1e3387e@mail.gmail.com> <1224061693.13122.3.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> Message-ID: <1224086852.22899.10.camel@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 11:08 +0200, Steven Moix wrote: > On Tue, 2008-10-14 at 09:10 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > > Firstly, FWN has its own category here, 'Fedora Weekly News', and as > > such has its own feed. This means that all those who've been waiting > > for a FWN feed to subscribe to can now point their feed readers at: > > > > http://fedoramagazine.wordpress.com/category/fedora-weekly-news/feed/ > > > > Although this feed address will change if/when we move to Fedora's > > infrastructure, I don't anticipate this happening for a while and I > > will be sure to make it very clear when it does. > > Talking about feeds, the FWN feed in Liferea (in F9 at least) points to > http://fedora-tchung.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default and stops at issue > 128. It would have been a good idea to publish a last post in this feed > with a notice to change the URL. A standard user isn't going to actively > seek a new FWN feed IMO. You may want to file this as a bug against Liferea in rawhide. IIRC Brian Pepple maintains that package so I'm cc'ing him for good measure. He'll let me know if I'm dead wrong. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From steven.moix at axianet.ch Wed Oct 15 16:14:32 2008 From: steven.moix at axianet.ch (Steven Moix) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:14:32 +0200 Subject: FM & FWN In-Reply-To: <48F60A75.1090204@nicubunu.ro> References: <507738ef0810140110p78508d16k1b42e4dee1e3387e@mail.gmail.com> <1224061693.13122.3.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> <48F60A75.1090204@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1224087272.2854.4.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 18:21 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Steven Moix wrote: > > > > Talking about feeds, the FWN feed in Liferea (in F9 at least) points to > > http://fedora-tchung.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default and stops at issue > > 128. It would have been a good idea to publish a last post in this feed > > with a notice to change the URL. A standard user isn't going to actively > > seek a new FWN feed IMO. > > That was the personal blog of Thomas Chung, the former lead of FWN... we > have no way on writing on his blog... maybe an email to him asking > nicely for such a post? Done, I contacted him. Steven From steven.moix at axianet.ch Wed Oct 15 16:31:37 2008 From: steven.moix at axianet.ch (Steven Moix) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:31:37 +0200 Subject: FM & FWN In-Reply-To: <1224086852.22899.10.camel@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> References: <507738ef0810140110p78508d16k1b42e4dee1e3387e@mail.gmail.com> <1224061693.13122.3.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> <1224086852.22899.10.camel@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <1224088297.2854.7.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 12:07 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 11:08 +0200, Steven Moix wrote: > > On Tue, 2008-10-14 at 09:10 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > > > > Firstly, FWN has its own category here, 'Fedora Weekly News', and as > > > such has its own feed. This means that all those who've been waiting > > > for a FWN feed to subscribe to can now point their feed readers at: > > > > > > http://fedoramagazine.wordpress.com/category/fedora-weekly-news/feed/ > > > > > > Although this feed address will change if/when we move to Fedora's > > > infrastructure, I don't anticipate this happening for a while and I > > > will be sure to make it very clear when it does. > > > > Talking about feeds, the FWN feed in Liferea (in F9 at least) points to > > http://fedora-tchung.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default and stops at issue > > 128. It would have been a good idea to publish a last post in this feed > > with a notice to change the URL. A standard user isn't going to actively > > seek a new FWN feed IMO. > > You may want to file this as a bug against Liferea in rawhide. IIRC > Brian Pepple maintains that package so I'm cc'ing him for good measure. > He'll let me know if I'm dead wrong. Done: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=467083 Steven From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 15 21:48:30 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:48:30 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: F10 artwork questions] In-Reply-To: <1224086452.22899.2.camel@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> References: <1224086452.22899.2.camel@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <507738ef0810151448t4f7a946dq796ed2fc81febd48@mail.gmail.com> > Forwarding this to the Marketing project for some discussion and > upgrade. The poster in question is at: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F10Themes/Solar#Fedora_10_.28X.29_Release_Poster > How about something like: Look out for a new star in this autumn's skies: Fedora 10 arrives $date As the main text? Seems strange though that we're possibly going to be using lines like this for marketing when the release is called Cambridge. Maybe it's time we tried to unify the release name with the artwork? Jon From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 15 22:53:50 2008 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:53:50 -0400 Subject: FM & FWN In-Reply-To: <1224086852.22899.10.camel@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> References: <507738ef0810140110p78508d16k1b42e4dee1e3387e@mail.gmail.com> <1224061693.13122.3.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> <1224086852.22899.10.camel@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <1224111230.8840.2.camel@kennedy> On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 12:07 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 11:08 +0200, Steven Moix wrote: > > On Tue, 2008-10-14 at 09:10 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > > > > Firstly, FWN has its own category here, 'Fedora Weekly News', and as > > > such has its own feed. This means that all those who've been waiting > > > for a FWN feed to subscribe to can now point their feed readers at: > > > > > > http://fedoramagazine.wordpress.com/category/fedora-weekly-news/feed/ > > > > > > Although this feed address will change if/when we move to Fedora's > > > infrastructure, I don't anticipate this happening for a while and I > > > will be sure to make it very clear when it does. > > > > Talking about feeds, the FWN feed in Liferea (in F9 at least) points to > > http://fedora-tchung.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default and stops at issue > > 128. It would have been a good idea to publish a last post in this feed > > with a notice to change the URL. A standard user isn't going to actively > > seek a new FWN feed IMO. > > You may want to file this as a bug against Liferea in rawhide. IIRC > Brian Pepple maintains that package so I'm cc'ing him for good measure. > He'll let me know if I'm dead wrong. I no longer maintainer it (since I started using Google Reader), but if the current maintainer needs help fixing it I'm willing to help out. Later, /B -- Brian Pepple https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Bpepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Oct 16 13:29:17 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 09:29:17 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: F10 artwork questions] In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810151448t4f7a946dq796ed2fc81febd48@mail.gmail.com> References: <1224086452.22899.2.camel@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <507738ef0810151448t4f7a946dq796ed2fc81febd48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1224163757.19681.20.camel@victoria-eth> On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 22:48 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > Forwarding this to the Marketing project for some discussion and > > upgrade. The poster in question is at: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F10Themes/Solar#Fedora_10_.28X.29_Release_Poster > > > > How about something like: > > Look out for a new star in this autumn's skies: Fedora 10 arrives $date > > As the main text? > > Seems strange though that we're possibly going to be using lines like > this for marketing when the release is called Cambridge. Maybe it's > time we tried to unify the release name with the artwork? A very old discussion. We keep aiming for this goal, but sometimes the themes come in from new people; if the theme is too good to pass up I suspect we'll end up in this boat again. I'd rather have an attractive theme than a matching theme, personally, although having both would be a bonus! :-) -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Oct 16 13:38:17 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:38:17 +0300 Subject: [Fwd: Re: F10 artwork questions] In-Reply-To: <1224163757.19681.20.camel@victoria-eth> References: <1224086452.22899.2.camel@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <507738ef0810151448t4f7a946dq796ed2fc81febd48@mail.gmail.com> <1224163757.19681.20.camel@victoria-eth> Message-ID: <48F743C9.4080906@nicubunu.ro> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 22:48 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> >> Seems strange though that we're possibly going to be using lines like >> this for marketing when the release is called Cambridge. Maybe it's >> time we tried to unify the release name with the artwork? > > A very old discussion. We keep aiming for this goal, but sometimes the > themes come in from new people; if the theme is too good to pass up I > suspect we'll end up in this boat again. I'd rather have an attractive > theme than a matching theme, personally, although having both would be a > bonus! :-) There are two problems: - schedule: even if the selection of the release name was moved near to the development cycle start trying to help the Art team, it still was quite late; - for F9 we really tried such a tie, integrating sulphur crystals in the graphics, but the feed-back was negative so we took it down at the last minute. You can't link a good theme with any name (Cambridge is also tough from this point of view - use a stylised version of the university? a science lab? - not many options). -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 16 13:49:31 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:49:31 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: F10 artwork questions] In-Reply-To: <48F743C9.4080906@nicubunu.ro> References: <1224086452.22899.2.camel@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <507738ef0810151448t4f7a946dq796ed2fc81febd48@mail.gmail.com> <1224163757.19681.20.camel@victoria-eth> <48F743C9.4080906@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <507738ef0810160649l7cacf63cxf5a1e5c3a3bc5ccc@mail.gmail.com> > There are two problems: > - schedule: even if the selection of the release name was moved near to the > development cycle start trying to help the Art team, it still was quite > late; > - for F9 we really tried such a tie, integrating sulphur crystals in the > graphics, but the feed-back was negative so we took it down at the last > minute. You can't link a good theme with any name (Cambridge is also tough > from this point of view - use a stylised version of the university? a > science lab? - not many options). I suppose reversing it and doing the artwork first and basing the name of that isn't an option because of the legal problems it would cause? Jon From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Oct 16 13:52:28 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:52:28 +0300 Subject: [Fwd: Re: F10 artwork questions] In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810160649l7cacf63cxf5a1e5c3a3bc5ccc@mail.gmail.com> References: <1224086452.22899.2.camel@victoria-eth.internal.frields.org> <507738ef0810151448t4f7a946dq796ed2fc81febd48@mail.gmail.com> <1224163757.19681.20.camel@victoria-eth> <48F743C9.4080906@nicubunu.ro> <507738ef0810160649l7cacf63cxf5a1e5c3a3bc5ccc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48F7471C.3050301@nicubunu.ro> Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> There are two problems: >> - schedule: even if the selection of the release name was moved near to the >> development cycle start trying to help the Art team, it still was quite >> late; >> - for F9 we really tried such a tie, integrating sulphur crystals in the >> graphics, but the feed-back was negative so we took it down at the last >> minute. You can't link a good theme with any name (Cambridge is also tough >> from this point of view - use a stylised version of the university? a >> science lab? - not many options). > > I suppose reversing it and doing the artwork first and basing the name > of that isn't an option because of the legal problems it would cause? That is one reason and the another is that basing the release name on the graphic theme would effectively make the Art team to dictate the release name. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From kwade at redhat.com Thu Oct 16 09:30:22 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 02:30:22 -0700 Subject: Fedora 10 tour? Message-ID: <1224149422.28571.217.camel@calliope.phig.org> Anyone working on the Fedora 10 tour? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tours/Fedora9 I'm going to put a better URL for F10[1] in the release notes, and put a blank page there. Does this belong on the Marketing tasks? - Karsten [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tour_of_Fedora_10 -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jaa at redhat.com Thu Oct 16 17:59:03 2008 From: jaa at redhat.com (Jack Aboutboul) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:59:03 -0400 Subject: Meeting today at 3pm Eastern Message-ID: <48F780E7.1000100@redhat.com> Sorry for the late notice, but lets try and get together today at 3 eastern. Where: irc.freeode.net #fedora-meeting ***PLEASE NOTE THE CHANGE IN ROOM*** When: 3pm eastern See you all then. Jack From herlo1 at gmail.com Thu Oct 16 18:54:18 2008 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:54:18 -0600 Subject: Fedora 10 tour? In-Reply-To: <1224149422.28571.217.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1224149422.28571.217.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: 2008/10/16 Karsten 'quaid' Wade : > Anyone working on the Fedora 10 tour? > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tours/Fedora9 > > I'm going to put a better URL for F10[1] in the release notes, and put a > blank page there. > > Does this belong on the Marketing tasks? I could take this on as it's something I don't mind doing. I'm gonna do an ogg of the installation and firstboot in the next couple days. Seems like I'll have to do the ogg video twice if I do it now. Should I base it upon the F-10 Beta now and then redo the views when the GA release comes out? Screenshots will be pretty simple, so I'll go ahead and get those done ASAP. Cheers, Clint From arnavkalra007 at gmail.com Fri Oct 17 11:55:12 2008 From: arnavkalra007 at gmail.com (Arnav Kalra) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 17:25:12 +0530 Subject: wikipedia goodbye redhat and fedora Message-ID: <5ac533d50810170455t61baa319ic2aa13f33d2ae1f6@mail.gmail.com> why don't we have a long release (even no.) released every year which has support for 2 more long releases. scrap odd no. releases for fortnightly test releases like opensolaris. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 17 23:32:17 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 05:02:17 +0530 Subject: Connection Sharing in NetworkManager Message-ID: <48F92081.1000401@fedoraproject.org> Hi, http://www.press.redhat.com/2008/10/16/connection-sharing-in-networkmanager/ "But we?ve already upped the ante for Fedora 10 even before we issued the Beta ? with connection sharing. If you?ve got one internet connection running, like that handy mobile broadband card, you can easily make it available to your friends or coworkers. Running an impromptu hackfest? Need to collaborate with business partners at the airport? Fedora and NetworkManager make it easy. It?s as simple as one, two, three." Watch the awesome video at http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/10/16/video-fedora-10-connection-sharing/ Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 17 23:37:26 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 05:07:26 +0530 Subject: OLPC Releases Fedora-Based Linux Distribution for the XO Laptop Message-ID: <48F921B6.9010102@fedoraproject.org> Hi, http://news.softpedia.com/news/OLPC-Releases-Fedora-based-Linux-Distribution-for-the-XO-Laptop-95858.shtml "The OLPC (One Laptop Per Child) developers announced today a new release of their XO Software, a Fedora-based Linux distribution designed for the XO laptop. The new version is based on the popular Sugar graphical interface, Fedora 9 operating system, and includes some core software customizations for wireless drivers, Open Firmware, power management, and the NAND flash filesystem" Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 17 23:44:26 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 05:14:26 +0530 Subject: Linux Vendors Increase Security Features Message-ID: <48F9235A.8010503@fedoraproject.org> Hi, http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/Linux-Vendors-Increase-Security-Features/ "Version 10 of Red Hat's Fedora Linux distribution, which is scheduled for release at the end of November, is set to ship with a new security audit and intrusion prevention tool. Between this new tool, Fedora's support for full-volume encryption at install time (a feature that Ubuntu also offers but OpenSUSE lacks) and Fedora's well-implemented SELinux subsystem, Red Hat has delivered the most well-rounded complement of security features available on any current Linux distribution." Rahul From frankly3d at gmail.com Sat Oct 18 08:29:44 2008 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 09:29:44 +0100 Subject: wikipedia goodbye redhat and fedora In-Reply-To: <5ac533d50810170455t61baa319ic2aa13f33d2ae1f6@mail.gmail.com> References: <5ac533d50810170455t61baa319ic2aa13f33d2ae1f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1224318584.3338.1.camel@frank-01> On Fri, 2008-10-17 at 17:25 +0530, Arnav Kalra wrote: > why don't we have a long release (even no.) released every year which > has support for 2 more long releases. scrap odd no. releases for > fortnightly test releases like opensolaris. Basically there's no interest in it. I would say your flogging a dead horse. Frank -- gpg id EB547226 Revoked Forgot Password :( aMSN: Frankly3D http://www.frankly3d.com From rdieter at math.unl.edu Sat Oct 18 21:18:54 2008 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:18:54 -0500 Subject: wikipedia goodbye redhat and fedora References: <5ac533d50810170455t61baa319ic2aa13f33d2ae1f6@mail.gmail.com> <1224318584.3338.1.camel@frank-01> Message-ID: Frank Murphy wrote: > On Fri, 2008-10-17 at 17:25 +0530, Arnav Kalra wrote: >> why don't we have a long release (even no.) released every year which >> has support for 2 more long releases. scrap odd no. releases for >> fortnightly test releases like opensolaris. > > Basically there's no interest in it. > I would say your flogging a dead horse. There's interest alright, though it's unclear at the moment whether that interest will develop into any *work* being done by those interested. Either way, probably not all that relevant for *this* list. :) -- Rex From jonas.karlsson at fxdev.com Sun Oct 19 09:05:40 2008 From: jonas.karlsson at fxdev.com (Jonas Karlsson) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:05:40 +0200 Subject: wikipedia goodbye redhat and fedora In-Reply-To: References: <5ac533d50810170455t61baa319ic2aa13f33d2ae1f6@mail.gmail.com> <1224318584.3338.1.camel@frank-01> Message-ID: <48FAF864.5060308@fxdev.com> My question is: how will RH look upon a Fedora LTS distribution, that upgrades correctly and easy when next LTS release is out. This will most likely eat a part of the RHEL userbase. Will it even be possible for the Fedora community to publish an LTS considering the above? //Jonas Rex Dieter wrote: > Frank Murphy wrote: > > >> On Fri, 2008-10-17 at 17:25 +0530, Arnav Kalra wrote: >> >>> why don't we have a long release (even no.) released every year which >>> has support for 2 more long releases. scrap odd no. releases for >>> fortnightly test releases like opensolaris. >>> >> Basically there's no interest in it. >> I would say your flogging a dead horse. >> > > There's interest alright, though it's unclear at the moment whether that interest will develop into any *work* being done by those interested. Either way, probably not all that relevant for *this* list. :) > > -- Rex > > From itamar at ispbrasil.com.br Mon Oct 20 00:37:01 2008 From: itamar at ispbrasil.com.br (Itamar - IspBrasil) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 22:37:01 -0200 Subject: wikipedia goodbye redhat and fedora In-Reply-To: <48FAF864.5060308@fxdev.com> References: <5ac533d50810170455t61baa319ic2aa13f33d2ae1f6@mail.gmail.com> <1224318584.3338.1.camel@frank-01> <48FAF864.5060308@fxdev.com> Message-ID: <48FBD2AD.9060601@ispbrasil.com.br> will eat some rh users. but will also eat all centos users. for redhat the best is the people using fedora instead of centos. On 10/19/2008 7:05 AM, Jonas Karlsson wrote: > My question is: how will RH look upon a Fedora LTS distribution, that > upgrades correctly and easy when next LTS release is out. This will > most likely eat a part of the RHEL userbase. Will it even be possible > for the Fedora community to publish an LTS considering the above? > > //Jonas > > From gmaxwell at gmail.com Mon Oct 20 03:03:34 2008 From: gmaxwell at gmail.com (Gregory Maxwell) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 23:03:34 -0400 Subject: Wikimedia's usage of Ubuntu Message-ID: I have been mostly tuning out the noise on these lists related to the Ubuntu/Wikimedia press event and I don't wish to stir them up again, but I expect the participants here will find the following both informative and as useful reference material for correcting FUD which might circulate related to this in the future. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Ubuntu_migration_FAQ From arnavkalra007 at gmail.com Mon Oct 20 09:39:33 2008 From: arnavkalra007 at gmail.com (Arnav Kalra) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:09:33 +0530 Subject: wikipedia goodbye redhat and fedora Message-ID: <5ac533d50810200239h476673c1x5e0bf4d490d8cfd9@mail.gmail.com> but 2 yr support vs 7 yr support?? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonas.karlsson at fxdev.com Mon Oct 20 10:19:13 2008 From: jonas.karlsson at fxdev.com (Jonas Karlsson) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:19:13 +0200 Subject: wikipedia goodbye redhat and fedora In-Reply-To: <48FBD2AD.9060601@ispbrasil.com.br> References: <5ac533d50810170455t61baa319ic2aa13f33d2ae1f6@mail.gmail.com> <1224318584.3338.1.camel@frank-01> <48FAF864.5060308@fxdev.com> <48FBD2AD.9060601@ispbrasil.com.br> Message-ID: <48FC5B21.4000903@fxdev.com> so if you look at it in the long run RH will get more users.. at first they might see a drop in the RHEL userbase. next users using different distros will switch to Fedora LTS, and in the long run some of the Fedora LTS'ers will go for RHEL. They might even gain users! //Jonas Itamar - IspBrasil wrote: > will eat some rh users. > > but will also eat all centos users. > > for redhat the best is the people using fedora instead of centos. > > > On 10/19/2008 7:05 AM, Jonas Karlsson wrote: >> My question is: how will RH look upon a Fedora LTS distribution, that >> upgrades correctly and easy when next LTS release is out. This will >> most likely eat a part of the RHEL userbase. Will it even be possible >> for the Fedora community to publish an LTS considering the above? >> >> //Jonas >> >> > > From jonas.karlsson at fxdev.com Mon Oct 20 11:18:42 2008 From: jonas.karlsson at fxdev.com (Jonas Karlsson) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:18:42 +0200 Subject: Fedora upgrades and LTS Message-ID: <48FC6912.809@fxdev.com> What I never seen in the Fedora updates (within a release) are major release upgrades of packages. Example: Openoffice.org is releasing v3, but that will never make it into the updates of F9, (might be wrong here!) to get upgrades like this, one has to manually install it or switch to F10. This is the same for many packages and follows the Fedora almost bleeding edge frontline philosophy. I like beeing near the front, using new software, but I'm starting to get tired of upgrading every 6month to a new release. This is because it's never flawless and ultra smoth to upgrade (not yet anyway) always some packages thats been obsolete or replaced, some functionallity thats totally different and needs a bit of working to upgrade. I've done it over the years, but a clean install often feels .. cleaner!.. and frankly it's to tiresome to do a clean install so you go with the upgrade (command line) ... solve the problems that occur and then continue to work.. This is still not anything for your grandma to attempt (and that is what it should be in the end) easy and clean! (a notification that appears, F10 is now out! upgrade system?) So this is something that an LTS version absolutely must have, new versions of software within a release and a smoth upgrade path. And smoth upgrades on a system that has additional software installed, not only a basic system setup. Even if this isn't any news, upgrading a system has never been a ride in the park.. not with any os / platform other than maybe a basic install without additional components. Why even have releases... F8, F9 F10 etc.. I guess freezes are good for making new install media. But shouldn't updates/upgrades be sufficient. And sometimes on the time line functionallity changes will be part of that updates/upgrades, called mailestones. Wouldn't this be the ultimate LTS distro? (It would almost be as an neverending stable version of rawhide) //Jonas From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 20 11:31:15 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:01:15 +0530 Subject: Fedora upgrades and LTS In-Reply-To: <48FC6912.809@fxdev.com> References: <48FC6912.809@fxdev.com> Message-ID: <48FC6C03.60909@fedoraproject.org> Jonas Karlsson wrote: > What I never seen in the Fedora updates (within a release) are major > release upgrades of packages. Example: Openoffice.org is releasing v3, > but that will never make it into the updates of F9, (might be wrong > here!) to get upgrades like this, one has to manually install it or > switch to F10. Incorrect. Fedora releases *do* get major revisions as updates. Kernel releases or even major KDE versions have gone into updates for an existing release. We don't push everything as updates however. > Why even have releases... F8, F9 F10 etc.. I guess freezes are good for > making new install media. But shouldn't updates/upgrades be sufficient. > And sometimes on the time line functionallity changes will be part of > that updates/upgrades, called mailestones. Wouldn't this be the ultimate > LTS distro? (It would almost be as an neverending stable version of > rawhide) Never ending "stable version of rawhide" is just not possible. If all major versions are pushed as updates into existing releases, Fedora releases will become just like rawhide ... with the associated fun *and* instability. Rahul From steven.moix at axianet.ch Mon Oct 20 11:41:27 2008 From: steven.moix at axianet.ch (Steven Moix) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:41:27 +0200 Subject: Fedora upgrades and LTS In-Reply-To: <48FC6912.809@fxdev.com> References: <48FC6912.809@fxdev.com> Message-ID: <1224502887.13045.18.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 13:18 +0200, Jonas Karlsson wrote: > What I never seen in the Fedora updates (within a release) are major > release upgrades of packages. Example: Openoffice.org is releasing v3, > but that will never make it into the updates of F9, (might be wrong > here!) to get upgrades like this, one has to manually install it or > switch to F10. It happens sometimes, Firefox 2 to 3 was an example if I remember correctly. The problem with OpenOffice is the number of dependencies. Try a "yum update --enablerepo=rawhide openoffice*" and you'll see the problem. The main problem here is that your needs (an up to date Desktop Fedora) may not be the same as other people's needs (up to date LAMP install). So it's difficult to decide what to upgrade in the first place. > This is the same for many packages and follows the Fedora > almost bleeding edge frontline philosophy. I like beeing near the front, > using new software, but I'm starting to get tired of upgrading every > 6month to a new release. This is because it's never flawless and ultra > smoth to upgrade (not yet anyway) always some packages thats been > obsolete or replaced, some functionallity thats totally different and > needs a bit of working to upgrade. I've done it over the years, but a > clean install often feels .. cleaner!.. and frankly it's to tiresome to > do a clean install so you go with the upgrade (command line) ... solve > the problems that occur and then continue to work. Why don't you simply have a separate /home and keep a list of installed programs somewhere? A standard Fedora installation + a big yum install yoursoftwarelit and you have a clean new system in about 2-3h. Sometimes there is just a bit of housecleaning to do in you /home. > This is still not > anything for your grandma to attempt (and that is what it should be in > the end) easy and clean! (a notification that appears, F10 is now out! > upgrade system?) So this is something that an LTS version absolutely > must have, new versions of software within a release and a smoth upgrade > path. And smoth upgrades on a system that has additional software > installed, not only a basic system setup. This type of notification would be a good thing, it's exactly what Ubuntu does. I just don't see a solution for tainted systems. Maybe we should have a document on the wiki explaining how to upgrade (if it doesn't already exist). > Even if this isn't any news, upgrading a system has never been a ride in > the park.. not with any os / platform other than maybe a basic install > without additional components. Preupgrade is exactly supposed to do this, but again you can't make miracles on tainted systems. The same happens on Windows, upgrades never work well as soon as you have software installed. > Why even have releases... F8, F9 F10 etc.. I guess freezes are good for > making new install media. But shouldn't updates/upgrades be sufficient. > And sometimes on the time line functionallity changes will be part of > that updates/upgrades, called mailestones. Wouldn't this be the ultimate > LTS distro? (It would almost be as an neverending stable version of > rawhide) People like releases, releases make news on websites, having a reachable goal is the very basic of project management. That's how we freeze rawhide, that's how we debug correctly. Having rawhide and a continuously up to date and stable release are two mutually exclusive things IMO. Steven From bochecha at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 20 12:03:52 2008 From: bochecha at fedoraproject.org (Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:03:52 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Fedora upgrades and LTS In-Reply-To: <1224502887.13045.18.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> References: <48FC6912.809@fxdev.com> <1224502887.13045.18.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> Message-ID: <36774.VwBUX1dRCno=.1224504232.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> >> This is still not >> anything for your grandma to attempt (and that is what it should be in >> the end) easy and clean! (a notification that appears, F10 is now out! >> upgrade system?) So this is something that an LTS version absolutely >> must have, new versions of software within a release and a smoth upgrade >> path. And smoth upgrades on a system that has additional software >> installed, not only a basic system setup. > > This type of notification would be a good thing, it's exactly what > Ubuntu does. http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/08/22/packagekit-03x-new-features/ ---------- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) French Fedora Ambassador ---------- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 20 16:20:11 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:50:11 +0530 Subject: KPackageKit interview Message-ID: <48FCAFBB.7090107@fedoraproject.org> Hi, http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20081020 "As we have seen from our current series on package management tools, the wide variety of options for managing software in distributions can be confusing at times. Isn't there a way of unifying the various utilities under one one set of commands that would work on all the different Linux systems? PackageKit, developed by Fedora, is trying to do just that. Here is a nice interview with the developers of KPackageKit, a graphical front-end to PackageKit. So what exactly is it and how does it work? "PackageKit is an abstraction layer above several package managers (YUM, APT, Conary...). It hence defines a standard interface to interact with the package manager on any system, and allows deeper integration with the desktop. PackageKit is a daemon started on demand via dbus, all the commands to the daemon are also passed via dbus, which makes it platform independent. The actions are controlled by PolicyKit, which allows to define precisely the rights of each user. Historically, PackageKit was shipped with a glib-based abstraction library, and a GTK+ front-end." Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 20 16:21:25 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:51:25 +0530 Subject: K12Linux Release Candidate 1 Now Available! Message-ID: <48FCB005.6080805@fedoraproject.org> Hi, K12Linux, based on Fedora 9 for thin clients has a RC1 release available. https://www.redhat.com/archives/k12linux-devel-list/2008-October/msg00039.html Rahul From arnavkalra007 at gmail.com Tue Oct 21 09:52:33 2008 From: arnavkalra007 at gmail.com (Arnav Kalra) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:22:33 +0530 Subject: fedora updates and lts Message-ID: <5ac533d50810210252k2c9479b0x4824e290e4eca3b4@mail.gmail.com> we can have a version of the distro released every fortnight.it would be just like a jigdo file which states the collection of packages and documentation too. so the dvd u download is the installer + software + documentation . u can upgrade both the docs and software which will actually be rpm installed along with required dependency -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arnavkalra007 at gmail.com Tue Oct 21 09:52:33 2008 From: arnavkalra007 at gmail.com (Arnav Kalra) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:22:33 +0530 Subject: fedora updates and lts Message-ID: <5ac533d50810210252k2c9479b0x4824e290e4eca3b4@mail.gmail.com> we can have a version of the distro released every fortnight.it would be just like a jigdo file which states the collection of packages and documentation too. so the dvd u download is the installer + software + documentation . u can upgrade both the docs and software which will actually be rpm installed along with required dependency -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cra at WPI.EDU Tue Oct 21 12:55:23 2008 From: cra at WPI.EDU (Chuck Anderson) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 08:55:23 -0400 Subject: fedora updates and lts In-Reply-To: <5ac533d50810210252k2c9479b0x4824e290e4eca3b4@mail.gmail.com> References: <5ac533d50810210252k2c9479b0x4824e290e4eca3b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081021125523.GA24297@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 03:22:33PM +0530, Arnav Kalra wrote: > we can have a version of the distro released every fortnight.it would be > just like a jigdo file which states the collection of packages and > documentation too. so the dvd u download is the installer + software + > documentation . u can upgrade both the docs and software which will actually > be rpm installed along with required dependency We already have such a thing. Its called "rawhide" and it gets released every day. BTW, isn't your proposal the exact *opposite* of what this thread is talking about? LTS = long term support. You'd be insane to try to provide long term support for a new release every 14 days... From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 21 14:39:44 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:39:44 +0100 Subject: New Interview! Better startup Message-ID: <507738ef0810210739tdc61927j80e476dc0d34e6f5@mail.gmail.com> After the longest time, I've finally put together a new developer interview. This week's is with Ray Strode and Adam Jackson about the better startup feature. You can find it at http://fedoramagazine.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/interview-fedora-10s-better-startup/ Thanks go to Ray and Adam for helping me out with this. There's another interview to follow next week too, so hopefully I'm geting on a bit of a role with this :) Kindly, Jon From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Oct 21 14:50:07 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:50:07 +0300 Subject: New Interview! Better startup In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810210739tdc61927j80e476dc0d34e6f5@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810210739tdc61927j80e476dc0d34e6f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48FDEC1F.4080600@nicubunu.ro> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > After the longest time, I've finally put together a new developer > interview. This week's is with Ray Strode and Adam Jackson about the > better startup feature. > > You can find it at > http://fedoramagazine.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/interview-fedora-10s-better-startup/ > > Thanks go to Ray and Adam for helping me out with this. There's > another interview to follow next week too, so hopefully I'm geting on > a bit of a role with this :) When/if you get to an interview about the new RPM, I may have some cool photos for you... -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Oct 21 15:04:12 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:04:12 +0300 Subject: New Interview! Better startup In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810210739tdc61927j80e476dc0d34e6f5@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810210739tdc61927j80e476dc0d34e6f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48FDEF6C.60705@nicubunu.ro> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > After the longest time, I've finally put together a new developer > interview. This week's is with Ray Strode and Adam Jackson about the > better startup feature. > > You can find it at > http://fedoramagazine.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/interview-fedora-10s-better-startup/ Jon, can you install a "digg this" widget on the blog? http://digg.com/tools/integrate Or maybe a widget to submit to multiple social networks. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 21 15:11:06 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:11:06 +0100 Subject: New Interview! Better startup In-Reply-To: <48FDEF6C.60705@nicubunu.ro> References: <507738ef0810210739tdc61927j80e476dc0d34e6f5@mail.gmail.com> <48FDEF6C.60705@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <507738ef0810210811t30b86ee1r7043d940451e0cf2@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/21 Nicu Buculei : > Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> >> After the longest time, I've finally put together a new developer >> interview. This week's is with Ray Strode and Adam Jackson about the >> better startup feature. >> >> You can find it at >> >> http://fedoramagazine.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/interview-fedora-10s-better-startup/ > > Jon, can you install a "digg this" widget on the blog? > http://digg.com/tools/integrate > Or maybe a widget to submit to multiple social networks. Wish I could. Seeing as we're not on Fedora infra yet, I can only enable what wordpress.com gives, and that doesn't seem to include digg/social network submission :( I agree it would be really nice 'cos I hate doing the submissions myself... Jon From herlo1 at gmail.com Tue Oct 21 15:13:40 2008 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:13:40 -0600 Subject: New Interview! Better startup In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810210811t30b86ee1r7043d940451e0cf2@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810210739tdc61927j80e476dc0d34e6f5@mail.gmail.com> <48FDEF6C.60705@nicubunu.ro> <507738ef0810210811t30b86ee1r7043d940451e0cf2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 9:11 AM, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > 2008/10/21 Nicu Buculei : >> Jonathan Roberts wrote: >>> >>> After the longest time, I've finally put together a new developer >>> interview. This week's is with Ray Strode and Adam Jackson about the >>> better startup feature. >>> >>> You can find it at >>> >>> http://fedoramagazine.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/interview-fedora-10s-better-startup/ >> >> Jon, can you install a "digg this" widget on the blog? >> http://digg.com/tools/integrate >> Or maybe a widget to submit to multiple social networks. > > Wish I could. Seeing as we're not on Fedora infra yet, I can only > enable what wordpress.com gives, and that doesn't seem to include > digg/social network submission :( I agree it would be really nice 'cos > I hate doing the submissions myself... > > Jon Jon, Here's a plugin that works. I've used it before http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/sociable/ From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 21 15:17:20 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:17:20 +0100 Subject: New Interview! Better startup In-Reply-To: References: <507738ef0810210739tdc61927j80e476dc0d34e6f5@mail.gmail.com> <48FDEF6C.60705@nicubunu.ro> <507738ef0810210811t30b86ee1r7043d940451e0cf2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <507738ef0810210817l3501284an9f2ace61959e4bbd@mail.gmail.com> > Here's a plugin that works. I've used it before > > http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/sociable/ Is it possible to use this on wordpress.com? I don't think they let you add extra plugins...? Jon > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From herlo1 at gmail.com Tue Oct 21 15:27:25 2008 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:27:25 -0600 Subject: New Interview! Better startup In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810210817l3501284an9f2ace61959e4bbd@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810210739tdc61927j80e476dc0d34e6f5@mail.gmail.com> <48FDEF6C.60705@nicubunu.ro> <507738ef0810210811t30b86ee1r7043d940451e0cf2@mail.gmail.com> <507738ef0810210817l3501284an9f2ace61959e4bbd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> Here's a plugin that works. I've used it before >> >> http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/sociable/ > > Is it possible to use this on wordpress.com? I don't think they let > you add extra plugins...? > > Jon Oh, I misunderstood. However it seems silly that wordpress.com doesn't provide some sort of tools to help you get more hits. It brings more press and more ads to their site...ah well cheers, Clint From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Oct 21 15:51:57 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:51:57 +0300 Subject: New Interview! Better startup In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810210811t30b86ee1r7043d940451e0cf2@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810210739tdc61927j80e476dc0d34e6f5@mail.gmail.com> <48FDEF6C.60705@nicubunu.ro> <507738ef0810210811t30b86ee1r7043d940451e0cf2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48FDFA9D.8090108@nicubunu.ro> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > 2008/10/21 Nicu Buculei : >> Jon, can you install a "digg this" widget on the blog? >> http://digg.com/tools/integrate >> Or maybe a widget to submit to multiple social networks. > > Wish I could. Seeing as we're not on Fedora infra yet, I can only > enable what wordpress.com gives, and that doesn't seem to include > digg/social network submission :( I agree it would be really nice 'cos > I hate doing the submissions myself... But I think you still can add by hand this code to each post: -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nacross at gmail.com Tue Oct 21 18:12:23 2008 From: nacross at gmail.com (Neville A. Cross) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:12:23 -0600 Subject: Connection Sharing in NetworkManager In-Reply-To: <48F92081.1000401@fedoraproject.org> References: <48F92081.1000401@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > It's as simple as one, two, three." > > Watch the awesome video at > > http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/10/16/video-fedora-10-connection-sharing/ > I watched the video, downloaded the Fedora10 Snapshot2 LiveCD and tried myself... not as simple as one, two, three... Where I can find more info? I tried google, but get too many hits non relevant to this solution. I am planing a Fedora 10 launch party at Managua, Nicaragua. I will love to show during the event a live demonstration of this internet sharing capability. It is a common need for hack-fest, bar-camps or just lan-parties... it will move people. Thanks in advance! -- Neville https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v Linux User # 473217 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Check: http://www.clickmanagua.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 21 18:52:40 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:52:40 -0400 Subject: Connection Sharing in NetworkManager In-Reply-To: References: <48F92081.1000401@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1224615160.25862.167.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 12:12 -0600, Neville A. Cross wrote: > On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Rahul Sundaram > wrote: > > > > It's as simple as one, two, three." > > > > Watch the awesome video at > > > > http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/10/16/video-fedora-10-connection-sharing/ > > > > I watched the video, downloaded the Fedora10 Snapshot2 LiveCD and > tried myself... not as simple as one, two, three... Where I can find > more info? I tried google, but get too many hits non relevant to this > solution. > > I am planing a Fedora 10 launch party at Managua, Nicaragua. I will > love to show during the event a live demonstration of this internet > sharing capability. It is a common need for hack-fest, bar-camps or > just lan-parties... it will move people. You don't include any details about what problems you had, so it's hard to know how to respond. Perhaps you could do the following? (1) Make sure the problem can be duplicated (2)* (preferred) File a bug in Bugzilla that states the problem (3) Email the fedora-desktop-list to bring attention to the issue We certainly want this to work as advertised, in the same way that I witnessed right in front of me when I shot that film myself! ;-) -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nacross at gmail.com Tue Oct 21 21:00:57 2008 From: nacross at gmail.com (Neville A. Cross) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:00:57 -0600 Subject: Connection Sharing in NetworkManager In-Reply-To: <1224615160.25862.167.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <48F92081.1000401@fedoraproject.org> <1224615160.25862.167.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: 2008/10/21 Paul W. Frields : > You don't include any details about what problems you had, so it's hard > to know how to respond. Perhaps you could do the following? I hoped for a manual that I can read. I make ay with network manager, without one, but I feel better having something what does each option and not guessing by trial and error. > > (1) Make sure the problem can be duplicated I am using a live CD, I haven't installed anything into my computer yet. I first tryed with my desktop setting up sharing. I was unsure if it was meant for wifi/eth and eth/eth requiered one more step. Then I tried on my laptop, there I had a clear step to create a new network. It tried to connect but remained unconnected... I guessed that maybe it was not obvious, I used another wifi to explore and see if it was ready, but nothing. My laptop is Toshiba A65 with a wifi Atheros card. I was able to connect to the wifi network from my office with it using the livecd, as I wanted to be sure that it was working properly before asking. > (2)* (preferred) File a bug in Bugzilla that states the problem I am unsure to file a bug, because I do not know what I am doing. If I need to install it to my computer and does not work as livecd. Or if I need to install dhcpd service before going for network sharing. > (3) Email the fedora-desktop-list to bring attention to the issue I will give it another try... and write more details. > > We certainly want this to work as advertised, in the same way that I > witnessed right in front of me when I shot that film myself! ;-) > Thanks for your fast reply. -- Neville https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v Linux User # 473217 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Check: http://www.clickmanagua.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 21 21:46:48 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:46:48 -0400 Subject: Connection Sharing in NetworkManager In-Reply-To: References: <48F92081.1000401@fedoraproject.org> <1224615160.25862.167.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1224625608.23916.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 15:00 -0600, Neville A. Cross wrote: > 2008/10/21 Paul W. Frields : > > You don't include any details about what problems you had, so it's hard > > to know how to respond. Perhaps you could do the following? > > I hoped for a manual that I can read. I make ay with network manager, > without one, but I feel better having something what does each option > and not guessing by trial and error. > > > > > (1) Make sure the problem can be duplicated > > I am using a live CD, I haven't installed anything into my computer yet. > I first tryed with my desktop setting up sharing. I was unsure if it > was meant for wifi/eth and eth/eth requiered one more step. > Then I tried on my laptop, there I had a clear step to create a new > network. It tried to connect but remained unconnected... I guessed > that maybe it was not obvious, I used another wifi to explore and see > if it was ready, but nothing. > > My laptop is Toshiba A65 with a wifi Atheros card. I was able to > connect to the wifi network from my office with it using the livecd, > as I wanted to be sure that it was working properly before asking. > > > (2)* (preferred) File a bug in Bugzilla that states the problem > > I am unsure to file a bug, because I do not know what I am doing. If I > need to install it to my computer and does not work as livecd. Or if I > need to install dhcpd service before going for network sharing. > > > (3) Email the fedora-desktop-list to bring attention to the issue > > I will give it another try... and write more details. > > > > > We certainly want this to work as advertised, in the same way that I > > witnessed right in front of me when I shot that film myself! ;-) > > > > Thanks for your fast reply. Neville, please share further problems with the fedora-test-list, instead of this one. You'll get faster and better answers there. That list is for people testing the pre-releases of Fedora (and doing other testing). This list is just for marketing Fedora. Join here: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list Thank you! -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Tue Oct 21 23:31:07 2008 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 05:01:07 +0530 Subject: fedora updates and lts In-Reply-To: <20081021125523.GA24297@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> References: <5ac533d50810210252k2c9479b0x4824e290e4eca3b4@mail.gmail.com> <20081021125523.GA24297@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> Message-ID: <78323d480810211631o4eca19bcy4a07ffaf4b8b879f@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Chuck Anderson wrote: > > We already have such a thing. Its called "rawhide" and it gets > released every day. BTW, isn't your proposal the exact *opposite* of > what this thread is talking about? LTS = long term support. You'd be > insane to try to provide long term support for a new release every 14 > days... He is probably talking about 'Marketing it that way' :) Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc From lucas at cefetce.br Wed Oct 22 02:37:55 2008 From: lucas at cefetce.br (Lucas - Linux Sys. Admin (CEFETCE/UAB)) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:37:55 -0300 Subject: New Interview! Better startup In-Reply-To: <48FDEC1F.4080600@nicubunu.ro> References: <507738ef0810210739tdc61927j80e476dc0d34e6f5@mail.gmail.com> <48FDEC1F.4080600@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: nice issue dude :) On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Jonathan Roberts wrote: > >> After the longest time, I've finally put together a new developer >> interview. This week's is with Ray Strode and Adam Jackson about the >> better startup feature. >> >> You can find it at >> >> http://fedoramagazine.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/interview-fedora-10s-better-startup/ >> >> Thanks go to Ray and Adam for helping me out with this. There's >> another interview to follow next week too, so hopefully I'm geting on >> a bit of a role with this :) >> > > When/if you get to an interview about the new RPM, I may have some cool > photos for you... > > -- > nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com > Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- -- -- Atenciosamente, Lucas do Amaral Saboya CEFET-CE - UAB-CE. Linux System Administrator Trainee Fedora Ambassador & Fedora Translator -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonas.karlsson at fxdev.com Wed Oct 22 07:26:49 2008 From: jonas.karlsson at fxdev.com (Jonas Karlsson) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 09:26:49 +0200 Subject: fedora updates and lts In-Reply-To: <78323d480810211631o4eca19bcy4a07ffaf4b8b879f@mail.gmail.com> References: <5ac533d50810210252k2c9479b0x4824e290e4eca3b4@mail.gmail.com> <20081021125523.GA24297@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> <78323d480810211631o4eca19bcy4a07ffaf4b8b879f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48FED5B9.5000503@fxdev.com> Mani A wrote: > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Chuck Anderson wrote: > >> We already have such a thing. Its called "rawhide" and it gets >> released every day. BTW, isn't your proposal the exact *opposite* of >> what this thread is talking about? LTS = long term support. You'd be >> insane to try to provide long term support for a new release every 14 >> days... >> > > He is probably talking about 'Marketing it that way' :) > > Best > > A. Mani > > > Well, actually i'm way out of the box. First forget about releases!! Releases are still in the box way of thinking, and the current development model. What I was saying about LTS was: qoute: (It would almost be as an neverending stable version of rawhide). Let me clarify... In this development model you have only rawhide -> testing -> stable and this is a continuous flow of packages. Never broken by releases. Sometimes updates will change the way things behave and thus require an "mini freeze" this is a point in time where you need all the current updates to be able to get the next updates. Sequential updating that increments the system almost like a release but never breaks the dependencies like a release does. Regards Jonas. From jonas.karlsson at fxdev.com Wed Oct 22 08:02:06 2008 From: jonas.karlsson at fxdev.com (Jonas Karlsson) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:02:06 +0200 Subject: fedora updates and lts In-Reply-To: <78323d480810211631o4eca19bcy4a07ffaf4b8b879f@mail.gmail.com> References: <5ac533d50810210252k2c9479b0x4824e290e4eca3b4@mail.gmail.com> <20081021125523.GA24297@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> <78323d480810211631o4eca19bcy4a07ffaf4b8b879f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48FEDDFE.1090509@fxdev.com> Mani A wrote: > He is probably talking about 'Marketing it that way' :) > > Best > > A. Mani > > marketing can still be done in the traditional way. The users/public as stated before likes releases. To know that something has progressed/changed. But I was in the end more interested in making it easier for the end user! Some may say that this development model (previous mail) isn't possible, it may not be easy, but still possible. It may sometimes require development branching for testing major changes that when finnished get merged to the mail stable branch. That may or may not trigger a mini freeze in the updates (to be able to get update C you must first update from A to B (uhh kind of ms update, but this can be automated)) //Jonas From jonas.karlsson at fxdev.com Wed Oct 22 08:30:14 2008 From: jonas.karlsson at fxdev.com (Jonas Karlsson) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:30:14 +0200 Subject: statistics about marketing list users? Message-ID: <48FEE496.7080002@fxdev.com> Interested to know if there is any statistics about hwo you all are here on the marketing list. If the majority are developers or if there is a mix including people that do not write code. historically speaking developers are good at creating new development models, cool features, new and innovative stuff and be the cowboys on the frontline. One thing that developers has been better and better at over the years is human interaction, this is still an area that it is good to have outsiders for (the grandma example) To not only drive the technical frontline but also the usability. This is still the Linux world so I'd guess the majority are developers and the developers are the rulers, judges and executioners. They are the ones to write and merge the code, to decide which id?as go where. So my question about statistics is about that, to know if there are many people not writing code that actually have any influence about what goes where. anyone more than me interested in this statistics? //Jonas From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Oct 22 08:52:22 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:52:22 +0300 Subject: statistics about marketing list users? In-Reply-To: <48FEE496.7080002@fxdev.com> References: <48FEE496.7080002@fxdev.com> Message-ID: <48FEE9C6.5010600@nicubunu.ro> Jonas Karlsson wrote: > > This is still the Linux world so I'd guess the majority are developers > and the developers are the rulers, judges and executioners. They are the > ones to write and merge the code, to decide which id?as go where. So my > question about statistics is about that, to know if there are many > people not writing code that actually have any influence about what goes > where. So the people writing documentation, translating, packaging, working on the website or creating graphics are developers or not? If someone do such stuff and write some code only once in a while, is he developer or not? > anyone more than me interested in this statistics? I am more curious on how are you intending to count people for such stats. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From jonas.karlsson at fxdev.com Wed Oct 22 09:02:19 2008 From: jonas.karlsson at fxdev.com (Jonas Karlsson) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:02:19 +0200 Subject: statistics about marketing list users? In-Reply-To: <48FEE9C6.5010600@nicubunu.ro> References: <48FEE496.7080002@fxdev.com> <48FEE9C6.5010600@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <48FEEC1B.4040509@fxdev.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Jonas Karlsson wrote: >> >> This is still the Linux world so I'd guess the majority are >> developers and the developers are the rulers, judges and >> executioners. They are the ones to write and merge the code, to >> decide which id?as go where. So my question about statistics is about >> that, to know if there are many people not writing code that actually >> have any influence about what goes where. > > So the people writing documentation, translating, packaging, working > on the website or creating graphics are developers or not? If someone > do such stuff and write some code only once in a while, is he > developer or not? > Good point, documentation and graphics are part of the development process, but they are human interaction designers and artists. But if that person also write "code" once in a while that person is a developer. A non developer never writes code, only do art, text, project managment and whatever there is thats not writing code. >> anyone more than me interested in this statistics? > > I am more curious on how are you intending to count people for such > stats. > You are way ahead of me there, I was still asking about if this has been done! //Jonas From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Oct 22 09:52:31 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:52:31 +0300 Subject: statistics about marketing list users? In-Reply-To: <48FEEC1B.4040509@fxdev.com> References: <48FEE496.7080002@fxdev.com> <48FEE9C6.5010600@nicubunu.ro> <48FEEC1B.4040509@fxdev.com> Message-ID: <48FEF7DF.3030609@nicubunu.ro> Jonas Karlsson wrote: > Nicu Buculei wrote: >> >> I am more curious on how are you intending to count people for such >> stats. >> > You are way ahead of me there, I was still asking about if this has been > done! I don't think this has be done, as it is really hard to do (for the reasons mentioned above). Also, treating non-code developers as second class contributors (which such counting may lead to), is a sure way to drive them away. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From balajig81 at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 10:01:04 2008 From: balajig81 at gmail.com (G) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:31:04 +0530 Subject: statistics about marketing list users? In-Reply-To: <48FEF7DF.3030609@nicubunu.ro> References: <48FEE496.7080002@fxdev.com> <48FEE9C6.5010600@nicubunu.ro> <48FEEC1B.4040509@fxdev.com> <48FEF7DF.3030609@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <6dd1343e0810220301j39cc9679g83a9571e3ca0b3eb@mail.gmail.com> Hi > Also, treating non-code developers as second class contributors (which such > counting may lead to), is a sure way to drive them away. I agree to this point. A very valid point, If we are thinking in terms of giving some credits/points to the contributors, it should include everything. It should also include people who answer questions in the forum. They still contribute Cheers, Balaji On 10/22/08, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Jonas Karlsson wrote: > > > Nicu Buculei wrote: > > > > > > > > I am more curious on how are you intending to count people for such > stats. > > > > > > > > You are way ahead of me there, I was still asking about if this has been > done! > > > > I don't think this has be done, as it is really hard to do (for the reasons > mentioned above). > Also, treating non-code developers as second class contributors (which such > counting may lead to), is a sure way to drive them away. > > -- > nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com > Cool Fedora wallpapers: > http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From jonas.karlsson at fxdev.com Wed Oct 22 11:58:48 2008 From: jonas.karlsson at fxdev.com (Jonas Karlsson) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:58:48 +0200 Subject: statistics about marketing list users? In-Reply-To: <48FEF7DF.3030609@nicubunu.ro> References: <48FEE496.7080002@fxdev.com> <48FEE9C6.5010600@nicubunu.ro> <48FEEC1B.4040509@fxdev.com> <48FEF7DF.3030609@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <48FF1578.4090800@fxdev.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Jonas Karlsson wrote: >> Nicu Buculei wrote: >>> >>> I am more curious on how are you intending to count people for such >>> stats. >>> >> You are way ahead of me there, I was still asking about if this has >> been done! > > I don't think this has be done, as it is really hard to do (for the > reasons mentioned above). > Also, treating non-code developers as second class contributors (which > such counting may lead to), is a sure way to drive them away. > Wow, that should never be the intention to call anyone second class (those hwo interpretrate it that way is seriously wrong..) that would be as saying that a president, investor or anyone of a company is second class... everyone is a contributor! look at the whole picture as a big company, the interesting part is about the decision making process as mentioned in the original mail.. how much influense do a non developer have in the decision making process!?! //Jonas From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 13:15:34 2008 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:45:34 +0530 Subject: statistics about marketing list users? In-Reply-To: <48FEE9C6.5010600@nicubunu.ro> References: <48FEE496.7080002@fxdev.com> <48FEE9C6.5010600@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <78323d480810220615v27e85d43w5348b5279cf5f702@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 2:22 PM, Nicu Buculei wrote: > >> anyone more than me interested in this statistics? > > I am more curious on how are you intending to count people for such stats. > If the raw data is available in some reasonable format (without artificial aggregation), then I can help. Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Oct 22 13:24:45 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:24:45 +0300 Subject: statistics about marketing list users? In-Reply-To: <78323d480810220615v27e85d43w5348b5279cf5f702@mail.gmail.com> References: <48FEE496.7080002@fxdev.com> <48FEE9C6.5010600@nicubunu.ro> <78323d480810220615v27e85d43w5348b5279cf5f702@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48FF299D.9020309@nicubunu.ro> Mani A wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 2:22 PM, Nicu Buculei wrote: >>> anyone more than me interested in this statistics? >> I am more curious on how are you intending to count people for such stats. >> > > If the raw data is available in some reasonable format (without > artificial aggregation), then I can help. Well, getting the data is the hard part, I was questioning here... - the list of subscribers is not something to give away easily, otherwise it will be a delight for spammers; - supposedly you get a list, how you can tell which ones are "developers"? cross-check with the build system? with FAS? What if the developers submit the code only upstream or downstream? -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From bochecha at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 22 13:34:06 2008 From: bochecha at fedoraproject.org (Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:34:06 +0200 (CEST) Subject: statistics about marketing list users? In-Reply-To: <48FF299D.9020309@nicubunu.ro> References: <48FEE496.7080002@fxdev.com> <48FEE9C6.5010600@nicubunu.ro> <78323d480810220615v27e85d43w5348b5279cf5f702@mail.gmail.com> <48FF299D.9020309@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <55726.VwBUX1dRCno=.1224682446.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> > Well, getting the data is the hard part, I was questioning here... > - the list of subscribers is not something to give away easily, > otherwise it will be a delight for spammers; What about EKG ? http://www.michaeldehaan.net/?p=740 Here's an example of what it can do: http://people.fedoraproject.org/~mdehaan/files/ekg/nov2007_oct_13_2008.html > - supposedly you get a list, how you can tell which ones are > "developers"? cross-check with the build system? with FAS? What if the > developers submit the code only upstream or downstream? ---------- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) French Fedora Ambassador ---------- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Oct 22 13:54:12 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:54:12 +0300 Subject: statistics about marketing list users? In-Reply-To: <55726.VwBUX1dRCno=.1224682446.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> References: <48FEE496.7080002@fxdev.com> <48FEE9C6.5010600@nicubunu.ro> <78323d480810220615v27e85d43w5348b5279cf5f702@mail.gmail.com> <48FF299D.9020309@nicubunu.ro> <55726.VwBUX1dRCno=.1224682446.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> Message-ID: <48FF3084.4030801@nicubunu.ro> Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote: >> Well, getting the data is the hard part, I was questioning here... >> - the list of subscribers is not something to give away easily, >> otherwise it will be a delight for spammers; > > What about EKG ? > http://www.michaeldehaan.net/?p=740 Well, of course there are ways to get data, I have access to the list of subscribers where I am moderator... > Here's an example of what it can do: > http://people.fedoraproject.org/~mdehaan/files/ekg/nov2007_oct_13_2008.html You can't make any assumption from domain names, for example we have here people with @rh addresses who are not developers and Red Hat employees using not @rh addresses for the community lists. >> - supposedly you get a list, how you can tell which ones are >> "developers"? cross-check with the build system? with FAS? What if the >> developers submit the code only upstream or downstream? -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 22 13:36:49 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:36:49 +0100 Subject: Hints & Tips suggestions Message-ID: <507738ef0810220636v733a1529gd3e92566be792661@mail.gmail.com> Hey all, I'm looking for suggestions of hints and tips that we could publish to Fedora Magazine? Jon From vfernandezg at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 14:18:05 2008 From: vfernandezg at gmail.com (Victor Fernandez) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:18:05 +0200 Subject: Hints & Tips suggestions In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810220636v733a1529gd3e92566be792661@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810220636v733a1529gd3e92566be792661@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <23edaffd0810220718n63b5cf66icb558bac7efee4a4@mail.gmail.com> Hi Jonathan, sure this link will be useful: http://vfernandezg.blogspot.com/2008/09/contenedores-en-linux.html http://vfernandezg.blogspot.com/2008/09/zfs-on-linux.html http://vfernandezg.blogspot.com/2008/08/fedora-linux-9.html Regards. 2008/10/22 Jonathan Roberts > Hey all, > > I'm looking for suggestions of hints and tips that we could publish to > Fedora Magazine? > > Jon > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Victor M. Fernandez http://vfernandezg.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bochecha at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 22 14:25:00 2008 From: bochecha at fedoraproject.org (Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:25:00 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Hints & Tips suggestions In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810220636v733a1529gd3e92566be792661@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810220636v733a1529gd3e92566be792661@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <51834.VwBUX1dRCno=.1224685500.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> > Hey all, > > I'm looking for suggestions of hints and tips that we could publish to > Fedora Magazine? - how are menus managed (.desktop files) - using pkcon instead of yum - switch backends of Totem (maybe only if totem-xine doesn't depend on some stuff found in livna / RPMFusion) - write your own plymouth graphical theme (I read it only means writing a plugin, is it too complicated ?) - Fedora hardening with SecTool (something basic, the tool is really expressive) - make a screencast with istanbul - use your FAS account in ekiga There might be lot's of other stuff too :) We have a french blog translating "Fedora Daily Package" and providing some "Fedora week-endly hints". Their team is really small so they are having a hard time writing something regularly, but I'm sure they have lot's of ideas for content... Regards, ---------- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) French Fedora Ambassador ---------- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Oct 22 14:26:24 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:26:24 +0300 Subject: Hints & Tips suggestions In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810220636v733a1529gd3e92566be792661@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810220636v733a1529gd3e92566be792661@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48FF3810.9020907@nicubunu.ro> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hey all, > > I'm looking for suggestions of hints and tips that we could publish to > Fedora Magazine? Here is a hint, but probably not exactly the kind of hint you asked for: set a queue (it may be a wiki page or comments on a blog article) where people submit their hints and you select and publish. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Oct 22 14:51:52 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:51:52 +0300 Subject: Hints & Tips suggestions In-Reply-To: <48FF3810.9020907@nicubunu.ro> References: <507738ef0810220636v733a1529gd3e92566be792661@mail.gmail.com> <48FF3810.9020907@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <48FF3E08.9070104@nicubunu.ro> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> Hey all, >> >> I'm looking for suggestions of hints and tips that we could publish to >> Fedora Magazine? > > Here is a hint, but probably not exactly the kind of hint you asked for: > set a queue (it may be a wiki page or comments on a blog article) where > people submit their hints and you select and publish. Replying to myself... this as you will not have to ask the list from time to time, set the queue and leave it on auto-pilot. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From tatadbb at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 15:19:49 2008 From: tatadbb at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mar=EDa_Leandro?=) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:49:49 +1930 Subject: Hints & Tips suggestions In-Reply-To: <48FF3E08.9070104@nicubunu.ro> References: <507738ef0810220636v733a1529gd3e92566be792661@mail.gmail.com> <48FF3810.9020907@nicubunu.ro> <48FF3E08.9070104@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <27a6293b0810220819j2393ba21o8f05edc200d2c791@mail.gmail.com> I write a little config help to use a genius tablet;you cant talk about new hardware too. 2008/10/23 Nicu Buculei > Nicu Buculei wrote: > >> Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> >>> Hey all, >>> >>> I'm looking for suggestions of hints and tips that we could publish to >>> Fedora Magazine? >>> >> >> Here is a hint, but probably not exactly the kind of hint you asked for: >> set a queue (it may be a wiki page or comments on a blog article) where >> people submit their hints and you select and publish. >> > > Replying to myself... this as you will not have to ask the list from time > to time, set the queue and leave it on auto-pilot. > > > -- > nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com > Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://www.iseit.net http://www.latinux.org http://www.latinux.com http://www.fedora-ve.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MariaLeandro LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 "Be yourself... Don't be anyone else" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 21:15:17 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 00:15:17 +0300 Subject: Estimating the Total Development Cost of a Linux Distribution Message-ID: <9d2c731f0810221415t405e513emad2fa96c027d052d@mail.gmail.com> To All Interested: New whitepaper by the Linux Foundation based on an analysis of what it would cost to develop Fedora 9: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/publications/estimatinglinux.php "In 2002, David A. Wheeler published a well-regarded study that examined the Software Lines of Code present in a typical Linux distribution. His findings? The total development cost represented in a typical Linux distribution was $1.2 billion. We've used his tools and method to update these findings. Using the same tools, we estimate that it would take approximately $10.8 billion to build the Fedora 9 distribution in today's dollars, with today's software development costs." Enjoy, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project PS - My son, Mike, brought this to my attention. Thanks, Mike! From slasherzee at yahoo.com Thu Oct 23 03:56:37 2008 From: slasherzee at yahoo.com (Doug Berry) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Developers vs Grandmas Message-ID: <681078.47209.qm@web63507.mail.re1.yahoo.com> >>Jonas wrote: >historically speaking developers are good at creating new development >models, cool features, new and innovative stuff and be the cowboys on >the frontline. One thing that developers has been better and better at >over the years is human interaction, this is still an area that it is >good to have outsiders for (the grandma example) To not only drive the >technical frontline but also the usability. >> >They are the ones to write and merge the code, to decide which id?as go >where. So my question about statistics is about that, to know if there >are many people not writing code that actually have any influence about >what goes where. Hi, I'm new here, but a long-time Fedora user. I think Jonas raised a very valid point about the needs of the end-user (grandma's) and are they being adequately voiced within the Fedora community. I'm an author and book designer, and I could not write a line of code, if it led to a nightly date with Keira Knightley. (Sorry) Not that I am disparaging developers, far from it. They are the backbone of the Linux world, and FOSS! But it is the end-user that actually uses our software: or not. Input about their needs and habits is vital. Let me give an example: Fedora 8-KDE, the GIMP spin-off Krita. Great little version except that it was almost un-usable for a real artist. Why, because the pop-up menu boxes, you needed to do the work, obstructed the image area. Sometimes, they got so big you couldn't even see the right scroll-bar. You were forever moving them around; the only other choice was to turn them all off. They would not slide behind the image window. That one flaw, in an otherwise great piece of software, ruined my experience and led me to yum in the Gimp. I imagined, at the time, the developers simply did not realize how such a thing might effect the whole thing in totality. Probably because they were not artists and too busy writing code and not doing art. That particular problem was fixed in newer versions, but the point is still valid. If that one detail happened to a new Fedora user who was an artist, we might just have drove her back to Daddy Bill. Please do not think that I am disparaging KDE. KDE rocks my world. Take Ktorrent for example. What can I say about that beauty, except eternal hugs and kisses to whoever created it. Anyway. I realize the code-writers cannot be to theoretical; they are limited by what they can do and not always by what they would like to do. But marketing is not just about providing products to a fickle user-audience that knows it has choices and wants to be pampered. It is vital to create cutting-edge software that people can depend on and work with. And to do that the code-writers need input from their grandma. -- w Douglas Berry -- slasherzee at fedoraproject.org From rdieter at math.unl.edu Thu Oct 23 11:52:58 2008 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 06:52:58 -0500 Subject: Developers vs Grandmas References: <681078.47209.qm@web63507.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Doug Berry wrote: > Let me give an example: Fedora 8-KDE, the GIMP spin-off Krita. Great > little version except that it was almost un-usable for a real artist. Why, > because the pop-up menu boxes, you needed to do the work, obstructed the > image area. Sometimes, they got so big you couldn't even see the right > scroll-bar. You were forever moving them around; the only other choice was > to turn them all off. They would not slide behind the image window. > > That one flaw, in an otherwise great piece of software, ruined my > experience Excellent feedback... has this been voiced to outside of this forum to someone that could do something about it? Hint Hint... :) I'm sure koffice dev's would be happy to hear it. -- Rex From david at gnsa.us Thu Oct 23 14:50:48 2008 From: david at gnsa.us (David Nalley) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:50:48 -0400 Subject: Developers vs Grandmas In-Reply-To: <681078.47209.qm@web63507.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <681078.47209.qm@web63507.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 11:56 PM, Doug Berry wrote: >>>Jonas wrote: >>historically speaking developers are good at creating new development >>models, cool features, new and innovative stuff and be the cowboys on >>the frontline. One thing that developers has been better and better at >>over the years is human interaction, this is still an area that it is >>good to have outsiders for (the grandma example) To not only drive the >>technical frontline but also the usability. >>> >>They are the ones to write and merge the code, to decide which id?as go >where. So my question about statistics is about that, to know if there >are many people not writing code that actually have any influence about >what goes where. > > Hi, I'm new here, but a long-time Fedora user. I think Jonas raised a very valid point about the needs of the end-user (grandma's) and are they being adequately voiced within the Fedora community. > > I'm an author and book designer, and I could not write a line of code, if it led to a nightly date with Keira Knightley. (Sorry) > > Not that I am disparaging developers, far from it. They are the backbone of the Linux world, and FOSS! But it is the end-user that actually uses our software: or not. Input about their needs and habits is vital. > > Let me give an example: Fedora 8-KDE, the GIMP spin-off Krita. Great little version except that it was almost un-usable for a real artist. Why, because the pop-up menu boxes, you needed to do the work, obstructed the image area. Sometimes, they got so big you couldn't even see the right scroll-bar. You were forever moving them around; the only other choice was to turn them all off. They would not slide behind the image window. > > That one flaw, in an otherwise great piece of software, ruined my experience and led me to yum in the Gimp. I imagined, at the time, the developers simply did not realize how such a thing might effect the whole thing in totality. Probably because they were not artists and too busy writing code and not doing art. That particular problem was fixed in newer versions, but the point is still valid. If that one detail happened to a new Fedora user who was an artist, we might just have drove her back to Daddy Bill. > > Please do not think that I am disparaging KDE. KDE rocks my world. Take Ktorrent for example. What can I say about that beauty, except eternal hugs and kisses to whoever created it. > > Anyway. I realize the code-writers cannot be to theoretical; they are limited by what they can do and not always by what they would like to do. But marketing is not just about providing products to a fickle user-audience that knows it has choices and wants to be pampered. It is vital to create cutting-edge software that people can depend on and work with. And to do that the code-writers need input from their grandma. While I don't know that this is the proper list for discussion - I'd agree that the 'grandmas' and other end-users can offer valuable input. Part of the problem is most of the time they don't communicate the problems they are having which could probably be fixed. So that poses the question how do they have influence and power to get involved? The answer is pretty simple - they file bugs, they become involved in the process. The perception of developers alone wielding the power to direct a project is probably an accurate reflection of reality - but only because others aren't getting involved. For instance, the problem you cite above with Krita - did you file a bug against it? If you did, that's great. If you didn't - how do you expect your perspective and the problems you have to be known? David Nalley From herlo1 at gmail.com Thu Oct 23 14:56:26 2008 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 08:56:26 -0600 Subject: Developers vs Grandmas In-Reply-To: References: <681078.47209.qm@web63507.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 8:50 AM, David Nalley wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 11:56 PM, Doug Berry wrote: >>>>Jonas wrote: >>>historically speaking developers are good at creating new development >>>models, cool features, new and innovative stuff and be the cowboys on >>>the frontline. One thing that developers has been better and better at >>>over the years is human interaction, this is still an area that it is >>>good to have outsiders for (the grandma example) To not only drive the >>>technical frontline but also the usability. >>>> >>>They are the ones to write and merge the code, to decide which id?as go >where. So my question about statistics is about that, to know if there >are many people not writing code that actually have any influence about >what goes where. >> >> Hi, I'm new here, but a long-time Fedora user. I think Jonas raised a very valid point about the needs of the end-user (grandma's) and are they being adequately voiced within the Fedora community. >> >> I'm an author and book designer, and I could not write a line of code, if it led to a nightly date with Keira Knightley. (Sorry) >> >> Not that I am disparaging developers, far from it. They are the backbone of the Linux world, and FOSS! But it is the end-user that actually uses our software: or not. Input about their needs and habits is vital. >> >> Let me give an example: Fedora 8-KDE, the GIMP spin-off Krita. Great little version except that it was almost un-usable for a real artist. Why, because the pop-up menu boxes, you needed to do the work, obstructed the image area. Sometimes, they got so big you couldn't even see the right scroll-bar. You were forever moving them around; the only other choice was to turn them all off. They would not slide behind the image window. >> >> That one flaw, in an otherwise great piece of software, ruined my experience and led me to yum in the Gimp. I imagined, at the time, the developers simply did not realize how such a thing might effect the whole thing in totality. Probably because they were not artists and too busy writing code and not doing art. That particular problem was fixed in newer versions, but the point is still valid. If that one detail happened to a new Fedora user who was an artist, we might just have drove her back to Daddy Bill. >> >> Please do not think that I am disparaging KDE. KDE rocks my world. Take Ktorrent for example. What can I say about that beauty, except eternal hugs and kisses to whoever created it. >> >> Anyway. I realize the code-writers cannot be to theoretical; they are limited by what they can do and not always by what they would like to do. But marketing is not just about providing products to a fickle user-audience that knows it has choices and wants to be pampered. It is vital to create cutting-edge software that people can depend on and work with. And to do that the code-writers need input from their grandma. > > > While I don't know that this is the proper list for discussion - I'd > agree that the 'grandmas' and other end-users can offer valuable > input. Part of the problem is most of the time they don't communicate > the problems they are having which could probably be fixed. So that > poses the question how do they have influence and power to get > involved? The answer is pretty simple - they file bugs, they become > involved in the process. The perception of developers alone wielding > the power to direct a project is probably an accurate reflection of > reality - but only because others aren't getting involved. For > instance, the problem you cite above with Krita - did you file a bug > against it? If you did, that's great. If you didn't - how do you > expect your perspective and the problems you have to be known? > > > David Nalley And I will make quite the opposite argument. If you are a grandma, how are you to know that logging bugs will help your situation? I think this is an opportunity for us as ambassadors to make inroads with our families and get them involved in the process. Without average users providing perspective, how do we plan to make an operating system to accommodate their needs as well? Cheers, Clint From bochecha at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 23 15:15:41 2008 From: bochecha at fedoraproject.org (Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:15:41 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Developers vs Grandmas In-Reply-To: References: <681078.47209.qm@web63507.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47490.VwBUX1dRCno=.1224774941.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> > And I will make quite the opposite argument. If you are a grandma, > how are you to know that logging bugs will help your situation? I > think this is an opportunity for us as ambassadors to make inroads > with our families and get them involved in the process. Without > average users providing perspective, how do we plan to make an > operating system to accommodate their needs as well? "Mummy, when you have a problem with your computer, you go to this website, you select the component that is in fault, the version of the OS, the architecture, and then you specify your problem". Now, if my mother ever manages to fill a bug report ("what does arch mean ? How do I know which component is faulty ?"), it will look like: "J'ai cliqu? sur 'machin', ?a marche pas". Yes, my mother doesn't speak english. But that's no problem as the bug zappers are great and will translate the report for the devs ! Here is what it means in english: "I clicked on 'stuff' and it doesn't work". Yeah, grandma input will definitely be useful :-/ The problem here is that we want feedback from the most basic end-users with the least knowledge possible, but we definitely don't have the tools required for that (and I doubt it is even possible to create such tools that would not require massive human interaction with the end-user). Not an easy problem to solve... ---------- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) French Fedora Ambassador ---------- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin From lfelipebm at yahoo.com.br Thu Oct 23 16:43:18 2008 From: lfelipebm at yahoo.com.br (Luis Felipe Marzagao) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:43:18 -0300 Subject: Developers vs Grandmas Message-ID: <4900A9A6.7050401@yahoo.com.br> I think this is an important issue. I must say it?s impressive how Fedora has been changing and giving much more attention, on each realease, to the needs of end-users. We don?t need to go very far. If we compare FC5 and F10, we can see there are huge differences in terms of end-user support. NetworkManager is one great example. Although this has been really nice, I think there are things to improve. I?m always hiting on the same key when it comes to end-users. I know Fedora cannot (and should not) go away from its objectives (which is the very reason of its success), but paying attention to the end-user voice should be added as one *serious* project objective also. I mean, side by side with "smooth updates", "rapid evolution" and the other good Fedora principles. I don?t have any doubts about the quality of the software behind Fedora. And I?m aware a lot of people don?t mind if Fedora has a lot of end-users or not. And that?s what I think should be changed. Fedora should seek for increasing the number of end-users. And that?s only possible when it receives, with an open spirit, and put to consideration, the end-users demands. I?m not saying it?s not done at all. I?m only suggesting it should be added as a main goal. Doug Berry escreveu: >>> Jonas wrote: >>> >> historically speaking developers are good at creating new development >> models, cool features, new and innovative stuff and be the cowboys on >> the frontline. One thing that developers has been better and better at >> over the years is human interaction, this is still an area that it is >> good to have outsiders for (the grandma example) To not only drive the >> technical frontline but also the usability. >> >> They are the ones to write and merge the code, to decide which id?as go >where. So my question about statistics is about that, to know if there >are many people not writing code that actually have any influence about >what goes where. >> > > Hi, I'm new here, but a long-time Fedora user. I think Jonas raised a very valid point about the needs of the end-user (grandma's) and are they being adequately voiced within the Fedora community. > > I'm an author and book designer, and I could not write a line of code, if it led to a nightly date with Keira Knightley. (Sorry) > > Not that I am disparaging developers, far from it. They are the backbone of the Linux world, and FOSS! But it is the end-user that actually uses our software: or not. Input about their needs and habits is vital. > > Let me give an example: Fedora 8-KDE, the GIMP spin-off Krita. Great little version except that it was almost un-usable for a real artist. Why, because the pop-up menu boxes, you needed to do the work, obstructed the image area. Sometimes, they got so big you couldn't even see the right scroll-bar. You were forever moving them around; the only other choice was to turn them all off. They would not slide behind the image window. > > That one flaw, in an otherwise great piece of software, ruined my experience and led me to yum in the Gimp. I imagined, at the time, the developers simply did not realize how such a thing might effect the whole thing in totality. Probably because they were not artists and too busy writing code and not doing art. That particular problem was fixed in newer versions, but the point is still valid. If that one detail happened to a new Fedora user who was an artist, we might just have drove her back to Daddy Bill. > > Please do not think that I am disparaging KDE. KDE rocks my world. Take Ktorrent for example. What can I say about that beauty, except eternal hugs and kisses to whoever created it. > > Anyway. I realize the code-writers cannot be to theoretical; they are limited by what they can do and not always by what they would like to do. But marketing is not just about providing products to a fickle user-audience that knows it has choices and wants to be pampered. It is vital to create cutting-edge software that people can depend on and work with. And to do that the code-writers need input from their grandma. > > -- w Douglas Berry -- > slasherzee at fedoraproject.org __________________________________________________ Fa?a liga??es para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ From herlo1 at gmail.com Thu Oct 23 18:04:15 2008 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:04:15 -0600 Subject: Developers vs Grandmas In-Reply-To: <47490.VwBUX1dRCno=.1224774941.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> References: <681078.47209.qm@web63507.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <47490.VwBUX1dRCno=.1224774941.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 9:15 AM, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote: >> And I will make quite the opposite argument. If you are a grandma, >> how are you to know that logging bugs will help your situation? I >> think this is an opportunity for us as ambassadors to make inroads >> with our families and get them involved in the process. Without >> average users providing perspective, how do we plan to make an >> operating system to accommodate their needs as well? > > "Mummy, when you have a problem with your computer, you go to this > website, you select the component that is in fault, the version of the OS, > the architecture, and then you specify your problem". > > Now, if my mother ever manages to fill a bug report ("what does arch mean > ? How do I know which component is faulty ?"), it will look like: > "J'ai cliqu? sur 'machin', ?a marche pas". > Yes, my mother doesn't speak english. But that's no problem as the bug > zappers are great and will translate the report for the devs ! > > Here is what it means in english: > "I clicked on 'stuff' and it doesn't work". > > Yeah, grandma input will definitely be useful :-/ Not in that form she won't, which was pretty much my point. Grandma needs a 'did you do this?, then this?, then this?' step-by-step questionnaire asking her for her input (or something like that). We must make it simple, or be the middleman. > The problem here is that we want feedback from the most basic end-users > with the least knowledge possible, but we definitely don't have the tools > required for that (and I doubt it is even possible to create such tools > that would not require massive human interaction with the end-user). One idea that came out of FUDCon F10 was FedoraFamily[1]. One idea was we could have a support channel. From the user's side a support icon could be placed on the top task bar (in GNOME anyway) which would open a web page with FAQs and a support decision tree, but if they were truly stuck, they could click 'chat with fedora support' and be brought in touch with someone. This support channel would provide chat support to something like #fedora with an alert to the ops that a request for support was in #fedorasupport-somerandomnumber (or something). Someone manning #fedora could essentially go into this private room and help the user. There are several tricky parts with this; 1 The implication that Fedora support would possibly help people not on current supported versions of Fedora, and what the process would be to help get them to these newer versions 2 The support queue is already lengthy in #fedora 3 When questions arise that are outside of the support Fedora provides, how to proceed 4 VOIP would be a good idea when connectivity is not working... 5 This doesn't necessarily solve the problem of logging bugs from grandma, but puts them in touch with a Fedoran who can help gather the correct info and log a bug on their behalf or something. > Not an easy problem to solve... Nope it sure isn't, but I like the FedoraFamily idea and was hoping for more participation. Maybe now is a good time to restart this idea? Cheers, Clint 1- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraFamily From kwade at redhat.com Thu Oct 23 19:34:23 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:34:23 -0700 Subject: Developers vs Grandmas In-Reply-To: <4900A9A6.7050401@yahoo.com.br> References: <4900A9A6.7050401@yahoo.com.br> Message-ID: <1224790463.21380.352.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, 2008-10-23 at 13:43 -0300, Luis Felipe Marzagao wrote: > I think this is an important issue. I must say it?s impressive how > Fedora has been changing and giving much more attention, on each > realease, to the needs of end-users. We don?t need to go very far. If we > compare FC5 and F10, we can see there are huge differences in terms of > end-user support. NetworkManager is one great example. In many cases, Fedora is just the face for upstream software development. Take GNOME as an example -- there is a project with a strong opinion about user interface design and human interaction. We're not adding much value on top of that, except to channel bugs back to GNOME. I think we need to be clear about which problems we can solve within _this_ project. > Although this has been really nice, I think there are things to improve. > I?m always hiting on the same key when it comes to end-users. I know > Fedora cannot (and should not) go away from its objectives (which is the > very reason of its success), but paying attention to the end-user voice > should be added as one *serious* project objective also. I mean, side by > side with "smooth updates", "rapid evolution" and the other good Fedora > principles. > > I don?t have any doubts about the quality of the software behind Fedora. > And I?m aware a lot of people don?t mind if Fedora has a lot of > end-users or not. And that?s what I think should be changed. Fedora > should seek for increasing the number of end-users. And that?s only > possible when it receives, with an open spirit, and put to > consideration, the end-users demands. I?m not saying it?s not done at > all. I?m only suggesting it should be added as a main goal. I think we are safer leaving that goal to the upstream projects we adopt from. Let us channel user experience back to GNOME, KDE, et al, and all the smaller applications. I do think that having something such as, "Grow quantity of consuming end-users by focusing on their demands," is going to be at direct odds with the rest of the project objectives. We cannot effectively test the quality of the latest GNOME and KDE interface, for example, if we are not willing to put it out there as-is and see what happens. If we feel we need to "adjust" such software to match end-user demands directly, we begin a very slippery process. It might appear successful at first, as it is for other distros, but in the long run, it is a failing proposition. This is an evolutionary process. We need to *first* improve the quality of tools that Fedora contributors use. We need to make it simple for people who help in #fedora to file and track bugs, etc. As we have success there, we can push those tools closer and closer to the edge where the end-user lives. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Oct 23 19:42:01 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:42:01 -0700 Subject: statistics about marketing list users? In-Reply-To: <48FF1578.4090800@fxdev.com> References: <48FEE496.7080002@fxdev.com> <48FEE9C6.5010600@nicubunu.ro> <48FEEC1B.4040509@fxdev.com> <48FEF7DF.3030609@nicubunu.ro> <48FF1578.4090800@fxdev.com> Message-ID: <1224790921.21380.361.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 13:58 +0200, Jonas Karlsson wrote: > > > Wow, that should never be the intention to call anyone second class > (those hwo interpretrate it that way is seriously wrong..) that would be > as saying that a president, investor or anyone of a company is second > class... everyone is a contributor! look at the whole picture as a big > company, the interesting part is about the decision making process as > mentioned in the original mail.. how much influense do a non developer > have in the decision making process!?! Actually quite a bit. First, I contend that because someone may have mucked around with code, that does *not* make them a developer. Ask Paul Frields, current Project Leader, former Project Board member. He has mucked about with code, but does not consider himself a developer. I'm even more in that camp. I do *everything* in Fedora (practically) except develop code and package software, the latter more from laziness and time factors. (I'm using myself as an example because I am a Board member and long time leader in Docs, Marketing, etc.) Also, in Fedora we tend to call people 'developers' who mainly package code from other developers. Many packagers are more system administrators than developers, in their Fedora work or $dayjob. Just clarifying that since it appears you are coming with a preset conclusion about how Fedora is directed. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Oct 23 19:45:26 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:45:26 -0700 Subject: statistics about marketing list users? In-Reply-To: <48FEF7DF.3030609@nicubunu.ro> References: <48FEE496.7080002@fxdev.com> <48FEE9C6.5010600@nicubunu.ro> <48FEEC1B.4040509@fxdev.com> <48FEF7DF.3030609@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1224791126.21380.365.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 12:52 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote: > I don't think this has be done, as it is really hard to do (for the > reasons mentioned above). For those familiar with the Join page ... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join ... the goal there has always been to move toward a wizard-like tool. Ask people what interests them, what skills they have, and what labels they put on themselves. Capture that and store it with their user data. In addition, we would have a way to add to the list of skills and abilities. This is for more practical purposes, such as, "I need to find an expert in FooBaz," but it also gives us a good idea of the shape of our community over time. What we are missing is someone to do the actual work of making a wizard and developing the infrastructure in to the account system. Naturally, data gathering would be optional; it is just another way people can contribute information to Fedora. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Oct 23 19:50:44 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:50:44 -0700 Subject: Fedora 10 tour? In-Reply-To: References: <1224149422.28571.217.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1224791444.21380.369.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 12:54 -0600, Clint Savage wrote: > 2008/10/16 Karsten 'quaid' Wade : > > Anyone working on the Fedora 10 tour? > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tours/Fedora9 > > > > I'm going to put a better URL for F10[1] in the release notes, and put a > > blank page there. > > > > Does this belong on the Marketing tasks? > > I could take this on as it's something I don't mind doing. I'm gonna > do an ogg of the installation and firstboot in the next couple days. > > Seems like I'll have to do the ogg video twice if I do it now. Should > I base it upon the F-10 Beta now and then redo the views when the GA > release comes out? Screenshots will be pretty simple, so I'll go > ahead and get those done ASAP. Yes, screenshots are easier, although it would be fun to link from there to specific screencasts we have. Hopefully screenshots taken now still work, although are we able tos ee the full F10 theme? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lfbm.andamentos at gmail.com Thu Oct 23 23:26:46 2008 From: lfbm.andamentos at gmail.com (Luis Felipe Marzagao) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:26:46 -0200 Subject: Developers vs Grandmas In-Reply-To: <1224790463.21380.352.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <4900A9A6.7050401@yahoo.com.br> <1224790463.21380.352.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <49010836.2030201@yahoo.com.br> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From duffy at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 24 02:02:57 2008 From: duffy at fedoraproject.org (Mairin Duffy) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:02:57 -0400 Subject: four f's poster designs Message-ID: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> Hey folks, I put together some designs for the four f's posters. They are *very* different than our infinity freedom community ones. Because they are such a departure (a lot less shiny) and a little weird, I won't be broken-hearted if you hate them, just let me know. I designed them so you could use any of them alone, or you can use them together and connect them to make an even bigger poster. They are also designed so they are more of a backdrop than a main event. Influences include sari fabric (do you see it?), Red Hat's website background, and quilts! You'll see what I mean when you look at them, I think/hope. Anyhow, here's the individual posters. There's one for each f, then there are two that have all four f's on them: http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/individual%20posters/ Here's what they look like connected to make a bigger poster and what they look like lined up horizontally: http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/four-fs-four-posters.png Let me know what you think. If we want to go for another look let's talk about the kind of look/feel we should try. Any Fedora Ambassadors reading this, I'd especially like to hear what direction you think we should go in as you're the folks with these posters at events competing with other booths/tables. ~m From lday at redhat.com Fri Oct 24 02:09:48 2008 From: lday at redhat.com (Leigh Cantrell Day) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:09:48 -0400 Subject: four f's poster designs In-Reply-To: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> References: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <49012E6C.8050000@redhat.com> Mairin -- these are just fabulous (IMHO, ie, not an artist or designer)! Could see these icons tell the story in so many use cases, alone and combined. Really great work... leigh Mairin Duffy wrote: > Hey folks, > > I put together some designs for the four f's posters. They are *very* > different than our infinity freedom community ones. Because they are > such a departure (a lot less shiny) and a little weird, I won't be > broken-hearted if you hate them, just let me know. I designed them so > you could use any of them alone, or you can use them together and > connect them to make an even bigger poster. They are also designed so > they are more of a backdrop than a main event. Influences include sari > fabric (do you see it?), Red Hat's website background, and quilts! > You'll see what I mean when you look at them, I think/hope. > > Anyhow, here's the individual posters. There's one for each f, then > there are two that have all four f's on them: > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/individual%20posters/ > > Here's what they look like connected to make a bigger poster and what > they look like lined up horizontally: > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/four-fs-four-posters.png > > Let me know what you think. If we want to go for another look let's talk > about the kind of look/feel we should try. Any Fedora Ambassadors > reading this, I'd especially like to hear what direction you think we > should go in as you're the folks with these posters at events competing > with other booths/tables. > > ~m From wdc at MIT.EDU Fri Oct 24 02:31:41 2008 From: wdc at MIT.EDU (William Cattey) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:31:41 -0400 Subject: four f's poster designs In-Reply-To: <49012E6C.8050000@redhat.com> References: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> <49012E6C.8050000@redhat.com> Message-ID: <7700D4B9-6BB6-4D91-BE69-B9C8325AF28D@mit.edu> +1 You have a great eye and a great style, Mairin. -Bill ---- William Cattey Linux Platform Coordinator MIT Information Services & Technology N42-040M, 617-253-0140, wdc at mit.edu http://web.mit.edu/wdc/www/ On Oct 23, 2008, at 10:09 PM, Leigh Cantrell Day wrote: > Mairin -- these are just fabulous (IMHO, ie, not an artist or > designer)! Could see these icons tell the story in so many use > cases, alone and combined. > > Really great work... > > leigh > > > Mairin Duffy wrote: >> Hey folks, >> I put together some designs for the four f's posters. They are >> *very* different than our infinity freedom community ones. Because >> they are such a departure (a lot less shiny) and a little weird, I >> won't be broken-hearted if you hate them, just let me know. I >> designed them so you could use any of them alone, or you can use >> them together and connect them to make an even bigger poster. They >> are also designed so they are more of a backdrop than a main >> event. Influences include sari fabric (do you see it?), Red Hat's >> website background, and quilts! You'll see what I mean when you >> look at them, I think/hope. >> Anyhow, here's the individual posters. There's one for each f, >> then there are two that have all four f's on them: >> http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/individual%20posters/ >> Here's what they look like connected to make a bigger poster and >> what they look like lined up horizontally: >> http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/four-fs-four- >> posters.png >> Let me know what you think. If we want to go for another look >> let's talk about the kind of look/feel we should try. Any Fedora >> Ambassadors reading this, I'd especially like to hear what >> direction you think we should go in as you're the folks with these >> posters at events competing with other booths/tables. >> ~m > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list From aks.abhishek at gmail.com Fri Oct 24 02:33:15 2008 From: aks.abhishek at gmail.com (Abhishek Singh) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:18:15 +0545 Subject: four f's poster designs In-Reply-To: <7700D4B9-6BB6-4D91-BE69-B9C8325AF28D@mit.edu> References: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> <49012E6C.8050000@redhat.com> <7700D4B9-6BB6-4D91-BE69-B9C8325AF28D@mit.edu> Message-ID: <73396bd30810231933v36650181s99129b5dbb83a7f9@mail.gmail.com> +1 You have a really amazing design perspective Mairin. _________________________________________________________ Regards, Abhishek Singh /******************************************** * Fedora 9 (Sulphur) has released * * http://fedoraproject.org * ********************************************/ On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 8:16 AM, William Cattey wrote: > +1 > > You have a great eye and a great style, Mairin. > > -Bill > > ---- > > William Cattey > Linux Platform Coordinator > MIT Information Services & Technology > > N42-040M, 617-253-0140, wdc at mit.edu > http://web.mit.edu/wdc/www/ > > > > > On Oct 23, 2008, at 10:09 PM, Leigh Cantrell Day wrote: > > Mairin -- these are just fabulous (IMHO, ie, not an artist or designer)! >> Could see these icons tell the story in so many use cases, alone and >> combined. >> >> Really great work... >> >> leigh >> >> >> Mairin Duffy wrote: >> >>> Hey folks, >>> I put together some designs for the four f's posters. They are *very* >>> different than our infinity freedom community ones. Because they are such a >>> departure (a lot less shiny) and a little weird, I won't be broken-hearted >>> if you hate them, just let me know. I designed them so you could use any of >>> them alone, or you can use them together and connect them to make an even >>> bigger poster. They are also designed so they are more of a backdrop than a >>> main event. Influences include sari fabric (do you see it?), Red Hat's >>> website background, and quilts! You'll see what I mean when you look at >>> them, I think/hope. >>> Anyhow, here's the individual posters. There's one for each f, then there >>> are two that have all four f's on them: >>> http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/individual%20posters/ >>> Here's what they look like connected to make a bigger poster and what >>> they look like lined up horizontally: >>> http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/four-fs-four-posters.png >>> Let me know what you think. If we want to go for another look let's talk >>> about the kind of look/feel we should try. Any Fedora Ambassadors reading >>> this, I'd especially like to hear what direction you think we should go in >>> as you're the folks with these posters at events competing with other >>> booths/tables. >>> ~m >>> >> >> -- >> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list >> Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list >> > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Fri Oct 24 02:51:52 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:51:52 -0500 Subject: four f's poster designs In-Reply-To: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> References: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20081024025152.GB2108@gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 10:02:57PM -0400, Mairin Duffy wrote: > I put together some designs for the four f's posters. They are *very* > different than our infinity freedom community ones. Because they are > such a departure (a lot less shiny) and a little weird, I won't be > broken-hearted if you hate them, just let me know. I designed them so > you could use any of them alone, or you can use them together and > connect them to make an even bigger poster. They are also designed so > they are more of a backdrop than a main event. Influences include sari > fabric (do you see it?), Red Hat's website background, and quilts! > You'll see what I mean when you look at them, I think/hope. > I saw these and my mouth was gaping open. These are very, very, very, very, very, very cool! Now I want to frame them and put them in my room. -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Oct 24 03:00:57 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul Frields) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:00:57 -0400 Subject: four f's poster designs In-Reply-To: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> References: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 2008-10-23 at 22:02 -0400, Mairin Duffy wrote: > Hey folks, > > I put together some designs for the four f's posters. They are *very* > different than our infinity freedom community ones. Because they are > such a departure (a lot less shiny) and a little weird, I won't be > broken-hearted if you hate them, just let me know. I designed them so > you could use any of them alone, or you can use them together and > connect them to make an even bigger poster. They are also designed so > they are more of a backdrop than a main event. Influences include sari > fabric (do you see it?), Red Hat's website background, and quilts! > You'll see what I mean when you look at them, I think/hope. > > Anyhow, here's the individual posters. There's one for each f, then > there are two that have all four f's on them: > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/individual%20posters/ > > Here's what they look like connected to make a bigger poster and what > they look like lined up horizontally: > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/four-fs-four-posters.png > > Let me know what you think. If we want to go for another look let's talk > about the kind of look/feel we should try. Any Fedora Ambassadors > reading this, I'd especially like to hear what direction you think we > should go in as you're the folks with these posters at events competing > with other booths/tables. Mairin, I don't know what to say other than I am completely IN AWE. These are beautiful! I love everything about them -- * the bubbles in the background * the callouts that still let you see the whole message on each of the four posters * the wonderful iconography * the way you can turn the quartet into one big mega-poster (collectible stickers, anyone?) Can I make one *teeny tiny* suggestion which you can take or leave? It might be worthwhile to put in the corner of each poster an actual complete Fedora infinity bubble, maybe the size of 2x2 of the background bubbles. You could put it in a different place for each poster, but maybe the corner opposite the quarter-infinity logo would make sense. I am dazzled beyond belief! -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From ianweller at gmail.com Fri Oct 24 04:14:16 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:14:16 -0500 Subject: four f's poster designs In-Reply-To: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> References: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20081024041416.GA2902@gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 10:02:57PM -0400, Mairin Duffy wrote: > Let me know what you think. If we want to go for another look let's talk > about the kind of look/feel we should try. Any Fedora Ambassadors > reading this, I'd especially like to hear what direction you think we > should go in as you're the folks with these posters at events competing > with other booths/tables. > Quick thought -- how large will the two-line text be for each poster? I didn't notice it until I looked at the individual posters. If they can't be read from about 6 feet away, I think they need to be enlarged or removed... -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Fri Oct 24 04:20:20 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:20:20 -0500 Subject: four f's poster designs In-Reply-To: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> References: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20081024042019.GB2902@gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 10:02:57PM -0400, Mairin Duffy wrote: > Let me know what you think. If we want to go for another look let's talk > about the kind of look/feel we should try. Any Fedora Ambassadors > reading this, I'd especially like to hear what direction you think we > should go in as you're the folks with these posters at events competing > with other booths/tables. > Sorry for sending so many emails, but the perfectionist in me is screaming... First, shouldn't the large Fedora infinity symbol be split across the four posters so that the centers of the strokes of the 'f' are halfway split over the borders? Right now it's out of balance. Second, the smaller quad-bubble sets don't line up; the one with the text inside it sticks out farther than the other three. (Perhaps this should also be applied to the larger one too, so that the margins between each bubble is even.) If I'm not making myself clear, I can mock up some illustrations. -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Fri Oct 24 05:44:38 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 00:44:38 -0500 Subject: four f's poster designs In-Reply-To: <49014F99.2080806@linuxgrrl.com> References: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> <20081024041416.GA2902@gmail.com> <49014F99.2080806@linuxgrrl.com> Message-ID: <20081024054429.GA3767@gmail.com> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 12:31:21AM -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > I was thinking these would be printed at maybe 20"x30" or maybe larger > proportions. These are just rough cuts so they do need some padding to > fit that ratio, right now they scale to 20"x~24". At 20"x24", the two > rows of text together are (if I'm measuring right) about 1.5" tall so > I'm thinking not readable from 6 feet away. > > Do you think they'd work if we just took the text out? > > Maybe it could be resized and the little sound bites shortened even > more, into 2-3 word phrases? > Well, if those are that small, then is the text in the bubbles (i.e., 'FEATURES') large enough? Should they be reprinted at about the same transparency as the reprinted symbol for the foundation? Or something? Back on the blurbs, they can definitely be shortened. What I think they should be (mostly adapted from mo's blurbs): freedom: "freedom trumps conveinence" # bit iffy on the word 'trumps', but it's all I could think of friends: "friends around the world" features: "fedora can do it" first: "followed, not following" -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From johannbg at hi.is Fri Oct 24 10:28:23 2008 From: johannbg at hi.is (=?UTF-8?B?IkrDs2hhbm4gQi4gR3XDsG11bmRzc29uIg==?=) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:28:23 +0000 Subject: Developers vs Grandmas In-Reply-To: <49010836.2030201@yahoo.com.br> References: <4900A9A6.7050401@yahoo.com.br> <1224790463.21380.352.camel@calliope.phig.org> <49010836.2030201@yahoo.com.br> Message-ID: <4901A347.7030303@hi.is> Luis Felipe Marzagao wrote: > Exactly! It's clear it's not in the project objective to alter > upstream software. And in fact I agree it shouldn't be! > > The trouble is the end-user doesn't even know what upstream means. In > fact, I think the end-user won't even want to know what it means, as > long as the system is running fine. For him, Fedora is an operating > system. And the GNOME example is very good for this matter. There are > somethings that don't imply altering the core of upstream projects in > order to make the "out of the box" user experience more happy :) > > A single line, for example, could improve the user experience when > entering GNOME on Fedora: > > gconftool-2 -s -t bool /apps/nautilus/preferences/always_use_browser true > > Bingo! A single line (maybe with some other adjustments) in any > rc.local file or any other place specifically designded by Fedora > Project should make the end-user experience a lot better. And it does > not require any upstream intervention or any opinion change by GNOME > upstream team. And is very simple to maintain. And that's it, the > end-user would enter Fedora for the first time and would not complain > about a zilion windows opening every time he clicks on a folder. > > It's just an example, but my point is there are small things that > makes the user experience better and does not require huge changes on > coding. I think this is the kind of problem Fedora Project should pay > attention to, as you adequately put. > I agree 100% here. There are bunch of little things we could do to make Fedora more user friendly to the end-user. ( Actually basing on my own experience with end-users Gnome has begun going backwards on usability it has become so simple that is hard to use. End users expect certain options, buttons to be there along with hints if uncertain of how to do things ) Gather faq statistics from the Fedora forum and #fedora channel and address those issues. ( if possible ). It also has to be realized that developers are end-users too and if Fedora does not make good enough first impression to them, how can the project expect them to get involved? Best regards Johann B. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: johannbg.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 372 bytes Desc: not available URL: From linux.rafa at gmail.com Fri Oct 24 13:13:09 2008 From: linux.rafa at gmail.com (Rafael Gomes) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:13:09 -0300 Subject: Developers vs Grandmas In-Reply-To: <4901A347.7030303@hi.is> References: <4900A9A6.7050401@yahoo.com.br> <1224790463.21380.352.camel@calliope.phig.org> <49010836.2030201@yahoo.com.br> <4901A347.7030303@hi.is> Message-ID: <7256ccd50810240613n4f378a64tea69320d4336d0f5@mail.gmail.com> I agree 100% too, but we can do one of the two options: First, ask to upstream change this options to improve the life of end-users or change this options in Fedora. 2008/10/24 "J?hann B. Gu?mundsson" : > Luis Felipe Marzagao wrote: >> >> Exactly! It's clear it's not in the project objective to alter upstream >> software. And in fact I agree it shouldn't be! >> >> The trouble is the end-user doesn't even know what upstream means. In >> fact, I think the end-user won't even want to know what it means, as long as >> the system is running fine. For him, Fedora is an operating system. And the >> GNOME example is very good for this matter. There are somethings that don't >> imply altering the core of upstream projects in order to make the "out of >> the box" user experience more happy :) >> >> A single line, for example, could improve the user experience when >> entering GNOME on Fedora: >> >> gconftool-2 -s -t bool /apps/nautilus/preferences/always_use_browser true >> >> Bingo! A single line (maybe with some other adjustments) in any rc.local >> file or any other place specifically designded by Fedora Project should make >> the end-user experience a lot better. And it does not require any upstream >> intervention or any opinion change by GNOME upstream team. And is very >> simple to maintain. And that's it, the end-user would enter Fedora for the >> first time and would not complain about a zilion windows opening every time >> he clicks on a folder. >> >> It's just an example, but my point is there are small things that makes >> the user experience better and does not require huge changes on coding. I >> think this is the kind of problem Fedora Project should pay attention to, as >> you adequately put. >> > I agree 100% here. > > There are bunch of little things we could do to make Fedora more user > friendly to the end-user. > ( Actually basing on my own experience with end-users Gnome has begun going > backwards on usability > it has become so simple that is hard to use. End users expect certain > options, buttons to be there along > with hints if uncertain of how to do things ) > > Gather faq statistics from the Fedora forum and #fedora channel and address > those issues. > ( if possible ). > > It also has to be realized that developers are end-users too and if Fedora > does not make > good enough first impression to them, how can the project expect them to get > involved? > > Best regards > Johann B. > > > > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Rafael Gomes Consultor em TI Embaixador Fedora LPIC-1 (71) 8709-1289 From foxhaund at gmail.com Fri Oct 24 13:16:24 2008 From: foxhaund at gmail.com (Dmitry Vorotnikov) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 06:16:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <443690133.320445.1224854184039.JavaMail.app@esv4-com10.prod> LinkedIn ------------ Dmitry Vorotnikov requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ S. M. Azam, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Dmitry View invitation from Dmitry Vorotnikov http://www.linkedin.com/e/qBfdqgGDvlIv6qZodFYVqudYvxIv2ooIq45zwRc-uf7yHNBE/blk/814980110_2/cBYMcj4Me3AQcjwLqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ ------------------------------------------ DID YOU KNOW you can be the first to know when a trusted member of your network changes jobs? With Network Updates on your LinkedIn home page, you'll be notified as members of your network change their current position. Be the first to know and reach out! http://www.linkedin.com/ ------ (c) 2008, LinkedIn Corporation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steven.moix at axianet.ch Fri Oct 24 07:23:00 2008 From: steven.moix at axianet.ch (Steven Moix) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 09:23:00 +0200 Subject: four f's poster designs In-Reply-To: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> References: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1224832980.2980.2.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> On Thu, 2008-10-23 at 22:02 -0400, Mairin Duffy wrote: > Hey folks, > ... > > http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/four-fs-four-posters.png Don't ask me why, but they made me think at the Intel Centrino logo (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/d/d1/Intel_Centrino_Logo.svg) Nice and clean design otherwise. Steven From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Oct 24 14:51:11 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 17:51:11 +0300 Subject: four f's poster designs In-Reply-To: <1224832980.2980.2.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> References: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> <1224832980.2980.2.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> Message-ID: <4901E0DF.9060700@nicubunu.ro> Steven Moix wrote: > On Thu, 2008-10-23 at 22:02 -0400, Mairin Duffy wrote: >> Hey folks, >> > ... >> http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/four-fs-four-posters.png > > Don't ask me why, but they made me think at the Intel Centrino logo > (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/d/d1/Intel_Centrino_Logo.svg) I think it is pretty much like http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Image:Artwork_T(2d)Shirt_fudcon-boston-2008-logo.png which is a good thing. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From dpiazza at hotmallo.com Fri Oct 24 15:13:02 2008 From: dpiazza at hotmallo.com (dpiazza) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:13:02 -0700 Subject: four f's poster designs In-Reply-To: <4901E0DF.9060700@nicubunu.ro> References: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> <1224832980.2980.2.camel@hp6710.axianet.ch> <4901E0DF.9060700@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <20081024151242.M80077@hotmallo.com> I love them! I think that they look great! Great job! :) On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 17:51:11 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote > Steven Moix wrote: > > On Thu, 2008-10-23 at 22:02 -0400, Mairin Duffy wrote: > >> Hey folks, > >> > > ... > >> http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/collateral/fourfs/four-fs-four-posters.png > > > > Don't ask me why, but they made me think at the Intel Centrino logo > > (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/d/d1/Intel_Centrino_Logo.svg) > > I think it is pretty much like > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Image:Artwork_T(2d)Shirt_fudcon-boston- > 2008-logo.png which is a good thing. > > -- > nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com > Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 24 18:31:29 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 00:01:29 +0530 Subject: Fedora 10 Snapshot 3; List of new features Message-ID: <49021481.4020803@fedoraproject.org> Hi, This is the last snapshot release before the Fedora 10 preview. The official announcement is at: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2008-October/msg00010.html A blog I ran into about new features: http://blog.taragana.com/index.php/archive/fedora-10-a-detailed-discussion-on-the-features/ Rahul From arnavkalra007 at gmail.com Sat Oct 25 07:06:45 2008 From: arnavkalra007 at gmail.com (Arnav Kalra) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:36:45 +0530 Subject: developers vs grandmas Message-ID: <5ac533d50810250006q6f1e35d4sc1fc062d740b849b@mail.gmail.com> why dont we have a control panel type of thing in which all the bugs are saved and sent to bugzilla whenever that computer connects to internet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Sat Oct 25 17:43:07 2008 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:43:07 -0500 Subject: developers vs grandmas In-Reply-To: <5ac533d50810250006q6f1e35d4sc1fc062d740b849b@mail.gmail.com> References: <5ac533d50810250006q6f1e35d4sc1fc062d740b849b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49035AAB.3060300@prodigy.net.mx> Arnav Kalra escribi?: > why dont we have a control panel type of thing in which all the bugs > are saved and sent to bugzilla whenever that computer connects to > internet Automated submissions are not as reliable as the person in question describing what was s/he doing when the problem showed. From slasherzee at yahoo.com Sun Oct 26 20:39:37 2008 From: slasherzee at yahoo.com (Doug Berry) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 13:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Developers vs Grandmas revisited Message-ID: <529843.78732.qm@web63503.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Hey guys, I was wondering about something. I've downloaded every new distribution off of the Live CD. So after everything is loaded, once you get to your desktop, two things seem to happen: 1) PUP opens up and says: "You have updates," and 2) I go on and spend the next couple of hours house-cleaning, icons on the desktop, setting-up the file manager, etc. So, you know that Desktop icon you click on to write the contents of the Live CD to your hard drive? How about if we come up with several of those? Say, click here to write the two-gig Fedora Office package to your desktop. Or the three-gig Fedora Arts Package? Or Multimedia? And so on.... These packages would have all the core stuff everybody wants, but then be top-heavy with speciality stuff, that would appeal to a certain professions or lively-hoods. The icon could simply trigger a download script in YUM or PUP to download a pre-determined set of packages. And people would still have the basic stuff to play with while the new packages are downloading. Remember that one of the biggest money makers for Daddy Bill is Microsoft Office Suit. People pay a fortune for it, but they are professionals, so it is probably tax deductible. And yet, Open Office has stuff that kicks WOS's butt, but nobody I know of, includes all of OO packages on a distro. In fact, I believe Fedora 9 didn't even have some of the OO packages listed on their Add/Remove Packages application. And this could have the unintended effect of inspiring up-stream development. Since if people know that their stuff is going to be featured on a whole distro, they may buckle down. Seems like a lot of packages are just hanging, and not being worked on or updated. Probably because their developers are to busy, writing the core stuff, or just making a living. This would also mean we would not need all the DVD's, just Live CDs for everybody, and people could get most of the bulk they want via downloads after they have the core packages in place. I don't know, maybe this is a developer's nightmare, or maybe not. What does anyone think? -- w Douglas Berry -- slasherzee at fedoraproject.org -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc URL: From bochecha at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 26 20:55:49 2008 From: bochecha at fedoraproject.org (Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:55:49 +0100 Subject: Developers vs Grandmas revisited In-Reply-To: <529843.78732.qm@web63503.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <529843.78732.qm@web63503.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1225054549.6495.4.camel@horton> Hi, > I was wondering about something. I've downloaded every new distribution off of the Live CD. So after everything is loaded, once you get to your desktop, two things seem to happen: 1) PUP opens up and says: "You have updates," and 2) I go on and spend the next couple of hours house-cleaning, icons on the desktop, setting-up the file manager, etc. Just for the record, Pirut and Pup died. We now use PackageKit. > So, you know that Desktop icon you click on to write the contents of the Live CD to your hard drive? How about if we come up with several of those? Say, click here to write the two-gig Fedora Office package to your desktop. Or the three-gig Fedora Arts Package? Or Multimedia? And so on.... > > These packages would have all the core stuff everybody wants, but then be top-heavy with speciality stuff, that would appeal to a certain professions or lively-hoods. I think that's why we have several spins, one for Gnome, one for KDE, one for astronomy people, one for artists, one for geeks in electronics, etc... > This would also mean we would not need all the DVD's, just Live CDs for everybody, and people could get most of the bulk they want via downloads after they have the core packages in place. Please, let me my DVD. Let me have the joy to select each and every package for hours every 6 months (knowing perfectly that yum will add packages I unchecked for dependencies :) ---------- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) French Fedora Ambassador ---------- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Mon Oct 27 03:55:40 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 22:55:40 -0500 Subject: store SIG? Message-ID: <20081027035540.GA30983@gmail.com> Hey all, I haven't heard a thing about the Store SIG [1] for months. Is that still going on behind the scenes or does it need revived? -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From herlo1 at gmail.com Mon Oct 27 06:07:59 2008 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 00:07:59 -0600 Subject: store SIG? In-Reply-To: <20081027035540.GA30983@gmail.com> References: <20081027035540.GA30983@gmail.com> Message-ID: 2008/10/26 Ian Weller : > Hey all, > > I haven't heard a thing about the Store SIG [1] for months. Is that > still going on behind the scenes or does it need revived? There was some discussion about reviving it FADNA this last month. Not sure there was a conclusion other than to say that we all were interested in discussing it more and getting it going IIRC. Cheers, Clint From red at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 27 09:58:10 2008 From: red at fedoraproject.org (Sandro red Mathys ) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 10:58:10 +0100 (CET) Subject: store SIG? In-Reply-To: References: <20081027035540.GA30983@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5dbd2bad2564cd3c99910c564ca4e328.squirrel@webmail.sandro-mathys.ch> > 2008/10/26 Ian Weller : >> Hey all, >> >> I haven't heard a thing about the Store SIG [1] for months. Is that >> still going on behind the scenes or does it need revived? The Store SIG is pretty much dead, AFAICS. But I'm actually thinking about just opening a store at spreadshirt.net (or similar) for Europe. There's been too much talking about this topic instead of just realizing the simple idea. If nobody has a sound objection, I'm going to propose/discuss this shortly at the upcoming FAD EMEA 2008 in Basel in mid-November before opening such a store for Europe (except France, where such a shop exists already). It's time to act. -- red From mspevack at redhat.com Mon Oct 27 10:17:41 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:17:41 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Ambassadors] Re: store SIG? In-Reply-To: References: <20081027035540.GA30983@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Oct 2008, Clint Savage wrote: > There was some discussion about reviving it FADNA this last month. Not > sure there was a conclusion other than to say that we all were > interested in discussing it more and getting it going IIRC. IMHO, the Store SIG was a more interesting idea before we got to the point where NA and EMEA ambassadors are both regionally self-sufficient in producing all the things they need. It seems like the evolution of Ambassadors may have rendered one of the Store SIG's goals irrelevant. That's not a bad thing -- progress was made on the root problem, just in a different way. Personally, I think the Store SIG can be retired for the time being. --Max From red at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 27 10:26:17 2008 From: red at fedoraproject.org (Sandro red Mathys ) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:26:17 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Ambassadors] Re: store SIG? In-Reply-To: References: <20081027035540.GA30983@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f1ac9bc6586f7737a77f00dba2c9efd.squirrel@webmail.sandro-mathys.ch> > On Mon, 27 Oct 2008, Max Spevack wrote: > IMHO, the Store SIG was a more interesting idea before we got to the > point where NA and EMEA ambassadors are both regionally self-sufficient > in producing all the things they need. I think that's true for ambassadors producing the polos and swag they need for events. But we'd still need a store for people who want to buy some merchandise over the internet. The online store can also offer more different products (with different printings) than we can at an event (because we're restricted in money to stock those things and in space to offer them at the events). From bochecha at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 27 12:34:02 2008 From: bochecha at fedoraproject.org (Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:34:02 +0100 (CET) Subject: Developers vs Grandmas revisited In-Reply-To: <6c8846340810270526x2f426236q1020454fe95cb732@mail.gmail.com> References: <529843.78732.qm@web63503.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <1225054549.6495.4.camel@horton> <6c8846340810270526x2f426236q1020454fe95cb732@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50901.VwBUX1dRCno=.1225110842.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org> > I think OpenOffice.org ought to be by default on the gnome live cd because > everyone I know use it. I think Microsoft Office ought to be by default on each and every Fedora liveCD because everyone I know use it... The question is not what people want, but what Fedora wants to achieve. ;) ---------- Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) French Fedora Ambassador ---------- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 27 16:01:26 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:01:26 -0700 Subject: New Interview! Better startup In-Reply-To: <48FDFA9D.8090108@nicubunu.ro> References: <507738ef0810210739tdc61927j80e476dc0d34e6f5@mail.gmail.com> <48FDEF6C.60705@nicubunu.ro> <507738ef0810210811t30b86ee1r7043d940451e0cf2@mail.gmail.com> <48FDFA9D.8090108@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1225123286.21380.619.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 18:51 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > 2008/10/21 Nicu Buculei : > >> Jon, can you install a "digg this" widget on the blog? > >> http://digg.com/tools/integrate > >> Or maybe a widget to submit to multiple social networks. > > > > Wish I could. Seeing as we're not on Fedora infra yet, I can only > > enable what wordpress.com gives, and that doesn't seem to include > > digg/social network submission :( I agree it would be really nice 'cos > > I hate doing the submissions myself... > > But I think you still can add by hand this code to each post: > > > Can't you put that in to the PHP template? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 27 16:13:52 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:13:52 +0000 Subject: New Interview! Better startup In-Reply-To: <1225123286.21380.619.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <507738ef0810210739tdc61927j80e476dc0d34e6f5@mail.gmail.com> <48FDEF6C.60705@nicubunu.ro> <507738ef0810210811t30b86ee1r7043d940451e0cf2@mail.gmail.com> <48FDFA9D.8090108@nicubunu.ro> <1225123286.21380.619.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <507738ef0810270913l169bbd86p782943e7d794ed19@mail.gmail.com> > Can't you put that in to the PHP template? If we were working on Fedora's servers, yes I think so. As we're on WP.com, I don't think we can without paying... Jon From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 27 16:26:16 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:26:16 -0700 Subject: Developers vs Grandmas In-Reply-To: <7256ccd50810240613n4f378a64tea69320d4336d0f5@mail.gmail.com> References: <4900A9A6.7050401@yahoo.com.br> <1224790463.21380.352.camel@calliope.phig.org> <49010836.2030201@yahoo.com.br> <4901A347.7030303@hi.is> <7256ccd50810240613n4f378a64tea69320d4336d0f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1225124776.21380.627.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, 2008-10-24 at 10:13 -0300, Rafael Gomes wrote: > I agree 100% too, but we can do one of the two options: > > First, ask to upstream change this options to improve the life of > end-users or change this options in Fedora. The confusion I have reading the several replies you are all agreeing to is this: * People agree we need to work with upstream and not change their software, but * People agree we need to change the upstream software For example, changing gconf default behavior is in fact changing the upstream software. Now Nautilus on Fedora would behave differently. Any bug reports need to include a list of all the changes we made to the defaults, giving Fedora more to maintain. All based on some instincts and reports that really should be made as bug reports and observations directly to the upstream! There is very little benefit to Fedora, our users, and the overall community for us to focus on changes we can make to upstream to improve our own user's experience. If they change is valid and worthwhile, it needs to happen in the upstream. - Karsten > 2008/10/24 "J?hann B. Gu?mundsson" : > > Luis Felipe Marzagao wrote: > >> > >> Exactly! It's clear it's not in the project objective to alter upstream > >> software. And in fact I agree it shouldn't be! > >> > >> The trouble is the end-user doesn't even know what upstream means. In > >> fact, I think the end-user won't even want to know what it means, as long as > >> the system is running fine. For him, Fedora is an operating system. And the > >> GNOME example is very good for this matter. There are somethings that don't > >> imply altering the core of upstream projects in order to make the "out of > >> the box" user experience more happy :) > >> > >> A single line, for example, could improve the user experience when > >> entering GNOME on Fedora: > >> > >> gconftool-2 -s -t bool /apps/nautilus/preferences/always_use_browser true > >> > >> Bingo! A single line (maybe with some other adjustments) in any rc.local > >> file or any other place specifically designded by Fedora Project should make > >> the end-user experience a lot better. And it does not require any upstream > >> intervention or any opinion change by GNOME upstream team. And is very > >> simple to maintain. And that's it, the end-user would enter Fedora for the > >> first time and would not complain about a zilion windows opening every time > >> he clicks on a folder. > >> > >> It's just an example, but my point is there are small things that makes > >> the user experience better and does not require huge changes on coding. I > >> think this is the kind of problem Fedora Project should pay attention to, as > >> you adequately put. > >> > > I agree 100% here. > > > > There are bunch of little things we could do to make Fedora more user > > friendly to the end-user. > > ( Actually basing on my own experience with end-users Gnome has begun going > > backwards on usability > > it has become so simple that is hard to use. End users expect certain > > options, buttons to be there along > > with hints if uncertain of how to do things ) > > > > Gather faq statistics from the Fedora forum and #fedora channel and address > > those issues. > > ( if possible ). > > > > It also has to be realized that developers are end-users too and if Fedora > > does not make > > good enough first impression to them, how can the project expect them to get > > involved? > > > > Best regards > > Johann B. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > -- > Rafael Gomes > Consultor em TI > Embaixador Fedora > LPIC-1 > (71) 8709-1289 > -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 27 16:40:00 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:40:00 -0700 Subject: developers vs grandmas In-Reply-To: <49035AAB.3060300@prodigy.net.mx> References: <5ac533d50810250006q6f1e35d4sc1fc062d740b849b@mail.gmail.com> <49035AAB.3060300@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <1225125600.21380.633.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Sat, 2008-10-25 at 12:43 -0500, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > Arnav Kalra escribi?: > > why dont we have a control panel type of thing in which all the bugs > > are saved and sent to bugzilla whenever that computer connects to > > internet > Automated submissions are not as reliable as the person in question > describing what was s/he doing when the problem showed. These are discussions to have on fedora-devel-list. As interesting as it is, nothing that occurs on this list is going to make a difference; marketing does not drive the course of development. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lfelipebm at yahoo.com.br Mon Oct 27 16:56:29 2008 From: lfelipebm at yahoo.com.br (Luis Felipe Marzagao) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:56:29 -0200 Subject: Developers vs Grandmas In-Reply-To: <1225124776.21380.627.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <4900A9A6.7050401@yahoo.com.br> <1224790463.21380.352.camel@calliope.phig.org> <49010836.2030201@yahoo.com.br> <4901A347.7030303@hi.is> <7256ccd50810240613n4f378a64tea69320d4336d0f5@mail.gmail.com> <1225124776.21380.627.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4905F2BD.6030005@yahoo.com.br> I beg to differ regarding this comment: "For example, changing gconf default behavior is in fact changing the upstream software. Now Nautilus on Fedora would behave differently." The Fedora LiveCD, for example, changes default gconf behaviour of turning screen saver lock off, autologin, logos etc. Another single line there changing nautilus wouldn??t imply altering upstream, just as the above changes don??t. Maybe a little effort in some areas like this one should be considered. That is my suggestion. We must also take into consideration that many bug reports remain open forever, without any feedback. I have some like that filed by myself. And it gets worse if the enhancement suggested might go against the upstream??s point of view. Anyway, I think the issue is important and I hope the list receives my comments with an open spirit. All I say is in the best interests of end-users. It??s important such issues are discussed. Thanks a lot for the points that have been made so far. Karsten 'quaid' Wade escreveu: > On Fri, 2008-10-24 at 10:13 -0300, Rafael Gomes wrote: > >> I agree 100% too, but we can do one of the two options: >> >> First, ask to upstream change this options to improve the life of >> end-users or change this options in Fedora. >> > > The confusion I have reading the several replies you are all agreeing to > is this: > > * People agree we need to work with upstream and not change their > software, but > * People agree we need to change the upstream software > > For example, changing gconf default behavior is in fact changing the > upstream software. Now Nautilus on Fedora would behave differently. > Any bug reports need to include a list of all the changes we made to the > defaults, giving Fedora more to maintain. All based on some instincts > and reports that really should be made as bug reports and observations > directly to the upstream! > > There is very little benefit to Fedora, our users, and the overall > community for us to focus on changes we can make to upstream to improve > our own user's experience. If they change is valid and worthwhile, it > needs to happen in the upstream. > > - Karsten > > >> 2008/10/24 "J??hann B. Gu??mundsson" : >> >>> Luis Felipe Marzagao wrote: >>> >>>> Exactly! It's clear it's not in the project objective to alter upstream >>>> software. And in fact I agree it shouldn't be! >>>> >>>> The trouble is the end-user doesn't even know what upstream means. In >>>> fact, I think the end-user won't even want to know what it means, as long as >>>> the system is running fine. For him, Fedora is an operating system. And the >>>> GNOME example is very good for this matter. There are somethings that don't >>>> imply altering the core of upstream projects in order to make the "out of >>>> the box" user experience more happy :) >>>> >>>> A single line, for example, could improve the user experience when >>>> entering GNOME on Fedora: >>>> >>>> gconftool-2 -s -t bool /apps/nautilus/preferences/always_use_browser true >>>> >>>> Bingo! A single line (maybe with some other adjustments) in any rc.local >>>> file or any other place specifically designded by Fedora Project should make >>>> the end-user experience a lot better. And it does not require any upstream >>>> intervention or any opinion change by GNOME upstream team. And is very >>>> simple to maintain. And that's it, the end-user would enter Fedora for the >>>> first time and would not complain about a zilion windows opening every time >>>> he clicks on a folder. >>>> >>>> It's just an example, but my point is there are small things that makes >>>> the user experience better and does not require huge changes on coding. I >>>> think this is the kind of problem Fedora Project should pay attention to, as >>>> you adequately put. >>>> >>>> >>> I agree 100% here. >>> >>> There are bunch of little things we could do to make Fedora more user >>> friendly to the end-user. >>> ( Actually basing on my own experience with end-users Gnome has begun going >>> backwards on usability >>> it has become so simple that is hard to use. End users expect certain >>> options, buttons to be there along >>> with hints if uncertain of how to do things ) >>> >>> Gather faq statistics from the Fedora forum and #fedora channel and address >>> those issues. >>> ( if possible ). >>> >>> It also has to be realized that developers are end-users too and if Fedora >>> does not make >>> good enough first impression to them, how can the project expect them to get >>> involved? >>> >>> Best regards >>> Johann B. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list >>> Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Rafael Gomes >> Consultor em TI >> Embaixador Fedora >> LPIC-1 >> (71) 8709-1289 >> >> __________________________________________________ Fa?a liga??es para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 27 17:13:48 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:13:48 +0000 Subject: Developers vs Grandmas In-Reply-To: <4905F2BD.6030005@yahoo.com.br> References: <4900A9A6.7050401@yahoo.com.br> <1224790463.21380.352.camel@calliope.phig.org> <49010836.2030201@yahoo.com.br> <4901A347.7030303@hi.is> <7256ccd50810240613n4f378a64tea69320d4336d0f5@mail.gmail.com> <1225124776.21380.627.camel@calliope.phig.org> <4905F2BD.6030005@yahoo.com.br> Message-ID: <507738ef0810271013k13145097va3099e05a07a0dfe@mail.gmail.com> > We must also take into consideration that many bug reports remain open > forever, without any feedback. I have some like that filed by myself. And it > gets worse if the enhancement suggested might go against the upstream?s > point of view. The bug triage team are working very hard on this, and if you're interested, I'd suggest you chat to them about ways you can help improve their work further :) > > Anyway, I think the issue is important and I hope the list receives my > comments with an open spirit. All I say is in the best interests of > end-users. It?s important such issues are discussed. As Karsten said, I would definitely recommend taking this conversation to the devel list, as people there are the one's who will implement future changes. Jon From linux at elfshadow.net Mon Oct 27 18:35:56 2008 From: linux at elfshadow.net (Jeffrey Tadlock) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:35:56 -0400 Subject: [Ambassadors] Re: store SIG? In-Reply-To: <5dbd2bad2564cd3c99910c564ca4e328.squirrel@webmail.sandro-mathys.ch> References: <20081027035540.GA30983@gmail.com> <5dbd2bad2564cd3c99910c564ca4e328.squirrel@webmail.sandro-mathys.ch> Message-ID: <10e0a9b00810271135v2c27373oc0dd6ad3bdb41cb2@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 5:58 AM, Sandro red Mathys wrote: > The Store SIG is pretty much dead, AFAICS. But I'm actually thinking about > just opening a store at spreadshirt.net (or similar) for Europe. There's > been too much talking about this topic instead of just realizing the > simple idea. As Clint mentioned the Store SIG was discussed at the FADNA this year in Ohio. I was able to show the various quality of shirts from cafepress and spreadshirt in comparison to a similar shirt actually made at a screen printer. Though the color accuracy of spreadshirt is off a bit, it was deemed close enough to not be a major issue. While setting up the store seems simple there are a couple of details that need decided. One was what potential ramifications does it have on Fedora Project to sell items with a small profit. In the US that would require reporting said profit which Fedora Project is not really in the position to do. The EMEA group would likely be able to work around this by opening the store under their control and having it fall under the non-profit status. We do not have that in the US as of now. The other issue, which largely just requires some organization is to make sure access to the behind the scenes portion of the store is not left to a single person. People get busy and their amount of time to volunteer varies. So having a group of trusted people to manage the store is important as well - again, not a major issue but a decision that does need made. The Store SIG was also attempting to provide a front-end at store.fp.o to lead people to the on demand vendor of choice. That way ambassadors and such could easily refer people to store.fp.o when a person wanted to order an item from the store. Another decision the Store SIG had to reach was whether a single entity could serve everyone. After looking at the various options it is most likely that one store cannot adequately serve all areas of the world. Spreadshirt does lend itself well though to having one based in the European region and a second in the North American region to get started - though they would be two separate stores - they could be given a similar look and feel. Also, the French already have a spreadshirt store, so it might be wise for the EMEA to see about working with them to avoid paying the annual fees to have a customizable store twice. Thanks, Jeffrey From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 27 21:21:22 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 02:51:22 +0530 Subject: Developers vs Grandmas In-Reply-To: <4905F2BD.6030005@yahoo.com.br> References: <4900A9A6.7050401@yahoo.com.br> <1224790463.21380.352.camel@calliope.phig.org> <49010836.2030201@yahoo.com.br> <4901A347.7030303@hi.is> <7256ccd50810240613n4f378a64tea69320d4336d0f5@mail.gmail.com> <1225124776.21380.627.camel@calliope.phig.org> <4905F2BD.6030005@yahoo.com.br> Message-ID: <490630D2.9010508@fedoraproject.org> Luis Felipe Marzagao wrote: > I beg to differ regarding this comment: > > "For example, changing gconf default behavior is in fact changing the > upstream software. Now Nautilus on Fedora would behave differently." > > The Fedora LiveCD, for example, changes default gconf behaviour of > turning screen saver lock off, autologin, logos etc. These changes are made only for the live cd environment to make Fedora more suitable as a live CD. You would lose them all once you install it however. It appears that a nautilus change only for the live cd environment doesn't add any real value and hence changing the default file manager behavior is different from the other non-persistent changes you have pointed out. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 27 21:24:48 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 02:54:48 +0530 Subject: New Interview! Better startup In-Reply-To: <507738ef0810210739tdc61927j80e476dc0d34e6f5@mail.gmail.com> References: <507738ef0810210739tdc61927j80e476dc0d34e6f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <490631A0.4020400@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > After the longest time, I've finally put together a new developer > interview. This week's is with Ray Strode and Adam Jackson about the > better startup feature. > > You can find it at > http://fedoramagazine.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/interview-fedora-10s-better-startup/ > > Thanks go to Ray and Adam for helping me out with this. There's > another interview to follow next week too, so hopefully I'm geting on > a bit of a role with this :) I send it over to http://www.osnews.com/story/20435/Interview_Fedora_10_s_Better_Startup Will send it to LWN and distrowatch as well. If you can submit to Lxer, Linux today and slashdot, that would be good. I suspect slashdot might publish this as well: http://blog.taragana.com/index.php/archive/fedora-10-a-detailed-discussion-on-the-features/ Rahul From lfbm.andamentos at gmail.com Mon Oct 27 21:42:11 2008 From: lfbm.andamentos at gmail.com (Luis Felipe Marzagao) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:42:11 -0200 Subject: Developers vs Grandmas In-Reply-To: <490630D2.9010508@fedoraproject.org> References: <4900A9A6.7050401@yahoo.com.br> <1224790463.21380.352.camel@calliope.phig.org> <49010836.2030201@yahoo.com.br> <4901A347.7030303@hi.is> <7256ccd50810240613n4f378a64tea69320d4336d0f5@mail.gmail.com> <1225124776.21380.627.camel@calliope.phig.org> <4905F2BD.6030005@yahoo.com.br> <490630D2.9010508@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <490635B3.6050802@yahoo.com.br> Sure! But the idea behind it is what is valuable, I think! It shows a simple local file could improve the user experience without having to alter upstream hard-code, and in an easy to maintain manner. Why not do it in a persistent way locally, by Fedora Project, the same way logos, for example, are maintained? Well, if the name of this list is "expanding the Fedora user base", I think this is a tiny thing that would do it. But, anyway, this is just my humble opinion (based on what I hear from users near me). I certainly do not want to populate the wrong list if this is considered to be the case. Thanks for your comments. Rahul Sundaram escreveu: > Luis Felipe Marzagao wrote: >> I beg to differ regarding this comment: >> >> "For example, changing gconf default behavior is in fact changing the >> upstream software. Now Nautilus on Fedora would behave differently." >> >> The Fedora LiveCD, for example, changes default gconf behaviour of >> turning screen saver lock off, autologin, logos etc. > > These changes are made only for the live cd environment to make Fedora > more suitable as a live CD. You would lose them all once you install > it however. It appears that a nautilus change only for the live cd > environment doesn't add any real value and hence changing the default > file manager behavior is different from the other non-persistent > changes you have pointed out. > > Rahul > From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 28 00:24:59 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 05:54:59 +0530 Subject: Developers vs Grandmas In-Reply-To: <490635B3.6050802@yahoo.com.br> References: <4900A9A6.7050401@yahoo.com.br> <1224790463.21380.352.camel@calliope.phig.org> <49010836.2030201@yahoo.com.br> <4901A347.7030303@hi.is> <7256ccd50810240613n4f378a64tea69320d4336d0f5@mail.gmail.com> <1225124776.21380.627.camel@calliope.phig.org> <4905F2BD.6030005@yahoo.com.br> <490630D2.9010508@fedoraproject.org> <490635B3.6050802@yahoo.com.br> Message-ID: <49065BDB.5050801@fedoraproject.org> Luis Felipe Marzagao wrote: > Sure! But the idea behind it is what is valuable, I think! It shows a > simple local file could improve the user experience without having to > alter upstream hard-code, and in an easy to maintain manner. Why not do > it in a persistent way locally, by Fedora Project, the same way logos, > for example, are maintained? Well, if the name of this list is > "expanding the Fedora user base", I think this is a tiny thing that > would do it. But, anyway, this is just my humble opinion (based on what > I hear from users near me). I certainly do not want to populate the > wrong list if this is considered to be the case. Thanks for your comments. If there is value in changing the setting, then there is value in discussing how disruptive it is. IMO, we haven't established that there is enough reasons for changing the settings beyond personal preferences. Since, there is already a discussion on this, in fedora-desktop list, I would recommend joining that if you have additional input. Rahul From red at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 28 08:11:09 2008 From: red at fedoraproject.org (Sandro "red" Mathys) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:11:09 +0100 Subject: [Ambassadors] Re: store SIG? In-Reply-To: <10e0a9b00810271135v2c27373oc0dd6ad3bdb41cb2@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081027035540.GA30983@gmail.com> <5dbd2bad2564cd3c99910c564ca4e328.squirrel@webmail.sandro-mathys.ch> <10e0a9b00810271135v2c27373oc0dd6ad3bdb41cb2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4906C91D.1000504@fedoraproject.org> Jeffrey Tadlock wrote: > (...) sell items with a small profit. In the US that > would require reporting said profit which Fedora Project is not really > in the position to do. The EMEA group would likely be able to work > around this by opening the store under their control and having it > fall under the non-profit status. We do not have that in the US as of > now. Good point. I didn't thought about profit reporting yet, but I thought about having EMEA's association deal with the European store anyway since we need someone to control and distribute the profits. Why not open the NA-store with the EMEA NPO, too? Might make it more difficult or even impossible to have the profits help the NA ambassadors. But at least people in NA would be able to get merchandise stuff (which again is some sort of advertisement for us) which they hardly can nowadays. We could still transfer that store to the NA NPO as soon as one is established. > Another decision the Store SIG had to reach was whether a single > entity could serve everyone. After looking at the various options it > is most likely that one store cannot adequately serve all areas of the > world. I totally agree on this. I actually think that's the point where the Store SIG spent too much time, trying to have one global store. And spreadshirt is really perfectly organized to cover north America and Europe with just two stores. > Also, the French already have a spreadshirt store, so it might be wise > for the EMEA to see about working with them to avoid paying the annual > fees to have a customizable store twice. I think it might prove difficult to do this as the French store collects money for the French association, while the European store is meant to get the EMEA association some money. But we'll look at this - what do you think about that, MrTom? I'd also like to ask spreadshirt if it's possible to have 2 or 3 stores (NA, EU, maybe FR) that have the same items and pricing and only pay the annual fee once...somehow. Or maybe for a reduced fee. -- red From karlie_robinson at webpath.net Tue Oct 28 11:25:08 2008 From: karlie_robinson at webpath.net (Karlie Robinson) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 07:25:08 -0400 Subject: Fedora 10 on SD Card for the XO Message-ID: <4906F694.2080805@webpath.net> Here's the URL for the pre-order SD cards for the XO. http://on-disk.com/product_info.php/products_id/595 This comes about 3 weeks before the One Laptop Per Child Give One Get One promotion starts and exactly 4 weeks until the release of F10. Use this time to encourage people to visit http://laptop.org and talk up just how spectacular the XO is. Remember, there are lots of people out there who will stand in line for days waiting to buy electronics and this is their chance to have something 'exclusive' since the XO isn't something you can buy at your local electronics store. With the F10 option for the XO, adults who may not find the child focused graphical interface called Sugar practical for daily use, Fedora allows the XO to behave in a more familiar way. In this sense, the XO is on-par with any small form factor laptop except your purchase of an XO during the Give One Get One promotion directly effects the lives of children. Again, thinking about all those people who don't think twice about buying smart phones, game systems, and the like - there's no corporate profit with the XO, just a chance to better the lives of children all over the world. ~Karlie Robinson From duffy at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 28 18:40:56 2008 From: duffy at fedoraproject.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:40:56 -0400 Subject: fedora greeting cards Message-ID: <49075CB8.4030909@fedoraproject.org> I had a wonky idea today, I was thinking maybe it might spark another idea. What if we had greetings cards, like season's greetings or happy birthday, that had a nice design on the front (maybe we could use some nice creative commons photos or open clip art designs), had the standard slogan / signing area on the inside right-hand side, and on the inside left hand side had some writing/explanation of where the artwork came from, the license, and how the recipient could scan it in or montage it or do whatever they like under that license. then maybe the back of the card could have a sleeve with a fedora cd (kind of like the money envelope cards, but fedora instead of money ;-) ) Just a weird idea I had in passing. ~m From david at gnsa.us Tue Oct 28 18:45:30 2008 From: david at gnsa.us (David Nalley) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:45:30 -0400 Subject: fedora greeting cards In-Reply-To: <49075CB8.4030909@fedoraproject.org> References: <49075CB8.4030909@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 2:40 PM, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > I had a wonky idea today, I was thinking maybe it might > spark another idea. > > What if we had greetings cards, like season's greetings or > happy birthday, that had a nice design on the front (maybe > we could use some nice creative commons photos or open clip > art designs), had the standard slogan / signing area on the > inside right-hand side, and on the inside left hand side had > some writing/explanation of where the artwork came from, the > license, and how the recipient could scan it in or montage > it or do whatever they like under that license. then maybe > the back of the card could have a sleeve with a fedora cd > (kind of like the money envelope cards, but fedora instead > of money ;-) ) > > Just a weird idea I had in passing. > > ~m I think that's a great idea. I was actually wishing that we had some Fedora Thank You cards. From rishikesh at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 29 03:42:44 2008 From: rishikesh at fedoraproject.org (Rishikesh Sharma) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:12:44 +0530 Subject: fedora greeting cards In-Reply-To: <49075CB8.4030909@fedoraproject.org> References: <49075CB8.4030909@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <7cb778c60810282042k5872a54di2d4756fe7dec5388@mail.gmail.com> You have a point. It's really nice, such idea is to be shared and discussed. We need to forward it to the art team. Rishikesh Sharma Fedora Ambassador Imphal, Manipur. On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 12:10 AM, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > I had a wonky idea today, I was thinking maybe it might > spark another idea. > > What if we had greetings cards, like season's greetings or > happy birthday, that had a nice design on the front (maybe > we could use some nice creative commons photos or open clip > art designs), had the standard slogan / signing area on the > inside right-hand side, and on the inside left hand side had > some writing/explanation of where the artwork came from, the > license, and how the recipient could scan it in or montage > it or do whatever they like under that license. then maybe > the back of the card could have a sleeve with a fedora cd > (kind of like the money envelope cards, but fedora instead > of money ;-) ) > > Just a weird idea I had in passing. > > ~m > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Oct 29 06:58:36 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:58:36 +0200 Subject: fedora greeting cards In-Reply-To: <49075CB8.4030909@fedoraproject.org> References: <49075CB8.4030909@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4908099C.1030500@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > What if we had greetings cards, like season's greetings or > happy birthday, that had a nice design on the front (maybe > we could use some nice creative commons photos or open clip Now you made me think about a Fedora themed Valentine Day card using the characters from my webcomic... and I already have a concept used in the [secret for now] Christmas issue, I can show only a small part of it: http://nicubunu.ro/pictures/rh-santa.png > art designs), had the standard slogan / signing area on the > inside right-hand side, and on the inside left hand side had > some writing/explanation of where the artwork came from, the > license, and how the recipient could scan it in or montage > it or do whatever they like under that license. then maybe > the back of the card could have a sleeve with a fedora cd > (kind of like the money envelope cards, but fedora instead > of money ;-) ) -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From ivazqueznet at gmail.com Wed Oct 29 09:51:46 2008 From: ivazqueznet at gmail.com (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 05:51:46 -0400 Subject: four f's poster designs In-Reply-To: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> References: <49012CD1.2050007@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1225273906.25414.191.camel@ignacio.lan> On Thu, 2008-10-23 at 22:02 -0400, Mairin Duffy wrote: > I put together some designs for the four f's posters. Excellent work as always. I share Ian's concerns about the exact slicing of the logo (midway? Edge? Overlap?), but that's a minor issue. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Thu Oct 30 10:37:04 2008 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:37:04 +0200 Subject: Fedora on Greek media Message-ID: <6d4237680810300337g5c5d5fdv5dbad391e67685a8@mail.gmail.com> A short email to talk a bit about 3 recent Fedora events in Greece: A conference, a radio broadcast and an appearance on TV! Athens Digital Week took place 10 days ago. Max Spevack gave a keynote speech and I presented the Fedora community in a panel about Online communities. 800 flyers, 250 CDs, 1500 stickers, 10.000 mini-newspapers with a short article on our talks. Full recap in Greek and machine translation to English at: * http://dimitris.glezos.com/weblog/2008/10/25/athens-digital-week-recap/. * http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fdimitris.glezos.com%2Fweblog%2F2008%2F10%2F25%2Fathens-digital-week-recap%2F&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=el&tl=en On Thursday I was invited on "Skai 100,3", a popular radio station broadcasting in Athens. We discussed for some minutes about Fedora, Live media, and the Greek Fedora team providing support to users who might need it. Overall a nice discussion, which caused a small surge of email in my inbox about questions on how to install Fedora. Blog post and audiotape link (in Greek, discussion at minutes 10:50-18:00). * http://www.skai.gr/master_avod.php?id=97828&cid=1491&bc=1491&lsc=2 Finally, yesterday we filmed next Monday's "Digital Greece" TV show, which is broadcasted on the National TV channel "ET-1" on 6pm. I was wearing the awesome Fedora ambassadors polo shirt and talked about Fedora, OLPC, and the Fedora Localization Project. The show will be broadcasted on Monday 27/10, 6pm on the "ET-1" TV station. I'll post a link to the video on a blog post when it's available. And that's it from the Greek Fedora embassy. =) -? -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From cmpahar at gmail.com Thu Oct 30 11:08:50 2008 From: cmpahar at gmail.com (Christos Bacharakis) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:08:50 +0200 Subject: Fedora on Greek media In-Reply-To: <6d4237680810300337g5c5d5fdv5dbad391e67685a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <6d4237680810300337g5c5d5fdv5dbad391e67685a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:37 PM, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > A short email to talk a bit about 3 recent Fedora events in Greece: A > conference, a radio broadcast and an appearance on TV! > > Athens Digital Week took place 10 days ago. Max Spevack gave a keynote > speech and I presented the Fedora community in a panel about Online > communities. 800 flyers, 250 CDs, 1500 stickers, 10.000 > mini-newspapers with a short article on our talks. Full recap in Greek > and machine translation to English at: > > * http://dimitris.glezos.com/weblog/2008/10/25/athens-digital-week-recap/ > . > * > http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fdimitris.glezos.com%2Fweblog%2F2008%2F10%2F25%2Fathens-digital-week-recap%2F&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=el&tl=en > > On Thursday I was invited on "Skai 100,3", a popular radio station > broadcasting in Athens. We discussed for some minutes about Fedora, > Live media, and the Greek Fedora team providing support to users who > might need it. Overall a nice discussion, which caused a small surge > of email in my inbox about questions on how to install Fedora. > > Blog post and audiotape link (in Greek, discussion at minutes 10:50-18:00). > > * http://www.skai.gr/master_avod.php?id=97828&cid=1491&bc=1491&lsc=2 > > Finally, yesterday we filmed next Monday's "Digital Greece" TV show, > which is broadcasted on the National TV channel "ET-1" on 6pm. I was > wearing the awesome Fedora ambassadors polo shirt and talked about > Fedora, OLPC, and the Fedora Localization Project. > > The show will be broadcasted on Monday 27/10, 6pm on the "ET-1" TV > station. I'll post a link to the video on a blog post when it's > available. > > And that's it from the Greek Fedora embassy. =) > > -? > > > -- > Dimitris Glezos > Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B > http://dimitris.glezos.com/ > > "He who gives up functionality for ease of use > loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) > -- > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > Great work Dimitris! Good news for Fedora from Serres city too. We recently organized a full day install fest at our local University creating over 35 Fedora 9 Live USB Sticks. More details: http://cmpahar.wordpress.com/2008/10/25/installfest2/ And don't forget to mention the upcoming Fedora 10 Release Party at Thessaloniki. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/ReleaseParty/F10/Thessaloniki -- Christos Bacharakis cmpahar at fedoraproject.org http://cmpahar.wordpress.com GPG Key: CCFA0AEB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From luizaugustomdasilva at gmail.com Thu Oct 30 13:08:08 2008 From: luizaugustomdasilva at gmail.com (Luiz Augusto Machado da Silva) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:08:08 -0300 Subject: Presentation Message-ID: <415d5c5a0810300608y2edbbbb2mb6d80ad64161159b@mail.gmail.com> Hello Fedora community, My name is Luiz Augusto Machado, I am Brazilian, working with the Fedora since version Fedora Core 2 and am looking to actively participate in the community Fedora, I hope to community My English is not the best, but I think this is not the most important at the moment. A strong hug to all. -- -- Regards Luiz Augusto Machado Sysadmin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From esteban.fedora at gmail.com Thu Oct 30 13:15:43 2008 From: esteban.fedora at gmail.com (esteban@fedoraproject.org) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 14:15:43 +0100 Subject: Presentation In-Reply-To: <415d5c5a0810300608y2edbbbb2mb6d80ad64161159b@mail.gmail.com> References: <415d5c5a0810300608y2edbbbb2mb6d80ad64161159b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Bem-vindo Luis! Welcome my friend, it is good to have more people to work with the project fedora! Att Esteban B. 2008/10/30 Luiz Augusto Machado da Silva > Hello Fedora community, > > My name is Luiz Augusto Machado, I am Brazilian, working with the Fedora > since version Fedora Core 2 and am looking to actively participate in the > community Fedora, I hope to community > > My English is not the best, but I think this is not the most important at > the moment. > > A strong hug to all. > > > -- > -- > > Regards > Luiz Augusto Machado > Sysadmin > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Fedora Project Ambassadors https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EstebanBaez Fedora Paraguay Info Web Site http://sites.google.com/site/fedoraparaguay/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kn.naresh at gmail.com Thu Oct 30 13:11:44 2008 From: kn.naresh at gmail.com (Naresh KN) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:41:44 +0530 Subject: Presentation In-Reply-To: <415d5c5a0810300608y2edbbbb2mb6d80ad64161159b@mail.gmail.com> References: <415d5c5a0810300608y2edbbbb2mb6d80ad64161159b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3d9e71570810300611m29e00293ke30d0e47fe2dc3ef@mail.gmail.com> Welcome to the Fedora Family. And that strong hug was choking :) 2008/10/30 Luiz Augusto Machado da Silva > Hello Fedora community, > > My name is Luiz Augusto Machado, I am Brazilian, working with the Fedora > since version Fedora Core 2 and am looking to actively participate in the > community Fedora, I hope to community > > My English is not the best, but I think this is not the most important at > the moment. > > A strong hug to all. > > > -- > -- > > Regards > Luiz Augusto Machado > Sysadmin > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mspevack at redhat.com Thu Oct 30 13:57:27 2008 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 14:57:27 +0100 (CET) Subject: Presentation In-Reply-To: <415d5c5a0810300608y2edbbbb2mb6d80ad64161159b@mail.gmail.com> References: <415d5c5a0810300608y2edbbbb2mb6d80ad64161159b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Oct 2008, Luiz Augusto Machado da Silva wrote: > Hello Fedora community, > > My name is Luiz Augusto Machado, I am Brazilian, working with the > Fedora since version Fedora Core 2 and am looking to actively > participate in the community Fedora, I hope to community > > My English is not the best, but I think this is not the most important > at the moment. Welcome! You should speak to Rodrigo Padula (in the Cc) -- he is Brazilian also, and leads all Fedora community efforts in that region. --Max From jaa at redhat.com Thu Oct 30 14:47:56 2008 From: jaa at redhat.com (Jack Aboutboul) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:47:56 -0400 Subject: Fedora Marketing Meeting Today 10/30 Message-ID: <4909C91C.5010507@redhat.com> Hey All, We are going to get together today for a meeting. Where: irc.freenode.net #fedora-meeting When: 19:00 GMT (3PM EDT) See you all there! Jack From larry.cafiero at gmail.com Thu Oct 30 16:45:22 2008 From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 09:45:22 -0700 Subject: Fedora Marketing Meeting Today 10/30 In-Reply-To: <4909C91C.5010507@redhat.com> References: <4909C91C.5010507@redhat.com> Message-ID: <7a0d56080810300945vf341feas9475e160cd1ddd7d@mail.gmail.com> In the process of moving, so I can't make it today. However, I will post to the list within the next 24 hours (depending on when I can unpack the computer) a brief report on Lindependence Portland and my talk with a graduate class at Oregon State (as well as a presentation to OSU LUG). Larry Cafiero On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 7:47 AM, Jack Aboutboul wrote: > Hey All, > > We are going to get together today for a meeting. > > Where: irc.freenode.net #fedora-meeting > When: 19:00 GMT (3PM EDT) > > > See you all there! > > Jack > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From johannbg at hi.is Fri Oct 31 08:46:51 2008 From: johannbg at hi.is (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22J=F3hann_B=2E_Gu=F0mundsson=22?=) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 08:46:51 +0000 Subject: "Fedora 7 to 10 Benchmarks" Message-ID: <490AC5FB.2010902@hi.is> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=fedora_test_2008&num=1 JBG -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: johannbg.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 356 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Fri Oct 31 10:38:10 2008 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:38:10 +0200 Subject: Fedora on Greek media In-Reply-To: <6d4237680810300337g5c5d5fdv5dbad391e67685a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <6d4237680810300337g5c5d5fdv5dbad391e67685a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6d4237680810310338y3dc26e96hdb72f99c25539ae@mail.gmail.com> 2008/10/30 Dimitris Glezos : > Athens Digital Week took place 10 days ago. Max Spevack gave a keynote > speech and I presented the Fedora community in a panel about Online > communities. 800 flyers, 250 CDs, 1500 stickers, 10.000 > mini-newspapers with a short article on our talks. Full recap in Greek > and machine translation to English at: > > * http://dimitris.glezos.com/weblog/2008/10/25/athens-digital-week-recap/. > * http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fdimitris.glezos.com%2Fweblog%2F2008%2F10%2F25%2Fathens-digital-week-recap%2F&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=el&tl=en I forgot to mention that both talks have been recorded and are available at: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/793139 Max's presentation is at 2:48:20 (1:15h, English) and mine at 0:07:20 (8', Greek). -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 31 15:58:59 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 21:28:59 +0530 Subject: Announcing the Fedora Sugar Spin Message-ID: <490B2B43.6040100@fedoraproject.org> Hi, OLPC Project uses a derivative of Fedora as the operating system for it's XO laptops. One of the unique features of these laptops, is an environment called Sugar developed as a collaboration between Red Hat and other developers and now being maintained by Sugarlabs, an independent non-profit organization. The Fedora Project has released a new spin, a live CD with the Sugar environment by default and a number of additional activities including sugar-browse based on XULRunner and sugar-write based on Abiword. Furthermore, the Fedora liveusb-creator software has been updated to include support for this spin. For people developing the Sugar environment or those curious about it but don't have an OLPC system, this live cd can be a handy way to dive in. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2008-October/msg00012.html Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 31 16:09:47 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 21:39:47 +0530 Subject: A Closer look at Red Hat's Plymouth Message-ID: <490B2DCB.4090109@fedoraproject.org> Hi Detailed look at how Plymouth works. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=fedora_plymouth&num=1 "Back in July we shared Red Hat's intentions to replace RHGB with Plymouth, a new graphical boot process that is able to benefit from the latest Linux graphics capabilities. Red Hat engineers had primarily designed Plymouth around a forthcoming feature we've talked about quite a bit known as kernel mode-setting, which provides end-users with a cleaner and flicker-free boot experience. In September in The State of Kernel Mode-Setting we then shared more information on Plymouth along with a brief video. Most recently we published another video of Plymouth that shows the tighter integration between the boot process and starting the GNOME Display Manager. Today though we are looking at Plymouth and its different plug-ins along with providing a few more videos." Rahul