From mel at redhat.com Thu Oct 1 03:39:33 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 23:39:33 -0400 Subject: about interviewing In-Reply-To: <12d8a2fa0909301747q5fd79627x686fb9a29fcb03a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <12d8a2fa0909301747q5fd79627x686fb9a29fcb03a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC42475.2070706@redhat.com> On 09/30/2009 08:47 PM, Tareq Al Jurf wrote: > Hi Mel i remember last month we discussed interviews with fedora > users i searched for the messages but couldn't find them :( so can u > send me the link that has the questions i'm going to interview a > couple of arabs Fedora users with skype webcam and i need some ideas I can't recall a link with questions off the top of my head, but some questions that usually make for good interviews... * Tell me the story of how you started using Fedora. * Tell me the story of how you started contributing to the Fedora community. What are you proudest of? * Show me something you've done in Fedora - what's your favorite program and how do you use it? Or what's the coolest thing you've done with Fedora that you think other people may not know about yet? * What questions do you have about Fedora? * What could we do better? * What would you like to see happen in Fedora in the future - both the distribution and the community? Basically, get people to tell you stories about their Fedora experience, and you should be all set. Copying the Marketing list in case anyone has more ideas - in general, you might get a faster response from the list than from my crowded inbox. :) Also, I'm not sure if we have a preferred free alternative to Skype - does anyone have any suggestions? --Mel From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Oct 1 07:05:19 2009 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 10:05:19 +0300 Subject: Fedora People on PBOOK-flickr In-Reply-To: <27a6293b0909301308u185c4fd2neda2d8971c04c376@mail.gmail.com> References: <27a6293b0909301308u185c4fd2neda2d8971c04c376@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC454AF.7090809@nicubunu.ro> On 09/30/2009 11:08 PM, Mar?a Leandro wrote: > I've using flickr since some months and I think that this could help > us to get more photos for our picture book. People just need to add > their pictures to the group and read the description. I need a little > help with the full terms, so if you have ideas... go ahead :D I can't post there any more :p > Also I add a pic, so if you're ready to start sharing them, just log > into flickr and add your photos to the group. > > http://www.flickr.com/groups/fedora_people/ I think you should outline the needs of release forms in the group rules and link to the official page/collection. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/ photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/ my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/ From sdaly.be at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 07:18:09 2009 From: sdaly.be at gmail.com (Sean DALY) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 09:18:09 +0200 Subject: about interviewing In-Reply-To: <4AC42475.2070706@redhat.com> References: <12d8a2fa0909301747q5fd79627x686fb9a29fcb03a8@mail.gmail.com> <4AC42475.2070706@redhat.com> Message-ID: <378b2b050910010018q4d15568fq1ce3a342458cd333@mail.gmail.com> These are great questions, but if I may offer some advice, as a former journalist and having done the Groklaw interviews for several years (http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=20080706000413933). It could be said that the key info to draw out is: why choose to use and contribute to Fedora, and not something else? There's a choice to use Fedora there, a motivation that it's the right choice. What makes Fedora stand out? (and by choice, I don't just mean other distros or projects, but FOSS projects in general compared to vendors for example) There's an emotional attchment too - the "proud of?" question is right on target. Would you recommend it to friends and family? There's a context as well. While the PC industry is counting on the Windows 7 launch [in three weeks], what makes Fedora a great alternative? Finally, it's a great idea to ask about the future of Fedora, but that's also an opportunity to ask broader questions about how we use our computers. What would you like to do with a computer that no one can do today? The answer to that one could be beyond the bleeding edge of development (touchscreen, tablet, speech recognition, telephony integration) or beyond the industry's current shape (free open document and audio-video formats for a level playing field, a call upon online providers e.g. Google for more open technologies or to OEMs to not exclude GNU/Linux distros, the nascent open hardware movement). Questions like these can generate interest outside Fedora and also showcase how sharp Ambassadors are, building their credibility as advisors. Just suggestions. Sean On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 5:39 AM, Mel Chua wrote: > On 09/30/2009 08:47 PM, Tareq Al Jurf wrote: >> >> Hi Mel i remember last month we discussed interviews with fedora >> users i searched for the messages but couldn't find them :( so can u >> send me the link that has the questions i'm going to interview a >> couple of arabs Fedora users with skype webcam and i need some ideas > > I can't recall a link with questions off the top of my head, but some > questions that usually make for good interviews... > > * Tell me the story of how you started using Fedora. > * Tell me the story of how you started contributing to the Fedora > community. What are you proudest of? > * Show me something you've done in Fedora - what's your favorite program > and how do you use it? Or what's the coolest thing you've done with > Fedora that you think other people may not know about yet? > * What questions do you have about Fedora? > * What could we do better? > * What would you like to see happen in Fedora in the future - both the > distribution and the community? > > Basically, get people to tell you stories about their Fedora experience, > and you should be all set. Copying the Marketing list in case anyone has > more ideas - in general, you might get a faster response from the list than > from my crowded inbox. :) > > Also, I'm not sure if we have a preferred free alternative to Skype - does > anyone have any suggestions? > > --Mel > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From stickster at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 12:54:04 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 08:54:04 -0400 Subject: F12 In-depth features - Print / Podcast interviews In-Reply-To: <20090924122733.GB17173@localhost.localdomain> References: <5d4d90c90909231734j25824ee0u87c4c8f8fd05f310@mail.gmail.com> <20090924122733.GB17173@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20091001125404.GG17320@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 08:27:33AM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 05:34:55PM -0700, Robyn Bergeron wrote: > > As discussed in the marketing meeting yesterday on irc.... > > > > Now that the Fedora 12 talking points have been settled, we need to > > start doing print or podcast interviews around some of those points / > > features. We selected 4 talking points in the marketing meeting > > yesterday that should definitely have interviews to go along with them > > - Next-Gen Ogg, NetworkManager enhancements, Virt improvements, and > > Systemtap improvements - but to do the interviews, we still need > > interviewers. > > > > The tools / information to start doing interviews are available here: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F12_in-depth_features ... and > > please note the table for features and owners. If you are willing to > > take something on, please add your name to the wiki as the owner so we > > know that we (a) have an owner, and (b) don't have 12 owners being > > redundant. Stickster has graciously volunteered to do the SystemTap > > interview. (Thank you, Paul :D ) Mchua - I don't know if you want to > > open marketing tickets for each of these interviews, if so I can do > > that. > > > > Mchua previously issued a call to action on this - > > https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/73 - and so we're still > > looking to synchronize interviewees and interviewers. If you have any > > ideas, please post your suggestions in the wiki and/or on the mailing > > list. > > I created my stub page for the SystemTap interview as I did in F11. > The page is here if anyone wants to copy my work (which is > encouraged!): > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SystemTap_in_Fedora_12 > > I'll write the print interview questions shortly and should have > answers and a podcast within the next week or so. Already have a > developer on the hook! ;-) Status note -- I have the print interview up, and will be editing it (for simple errors) and possibly adding a couple clarification questions in the next couple of days. Podcast interview set for this afternoon, for which I'll be using the instructions posted here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_make_a_podcast -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 1 21:37:55 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 03:07:55 +0530 Subject: Red Hat Files its Bilski Brief: Asks Supreme Ct. to Exclude Software From Patentability Message-ID: <4AC52133.3050005@fedoraproject.org> Hi http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091001154227155 "I love Red Hat. They stand alone alone so far among vendors, willing to stand up and express what the FOSS community would really say if it could speak with one voice to the Supreme Court. This is certainly what *I* would say if I had that chance. And so I am satisfied. I was going down the depressing list of briefs filed for Petitioner on the ABA's list of filed amicus briefs, and it was so frustrating to see no one saying anything like what I believe to be technically true about software patents or addressing the specific needs of Free and Open Source software. At last someone has told them what we wanted to say. I just hope the Supreme Court has some techies in the clerk pool!" Rahul From mel at redhat.com Tue Oct 6 00:00:14 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 17:00:14 -0700 Subject: Fedora Marketing weekly meeting, 20:00UTC #fedora-meeting Message-ID: <6158d1f17b320de4201db8566bef3dfa@localhost.localdomain> Details and agenda at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings. See you folks there! --Mel From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 17:30:07 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 13:30:07 -0400 Subject: In-depth profiles Message-ID: <20091006173007.GN4688@victoria.internal.frields.org> Out of the four in-depth feature profiles listed here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F12_in-depth_features ...The only one feature with page details is this one: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SystemTap_in_Fedora_12 Do we have anybody picking up the interview tasks for any of the other features? This was a tremendously useful effort for Fedora 11 and we got a lot of play out of it with journalists and other media venues. As I mentioned earlier, I can definitely help provide people (developers) to answer interview questions. It would be a shame if we had no feature profiles to show for what has been a very energetic, feature-packed release! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From robyn.bergeron at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 17:33:38 2009 From: robyn.bergeron at gmail.com (Robyn Bergeron) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 10:33:38 -0700 Subject: In-depth profiles In-Reply-To: <20091006173007.GN4688@victoria.internal.frields.org> References: <20091006173007.GN4688@victoria.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <5d4d90c90910061033i53270f87qd053165eecff2ee6@mail.gmail.com> I'm going to pick up one, as discussed in last week's mktg meeting (although, I never got back to mchua to tell her I'd do it) - One question though, we talked about me doing a desktop feature, but nothing listed on this page is desktop-specific. Do we still need to pick up 3 more interviews? -robyn On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Out of the four in-depth feature profiles listed here: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F12_in-depth_features > > ...The only one feature with page details is this one: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SystemTap_in_Fedora_12 > > Do we have anybody picking up the interview tasks for any of the other > features? > > This was a tremendously useful effort for Fedora 11 and we got a lot > of play out of it with journalists and other media venues. ?As I > mentioned earlier, I can definitely help provide people (developers) > to answer interview questions. ?It would be a shame if we had no > feature profiles to show for what has been a very energetic, > feature-packed release! > > -- > Paul W. Frields ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://paul.frields.org/ > ?gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 ?5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > ?http://redhat.com/ ? - ?- ?- ?- ? http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ > ?irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 17:47:45 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 13:47:45 -0400 Subject: In-depth profiles In-Reply-To: <5d4d90c90910061033i53270f87qd053165eecff2ee6@mail.gmail.com> References: <20091006173007.GN4688@victoria.internal.frields.org> <5d4d90c90910061033i53270f87qd053165eecff2ee6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091006174745.GQ4688@victoria.internal.frields.org> On Tue, Oct 06, 2009 at 10:33:38AM -0700, Robyn Bergeron wrote: > I'm going to pick up one, as discussed in last week's mktg meeting > (although, I never got back to mchua to tell her I'd do it) - > > One question though, we talked about me doing a desktop feature, but > nothing listed on this page is desktop-specific. Do we still need to > pick up 3 more interviews? Both the Ogg Theora video and NetworkManager enhancements are desktop-centric features. If you were interested in something more comprehensive, and preferred to roll in some additional desktop level features into a single interview, that would be OK too. I think we're at a point in the release cycle where you need to make that decision quickly and then let us know here on the list. I can help you find someone to be your interviewee; I'm thinking of Dan Williams in the case of NM, or Matthias Clasen in the case of Desktop overall. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From robyn.bergeron at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 18:16:33 2009 From: robyn.bergeron at gmail.com (Robyn Bergeron) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 11:16:33 -0700 Subject: In-depth profiles In-Reply-To: <20091006174745.GQ4688@victoria.internal.frields.org> References: <20091006173007.GN4688@victoria.internal.frields.org> <5d4d90c90910061033i53270f87qd053165eecff2ee6@mail.gmail.com> <20091006174745.GQ4688@victoria.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <5d4d90c90910061116v51352fd0u429bae9359576d9e@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, Oct 06, 2009 at 10:33:38AM -0700, Robyn Bergeron wrote: >> I'm going to pick up one, as discussed in last week's mktg meeting >> (although, I never got back to mchua to tell her I'd do it) - >> >> One question though, we talked about me doing a desktop feature, but >> nothing listed on this page is desktop-specific. ?Do we still need to >> pick up 3 more interviews? > > Both the Ogg Theora video and NetworkManager enhancements are > desktop-centric features. ?If you were interested in something more > comprehensive, and preferred to roll in some additional desktop level > features into a single interview, that would be OK too. ?I think we're > at a point in the release cycle where you need to make that decision > quickly and then let us know here on the list. ?I can help you find > someone to be your interviewee; I'm thinking of Dan Williams in the > case of NM, or Matthias Clasen in the case of Desktop overall. I think it might be easier for me to take on an overall-desktop interview, mostly because I'm not entirely sure I could come up with a reasonable list of questions on Just Ogg or Just NetworkManager to last for more than 5 minutes of interview time, since I'm not extremely in-depth familiar with either of them. I'm more an average user, so I think the questions I could ask on overall-desktop stuff would be (a) easier for me to understand / develop, and (b) probably play out well to other non-technical users. I'll email matthias and see what/when I can set up, and cover the basics for the features listed in the F12 desktop-user talking points listed here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Talking_Points#For_desktop_users_and_everyone Also... it says XZ under consideration. Is there a timeline for deciding a yeah or nay on this as a talking point? Would we still want someone to do something more in-depth on NetworkManager or Ogg? -Robyn > > -- > Paul W. Frields ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://paul.frields.org/ > ?gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 ?5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > ?http://redhat.com/ ? - ?- ?- ?- ? http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ > ?irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 18:56:33 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:56:33 -0400 Subject: In-depth profiles In-Reply-To: <5d4d90c90910061116v51352fd0u429bae9359576d9e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20091006173007.GN4688@victoria.internal.frields.org> <5d4d90c90910061033i53270f87qd053165eecff2ee6@mail.gmail.com> <20091006174745.GQ4688@victoria.internal.frields.org> <5d4d90c90910061116v51352fd0u429bae9359576d9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091006185633.GE15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> On Tue, Oct 06, 2009 at 11:16:33AM -0700, Robyn Bergeron wrote: > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 06, 2009 at 10:33:38AM -0700, Robyn Bergeron wrote: > >> I'm going to pick up one, as discussed in last week's mktg meeting > >> (although, I never got back to mchua to tell her I'd do it) - > >> > >> One question though, we talked about me doing a desktop feature, but > >> nothing listed on this page is desktop-specific. ?Do we still need to > >> pick up 3 more interviews? > > > > Both the Ogg Theora video and NetworkManager enhancements are > > desktop-centric features. ?If you were interested in something more > > comprehensive, and preferred to roll in some additional desktop level > > features into a single interview, that would be OK too. ?I think we're > > at a point in the release cycle where you need to make that decision > > quickly and then let us know here on the list. ?I can help you find > > someone to be your interviewee; I'm thinking of Dan Williams in the > > case of NM, or Matthias Clasen in the case of Desktop overall. > > I think it might be easier for me to take on an overall-desktop > interview, mostly because I'm not entirely sure I could come up with > a reasonable list of questions on Just Ogg or Just NetworkManager to > last for more than 5 minutes of interview time, since I'm not > extremely in-depth familiar with either of them. Don't make the mistake I did and generate a big ol' interview you then have to spend hours and hours editing. Yikes! :-D I'm my own worst enemy. Well OK, actually that supervillain that magnetizes SUVs and throws them around? That's my own worst enemy, and then myself in the #2 slot. > I'm more an average user, so I think the questions I could ask on > overall-desktop stuff would be (a) easier for me to understand / > develop, and (b) probably play out well to other non-technical > users. I'll email matthias and see what/when I can set up, and > cover the basics for the features listed in the F12 desktop-user > talking points listed here: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Talking_Points#For_desktop_users_and_everyone I was in this position in the SystemTap interview and I think that helped get answers that more people can hopefully grasp. (Experts will be bored, but I don't think it's our job to preach to the choir.) > Also... it says XZ under consideration. Is there a timeline for > deciding a yeah or nay on this as a talking point? Fixed this, removing admonition. The feature is on. There's a niggling issue or two with noarch packages but those issues won't be visible to most users, and even where they are, yum gracefully falls back and it won't affect the positive parts of the feature. > Would we still want someone to do something more in-depth on > NetworkManager or Ogg? I think you should absorb the NetworkManager stuff into the overall Desktop feature. As for Ogg, that one is still open for a taker. Someone could add an in-depth feature they feel strongly about -- like ABRT, for instance. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From chitlesh.goorah at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 19:06:52 2009 From: chitlesh.goorah at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:06:52 +0200 Subject: Fedora Electronic Lab Talking Points 12 Message-ID: <50baabb30910061206o36dcb7a7w879acd28ef0fae2f@mail.gmail.com> Hello there, I have added a small paragraph about the main features of Fedora Electronic Lab 12 to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Talking_Points This small paragraph points to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraElectronicLab/TalkingPoints. The latter summarized the most important things people needs to know about Fedora Electronic Lab for the first time. The main idea behind that page is to help fedora ambassadors during their events so that they can explain FEL **in less than 3 minutes** to anyone. I sincerely hope you will use it. Cheers, Chitlesh From chitlesh.goorah at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 19:15:46 2009 From: chitlesh.goorah at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:15:46 +0200 Subject: Fedora Electronic Lab 12 Promotional Materials Message-ID: <50baabb30910061215k4454cdfcn91db182323f09d9c@mail.gmail.com> Hello there, Below are FEL related documents that you can use during your events or pass to your friends, lecturers, to anyone. All the documents are under the same license as the Fedora Documentations. * FEL 12 Release Notes 26 Pages. http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/papers/FEL12ReleaseNotes.pdf Please note that thanks to John McDonough a summary of this document was included into Fedora-12main release notes. * FEL 12 Flyer : http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/papers/fel-flyer-f12.pdf * A PNG for your OOo presentations http://chitlesh.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/fel-flyer-f12-page0011.png The sources of this documents are available on https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-electronic-lab/browser Cheers, Chitlesh Goorah From mel at redhat.com Tue Oct 6 21:05:26 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:05:26 -0400 Subject: In-depth profiles In-Reply-To: <20091006173007.GN4688@victoria.internal.frields.org> References: <20091006173007.GN4688@victoria.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <4ACBB116.8030903@redhat.com> > Do we have anybody picking up the interview tasks for any of the other > features? I'll take virt - it's something I've wanted to learn about for a while and now I finally have an excuse to ask questions about it. Woo! > This was a tremendously useful effort for Fedora 11 and we got a lot > of play out of it with journalists and other media venues. As I > mentioned earlier, I can definitely help provide people (developers) > to answer interview questions. It would be a shame if we had no > feature profiles to show for what has been a very energetic, > feature-packed release! 21:34:35 < mchua> mizmo: hm, think I could leave my sound recorder at Westford and then bribe people with cookies to sit down over lunch and talk about their features? 21:34:45 < mizmo> mchua: absolutely We'll see how that goes. ;) --Mel From kschiltz at redhat.com Tue Oct 6 21:19:16 2009 From: kschiltz at redhat.com (Kara Schiltz) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:19:16 -0400 Subject: New blog post Message-ID: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> Hello all, A new blog + video has posted on Red Hat News that outlines how code makes it from the community into Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Check it out here: http://press.redhat.com/2009/10/06/from-code-to-community-to-enterprise-ready/ Thanks, Kara From mel at redhat.com Tue Oct 6 21:18:40 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:18:40 -0400 Subject: Meeting minutes 2009-10-06 Message-ID: <4ACBB430.4010908@redhat.com> Also at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings#2009. 22:08:04 < zodbot> Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-10-06/fedora-meeting.2009-10-06-20.04.html 22:08:05 < zodbot> Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-10-06/fedora-meeting.2009-10-06-20.04.txt 22:08:08 < zodbot> Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-10-06/fedora-meeting.2009-10-06-20.04.log.html Based on these two lines, expect more traffic on this list as the countdown to release gets shorter. # AGREED: mailing list conversation tranparency SUPER IMPORTANT now (mchua, 21:04:01) # AGREED: Paul and Mel have travel schedules of insanity between now and release day (and probably afterwards) (mchua, 21:04:14) --Mel From giallu at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 22:05:48 2009 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 00:05:48 +0200 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Kara Schiltz wrote: > Hello all, > > A new blog + video has posted on Red Hat News that outlines how code makes > it from the community into Red Hat Enterprise Linux. ?Check it out here: > http://press.redhat.com/2009/10/06/from-code-to-community-to-enterprise-ready/ Nice video Paul :) now, I think it would be nice to extend the reach of that video to those not really comfortable with spoken English. Specifically, I'm thinking about: * subtitles in english * translated subtitles * full translation of the audio track the last one is clearly very hard to do, but the other two could be doable. what's your opinion? -- Gianluca Sforna http://morefedora.blogspot.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/gianlucasforna From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 23:47:32 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 19:47:32 -0400 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> On Wed, Oct 07, 2009 at 12:05:48AM +0200, Gianluca Sforna wrote: > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Kara Schiltz wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > A new blog + video has posted on Red Hat News that outlines how code makes > > it from the community into Red Hat Enterprise Linux. ?Check it out here: > > http://press.redhat.com/2009/10/06/from-code-to-community-to-enterprise-ready/ > > Nice video Paul :) > now, I think it would be nice to extend the reach of that video to > those not really comfortable with spoken English. > > Specifically, I'm thinking about: > * subtitles in english > * translated subtitles > * full translation of the audio track > > the last one is clearly very hard to do, but the other two could be doable. > > what's your opinion? Gianluca, this is an interesting idea. The video is CC BY-ND, so that would mean that any subtitles or translations in the video itself would need to come from Red Hat (i.e. we can't remix it ourselves here in Fedora). I don't think it would be a problem if you or another volunteer wanted to transcribe the audio and put a translation somewhere, with or without an unchanged copy of the video. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From giallu at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 07:03:15 2009 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 09:03:15 +0200 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:47 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Gianluca, this is an interesting idea. ?The video is CC BY-ND, so that > would mean that any subtitles or translations in the video itself > would need to come from Red Hat (i.e. we can't remix it ourselves here > in Fedora). Yeah, I noticed the license issue after I hit "send" :( > I don't think it would be a problem if you or another volunteer wanted > to transcribe the audio and put a translation somewhere, with or > without an unchanged copy of the video. Ok, I'll give this a shot and see what happens... -- Gianluca Sforna http://morefedora.blogspot.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/gianlucasforna From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 7 07:02:40 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:32:40 +0530 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> On 10/07/2009 05:17 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Gianluca, this is an interesting idea. The video is CC BY-ND, so that > would mean that any subtitles or translations in the video itself > would need to come from Red Hat (i.e. we can't remix it ourselves here > in Fedora). Would it be impossible for Red Hat to drop the "ND" clause atleast for Fedora videos? It doesn't match the spirit of Fedora to have such restrictions. Rahul From giallu at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 12:30:14 2009 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 14:30:14 +0200 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:47 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I don't think it would be a problem if you or another volunteer wanted > to transcribe the audio and put a translation somewhere, with or > without an unchanged copy of the video. Something like this could do? http://morefedora.blogspot.com/2009/10/how-code-makes-from-upstream-to-fedora.html -- Gianluca Sforna http://morefedora.blogspot.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/gianlucasforna From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 13:01:20 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 09:01:20 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: didn't see "md5 mismatch" error on today's Rawhide noarch packages] Message-ID: <20091007130120.GG28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> FYI, Marketing team, re: the XZ (smaller packages) feature. One of the big lingering issues was that the XZ libraries used by the yum-presto/deltaRPM feature would fail to rebuild .noarch (architecture-independent) RPM packages that were identical to the original when checksummed. Therefore, any .noarch package would fail the rebuild test and the original, full package would be downloaded anyway. (Binary architecture-dependent packages, like *.i686.rpm and *.x86_64.rpm, worked fine -- the majority of packages.) That's been fixed, meaning this feature works even better now for F12 than a month ago. Paul ----- Forwarded message from Rahul Sundaram ----- Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:05:02 +0530 From: Rahul Sundaram To: Development discussions related to Fedora Subject: Re: didn't see "md5 mismatch" error on today's Rawhide noarch packages Organization: Red Hat X-BeenThere: fedora-devel-list at redhat.com On 10/07/2009 07:25 AM, Andre Robatino wrote: > There was at least one noarch package in today's Rawhide updates, and I > didn't see the usual "md5 mismatch" error when rebuilding the RPMs. > Does this mean that they are now being built on a little endian arch > (probably Intel), and if so, will this be done consistently from now on? > (At least until xz is changed to generate the same compressed output on > big endian.) XZ upstream was informed of this problem and we have now inherited the fix. --- Wed Oct 07 2009 Jindrich Novy 4.999.9-0.1.20091007.beta - update to 4.999.9beta - sync with upstream to generate the same archives on machines with different endianess --- Rahul -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 13:11:26 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 09:11:26 -0400 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> On Wed, Oct 07, 2009 at 12:32:40PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 10/07/2009 05:17 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > Gianluca, this is an interesting idea. The video is CC BY-ND, so that > > would mean that any subtitles or translations in the video itself > > would need to come from Red Hat (i.e. we can't remix it ourselves here > > in Fedora). > > Would it be impossible for Red Hat to drop the "ND" clause atleast for > Fedora videos? It doesn't match the spirit of Fedora to have such > restrictions. This is not a Fedora video -- it's a video for Red Hat customers in particular. The fact that I happen to be in it, explaining the pipeline, should not obscure that. Also, I think you should keep in mind that Red Hat's Creative team produces these videos. If we were to make videos as part of the Fedora Marketing team or some other Fedora entity, I would absolutely want those videos to reflect the licensing we use elsewhere. NoDerivatives (ND) is a fundamentally sensible license for videos produced *by a commercial entity*, where there's an interest in preserving the original intent, message, and brand value of the content. In Fedora, on the other hand, we provide resources that anyone can remix for any purpose, trademarks aside. What Gianluca was asking for, the ability to spread this video to other locales, we could provide through translations as I suggested. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 7 13:21:07 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 18:51:07 +0530 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> On 10/07/2009 06:41 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > This is not a Fedora video -- it's a video for Red Hat customers in > particular. The fact that I happen to be in it, explaining the > pipeline, should not obscure that. I assume you were in it because Fedora is a key part of that message and I assume that is the reason it was highlighted to this list specifically leaving aside many of the other videos that Red Hat has produced recently. Either way, I would prefer us to enable the community to enable translations for the videos without asking permission to do so. That applies to all the Red Hat short videos like these ones but especially ones that involve Fedora because the community certainly would be interested in that. Rahul From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Oct 7 13:36:43 2009 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 16:36:43 +0300 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <4ACC996B.1040109@nicubunu.ro> On 10/07/2009 04:11 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Also, I think you should keep in mind that Red Hat's Creative team > produces these videos. If we were to make videos as part of the > Fedora Marketing team or some other Fedora entity, I would absolutely > want those videos to reflect the licensing we use elsewhere. > > NoDerivatives (ND) is a fundamentally sensible license for videos > produced *by a commercial entity*, where there's an interest in > preserving the original intent, message, and brand value of the > content. In Fedora, on the other hand, we provide resources that > anyone can remix for any purpose, trademarks aside. What Gianluca was > asking for, the ability to spread this video to other locales, we > could provide through translations as I suggested. While I agree about this particular video, which is primarily about branding and directed at Red Hat customers, it seems the Red Hat Creative team defaults to CC-BY-NC-ND for everything, even in cases when such a restrictions does not bring any additional benefit, like in http://www.redhat.com/videos/fudcon11.html Also, I hope at some point they will start delivering the content in Free formats by default, with a nice and easy fallback option for the customers with inadequate browsers (it's so easy that I can't see a reason for not doing it): http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2009/02/fallback-options-for-html5-video.html -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/ From choke at redhat.com Wed Oct 7 16:22:50 2009 From: choke at redhat.com (Colby Hoke) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:22:50 -0400 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 10/07/2009 06:41 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > >> This is not a Fedora video -- it's a video for Red Hat customers in >> particular. The fact that I happen to be in it, explaining the >> pipeline, should not obscure that. >> > > I assume you were in it because Fedora is a key part of that message and > I assume that is the reason it was highlighted to this list specifically > leaving aside many of the other videos that Red Hat has produced > recently. Either way, I would prefer us to enable the community to > enable translations for the videos without asking permission to do so. > That applies to all the Red Hat short videos like these ones but > especially ones that involve Fedora because the community certainly > would be interested in that. > > Rahul > > So, from the video team here, we pretty much have our hands tied to the ND clause. We have a video here, with Paul talking about how this and that happens, including how our products and services work. Put yourself in the shoes of legal - someone takes this video, cuts it up to make us look bad or misrepresent us in some way- let your imagination run free... That video gets uploaded, blogged about, people assume it's from us and someone takes exception. The one hard part about Creative Commons is the Attribution. On one hand, we want people to know who originally made the video, on the other hand we don't want our name associated with a derivative that is malicious. It's tough to do, but we're getting closer. We don't default to CC-BY-NC-ND anymore- the default drops the NC from that. It's a step in the right direction and we have it as a goal to do more SA videos. Yes, we've only done one, to date, but I want our team to do it whenever possible. It's a very good idea for the future Fedora videos to be CC-BY-SA. I'll see what I can do as far as that goes, but we have to follow the advice of legal counsel. As Paul said, this isn't a "Fedora video," so we can't drop the ND. Feel free, if you want to do translations, to email me directly and I'll put in in the creative queue here and get it done for you. (That said, if I get dozens of them, it may be near impossible, but I'll do everything I can to help.) Thanks for understanding and thanks even more for being so passionate about this issue- I'm in total agreement on being as open as possible, but there are certain situations where that can't happen due to the risks involved... for now. -- Colby A. Hoke [ Producer ] Brand Communications + Design Raleigh, NC ----------------------------- choke at redhat.com P: 919.621.8802 From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 7 16:36:44 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 22:06:44 +0530 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4ACCC39C.30708@fedoraproject.org> On 10/07/2009 09:52 PM, Colby Hoke wrote: > > Put yourself in the shoes of legal - someone takes this video, cuts it > up to make us look bad or misrepresent us in some way- let your > imagination run free... That video gets uploaded, blogged about, people > assume it's from us and someone takes exception. The one hard part about > Creative Commons is the Attribution. On one hand, we want people to know > who originally made the video, on the other hand we don't want our name > associated with a derivative that is malicious. I always as a rule put myself in the shoes of a community member rather than Legal because I understand the community requirements better than the legal requirements. My interest in the legal details are only because they help the community. I can't pretend to be a lawyer but I would have thought a deliberately malicious alteration would have other legal resources compared to simply denying the freedom to remix the video. It is not just translations. What If I want to take a few minutes of the clip and weave it into a different story? What about a different local language voice over? I am sure you can understand why allowing this creative freedom to flourish by providing the source material under a liberal license is useful. > It's tough to do, but we're getting closer. We don't default to > CC-BY-NC-ND anymore- the default drops the NC from that. It's a step in > the right direction and we have it as a goal to do more SA videos. Yes, > we've only done one, to date, but I want our team to do it whenever > possible. Yes, I have been pushing for the NC clause to be dropped for a long time, too. Happy to see progress on that front. > It's a very good idea for the future Fedora videos to be CC-BY-SA. I'll > see what I can do as far as that goes, but we have to follow the advice > of legal counsel. Sure. Copying fedora-legal list. One more thing to consider: We have been doing Flash streaming and using for downloads. Now that Firefox (Epiphany, Opera, Chrome as well) has built-in Ogg support, I think we can stream Ogg Theora videos directly using simple flash fallbacks for browsers that don't support it. In case, you haven't seen Nicu's mail, refer to http://camendesign.com/code/video_for_everybody Rahul From choke at redhat.com Wed Oct 7 19:10:32 2009 From: choke at redhat.com (Colby Hoke) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:10:32 -0400 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4ACCC39C.30708@fedoraproject.org> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> <4ACCC39C.30708@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4ACCE7A8.7060104@redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 10/07/2009 09:52 PM, Colby Hoke wrote: > > >> Put yourself in the shoes of legal - someone takes this video, cuts it >> up to make us look bad or misrepresent us in some way- let your >> imagination run free... That video gets uploaded, blogged about, people >> assume it's from us and someone takes exception. The one hard part about >> Creative Commons is the Attribution. On one hand, we want people to know >> who originally made the video, on the other hand we don't want our name >> associated with a derivative that is malicious. >> > > I always as a rule put myself in the shoes of a community member rather > than Legal because I understand the community requirements better than > the legal requirements. My interest in the legal details are only > because they help the community. > > Reasonably so! > I can't pretend to be a lawyer but I would have thought a deliberately > malicious alteration would have other legal resources compared to simply > denying the freedom to remix the video. AFAIK, not really. > It is not just translations. > What If I want to take a few minutes of the clip and weave it into a > different story? I understand all of that. I'm saying what if someone else cuts it up and each time he mentions developers, he suddenly says Nazis. (Yeah I went there, I'm just saying...) > What about a different local language voice over? I am > sure you can understand why allowing this creative freedom to flourish > by providing the source material under a liberal license is useful. > > As I said, I absolutely agree. But, IANAL and, as such, I'm certainly not one for Red Hat, so I can't make videos that go against what I'm told to do. It's unfortunate, but from conversations with legal, this seems to be the only way to protect us as it is. For example, there was a remix of the Truth Happens video that was put in with some very questionable material. It was offensive. Due to the copyright (back then we used copyright), we were able to go after that video and, I assume, have it taken it down. By having a license on certain things that we do, we give ourselves legal maneuverability in case some situation does arise. Now, I would love to have all videos out there for anyone to do anything with and the people that saw them would be smart enough to know what's legit and what's not. I would love to trust all people to act civil and respectful of my work and out work as a video team. Wouldn't that be nice? I would love to see everything we did spread all over and be remixed, translated, and shown in a different light. That's progress. But, I can't. >> It's tough to do, but we're getting closer. We don't default to >> CC-BY-NC-ND anymore- the default drops the NC from that. It's a step in >> the right direction and we have it as a goal to do more SA videos. Yes, >> we've only done one, to date, but I want our team to do it whenever >> possible. >> > > Yes, I have been pushing for the NC clause to be dropped for a long > time, too. Happy to see progress on that front. > > Meeeee too. >> It's a very good idea for the future Fedora videos to be CC-BY-SA. I'll >> see what I can do as far as that goes, but we have to follow the advice >> of legal counsel. >> > > Sure. Copying fedora-legal list. One more thing to consider: We have > been doing Flash streaming and using for downloads. Now that Firefox > (Epiphany, Opera, Chrome as well) has built-in Ogg support, I think we > can stream Ogg Theora videos directly using simple flash fallbacks for > browsers that don't support it. In case, you haven't seen Nicu's mail, > refer to > > http://camendesign.com/code/video_for_everybody > > Rahul > I wish I was on the web team at Red Hat and could do this stuff. I wish we had more people on the web team that had time to work on all of this. It's very exciting and I'm glad it's coming to fruition now. That said, they're swamped and I know there's some redesign work happening on the site. Stuff I don't even know all of the details about. I'm happy to ping them and see about the HTML5 stuff and having flash as a fallback. That would be tremendous. I just have no concept of whether it's doable for them right now. I'll see what I can find out. -- Colby A. Hoke [ Producer ] Brand Communications + Design Raleigh, NC ----------------------------- choke at redhat.com P: 919.621.8802 From tcallawa at redhat.com Wed Oct 7 19:28:51 2009 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:28:51 -0400 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4ACCE7A8.7060104@redhat.com> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> <4ACCC39C.30708@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCE7A8.7060104@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4ACCEBF3.7000005@redhat.com> On 10/07/2009 03:10 PM, Colby Hoke wrote: > I understand all of that. I'm saying what if someone else cuts it up and > each time he mentions developers, he suddenly says Nazis. (Yeah I went > there, I'm just saying...) I tend to believe that the people who want to make disgusting and hateful remixes of our content will do so irregardless of our licensing model. By restricting derivative works, we merely prevent those with good and positive intentions from doing so. Or, to frame it another way, should we prevent people from making code changes to our software because they could turn the software into dangerous viruses or Nazi themed window managers? (Hey, you went there first.) ~spot From mairin at linuxgrrl.com Wed Oct 7 19:29:53 2009 From: mairin at linuxgrrl.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:29:53 -0400 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4ACCEC31.7020606@linuxgrrl.com> On 10/07/2009 12:22 PM, Colby Hoke wrote: > As Paul said, this isn't a "Fedora video," so we can't drop the ND. Feel > free, if you want to do translations, to email me directly and I'll put > in in the creative queue here and get it done for you. (That said, if I > get dozens of them, it may be near impossible, but I'll do everything I > can to help.) If the translators could provide the translations in *.srt or *.sub format, would that make this easier? Then you don't need to manipulate the original video file at all... ~m From choke at redhat.com Wed Oct 7 19:48:55 2009 From: choke at redhat.com (Colby Hoke) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:48:55 -0400 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4ACCEBF3.7000005@redhat.com> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> <4ACCC39C.30708@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCE7A8.7060104@redhat.com> <4ACCEBF3.7000005@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4ACCF0A7.9040803@redhat.com> Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > On 10/07/2009 03:10 PM, Colby Hoke wrote: > >> I understand all of that. I'm saying what if someone else cuts it up and >> each time he mentions developers, he suddenly says Nazis. (Yeah I went >> there, I'm just saying...) >> > > I tend to believe that the people who want to make disgusting and > hateful remixes of our content will do so irregardless of our licensing > model. Absolutely. > By restricting derivative works, we merely prevent those with > good and positive intentions from doing so. > > Yep! > Or, to frame it another way, should we prevent people from making code > changes to our software because they could turn the software into > dangerous viruses or Nazi themed window managers? (Hey, you went there > first.) > > ~spot > > I absolutely agree. I'm not in control, just explaining why it is the way it is. This is an argument I've been having for, oh, 2 1/2 years. -- Colby A. Hoke [ Producer ] Brand Communications + Design Raleigh, NC ----------------------------- choke at redhat.com P: 919.621.8802 From choke at redhat.com Wed Oct 7 19:56:48 2009 From: choke at redhat.com (Colby Hoke) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:56:48 -0400 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4ACCEC31.7020606@linuxgrrl.com> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> <4ACCEC31.7020606@linuxgrrl.com> Message-ID: <4ACCF280.40009@redhat.com> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > On 10/07/2009 12:22 PM, Colby Hoke wrote: >> As Paul said, this isn't a "Fedora video," so we can't drop the ND. Feel >> free, if you want to do translations, to email me directly and I'll put >> in in the creative queue here and get it done for you. (That said, if I >> get dozens of them, it may be near impossible, but I'll do everything I >> can to help.) > > If the translators could provide the translations in *.srt or *.sub > format, would that make this easier? Then you don't need to manipulate > the original video file at all... > > ~m > I've never used these formats. I don't know know how it works and I'm not sure about the legal implications of using that as an overlay to the video. I kinda look at it like this: we have patents at Red Hat, right? Oooooh everyone gets scared! But, we have them not because we might exercise them for our gain, we have them so others don't have them. So that others can't use them for their gain. We have them for peace of mind. I kinda feel like, if you wanna remix a video, you're going to do it anyway. If you want to subtitle it, do it. If it is malicious and we take exception, we have a leg to stand on with the ND. I'm not advocating violating the license, just saying... I feel like licenses are there to protect you, not from the good guys (and gals), but from the bad ones. This is probably most why IANAL. -- Colby A. Hoke [ Producer ] Brand Communications + Design Raleigh, NC ----------------------------- choke at redhat.com P: 919.621.8802 From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 8 01:21:25 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 06:51:25 +0530 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4ACCE7A8.7060104@redhat.com> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> <4ACCC39C.30708@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCE7A8.7060104@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4ACD3E95.7070706@fedoraproject.org> On 10/08/2009 12:40 AM, Colby Hoke wrote:. > > For example, there was a remix of the Truth Happens video that was put > in with some very questionable material. It was offensive. Due to the > copyright (back then we used copyright), we were able to go after that > video and, I assume, have it taken it down. If you allow people to create remixes, they will create some bad remixes but so what? I know of exactly one example of such a thing tnat that is one you are citing here, in how many years of Red Hat putting out videos like this? The example also shows that people who actually go about creating such bad remixes don't have a damn about copyright or licensing. They just will do it and I am pretty sure I can find a copy of that video regardless of what Red Hat does at this point. Look at this this way: Red Hat releases tens of thousands of lines of code and content (such as documentation or even fonts) under various free and open source licenses. It is possible and even likely that someone will add a bad patch to what Red Hat has released or even fork it on occasions. It doesn't negate the benefits at all. Rahul From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Oct 8 07:53:45 2009 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 10:53:45 +0300 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4ACCE7A8.7060104@redhat.com> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> <4ACCC39C.30708@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCE7A8.7060104@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4ACD9A89.9060405@nicubunu.ro> On 10/07/2009 10:10 PM, Colby Hoke wrote: > I wish I was on the web team at Red Hat and could do this stuff. I wish > we had more people on the web team that had time to work on all of this. > It's very exciting and I'm glad it's coming to fruition now. That said, > they're swamped and I know there's some redesign work happening on the > site. Stuff I don't even know all of the details about. I'm happy to > ping them and see about the HTML5 stuff and having flash as a fallback. > > That would be tremendous. I just have no concept of whether it's doable > for them right now. I'll see what I can find out. Let me chime in,, right now the code for embedding the video in the web page is: To make it work with the VIDEO tag, it shoud just be encompassed with So the result will be: -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/ From choke at redhat.com Thu Oct 8 14:28:38 2009 From: choke at redhat.com (Colby Hoke) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 10:28:38 -0400 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4ACD3E95.7070706@fedoraproject.org> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> <4ACCC39C.30708@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCE7A8.7060104@redhat.com> <4ACD3E95.7070706@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4ACDF716.9040802@redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 10/08/2009 12:40 AM, Colby Hoke wrote:. > >> For example, there was a remix of the Truth Happens video that was put >> in with some very questionable material. It was offensive. Due to the >> copyright (back then we used copyright), we were able to go after that >> video and, I assume, have it taken it down. >> > > If you allow people to create remixes, they will create some bad remixes > but so what? I agree. > I know of exactly one example of such a thing tnat that is > one you are citing here, in how many years of Red Hat putting out videos > like this? Absolutely. > The example also shows that people who actually go about > creating such bad remixes don't have a damn about copyright or > licensing. Yep. > They just will do it and I am pretty sure I can find a copy > of that video regardless of what Red Hat does at this point. > > I've no doubt you can. > Look at this this way: Red Hat releases tens of thousands of lines of > code and content (such as documentation or even fonts) under various > free and open source licenses. It is possible and even likely that > someone will add a bad patch to what Red Hat has released or even fork > it on occasions. It doesn't negate the benefits at all. > > Rahul > Well this can go on all day long. You're preaching to the choir. As I've said, time and time again, I agree. I absolutely agree. I've been talking to our legal department and we'll have something figured out very soon regarding this. All I'm trying to say is: this is how it is right now. We've made good progress and I'm just trying to explain why it's this way. I'm not trying to defend it or attack it. That said, I hope we can figure out a way to do this! -- Colby A. Hoke [ Producer ] Brand Communications + Design Raleigh, NC ----------------------------- choke at redhat.com P: 919.621.8802 From mel at redhat.com Fri Oct 9 20:46:38 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:46:38 -0400 Subject: An advisory board conversation that might be of interest Message-ID: <4ACFA12E.50300@redhat.com> Marketing folks - if you want a meditative breather from working on release deliverables, there is a conversation on the f-a-b list that might be of interest, in terms of thinking about the context of the big picture that we work within. The subject line is "What is the Fedora Project?" and it starts at https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2009-October/msg00002.html. It's quite long (109 messages as of this writing), so wrap up whatever deliverables you're working on first (for me, it was a couple FUDCon tickets) and then settle back with a cup of tea to read and have a good think. After reading, if there are any insights that you'd like to share, please share them on f-a-b so they become part of the main conversation - I'm looking forward to hearing what people have to say. If you want to stay quiet and watch, listen, and learn, that's totally fine as well (that's what I'm doing now). It's an amazing conversation, and an ongoing, very-long-term thing, and there's much to think about in terms of how we want to lead and shape our own work in the here and now. I also wanted to call out a specific question from John that seemed relevant to the discussions we've been having on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_research lately: "CALLING ANY EXPERTS OR INDUSTRY FOLKS: Are there any product marketing or brand people out there that can suggest some good methodology or an approach to defining a target audience that is more efficient than our approach thus far? IOW, what is the simplest way to define and explain our "target audience" without creating a wiki page that is 15 paragraphs long and 25 questions to answer?" (from https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2009-October/msg00148.html) So if folks here have some thoughts on that, that may be a particularly useful thing to chime into the f-a-b discussion with. Cheers, --Mel From mel at redhat.com Fri Oct 9 22:15:48 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:15:48 -0400 Subject: Fwd: FI module update: zikula WYSIWYG packaged, needs reviewer Message-ID: <4ACFB614.1070304@redhat.com> This is really more of a logistics thing since it deals with infrastructure for marketing rather than marketing, but for tranparency since we're moving very, /very/ fast right now, a forward. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: FI module update: zikula WYSIWYG packaged, needs reviewer Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:14:36 -0400 From: Mel Chua To: fedora-news-list at redhat.com , Fedora Logistics We are *almost* ready to deploy FI to staging. Everything's set packagewise (just got the javascript relicensing ok for ezcomments, need to put that in the code) - AND as a wonderful last-minute bonus, Matthew Daniels has packaged xinha for zikula, giving us WYSIWYG-fu from the beginning. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=528003 ...if we can get the package reviewed posthaste. I can't review packages, but will be working on FI after dinner tonight, primarily in #fedora-websites, if anyone would like to join the party in a few hours. Remaining blockers are at https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&component=Fedora+Insight&order=priority, so it looks like I will be excavating my extremely rusty CSS skills and attempting to learn javascript... We're almost there! --Mel PS: Ccing the FWN folks who've been the driving use-case force behind this module. From poelstra at redhat.com Mon Oct 12 18:12:37 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:12:37 -0700 Subject: Schedule reminder for 2009-10-12 Message-ID: <4AD37195.5060708@redhat.com> Start End Name Tue 22-Sep Tue 13-Oct Finish in-depth feature profiles Tue 29-Sep Tue 13-Oct Update press kits Wed 14-Oct Wed 14-Oct Beta Project Wide Release Readiness Meeting Tue 20-Oct Tue 20-Oct Start One-page Release Notes: Docs & Marketing Tue 20-Oct Tue 20-Oct Beta Release Public Availability Tue 20-Oct Tue 27-Oct Create one page Release Notes with Marketing p.s. Thank you to the people who emailed me ideas on how to format these messages better. I'm still working on it. From mel at redhat.com Tue Oct 13 00:00:12 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:00:12 -0700 Subject: Fedora Marketing weekly meeting, 20:00UTC #fedora-meeting Message-ID: Details and agenda at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings. See you folks there! --Mel From mel at redhat.com Tue Oct 13 21:40:48 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:40:48 -0400 Subject: 2009-10-13 meeting logs... sort of. Message-ID: <4AD4F3E0.4090208@redhat.com> This week's meeting was a bit odd. I updated https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings#Agenda with the short version of what I would have said in the meeting. I'll elaborate on this later tonight. The actual meeting time (since most of our usual attendees were absent and it wasn't much use to spend time talking about the things on the agenda without them) was spent welcoming new contributor Gregory Zysk to Fedora and explaining some of Fedora's culture - so for a fascinating discussion, take a look at this week's logs. 22:36:24 < zodbot> Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-10-13/fedora-meeting.2009-10-13-20.02.html 22:36:25 < zodbot> Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-10-13/fedora-meeting.2009-10-13-20.02.txt 22:36:28 < zodbot> Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-10-13/fedora-meeting.2009-10-13-20.02.log.html --Mel From nb at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 14 03:09:51 2009 From: nb at fedoraproject.org (Nick Bebout) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:09:51 -0500 Subject: Self-introduction: Nick Bebout Message-ID: <4AD540FF.20702@fedoraproject.org> I'm Nick Bebout, from the Evansville, Indiana area. I have been involved with Fedora for about a year, although more active in the past 6 months, as a member of the websites, infrastructure, and ambassador projects. I've not had much practical experience in marketing, but have taken a few college classes as a part of my Associates degree in Business Administration. -- Nick Bebout nb at fedoraproject.org From mel at redhat.com Wed Oct 14 03:49:05 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:49:05 -0400 Subject: Self-introduction: Nick Bebout In-Reply-To: <4AD540FF.20702@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AD540FF.20702@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4AD54A31.4030406@redhat.com> On 10/13/2009 11:09 PM, Nick Bebout wrote: > I'm Nick Bebout, from the Evansville, Indiana area. I have been > involved with Fedora for about a year, although more active in the past > 6 months, as a member of the websites, infrastructure, and ambassador > projects. I've not had much practical experience in marketing, but have > taken a few college classes as a part of my Associates degree in > Business Administration. Welcome, Nick! It'll be good to see you around Marketing as well - folks, Nick is an Ambassador and will be helping us with syncing up the two groups and making sure Marketing's aware of (and fulfilling!) the needs of Ambassadors. --Mel From hiemanshu at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 03:57:53 2009 From: hiemanshu at gmail.com (Hiemanshu Sharma) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:27:53 +0530 Subject: Self-Introduction : Hiemanshu Sharma Message-ID: <4AD54C41.4090408@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hey, I am Hiemanshu Sharma based in Bangalore, India. I have been working on the -websites team and would really love to help with -marketing as well. I am a Student right now, doing My Engineering. I have had some marketing experience from working in my Dads company during the summer. Have been a part of most Marketing projects my dad takes up. But well the question arises what would i do with Fedora. My answer is very straight and simple, To see Fedora climb and grow way faster than it can or should. Not everything can be done in a day. But if you have everything setup the right way we can surely make it. And having spoken to Mel about joining the marketing she seemed excited to have me join in. Hoping to gel with all the other marketing members and reach the dreams all of us have. Regards, Hiemanshu Sharma. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJK1UxBAAoJEKBj4Ip6dyRNr1UQANeGUlk3IrlXlHl0VIzaBP4p K7LaUS6Dji6t4tmOh9aeVfW+Fuqew9eJSAKl0Djn6ZYFD9EMSvtneG2O54PKUZ/s jPfM50A1vP1pwTaOJP5lP6EnU35B2w1nhx6bM9ZM+wW/0xBpRAY8gYPWYDowxZa4 P/DrM+lUYyl5u7OUQNrPVSFhe3gEvg0nhgMhS7ugsEfeEHxjwAv/maqfZopVu54J x3dpjgKWgJDQKrTJGB8f5HDuB20fBs6GYaxhSZM4d9mdryIZOnxedgPSbZ3M0N10 ycJWy5AImoj5jQTD6Fuzp0lFjUtkRTLTxuJ87cXlr8TzVRkFilVgIGNx3bEI6Inq /r17ljGIsz2V3kwyBO2Pa8MlKsemfWYYloC1bm6GFmkorGZivF8fo0t8KaZjJd9z Mj4LdF9TUQb/TVJUjoWTvf9m5xi06SAVmgmx04eyDZ6Dnw52bcVSOImNJBC2usNk B+tOSja2add1AYUvs0kP1+ny8v54fnsp1suu23hG2MMrILffprZr1bCfjbGW54Pk Ti1ZB0ppsC4ACiTD56+VrldSUyBUwnIjK7dKr8FMrlUt2IJ2yf3jMZEwxz8iXr0u asKqxte8TiJ1jVZBGNNAr5+yr0XTAa9SpNyT00ksQ1/PdH9T8YCetYWiITNyeAlR rEfvOfzY9KT4dPg/bHEf =YU45 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 14 04:08:54 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:38:54 +0530 Subject: Fedora 12 Talking Points Message-ID: <4AD54ED6.7020206@fedoraproject.org> Hi, Is Moblin worth adding to it? Rahul From mel at redhat.com Wed Oct 14 04:15:45 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:15:45 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction : Hiemanshu Sharma In-Reply-To: <4AD54C41.4090408@gmail.com> References: <4AD54C41.4090408@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AD55071.1010206@redhat.com> > I am Hiemanshu Sharma based in Bangalore, India. I have been working on > the -websites team and would really love to help with -marketing as > well. I am a Student right now, doing My Engineering. Welcome, Hiemanshu! > I have had some marketing experience from working in my Dads company > during the summer. Have been a part of most Marketing projects my dad > takes up. Hiemanshu has been instrumental in the Websites group here in Fedora, and will be helping with "consulting gigs" in Marketing - projects like FEL and the Education SIG who've come in for help but which we haven't had the time to work with due to the press of release deliverables. We'll be finding out what kind of marketing consulting model works and scales for us - which is something we've needed done for a long while. Thanks for hopping on board! --Mel From mel at redhat.com Wed Oct 14 04:17:08 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:17:08 -0400 Subject: Fedora 12 Talking Points In-Reply-To: <4AD54ED6.7020206@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AD54ED6.7020206@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4AD550C4.9070901@redhat.com> On 10/14/2009 12:08 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi, > > Is Moblin worth adding to it? It's not something that will be usable by most people in this release - not many applications on it yet. Perhaps something for F13, though, if it grows momentum and we have some cool usage stories around Moblin (this may be something for the Mini SIG to explore at FUDCon; I know there are a few conversations planned around that sort of thing). My $0.02, anyhow. --Mel From jsimon at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 14 04:41:55 2009 From: jsimon at fedoraproject.org (Joerg Simon) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 06:41:55 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction : Hiemanshu Sharma In-Reply-To: <4AD55071.1010206@redhat.com> References: <4AD54C41.4090408@gmail.com> <4AD55071.1010206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200910140642.04141.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> On Wednesday 14 October 2009 06:15:45 Mel Chua wrote: > Hiemanshu has been instrumental in the Websites group here in Fedora, > and will be helping with "consulting gigs" in Marketing - projects like > FEL Chitlesh is not around because of his wedding next week - till now some information that can be useful concerning FEL-12: * Spin Website: http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/FEL/ * Spin Profile Website: (in development) * FEL-12 Release notes : http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/papers/FEL12ReleaseNotes.pdf * FEL-12 Flyer : http://chitlesh.wordpress.com/2009/10/03/draft-fedora-electronic-lab-12s-flyer/ * Mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-electronic-lab-list * Tickets : https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-electronic-lab/report/3 cu -- Joerg (kital) Simon jsimon at fedoraproject.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon http://kitall.blogspot.com Key Fingerprint: 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 14 04:43:37 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 10:13:37 +0530 Subject: Fedora 12 Talking Points In-Reply-To: <4AD550C4.9070901@redhat.com> References: <4AD54ED6.7020206@fedoraproject.org> <4AD550C4.9070901@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AD556F9.2060205@fedoraproject.org> On 10/14/2009 09:47 AM, Mel Chua wrote: > On 10/14/2009 12:08 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Is Moblin worth adding to it? > > It's not something that will be usable by most people in this release - > not many applications on it yet. # yum install @moblin-desktop gives you a fairly complete desktop. I did a quick comparison with what is available in moblin.org and didn't find noticeable gaps. Rahul From thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 05:31:23 2009 From: thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com (susmit shannigrahi) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 11:01:23 +0530 Subject: [OT][Crosspost] Thinking of a shopping-cart solution for Fedora Online Vendors and Local Vendors. Message-ID: Hi, Though this is kind of off topic for ambassadors, this may find more feedbacks. Till now, we have done almost nothing to redirect our DVD/CD hungry consumers to online shops/Local shops without simply listing them[1][2]. Neither we have done much to get more shops on-board. If we can have a solution which will list the vendors by country and price, we may redirect a reasonable portion of our freemedia and offlist media requests to them thereby reducing our load. I was thinking of an solution like this[3]. What do you say? PS: I shall not be able to work on it till Nov/Dec, but I wrote this lest I forget it. :) [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/OnlineVendors [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/LocalVendors [3]http://shops.oscommerce.com/directory/Telecommunications -- Regards, Susmit. ============================================= ssh 0x86DD170A http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit ============================================= From crossbytes at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 14 05:36:29 2009 From: crossbytes at fedoraproject.org (Kevin Higgins) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:36:29 -0700 Subject: Fedora 12 Talking Points In-Reply-To: <4AD54ED6.7020206@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AD54ED6.7020206@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: > Hi, > > Is Moblin worth adding to it? I would say yes I did a 'spin' and installed it on my ASUS EEE it run great still has some needed things but runs great and have had 2 other people intrested enough in wanting to know how to try it on there laptops.. might want it to be a anounce for in f12 for testing out the desktop; and comments wish list etc.. but a 'spin' for f13 .. ps this is from the current rawhide... From gz.int.project at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 11:53:02 2009 From: gz.int.project at gmail.com (Gregory Zysk) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:53:02 +0200 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <9f7776d00910140453ucfcef4bp2d18dd02a68ff621@mail.gmail.com> Hello Everyone, Allow me to introduce myself, my name is gmzysk and I have just joined the marketing team and ambassador team in the NL/EMEA. You can view more on my experience and my info here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gmzysk I do have quite a bit of experience with marketing and branding and most aspects of management and business admin. In the next few days, I will post some proposals/propositions for projects within the community, so please feel free to come with your comments and suggestions. All the best, Gregory -- Gregory Zysk https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gmzysk Fingerprint: 4643 E1AE 1AAD 85D4 6276 7C42 3591 A189 B8BF 04D6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gz.int.project at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 12:22:11 2009 From: gz.int.project at gmail.com (Gregory Zysk) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:22:11 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? Message-ID: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> Dear Marketing, One of the first things I see in order to help in marketing is the establishment of measurement systems. Measurement systems allow us internally to gauge how we are doing, and what needs to be improved. This is true also for the those viewing the community from an external standpoint. These measurements will provide us with more legitimacy and provide a platform where we are transparent about our results and that our results are measurable (and not some abstract way that no one can understand). I can see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_research that we have begun to start an formulate research that will be used to produce these statistics, but fail to see any methodologies that are used to base these questionnaires off of. One thing I would like to start with to help all of you form a marketing mindset is to ask the question of "What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? As you can see: https://fedorahosted.org/fama/wiki/AmbassadorMetrics views that we have had a steady increase since measurement began in January of 2006. That is until June of 2009. Once we can answer this question, we can begin to answer these sub-questions: 1) Who were these ambassadors? 2) What specific contributor groups were they apart of? 3) Where did they go after they left the ambassador group? Please feels free to give me your comments and suggestions regarding this issue, so we can start to problem solve some issues to help us provide better and more improved results, as we do technically with every release. All the best, Gregory -- Gregory Zysk https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gmzysk Fingerprint: 4643 E1AE 1AAD 85D4 6276 7C42 3591 A189 B8BF 04D6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsimon at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 14 13:20:49 2009 From: jsimon at fedoraproject.org (Joerg Simon) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:20:49 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200910141520.53022.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> Hi Gregory, if a FOSS community starts to deal to much with itself it could be, that focus gets lost and is not healthy. I think there is a risk to fail if one is trying to succesfully transport business measurement techniques one to one from business world into a FOSS Project. Measurement is about control and business controlls will not work here. But maybe we can adopt some of it! Please, this is not meant as a discouragement, it is a good idea to learn how things work in FOSS first - i know you are very eager to start and that is the reason i try provide you an answer for your questions - maybe we can achieve something great by combine things from both world. On Wednesday 14 October 2009 14:22:11 Gregory Zysk wrote: > One thing I would like to start with to help all of you form a marketing > mindset is to ask the question of "What happened in June of 2009 within the > Fedora Project? > > As you can see: https://fedorahosted.org/fama/wiki/AmbassadorMetrics views > that we have had a steady increase since measurement began in January of > 2006. That is until June of 2009. Just for notice - Fedora is far more than the Ambassadors Group which is only a (large) sub-project > Once we can answer this question, we can begin to answer these > sub-questions: > 1) Who were these ambassadors? In the past the Ambassador Group was often used by new Contributors as an entry level Group - which is what the Ambassador Group is definitely not - because you have not only to present Fedora as an OS - also the Project itself and therefore it is imperative to know the project better than anybody else. This is the reason why we have established a strong mentoring process and have a new membership process. You can see the result, who they are where they are from ... for the last month's here https://fedorahosted.org/fama/report/6 > 2) What specific contributor groups were they apart of? this should be easy to get from FAS by writing a script - is there a volunteer around ;) ? > 3) Where did they go after they left the ambassador group? You will notice the incursion in Jun 09 this was a big clean up of inactive accounts http://kitall.blogspot.com/2009_07_01_archive.html Hope this helps to clarify a bit cu Joerg -- Joerg (kital) Simon jsimon at fedoraproject.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon http://kitall.blogspot.com Key Fingerprint: 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From jsimon at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 14 13:46:51 2009 From: jsimon at fedoraproject.org (Joerg Simon) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:46:51 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <200910141520.53022.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <200910141520.53022.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200910141546.59165.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> replying to his own is also not healthy ;) but i want to add something On Wednesday 14 October 2009 15:20:49 Joerg Simon wrote: > I think there is a risk to fail if one is trying to succesfully transport > business measurement techniques one to one from business world into a FOSS > Project. Measurement is about control and business controlls will not work > here. But maybe we can adopt some of it! If you want measure success you need to quantify and measure that is for sure! > i know you are very eager to start and that is the reason i try provide > you an answer for your questions - maybe we can achieve something great by > combine things from both world. The right way to do things like that in fedora, would be a new "fedora statistics group" which could be a place for all people who like to gather data from fas, love to quantify and for people who want to interpret such things - the benefit, it keeps the "deal with us own" in this group. Away from the groups who want to be productive and do not wan't wasting time with such things (like writing scripts which will have no direct impact to the release itself) How sounds that? cu -- Joerg (kital) Simon jsimon at fedoraproject.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon http://kitall.blogspot.com Key Fingerprint: 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From gz.int.project at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 13:48:04 2009 From: gz.int.project at gmail.com (Gregory Zysk) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:48:04 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <200910141520.53022.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <200910141520.53022.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <9f7776d00910140648o34d3eae4hdf28f448d5a9a893@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Joerg Simon wrote: > Hi Gregory, > > if a FOSS community starts to deal to much with itself it could be, that > focus > gets lost and is not healthy. > I think there is a risk to fail if one is trying to succesfully transport > business measurement techniques one to one from business world into a FOSS > Project. Measurement is about control and business controlls will not work > here. But maybe we can adopt some of it! Please, this is not meant as a > discouragement, it is a good idea to learn how things work in FOSS first - > i > know you are very eager to start and that is the reason i try provide you > an > answer for your questions - maybe we can achieve something great by combine > things from both world. > >>>Joerg, I agree with you and do not want anyone to get the impression of that these measurement will be used for "control" purposes. A combination will be the best solution. Those people or companies which view the Fedora project from the outside will not always have the "open source/FOSS mindet" Especially those institutions within society which we are trying to "sell" or concept to (such as companies, NPO's, NGO's) since they have to abide by the legal contexts in which national and international law permits them to. I believe in order to properly promote Fedora at events or the like, we must be able to understand the "user" target group from a broader scale. This means transformative tactics in communication have to be used. Fedora Ambassadors and marketing members have to know how organizations and people think outside the community in order to target them, thus providing us with a broader target user base. Nonetheless, whether it is marketing in a non-profit, social venture or for profit organization the same general approaches/methods are used. > > > On Wednesday 14 October 2009 14:22:11 Gregory Zysk wrote: > > One thing I would like to start with to help all of you form a marketing > > mindset is to ask the question of "What happened in June of 2009 within > the > > Fedora Project? > > > > As you can see: https://fedorahosted.org/fama/wiki/AmbassadorMetricsviews > > that we have had a steady increase since measurement began in January of > > 2006. That is until June of 2009. > > Just for notice - Fedora is far more than the Ambassadors Group which is > only > a (large) sub-project > >>> Thanks, I understand this. > > > Once we can answer this question, we can begin to answer these > > sub-questions: > > 1) Who were these ambassadors? > > In the past the Ambassador Group was often used by new Contributors as an > entry level Group - which is what the Ambassador Group is definitely not - > because you have not only to present Fedora as an OS - also the Project > itself > and therefore it is imperative to know the project better than anybody > else. > This is the reason why we have established a strong mentoring process and > have > a new membership process. > >>> Thanks, I understand this also. > > You can see the result, who they are where they are from ... > for the last month's here > https://fedorahosted.org/fama/report/6 > > > 2) What specific contributor groups were they apart of? > > this should be easy to get from FAS by writing a script - is there a > volunteer around ;) ? > > >>> That would be nice;) > > 3) Where did they go after they left the ambassador group? > > You will notice the incursion in Jun 09 this was a big clean up > of inactive accounts > http://kitall.blogspot.com/2009_07_01_archive.html > >>> There is the answer I was looking for. So, maybe we need to adjust the metrics to reflect this? > > > Hope this helps to clarify a bit > > cu Joerg > > -- > Joerg (kital) Simon > jsimon at fedoraproject.org > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon > http://kitall.blogspot.com > Key Fingerprint: > 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688 > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Gregory Zysk https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gmzysk Fingerprint: 4643 E1AE 1AAD 85D4 6276 7C42 3591 A189 B8BF 04D6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gz.int.project at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 14:11:11 2009 From: gz.int.project at gmail.com (Gregory Zysk) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:11:11 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <200910141546.59165.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <200910141520.53022.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> <200910141546.59165.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <9f7776d00910140711y309cb6ces9b3c18f6b8e5663c@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Joerg Simon wrote: > replying to his own is also not healthy ;) but i want to add something > > On Wednesday 14 October 2009 15:20:49 Joerg Simon wrote: > > I think there is a risk to fail if one is trying to succesfully transport > > business measurement techniques one to one from business world into a > FOSS > > Project. Measurement is about control and business controlls will not > work > > here. But maybe we can adopt some of it! > > If you want measure success you need to quantify and measure that is for > sure! > >>> Measurement of success is great, but the definition of "success" is very broad. This is a form of output. In some social ventures success can be measured as social impact. From a technical side in Fedora, I believe this measurement is easier and can be measured by the innovations applied to every new release. From the non-technical aspect, it is a little more difficult to measure "success" That is why this is a good discussion of how we can measure this side of our "success". > > > i know you are very eager to start and that is the reason i try provide > > you an answer for your questions - maybe we can achieve something great > by > > combine things from both world. > > The right way to do things like that in fedora, would be a new "fedora > statistics group" which could be a place for all people who like to gather > data from fas, love to quantify and for people who want to interpret such > things - the benefit, it keeps the "deal with us own" in this group. Away > from > the groups who want to be productive and do not wan't wasting time with > such > things (like writing scripts which will have no direct impact to the > release > itself) > How sounds that? > > >>> A fedora statistics group would be good, but it is only the start. We need to know from the start what statistics/metrics/data we would like to produce and for what reasons we are producing these measures. > cu > > -- > Joerg (kital) Simon > jsimon at fedoraproject.org > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon > http://kitall.blogspot.com > Key Fingerprint: > 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688 > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Gregory Zysk https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gmzysk Fingerprint: 4643 E1AE 1AAD 85D4 6276 7C42 3591 A189 B8BF 04D6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsimon at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 14 14:17:20 2009 From: jsimon at fedoraproject.org (Joerg Simon) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:17:20 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <9f7776d00910140711y309cb6ces9b3c18f6b8e5663c@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <200910141546.59165.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> <9f7776d00910140711y309cb6ces9b3c18f6b8e5663c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200910141617.23890.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> On Wednesday 14 October 2009 16:11:11 Gregory Zysk wrote: > A fedora statistics group would be good, but it is only the start. We > need to know from the start what statistics/metrics/data we would like to > produce and for what reasons we are producing these measures. The first goal for this group ;) cu Joerg -- Joerg (kital) Simon jsimon at fedoraproject.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon http://kitall.blogspot.com Key Fingerprint: 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From gz.int.project at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 14:34:04 2009 From: gz.int.project at gmail.com (Gregory Zysk) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:34:04 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <200910141617.23890.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <200910141546.59165.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> <9f7776d00910140711y309cb6ces9b3c18f6b8e5663c@mail.gmail.com> <200910141617.23890.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <9f7776d00910140734h684a7058pb86450ecf02ac21c@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Joerg Simon wrote: > On Wednesday 14 October 2009 16:11:11 Gregory Zysk wrote: > > A fedora statistics group would be good, but it is only the start. We > > need to know from the start what statistics/metrics/data we would like to > > produce and for what reasons we are producing these measures. > > The first goal for this group ;) > >>> One of them, if not already defined, yes! > > cu Joerg > -- > Joerg (kital) Simon > jsimon at fedoraproject.org > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon > http://kitall.blogspot.com > Key Fingerprint: > 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688 > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Gregory Zysk https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gmzysk Fingerprint: 4643 E1AE 1AAD 85D4 6276 7C42 3591 A189 B8BF 04D6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christoph.wickert at googlemail.com Wed Oct 14 15:12:09 2009 From: christoph.wickert at googlemail.com (Christoph Wickert) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:12:09 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <9f7776d00910140648o34d3eae4hdf28f448d5a9a893@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <200910141520.53022.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> <9f7776d00910140648o34d3eae4hdf28f448d5a9a893@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1255533129.2866.96.camel@wicktop.localdomain> Am Mittwoch, den 14.10.2009, 15:48 +0200 schrieb Gregory Zysk: > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Joerg Simon > > You will notice the incursion in Jun 09 this was a big clean > up > of inactive accounts > http://kitall.blogspot.com/2009_07_01_archive.html > > >>> There is the answer I was looking for. So, maybe we need to adjust > the metrics to reflect this? Why should we? I think this is an example of what J?rg tried to explain when he said the a FOSS project doesn't need to behave like a company. The ambassadors project is not listed on the stock exchange. The numbers are honest, we should not manipulate them. We don't need to justify them to our boss or our stakeholders. The are only needed for internal use and all people in the project know that the process has changed in June. Regards, Christoph P.S.: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines#No_HTML_Mail.2C_Please From larry.cafiero at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 15:12:43 2009 From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 08:12:43 -0700 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7a0d56080910140812h77153f13hd9a945ce28ea5c3d@mail.gmail.com> Hey, all -- I'm not sure I'm following this proposal correctly, so I may need a little help. So maybe a little clarification might help, please. On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:22 AM, Gregory Zysk wrote: > Dear Marketing, > > One of the first things I see in order to help in marketing is the > establishment of measurement systems. Measurement systems allow us > internally to gauge how we are doing, and what needs to be improved. This is > true also for the those viewing the community from an external standpoint. > These measurements will provide us with more legitimacy and provide a > platform where we are transparent about our results and that our results are > measurable (and not some abstract way that no one can understand). I can > see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_research that we have begun > to start an formulate research that will be used to produce these > statistics, but fail to see any methodologies that are used to base these > questionnaires off of. > OK, that's fine. I'm with you so far, until we get to here: One thing I would like to start with to help all of you form a marketing > mindset is to ask the question of "What happened in June of 2009 within the > Fedora Project? > > As you can see: https://fedorahosted.org/fama/wiki/AmbassadorMetrics views > that we have had a steady increase since measurement began in January of > 2006. That is until June of 2009. > > Once we can answer this question, we can begin to answer these > sub-questions: > > 1) Who were these ambassadors? > 2) What specific contributor groups were they apart of? > 3) Where did they go after they left the ambassador group? > Joerg can probably help out here -- please do, Joerg -- but wasn't June 2009 when we implemented the mentor program for Ambassadors? Before this program, basically, the only requirement you needed to be a Fedora Ambassador was that you had an e-mail address, a regular pulse and steady breathing (although the breathing part didn't have to be steady, as long as you were breathing). Now there's a more detailed process to follow, which a.) scares off those who are not committed to Fedora and only want "free stuff," and b.) allows us a to cultivate a better quality of Ambassador. As Joerg may have mentioned also, I believe around this time the Ambassadors list was purged of non-participants. Messages were sent out and those who did not respond (or responded that they were no longer interested) were taken off. That could explain largely why numbers "dropped," providing a false negative when you look at the numbers without applying the changes. I could be wrong about the timing of the mentor project's initiation, but I would bet that's why numbers dropped. Please feels free to give me your comments and suggestions regarding this > issue, so we can start to problem solve some issues to help us provide > better and more improved results, as we do technically with every release. Unfortunately, I don't have as much time to participate in the marketing group as I would like, but I'd be more interested in analyzing external developments, like why did record numbers of people download Fedora 11 and what are their experiences (good/bad/indifferent) and build a marketing scenario around that, rather than use the time and effort to look internally at how many people participate in Fedora and why. Maybe I misunderstand your proposal, Gregory, but you asked for comments, so here are mine. Larry Cafiero Regional Ambassador, U.S. West Coast states Fedora Project -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gz.int.project at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 15:26:41 2009 From: gz.int.project at gmail.com (Gregory Zysk) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:26:41 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <1255533129.2866.96.camel@wicktop.localdomain> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <200910141520.53022.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> <9f7776d00910140648o34d3eae4hdf28f448d5a9a893@mail.gmail.com> <1255533129.2866.96.camel@wicktop.localdomain> Message-ID: <9f7776d00910140826q1ebd2bfbhe91b8a58eba98d1c@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Christoph Wickert < christoph.wickert at googlemail.com> wrote: > Am Mittwoch, den 14.10.2009, 15:48 +0200 schrieb Gregory Zysk: > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Joerg Simon > > > > You will notice the incursion in Jun 09 this was a big clean > > up > > of inactive accounts > > http://kitall.blogspot.com/2009_07_01_archive.html > > > > >>> There is the answer I was looking for. So, maybe we need to adjust > > the metrics to reflect this? > > Why should we? I think this is an example of what J?rg tried to explain > when he said the a FOSS project doesn't need to behave like a company. > > The ambassadors project is not listed on the stock exchange. The numbers > are honest, we should not manipulate them. We don't need to justify them > to our boss or our stakeholders. The are only needed for internal use > and all people in the project know that the process has changed in June. > >> If we interact with people outside the community, then yes we do need to have some sort of metrics that reflect what we do. Those should, of course, be honest, but also precise. Not just a round about figure. The reason being legitimacy. This is one of the largest gauge for an organization which produces knowledge as an output. In simple words, these figures can be used for external purposes. And why not? The resources are already there (in this case) > Regards, > Christoph > > > P.S.: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines#No_HTML_Mail.2C_Please > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Gregory Zysk https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gmzysk Fingerprint: 4643 E1AE 1AAD 85D4 6276 7C42 3591 A189 B8BF 04D6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gz.int.project at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 15:35:42 2009 From: gz.int.project at gmail.com (Gregory Zysk) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:35:42 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <7a0d56080910140812h77153f13hd9a945ce28ea5c3d@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <7a0d56080910140812h77153f13hd9a945ce28ea5c3d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9f7776d00910140835r294284c7pe7c6277cc4c1f4ce@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Larry Cafiero wrote: > Hey, all -- > > I'm not sure I'm following this proposal correctly, so I may need a little > help. So maybe a little clarification might help, please. > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:22 AM, Gregory Zysk wrote: > >> Dear Marketing, >> >> One of the first things I see in order to help in marketing is the >> establishment of measurement systems. Measurement systems allow us >> internally to gauge how we are doing, and what needs to be improved. This is >> true also for the those viewing the community from an external standpoint. >> These measurements will provide us with more legitimacy and provide a >> platform where we are transparent about our results and that our results are >> measurable (and not some abstract way that no one can understand). I can >> see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_research that we have begun >> to start an formulate research that will be used to produce these >> statistics, but fail to see any methodologies that are used to base these >> questionnaires off of. >> > > OK, that's fine. I'm with you so far, until we get to here: > > One thing I would like to start with to help all of you form a marketing >> mindset is to ask the question of "What happened in June of 2009 within the >> Fedora Project? >> >> As you can see: https://fedorahosted.org/fama/wiki/AmbassadorMetricsviews that we have had a steady increase since measurement began in January >> of 2006. That is until June of 2009. >> >> Once we can answer this question, we can begin to answer these >> sub-questions: >> >> 1) Who were these ambassadors? >> 2) What specific contributor groups were they apart of? >> 3) Where did they go after they left the ambassador group? >> > > Joerg can probably help out here -- please do, Joerg -- but wasn't June > 2009 when we implemented the mentor program for Ambassadors? Before this > program, basically, the only requirement you needed to be a Fedora > Ambassador was that you had an e-mail address, a regular pulse and steady > breathing (although the breathing part didn't have to be steady, as long as > you were breathing). Now there's a more detailed process to follow, which > a.) scares off those who are not committed to Fedora and only want "free > stuff," and b.) allows us a to cultivate a better quality of Ambassador. > > As Joerg may have mentioned also, I believe around this time the > Ambassadors list was purged of non-participants. Messages were sent out and > those who did not respond (or responded that they were no longer interested) > were taken off. > > That could explain largely why numbers "dropped," providing a false > negative when you look at the numbers without applying the changes. > > I could be wrong about the timing of the mentor project's initiation, but I > would bet that's why numbers dropped. > >>> This could very well be it (A change in the mentorship program). I am just trying to get some answers that will give me some feedback to formulate ideas from. > > Please feels free to give me your comments and suggestions regarding this >> issue, so we can start to problem solve some issues to help us provide >> better and more improved results, as we do technically with every release. > > > Unfortunately, I don't have as much time to participate in the marketing > group as I would like, but I'd be more interested in analyzing external > developments, like why did record numbers of people download Fedora 11 and > what are their experiences (good/bad/indifferent) and build a marketing > scenario around that, rather than use the time and effort to look internally > at how many people participate in Fedora and why. > >>> Your internal situation always reflects your external situation. For instance, if you are sad or not feeling good on the inside, other people will see that and then respond to you accordingly. I agree that these external experiences also need to be measured. There is a problem with measuring downloads though, it does not give us a realistic number of how many people actually use Fedora. It goes for the same ranking system on http://distrowatch.com/stats.php?section=popularity. These popularity rankings are just based off of downloads and just give us data to reflect just that: downloads. > > Maybe I misunderstand your proposal, Gregory, but you asked for comments, > so here are mine. > >>> Of course. I will always welcome your comments any all others too. Thank you for them :) > > Larry Cafiero > Regional Ambassador, U.S. West Coast states > Fedora Project > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Gregory Zysk https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gmzysk Fingerprint: 4643 E1AE 1AAD 85D4 6276 7C42 3591 A189 B8BF 04D6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christoph.wickert at googlemail.com Wed Oct 14 16:04:35 2009 From: christoph.wickert at googlemail.com (Christoph Wickert) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:04:35 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <9f7776d00910140826q1ebd2bfbhe91b8a58eba98d1c@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <200910141520.53022.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> <9f7776d00910140648o34d3eae4hdf28f448d5a9a893@mail.gmail.com> <1255533129.2866.96.camel@wicktop.localdomain> <9f7776d00910140826q1ebd2bfbhe91b8a58eba98d1c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1255536276.2866.127.camel@wicktop.localdomain> Am Mittwoch, den 14.10.2009, 17:26 +0200 schrieb Gregory Zysk: > >> If we interact with people outside the community, then yes we do > need to have some sort of metrics that reflect what we do. I don't think that the number of ambassadors reflects what we do. There are other ways to measure this: The number of events we do, the number of talks our ambassadors do or the number of Fedora installs [1] and so on. Take a look at Ubuntu, they seem measure their success by the number of Ubuntu CDs the gave away on an event. I recall talking to a guy from their community and he said: "It was a very successful event for Ubuntu, we gave away nearly 3000 CDs." I wasn't really surprised about the high number because they had big boxes of CDs standing in front of their booth. People walked by and grabbed 10 or 20 at once while the Ubuntu people were sitting behind their desk and reading books. To me this is no success. For me it is more important to have a nice conversation with somebody. We talk for 5 or 10 minutes and then I give him a Live-CD before he leaves. I'm sure this person is much more interested in Fedora and has learned more about the project than somebody who papers his restroom with Ubuntu-CDs because they bling so nice. ;) We must not take numbers as the key to everything. Numbers do not reflect how well a community is working or how people actually feel as being part of this community. Is there a way to measure pride or gratitude? > Those should, of course, be honest, but also precise. Not just a round > about figure. The reason being legitimacy. I think they are precise. The number of Ambassadors has decreased, but their quality has increased. How would you measure quality by numbers? > This is one of the largest gauge for an organization which produces > knowledge as an output. In simple words, these figures can be used for > external purposes. And why not? The resources are already there (in > this case) What kind of external purposes do you think of? Regards, Christoph [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics > P.S.: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines#No_HTML_Mail.2C_Please From robyn.bergeron at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 16:11:27 2009 From: robyn.bergeron at gmail.com (Robyn Bergeron) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:11:27 -0700 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <9f7776d00910140835r294284c7pe7c6277cc4c1f4ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <7a0d56080910140812h77153f13hd9a945ce28ea5c3d@mail.gmail.com> <9f7776d00910140835r294284c7pe7c6277cc4c1f4ce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5d4d90c90910140911tb981b1cic7182b0eface3239@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Gregory Zysk wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Larry Cafiero > wrote: >> >> Hey, all -- >> >> I'm not sure I'm following this proposal correctly, so I may need a little >> help. So maybe a little clarification might help, please. >> >> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:22 AM, Gregory Zysk >> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Marketing, >>> >>> One of the first things I see in order to help in marketing is the >>> establishment of measurement systems. Measurement systems allow us >>> internally to gauge how we are doing, and what needs to be improved. This is >>> true also for the those viewing the community from an external standpoint. >>> These measurements will provide us with more legitimacy and provide a >>> platform where we are transparent about our results and that our results are >>> measurable (and not some abstract way that no one can understand). I can >>> see?https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_research that we have begun to >>> start an formulate research that will be used to produce these statistics, >>> but fail to see any methodologies that are used to base these questionnaires >>> off of. >> >> OK, that's fine. I'm with you so far, until we get to here: >> >>> One thing I would like to start with to help all of you form a marketing >>> mindset is to ask the question of "What happened in June of 2009 within the >>> Fedora Project? >>> >>> As you can see: https://fedorahosted.org/fama/wiki/AmbassadorMetrics >>> views that we have had a steady increase since measurement began in January >>> of 2006. That is until June of 2009. >>> >>> Once we can answer this question, we can begin to answer these >>> sub-questions: >>> >>> 1) Who were these ambassadors? >>> 2) What specific contributor groups were they apart of? >>> 3) Where did they go after they left the ambassador group? >> >> Joerg can probably help out here -- please do, Joerg -- but wasn't June >> 2009 when we implemented the mentor program for Ambassadors? Before this >> program, basically, the only requirement you needed to be a Fedora >> Ambassador was that you had an e-mail address, a regular pulse and steady >> breathing (although the breathing part didn't have to be steady, as long as >> you were breathing). Now there's a more detailed process to follow, which >> a.) scares off those who are not committed to Fedora and only want "free >> stuff," and b.) allows us a to cultivate a better quality of Ambassador. >> >> As Joerg may have mentioned also, I believe around this time the >> Ambassadors list was purged of non-participants. Messages were sent out and >> those who did not respond (or responded that they were no longer interested) >> were taken off. >> >> That could explain largely why numbers "dropped," providing a false >> negative when you look at the numbers without applying the changes. >> >> I could be wrong about the timing of the mentor project's initiation, but >> I would bet that's why numbers dropped. > >>>> This could very well be it (A change in the mentorship program). I am >>>> just trying to get some answers that will give me some feedback to formulate >>>> ideas from. >> >>> Please feels free to give me your comments and suggestions regarding this >>> issue, so we can start to problem solve some issues to help us provide >>> better and more improved results, as we do technically with every release. >> >> Unfortunately, I don't have as much time to participate in the marketing >> group as I would like, but I'd be more interested in analyzing external >> developments, like why did record numbers of people download Fedora 11 and >> what are their experiences (good/bad/indifferent) and build a marketing >> scenario around that, rather than use the time and effort to look internally >> at how many people participate in Fedora and why. > >>>> Your internal situation always reflects your external situation. For >>>> instance, if you are sad or not feeling good on the inside, other people >>>> will see that and then respond to you accordingly. I agree that these >>>> external experiences also need to be measured. There is a problem with >>>> measuring downloads though, it does not give us a realistic number of how >>>> many people actually use Fedora. It goes for the same ranking system >>>> on?http://distrowatch.com/stats.php?section=popularity. These popularity >>>> rankings are just based off of downloads and just give us data to reflect >>>> just that: downloads. This is a perpetual problem, not just for Fedora but for Linux in general. For the most part, Linux doesn't have the luxury of selling licenses and thus the ability to produce a magic number of exactly how many machines, or how many users, there actually are. There is actually, or at least was in the past, a project to try and tackle this (and my brain is suffering from a lack of caffeine at the moment, so I unfortunately can't remember what they are called offhand) -- but the concept of asking users to have an automatic registration of their server / pc with any sort of tracking authority just doesn't jive well with the freedom lovers out there, myself included. (Not to mention it just invites the opportunity for people to automate a way to register their PC 600 times a day, skewing the numbers.) Now, some market research companies do take a stab at this (see http://www.linuxfoundation.org/sites/main/files/publications/Linux_in_New_Economy.pdf .... page 3) - but from my understanding the non-paid part is a formula of downloads to actual usage ratios, with some other magic thrown, a little bit of backrubbing, and who knows what else. All that said: yes, I would agree that knowing how many people are actually using Fedora, vs. just downloading it, would be a fun statistic to have. But I'm not sure where that gets us. Certainly, it defines a market for us, assuming we could figure out our percentage of share vs. other distributions, and gives us a goal to strive for; it does not, however, define how we get from where we are to where we want to be. And as Larry pointed out, asking our end-users questions about their experiences (are you happy with X, Y, Z, on a scale of 1 - 5, etc) is a Good Thing. It allows us to (a) know our strengths, which we should capitalize on, and continue to focus in those areas and make sure that hard work continues to pay off, and (b) know our weaknesses, so we can fill in those gaps. Even if we can't define just how big our user base is, or compare it size-wise with other distributions, we can at least focus on making things greater; if we know who are users are, we can cater to them better, and if we know who are users are not, we can make decisions about whether or not we want to go after them, what it would take. $.02, robyn >> >> Maybe I misunderstand your proposal, Gregory, but you asked for comments, >> so here are mine. > >>>> Of course. I will always welcome your comments any all others too. Thank >>>> you for them :) >> >> Larry Cafiero >> Regional Ambassador, U.S. West Coast states >> Fedora Project >> >> >> -- >> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list >> Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > -- > Gregory Zysk > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gmzysk > > Fingerprint: 4643 E1AE 1AAD 85D4 6276 > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?7C42 3591 A189 B8BF 04D6 > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From taljurf at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 14 16:15:46 2009 From: taljurf at fedoraproject.org (Tareq Al Jurf) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:15:46 +0300 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <1255536276.2866.127.camel@wicktop.localdomain> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <200910141520.53022.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> <9f7776d00910140648o34d3eae4hdf28f448d5a9a893@mail.gmail.com> <1255533129.2866.96.camel@wicktop.localdomain> <9f7776d00910140826q1ebd2bfbhe91b8a58eba98d1c@mail.gmail.com> <1255536276.2866.127.camel@wicktop.localdomain> Message-ID: <12d8a2fa0910140915s773898f4r5383c658963d276f@mail.gmail.com> 2009/10/14 Christoph Wickert > Am Mittwoch, den 14.10.2009, 17:26 +0200 schrieb Gregory Zysk: > > > > >> If we interact with people outside the community, then yes we do > > need to have some sort of metrics that reflect what we do. > > I don't think that the number of ambassadors reflects what we do. There > are other ways to measure this: The number of events we do, the number > of talks our ambassadors do or the number of Fedora installs [1] and so > on. > > Take a look at Ubuntu, they seem measure their success by the number of > Ubuntu CDs the gave away on an event. I recall talking to a guy from > their community and he said: "It was a very successful event for Ubuntu, > we gave away nearly 3000 CDs." I wasn't really surprised about the high > number because they had big boxes of CDs standing in front of their > booth. People walked by and grabbed 10 or 20 at once while the Ubuntu > people were sitting behind their desk and reading books. > To me this is no success. For me it is more important to have a nice > conversation with somebody. We talk for 5 or 10 minutes and then I give > him a Live-CD before he leaves. I'm sure this person is much more > interested in Fedora and has learned more about the project than > somebody who papers his restroom with Ubuntu-CDs because they bling so > nice. ;) > > We must not take numbers as the key to everything. Numbers do not > reflect how well a community is working or how people actually feel as > being part of this community. Is there a way to measure pride or > gratitude? > > > Those should, of course, be honest, but also precise. Not just a round > > about figure. The reason being legitimacy. > > I think they are precise. The number of Ambassadors has decreased, but > their quality has increased. How would you measure quality by numbers? > > Exactly I've noticed that the ambassadors available now have full profiles and are very active Before that i used to find ambassadors that have only a couple of words on their profiles. But know whenever Joerg Simon sends a welcome message, i like to see their profiles a lot better and productive than before. > > This is one of the largest gauge for an organization which produces > > knowledge as an output. In simple words, these figures can be used for > > external purposes. And why not? The resources are already there (in > > this case) > > What kind of external purposes do you think of? > > Regards, > Christoph > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics > > > P.S.: > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines#No_HTML_Mail.2C_Please > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Tareq Al Jurf Fedora Ambassador Riyadh, Saudi Arabia taljurf at fedoraproject.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christoph.wickert at googlemail.com Wed Oct 14 16:22:30 2009 From: christoph.wickert at googlemail.com (Christoph Wickert) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:22:30 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <9f7776d00910140835r294284c7pe7c6277cc4c1f4ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <7a0d56080910140812h77153f13hd9a945ce28ea5c3d@mail.gmail.com> <9f7776d00910140835r294284c7pe7c6277cc4c1f4ce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1255537350.2866.145.camel@wicktop.localdomain> Am Mittwoch, den 14.10.2009, 17:35 +0200 schrieb Gregory Zysk: > There is a problem with measuring downloads though, it does not give > us a realistic number of how many people actually use Fedora. We do have smolt data for that: http://smolt.fedoraproject.org/static/stats/stats.html > It goes for the same ranking system on > http://distrowatch.com/stats.php?section=popularity. These popularity > rankings are just based off of downloads and just give us data to > reflect just that: downloads. And you think distrowatch is more representative? I don't think so. Distrowatch is counting visitors by user agent strings. Ask yourself: Who visits distrowatch? Likely somebody who is looking for a new distro to try. So are these people really happy with their distro or even convinced of it? This is something the numbers cannot show. By counting uniqe visits, you wont get numbers of OS installations or users, because you don't know how often people visit that site. There are people who say the number of Fedora installs is actually larger than the number of Ubuntu installations, but quite a lot of them are servers running in data centers [1]. They will never show up at distrowatch because servers usually don't visit that site. ;) Regards, Christoph [1] Just look at the high number of virtual machines in smolt. From robyn.bergeron at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 16:24:06 2009 From: robyn.bergeron at gmail.com (Robyn Bergeron) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:24:06 -0700 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <7a0d56080910140812h77153f13hd9a945ce28ea5c3d@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <7a0d56080910140812h77153f13hd9a945ce28ea5c3d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5d4d90c90910140924s44478fddn7ff80fef921d5578@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Larry Cafiero wrote: > Hey, all -- > > I'm not sure I'm following this proposal correctly, so I may need a little > help. So maybe a little clarification might help, please. > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:22 AM, Gregory Zysk > wrote: >> >> Dear Marketing, >> >> One of the first things I see in order to help in marketing is the >> establishment of measurement systems. Measurement systems allow us >> internally to gauge how we are doing, and what needs to be improved. This is >> true also for the those viewing the community from an external standpoint. >> These measurements will provide us with more legitimacy and provide a >> platform where we are transparent about our results and that our results are >> measurable (and not some abstract way that no one can understand). I can >> see?https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_research that we have begun to >> start an formulate research that will be used to produce these statistics, >> but fail to see any methodologies that are used to base these questionnaires >> off of. > I'll have a more extensive response later this morning (like after I replace my headlight on my car, ugh!) - but I just wanted to interject here before we go running off on a tangent: As the person heading up the market research "stuff," I would be delighted to have more input / help in the process. I'm not quite sure what you mean by methodologies, or if you mean something more like goals, long-term strategy, etc.; at this point, given the lack of any sort of user research being done in the past several years, the first swag at doing surveys is to get a general baseline of who are users ARE, so that we know who they are not, for the purposes of generally catering to Fedora customers better. Or to put it in marketing-speak: determine who our market is, where our market could be, with the end goal of figuring out how we get from point A to point B. The fact is, we can speculate a lot about who Fedora users are, what types of user groups they fit into (IT people? college students? predominantly people not in the US?) - but without asking who they are, and getting a general feel for that, and what their general satisfaction levels are, we really can't start to ask more pointed questions. In fact, it becomes difficult to even set goals, or define strategies; we certainly don't want to put ourselves in the position of setting goals that are either impossible to obtain, or essentially already achieved. And WRT goals / strategies, there has been a thread ongoing on the fedora board mailing list discussing this very subject; Mel sent out a mail last Friday referencing this. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2009-October/msg00035.html As an FYI, there is more coming on the market research front, which I'll be sending out hopefully today; I've been saddled with being sick, school stuff, and a lost cat :( so things haven't been moving the way I'd like them to. However, this discussion has been filled with lots of goodness that I'll be taking into consideration, and of course I'd like feedback when I send things out for people to review. > OK, that's fine. I'm with you so far, until we get to here: > >> One thing I would like to start with to help all of you form a marketing >> mindset is to ask the question of "What happened in June of 2009 within the >> Fedora Project? >> >> As you can see: https://fedorahosted.org/fama/wiki/AmbassadorMetrics views >> that we have had a steady increase since measurement began in January of >> 2006. That is until June of 2009. >> >> Once we can answer this question, we can begin to answer these >> sub-questions: >> >> 1) Who were these ambassadors? >> 2) What specific contributor groups were they apart of? >> 3) Where did they go after they left the ambassador group? > > Joerg can probably help out here -- please do, Joerg -- but wasn't June 2009 > when we implemented the mentor program for Ambassadors? Before this program, > basically, the only requirement you needed to be a Fedora Ambassador was > that you had an e-mail address, a regular pulse and steady breathing > (although the breathing part didn't have to be steady, as long as you were > breathing). Now there's a more detailed process to follow, which a.) scares > off those who are not committed to Fedora and only want "free stuff," and > b.) allows us a to cultivate a better quality of Ambassador. > > As Joerg may have mentioned also, I believe around this time the Ambassadors > list was purged of non-participants. Messages were sent out and those who > did not respond (or responded that they were no longer interested) were > taken off. > > That could explain largely why numbers "dropped," providing a false negative > when you look at the numbers without applying the changes. > > I could be wrong about the timing of the mentor project's initiation, but I > would bet that's why numbers dropped. > >> Please feels free to give me your comments and suggestions regarding this >> issue, so we can start to problem solve some issues to help us provide >> better and more improved results, as we do technically with every release. > > Unfortunately, I don't have as much time to participate in the marketing > group as I would like, but I'd be more interested in analyzing external > developments, like why did record numbers of people download Fedora 11 and > what are their experiences (good/bad/indifferent) and build a marketing > scenario around that, rather than use the time and effort to look internally > at how many people participate in Fedora and why. This is precisely the kind of information I'd like to be getting from doing user surveys in the future. Figure out what we are doing right, and do more of it; figure out what is going wrong, and fix it. As for internal surveying, I think it would be useful to occasionally gauge community members on their satisfaction levels, etc., but I think this unfortunately becomes an exercise in scratching our own backs; if they're here, they're probably happy, if they're not, they certainly have the freedom to voice their opinions and dissatisfactions (and likely are doing so), and if they are leaving, there is probably a very low percentage that they will come back. The dissatisfaction level, I would suspect, would probably be low enough to not warrant any huge changes to "the system"; it would be more something that would need to be tackled on a one-on-one basis, which is not something you want to do when you're surveying people (ie: I'm going to get your name, and then I'm going to contact you directly - this tends to turn survey participants off quite a bit). Individual group leaders could take on the task of figuring out why their people are leaving, particularly if it seems to be systemic, but this may be a lot to ask, but could certainly be valuable in preventing the issues that caused community members to leave in the first place. As for general statistics - I think it is certainly interesting, and definitely something that could be automated/scripted, but we need to be careful to not bombard users with endless requests for how they are feeling. Once a quarter, twice a year, focused on specific topics is the way to go, IMO. Looking at things like downloads, what countries they are coming from, what architectures people are using can certainly be valuable (if we have a crapton of downloads originating in the Bahamas, and no ambassador there, then we might want to start having the "who wants to move to the islands!!! contest) to ensure that we are focusing resources in the right places. > > Maybe I misunderstand your proposal, Gregory, but you asked for comments, so > here are mine. > > Larry Cafiero > Regional Ambassador, U.S. West Coast states > Fedora Project > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From christoph.wickert at googlemail.com Wed Oct 14 16:27:38 2009 From: christoph.wickert at googlemail.com (Christoph Wickert) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:27:38 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <12d8a2fa0910140915s773898f4r5383c658963d276f@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <200910141520.53022.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> <9f7776d00910140648o34d3eae4hdf28f448d5a9a893@mail.gmail.com> <1255533129.2866.96.camel@wicktop.localdomain> <9f7776d00910140826q1ebd2bfbhe91b8a58eba98d1c@mail.gmail.com> <1255536276.2866.127.camel@wicktop.localdomain> <12d8a2fa0910140915s773898f4r5383c658963d276f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1255537658.2866.150.camel@wicktop.localdomain> Am Mittwoch, den 14.10.2009, 19:15 +0300 schrieb Tareq Al Jurf: > > > 2009/10/14 Christoph Wickert > > > The number of Ambassadors has decreased, but > their quality has increased. How would you measure quality by > numbers? > > > Exactly > I've noticed that the ambassadors available now have full profiles and > are very active > Before that i used to find ambassadors that have only a couple of > words on their profiles. > But now whenever Joerg Simon sends a welcome message, i like to see > their profiles a lot better and productive than before. You see, this is something we actually *can* measure and we see that the new mentoring program bears fruit. Glad to hear that, so I don't really care about a few inactive ambassadors being removed and some numbers going down for a month. Regards, Christoph From robyn.bergeron at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 16:46:50 2009 From: robyn.bergeron at gmail.com (Robyn Bergeron) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:46:50 -0700 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <200910141520.53022.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <200910141520.53022.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <5d4d90c90910140946r4bf57be8ifde353f5778f60b1@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 6:20 AM, Joerg Simon wrote: > Hi Gregory, > > if a FOSS community starts to deal to much with itself it could be, that focus > gets lost and is not healthy. > I think there is a risk to fail if one is trying to succesfully transport > business measurement techniques one to one from business world into a FOSS > Project. Measurement is about control and business controlls will not work > here. But maybe we can adopt some of it! Please, this is not meant as a > discouragement, it is a good idea to learn how things work in FOSS first - i > know you are very eager to start and that is the reason i try provide you an > answer for your questions - maybe we can achieve something great by combine > things from both world. I would agree that there is definitely not a 1:1 from FOSS to the business world. I used to work for a Very Big Processor company, where most things came out of a marketing plan, and I would be willing to be a very large sum of money (or at least, a coffee for someone!) that if employees came to work and started doing something that was not on the plan, upper management would have had numerous seizures. And god forbid if people who didn't even work there started showing up and doing things. I'd also bet (now i'm up to two coffees!) that if Linus had had a marketing team defining a list of project requirements, we would all be typing our emails on a different type of machine right now. That is not to say that Marketing, specifically the strategic marketing end of things, doesn't have a role in Fedora or Linux. FOSS simply has a different way of going about things; users see gaps, or room for improvements, and they come and fix it, and become participants in the overall community. Many of these community members are doing this on their own time, not as part of their jobs; if they wanted someone to dictate to them what they should be working on, they would probably just go and work longer hours at their jobs. Strategic marketing, in my opinion, should be a guiding light for the engineers. Imagine if a group of people got together and decided to build a road, so they just do it (I'll just ignore the part about how the government is totally going to come and slap them around for not having permits and whatnot). These road engineers, who are busting their butts doing an awesome job for the greater good, don't want people nitpicking them to death on what they aren't doing; they might, however, appreciate information like, "Oh hey, you guys are aware that 6 miles up the road you haven't built yet is a huge chasm - you might want to start thinking about how to build a bridge!" or "Hey guys...we just talked to the people in the city, and it looks like you might need an additional lane for all the traffic you're going to be getting." And when the road is done, it never hurts to let them know that - hey! - 95% of the community thinks that your road is freakin awesome. Basically, doing end-user research accomplishes a few things - it lets engineering know what is going right, and what is not going so right, and maybe what can be done to fix it. There are also tons of untapped potential community members out there; if we present them with a list of ways to participate, rather than expecting them to find a niche on their own, we can get more participants. I'm pretty sure that was fairly incoherent. I'll be going to find some caffeine now. :) -robyn > > > On Wednesday 14 October 2009 14:22:11 Gregory Zysk wrote: >> One thing I would like to start with to help all of you form a marketing >> mindset is to ask the question of "What happened in June of 2009 within the >> Fedora Project? >> >> As you can see: https://fedorahosted.org/fama/wiki/AmbassadorMetrics views >> that we have had a steady increase since measurement began in January of >> 2006. That is until June of 2009. > > Just for notice - Fedora is far more than the Ambassadors Group which is only > a (large) sub-project > >> Once we can answer this question, we can begin to answer these >> sub-questions: >> 1) Who were these ambassadors? > > In the past the Ambassador Group was often used by new Contributors as an > entry level Group - which is what the Ambassador Group is definitely not - > because you have not only to present Fedora as an OS - also the Project itself > and therefore it is imperative to know the project better than anybody else. > This is the reason why we have established a strong mentoring process and have > a new membership process. > > You can see the result, who they are where they are from ... > for the last month's here > https://fedorahosted.org/fama/report/6 > >> 2) What specific contributor groups were they apart of? > > this should be easy to get from FAS by writing a script - ?is there a > volunteer around ;) ? > >> 3) Where did they go after they left the ambassador group? > > You will notice the incursion in Jun 09 this was a big clean up > of inactive accounts > http://kitall.blogspot.com/2009_07_01_archive.html > > > Hope this helps to clarify a bit > > cu Joerg > > -- > Joerg (kital) Simon > jsimon at fedoraproject.org > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon > http://kitall.blogspot.com > Key Fingerprint: > 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688 > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From gz.int.project at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 16:47:10 2009 From: gz.int.project at gmail.com (Gregory Zysk) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:47:10 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <1255536276.2866.127.camel@wicktop.localdomain> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <200910141520.53022.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> <9f7776d00910140648o34d3eae4hdf28f448d5a9a893@mail.gmail.com> <1255533129.2866.96.camel@wicktop.localdomain> <9f7776d00910140826q1ebd2bfbhe91b8a58eba98d1c@mail.gmail.com> <1255536276.2866.127.camel@wicktop.localdomain> Message-ID: <9f7776d00910140947w462a9515j7ece2b1f2ed153ca@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Christoph Wickert < christoph.wickert at googlemail.com> wrote: > Am Mittwoch, den 14.10.2009, 17:26 +0200 schrieb Gregory Zysk: > > > > >> If we interact with people outside the community, then yes we do > > need to have some sort of metrics that reflect what we do. > > I don't think that the number of ambassadors reflects what we do. There > are other ways to measure this: The number of events we do, the number > of talks our ambassadors do or the number of Fedora installs [1] and so > >>>Agreed. But it gives us a start and focus as a platform to build from. > on. > > Take a look at Ubuntu, they seem measure their success by the number of > Ubuntu CDs the gave away on an event. I recall talking to a guy from > their community and he said: "It was a very successful event for Ubuntu, > we gave away nearly 3000 CDs." I wasn't really surprised about the high > number because they had big boxes of CDs standing in front of their > booth. People walked by and grabbed 10 or 20 at once while the Ubuntu > people were sitting behind their desk and reading books. > To me this is no success. For me it is more important to have a nice > conversation with somebody. We talk for 5 or 10 minutes and then I give > him a Live-CD before he leaves. I'm sure this person is much more > interested in Fedora and has learned more about the project than > somebody who papers his restroom with Ubuntu-CDs because they bling so > nice. ;) > > >>> Agreed also. That is a waste of time and financial resources which could be better used elsewhere. We must not take numbers as the key to everything. Numbers do not > reflect how well a community is working or how people actually feel as > being part of this community. Is there a way to measure pride or > gratitude? > >>>Again. Agreed. Numbers are not everything to you, but they are the basis when trying to get sponsorship/support from other organizations (government, NGO, For-profit, etc) > > > Those should, of course, be honest, but also precise. Not just a round > > about figure. The reason being legitimacy. > > I think they are precise. The number of Ambassadors has decreased, but > their quality has increased. How would you measure quality by numbers? > >>>Difficult. We need to build a methodology and sampling to support that. > > > This is one of the largest gauge for an organization which produces > > knowledge as an output. In simple words, these figures can be used for > > external purposes. And why not? The resources are already there (in > > this case) > > What kind of external purposes do you think of? > > Regards, > Christoph > >>>Events are good, papers at events could be one, contributions, initiated projects, sponsorships, trainings......There are many different possible variables that can be measured. We just have to define some and build off of that. > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics > > > P.S.: > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines#No_HTML_Mail.2C_Please > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Gregory Zysk https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gmzysk Fingerprint: 4643 E1AE 1AAD 85D4 6276 7C42 3591 A189 B8BF 04D6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gz.int.project at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 17:36:15 2009 From: gz.int.project at gmail.com (Gregory Zysk) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:36:15 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <1255537350.2866.145.camel@wicktop.localdomain> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <7a0d56080910140812h77153f13hd9a945ce28ea5c3d@mail.gmail.com> <9f7776d00910140835r294284c7pe7c6277cc4c1f4ce@mail.gmail.com> <1255537350.2866.145.camel@wicktop.localdomain> Message-ID: <9f7776d00910141036l736d2eccs751af175a86d860e@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Christoph Wickert < christoph.wickert at googlemail.com> wrote: > Am Mittwoch, den 14.10.2009, 17:35 +0200 schrieb Gregory Zysk: > > > There is a problem with measuring downloads though, it does not give > > us a realistic number of how many people actually use Fedora. > > We do have smolt data for that: > http://smolt.fedoraproject.org/static/stats/stats.html > > > It goes for the same ranking system on > > http://distrowatch.com/stats.php?section=popularity. These popularity > > rankings are just based off of downloads and just give us data to > > reflect just that: downloads. > > And you think distrowatch is more representative? I don't think so. > >>> It is representative for downloads, or at least some of them. > > Distrowatch is counting visitors by user agent strings. Ask yourself: > Who visits distrowatch? >>>I did!! That is how I cam to using Fedora. That is how everyone I know has referred me to and the same way they came to using FOSS. > Likely somebody who is looking for a new distro > to try. So are these people really happy with their distro or even > convinced of it? >>>This is accomplished by separate surveys or sampling techniques. > This is something the numbers cannot show. > >>>Once a methodology and research design is set in place. These numbers will show exactly what you have created them to be. > > By counting uniqe visits, you wont get numbers of OS installations or > users, because you don't know how often people visit that site. There > are people who say the number of Fedora installs is actually larger than > the number of Ubuntu installations, but quite a lot of them are servers > running in data centers [1]. They will never show up at distrowatch > because servers usually don't visit that site. ;) > >>>This from an objective point of view is just opinion. You ask an Ubuntu user and they will say they have the most. You ask a person who works for microsoft who has the best OS? Don't be surprised if they say: microsoft. > > Regards, > Christoph > > [1] Just look at the high number of virtual machines in smolt. > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Gregory Zysk https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gmzysk Fingerprint: 4643 E1AE 1AAD 85D4 6276 7C42 3591 A189 B8BF 04D6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gz.int.project at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 17:47:16 2009 From: gz.int.project at gmail.com (Gregory Zysk) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:47:16 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <5d4d90c90910140924s44478fddn7ff80fef921d5578@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <7a0d56080910140812h77153f13hd9a945ce28ea5c3d@mail.gmail.com> <5d4d90c90910140924s44478fddn7ff80fef921d5578@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9f7776d00910141047ic82d391u3d55390717a20e29@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Robyn Bergeron wrote: > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Larry Cafiero > wrote: > > Hey, all -- > > > > I'm not sure I'm following this proposal correctly, so I may need a > little > > help. So maybe a little clarification might help, please. > > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:22 AM, Gregory Zysk > > wrote: > >> > >> Dear Marketing, > >> > >> One of the first things I see in order to help in marketing is the > >> establishment of measurement systems. Measurement systems allow us > >> internally to gauge how we are doing, and what needs to be improved. > This is > >> true also for the those viewing the community from an external > standpoint. > >> These measurements will provide us with more legitimacy and provide a > >> platform where we are transparent about our results and that our results > are > >> measurable (and not some abstract way that no one can understand). I can > >> see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_research that we have > begun to > >> start an formulate research that will be used to produce these > statistics, > >> but fail to see any methodologies that are used to base these > questionnaires > >> off of. > > > > I'll have a more extensive response later this morning (like after I > replace my headlight on my car, ugh!) - but I just wanted to interject > here before we go running off on a tangent: > > As the person heading up the market research "stuff," I would be > delighted to have more input / help in the process. I'm not quite sure > what you mean by methodologies >>>Methodology -How you will attack to apply your research. It usually consists of which secondary/primary data you are basing your research design off of. The next is Research design: Will this consist of exploratory (interviews/focus groups) or descriptive research (survey methods and errors)? If per say you use a descriptive research design: Which sampling will you use? The things I have seen proposed before (I.E. Do you like Fedora? 1-5 Very Much, Much, Average, Not much, not at all) this is called likert scaling. This is market research and market research is a science. It does not show difference to a profit-industry or FOSS. It is not industry specific. , or if you mean something more like > goals, long-term strategy, etc.; >>>This is what is formed from the Market research process:) > at this point, given the lack of any > sort of user research being done in the past several years, the first > swag at doing surveys is to get a general baseline of who are users > ARE, so that we know who they are not, for the purposes of generally > catering to Fedora customers better >>>This data can be used for a pilot for the greater market research process as a whole. > . Or to put it in marketing-speak: > determine who our market is, where our market could be, with the end > goal of figuring out how we get from point A to point B. >>>That is generally the point. > The fact is, > we can speculate a lot about who Fedora users are, what types of user > groups they fit into (IT people? college students? predominantly > people not in the US?) - but without asking who they are, and getting > a general feel for that, and what their general satisfaction levels > are, we really can't start to ask more pointed questions. In fact, it > becomes difficult to even set goals, or define strategies; we > certainly don't want to put ourselves in the position of setting goals > that are either impossible to obtain, or essentially already achieved. > > And WRT goals / strategies, there has been a thread ongoing on the > fedora board mailing list discussing this very subject; Mel sent out a > mail last Friday referencing this. > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2009-October/msg00035.html > > As an FYI, there is more coming on the market research front, which > I'll be sending out hopefully today; I've been saddled with being > sick, school stuff, and a lost cat :( so things haven't been moving > the way I'd like them to. However, this discussion has been filled > with lots of goodness that I'll be taking into consideration, and of > course I'd like feedback when I send things out for people to review. > >>> Sorry to hear that :( > > > OK, that's fine. I'm with you so far, until we get to here: > > > >> One thing I would like to start with to help all of you form a marketing > >> mindset is to ask the question of "What happened in June of 2009 within > the > >> Fedora Project? > >> > >> As you can see: https://fedorahosted.org/fama/wiki/AmbassadorMetricsviews > >> that we have had a steady increase since measurement began in January of > >> 2006. That is until June of 2009. > >> > >> Once we can answer this question, we can begin to answer these > >> sub-questions: > >> > >> 1) Who were these ambassadors? > >> 2) What specific contributor groups were they apart of? > >> 3) Where did they go after they left the ambassador group? > > > > Joerg can probably help out here -- please do, Joerg -- but wasn't June > 2009 > > when we implemented the mentor program for Ambassadors? Before this > program, > > basically, the only requirement you needed to be a Fedora Ambassador was > > that you had an e-mail address, a regular pulse and steady breathing > > (although the breathing part didn't have to be steady, as long as you > were > > breathing). Now there's a more detailed process to follow, which a.) > scares > > off those who are not committed to Fedora and only want "free stuff," and > > b.) allows us a to cultivate a better quality of Ambassador. > > > > As Joerg may have mentioned also, I believe around this time the > Ambassadors > > list was purged of non-participants. Messages were sent out and those who > > did not respond (or responded that they were no longer interested) were > > taken off. > > > > That could explain largely why numbers "dropped," providing a false > negative > > when you look at the numbers without applying the changes. > > > > I could be wrong about the timing of the mentor project's initiation, but > I > > would bet that's why numbers dropped. > > > >> Please feels free to give me your comments and suggestions regarding > this > >> issue, so we can start to problem solve some issues to help us provide > >> better and more improved results, as we do technically with every > release. > > > > Unfortunately, I don't have as much time to participate in the marketing > > group as I would like, but I'd be more interested in analyzing external > > developments, like why did record numbers of people download Fedora 11 > and > > what are their experiences (good/bad/indifferent) and build a marketing > > scenario around that, rather than use the time and effort to look > internally > > at how many people participate in Fedora and why. > > This is precisely the kind of information I'd like to be getting from > doing user surveys in the future. Figure out what we are doing right, > and do more of it; figure out what is going wrong, and fix it. > > As for internal surveying, I think it would be useful to occasionally > gauge community members on their satisfaction levels, etc., but I > think this unfortunately becomes an exercise in scratching our own > backs; if they're here, they're probably happy, if they're not, they > certainly have the freedom to voice their opinions and > dissatisfactions (and likely are doing so), and if they are leaving, > there is probably a very low percentage that they will come back. The > dissatisfaction level, I would suspect, would probably be low enough > to not warrant any huge changes to "the system"; it would be more > something that would need to be tackled on a one-on-one basis, which > is not something you want to do when you're surveying people (ie: I'm > going to get your name, and then I'm going to contact you directly - > this tends to turn survey participants off quite a bit). Individual > group leaders could take on the task of figuring out why their people > are leaving, particularly if it seems to be systemic, but this may be > a lot to ask, but could certainly be valuable in preventing the issues > that caused community members to leave in the first place. > > As for general statistics - I think it is certainly interesting, and > definitely something that could be automated/scripted, but we need to > be careful to not bombard users with endless requests for how they are > feeling. Once a quarter, twice a year, focused on specific topics is > the way to go, IMO. Looking at things like downloads, what countries > they are coming from, what architectures people are using can > certainly be valuable (if we have a crapton of downloads originating > in the Bahamas, and no ambassador there, then we might want to start > having the "who wants to move to the islands!!! contest) to ensure > that we are focusing resources in the right places. > > > > > Maybe I misunderstand your proposal, Gregory, but you asked for comments, > so > > here are mine. > > > > Larry Cafiero > > Regional Ambassador, U.S. West Coast states > > Fedora Project > > > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Gregory Zysk https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gmzysk Fingerprint: 4643 E1AE 1AAD 85D4 6276 7C42 3591 A189 B8BF 04D6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gz.int.project at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 17:49:59 2009 From: gz.int.project at gmail.com (Gregory Zysk) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:49:59 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <1255537658.2866.150.camel@wicktop.localdomain> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <200910141520.53022.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> <9f7776d00910140648o34d3eae4hdf28f448d5a9a893@mail.gmail.com> <1255533129.2866.96.camel@wicktop.localdomain> <9f7776d00910140826q1ebd2bfbhe91b8a58eba98d1c@mail.gmail.com> <1255536276.2866.127.camel@wicktop.localdomain> <12d8a2fa0910140915s773898f4r5383c658963d276f@mail.gmail.com> <1255537658.2866.150.camel@wicktop.localdomain> Message-ID: <9f7776d00910141049ybf07756x8c54d68a82dbe748@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Christoph Wickert < christoph.wickert at googlemail.com> wrote: > Am Mittwoch, den 14.10.2009, 19:15 +0300 schrieb Tareq Al Jurf: > > > > > > 2009/10/14 Christoph Wickert > > > > > > The number of Ambassadors has decreased, but > > their quality has increased. How would you measure quality by > > numbers? > > > > > > Exactly > > I've noticed that the ambassadors available now have full profiles and > > are very active > > Before that i used to find ambassadors that have only a couple of > > words on their profiles. > > But now whenever Joerg Simon sends a welcome message, i like to see > > their profiles a lot better and productive than before. > > You see, this is something we actually *can* measure and we see that the > new mentoring program bears fruit. Glad to hear that, so I don't really > care about a few inactive ambassadors being removed and some numbers > going down for a month. > >>>Yes this is good. But the mentoring program and/or ambassador program is just an example of the data which has been provided. We can do this for other parts of the project and for a collective way of measurement for other things :) > > Regards, > Christoph > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Gregory Zysk https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gmzysk Fingerprint: 4643 E1AE 1AAD 85D4 6276 7C42 3591 A189 B8BF 04D6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gz.int.project at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 17:56:21 2009 From: gz.int.project at gmail.com (Gregory Zysk) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:56:21 +0200 Subject: What happened in June of 2009 within the Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <5d4d90c90910140946r4bf57be8ifde353f5778f60b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7776d00910140522o4a78ca3k7bbf10f97d1d278@mail.gmail.com> <200910141520.53022.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> <5d4d90c90910140946r4bf57be8ifde353f5778f60b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9f7776d00910141056t4fcde4fbu6d8565a39aee13eb@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Robyn Bergeron wrote: > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 6:20 AM, Joerg Simon > wrote: > > Hi Gregory, > > > > if a FOSS community starts to deal to much with itself it could be, that > focus > > gets lost and is not healthy. > > I think there is a risk to fail if one is trying to succesfully transport > > business measurement techniques one to one from business world into a > FOSS > > Project. Measurement is about control and business controlls will not > work > > here. But maybe we can adopt some of it! Please, this is not meant as a > > discouragement, it is a good idea to learn how things work in FOSS first > - i > > know you are very eager to start and that is the reason i try provide you > an > > answer for your questions - maybe we can achieve something great by > combine > > things from both world. > > I would agree that there is definitely not a 1:1 from FOSS to the > business world. I used to work for a Very Big Processor company, where > most things came out of a marketing plan, and I would be willing to be > a very large sum of money (or at least, a coffee for someone!) that if > employees came to work and started doing something that was not on the > plan, upper management would have had numerous seizures. And god > forbid if people who didn't even work there started showing up and > doing things. I'd also bet (now i'm up to two coffees!) that if Linus > had had a marketing team defining a list of project requirements, we > would all be typing our emails on a different type of machine right > now. > >>>There have been several articles on places such as CNET and the like which highlight the deficit of linux/open source looking at the marketing perspective. I believe that marketing is key to strategy and development in any organization, anywhere is the world. > > That is not to say that Marketing, specifically the strategic > marketing end of things, doesn't have a role in Fedora or Linux. FOSS > simply has a different way of going about things; users see gaps, or > room for improvements, and they come and fix it, and become > participants in the overall community. Many of these community > members are doing this on their own time >>> I know, I am one of them. > , not as part of their jobs; > if they wanted someone to dictate to them what they should be working > on, they would probably just go and work longer hours at their jobs. > > Strategic marketing, in my opinion, should be a guiding light for the > engineers. Imagine if a group of people got together and decided to > build a road, so they just do it (I'll just ignore the part about how > the government is totally going to come and slap them around for not > having permits and whatnot). These road engineers, who are busting > their butts doing an awesome job for the greater good, don't want > people nitpicking them to death on what they aren't doing; they might, > however, appreciate information like, "Oh hey, you guys are aware that > 6 miles up the road you haven't built yet is a huge chasm - you might > want to start thinking about how to build a bridge!" or "Hey guys...we > just talked to the people in the city, and it looks like you might > need an additional lane for all the traffic you're going to be > getting." And when the road is done, it never hurts to let them know > that - hey! - 95% of the community thinks that your road is freakin > awesome. > >>>Possibly? > > Basically, doing end-user research accomplishes a few things - it lets > engineering know what is going right, and what is not going so right, > and maybe what can be done to fix it. There are also tons of untapped > potential community members out there; if we present them with a list > of ways to participate, rather than expecting them to find a niche on > their own, we can get more participants. > >>>EXACTLY!!!! How will anyone new to the area be able to find your "house" without a map or directions? > > I'm pretty sure that was fairly incoherent. I'll be going to find > some caffeine now. :) > >>>Don't worry. You were pretty coherent :) > > -robyn > > > > > > > On Wednesday 14 October 2009 14:22:11 Gregory Zysk wrote: > >> One thing I would like to start with to help all of you form a marketing > >> mindset is to ask the question of "What happened in June of 2009 within > the > >> Fedora Project? > >> > >> As you can see: https://fedorahosted.org/fama/wiki/AmbassadorMetricsviews > >> that we have had a steady increase since measurement began in January of > >> 2006. That is until June of 2009. > > > > Just for notice - Fedora is far more than the Ambassadors Group which is > only > > a (large) sub-project > > > >> Once we can answer this question, we can begin to answer these > >> sub-questions: > >> 1) Who were these ambassadors? > > > > In the past the Ambassador Group was often used by new Contributors as an > > entry level Group - which is what the Ambassador Group is definitely not > - > > because you have not only to present Fedora as an OS - also the Project > itself > > and therefore it is imperative to know the project better than anybody > else. > > This is the reason why we have established a strong mentoring process and > have > > a new membership process. > > > > You can see the result, who they are where they are from ... > > for the last month's here > > https://fedorahosted.org/fama/report/6 > > > >> 2) What specific contributor groups were they apart of? > > > > this should be easy to get from FAS by writing a script - is there a > > volunteer around ;) ? > > > >> 3) Where did they go after they left the ambassador group? > > > > You will notice the incursion in Jun 09 this was a big clean up > > of inactive accounts > > http://kitall.blogspot.com/2009_07_01_archive.html > > > > > > Hope this helps to clarify a bit > > > > cu Joerg > > > > -- > > Joerg (kital) Simon > > jsimon at fedoraproject.org > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon > > http://kitall.blogspot.com > > Key Fingerprint: > > 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688 > > > > -- > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Gregory Zysk https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gmzysk Fingerprint: 4643 E1AE 1AAD 85D4 6276 7C42 3591 A189 B8BF 04D6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pchestek at redhat.com Wed Oct 14 20:01:58 2009 From: pchestek at redhat.com (Pamela Chestek) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:01:58 -0400 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4ACDF716.9040802@redhat.com> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> <4ACCC39C.30708@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCE7A8.7060104@redhat.com> <4ACD3E95.7070706@fedoraproject.org> <4ACDF716.9040802@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AD62E36.1080909@redhat.com> Colby Hoke wrote on 10/08/2009 10:28 AM: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> On 10/08/2009 12:40 AM, Colby Hoke wrote:. >> >>> For example, there was a remix of the Truth Happens video that was put >>> in with some very questionable material. It was offensive. Due to the >>> copyright (back then we used copyright), we were able to go after that >>> video and, I assume, have it taken it down. >>> >> >> If you allow people to create remixes, they will create some bad remixes >> but so what? > I agree. >> I know of exactly one example of such a thing tnat that is >> one you are citing here, in how many years of Red Hat putting out videos >> like this? > Absolutely. >> The example also shows that people who actually go about >> creating such bad remixes don't have a damn about copyright or >> licensing. > Yep. >> They just will do it and I am pretty sure I can find a copy >> of that video regardless of what Red Hat does at this point. >> >> > I've no doubt you can. >> Look at this this way: Red Hat releases tens of thousands of lines of >> code and content (such as documentation or even fonts) under various >> free and open source licenses. It is possible and even likely that >> someone will add a bad patch to what Red Hat has released or even fork >> it on occasions. It doesn't negate the benefits at all. >> >> Rahul >> > Well this can go on all day long. You're preaching to the choir. > > As I've said, time and time again, I agree. I absolutely agree. I've > been talking to our legal department and we'll have something figured > out very soon regarding this. All I'm trying to say is: this is how it > is right now. We've made good progress and I'm just trying to explain > why it's this way. I'm not trying to defend it or attack it. > > That said, I hope we can figure out a way to do this! > Okay, we heard (thanks Rahul and Colby). Going forward, Red Hat videos will provide contact information for permissions, so people who want to use our videos in ways other than what the current CC licensing allows will know who to ask. For now, if you're interested in doing translations of Paul's stunning Stanislavskian performance illustrating the development path of software (or using it in some other way - the devil is whispering on my shoulder), write to messer at redhat.com. Pam Chestek Sr. IP Attorney x44473 "They sure keep me on my toes." From stickster at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 12:32:14 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 08:32:14 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-legal-list] Re: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4AD62E36.1080909@redhat.com> References: <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> <4ACCC39C.30708@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCE7A8.7060104@redhat.com> <4ACD3E95.7070706@fedoraproject.org> <4ACDF716.9040802@redhat.com> <4AD62E36.1080909@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20091015123214.GE3348@victoria.internal.frields.org> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 04:01:58PM -0400, Pamela Chestek wrote: > Okay, we heard (thanks Rahul and Colby). Going forward, Red Hat > videos will provide contact information for permissions, so people > who want to use our videos in ways other than what the current CC > licensing allows will know who to ask. For now, if you're > interested in doing translations of Paul's stunning Stanislavskian > performance illustrating the development path of software (or using > it in some other way - the devil is whispering on my shoulder), > write to messer at redhat.com. Just to be fair to Constantine Seregeivich, my acting is more influenced by his younger brother Drugo. Drugo's fortunately undocumented and largely unknown school of "residual drunkenness" never really caught on in the shadow of Constantine's "spiritual realism," except maybe in the case of Steven Seagal, or possibly Gary Busey. If only I hadn't happened upon that dog-eared copy of "Acting: If I Can (Hic!) Do It, So Can You" that day in a dusty Greenwich Village bookstore.... The world rues the day. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From gz.int.project at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 13:49:18 2009 From: gz.int.project at gmail.com (Gregory Zysk) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:49:18 +0200 Subject: Where to start? Message-ID: <9f7776d00910150649v36fdb34es4c982db0d45c5a59@mail.gmail.com> Dear Marketing, I have pondered over the question of; 'where to start?' After receiving the comments on this list which were supplemented by emails supporting the fact that there is not much coordination in the area of marketing, but more so the unwillingness to see the relevance of it, it makes this a difficult mission. That combined with the questions I have asked through email to the group leader who never replies to those mails makes this impossible. There has been talk of people not wanting to look inside the organization, but just want to focus on the outside. Like a doctor who takes care of the sick but never takes care of themselves. He may help a lot of people, but when he neglects his own health, he eventually ends up in a position where he can no longer help others. I can really say that as a newbie to the FOSS community and someone who is not a "techie" or paid to do this but looks at it as one of this social responsibilities, I am really not too impressed. There is widespread disagreement, as their is in many other FOSS communities also which leads me to believe that this is a "members club" only. Those members being the technically inclined. These technical people have jobs that either support you to work on Fedora with their time and money or you are actually paid by Fedora/Redhat.Those of "us" who do not fall under those categories are putting all of our time with no supplemental payment. Therefore, I suggest you keep this a technical distro only, that way everyone entering the community as well as it's users will have a foundation to start from. Wider user bases than that need not apply. After many hours contemplating it and some sleepless nights, I have decided where to start: Removing myself from this group! -- Gregory Zysk https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gmzysk Fingerprint: 4643 E1AE 1AAD 85D4 6276 7C42 3591 A189 B8BF 04D6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From herson at azneita.org Thu Oct 15 14:00:57 2009 From: herson at azneita.org (Heherson Pagcaliwagan) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:00:57 +0800 Subject: Where to start? In-Reply-To: <9f7776d00910150649v36fdb34es4c982db0d45c5a59@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7776d00910150649v36fdb34es4c982db0d45c5a59@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AD72B19.7000309@azneita.org> On 10/15/2009 09:49 PM, Gregory Zysk wrote: > Dear Marketing, > > I have pondered over the question of; 'where to start?' > > After receiving the comments on this list which were supplemented by emails > supporting the fact that there is not much coordination in the area of > marketing, but more so the unwillingness to see the relevance of it, it > makes this a difficult mission. That combined with the questions I have > asked through email to the group leader who never replies to those mails > makes this impossible. > > There has been talk of people not wanting to look inside the organization, > but just want to focus on the outside. Like a doctor who takes care of the > sick but never takes care of themselves. He may help a lot of people, but > when he neglects his own health, he eventually ends up in a position where > he can no longer help others. > > I can really say that as a newbie to the FOSS community and someone who is > not a "techie" or paid to do this but looks at it as one of this social > responsibilities, I am really not too impressed. There is widespread > disagreement, as their is in many other FOSS communities also which leads me > to believe that this is a "members club" only. Those members being the > technically inclined. These technical people have jobs that either support > you to work on Fedora with their time and money or you are actually paid by > Fedora/Redhat.Those of "us" who do not fall under those categories are > putting all of our time with no supplemental payment. > > Therefore, I suggest you keep this a technical distro only, that way > everyone entering the community as well as it's users will have a foundation > to start from. Wider user bases than that need not apply. > > After many hours contemplating it and some sleepless nights, I have decided > where to start: Removing myself from this group! Every time someone leaves the group (or the project) is a sad day for me. I have nothing but thanks for the time and energy you put in and I hope you find something else that will suit you better. I pray that you continue contributing to FOSS if not to Fedora. -- Heherson Pagcaliwagan http://project.azneita.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 260 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 14:11:20 2009 From: thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com (susmit shannigrahi) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:41:20 +0530 Subject: Where to start? In-Reply-To: <9f7776d00910150649v36fdb34es4c982db0d45c5a59@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7776d00910150649v36fdb34es4c982db0d45c5a59@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, It is sad that you are leaving. The actual way here is to not to be too trigger happy, to take time and watch, and if needed, make a cautious move towards changing things. "I know this works, so lets apply this here" does not often work out. Also, there are equal shares of fame and flame here, one must bear with both. Wish you all the best. -- Regards, Susmit. ============================================= ssh 0x86DD170A http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit ============================================= Sent from Calcutta, WB, India From inode0 at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 14:23:55 2009 From: inode0 at gmail.com (inode0) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:23:55 -0500 Subject: Where to start? In-Reply-To: <9f7776d00910150649v36fdb34es4c982db0d45c5a59@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7776d00910150649v36fdb34es4c982db0d45c5a59@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Gregory Zysk wrote: > Dear Marketing, > > I have pondered over the question of; 'where to start?' > > After receiving the comments on this list which were supplemented by emails > supporting the fact that there is not much coordination in the area of > marketing, but more so the unwillingness to see the relevance of it, it > makes this a difficult mission. That combined with the questions I have > asked through email to the group leader who never replies to those mails > makes this impossible. Sometimes patience is needed, people are busy and we all need to wait for replies to email at times. You have identified some issues you think impair our marketing effort and I wish you could keep your resolve and continue to make your case. > There has been talk of people not wanting to look inside the organization, > but just want to focus on the outside. Like a doctor who takes care of the > sick but never takes care of themselves. He may help a lot of people, but > when he neglects his own health, he eventually ends up in a position where > he can no longer help others. I see your point on this. The big drop in ambassadors is the result of an unusual event because we didn't routinely purge the group. I don't know how to smooth the statistics to make that more clear than a footnote. Future purges will show losses that indicate something more meaningful to think about as they will show drops over a shorter period of time and won't need to treated as a special case. > I can really say that as a newbie to the FOSS community and someone who is > not a "techie" or paid to do this but looks at it as one of this social > responsibilities, I am really not too impressed. There is widespread > disagreement, as their is in many other FOSS communities also which leads me > to believe that this is a "members club" only. Those members being the > technically inclined. These technical people have jobs that either support > you to work on Fedora with their time and money or you are actually paid by > Fedora/Redhat.Those of "us" who do not fall under those categories are > putting all of our time with no supplemental payment. Even for techies joining the FOSS community can be a bit jarring at the beginning. Everyone needs a period to get acclimated to the ways things work. I think it is fair to say the vast majority of contributors to Fedora are not paid to contribute. We contribute for a wide variety of reasons. > Therefore, I suggest you keep this a technical distro only, that way > everyone entering the community as well as it's users will have a foundation > to start from. Wider user bases than that need not apply. This is not what anyone wants. Everyone is welcome, but to get changes adopted in a community that is built on community action does require that you actually join and participate in the community to build up some trust. > After many hours contemplating it and some sleepless nights, I have decided > where to start: Removing myself from this group! I would encourage you to not make this decision so quickly. How many marketing meetings have you attended? I'm afraid with a very small glimpse into the project you are drawing some very broad generalizations about it. John From sdaly.be at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 15:25:50 2009 From: sdaly.be at gmail.com (Sean DALY) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:25:50 +0200 Subject: Where to start? In-Reply-To: <9f7776d00910150649v36fdb34es4c982db0d45c5a59@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7776d00910150649v36fdb34es4c982db0d45c5a59@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <378b2b050910150825u2ebf7a2ka321c2e00afbcac9@mail.gmail.com> Gregory, If I may permit myself a comment as an outsider. I am the marketing coordinator over at Sugar Labs, a FLOSS project which works closely with Fedora and other distros; I like to keep an eye on what other FLOSS projects are doing about marketing. In my day job, I work at a Fortune 500 company in the top 30 of Ad Age's Global Marketers list by advertising spend. I can guarantee you doing marketing for any engineer-heavy FLOSS structure is a lot of work, and not just getting the work done, but convincing engineers of its usefulness. Most engineers I know have a healthy dislike for marketing as mere "spin" or "prettifying" and have horror stories to tell of proprietary software companies asking engineers to rewrite the laws of physics to make a deadline thought up by "clueless marketers". Even the category is conceptually displaced: most engineers think "marketing" means reaching other engineers, not presenting products or services to targets with a strategy. The do-it-yourself ethos of FLOSS communities means everyone feels competent enough to write press release copy, with catastrophic results; some PR never goes any further than an obscure blog post. Cultivating journalists is unheard-of. Marketing folk are often not informed what is going on, usually because engineers consider their input superfluous. When in doubt, FLOSS engineers cite examples from other FLOSS projects, most of whom have awful marketing as well. Engineers think in terms of "releases", and getting them to think of "launches" instead is an uphill climb. Under these conditions, it's no surprise that all GNU/Linux distros together amount to under 2% market share on the desktop. However, engineers like results, and know them when they see them. Most of them will set aside prejudices and listen to reasoned arguments; recognition of expertise in FLOSS projects is earned, not announced. And a great many developers understand that FLOSS marketing is underdeveloped, but are frustrated because they are not sure how to do better, and are eager to learn from anyone not talking jargon. Marketers-communicators can help, but it requires patience and fortitude inside the project. Marketing methods, concepts, tactics, branding, advertising, are foreign to engineers. So we have an extra challenge: explaining, and explaining again, and then again, how we come up with a marketing plan, based on knowledge of our targets (from studies, or surveys, or focus groups, or whatever we have), ideas on how to reach targets, what the messages are, what metrics to use to measure results, and of course the limited resources available. At Sugar Labs, from time to time I write messages like this one http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/marketing/2009-March/000681.html as mini-tutorials about the world marketers move in, so mysterious to most engineers. Many colleagues pass by such messages as pie-in-the-sky fluff, but there will always be some who are very sharp and willing to learn, and sometimes the colleagues will sit up and take notice that those whom they respect are listening, and they will listen too. Of course it's hard to contribute time and money and for others to disrespect your work. Let me give you an example. When I arrived at Sugar Labs at the beginning of this year, I asked about branded USB sticks. There were none, just a CG image (which provided free advertising to Belkin, since the image was spidered by Google). The marketing budget ($0) meant no sticks. Yet I knew beauty shots of logo'd sticks were absolutely necessary from a branding standpoint. Seed money is often an issue in FLOSS projects. So I fronted a thousand USD to Sugar Labs to get a hundred sticks done in several colors. The sticks themselves were gone in a "flash" to qualified prospects at education shows, but the few we set aside wound up in our current beauty shot (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Sugar-on-a-Stick-Strawberry-cs.jpg) done by a talented photographer friend and which has been widely published, for example by the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8117064.stm). The result? We have been plumb out of sticks for months, but the branding initiative has brought us closer to finding funders who will help us get quite a lot more sticks done. Naturally, the last time a developer suggested that marketers were useless, I had to count to ten to cool off. But cool off I did... for the good of the project. May I suggest you work a little more with the Fedora marketing team. Give them a chance, let them see what positive impact you can have, not by telling them what they may be doing wrong, but by suggesting how they can work better. Bring some results, your words will carry more weight as time goes on. Sean Sugar Labs Marketing Coordinator On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Gregory Zysk wrote: > Dear Marketing, > > I have pondered over the question of; 'where to start?' > > After receiving the comments on this list which were supplemented by emails > supporting the fact that there is not much coordination in the area of > marketing, but more so the unwillingness to see the relevance of it, it > makes this a difficult mission. That combined with the questions I have > asked through email to the group leader who never replies to those mails > makes this impossible. > > There has been talk of people not wanting to look inside the organization, > but just want to focus on the outside. Like a doctor who takes care of the > sick but never takes care of themselves. He may help a lot of people, but > when he neglects his own health, he eventually ends up in a position where > he can no longer help others. > > I can really say that as a newbie to the FOSS community and someone who is > not a "techie" or paid to do this but looks at it as one of this social > responsibilities, I am really not too impressed. There is widespread > disagreement, as their is in many other FOSS communities also which leads me > to believe that this is a "members club" only. Those members being the > technically inclined. These technical people have jobs that either support > you to work on Fedora with their time and money or you are actually paid by > Fedora/Redhat.Those of "us" who do not fall under those categories are > putting all of our time with no supplemental payment. > > Therefore, I suggest you keep this a technical distro only, that way > everyone entering the community as well as it's users will have a foundation > to start from. Wider user bases than that need not apply. > > After many hours contemplating it and some sleepless nights, I have decided > where to start: Removing myself from this group! > > > > -- > Gregory Zysk > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gmzysk > > Fingerprint: 4643 E1AE 1AAD 85D4 6276 > 7C42 3591 A189 B8BF 04D6 > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From choke at redhat.com Thu Oct 15 17:05:18 2009 From: choke at redhat.com (Colby Hoke) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 13:05:18 -0400 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4AD62E36.1080909@redhat.com> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> <4ACCC39C.30708@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCE7A8.7060104@redhat.com> <4ACD3E95.7070706@fedoraproject.org> <4ACDF716.9040802@redhat.com> <4AD62E36.1080909@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AD7564E.60200@redhat.com> Pamela Chestek wrote: > Colby Hoke wrote on 10/08/2009 10:28 AM: >> Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>> On 10/08/2009 12:40 AM, Colby Hoke wrote:. >>> >>>> For example, there was a remix of the Truth Happens video that was put >>>> in with some very questionable material. It was offensive. Due to the >>>> copyright (back then we used copyright), we were able to go after that >>>> video and, I assume, have it taken it down. >>>> >>> >>> If you allow people to create remixes, they will create some bad >>> remixes >>> but so what? >> I agree. >>> I know of exactly one example of such a thing tnat that is >>> one you are citing here, in how many years of Red Hat putting out >>> videos >>> like this? >> Absolutely. >>> The example also shows that people who actually go about >>> creating such bad remixes don't have a damn about copyright or >>> licensing. >> Yep. >>> They just will do it and I am pretty sure I can find a copy >>> of that video regardless of what Red Hat does at this point. >>> >>> >> I've no doubt you can. >>> Look at this this way: Red Hat releases tens of thousands of lines of >>> code and content (such as documentation or even fonts) under various >>> free and open source licenses. It is possible and even likely that >>> someone will add a bad patch to what Red Hat has released or even fork >>> it on occasions. It doesn't negate the benefits at all. >>> >>> Rahul >>> >> Well this can go on all day long. You're preaching to the choir. >> >> As I've said, time and time again, I agree. I absolutely agree. I've >> been talking to our legal department and we'll have something figured >> out very soon regarding this. All I'm trying to say is: this is how >> it is right now. We've made good progress and I'm just trying to >> explain why it's this way. I'm not trying to defend it or attack it. >> >> That said, I hope we can figure out a way to do this! >> > Okay, we heard (thanks Rahul and Colby). Going forward, Red Hat > videos will provide contact information for permissions, so people who > want to use our videos in ways other than what the current CC > licensing allows will know who to ask. For now, if you're interested > in doing translations of Paul's stunning Stanislavskian performance > illustrating the development path of software (or using it in some > other way - the devil is whispering on my shoulder), write to > messer at redhat.com. > > Pam Chestek > Sr. IP Attorney > x44473 > "They sure keep me on my toes." Hey everybody, I'd love to hear some feedback on this and we'll make announcements through Paul for videos relating to Fedora where we're granting extra rights. (Or you'll be able to look at the end of the video and know.) We're doing it as a test coming up and, hopefully, it will expand depending on interest and approval. So, we're going to be setting up an email address where these requests can go. Mike Esser or I will make the announcement when that's up. I know Mike's taking a pounding right now in email from this, so I ask that you be kind in your emailing and feel free to CC me on them as well. I'm here to help Mike out on the load and am also here to answer any questions. So, sorry about all the email, Mike! Feel free to direct comments to me directly, if you like. Just trying to make my project manager's life a little easier! Thanks everyone for the interest and I hope you see this as a step in the right direction- I know I certainly do! Also, I want to thank Pam for all her work in figuring out how we can do this. Thanks everyone! -- Colby A. Hoke [ Producer ] Brand Communications + Design Raleigh, NC ----------------------------- choke at redhat.com P: 919.621.8802 From pbrobinson at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 17:51:09 2009 From: pbrobinson at gmail.com (Peter Robinson) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:51:09 +0100 Subject: Fedora 12 Talking Points Message-ID: <5256d0b0910151051k78013d7doe715e5f90262f917@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, Firstly sorry for screwing up the threading, I've not prev been on fedora-marketing list but someone pointed me to the thread but as the Moblin Maintainer I figured it was worth jumping in! >>> Is Moblin worth adding to it? >> >> It's not something that will be usable by most people in this release - >> not many applications on it yet. > ># yum install @moblin-desktop gives you a fairly complete desktop. I did >a quick comparison with what is available in moblin.org and didn't find >noticeable gaps. It is basically complete as per Moblin upstream. The main missing feature is the Moblin Browser and I'm planning to speak to the Fedora Mozilla guys @ FUDCon to see what I need to do to get support for this. And there's nothing to stop people using Firefox or Epiphany in the mean time, I use both without issues. Most of the other 'apps' are actually just standard gnome apps or I have them already in rawhide. There's one or two minor ones missing but nothing I'm overly bothered about. Peter From pbrobinson at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 17:57:07 2009 From: pbrobinson at gmail.com (Peter Robinson) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:57:07 +0100 Subject: Fedora 12 Talking Points Message-ID: <5256d0b0910151057h57c228c1j3ba9cc04cb27af8@mail.gmail.com> >> Is Moblin worth adding to it? > >I would say yes I did a 'spin' and installed it on my ASUS EEE it run >great still has some needed things but runs great and have had 2 other >people intrested enough in wanting to know how >to try it on there laptops.. > >might want it to be a anounce for in f12 for testing out the desktop; >and comments wish list etc.. but a 'spin' for f13 .. I missed the cut off for an official spin for F-12 because I wasn't aware the cut off was the alpha release. So for F-12 I'm planning a remix or what ever its called LiveCD. I should have a beta one up very shortly after the official F-12 beta. I've been testing the first couple of cuts on various hardware over the last week or so. Peter From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Oct 16 06:43:45 2009 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:43:45 +0300 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4AD7564E.60200@redhat.com> References: <4ACBB454.4060106@redhat.com> <20091006234732.GO15104@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC3D10.3070109@fedoraproject.org> <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> <4ACCC39C.30708@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCE7A8.7060104@redhat.com> <4ACD3E95.7070706@fedoraproject.org> <4ACDF716.9040802@redhat.com> <4AD62E36.1080909@redhat.com> <4AD7564E.60200@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AD81621.5070809@nicubunu.ro> On 10/15/2009 08:05 PM, Colby Hoke wrote: > Pamela Chestek wrote: >> Okay, we heard (thanks Rahul and Colby). Going forward, Red Hat videos >> will provide contact information for permissions, so people who want >> to use our videos in ways other than what the current CC licensing >> allows will know who to ask. For now, if you're interested in doing >> translations of Paul's stunning Stanislavskian performance >> illustrating the development path of software (or using it in some >> other way - the devil is whispering on my shoulder), write to >> messer at redhat.com. > > Hey everybody, I'd love to hear some feedback on this and we'll make > announcements through Paul for videos relating to Fedora where we're > granting extra rights. (Or you'll be able to look at the end of the > video and know.) All the benefit of CC licenses over the traditional model was that the user does not need to ask the author for permission. Having a restrictive CC license and asking to user to send emails to require a permissive one seems a bit like returning to step one. Why bother with NC-ND? -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/ From stickster at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 12:40:05 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:40:05 -0400 Subject: New blog post In-Reply-To: <4AD81621.5070809@nicubunu.ro> References: <20091007131126.GH28168@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4ACC95C3.1090303@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCC05A.5060109@redhat.com> <4ACCC39C.30708@fedoraproject.org> <4ACCE7A8.7060104@redhat.com> <4ACD3E95.7070706@fedoraproject.org> <4ACDF716.9040802@redhat.com> <4AD62E36.1080909@redhat.com> <4AD7564E.60200@redhat.com> <4AD81621.5070809@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <20091016124005.GE23367@victoria.internal.frields.org> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 09:43:45AM +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote: > On 10/15/2009 08:05 PM, Colby Hoke wrote: > >Pamela Chestek wrote: > >>Okay, we heard (thanks Rahul and Colby). Going forward, Red Hat videos > >>will provide contact information for permissions, so people who want > >>to use our videos in ways other than what the current CC licensing > >>allows will know who to ask. For now, if you're interested in doing > >>translations of Paul's stunning Stanislavskian performance > >>illustrating the development path of software (or using it in some > >>other way - the devil is whispering on my shoulder), write to > >>messer at redhat.com. > > > >Hey everybody, I'd love to hear some feedback on this and we'll make > >announcements through Paul for videos relating to Fedora where we're > >granting extra rights. (Or you'll be able to look at the end of the > >video and know.) > > All the benefit of CC licenses over the traditional model was that > the user does not need to ask the author for permission. > Having a restrictive CC license and asking to user to send emails to > require a permissive one seems a bit like returning to step one. Why > bother with NC-ND? Nicu, While I think you're partly correct in that this change isn't quite what some people were asking for, I also think it's a step forward. The change has essentially been: "Can we remix this non-commercially?" "No." "What about now?" "Maybe, and here's the person to ask about that." Saying this is a step backward because you now have to ask a question obfuscates the point a bit. :-) Not having to ask would be helpful, but not having the *opportunity* to ask is definitely the step back. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 19 06:03:24 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:33:24 +0530 Subject: Planning to present in or attend FOSS.IN 2009 in Bangalore, India? Message-ID: <4ADC012C.6040705@fedoraproject.org> Hi The call for proposals in out. The important dates are: --- Oct-2009 | Call for Participation and start of submissions 26-Oct-2009 | End of submissions proposals 31-Oct-2009 | List of accepted submissions published 15-Nov-2009 | Due date for final slides & talk materials 01-Dec-2009 | Conference begins --- As you can see, you only got a very short period for submitting a proposal for a talk/workshop/workout. We have a Fedora Project day proposed to the organizers. Details at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Foss_in_2009 We have a limited budget to sponsor participants. If you are planning to present or attend the event edit the wiki (with your Fedora account) and add in more details. Go to http://foss.in and register as a speaker following the directions in the website. If you have any questions, let me know. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 19 11:26:16 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul Frields) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 07:26:16 -0400 Subject: Interviews and podcasts, update Message-ID: We have several features slated for interview/podcast treatments: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F12_in-depth_features I finished the editing of my podcast this past weekend. We are now at 4 weeks to release, so it would be good to see progress on the other ones as well. Can I help by getting a developer in touch with one or both of our other assignees? Paul From robyn.bergeron at gmail.com Mon Oct 19 14:54:20 2009 From: robyn.bergeron at gmail.com (Robyn Bergeron) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 07:54:20 -0700 Subject: Interviews and podcasts, update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5d4d90c90910190754q22ad1a4bsd6f212fe25ce9e3b@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Paul Frields wrote: > We have several features slated for interview/podcast treatments: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F12_in-depth_features > > I finished the editing of my podcast this past weekend. ?We are now at > 4 weeks to release, so it would be good to see progress on the other > ones as well. ?Can I help by getting a developer in touch with one or > both of our other assignees? If you could ping Matthias Clasen for me, that would be awesome - I may be in his spam bucket. -robyn > > Paul > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From mel at redhat.com Mon Oct 19 21:39:52 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:39:52 -0400 Subject: Interview request: F12 Virtualization feature profiles Message-ID: <4ADCDCA8.1090401@redhat.com> Greetings, o virt devs! You're getting this email because you're listed as one of the owners for a virt-related feature we'd like to spotlight in Fedora 12. We're working on in-depth feature profiles for the F12 release (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F12_in-depth_features), and would love to interview you about the features you've been working on. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virtualization_improvements_in_Fedora_12 Interviews usually take about 20-30 minutes, though I'm certainly happy to listen to you talk about your feature as long as you want. ;) Pop into #fedora-mktg on Freenode and ping me (mchua) and we can have the interview right then and there; I'm almost always around (including during weird/late/early hours). If you want to set up a specific time to talk in advance, just email me and let me know. If we get multiple virt devs in at the same time for a panel-style conversation, that's fantastic! Aside from popping into IRC for 30 minutes and (optionally) sending a pic or two of yourself you'd like to post up for the article, that should be it - I'll do the editing and the screenshot walkthrough and let you know when drafts (and then the final article) go up. We're hoping to go live early next week, so find me on IRC for 30 min anytime before this Friday noon EST and we'll be all set. Thanks - looking forward to the interviews! --Mel (Ccing the Marketing list for transparency/suggestions for improvement; this is my first feature profile. I'm planning on turning this into a HOWTO similar to Paul's HOWTO do a podcast interview after this release cycle is over.) From mel at redhat.com Tue Oct 20 00:01:10 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:01:10 -0700 Subject: Fedora Marketing weekly meeting, 20:00UTC #fedora-meeting Message-ID: Details and agenda at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings. See you folks there! --Mel From kschiltz at redhat.com Tue Oct 20 14:28:35 2009 From: kschiltz at redhat.com (Kara Schiltz) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:28:35 -0400 Subject: F12 Beta Blog Message-ID: <4ADDC913.1040801@redhat.com> Hello all, We've posted a blog announcing the Fedora 12 Beta on Red Hat News. Here's the link: http://press.redhat.com/2009/10/20/constantine-gets-ready-to-unite-again-fedora-12-beta-now-available/. Thanks, Kara From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 14:25:46 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:25:46 -0400 Subject: F12 Beta stuff Message-ID: <20091020142546.GJ933@victoria.internal.frields.org> Official announcement: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2009-October/msg00006.html My blog entry: http://marilyn.frields.org:8080/~paul/wordpress/?p=2808 Red Hat press blog: http://press.redhat.com/2009/10/20/constantine-gets-ready-to-unite-again-fedora-12-beta-now-available/ Please spread the news and of course, TRY IT! (Remember to report any remaining issues in Bugzilla, too.) :-) -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From kschiltz at redhat.com Tue Oct 20 15:47:59 2009 From: kschiltz at redhat.com (Kara Schiltz) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:47:59 -0400 Subject: Red Hat's Fedora 12 'Constantine' Targets Netbooks Message-ID: <4ADDDBAF.7080801@redhat.com> InternetNews.com 10.20.09 Red Hat's Fedora 12 'Constantine' Targets Netbooks By Sean Michael Kerner The first Fedora 12 beta is now available and at first glance it sure looks to me like it's jammed pack full of interesting and innovative new features. Full post: http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/10/red-hat-fedora-12-constantine.html From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Oct 20 17:09:20 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:09:20 -0700 Subject: Upcoming Schedule Message-ID: <4ADDEEC0.90209@redhat.com> Start End Name Tue 20-Oct Tue 20-Oct Beta Release Public Availability Tue 20-Oct Tue 20-Oct Start One-page Release Notes: Docs & Marketing Tue 20-Oct Tue 27-Oct Create one page Release Notes with Marketing Wed 28-Oct Wed 04-Nov Update and freeze the screenshots page Wed 28-Oct Wed 04-Nov Update Fedora tour page From kschiltz at redhat.com Tue Oct 20 18:29:59 2009 From: kschiltz at redhat.com (Kara Schiltz) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:29:59 -0400 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Released Message-ID: <4ADE01A7.3040106@redhat.com> The H http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Fedora-12-beta-released-834710.html From kschiltz at redhat.com Tue Oct 20 20:39:04 2009 From: kschiltz at redhat.com (Kara Schiltz) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:39:04 -0400 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Code is Go Message-ID: <4ADE1FE8.106@redhat.com> The Register http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/10/20/redhat_fedora_12/ From mel at redhat.com Tue Oct 20 21:04:03 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:04:03 -0400 Subject: Meeting minutes 2009-10-20 Message-ID: <4ADE25C3.4080704@redhat.com> Minutes at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings#2009. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 20 21:08:29 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:38:29 +0530 Subject: Meeting minutes 2009-10-20 In-Reply-To: <4ADE25C3.4080704@redhat.com> References: <4ADE25C3.4080704@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4ADE26CD.6090102@fedoraproject.org> On 10/21/2009 02:34 AM, Mel Chua wrote: > Minutes at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings#2009. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight#Schedule seems outdated. Can you update it to reflect the current schedule? Rahul From mel at redhat.com Wed Oct 21 05:06:00 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:06:00 -0400 Subject: Meeting minutes 2009-10-20 In-Reply-To: <4ADE26CD.6090102@fedoraproject.org> References: <4ADE25C3.4080704@redhat.com> <4ADE26CD.6090102@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4ADE96B8.6030603@redhat.com> On 10/20/2009 05:08 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 10/21/2009 02:34 AM, Mel Chua wrote: >> Minutes at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings#2009. > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight#Schedule seems outdated. > Can you update it to reflect the current schedule? Thanks for pointing that out, Rahul - you're right, it's out-of-date. The short version is that we need to work out the last month of the overall F12 Marketing schedule, putting in detailed dates and times for work sprints on our remaining F12 release deliverables before figuring out how the remaining FI work will fit around that. So I've updated the page to this for the moment in an attempt to accurately reflect the situation (and ask for help settling out and driving the remainder of the FI work that needs to be done for us to hit production). https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight#Schedule "This schedule is outdated - we're planning out the F12 release deliverables, and then we'll see how the remainder of the FI deployment work will fit around it. If you'd like to accelerate the FI schedule, feel free to take a look at the open FI tickets and lay out dates to complete the work." Right now, I'm simultaneously wrangling both the overall Marketing schedule and the FI schedule using the same resources - which isn't ideal. A better, less bottleneck-prone setup would be to have each deliverable sprint (including FI deliverable sprints) be driven independently, since 7 people each driving a 90-minute sprint is much more manageable; this way, if someone wants to pick up on FI work and drive it faster, they can. So that's what we're going to try to do, starting with a one-page release notes sprint somewhere between 9am-2pm PST (rbergeron and I will holler to the mailing list and log the channel when we find each other and start). If there's an FI ticket-clearing sprint you'd like to schedule, pick a couple tickets, pick a time, and shout out to the list when you start - remember to #startmeeting and #endmeeting so that the sprint gets logged in channel, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings#Procedure_for_Minutes_and_Logging. The launch date currently depends on how fast these sprints move forward. The first sprint that's needed for FI is the install instructions, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_set_up_a_Zikula_sandbox - they need to give step-by-step instructions for replicating the setup of http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula/ from scratch, so Infrastructure can puppetize them for staging and production. The current instructions are for generic zikula with a list of FI-specific packages at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_set_up_a_Zikula_sandbox#Fedora_Insight_specific_modules. Probably a longer response than you wanted, but hope this helps with some clarification. Thanks for the ping! --Mel From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 21 05:49:21 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:19:21 +0530 Subject: Fedora 12 polishes Linux for netbooks Message-ID: <4ADEA0E1.4010108@fedoraproject.org> Hi http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/10/20/fedora_12_beta_1_review/ "Fedora has never been shy when it comes to adopting new features. Fedora 11, for example, was one of the first major distros to adopt the ext4 files system. But with Fedora 12 the focus is much more on feature refinement and improving the stability and functionality of some features introduced in Fedora 11." Rahul From bob at fedoraunity.org Wed Oct 21 16:54:18 2009 From: bob at fedoraunity.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:54:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears In-Reply-To: <19786012.116791256143951871.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> Message-ID: <14645515.116811256144058772.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=5073 -- Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Robert 'Bob' Jensen || Fedora Unity Founder | | bob at fedoraunity.org || http://fedoraunity.org/ | | http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/ | | http://blogs.fedoraunity.org/bobjensen | | http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Bob-Jensen/1332998420 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 17:15:33 2009 From: thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com (susmit shannigrahi) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:45:33 +0530 Subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears In-Reply-To: <14645515.116811256144058772.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> References: <19786012.116791256143951871.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> <14645515.116811256144058772.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=5073 But isn't is obviously wrong? Should we comment on the blog that "we have nothing to do with windows 7 release and we are follow our own principles and work-flow irrespective of what m$ or other vendors does" ? -- Regards, Susmit. ============================================= ssh 0x86DD170A http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit ============================================= Sent from Calcutta, WB, India From bob at fedoraunity.org Wed Oct 21 17:23:47 2009 From: bob at fedoraunity.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:23:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <80431.116841256145827349.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> ----- "susmit shannigrahi" wrote: > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen > wrote: > > http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=5073 > > But isn't is obviously wrong? > > Should we comment on the blog that "we have nothing to do with windows > 7 release > and we are follow our own principles and work-flow irrespective of > what m$ or other vendors does" ? > Note my comment in the talkback. IMO implying that we are reacting to what they do proves the author's and perhaps the general public's ignorance. An example of something we might be missing, not sure. --Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Robert 'Bob' Jensen || Fedora Unity Founder | | bob at fedoraunity.org || http://fedoraunity.org/ | | http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/ | | http://blogs.fedoraunity.org/bobjensen | | http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Bob-Jensen/1332998420 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 17:28:44 2009 From: thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com (susmit shannigrahi) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:58:44 +0530 Subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears In-Reply-To: <80431.116841256145827349.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> References: <80431.116841256145827349.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> Message-ID: > Note my comment in the talkback. Oh, they were not expanded, so I missed it. Thanks. >IMO implying that we are reacting to what they do proves the author's and perhaps the general public's ignorance. An example of something we might be missing, not sure. I agree. -- Regards, Susmit. ============================================= ssh 0x86DD170A http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit ============================================= Sent from Calcutta, WB, India From mel at redhat.com Wed Oct 21 18:24:39 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:24:39 -0400 Subject: One-page release notes sprint in 37 minutes, #fedora-marketing Message-ID: <4ADF51E7.8080002@redhat.com> Robyn and I are going to be working on https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/82 when the new hour rolls over. Come join us! We'll log our adventures and post them to the list so we can generate a record of how this kind of deliverable gets made (yes, a HOWTO is in the works) since this is the first time one-page release notes are happening. --Mel From robyn.bergeron at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 18:41:53 2009 From: robyn.bergeron at gmail.com (Robyn Bergeron) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:41:53 -0700 Subject: One-page release notes sprint in 37 minutes, #fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <4ADF51E7.8080002@redhat.com> References: <4ADF51E7.8080002@redhat.com> Message-ID: <5d4d90c90910211141u2c87f103t44cf26bf114afe53@mail.gmail.com> I may be held up by 10 minutes. I got stuck at the train who apparently had to unload half a country's worth of goods. But I'm coming! On 10/21/09, Mel Chua wrote: > Robyn and I are going to be working on > https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/82 when the new hour > rolls over. Come join us! We'll log our adventures and post them to the > list so we can generate a record of how this kind of deliverable gets > made (yes, a HOWTO is in the works) since this is the first time > one-page release notes are happening. > > --Mel > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Sent from my mobile device From mel at redhat.com Wed Oct 21 21:23:08 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:23:08 -0400 Subject: One-page release notes sprint in 37 minutes, #fedora-marketing In-Reply-To: <4ADF51E7.8080002@redhat.com> References: <4ADF51E7.8080002@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4ADF7BBC.7000806@redhat.com> Sprint SUCCESS! https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/One_page_release_notes - please edit away. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_HOWTO_make_one_page_release_notes Left to do ------------- # Add the screenshots. (Screenshot deliverable sprint.) # Do the layout. (Design team) # Put in the final URLs. --Mel From g5_fosslover at yahoo.in Thu Oct 22 05:21:13 2009 From: g5_fosslover at yahoo.in (Gaurav Prabhu) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:51:13 +0530 (IST) Subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <970304.1914.qm@web95415.mail.in2.yahoo.com> I see no point first of all to replying to that comment. We guys know how we are progressing. As you mentioned, we have certain goals for each release, launch schedule is fixed which sometimes do get postponed but still its all planned nicely. Now if it coincides with the date of launch of Windows 7 then its pretty obvious that it wasn't any strategic move as to fail the launch of Windows 7. Those folks who favor Microsoft windows will anyway won't give a damn to the releases from open source. Same way I think Open Source shouldn't care much about the launch of Windows 7 as if we succeed in making a great OS, then eventually it will automatically garner the much needed attention. Regards, Gaurav Prabhu Gaurav Live Layman Linux --- On Wed, 21/10/09, susmit shannigrahi wrote: From: susmit shannigrahi Subject: Re: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears To: "For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base" Date: Wednesday, 21 October, 2009, 5:15 PM On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=5073 But isn't is obviously wrong? Should we comment on the blog that "we have nothing to do with windows 7 release and we are follow our own principles and work-flow irrespective of what m$ or other vendors does" ? -- Regards, Susmit. ============================================= ssh 0x86DD170A http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit ============================================= Sent from Calcutta, WB, India -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list Try the new Yahoo! India Homepage. Click here. http://in.yahoo.com/trynew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sdaly.be at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 14:21:02 2009 From: sdaly.be at gmail.com (Sean DALY) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:21:02 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears In-Reply-To: <970304.1914.qm@web95415.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <970304.1914.qm@web95415.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <378b2b050910220721w21f0dae9q3ca2a1e601d8428d@mail.gmail.com> I'd have to disagree with the statement that attention comes to any product "automatically", especially a product not widely known, no matter how good it is. Marketing is precisely the art and science of garnering attention. A great product by itself will establish a tiny niche, but a great product with sharp marketing will have every chance of becoming very widely known (there are other factors, such as the state of the competition, the age of the market, etc). A great product makes marketing easy; but I'm sure you'd agree that many mediocre (and some downright awful) products are successful merely by benefiting from great marketing (and lots of ad spend). Fedora project contributors certainly know the status of Fedora, but isn't it a goal to spread the word to others? For example, Windows users who don't "favor" Windows, but found it on the PC they bought, and are fed up with malware and crashes, are looking for alternatives? In that group are many who are switching to Apple (cf. market share growth and Q4 results, single biggest quarterly Mac sales in its history), but there are surely others interested in saving money and replacing Windows XP on existing PCs. I think all consumers are aware that an OS takes time to develop; there are millions of Windows users who are aware MS takes years for each version. The article implies that the mentioned FOSS project releases have been timed to the Windows 7 release, which is certainly not the case for Fedora, but as the angle of the story is that there are alternatives to Windows 7, inaccurate as it is it's not such bad publicity for Fedora in my view. Sean Sugar Labs Marketing Coordinator On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 7:21 AM, Gaurav Prabhu wrote: > I see no point first of all to replying to that comment. We guys know how > we are progressing. As you mentioned, we have certain goals for each > release, launch schedule is fixed which sometimes do get postponed but still > its all planned nicely. Now if it coincides with the date of launch of > Windows 7 then its pretty obvious that it wasn't any strategic move as to > fail the launch of Windows 7. Those folks who favor Microsoft windows will > anyway won't give a damn to the releases from open source. Same way I think > Open Source shouldn't care much about the launch of Windows 7 as if we > succeed in making a great OS, then eventually it will automatically garner > the much needed attention. > > Regards, > Gaurav Prabhu > > Gaurav Live > > Layman Linux > > ------------------------------ > > > > --- On *Wed, 21/10/09, susmit shannigrahi *wrote: > > > From: susmit shannigrahi > Subject: Re: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release > nears > To: "For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base" < > fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com> > Date: Wednesday, 21 October, 2009, 5:15 PM > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen > > wrote: > > http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=5073 > > But isn't is obviously wrong? > > Should we comment on the blog that "we have nothing to do with windows 7 > release > and we are follow our own principles and work-flow irrespective of > what m$ or other vendors does" ? > > > -- > Regards, > Susmit. > > ============================================= > ssh > 0x86DD170A > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit > ============================================= > Sent from Calcutta, WB, India > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > ------------------------------ > Connect more, do more and share more with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn more > . > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at fedoraunity.org Thu Oct 22 15:04:23 2009 From: bob at fedoraunity.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:04:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears In-Reply-To: <16755209.118061256223804199.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> Message-ID: <7954253.118081256223863412.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> ----- "Sean DALY" wrote: > I'd have to disagree with the statement that attention comes to any > product "automatically", especially a product not widely known, no > matter how good it is. > > Marketing is precisely the art and science of garnering attention. A > great product by itself will establish a tiny niche, but a great > product with sharp marketing will have every chance of becoming very > widely known (there are other factors, such as the state of the > competition, the age of the market, etc). A great product makes > marketing easy; but I'm sure you'd agree that many mediocre (and some > downright awful) products are successful merely by benefiting from > great marketing (and lots of ad spend). > > Fedora project contributors certainly know the status of Fedora, but > isn't it a goal to spread the word to others? For example, Windows > users who don't "favor" Windows, but found it on the PC they bought, > and are fed up with malware and crashes, are looking for alternatives? > In that group are many who are switching to Apple (cf. market share > growth and Q4 results, single biggest quarterly Mac sales in its > history), but there are surely others interested in saving money and > replacing Windows XP on existing PCs. > > I think all consumers are aware that an OS takes time to develop; > there are millions of Windows users who are aware MS takes years for > each version. The article implies that the mentioned FOSS project > releases have been timed to the Windows 7 release, which is certainly > not the case for Fedora, but as the angle of the story is that there > are alternatives to Windows 7, inaccurate as it is it's not such bad > publicity for Fedora in my view. > I feel we have an obligation to correct inaccuracies if we truly care about the Fedora product and/or Fedora Project. If we do not speak the truth the lies themselves become truths in the minds of many. I personally care about the Fedora product more so than gaining 'new consumers' from the Windows market. Retaining our current consumers/contributors is more important than courting new consumers for me. If they come they come willingly the best we can do is put the truth out there and let them decide. We are going to gain new consumers even if they are temporary, provided the correct information is published for them to even take a look. -- Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Robert 'Bob' Jensen || Fedora Unity Founder | | bob at fedoraunity.org || http://fedoraunity.org/ | | http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/ | | http://blogs.fedoraunity.org/bobjensen | | http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Bob-Jensen/1332998420 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sdaly.be at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 15:18:00 2009 From: sdaly.be at gmail.com (Sean DALY) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:18:00 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears In-Reply-To: <7954253.118081256223863412.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> References: <16755209.118061256223804199.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> <7954253.118081256223863412.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> Message-ID: <378b2b050910220818hb383911m470300de03a4eb37@mail.gmail.com> I agree with you. When I encounter cases like that for Sugar Labs, in addition to commenting (or encouraging other contributors to comment) I put the journalist or blogger on the PR mailing list; they are better informed next time. Sean On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > > ----- "Sean DALY" wrote: > >> I'd have to disagree with the statement that attention comes to any >> product "automatically", especially a product not widely known, no >> matter how good it is. >> >> Marketing is precisely the art and science of garnering attention. A >> great product by itself will establish a tiny niche, but a great >> product with sharp marketing will have every chance of becoming very >> widely known (there are other factors, such as the state of the >> competition, the age of the market, etc). A great product makes >> marketing easy; but I'm sure you'd agree that many mediocre (and some >> downright awful) products are successful merely by benefiting from >> great marketing (and lots of ad spend). >> >> Fedora project contributors certainly know the status of Fedora, but >> isn't it a goal to spread the word to others? For example, Windows >> users who don't "favor" Windows, but found it on the PC they bought, >> and are fed up with malware and crashes, are looking for alternatives? >> In that group are many who are switching to Apple (cf. market share >> growth and Q4 results, single biggest quarterly Mac sales in its >> history), but there are surely others interested in saving money and >> replacing Windows XP on existing PCs. >> >> I think all consumers are aware that an OS takes time to develop; >> there are millions of Windows users who are aware MS takes years for >> each version. The article implies that the mentioned FOSS project >> releases have been timed to the Windows 7 release, which is certainly >> not the case for Fedora, but as the angle of the story is that there >> are alternatives to Windows 7, inaccurate as it is it's not such bad >> publicity for Fedora in my view. >> > > I feel we have an obligation to correct inaccuracies if we truly care about the Fedora product and/or Fedora Project. If we do not speak the truth the lies themselves become truths in the minds of many. I personally care about the Fedora product more so than gaining 'new consumers' from the Windows market. Retaining our current consumers/contributors is more important than courting new consumers for me. If they come they come willingly the best we can do is put the truth out there and let them decide. We are going to gain new consumers even if they are temporary, provided the correct information is published for them to even take a look. > > -- Bob > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > | Robert 'Bob' Jensen || Fedora Unity Founder | > | bob at fedoraunity.org || http://fedoraunity.org/ | > | http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/ | > | http://blogs.fedoraunity.org/bobjensen | > | http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Bob-Jensen/1332998420 | > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From larry.cafiero at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 15:21:55 2009 From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:21:55 -0700 Subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears In-Reply-To: <7954253.118081256223863412.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> References: <16755209.118061256223804199.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> <7954253.118081256223863412.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> Message-ID: <7a0d56080910220821o473582a9h929e49943a025fdc@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > > I feel we have an obligation to correct inaccuracies if we truly care about > the Fedora product and/or Fedora Project. If we do not speak the truth the > lies themselves become truths in the minds of many. I personally care about > the Fedora product more so than gaining 'new consumers' from the Windows > market. Retaining our current consumers/contributors is more important than > courting new consumers for me. If they come they come willingly the best we > can do is put the truth out there and let them decide. We are going to gain > new consumers even if they are temporary, provided the correct information > is published for them to even take a look. Bob is right. We have an obligation to correct inaccuracies in the media. What's astounding about this is the article, from established ZDNet bloggers whose "beat" is Linux and Open Source, is completely inaccurate. It speaks to several issues, but primarily this: How do two established Net writers who cover Linux and Open Source NOT know the release cycles of major distros? What's more -- and it's a stretch, but still arguable -- what's to say Microsoft didn't plan its release of Windows 7 to blunt that of Ubuntu 9.10 (and Fedora 12 for that matter)? Providing accurate information is the media's job. Correcting them when they're wrong is ours. Larry Cafiero -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sdaly.be at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 16:25:48 2009 From: sdaly.be at gmail.com (Sean DALY) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:25:48 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears In-Reply-To: <7a0d56080910220821o473582a9h929e49943a025fdc@mail.gmail.com> References: <16755209.118061256223804199.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> <7954253.118081256223863412.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> <7a0d56080910220821o473582a9h929e49943a025fdc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <378b2b050910220925u29320786i8ff2f0bf2a18aed8@mail.gmail.com> Yes, I agree that it's a good idea to set the record straight. However, there is an ugly truth: the wider the coverage of anything, the more errors there are... responding to them turns into whack-a-mole. To combat that, what's necessary is to go beyond error-correction to influencing perceptions widely. When perceptions are positive enough, Fedora users will whack the moles themselves, and clueless commentators will educate themselves or lose credibility. A key way to influence perceptions is to cultivate journalists. Nobody likes to admit they made a mistake. Journalists get called clueless and worse every day of the week, like everyone they generally accept constructive criticism though. In this connection, Bob's comment was exemplary: he politely set the record straight. What I'm saying is, make changing perceptions part of the plan. Although the media usually wish to present accurate information, what they really want is accurate information which is also timely, interesting, and topical. This is where press releases can play a major role. Many journalists with 4 stories to file in the day will be happy to quickly adapt a well-written release and put it up. When that happens, you've made news, not reacted to it. Over time, awareness rises within influencers, and next thing you know, most of them will be able to write from memory that there are two Fedora releases per year for example. Or whatever branding message you wish to spread - that Fedora is high-quality, installs easily, etc. Journalists know that Windows 7 is make-or-break for Microsoft; just look how MS is taking risks they haven't before such as selling PCs for the first time ever and painting all their national websites green. The WinXP -> Win7 upgrade path is wipe and install... the same as most WinXP -> GNU/Linux installs. So journalists know that now is perhaps a better time than ever to talk about alternatives. When Constantine launch time comes, perhaps a talking point to consider beyond the great features is how upgrading to Fedora can be a better choice than upgrading to Windows 7. Sean On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Larry Cafiero wrote: > On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen > wrote: >> >> I feel we have an obligation to correct inaccuracies if we truly care >> about the Fedora product and/or Fedora Project. If we do not speak the truth >> the lies themselves become truths in the minds of many. I personally care >> about the Fedora product more so than gaining 'new consumers' from the >> Windows market. Retaining our current consumers/contributors is more >> important than courting new consumers for me. If they come they come >> willingly the best we can do is put the truth out there and let them decide. >> We are going to gain new consumers even if they are temporary, provided the >> correct information is published for them to even take a look. > > Bob is right. We have an obligation to correct inaccuracies in the media. > What's astounding about this is the article, from established ZDNet bloggers > whose "beat" is Linux and Open Source, is completely inaccurate. It speaks > to several issues, but primarily this: How do two established Net writers > who cover Linux and Open Source NOT know the release cycles of major > distros? What's more -- and it's a stretch, but still arguable -- what's to > say Microsoft didn't plan its release of Windows 7 to blunt that of Ubuntu > 9.10 (and Fedora 12 for that matter)? > > Providing accurate information is the media's job. Correcting them when > they're wrong is ours. > > Larry Cafiero > > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From larry.cafiero at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 00:27:25 2009 From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:27:25 -0700 Subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears In-Reply-To: <378b2b050910220925u29320786i8ff2f0bf2a18aed8@mail.gmail.com> References: <16755209.118061256223804199.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> <7954253.118081256223863412.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> <7a0d56080910220821o473582a9h929e49943a025fdc@mail.gmail.com> <378b2b050910220925u29320786i8ff2f0bf2a18aed8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7a0d56080910221727h14a4ea37idf00d5d685d523a7@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Sean DALY wrote: > Yes, I agree that it's a good idea to set the record straight. > However, there is an ugly truth: the wider the coverage of anything, > the more errors there are... responding to them turns into > whack-a-mole. > Heh. I think that an exaggeration, but it can turn into that when not done properly. > To combat that, what's necessary is to go beyond error-correction to > influencing perceptions widely. When perceptions are positive enough, > Fedora users will whack the moles themselves, and clueless > commentators will educate themselves or lose credibility. > > A key way to influence perceptions is to cultivate journalists. Nobody > likes to admit they made a mistake. Journalists get called clueless > and worse every day of the week, like everyone they generally accept > constructive criticism though. In this connection, Bob's comment was > exemplary: he politely set the record straight. > Bob's comment was exemplary, as were others. I'm not so quick to give this pair a pass on this one. In this case, you have ZDNet's Linux and Open Source bloggers -- a pair who SHOULD know that release cycles of the distros in question are roughly six months ("roughly" because OpenSUSE's is not exactly six; nine, I think, but that's close enough) -- writing something that, essentially, is false and worse, it's arguably slanted toward Microsoft. Again, these two writers are the LINUX AND OPEN SOURCE REPORTERS for ZDNet. If they don't know that the larger distros -- Ubuntu especially, with their x.04/x.10 naming convention -- have a six-month cycle, then they really have no business covering Linux and Open Source for one of the largest, if not the largest, Web-based tech news portal. > What I'm saying is, make changing perceptions part of the plan. > Although the media usually wish to present accurate information, what > they really want is accurate information which is also timely, > interesting, and topical. This is where press releases can play a > major role. Many journalists with 4 stories to file in the day will be > happy to quickly adapt a well-written release and put it up. Having been a newspaper editor for 32 years (which is what I do when I'm not promoting Fedora), you are right about the workload. More times than not, journalists appreciate being set straight when they're wrong, but more importantly they are immensely grateful for getting accurate and well-written information that they can glean (if not outright copy) for their stories. > When that > happens, you've made news, not reacted to it. Over time, awareness > rises within influencers, and next thing you know, most of them will > be able to write from memory that there are two Fedora releases per > year for example. Or whatever branding message you wish to spread - > that Fedora is high-quality, installs easily, etc. > This is true. But again, I would think anyone who had been covering Linux and Open Source for any length of time should know that release cycles for Ubuntu and Fedora have always been six months. > Journalists know that Windows 7 is make-or-break for Microsoft; just > look how MS is taking risks they haven't before such as selling PCs > for the first time ever and painting all their national websites > green. I hope. Again many reporters in the mainstream media are happy to be spoon-fed whatever Microsoft provides them, so we should be vigilant about this. The WinXP -> Win7 upgrade path is wipe and install... the same > as most WinXP -> GNU/Linux installs. So journalists know that now is > perhaps a better time than ever to talk about alternatives. When > Constantine launch time comes, perhaps a talking point to consider > beyond the great features is how upgrading to Fedora can be a better > choice than upgrading to Windows 7. That would be great. Is there anything on the drawing board? Larry Cafiero -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sdaly.be at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 11:37:06 2009 From: sdaly.be at gmail.com (Sean DALY) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:37:06 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears In-Reply-To: <7a0d56080910221727h14a4ea37idf00d5d685d523a7@mail.gmail.com> References: <16755209.118061256223804199.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> <7954253.118081256223863412.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> <7a0d56080910220821o473582a9h929e49943a025fdc@mail.gmail.com> <378b2b050910220925u29320786i8ff2f0bf2a18aed8@mail.gmail.com> <7a0d56080910221727h14a4ea37idf00d5d685d523a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <378b2b050910230437y68048d7aqe6285dacccc9966f@mail.gmail.com> thanks Larry for that to be clear, I do agree that the ZDNet piece was poorly written. Contrast with http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/10/22/win7_launch/ which from the same information provides more meaningful analysis... In my view, open source as a reporter's beat is past its prime. A few short years ago, many large IT shops needed explanations due to their dependence on the monoculture. I don't think that's the case anymore; FLOSS has found its place in most areas of computing (desktop OSes being a notable exception). After all, there is no "proprietary software" beat, but organization by vertical market or technical class. I myself am much more focused on the K-6 education vertical market, and tend to want to see things through that prism; pundits in that area compare FLOSS to proprietary all the time. For good coverage of FLOSS, ars technica has a well-deserved reputation, their analysis is based on actual reviews such as this one: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2009/10/ars-takes-a-first-look-under-the-hood-of-fedora-12.ars Sean On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 2:27 AM, Larry Cafiero wrote: > On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Sean DALY wrote: >> >> Yes, I agree that it's a good idea to set the record straight. >> However, there is an ugly truth: the wider the coverage of anything, >> the more errors there are... responding to them turns into >> whack-a-mole. > > Heh. I think that an exaggeration, but it can turn into that when not done > properly. > >> >> To combat that, what's necessary is to go beyond error-correction to >> influencing perceptions widely. When perceptions are positive enough, >> Fedora users will whack the moles themselves, and clueless >> commentators will educate themselves or lose credibility. >> >> A key way to influence perceptions is to cultivate journalists. Nobody >> likes to admit they made a mistake. Journalists get called clueless >> and worse every day of the week, like everyone they generally accept >> constructive criticism though. In this connection, Bob's comment was >> exemplary: he politely set the record straight. > > Bob's comment was exemplary, as were others. I'm not so quick to give this > pair a pass on this one. In this case, you have ZDNet's Linux and Open > Source bloggers -- a pair who SHOULD know that release cycles of the distros > in question are roughly six months ("roughly" because OpenSUSE's is not > exactly six; nine, I think, but that's close enough) -- writing something > that, essentially, is false and worse, it's arguably slanted toward > Microsoft. > > Again, these two writers are the LINUX AND OPEN > SOURCE REPORTERS for ZDNet. If they don't know > that the larger distros -- Ubuntu especially, with their x.04/x.10 naming > convention -- have a six-month cycle, then they really have no business > covering Linux and Open Source for one of the largest, if not the largest, > Web-based tech news portal. > >> >> What I'm saying is, make changing perceptions part of the plan. >> Although the media usually wish to present accurate information, what >> they really want is accurate information which is also timely, >> interesting, and topical. This is where press releases can play a >> major role. Many journalists with 4 stories to file in the day will be >> happy to quickly adapt a well-written release and put it up. > > Having been a newspaper editor for 32 years (which is what I do when I'm not > promoting Fedora), you are right about the workload. More times than not, > journalists appreciate being set straight when they're wrong, but more > importantly they are immensely grateful for getting accurate and > well-written information that they can glean (if not outright copy) for > their stories. > >> >> When that >> happens, you've made news, not reacted to it. Over time, awareness >> rises within influencers, and next thing you know, most of them will >> be able to write from memory that there are two Fedora releases per >> year for example. Or whatever branding message you wish to spread - >> that Fedora is high-quality, installs easily, etc. > > This is true. But again, I would think anyone who had been covering Linux > and Open Source for any length of time should know that release cycles for > Ubuntu and Fedora have always been six months. > >> >> Journalists know that Windows 7 is make-or-break for Microsoft; just >> look how MS is taking risks they haven't before such as selling PCs >> for the first time ever and painting all their national websites >> green. > > I hope. Again many reporters in the mainstream media are happy to be > spoon-fed whatever Microsoft provides them, so we should be vigilant about > this. > >> The WinXP -> Win7 upgrade path is wipe and install... the same >> as most WinXP -> GNU/Linux installs. So journalists know that now is >> perhaps a better time than ever to talk about alternatives. When >> Constantine launch time comes, perhaps a talking point to consider >> beyond the great features is how upgrading to Fedora can be a better >> choice than upgrading to Windows 7. > > That would be great. Is there anything on the drawing board? > > Larry Cafiero > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From bob at fedoraunity.org Fri Oct 23 21:13:19 2009 From: bob at fedoraunity.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:13:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora Linux updates prepped as Win7 release nears In-Reply-To: <378b2b050910230437y68048d7aqe6285dacccc9966f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3037401.118121256332399008.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> ----- "Sean DALY" wrote: > thanks Larry for that > > to be clear, I do agree that the ZDNet piece was poorly written. > Contrast with > http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/10/22/win7_launch/ > which from the same information provides more meaningful analysis... > > In my view, open source as a reporter's beat is past its prime. A few > short years ago, many large IT shops needed explanations due to their > dependence on the monoculture. I don't think that's the case anymore; > FLOSS has found its place in most areas of computing (desktop OSes > being a notable exception). After all, there is no "proprietary > software" beat, but organization by vertical market or technical > class. I myself am much more focused on the K-6 education vertical > market, and tend to want to see things through that prism; pundits in > that area compare FLOSS to proprietary all the time. > > For good coverage of FLOSS, ars technica has a well-deserved > reputation, their analysis is based on actual reviews such as this > one: > http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2009/10/ars-takes-a-first-look-under-the-hood-of-fedora-12.ars > > Sean > /me makes no comment about Sean's top posting... -- Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Robert 'Bob' Jensen || Fedora Unity Founder | | bob at fedoraunity.org || http://fedoraunity.org/ | | http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/ | | http://blogs.fedoraunity.org/bobjensen | | http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Bob-Jensen/1332998420 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Oct 24 03:37:43 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:07:43 +0530 Subject: Feedback : A Few Of Fedora 12's Coming Features Message-ID: <4AE27687.9010009@fedoraproject.org> Hi, Thanks for the write up at http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/10/a_few_of_fedora.html;jsessionid=HBMFGL3XBQIP3QE1GHRSKH4ATMY32JVN Just a quick note, that Fedora Project has been doing a number of quick polish on the desktop that improves the user experience similar to "paper cuts" that we call "Fit and Finish" http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fit_and_Finish Also refer to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/F12Polish Other desktop related features in this release is explained at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop#F12_Features Looking forward to your review of Fedora 12. Feel free to get in touch if you have any questions. Thanks again. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 23:04:32 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:04:32 -0400 Subject: Polish done Tuesday? Message-ID: <20091025230432.GB19864@victoria.internal.frields.org> Hi Documenters and Marketeers, There are some late breaking but fairly minor changes happening that might affect screenshot making. If anyone is working on bits with screenshots or screencaps, we are trying to get those all finalized by Tuesday so that people will be able to install from Rawhide on Wednesday to take those shots and captures: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2009-October/msg00260.html Please stay tuned and I'll keep you guys informed of any news that might affect that date. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From mel at redhat.com Mon Oct 26 12:27:21 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 08:27:21 -0400 Subject: Polish done Tuesday? In-Reply-To: <20091025230432.GB19864@victoria.internal.frields.org> References: <20091025230432.GB19864@victoria.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <4AE595A9.60604@redhat.com> On 10/25/2009 07:04 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Hi Documenters and Marketeers, > > There are some late breaking but fairly minor changes happening that > might affect screenshot making. If anyone is working on bits with > screenshots or screencaps, we are trying to get those all finalized by > Tuesday so that people will be able to install from Rawhide on > Wednesday to take those shots and captures: > > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2009-October/msg00260.html > > Please stay tuned and I'll keep you guys informed of any news that > might affect that date. > Thanks for the heads-up, Paul - we'll make sure to schedule in the remaining deliverable sprints appropriately. As a reminder, the things we have left to do C: screenshots page A: one-page release notes with docs (done, needs screenshots/pics) B: briefing Ambassadors F: set up for monitoring PR/news from the release D: tour page E: NDN It sounds like this week we may want to set up D (except for screenshots) and perhaps do F as well. Note that I'm leaving feature profiles off that list because we have one done (Paul's), one in editing (mine), and one on the way (Robyn's), so those are being taken care of. --Mel From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 26 13:18:41 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:48:41 +0530 Subject: Open-Source ATI R600/700 3D Support In Fedora 12 Message-ID: <4AE5A1B1.4090906@fedoraproject.org> Hi http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=fedora_r600_3d&num=1 "Fedora 12 provides "out of the box" support for kernel mode-setting with ATI R600/700 series graphics hardware, but it does not provide 3D acceleration by default. However, Red Hat's X developers have made it very easy to enable this 3D support for the ATI Radeon HD 2000, 3000, and 4000 series hardware by just installing a special Mesa package from yum" Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 14:35:13 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:35:13 -0400 Subject: Polish done Tuesday? In-Reply-To: <4AE595A9.60604@redhat.com> References: <20091025230432.GB19864@victoria.internal.frields.org> <4AE595A9.60604@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20091026143513.GK21903@victoria.internal.frields.org> On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 08:27:21AM -0400, Mel Chua wrote: > On 10/25/2009 07:04 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > >Hi Documenters and Marketeers, > > > >There are some late breaking but fairly minor changes happening that > >might affect screenshot making. If anyone is working on bits with > >screenshots or screencaps, we are trying to get those all finalized by > >Tuesday so that people will be able to install from Rawhide on > >Wednesday to take those shots and captures: > > > >http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2009-October/msg00260.html > > > >Please stay tuned and I'll keep you guys informed of any news that > >might affect that date. > > > > Thanks for the heads-up, Paul - we'll make sure to schedule in the > remaining deliverable sprints appropriately. > > As a reminder, the things we have left to do > > C: screenshots page > A: one-page release notes with docs (done, needs screenshots/pics) > B: briefing Ambassadors > F: set up for monitoring PR/news from the release > D: tour page > E: NDN > > It sounds like this week we may want to set up D (except for > screenshots) and perhaps do F as well. > > Note that I'm leaving feature profiles off that list because we have > one done (Paul's), one in editing (mine), and one on the way > (Robyn's), so those are being taken care of. And in keeping with that topic, Red Hat has a press blog entry pointed to the first in-depth feature profile we developed here: http://press.redhat.com/2009/10/26/fedora-12-spotlight-feature-systemtap/ Feel free to point to it in blogs or other social media! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From mel at redhat.com Mon Oct 26 15:17:32 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 11:17:32 -0400 Subject: Discussion: messaging index Message-ID: <4AE5BD8C.9050202@redhat.com> The idea of a Fedora Messaging Index came up in conversation, and I thought the resulting email was one that should get forwarded out to this list. A messaging index is like an extended version of talking points - how do we explain these things, what points should we keep in mind to bring up, how do we respond to questions like X - it's not a script to read from, nor is it a THOU MUST CHECK THIS!!! imperative (we won't run rpmlint-presentation on your slides) but it's meant to be a helpful resource that's available for folks who're figuring out their "Spread Fedora!" plans, as both a framework as to what sorts of things one might think about, and as a library to grab snips on. --- ...this is something I'd like to think about at FUDCon, because I want to take the Tuesday immediately after FUDCon as our everyone-online-let's-plan-our-F13-work time (and use spare moments during hackfests to get folks thinking about this). My initial thoughts are that a messaging index might not be the right place to start out, since a messaging index should (afaict) be writing down the stuff you're already saying, and so first we need to figure out what the folks who are speaking are saying. I'm starting to think about a list of tools I think (but do not know for sure) would make life easier for The Next Marketing Lead, who should be A Marketer and should not also have to be An Engineer. I think that getting those tools up and running might be the best thing I can do while I'm standing in these shoes. (In addition to release deliverables, I mean.) FI has given us a taste of what an effort like this looks like, and how to get better at doing it. (I know I've learned a lot.) This is what I can think of and the order I would do them in. This list is probably missing things; it's just off the top of my head. 1. location for publishing materials, incl. FWN (Fedora Insight) 2. survey (Robyn is working with infrastructure to get limesurvey up so we can do marketing research) 3. event/presentation materials library (a place for people to publish and find their slides, share signage, etc - work with Design for this, possibly as part of a speaker registration/search thing like http://geekspeakr.org) 4. automagical "track what people have been writing about Fedora, and responses the community has made!" dashboard... I am not sure what this looks like, and wonder how Sean does it at Sugar Labs. (Google Alerts?) I wonder if there is an open source version we can hook up.) I think that once #3 is up and things start going on there, a messaging index will almost write itself; once the People Presenting About Fedora have a common place to share things, the things our presentations say in common (or should say in common) will quickly become apparent. --- Nothing super actionable or urgent now (though if someone wants to pick up this project and run with it, go for it!) but it's a conversation that was marketing-related and so it should get forwarded out to this list. ;) --Mel From sdaly.be at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 22:08:59 2009 From: sdaly.be at gmail.com (Sean DALY) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:08:59 +0100 Subject: Discussion: messaging index In-Reply-To: <4AE5BD8C.9050202@redhat.com> References: <4AE5BD8C.9050202@redhat.com> Message-ID: <378b2b050910261508i378d1edbs740c761d816edca7@mail.gmail.com> A few words about point 4, how I monitor news at Sugar Labs No automagical system - I prefer "very light" - just persistent monitoring with tools, and judicious sharing of interesting links to the SL marketing list; I try to tag list messages with searchable terms. When I need to find messages, I use keywords plus "site:sugarlabs.org" Google syntax And certainly not just me working, either - other marketing team members mail me or mail the list; most such caught articles are interesting. better to spend 30 seconds on a basic article (or false positive googled fake blog) than to miss an interesting article keywords are everything - asky myself how will people try to google you? "sugar labs" "sugar on a stick" "olpc" "one laptop per child" others? tools sites: * Google news alerts * Google blog alerts * Technorati blog searches * Smart news aggregator Newssift (http://www.newssift.com) * Smart news aggregator Daylife (http://www.daylife.com) * Lurking in forums where people discuss Sugar * Paying close attention to what commenters say under articles about OLPC and Sugar Labs * Occasionally, other exotic sources such as Media Cloud (http://www.mediacloud.org) If serious error in article, direct mail to journalist/blogger offering corrected information and how to contact; if no update or reply by journalist, sometimes comment under article, sometimes not - case-by-case basis No nitpicking over minor errors if angle/tone of article positive Any journalist/blogger writing about SL/OLPC added to PR mailing list I hope this is helpful Sean On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Mel Chua wrote: > The idea of a Fedora Messaging Index came up in conversation, and I thought > the resulting email was one that should get forwarded out to this list. > > A messaging index is like an extended version of talking points - how do we > explain these things, what points should we keep in mind to bring up, how do > we respond to questions like X - it's not a script to read from, nor is it a > THOU MUST CHECK THIS!!! imperative (we won't run rpmlint-presentation on > your slides) but it's meant to be a helpful resource that's available for > folks who're figuring out their "Spread Fedora!" plans, as both a framework > as to what sorts of things one might think about, and as a library to grab > snips on. > > --- > > ...this is something I'd like to think about at FUDCon, because I want to > take the Tuesday immediately after FUDCon as our > everyone-online-let's-plan-our-F13-work time (and use spare moments during > hackfests to get folks thinking about this). > > My initial thoughts are that a messaging index might not be the right place > to start out, since a messaging index should (afaict) be writing down the > stuff you're already saying, and so first we need to figure out what the > folks who are speaking are saying. > > I'm starting to think about a list of tools I think (but do not know for > sure) would make life easier for The Next Marketing Lead, who should be A > Marketer and should not also have to be An Engineer. I think that getting > those tools up and running might be the best thing I can do while I'm > standing in these shoes. (In addition to release deliverables, I mean.) FI > has given us a taste of what an effort like this looks like, and how to get > better at doing it. (I know I've learned a lot.) > > This is what I can think of and the order I would do them in. This list is > probably missing things; it's just off the top of my head. > > 1. location for publishing materials, incl. FWN (Fedora Insight) > 2. survey (Robyn is working with infrastructure to get limesurvey up so we > can do marketing research) > 3. event/presentation materials library (a place for people to publish and > find their slides, share signage, etc - work with Design for this, possibly > as part of a speaker registration/search thing like http://geekspeakr.org) > 4. automagical "track what people have been writing about Fedora, and > responses the community has made!" dashboard... I am not sure what this > looks like, and wonder how Sean does it at Sugar Labs. (Google Alerts?) I > wonder if there is an open source version we can hook up.) > > I think that once #3 is up and things start going on there, a messaging > index will almost write itself; once the People Presenting About Fedora have > a common place to share things, the things our presentations say in common > (or should say in common) will quickly become apparent. > > --- > > Nothing super actionable or urgent now (though if someone wants to pick up > this project and run with it, go for it!) but it's a conversation that was > marketing-related and so it should get forwarded out to this list. ;) > > --Mel > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > From mel at redhat.com Mon Oct 26 22:37:13 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:37:13 -0400 Subject: FUDCon FI hackfest: conversation transcript Message-ID: <4AE62499.3050303@redhat.com> Simon and I just had a good talk going over the FUDCon hackathon on zikula, and we thought we'd share the transcript to give everyone a heads-up on what's coming. --Mel 22:34:35 < zodbot> Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-mktg/2009-10-26/fedora-mktg.2009-10-26-21.50.html 22:34:35 < zodbot> Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-mktg/2009-10-26/fedora-mktg.2009-10-26-21.50.txt 22:34:35 < zodbot> Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-mktg/2009-10-26/fedora-mktg.2009-10-26-21.50.log.html From pcalarco at nd.edu Mon Oct 26 23:22:57 2009 From: pcalarco at nd.edu (Pascal Calarco) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:22:57 -0400 Subject: FUDCon FI hackfest: conversation transcript In-Reply-To: <4AE62499.3050303@redhat.com> References: <4AE62499.3050303@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AE62F51.1020106@nd.edu> Hi Mel -- Thanks for the update, sounds like this will be a productive FUDCon around Fedora Insight. Do you think its possible to add Xinha to the task list? It was recently added as an approved package (to rawhide, I suppose?) News team really needs this functionality for FWN on FI. See: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=528003 Many thanks to you and Simon! - pascal Mel Chua wrote: > Simon and I just had a good talk going over the FUDCon hackathon on > zikula, and we thought we'd share the transcript to give everyone a > heads-up on what's coming. > > --Mel > > 22:34:35 < zodbot> Minutes: > http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-mktg/2009-10-26/fedora-mktg.2009-10-26-21.50.html > 22:34:35 < zodbot> Minutes (text): > http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-mktg/2009-10-26/fedora-mktg.2009-10-26-21.50.txt > 22:34:35 < zodbot> Log: > http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-mktg/2009-10-26/fedora-mktg.2009-10-26-21.50.log.html > > From mel at redhat.com Tue Oct 27 00:00:09 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:00:09 -0700 Subject: Fedora Marketing weekly meeting, 20:00UTC #fedora-meeting Message-ID: <8105cb5f5add14ecc30894819270f99b@localhost.localdomain> Details and agenda at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings. See you folks there! --Mel PS: As a reminder - November 1st is Daylight Savings Time, so we will begin meeting at 21:00UTC starting next week. If you are in a place that observes Daylight Savings, the time won't change; if you are in a place that does not observe Daylight Savings, the time will move forward one hour. I will send out the new time in a reminder next Monday, too. From mel at redhat.com Tue Oct 27 18:40:08 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:40:08 -0400 Subject: No meeting today - but here's a worksprint if people want to get together Message-ID: <4AE73E88.6030606@redhat.com> Hey, everyone - sorry for the last minute notice, but I won't be able to make it for our meeting time today because Greg and I were scheduled in for something at RIT at the last minute (originally thought we'd have this time free). If someone wants to drive a meeting in my absence, the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight queue would be a good agenda to pass through real quick - or another good thing to do would be to worksprint on the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_tour, using https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_tour as a template/guide. I'll try to catch up on IRC and email and wikipages and such later tonight when we get out in Toronto. --Mel From poelstra at redhat.com Wed Oct 28 13:49:01 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:49:01 -0400 Subject: Upcoming schedule Message-ID: <4AE84BCD.9030901@redhat.com> Start End Name Wed 28-Oct Wed 04-Nov Update and freeze the screenshots page Wed 28-Oct Wed 04-Nov Update Fedora tour page Wed 04-Nov Wed 04-Nov Freeze Fedora tour page Wed 04-Nov Wed 11-Nov Brief news distribution network Wed 04-Nov Tue 15-Dec Monitor news sites to provide corrections & info Wed 11-Nov Wed 11-Nov F12 Project Wide Release Readiness Meeting From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 19:03:21 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:03:21 -0400 Subject: Interviews and podcasts, update In-Reply-To: <5d4d90c90910190754q22ad1a4bsd6f212fe25ce9e3b@mail.gmail.com> References: <5d4d90c90910190754q22ad1a4bsd6f212fe25ce9e3b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091028190321.GD11545@victoria.internal.frields.org> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 07:54:20AM -0700, Robyn Bergeron wrote: > On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Paul Frields wrote: > > We have several features slated for interview/podcast treatments: > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F12_in-depth_features > > > > I finished the editing of my podcast this past weekend. ?We are now at > > 4 weeks to release, so it would be good to see progress on the other > > ones as well. ?Can I help by getting a developer in touch with one or > > both of our other assignees? > > If you could ping Matthias Clasen for me, that would be awesome - I > may be in his spam bucket. Just for historical note, I did get Matthias and Robyn hooked up via email. Robyn, how's the interview coming at this point? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From mel at redhat.com Thu Oct 29 16:56:12 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:56:12 -0400 Subject: FUDCon FI hackfest: conversation transcript In-Reply-To: <4AE62F51.1020106@nd.edu> References: <4AE62499.3050303@redhat.com> <4AE62F51.1020106@nd.edu> Message-ID: <4AE9C92C.3020109@redhat.com> On 10/26/2009 07:22 PM, Pascal Calarco wrote: > Hi Mel -- > > Thanks for the update, sounds like this will be a productive FUDCon > around Fedora Insight. > > Do you think its possible to add Xinha to the task list? It was recently > added as an approved package (to rawhide, I suppose?) News team really > needs this functionality for FWN on FI. > > See: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=528003 Yes, xinha should *definitely* be on that list if it's not up by FUDCon. Simon, when you're writing up the sprint page, can you add xinha to the bullet points? Thanks! --Mel From mel at redhat.com Thu Oct 29 17:43:44 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:43:44 -0400 Subject: Discussion: messaging index In-Reply-To: <378b2b050910261508i378d1edbs740c761d816edca7@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AE5BD8C.9050202@redhat.com> <378b2b050910261508i378d1edbs740c761d816edca7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AE9D450.5090102@redhat.com> On 10/26/2009 06:08 PM, Sean DALY wrote: > A few words about point 4, how I monitor news at Sugar Labs > I hope this is helpful Incredibly helpful - thanks, Sean! It's always great to see how the experts do it. (Rahul, you're also amazing at keeping track of press and staying on top of lists and news - I'd love to learn how you manage to do it, too. And Larry, I'm guessing you have ideas for how to - and there are probably others on this list with good tips/tricks/ideas-to-share.) I've added a new https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Marketing_HOWTO using your email as a draft. It's in need of lots of cleanup, but it's a start. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_HOWTO_keep_track_of_Fedora_press (the wiki is crawling like molasses for me right now, but as soon as this edit saves, it'll be there.) --Mel From robyn.bergeron at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 22:54:25 2009 From: robyn.bergeron at gmail.com (Robyn Bergeron) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:54:25 -0700 Subject: Interviews and podcasts, update In-Reply-To: <20091028190321.GD11545@victoria.internal.frields.org> References: <5d4d90c90910190754q22ad1a4bsd6f212fe25ce9e3b@mail.gmail.com> <20091028190321.GD11545@victoria.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <5d4d90c90910291554q5fab897br574ecdd4812b2ce9@mail.gmail.com> He's getting back to me tomorrow with answers. I'll post the questions on the wiki that I sent him in email...as soon as it lets me (wiki seems unhappy today). On 10/28/09, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 07:54:20AM -0700, Robyn Bergeron wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Paul Frields wrote: >> > We have several features slated for interview/podcast treatments: >> > >> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F12_in-depth_features >> > >> > I finished the editing of my podcast this past weekend. ?We are now at >> > 4 weeks to release, so it would be good to see progress on the other >> > ones as well. ?Can I help by getting a developer in touch with one or >> > both of our other assignees? >> >> If you could ping Matthias Clasen for me, that would be awesome - I >> may be in his spam bucket. > > Just for historical note, I did get Matthias and Robyn hooked up via > email. Robyn, how's the interview coming at this point? > > > -- > Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- Sent from my mobile device From thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 06:35:29 2009 From: thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com (susmit shannigrahi) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:05:29 +0530 Subject: Extending membership map for other groups. Message-ID: Hi, The membership map, so far which was only for ambassadors group, can now easily be extended to any FAS group. Have a look here: https://fedoraproject.org/membership-map/index.html If you want map of a particular group, please let me know. Thanks. -- Regards, Susmit. ============================================= http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit ============================================= Sent from Calcutta, WB, India From thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 18:21:30 2009 From: thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com (susmit shannigrahi) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 23:51:30 +0530 Subject: Extending membership map for other groups. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, > If you want map of a particular group, please let me know. There is a bit of change in plan. :) Maps of *all* Fedora groups are now available here: http://publictest16.fedoraproject.org/membership-map/ This includes groups having at least ONE _visible_[1] contributor. Please check and let me know if it will be useful for anyone. After noticing the lack of responses, I am a bit uncertain about that. Also note, this is a test version. [1] A member is visible when he/she # Active # Has set Latitude/Longitude # Account info is not private. -- Regards, Susmit. ============================================= http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit ============================================= From jsimon at fedoraproject.org Sat Oct 31 23:02:36 2009 From: jsimon at fedoraproject.org (Joerg Simon) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 00:02:36 +0100 Subject: Extending membership map for other groups. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200911010002.41934.jsimon@fedoraproject.org> On Saturday 31 October 2009 19:21:30 susmit shannigrahi wrote: > There is a bit of change in plan. :) > Maps of *all* Fedora groups are now available here: > http://publictest16.fedoraproject.org/membership-map/ Susmit, this is great!!! -- Joerg (kital) Simon jsimon at fedoraproject.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon http://kitall.blogspot.com Key Fingerprint: 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 23:40:03 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul Frields) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 19:40:03 -0400 Subject: GA Announcement Work In-Reply-To: <4ADFF818.8070202@fedoraproject.org> References: <4ADFF818.8070202@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 2:13 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 10/22/2009 05:42 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: >> Can I get some volunteers to work on the GA Announcement? ?This needs >> to be complete by November 10. > > Go from here > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Announcement Thanks Rahul. I'll make sure a link to this announcement appears in Red Hat's official press release as well. Paul